S06.E14: Twice As Far

[natyxg]

I think it was mostly the Servicing the Plot trope.  Most characters die on this show in meaningless ways.

 

What bothered me the most about Denise's death was that she was given so much development before it happened. Usually people here get more screentime before they die, but in her case I thought it was actual development that happened through the season and culminated in this episode that was so Denise heavy. And it would have been different if she died as a direct consequence of her trying to change and toughen up, you know, that she tried and got herself in a situation she couldn't get out of so it was just a plot that ended badly, and it was sad. But she was just standing there talking and got an arrow to her head that wasn't even aimed at her. It felt like her entire arc this season was a fucking waste of my time and this whole show is a pointless joke.  I'm sure other people will tell me that  they do this this sort of thing all the time, but somehow it felt worse with her, to me. Because again, she was just standing there talking and it was all just about fucking Daryl, so they might as well not even tried to give her an arc.

[Ocean Chick]

The same thing happened with Axel.  He was standing there at the prison, telling Carol an amusing story and getting lots of development, when... WHAM.  His brains and blood were being sprayed all over Carol's face as The Gov shot him dead. 

[that one guy]

I only got around to watching this last night because I've been spending all my screen time streaming Daredevil, obviously. It was a damn shame to see Denise go, considering how many characters on this show are in dire need of mental health care. It only now occurs to me what a waste it was for Rick not to be seeing the shrink while they had one.

What bothered me the most about Denise's death was that she was given so much development before it happened. Usually people here get more screentime before they die, but in her case I thought it was actual development that happened through the season and culminated in this episode that was so Denise heavy. And it would have been different if she died as a direct consequence of her trying to change and toughen up, you know, that she tried and got herself in a situation she couldn't get out of so it was just a plot that ended badly, and it was sad. But she was just standing there talking and got an arrow to her head that wasn't even aimed at her.

 

The same thing happened with Axel.  He was standing there at the prison, telling Carol an amusing story and getting lots of development, when... WHAM.

 

 

Yep. I immediately thought of the scene with Axel. The first time it was shocking, but this time I was just . . . how did they not notice all those Saviors creeping up on them through the woods? The Governor took a long range shot with a high-powered rifle. The line about not even aiming for her with the crossbow was just so implausible. They tried to re-use the same trick for shock value, and it just didn't work as well the second time. I thought they'd kill her off, but this kind of wasted the moment.

 

This wasn't a great episode. Basically it was filler, so that the Big Moments can happen in the finale. That whole concept needs to go. The rest of TV should take a page from Game of Thrones and let the big events happen earlier in the run to allow the impact to be explored immediately.

 

I'm also disappointed that we've lost virtually every named character from Alexandria and are left with mostly near-extras and Deanna's dickish son. The show was better for having Alexandra Breckenridge and Merritt Wever on it. I appreciate the need to prune the cast to make room for inevitable new additions, but having the whole gang from last season survive while the newcomers come and go reduces dramatic tension.  

I haven't read the comics, but I hear this was Abraham's death there. I like Michael Cudlitz as well, but I think that would have been the better choice, since he doesn't really have a story arc anymore, other than domestic squabbles with Rosita and Eugene.

  The problem with the deaths this season is they have tended to short circuit stories and return us to the status quo - Jessie's development and Denise's relationship with Tara have led nowhere. Which I guess is a lot like real life, but the thing with fiction is that its supposed to focus on the important stories and skip the boring stuff. A "realistic" show would waste the first few minutes of every show with everyone waking up and brushing their teeth and using the toilet or whatever. When they search a town, you assume they clear 10 empty buildings looking for supplies, but that's boring, so you skip to the building with zombies in it. Similarly, you skip the relationships and developments that aren't going anywhere in favor of the ones with payoff. This episode highlights that too much happened off screen during the time jump (Carol and Tobin?) while we've been watching stuff that hasn't quite paid off. The big gap between half seasons didn't help much either - I don't actually remember much about Dwight other than how stupidly his friend?/wife?/girlfriend?/sister?/cousin? with diabetes died. Was his face burned before? Why don't I remember that? The gap between meeting him and having him show up again shouldn't have been four months. I only know it's the same guy because he still has Daryl's crossbow.

