S03.E06: Border Wall

[attica]

I liked the update on Brazil's impeachment folderol. As John suggested, I do find relief that it's not just us.

 

As for the wall, I feel like I got a clue as to Trump's appeal. It was the clip where he said "they say they're not paying for it? 10 feet higher!" That's just like someone's angry dad doubling the length of his teenager's grounding, because the kid dared to sass back. And I think there's a yooge segment of the population that just wants that kind of parental control and  everybody else to be obedient.

 

[peeayebee]

On Samantha Bee's show, she talked with a group of Trump supporters, and one of them was quoting Trump that Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Samantha told her that Mexico said it wouldn't pay, and the woman, very proudly, said, "And now it's 10 feet higher!" Like that was a big gotcha to Mexico. *roll eyes*

 

Anyway, this was such an outstanding ep. The complete analysis of what the wall would cost and how ineffective it would be was fantastic.

 

I also loved the graphics of a man's jacket sleeves with tiny baby hands sticking out of them.

 

I hope everyone goes to #DogGarland and votes. My choice is Millie. I wonder if we can voted multiple times. (Nope)

Edited March 21, 2016 by peeayebee

[attica]

The schnauzer all the way!

[cattykit]

Now I know what's wrong with America.  There are no cats on the Supreme Court. 

 

Isn't anyone, anyone who really remembers the Berlin Wall, created by the evil Soviet Empire, disturbed by the imagery of a wall to be generated by the US, purported proponents of freedom and liberty?  I know the waffle iron was meant to be silly, but really, for that kind of cost, think of all the actual good things that money could go for.  Of course, we don't actually have that money to spend.  No, we'd get to be taxed to pay for the stupid wall.  Penn and Teller did a segment about the wall on their old show and demonstrated just how easily someone could get over and/or through any stupid wall we might build. 

 

Every day Drumpf becomes more horrifyingly possible, and I'm not a liberal or a Democrat.  Or a Republican, either.  Who could be?  Asshole just tells the masses what they want to hear.  Speaking of Berlin, of course, someone else was good at that a few years ago, too.

[candall]

This whole SCOTUS debacle makes my blood boil.  I hope McConnell and the post-convention GOP look back at Garland and pray they get another chance to confirm him.  And then they don't.

[iMonrey]

John Oliver just handed the Clinton campaign a wealth of anti-Trump ads for the general election: a series of clips saying the wall will cost 4 billion, then 8 billion, then 10 billion, then 12 billion . . . and then Vicente Fox saying they're not paying for any fucking wall. LOL.

 

Then whatever Republican senator (Hatch?) saying the political atmosphere was too toxic to consider a Supreme Court nominee. These idiots think they'll get a Republican president and then things will get better. Let's see how that works out for them.

[ALenore]

The waffle iron idea would actually be better than the wall.  Palmer waffle irons are made in America, it would be a great boost to the economy.  Think of how many people the Palmer Manufacturing Company http://www.cpalmermfg.com/pages/About-Us.html would have to hire to make 300 million waffle irons.  Of course, I would think the company would give the government a discount for that large an order, so it would probably come a lot less than the wall.

Edited March 21, 2016 by ALenore

[attica]

I already have a Palmer. Could I get the cash instead, if I promise to spend it on waffle toppings?

[scarynikki12]

I like Biscuit for the Court and would happily take a waffle iron. The former is adorable and the latter gives me waffles! Win-win.

[alias1]

Now I know what's wrong with America.  There are no cats on the Supreme Court. 

 

Exactly!

[MrWhyt]

Now I know what's wrong with America.  There are no cats on the Supreme Court. 

 

I think the political atmosphere right now is too toxic to consider adding cats to the supreme court.

[Victor the Crab]

The rising costs to build that wall should be something the idiot Drumph supporters need to look at real long and hard. But they won't, because they think their hero can not only do that, but make a sovereign nation pay for it as well, because they are that dense in the head. Just like Mitch McConnell thinking he can stop any Democratic president from getting a SCOTUS appointee onto the bence because he can.

[Julia]

I vote for Mollie, partly because there's an uncanny resemblance, but partly because it would be a huge triumph for nontraditional casting.

 

Maybe a rope. Oh, the Donald.

