The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[quarks]

Thanks for those!

Ok, that does look like two different contracts, but that said, signing contracts for talent representation/management and recording rights on the same date is....let's go with unusual. Usually you sign with talent representation/management first and then with the studio on a later date.

Although I suppose it's possible that these were contracts for different episodes/seasons - for instance, if they were signing contracts for a special wedding episode and for future episodes?

[Salacious Kitty]

25 minutes ago, quarks said:

Thanks for those!

Ok, that does look like two different contracts, but that said, signing contracts for talent representation/management and recording rights on the same date is....let's go with unusual. Usually you sign with talent representation/management first and then with the studio on a later date.

Although I suppose it's possible that these were contracts for different episodes/seasons - for instance, if they were signing contracts for a special wedding episode and for future episodes?

These were signed right before Jill's wedding.

[quarks]

58 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

These were signed right before Jill's wedding.

Just adding to the weirdness!

[merylinkid]

Weren't some of the kids that Michelle signed on behalf of also adults at the time?

 

Honestly the way it was signed could invalidate the whole thing (I think this is how Derrick won).   Just grabbing people as they came by and telling them to sign is not proper procedure.   Every adult had to have the opportunity to read it AND SEEK INDEPENDENT COUNSEL if they so chose.   Of course non of the Duggar kidults knew an attorney to talk to other than one of JB's buddies.   But an ethical attorney would tell them, I can't help you because of my relationship with your dad, here's the names of some other attorneys.  

The same goes with all the LLCs they sign.   The kidults should have independent counsel before signing all of those and Travis Story should ONLY be acting on behalf of JB.   Although I will bet they all signed conflict waivers.   Which they were not allowed to have explained by independent counsel.

 

(yes the attorney in me is screaming)

Edited July 17, 2023 by merylinkid

[Minivanessa]

46 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Weren't some of the kids that Michelle signed on behalf of also adults at the time?

I think they cleaned up that issue when those documents were signed in 2014. Jill said in SHP that JB and Michelle had signed documents/contracts listing kids as minors, after those kids had already turned 18, and "nobody had fixed that." Until 2014. 

49 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Honestly the way it was signed could invalidate the whole thing (I think this is how Derrick won).   Just grabbing people as they came by and telling them to sign is not proper procedure.   .   .   .

(yes the attorney in me is screaming)

I know! My inner lawyer wakes up from retirement and fusses when this situation comes to mind. It's a shoddy bullcrap way to handle a deal with a network for the appearance of your kids in a show for which each episode brings in THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

OTOH, it's textbook fundamentalist patriarchal procedure. Tell your subjects, aka the kids, what you think they need to know, and more importantly, TELL THEM WHAT TO DO, and receive instant obedience with no questions asked. And that includes signing legal documents with no disclosure of what they are.

Yes, I yelled. I intended to.

PSA: Just this week's reminder that JB Duggar is a POS.

That is all.

[quarks]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

Weren't some of the kids that Michelle signed on behalf of also adults at the time?

 

Honestly the way it was signed could invalidate the whole thing (I think this is how Derrick won).   Just grabbing people as they came by and telling them to sign is not proper procedure.   Every adult had to have the opportunity to read it AND SEEK INDEPENDENT COUNSEL if they so chose.   Of course non of the Duggar kidults knew an attorney to talk to other than one of JB's buddies.   But an ethical attorney would tell them, I can't help you because of my relationship with your dad, here's the names of some other attorneys.  

The same goes with all the LLCs they sign.   The kidults should have independent counsel before signing all of those and Travis Story should ONLY be acting on behalf of JB.   Although I will bet they all signed conflict waivers.   Which they were not allowed to have explained by independent counsel.

 

(yes the attorney in me is screaming)

 

Agreed with all of this except for one small thing: from what I'm seeing here, I don't think Travis Story should have been acting for any of them.

Arkansas presumably has entertainment attorneys who could have explained just why a combined talent management/production company is usually not a good idea, and why they all - including Jim Bob - should have had independent agency representation.

If they had, honestly, they might have avoided much of the legal mess with Jill.