Edited March 22, 2016 by that one guy

[ShadowSixx]

Yep, unpopular opinion but she was indeed very reckless the entire trip. I wanted to slap her when she wandered off in the pharmacy. There was noise of a walker and she wanted to investigate even though she wouldn't have been able to defend herself. She's a grown woman who went to school to be a psychologist she should have enough common sense to realize that all of those meds were a huge find and VERY important and that they needed to collect them and get the hell out of there as quickly and QUIETLY as possible and she goes wandering off like a four year old and starts banging around making noise. I wanted them to leave her there after that.  Then after both Daryl and Rosita warn her not to bother with the car what does dumb Denise do.. opens the door putting herself and her friends in danger. One of them could have gotten bitten trying to save her. I realize she wanted to prove herself but she was incredibly selfish and stupid. I was sitting there wishing a walker would get her then bam she died. Sorry to say I wasn't the least bit upset. She wasn't a "real" doctor who practiced medicine before the apocalypse  she was just some woman who hastily read some medical books and became their doctor because everyone else had less training than she did. I'm sure it will be easy to find someone to replace her. 

 

Loved Eugene. Father Gabriel looked hot to me walking around with that gun like he owned it. Every since he shot one of Neegan's people I look at him totally differently. I would be upset at this point if he gets killed. Come back Carol!! You know Daryl is going to try to find you.  I really wish Sasha had turned Abe down and he was all alone. He deserved that after how Rosita treated him.  Sasha was in love with Bob not that long ago. How can she move on so quickly and with basically a guy who was someone else's man two days ago. He threw Rosita away like she was trash. he will do the same to Sasha when someone new catches his eye. He doesn't deserve to be happy. Rosita had his back since day one. (and still does) and he let her believe he was into her and cared for her then one day up and tossed her out. Have fun with Rosita's leftovers Sasha.  Feel bad for Daryl. Everyone he gets close to either gets killed or leaves him.

 

I agree a lot on the Denise thing, but as far as Sasha & Bob's relationship. We really don't know how much time has passed since Bob died because this show does jump in timelines when starting an episode. Sometimes weeks and months later. It could have been a couple of months after Bob's death. There's really no specific timeline on waiting until you go into another relationship. Sasha grieved enough for Bob & Tyreese by being very reckless and shutting herself off. Even though she can do better.

[mmecorday]

I am now thinking I was totally wrong about what Denise found in the back of the apothecary shop. I thought she had encountered a walker that had eaten her young child after she turned. But upon closer observation, I see now that the mother more than likely drowned the child in the sink to keep him from making noise and attracting walkers. Then the mother probably killed herself by overdosing on pills.

 

This show can be so damn depressing sometimes.

[CletusMusashi]

Has there been a huge Lesbian death culling on the show that I've missed?  I know Tara's other gf got it at the prison, along with the rest of their group.  I don't get why Denise dying is some big lesbian trope?  I mean really the last people that have died for awhile have been dudes, and not gay ones.  Sam, Ron, Pete, Reg, all of Negan's guys plus the three women.  Were they supposed to be lesbians or something?

There was also Axel.  Didn't he want to be lesbians with Carol?

[Lexxy]

Ugh, the one likable character they've added in a REALLY long time.  Good for her, though, finishing her thought after getting shot in the head. 

[Rosiejuliemom]

I agree a lot on the Denise thing, but as far as Sasha & Bob's relationship. We really don't know how much time has passed since Bob died because this show does jump in timelines when starting an episode. Sometimes weeks and months later. It could have been a couple of months after Bob's death. There's really no specific timeline on waiting until you go into another relationship. Sasha grieved enough for Bob & Tyreese by being very reckless and shutting herself off. Even though she can do better.

 

According to the timeline, it has been somewhere around four months since Bob died.

 

The timeline really puts into perspective everything the group has gone through in a very short period of time. The world was normal two years ago from their point of view...I completely understand Carol leaving now.

[CletusMusashi]

I'm still waiting to see a fat zombie. Sure, I suppose they would burn off fat when they move, but somehow the zombie population is much trimmer and slimmer on average than the actual American population.

Maybe all those completely intact-looking zombies that we always see walking around everywhere used to be much fatter before they got eaten.

[Rosiejuliemom]

Maybe all those completely intact-looking zombies that we always see walking around everywhere used to be much fatter before they got eaten.

 

There was that one that had a pot belly full of Lori.

[Nashville]

I am now thinking I was totally wrong about what Denise found in the back of the apothecary shop. I thought she had encountered a walker that had eaten her young child after she turned. But upon closer observation, I see now that the mother more than likely drowned the child in the sink to keep him from making noise and attracting walkers. Then the mother probably killed herself by overdosing on pills.

 

This show can be so damn depressing sometimes.

I think you were right the first time, else Denise would've been treated to a close encounter with a little blue zombie anklebiter (literally) when she entered the storeroom.

No baby body? Kid got et.

There was also Axel.  Didn't he want to be lesbians with Carol?

Priceless.

Ugh, the one likable character they've added in a REALLY long time.  Good for her, though, finishing her thought after getting shot in the head.

Some people just ALWAYS have to have the last word in a conversation, don't they...?