[Traveller519]

Awesome work on breaking down the wall (heh). The problem, as John seems to recognize, is that to present all the logical issues with the Wall is that it takes 20 minutes of incredibly fast paced analysis in order to make sense of it. All the proponents of the Wall need to say is "We're going to build it, and Mexico will pay for it." And it's this nice little package of security wrapped up in fiscal planning. As soon as you start introducing the "How" aspects to all of this it becomes a lot bigger issue that people will tune out.

 

The key point to hammer home is why Mexico isn't going to pay for the Wall. And it's more than just the soundbite from Fox. I've heard the arguments that "We'll just cease trade with them if they don't" from people trying to rationalize this (not Trump himself, who as Jon pointed out is using the trade deficit). The ramifications on the US economy if that were the case would be astronomical. GM, Ford, and Dodge would all need to set up new plants elsewhere. Good for US jobs, bad for pricing. Wal-mart and other grocers would need to find new places to import vast quantities of produce from. Computer and electronics manufacturing will need to be routed elsewhere. And that doesn't even factor in the presumed 6 million American jobs dependent on Mexican investment and sale.

[Jamoche]

Now I know what's wrong with America.  There are no cats on the Supreme Court. 

 

Isn't anyone, anyone who really remembers the Berlin Wall, created by the evil Soviet Empire, disturbed by the imagery of a wall to be generated by the US, purported proponents of freedom and liberty?  

Kept flashing back to the Republican's sainted Reagan saying "tear down this wall!"

[Unusual Suspect]

I voted for Mollie, because Schnauzers are adorable. But I'd be happy with a Biscuit win, the pug's licking of his nose was endearing.

[jbrecken]

I used to think that maybe Drumpf's secret plan to have "Mexico" pay for the wall was to finance it through confiscated drug moneys.

[Kel Varnsen]

The one thing John forgot to mention about the wall is that you can't build a wall in the ocean or the gulf of Mexico, and as far as i know in Mexico they have access to boats.

[Brandi Maxxxx]

The one thing John forgot to mention about the wall is that you can't build a wall in the ocean or the gulf of Mexico, and as far as i know in Mexico they have access to boats.

Oh my god... Drumpf's going to start quoting Tony "Stop the Boats" Abbott, isn't he?

[dcalley]

Trump met with the editorial board of The Washington Post. I couldn't stomach the whole thing, but I did laugh at how much he talked about his hands. He cannot let it go. And so I laugh at all the stupid jokes LWT makes about his hands.

[Julia]

Trump met with the editorial board of The Washington Post. I couldn't stomach the whole thing, but I did laugh at how much he talked about his hands. He cannot let it go. And so I laugh at all the stupid jokes LWT makes about his hands.

Just, wow. That was word salad.

I'm also kind of fascinated by the fact that he doesn't appear to realize it, but the business-friendly climate that he thinks was such a terrific answer for rebuilding Detroit was Detroit's Mayor handing over mountains of unrecoverable incentives to businesses which lined his pockets in return. The reason all that yummy recovery goodness is over is that Kilpatrick was well and truly busted for a number of really nasty scandals which left Detroit more or less in receivership and Kilpatrick sentenced to almost 30 years in prison.

It concerns me that a man hoping to set our national urban recovery policy didn't notice any of that.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Julia

[Danny Franks]

The rising costs to build that wall should be something the idiot Drumph supporters need to look at real long and hard. But they won't, because they think their hero can not only do that, but make a sovereign nation pay for it as well, because they are that dense in the head. Just like Mitch McConnell thinking he can stop any Democratic president from getting a SCOTUS appointee onto the bence because he can.

 

The thing is, all the reports suggest that McConnell and his cronies don't believe Drumpf can win the general election. So they're settling in for a Clinton presidency and want to try to keep control of Congress to continue their policy of obstructionism. So does he think that they can stop another SCOTUS nomination for five years, until they somehow recover the White House? Or is he just so steeped in being intractable and useless that he's running on auto-pilot for this? Or maybe he finds the idea of a white woman, even the hated Hillary, nominating supreme court justice to be less revolting than a black man doing so?