[merylinkid]

If JB wants to use Travis Story for his entertainment stuff knowing Story does not specialize in entertainment law, that's his business.   He's make his decision as an adult.   But to not even let the kids know they have a choice to talk to someone who know what they hell they are doing is the problem.   And that includes that Michelle should have had independent counsel on behalf of the minor children.

[Minivanessa]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

If JB wants to use Travis Story for his entertainment stuff knowing Story does not specialize in entertainment law, that's his business.   He's make his decision as an adult.   But to not even let the kids know they have a choice to talk to someone who know what they hell they are doing is the problem.   And that includes that Michelle should have had independent counsel on behalf of the minor children.

I totally agree!

But of course, in the all-knowing opinion of Master of the Family and Umbrella of Authority JB Duggar? The kids did not have a choice. Kids having choices is not a thing in his worldview. Kids might choose to step out from under his umbrella of authority and he won't allow that - as he famously said in another context. 

Thank goodness that despite his religious delusions, the laws of our land recognize the legal autonomy of persons of legal age (18 in Arkansas), and also that minor children are entitled to protection from abusive exploitation and fraud. I agree with your comment above that Derick was probably able to succeed in pushing JB for Jill's payout (and I assume a bit for Derick who appeared in several episodes), because perhaps the contracts themselves were sketchy, and definitely the way the kids' signatures were obtained, was deceptive.

I enjoy imagining how the negotiations between Derick/Jill and JB went down. I think we heard that the Dillards hired a lawyer. Who no doubt read all the contract documents, heard how the signatures were obtained, and laid it all out in a demand letter to JB. Then JB would have totally lost his sh*t over the letter, and demanded that his lawyers shut Derick down (if not run him out of town or have him jailed, LOL). Whereupon JB's lawyers (Travis Story or someone else) would have read the letter and looked into the situation, and had to tell JB he was f*cked if all that went before a judge. And it could open a can of worms not just about the Dillards, but about all the other adult and minor kids involved in that fustercluck of JB's genius creation.

Of course, we don't know that's what happened. But if the Dillards did hire a lawyer, I think something like that probably did. We know that JB paid out and AFAIK no actual lawsuit was filed about the matter. 

ETA: I wonder if JB had lawyers other than Travis Story on his TLC deals. We know JB had Chad Gallagher on board as an advisor, and from the context of Jill's comments on SHP I think that was the case prior to 2015 so it might have gone back pretty far. If Gallagher was advising JB on PR/entertainment issues, he may have linked JB up with legal counsel who had more experience/expertise in that area than good old Travis. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Jeeves

[quarks]

58 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

ETA: I wonder if JB had lawyers other than Travis Story on his TLC deals. We know JB had Chad Gallagher on board as an advisor, and from the context of Jill's comments on SHP I think that was the case prior to 2015 so it might have gone back pretty far. If Gallagher was advising JB on PR/entertainment issues, he may have linked JB up with legal counsel who had more experience/expertise in that area than good old Travis. 

 

I'd like to think that any legal counsel with entertainment experience would not have signed off on this mess.

[merylinkid]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

 

I'd like to think that any legal counsel with entertainment experience would not have signed off on this mess.

Ehh there are bad lawyers in every specialty.    One might have done it just for $$$ or to be able to say the Duggars were clients.

[ginger90]

22 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

or to be able to say the Duggars were clients.

There’s a poor marketing choice.

[merylinkid]

In the right circles, it could be really good.   Look how big their show was.   Can you imagine saying "yeah I negotiated their contracts?"   In Hollywood that's gold.   In fundie circles, he would be a King.

[quarks]

In her book, Jill Duggar apparently states that she and Derick estimated that Jim Bob earned a total of $8 million from TLC over the years. She seems to think this is a significant amount of money, which, to be fair, compared to what she ended up earning, it is.

By TLC and Hollywood standards, less so. It's about $26,000 per episode. Yes, granted, industry rumor at the time was that they took a 40% to 60% fee cut for Counting On, but even considering that, that means they probably got a one time filming fee, lifetime exclusive, for $30,000 to $40,000 per episode for 19 Kids and Counting, and around $15,000 to $20,000 per episode for Counting On.