[Iguessnot]

I guess I don't understand what you are saying, here ^^^^ 

 

You seem to be saying that  Jessick was a forgone conclusion as an endgame pairing if not for her death which is why Richonne wouldn't have happened? Or am I misunderstanding you?  I don't think the writing was pointing to that OTHER than as a temporary relationship for Rick. I think the endgame has always been Richonne regardless of Jessie surviving or not.

I definitely don't mean the writers wanted Jessie as an endgame. Heck no.  I'm only speaking of Rick's motivations as a character.

[natyxg]

I think you were right the first time, else Denise would've been treated to a close encounter with a little blue zombie anklebiter (literally) when she entered the storeroom.

No baby body? Kid got et.

 

Yeah, wasn't there a little shoe in the sink (I imagine with a foot still inside)? I too understood that the mother became a zombie and ate the cute little boy from the photos, which is why Denise was so affected and crying when Rosita and Daryl came out of the store.

[mornnoch]

Sorry. Problems with quoting.

Edited March 22, 2016 by mornnoch

[Anela]

Eugene just changed the whole dynamic of the group.

 

CDB used to mean Camp Dinner Bell.  Now, its ..... you guessed it, and yes, its the same initials.

Dingle Berry?

[Ohwell]

The same thing happened with Axel.  He was standing there at the prison, telling Carol an amusing story and getting lots of development, when... WHAM.  His brains and blood were being sprayed all over Carol's face as The Gov shot him dead. 

Yeah, I got really upset about Axel.  I grieved more over him than I did Denise.

[ghoulina]

am now thinking I was totally wrong about what Denise found in the back of the apothecary shop. I thought she had encountered a walker that had eaten her young child after she turned. But upon closer observation, I see now that the mother more than likely drowned the child in the sink to keep him from making noise and attracting walkers. Then the mother probably killed herself by overdosing on pills.

 

 

This is what I think happened. It was the "hush, hush" all over the walls that did it for me. I think the mother was hiding out with her baby in there, and the baby wouldn't stop crying. She was terrified the crying would lead the zombies to her. So she drowned it while bathing it or something. But she could still hear it crying, went a little mad. So she offed herself. 

 

Yes, technically the baby should have then turned. But this show isn't known for their continuity. Remember the early highway scenes of dead people in the cars that hadn't turned? Or maybe mom hit the babies head while pushing it under. Who knows? But I definitely got the impression she drowned her child.

[that one guy]

Has there been a huge Lesbian death culling on the show that I've missed?  I know Tara's other gf got it at the prison, along with the rest of their group.  I don't get why Denise dying is some big lesbian trope?  I mean really the last people that have died for awhile have been dudes, and not gay ones.  Sam, Ron, Pete, Reg, all of Negan's guys plus the three women.  Were they supposed to be lesbians or something?

It's not really about this show. The internet is quite rightly pissed about the death of a character on "The 100," and the trite similarity of that death to numerous other incidents going back to Tara on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In that case they also killed off the most interesting central character on the show and left viewers with a conflict between insufferable jerks. Imagine if Rick had died and left Lori in charge on TWD, it's a lot like that. Seriously, I may stop watching "the 100" because I want everyone to die now. Slowly. (Ironically the behind the scenes reason for that death was that the actress is a series regular on Fear the Walking Dead and had to leave the other show when Fear was given a longer Season 2).

 

Denise dying right after Tara says "I love you" is the same trope that's been repeated again and again. Unfortunately it also happened two weeks after the previous brouhaha and fans are exasperated. It's true that most of the people TWD kills of are not lesbians, but many people hoped to see a successful lesbian relationship that did not end in violent death quite so quickly. Personally, I don't really think it's entirely fair to criticize TWD for representation issues (anymore) since the only 3 long term relationships left standing are a couple of gay men and two interracial couples. But it is true that for much of the history of television and film, indeed of fiction, when lesbian characters are introduced, at least one of them dies. 

[DearEvette]

Yep, unpopular opinion but she was indeed very reckless the entire trip. I wanted to slap her when she wandered off in the pharmacy.

 

Not unpopular with me.  I knew from the minute she insisted on going with Daryl and Rosita that she was going to die.  Actually I gave her 80-20 odds with Rosita possibly being the one who would bite it.  I was sad because I liked her, but as the episode went on, I just got more and more exasperated.  It was Plot service 101 where you could see every decision the character was making was to bring her to a point to kill her.  But on the character front I wanted to slap her too.  She just had to have that cooler?  Like what in the ever freaking hell could you imagine would be useful in that piss hot cooler in a closed up car with a desiccated zombie body?  Right then and there I was like, girl you deserve to be eaten!!