 

Awesome work on breaking down the wall (heh). The problem, as John seems to recognize, is that to present all the logical issues with the Wall is that it takes 20 minutes of incredibly fast paced analysis in order to make sense of it. All the proponents of the Wall need to say is "We're going to build it, and Mexico will pay for it." And it's this nice little package of security wrapped up in fiscal planning. As soon as you start introducing the "How" aspects to all of this it becomes a lot bigger issue that people will tune out.

 

It shouldn't be that hard, because they should just have to ask, 'who's going to pay for building it?' 'who's going to pay for manning it?' 'who's going to pay for maintaining it?' And refuse to accept 'Mexico' as an answer, because it isn't one.

 

Unfortunately, the people arguing for the wall aren't playing with full decks, so can't be reasoned with. Hell, just tell Texas that if they want one they can build it themselves. See how that goes down with them.

 

Trump met with the editorial board of The Washington Post. I couldn't stomach the whole thing, but I did laugh at how much he talked about his hands. He cannot let it go. And so I laugh at all the stupid jokes LWT makes about his hands.

 

It's hilarious. He's asked about IS and flubs his response, he's asked about nuclear weapons and flubs his response, he's asked about policing and flubs his response (while obliquely suggesting that police oppression is the answer to all protest), he's asked about China and flubs his response. He's not asked about his hands, and bangs on about them for most of the interview. What a pathetic little manchild he is.

[tenativelyyours]

Or just "How is Mexico going to pay for it" since anyone who buys Drumpf's crap probably also buys into the idea that the trade deficit plus generational bigotry means Mexico is such a poor nation it could not afford even Drumpf's escalating cost.  And while the spit forms in the corners of their mouths as they try to figure that out you have time to throw in the well established "and who pays for the wall when in seven years it's maintenance exceeds cost to build it?"  I remember Rachel Maddow breaking that down and it was pathetic how much a burden it would become to just try to make the wall do what it was built for. 

 

I wonder how many think that once the wall is built it is done? 

 

Plus there is the irony that to do the job in the location under such conditions and in the time frame required, naturally it would mean a percentage of immigrant labor. 

 

And I wonder considering the loopholes in many of these states that are going so hard for natural gas who have plenty of immigrants working for them, how thrilled big business is with all the things Drumpf says.  I'm guessing most of them can do simple math so they probably figure nothing will come of his claims and bluster.  But some have to worry, not only if he wins, but what if he actually tries to go about getting this wall done in any way at all?   Just the rhetoric alone has to be giving ulcerrs to all the suits that have to face their Mexican associates as they ink multi-million deal after multi-million deal.  Because one reason that deficit exists is because so many of "U.S." companies are having their products made south of that border.

 

I would love John to take a look at Drumpf versus Louis Farage.  There is something almost rather eerie in similarity between the Drumpf and UKIP two years back.

[fastiller]

I would love John to take a look at Drumpf versus Louis Farage.  There is something almost rather eerie in similarity between the Drumpf and UKIP two years back.

You know, you're right.  Never did see it before now.

 

I voted for Winston.  Just 'cause.

[DeLurker]

Unfortunately, the people arguing for the wall aren't playing with full decks, so can't be reasoned with. Hell, just tell Texas that if they want one they can build it themselves. See how that goes down with them.

<SNIP>

What a pathetic little manchild he is.

Since Texas can secceed (sp?) from the union and still talk about doing it, I wouldn't want to pay for the wall there (and I live in Tx).  Heck, they got paranoid last year when Operation Jade Helm took place here - just in case Special Training Ops was going to implement martial law.

 

He is a little manchild - the hands prove it!

[Cherpumple]

Aside from the ludicrous assertion that Mexico would pay for the wall, the thing that struck me the most about this insane plan is how much of the border actually lies on private property, meaning that the federal government would need to forcibly take private land from thousands of individuals to erect the dumb thing. How on earth are small-government supporters ok with this? It seems like the very definition of big government abuse, and doesn't even take into account that it is far beyond the president's mandate to even order the building of such a wall. None of this makes any sense!

[Julia]

Aside from the ludicrous assertion that Mexico would pay for the wall, the thing that struck me the most about this insane plan is how much of the border actually lies on private property, meaning that the federal government would need to forcibly take private land from thousands of individuals to erect the dumb thing. How on earth are small-government supporters ok with this? It seems like the very definition of big government abuse, and doesn't even take into account that it is far beyond the president's mandate to even order the building of such a wall. None of this makes any sense!