Which might sound great, until you realize that the fee probably should have been around $50,000 to $75,000 at least - even taking into account the low streaming income I mentioned in this thread. 

[GeeGolly]

If the $8 million figure is close to accurate JB&M made about $1 million a year, plus the perks of house cleaning, food, clothes (in the beginning) and trips. That is far more than JB would have made busting butt selling real estate and far more than the average American makes in a year. So even if they were lowballed the Duggar family made out pretty good.

[quarks]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

If the $8 million figure is close to accurate JB&M made about $1 million a year, plus the perks of house cleaning, food, clothes (in the beginning) and trips. That is far more than JB would have made busting butt selling real estate and far more than the average American makes in a year. So even if they were lowballed the Duggar family made out pretty good.

Oh, sure, but I'm not sure that the Duggars making more money than the average American makes in a year at all justifies Discovery taking advantage of them.

(However I am admittedly very anti-studio right now, so....this is absolutely a case where everyone's mileage may vary.)

[Minivanessa]

12 hours ago, quarks said:

By TLC and Hollywood standards, less so. It's about $26,000 per episode. Yes, granted, industry rumor at the time was that they took a 40% to 60% fee cut for Counting On, but even considering that, that means they probably got a one time filming fee, lifetime exclusive, for $30,000 to $40,000 per episode for 19 Kids and Counting, and around $15,000 to $20,000 per episode for Counting On.

Which might sound great, until you realize that the fee probably should have been around $50,000 to $75,000 at least - even taking into account the low streaming income I mentioned in this thread. 

Here's what the book said. I don't know how they did the math but they spilled the deets on Mad Family Inc.'s per episode fees:

Quote

We spent most of the morning studying the contract. Derick had to translate some of the legal language for me, but there was plenty in it that I didn’t need any help with.

Like part three, titled “Compensation.”

It stated that for each half hour episode, Mad Family Inc. would be paid $50,000, and for each one-hour episode $65,000, with the numbers rising to $58,000 and $73,000 if the show hit a fourth season.

Pops later determined somehow that each child would receive 3 percent on their tax return each year. However, even this was a phantom payment, seemingly just reported on paper for tax purposes with no apparent intention to actually pay out this amount. We would later be told that this previously reported income was an investment or inheritance that we could only have access to upon my parents’ death.

We did the numbers. Over the years there had been well over three hundred shows, for which we estimated that TLC had paid Mad Family Inc. over $8,000,000 total. Our wedding alone had netted well over $100,000 for Pops, and Israel’s birth had been the focus of two special episodes, earning Pops another six-figure sum. Yet when we’d asked him to cover our $10,000 deductible and out-of-pocket expenses from the hospital stay, he’d pushed back.

Over the years Pops had bought more and more properties, and his fleet of private aircraft now contained multiple airplanes, including one with ten seats. There was no denying that he was a generous man who had helped a lot of people, but it was also true that he’d grown rich off the show and had fought hard to keep that under wraps.

     -- Duggar, Jill. Counting the Cost (pp. 225-226). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition. 

I'm utterly unskilled at number crunching so I'll let others check their math. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Jeeves

[quarks]

Ok, those fees sound somewhat more reasonable, though if they received $50,000 for a half hour episode they should have been earning at least $80,000 for a full hour episode.

And honestly, this is all still at the low end; once Counting On proved that yes, people would still tune in post the first round of Josh scandals, they should have fought for a minimum six figure episode fee, and didn't.

 

[Absolom]

I don't think TLC has paid six figures per episode on a regular basis for any of their shows ever.  They used to pay $2500 plus the episode freebies for the first season.  It went up from there to $5K, etc with bonuses available for episodes that met certain audience metrics.  

[quarks]

14 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I don't think TLC has paid six figures per episode on a regular basis for any of their shows ever.  They used to pay $2500 plus the episode freebies for the first season.  It went up from there to $5K, etc with bonuses available for episodes that met certain audience metrics.  

Grossly exploiting a number of people by grossly underbidding/underpaying the talent fees.