 

 

Denise dying right after Tara says "I love you" is the same trope that's been repeated again and again. Unfortunately it also happened two weeks after the previous brouhaha and fans are exasperated. It's true that most of the people TWD kills of are not lesbians, but many people hoped to see a successful lesbian relationship that did not end in violent death quite so quickly. Personally, I don't really think it's entirely fair to criticize TWD for representation issues (anymore) since the only 3 long term relationships left standing are a couple of gay men and two interracial couples. But it is true that for much of the history of television and film, indeed of fiction, when lesbian characters are introduced, at least one of them dies. 

 

Yeah, I can't blame people for being exasperated about TWD falling into the dead lesbian trope.  But to be fair, Denise's death kinda falls into every trope.  And to be fair, In TWD-land her death was practically a given even without being a lesbian.  They are nothing if not consistent in killing off recurring characters at speed.  They are basically red shirts, some just have a longer expiration date than others.  To be fair, TWD will kill off at least one main character each season.  But in some cases they simply make a recurring character a main character and then kill them off (Merle, Beth, Tyreese).  I think the timing is unfortunate more than anything because this came  so quickly in a more highly publicized lesbian death.

[mornnoch]

I think the mother and her baby were trapped inside the building. She couldn't outrun the walkers. They slowly starved to death and the baby cried all the time. All the "Hush, Hush's" on the wall. She drowned the baby in the deep fryer and starved to death hence the very rotten walker.

In my opinion Gimple originally planned killing Tara. But because of Alanna Masterson's pregnancy he had to change his plans.

[riverheightsnancy]

Yep, unpopular opinion but she was indeed very reckless the entire trip. I wanted to slap her when she wandered off in the pharmacy. There was noise of a walker and she wanted to investigate even though she wouldn't have been able to defend herself. She's a grown woman who went to school to be a psychologist she should have enough common sense to realize that all of those meds were a huge find and VERY important and that they needed to collect them and get the hell out of there as quickly and QUIETLY as possible and she goes wandering off like a four year old and starts banging around making noise... She wasn't a "real" doctor who practiced medicine before the apocalypse  she was just some woman who hastily read some medical books and became their doctor because everyone else had less training than she did. I'm sure it will be easy to find someone to replace her. 

 

Not to be an ass, but this got discussed ad nauseam when the character was first introduced. Denise was a psychiatrist. a "real" MD. Same training as all others in medical school but, a specialty in psychiatry, can prescribe meds, and had done a rotation on all medical floors, just like all the other MDs.

 

Licensed psychologists are also doctors, just a different kind. PhD tend to focus on research or clinical patients, & PsyD may focus on less ill people helping them to regain more normative behaviors, but those who have these degrees have earned the right to be called doctor, it is just a different kind. 

[natyxg]

She just had to have that cooler?  Like what in the ever freaking hell could you imagine would be useful in that piss hot cooler in a closed up car with a desiccated zombie body?  Right then and there I was like, girl you deserve to be eaten!!

 

It was not about the cooler. It was about finding Tara's favorite soda. She actually asked Daryl to keep an eye out for it some episodes back. Daryl and Rick meet Jesus when Daryl wants to stop in that gas station, I think it was, to see if he can find it. He does find it, but then during the whole Jesus thing the cans get punctured (I don't remember how), so that's that. Denise is shocked when she DOES find it in the cooler and when Rosita asks Denise like "did you just HAVE to have those sodas?" or something alone those lines, Denise says something like, "nope, just this one" and it was the same orange one that Daryl tried to get the other time.

 

I thought the whole deal with Denise this episode was that the world is scary now, but you have to LIVE in it anyway, and that includes taking risks. And anything is risky now, anyway, so you might as well insist on getting that soda that might make your girl smile because otherwise you will be stuck in a prison of fear and you won't be living anyway. I didn't think she was being stupid during the episode, to be honest.

[natyxg]

The soda thing:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bjhwrjVLQU

[Ohwell]

I'm sure Tara would have preferred a live Denise over a damn can of soda though.  

 

Denise just acted dumb IMO and I can't say I'll miss her one bit.  I'm just glad Darryl and Rosita didn't suffer because of her.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Ohwell

[natyxg]

I'm sure Tara would have preferred a live Denise over a damn can of soda though.  

 

Lol, of course. I just see her point and what they were trying to say with her.  And ultimately she just got killed standing around and talking, anyway so...

[diebartdie]

I am now thinking I was totally wrong about what Denise found in the back of the apothecary shop. I thought she had encountered a walker that had eaten her young child after she turned. But upon closer observation, I see now that the mother more than likely drowned the child in the sink to keep him from making noise and attracting walkers. Then the mother probably killed herself by overdosing on pills.

 

This show can be so damn depressing sometimes.

 

I have to watch the scene again because I didnt quite get the story....