 

Trump is more than comfortable with helpful government officials using eminent domain on his behalf. I think that would be the last thing that would stand in his way. And I don't know how much it would bother his supporters. If they're buying what he's selling, they're not exactly sinking under the weight of their principles, as long as their oxen aren't being gored.

[Jersey Guy 87]

Aside from the ludicrous assertion that Mexico would pay for the wall, the thing that struck me the most about this insane plan is how much of the border actually lies on private property, meaning that the federal government would need to forcibly take private land from thousands of individuals to erect the dumb thing. How on earth are small-government supporters ok with this? It seems like the very definition of big government abuse, and doesn't even take into account that it is far beyond the president's mandate to even order the building of such a wall. None of this makes any sense!

 

Your last sentence explains how Trump's supporters are okay with the government taking land - none of this makes any sense.  They like the wall because of the symbolism - we'll construct a big wall to keep all those foreigners out.  The practical implications have nothing to do with it, they love the idea of the wall so Trump is going to push that idea.  The fact that he can't give the same estimated cost any time he's asked, the fact that there's no plausible way to get the Mexican government to pay for it, the fact that they would have to take property away from people is irrelevant.  This wall goes to 11, you see, and that's just one louder.

[Cherpumple]

If they're buying what he's selling, they're not exactly sinking under the weight of their principles

This is gold- I may have to steal it!

[Lion]

Aside from the ludicrous assertion that Mexico would pay for the wall, the thing that struck me the most about this insane plan is how much of the border actually lies on private property, meaning that the federal government would need to forcibly take private land from thousands of individuals to erect the dumb thing. How on earth are small-government supporters ok with this? It seems like the very definition of big government abuse, and doesn't even take into account that it is far beyond the president's mandate to even order the building of such a wall. None of this makes any sense!

That's the thing, though.  Most people who say they are for small government - especially those GOP politicians - are for it in words only.  What they usually mean is that they don't want to be involved in those 'liberal' things like health, education, the environment and so on.  They want the biggest baddest government for security, surveillance, immigration, military and such.  Government that improves the lives of all, including those people don't like,is bad. But government that harms the lives of many, especially those people don't like, for a symbolic feeling of safety is good.  It's hard to make sense of it.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Lion

[Cherpumple]

Good points, Lion. How dare we try to bring logic and consistency to this debacle!

[Jamoche]

It's hilarious. He's asked about IS and flubs his response, he's asked about nuclear weapons and flubs his response, he's asked about policing and flubs his response (while obliquely suggesting that police oppression is the answer to all protest), he's asked about China and flubs his response.

My baby brother was a Junior Republican in high school and got to meet Reagan back when he was still president. He gets back and is telling me about it - after several loops of "we asked a question, he told a story" I asked if he ever *answered* any questions. No, but he told stories!

 

I really thought that was an unbeatable low point for a presidential-level politician. Sigh.

[Kel Varnsen]

So for that no man's land golf course how do you go there. Is there a gate in the fence guarded by homeland security? Do you have to show your passport to get in?

[WichitaStateShock]

So for that no man's land golf course how do you go there. Is there a gate in the fence guarded by homeland security? Do you have to show your passport to get in?

Random question, do you post on shockernet?

[Julia]

So for that no man's land golf course how do you go there. Is there a gate in the fence guarded by homeland security? Do you have to show your passport to get in?

 

I think a far more interesting question is why they took land from a private citizen at firesale prices when the actual border ran along that golf course. Robert Moses used to go through the center of neighborhoods and skirt golf courses too. I thought we were past that.

 

Although it doesn't surprise me much that we're back to it.

[zxy556575]

I think my favorite part was John mentioning that Obama and Clinton had both voted in favor of the Secure Border Fence Act, although they both later danced back when campaigning.

 

Clinton: "I think when both of us voted for this, we were voting for the possibility that where it was appropriate and made sense, it would be considered," said Clinton. "But as with so much, the Bush administration has gone off the deep end, and they are unfortunately coming up with a plan that I think is counterproductive."