[AstridM]

JB sent Jill this list of her “expenses” when she requested payment for her work on the show over the years. 😡😡😡

[quarks]

And to make this even worse, apparently that gently used $15,000 harp was paid for out of the money the girls received for kinda sorta working on Growing Up Duggar: It's All About Relationships. 

 

[AstridM]

Just now, quarks said:

And to make this even worse, apparently that gently used $15,000 harp was paid for out of the money the girls received for kinda sorta working on Growing Up Duggar: It's All About Relationships. 

 

I would’ve been devastated to receive something like this from my parents. Poor Jill. 

[Laura Holt]

What an absolutely appalling thing to send to your child.  Essentially charging them for being your kid.  

[Salacious Kitty]

2 minutes ago, Laura Holt said:

What an absolutely appalling thing to send to your child.  Essentially charging them for being your kid.  

And using that as a tax write off! Disgusting. 

JB is vile.

[AstridM]

2 minutes ago, Laura Holt said:

What an absolutely appalling thing to send to your child.  Essentially charging them for being your kid.  

Yep. And they aren’t even given the chance to move out at 18 like most kids . They were forced to remain at home and part of the show. 

[Laura Holt]

$3.00 a day for eating at home sounds about right for the quality of food I used to see being prepped and served.  Which makes me think Jill should be sending HIM a bill for all the unpaid childcare, cooking and cleaning she did growing up.

[AstridM]

1 minute ago, Laura Holt said:

$3.00 a day for eating at home sounds about right for the quality of food I used to see being prepped and served.  Which makes me think Jill should be sending HIM a bill for all the unpaid childcare, cooking and cleaning she did growing up.

For all the time she spent being a sister mom and raising JB’s kids. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by AstridM

[crazycatlady58]

I want to make sure I am understanding this,  Cheapskate  kept track of the money spent on Jill after she reached adulthood and then submitted that amount to the IRS as her income? Is thst legal? What chaps my hide is HE KEPT TRACK OF WHAT JILL, HIS DAUGHTER,ATE AT HIS TABLE and reported that as INCOME???? I have no words...just...no words. I do want to know if this is legal if any one knows..and if it is legal I do not think it is moral unless there was an agreement between Jill and Cheapskate. 

[mythoughtis]

JB stated on the show that the cars etc given to the girls  were gifts - given because he didn’t allow  them to work.   So he can’t deduct that on his taxes, nor can he now say she worked after all and  the cars were part of  her compensation.  Nor can he say theitems listed for over multiple years were compensation because he never gave her 1099s or W-2s for those years.   If they were gifts, they fell under the gift maximum  per year and the giver   pays the taxes if they go over the maximum not the receiver.  Unfortunately he can’t be audited now for this because it’s been several years. 
 

Plus he listed her as a dependent on his tax return some of those years meaning he was financially responsible for her needs. 

[Salacious Kitty]

5 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

JB stated on the show that the cars etc given to the girls  were gifts - given because he didn’t allow  them to work.   So he can’t deduct that on his taxes, nor can he now say she worked after all and  the cars were part of  her compensation.  Nor can he say theitems listed for over multiple years were compensation because he never gave her 1099s or W-2s for those years.   If they were gifts, they fell under the gift maximum  per year and the giver   pays the taxes if they go over the maximum not the receiver.  Unfortunately he can’t be audited now for this because it’s been several years. 
 

Plus he listed her as a dependent on his tax return some of those years meaning he was financially responsible for her needs. 

Maybe he was audited the year that the Dillards got that tax bill. We don't know what went on behind the scenes.

[CalicoKitty]

I wonder if JB's CPA will be questioned by anyone.  Or the other kids.  It sounds like there were questionable IRS forms filed.  This has the potential to get interesting.

[Salacious Kitty]

1 hour ago, CalicoKitty said:

I wonder if JB's CPA will be questioned by anyone.  Or the other kids.  It sounds like there were questionable IRS forms filed.  This has the potential to get interesting.

The CPA is as sleazy as JB. Who on earth would put those "deductions" on a tax return?