Yeah, wasn't there a little shoe in the sink (I imagine with a foot still inside)? I too understood that the mother became a zombie and ate the cute little boy from the photos, which is why Denise was so affected and crying when Rosita and Daryl came out of the store.

 

I didnt get the impression she ate the toddler...

This is what I think happened. It was the "hush, hush" all over the walls that did it for me. I think the mother was hiding out with her baby in there, and the baby wouldn't stop crying. She was terrified the crying would lead the zombies to her. So she drowned it while bathing it or something. But she could still hear it crying, went a little mad. So she offed herself. 

 

Yes, technically the baby should have then turned. But this show isn't known for their continuity. Remember the early highway scenes of dead people in the cars that hadn't turned? Or maybe mom hit the babies head while pushing it under. Who knows? But I definitely got the impression she drowned her child.

 

I'm leaning towards this one....

I think the mother and her baby were trapped inside the building. She couldn't outrun the walkers. They slowly starved to death and the baby cried all the time. All the "Hush, Hush's" on the wall. She drowned the baby in the deep fryer and starved to death hence the very rotten walker.

In my opinion Gimple originally planned killing Tara. But because of Alanna Masterson's pregnancy he had to change his plans.

Well yes she was trapped, she had a cast on her leg, maybe she got infected and was dying? Yes the HUSH HUSH HUSH was because of teh toddler crying maybe due to starvation, hard to say, maybe just boredom but if you look OUTSIDE the apothecary you can see maybe 1/2 dozen dispatched walkers and dozens and dozens of hand prints where zeds or someone was trying to get inside the apothecary. Maybe the mom (broke leg in cast) and toddler (fussy, noisy kid) were stashed in the apothecary backroom by the more healthy partner who ran off to get supplies / help, got injured / bit on the way back, either encountered a small group of z's already there or some followed him/her back, the returning partner does their best to fight off the gathering walkers but succumbs one way or another and becomes one too. Eventually, all the standing walkers get distracted and wander away. So I get the OUTSIDE, I get that storry, im not clear on the sequence of events between mother and toddler. Wasnt her mouth all messed up? I have to watch it again!

[DearEvette]

It was not about the cooler. It was about finding Tara's favorite soda. She actually asked Daryl to keep an eye out for it some episodes back. Daryl and Rick meet Jesus when Daryl wants to stop in that gas station, I think it was, to see if he can find it. He does find it, but then during the whole Jesus thing the cans get punctured (I don't remember how), so that's that. Denise is shocked when she DOES find it in the cooler and when Rosita asks Denise like "did you just HAVE to have those sodas?" or something alone those lines, Denise says something like, "nope, just this one" and it was the same orange one that Daryl tried to get the other time.

 

I thought the whole deal with Denise this episode was that the world is scary now, but you have to LIVE in it anyway, and that includes taking risks. And anything is risky now, anyway, so you might as well insist on getting that soda that might make your girl smile because otherwise you will be stuck in a prison of fear and you won't be living anyway. I didn't think she was being stupid during the episode, to be honest.

 

Oh I remember the scene about the sodas.  Thought it was charming at the time.  But the way the cooler played out the soda thing only has resonance after the fact because she just so happened to find sodas in there .  If she hadn't actually found soda we wouldn't even be thinking about the call back because the scene didn't signal it.  She could have just as easily found moldy sandwiches in there.  You don't get the sense when she sees the cooler that sodas were on her mind at the time.  As she was walking along the tracks and glanced over and happened to see a cooler in the car.  She said "Hey, there's a cooler in there, it might be something useful."  Daryl and Rosita tell her no, let's go we got what we came for.    But of course she found that soda in just that way.  And it signals the call back scene.  She's gonna be dead in five minutes.  Makes it more poignant.

Edited March 23, 2016 by DearEvette

[wildeyed]

Love hurts

Yeah yeah

[natyxg]

Oh I remember the scene about the sodas.  Thought it was charming at the time.  But the way the cooler played out the soda thing only has resonance after the fact because she just so happened to find sodas in there .  If she hadn't actually found soda we wouldn't even be thinking about the call back because the scene didn't signal it.  She could have just as easily found moldy sandwiches in there.  You don't get the sense when she sees the cooler that sodas were on her mind at the time.  As she was walking along the tracks and glanced over and happened to see a cooler in the car.  She said "Hey, there's a cooler in there, it might be something useful."  Daryl and Rosita tell her no, let's go we got what we came for.    But of course she found that soda in just that way.  And it signals the call back scene.  She's gonna be dead in five minutes.  Makes it more poignant.

 

It's not like she saw a random bag and said "hey, maybe there's something there" and when they didn't listen she went for it and just happened to find the soda. That would have been a whole different scene. But it was a cooler. I thought about the Tara soda right away. Even though I didn't think far enough ahead to think about whether or not she would find it, right away I thought that was her motivation and the reason why she insisted and went for it herself when Daryl and Rosita ignored her. And then she found it and said "hot damn" like she couldn't believe it.

 

I thought it was all on purpose and it worked, for me.

Edited March 23, 2016 by natyxg

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Dingle Berry?

 

Close, though it'd actually be Dingle Berries ;) ,  but not quite.   

Edited March 23, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[blackwing]

Hate Eugene, and I don't care for Abraham and his unnatural red hair either. I blame Eugene in part for Denise's death. If he hadn't been an ass and chased of Abraham, maybe he wouldn't have gotten captured by that group.

Too bad about Denise, she had gotten likeable.

I echo the comments that the dick bite was unrealistic. Maybe if the guy had been wearing loose athletic shorts. But the guy was in jeans. Jeans are thick, and those weren't baggy. The minute Eugene but the guy should have used his hands and shoved Eugene away or clubbed him on the head.

Carol leaving.... meh. Just gives her another chance to come back.

[Pete Martell]

This wasn't a great episode. Basically it was filler, so that the Big Moments can happen in the finale. That whole concept needs to go. The rest of TV should take a page from Game of Thrones and let the big events happen earlier in the run to allow the impact to be explored immediately.

 

Given what a piss-poor job GoT did exploring said impact (to the point where I quit watching and won't go back), I hope they do a better job of it. I'm still amazed at how much D&D pissed away any momentum or quality by mid-season 4. 

 

I don't think Walking Dead has done as much of the stalling-until-finale stuff in recent seasons. This was the first episode of this back half where I felt like they slowed it down some. 

 

I do agree the death scene was a bit silly. I don't know who directed this episode, but the scene where she talked a lot and the aftermath with Dwight were a bit silly to me in general. It seemed like Eugene had a hold of Dwight's dick for so long I kept waiting to hear porn music. Then they got into the "everyone is shooting and everyone should be hit by now but no one is" fantasy land that the show manages to avoid in its best moments, but was impossible to do here when various characters were basically doing The Worm on railroad tracks.

I'm also disappointed that we've lost virtually every named character from Alexandria and are left with mostly near-extras and Deanna's dickish son. The show was better for having Alexandra Breckenridge and Merritt Wever on it. I appreciate the need to prune the cast to make room for inevitable new additions, but having the whole gang from last season survive while the newcomers come and go reduces dramatic tension.  

I haven't read the comics, but I hear this was Abraham's death there. I like Michael Cudlitz as well, but I think that would have been the better choice, since he doesn't really have a story arc anymore, other than domestic squabbles with Rosita and Eugene.

  The problem with the deaths this season is they have tended to short circuit stories and return us to the status quo - Jessie's development and Denise's relationship with Tara have led nowhere. 

 

One of the problems I've always had with Alexandria was that the character arcs felt recycled. We've seen Deanna before in Hershel (idealistic and waking up). We've seen Jessie before in Andrea and Carol (weak woman struggling toward realities of the new world), and in Lori (Rick's pretty princess fantasy). The characters who felt fresh to me were Aaron and Eric, and Eric is now not even an under-five. Spencer at least is a bit different for men on the show, and Denise was different too. I don't feel that her relationship with Tara went nowhere - I think it was mostly a nice, supporting story that helped show how the CDB-characters are coping with a new, more sedate (relatively) life, and it was a way to show an awkward person trying to cope with a tough world - but I do think cutting it short for more Daryl woobie face time was a waste. 

 

I still think

the main reason it wasn't Abraham is because they knew a lot of viewers wouldn't care, and Daryl wouldn't be as upset.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Pete Martell

[Bad Example]

I have a feeling that those involved with the show think that what happened with the Walker Mama and the little shoe was totally obvious.  

The rest of us... not so much.  I'd just figured Walker Mama had chowed down, but all the other theories here make sense, too.

[forum4idiots]

anybody else catch that booty shot of chris hardwick on talking dead, near the end of the show?  /drool.

[RustbeltWriter]

 

 The problem with the deaths this season is they have tended to short circuit stories and return us to the status quo - Jessie's development and Denise's relationship with Tara have led nowhere.

 

I completely agree. The show is trying to be too many things at once and failing. First, the showrunners want the show to be about how dangerous humans are in this apocalyptic setting so we get cannibals and bandits. The show also wants to be taken seriously as a drama so we get decent storylines and character growth. But then, the show has this need to remind us that no one is ever safe so they introduce and kill characters off quickly. The show also has a slavish devotion to the comic storylines that I don't understand. What these conflicting elements lead to is the situation with Denise. We got a good storyline where she has a relationship with Tara and we get to see Denise grow from someone too timid to act as a doctor to someone who embraced the role. She also started to accept the dangers of the world and grew more brave with each experience. That character development was short circuited because someone had to take an arrow to the head because that's what happened in the comics and "no one is ever safe". The showrunners clearly just measured the characters, decided that Denise was in that sweet spot of "not part of the main cast but developed enough for the audience to care" and she hit the jackpot. So sure, no one is safe but on the other hand, why should the audience invest time in characters who will just get a random arrow (or bullet, ~ See Axel) through the head?