[satrunrose]

Okay, I'm even more curious about the kiddult finances now, particularly for Jessa, Anna and Jed!. The $80,000 payout makes sense for the way most of the crew has been living. It's not high on the hog, but it's a step better than you would expect given the combo of jobs they seem to do. On the other hand, Anna doesn't have any income coming in, Jessa is raising four, soon five, kids on a minister's salary for a very small church and Jed! has managed to rack up the expenses for a wedding, two babies and multiple expensive trips in less than two years. Does JB have an itemised bill like that for them?

Edited September 14, 2023 by satrunrose

[Ohiopirate02]

I'm thoroughly confused by the utilities section.  $600 a month is the discounted rate of Jill's portion???? And this was for the years she was living in the TTH if I'm reading it correctly.  A house with her parents and 17 other siblings.  I do not doubt JB and Michelle's electric bill was rather large, but not that large.  

[GeeGolly]

A lot of the items are 8 years. Is it safe to assume JB was calculating from Jill's 18th birthday? And 3 or 4 of those years included Derick? But then the $3 food expense for 12 years, WTF is that?

I asked this question in the J&D thread:

Is this what happened?

• The Dillards request money for medical expenses from JB
• JB says no
• The Dillards request back pay
• As revenge JB put Jill on his taxes as a subcontractor
• The Dillards say, Whoa, wait, whaaatt?!
• JB sends an 'invoice' and offers a payout of $20,000
• The Dillards eventually get $175,000

[AstridM]

13 hours ago, satrunrose said:

Okay, I'm even more curious about the kiddult finances now, particularly for Jessa, Anna and Jed!. The $80,000 payout makes sense for the way most of the crew has been living. It's not high on the hog, but it's a step better than you would expect given the combo of jobs they seem to do. On the other hand, Anna doesn't have any income coming in, Jessa is raising four, soon five, kids on a minister's salary for a very small church and Jed! has managed to rack up the expenses for a wedding, two babies and multiple expensive trips in less than two years. Does JB have an itemised bill like that for them?

Can you imagine Anna and the kids’ bills??? 😳

[Minivanessa]

I just commented about the finances over on the Jill and Derick topic. With numbers and some details.

tl;dr: the book provides some details establishing that JB's CPA filed returns showing Jill received income that she hadn't actually received. While we know some details - enough to tell Jill's story -  there are many more things that we don't know. BTW Jill says she believes the CPA didn't realize she was in the dark about those returns, and he was cooperative when they asked for copies, etc. I think  - but the book does not say ETA: the book gives clues - that JB's telling his CPA that Jill had received X amount of income each year (which she had not actually received) may have been his standard operating procedure for all the adult kids.

I'll add this: JB's nasty "invoice" was just one of things he did out of his rage at being questioned by Jilly Muffin and her hand-picked spouse. He pulled some really sh*t moves and that was just one. I think he really lost it in reaction to that challenge to his authority over his entire immediate world. And to his money. That "mind blown" emoji may never have been more appropriate to any situation than JB's at that time.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Jeeves

[ozziemom]

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

I just commented about the finances over on the Jill and Derick topic. With numbers and some details.

tl;dr: the book provides some details establishing that JB's CPA filed returns showing Jill received income that she hadn't actually received. While we know some details - enough to tell Jill's story -  there are many more things that we don't know. BTW Jill says she believes the CPA didn't realize she was in the dark about those returns, and he was cooperative when they asked for copies, etc. I think  - but the book does not say - that JB's telling his CPA that Jill had received X amount of income each year (which she had not actually received) may have been his standard operating procedure for all the adult kids.

I'll add this: JB's nasty "invoice" was just one of things he did out of his rage at being questioned by Jilly Muffin and her hand-picked spouse. He pulled some really sh*t moves and that was just one. I think he really lost it in reaction to that challenge to his authority over his entire immediate world. And to his money. That "mind blown" emoji may never have been more appropriate to any situation than JB's at that time.