Edited March 23, 2016 by RustbeltWriter

[Nashville]

I think the mother and her baby were trapped inside the building. She couldn't outrun the walkers. They slowly starved to death and the baby cried all the time. All the "Hush, Hush's" on the wall. She drowned the baby in the deep fryer and starved to death hence the very rotten walker.

Only one problem with that: the baby isn't in the room.

Drowned, smothered, whatever - first the baby will die, after which it will Un-die.

Then mommy will either put it down, or she... won't....

Either way Denise would have been treated with the sight of either a Crawler*, or a headspiked infant.

She (and we) saw neither. Just a baby shoe in a pool of blood - and last time I checked, drownings rarely result in blood pools.

And it's not like the baby could have simply crawled out of the room, zombified or otherwise; Denise (a full-grown adult) had to struggle to get in the door.

Hate to say it, but I think the truth is inescapable:

Someone ate the baby.

:>

* What else are you going to call a Walker who can't walk?

Edited March 23, 2016 by Nashville

[Bad Example]

* What else are you going to call a Walker who can't walk?

"Lizzie's Kids"?  

[Ocean Chick]

But was that a pool of blood?  Or just rancid water full of decomposed baby?  If mom killed the baby in a way that made sure the baby didn't reanimate (squashed head and then dumped in a sink full of water so she didn't have to look at it), then no Crawler and no baby body.  Or maybe that sludge was just all decomposed baby and there was no water in the sink to begin with.

 

Truth is, I don't think the writers put all that much thought in it to begin with.  They just wanted us - the audience - to know that something awful happened in that room.

[ghoulina]

I thought the whole deal with Denise this episode was that the world is scary now, but you have to LIVE in it anyway, and that includes taking risks. And anything is risky now, anyway, so you might as well insist on getting that soda that might make your girl smile because otherwise you will be stuck in a prison of fear and you won't be living anyway. I didn't think she was being stupid during the episode, to be honest.

 

I agree with you 100%! I did not see her as stupid in the episode either. She was trying to improve herself. Stupid would have been continuing to sit behind the walls, huddled in the infirmary, crying and eating her hair. Okay, exaggeration. But a lot of shit went down and she was panicking in the beginning. She realized she needed to face her fears and learn what she was capable of, so she'd have the confidence to live in this world. Remember Hershel's "Risk Your Life" speech? Even behind those walls you're not safe! Look at Mrs. Niedermeyer. So yea, might as well try and live a life that makes you proud and happy. I was proud of her in her final moments, I hope she was too. 

 

I'm sure Tara would have preferred a live Denise over a damn can of soda though.

 

Did the soda really get her killed, though? I don't really believe that Dwight and his crew just happened upon them as she was retrieving the soda. I bet they were probably watching/following them for awhile, and would have tried something even without the soda situation. 

[Raven1707]

It's unlikely that I'll catch up with the thread today, but I wanted to post the Nielsen ratings for this episode:

 

“The Walking Dead” held onto its spot at the top of the cable rankings Sunday, matching the previous week’s 6.0 in adults 18-49 (a season low in the same-day ratings). [12.696 million viewers]

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/03/22/sunday-cable-ratings-march-20-2016/

 

And here are the Live + Same Day ratings for Season 6 so far:

 

10-11-15 "First Time Again" 14.633 million viewers
10-18-15 "JSS" 12.183 million viewers
10-25-15 "Thank You" 13.143 million viewers
11-01-15 "Here's Not Here" 13.339 million viewers
11-08-15 "Now" 12.440 million viewers
11-15-15 "Always Accountable" 12.871 million viewers
11-22-15 "Heads Up" 13.224 million viewers
11-29-15 "Start to Finish" 13.981 million viewers

 

02-14-16 "No Way Out" 13.742 million viewers
02-21-16 "The Next World" 13.483 million viewers
02-28-16 "Knots Untie" 12.794 million viewers
03-06-16 "Not Tomorrow Yet" 12.816 million viewers
03-13-16 "The Same Boat" 12.350 million viewers
03-20-16 "Twice As Far" 12.696 million viewers

[morgankobi]

Love hurts

Yeah yeah

 

She loves you,

Yeah, yeah, yeah

[Iguessnot]

I agree with you 100%! I did not see her as stupid in the episode either. She was trying to improve herself. Stupid would have been continuing to sit behind the walls, huddled in the infirmary, crying and eating her hair. Okay, exaggeration. But a lot of shit went down and she was panicking in the beginning. She realized she needed to face her fears and learn what she was capable of, so she'd have the confidence to live in this world. Remember Hershel's "Risk Your Life" speech? Even behind those walls you're not safe! Look at Mrs. Niedermeyer. So yea, might as well try and live a life that makes you proud and happy. I was proud of her in her final moments, I hope she was too. 

 

 

 

 

Did the soda really get her killed, though? I don't really believe that Dwight and his crew just happened upon them as she was retrieving the soda. I bet they were probably watching/following them for awhile, and would have tried something even without the soda situation. 

Denise's intentions were good but the way she went about it was stupid. She knows she's a jittery scaredy cat yet she needlessly engaged in two dangerous situations without her protectors knowing what she was up to. Call dibs. Insist on getting the cooler, but allow them to have your back.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Iguessnot

[CletusMusashi]

I think the mother and her baby were trapped inside the building. She couldn't outrun the walkers. They slowly starved to death and the baby cried all the time. All the "Hush, Hush's" on the wall. She drowned the baby in the deep fryer and starved to death hence the very rotten walker.

In my opinion Gimple originally planned killing Tara. But because of Alanna Masterson's pregnancy he had to change his plans.

Because if the arrow went too low, it would bounce off of whatever she was holding in front of her belly?

[CletusMusashi]

Someone ate the baby.

Morgan's already built a dingo cage.

And, if I understand correctly, Abraham will feed it some kind of... berries?

[Captain Asshat]

Though, on another note, hahahaha Daryl and driving stick, hilarious :D, as an European who always had stick-cars I always find it too amusing when people have a hard time managing it :D

This is the part that's a bit unbelievable to me. Daryl can fix anything, and so far he's been able to drive and fix every vehicle. Every motorcycle he's ridden has a manual transmission. So I say this as someone who drives a stick, rides a motorcycle, and knows they're similar but different: He shouldn't have had issues to this extent, unless there was something wrong with the truck's clutch or transmission that made it hard to get it into each gear (which is what the grinding sounded like).

 

Yeah...I know...I can believe that the dead can walk the earth, flashlight batteries are eternal, and gas never goes bad just sitting in a tank for two years, but THIS is what I find ridiculous. :)

Edited March 24, 2016 by Captain Asshat

[ghoulina]

Denise's intentions were good but the way she went about it was stupid. She knows she's a jittery scaredy cat yet she needlessly engaged in two dangerous situations without her protectors knowing what she was up to. Call dibs. Insist on getting the cooler, but allow them to have your back.

 

I think that's the point, though. She didn't WANT to be protected. She needed to face those dangerous situations on her own, so she could STOP being a jittery scaredy cat. If she continued to let others rescue her, she'd never build up the confidence needed to handle herself. I think she wanted to improve herself, and I didn't have any problems with it. 

[Ohwell]

Yeah, she improved herself alright.

[Raven1707]

Daryl and Rick meet Jesus when Daryl wants to stop in that gas station, I think it was, to see if he can find it. He does find it, but then during the whole Jesus thing the cans get punctured (I don't remember how), so that's that.

 

After Rick & Daryl found the vending machine in the middle of the road, Daryl put the cans of Orange Crush in his backpack. Daryl was wearing the backpack when they found Jesus at the back of the stolen truck a short while later. During the fight, Jesus slammed Daryl into the side of the truck. At least one can was punctured; Daryl had an intact can in the cab of the truck when they drove off, leaving Jesus "bound" along the side of the road. Flash forward to the truck sinking in the pond/lake...no more Orange Crush.

 

 

Ouisch, on 21 Mar 2016 - 11:34 AM, said:

Where did Morgan get all those nicely symmetrical cinder blocks, enough to build a nice-sized prison cell?

 

Lennie James had those left over from his basement construction project during his stint on Jericho!  (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

[slf]

Did the soda really get her killed, though? I don't really believe that Dwight and his crew just happened upon them as she was retrieving the soda. I bet they were probably watching/following them for awhile, and would have tried something even without the soda situation. 

Yeah, there's no way they had just stumbled upon Daryl, Rosita, and Denise. They had clearly either been tracking them or had been staying near the tracks, perhaps thinking there might be more of CDB nearby. The decision to take the tracks on the way back is mostly likely what got her killed.

[thegreathoo]

Carol, left.

Why are they cleansing Carol? Could she be pregnant?

First she wounded the attacker instead of killing him, when Maggie and she got ambushed.

Then she let the captor off the hook.

Then, Carol's hands are clean, she did not shoot the captor, a walker killed her.

Why are they cleansing Carol?