The CPA has an obligation to provide copies etc to their client, which is Jill since it’s her tax return. No matter if Boob pays the accountant or provides the data to complete the tax return. I don’t think the CPA is innocent in all this, any CPA with a bit of common sense would know Boob was up to something. But clearly most of the blame should go to Boob, he is truly a piece of work.

[Minivanessa]

Just now, ozziemom said:

The CPA has an obligation to provide copies etc to their client, which is Jill since it’s her tax return. No matter if Boob pays the accountant or provides the data to complete the tax return. I don’t think the CPA is innocent in all this, any CPA with a bit of common sense would know Boob was up to something. But clearly most of the blame should go to Boob, he is truly a piece of work.

Good points. I wonder if JB is still that CPA's client, or if the CPA wised up and terminated that relationship.

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Good points. I wonder if JB is still that CPA's client, or if the CPA wised up and terminated that relationship.

Hopefully the CPA had more integrity than Boob (yes, I'm calling him that again. He's earned it). Can the CPA also be held liable for the fraud?

[MaryAnneSpier]

I can't imagine receiving a bill from my parents itemizing the cost of providing basic necessities of raising me. What any decent parent does is supply their children with food, water, shelter, and clothing. They didn't even pay for their kids to go to school and as others have said, Jill provided years of free labor to raise her parents' kids. Just when I think I cannot detest JB more, something new comes out that makes my jaw drop and my anger rise. 

[Meow Mix]

6 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Hopefully the CPA had more integrity than Boob (yes, I'm calling him that again. He's earned it). Can the CPA also be held liable for the fraud?

My mother is an accountant who specializes in tax preparation for individuals and corporations.  She took the CPA exam,  but hated working in a public accounting firm, so instead became and enrolled agent.  She has to take continuing ed to keep up her license and part of that is ethics.  She has refused to sign off on returns before because she feels that something is hinky, because she can lose her license if it is found that she knew something was off.

In this case, it's possible the CPA (if the person preparing was actually a CPA) took JB at his word.  I'm not sure if he genuinely thought Jill had been paid that he would face consequences for this.  It sounds like since he cooperated that he didn't realize anything was wrong.  Now if he continued knowing she wasn't getting paid, he could be criminally liable.

What amazes me in all of this is that JB knew Derick had a degree in accounting and still pulled this.  He is definitely not as smart as he thinks he is.

1 hour ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

I can't imagine receiving a bill from my parents itemizing the cost of providing basic necessities of raising me. What any decent parent does is supply their children with food, water, shelter, and clothing. They didn't even pay for their kids to go to school and as others have said, Jill provided years of free labor to raise her parents' kids. Just when I think I cannot detest JB more, something new comes out that makes my jaw drop and my anger rise. 

Jill is a lot less petty than I am because I would have been tempted to bill him right back for all the labor costs.  The childcare alone for something like 10-15 kids for so many years (including after she was married) would add up pretty quickly.

[realityfan26]

19 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

Jill is a lot less petty than I am because I would have been tempted to bill him right back for all the labor costs.  The childcare alone for something like 10-15 kids for so many years (including after she was married) would add up pretty quickly.

THIS!! Babysitters can make mega-bucks!

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, realityfan26 said:

THIS!! Babysitters can make mega-bucks!

Given that the girls "babysat" 24/7 for years that would be a lot of money.

[Meow Mix]

12 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Given that the girls "babysat" 24/7 for years that would be a lot of money.

Between the number of children and the hours worked it would really add up.  And that doesn't even include the other services Jill provided like housekeeping services and meal prep and service.  Not to mention PR services and reputation repair.

[sixlets]

6 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

Between the number of children and the hours worked it would really add up.  And that doesn't even include the other services Jill provided like housekeeping services and meal prep and service.  Not to mention PR services and reputation repair.

Don't forget the current going rate for hiring her as an electrician, plumber, and drywall person.  She might even be able to add mechanic if she checked the oil.

(I'm only joking.  The fact that Boob gave her that itemized list is disgusting and a dick move.  I hope as the months go on, another one of the kids realizes what has been going on and does something about it.  I live by one rule when it comes to being on a pedestal.  It will be a scary fall down and bound to smart when you finally stop.

 

[BetyBee]

The Leaving Eden podcast has a nice, long take on Jill Duggar's book today. Very interesting!

[Minivanessa]

10 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

I would think if JB was involved with possible tax fraud that would invalidate any NDAs.

 

10 hours ago, Notabug said:

Well, it certainly wouldn't prevent any of the kids from being interviewed by the IRS should the government pursue a tax fraud case against JB, An NDA cannot protect anyone from being interviewed about criminal activity and any kid who declined to answer the questions claiming there was an NDA in place would be told to tell the truth or risk going to jail.

Bringing this over from another topic here. 

It's standard practice in the TV biz to have cast and crew sign nondisclosure agreements concerning the show production, to avoid premature disclosure of show contents, and to protect other sensitive or confidential business information they are exposed to in the course of their participation in the show. Sometimes people sign separate NDAs, and in other situations it's handled via "confidentiality clauses" in their overall contract for the shows. Those are just different ways of getting the same result.

It makes sense. It's business. Even when it's a reality TV show about families. But, there are limits. Here's an intriguing article from three weeks ago, about another network - not TLC, but Bravo - taking a public stance on what is, and isn't protected by the NDAs its shows' cast and crew have signed: Reality TV Participants Can Break NDAs To Reveal “Unlawful Acts". Bravo issued this statement:

"Confidentiality clauses are standard practice in reality programming to prevent disclosure of storylines prior to air. They are not intended to prevent disclosure by cast and crew of unlawful acts in the workplace, and they have not been enforced in that manner. To be clear: any current or former cast or crew is free to discuss and disclose any allegedly unlawful acts in the workplace, such as harassment or discrimination, or any other conduct they have reason to believe is inappropriate. We are also working with our third-party production companies to remind all cast and crew that they are encouraged to report any such concerns through the channels made available by the production company so concerns can be promptly addressed."

Obviously that's not TLC and not applicable to any Duggar show. But I think it's significant, it's only common sense, and Bravo is getting out ahead of the issue. The article says lawsuits are "looming" over some Bravo show and clearly the network wants to show clean hands. Courts will not enforce NDAs to prevent disclosure of crimes, and the "MeToo" movement following the Weinstein criminal case, brought some of those issues to the fore. Here's an ACLU article from 2018 on NDAs and survivors of sexual assault or harassment: https://www.aclu.org/news/womens-rights/nondisclosure-agreement-silencing-you-sharing-your-me-too

And about Duggar family in-house NDAs. I have some thoughts. But my thoughts as I tried to explain them were hard to boil down into a concise comment here. Sorry, but this is as short as I could make it:

In Jill's book beginning at page 152, she says that in October 2016, JB offered the "older" kids a payment of $80,000 each. On the condition that they sign a contract with Mad Family Inc.,  and also an NDA that would be effective "for the rest of our lives." We don't know who signed - except we know Jill did not sign -  or what the NDAs say, except that as proposed they had a lifetime term. The kids didn't know in 2016 that over the years JB's CPA had filed tax returns for each of them reporting income from the show, and certainly JB had never paid that income to them.

I AM NOT A PRACTICING LAWYER AND THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. I'm saying that real loud for the people in the back.

Just based on the available facts, it occurs to me that any NDA signed by a Duggar under those circumstances in 2016, if attempted to be enforced, would be vulnerable to a defense that it was procedurally unconscionable, given the unequal bargaining power/position of the parties relative to each other and potential issues of coercion and deception. (The kids had no idea at that time that the IRS was told they had received income from the show.) There could also be challenges to those NDA on other grounds; we just don't know enough about them to have an informed discussion about that. Although the lifetime term raises my legal eyebrows pretty high; just saying.

Also, as mentioned above, NDAs make sense, and are legitimately used, in business. The situation as described in Jill's book about the show and the kids and the money, is an unholy mix of family and [show] business. I can see how incredibly seductive it would be for control freak JB to want to control people in his life with NDAs. I suspect he may have severely overreached in legal terms with any NDAS - but OTOH he has probably been successful in silencing most of his kids. I would be surprised if any Duggarling goes publicly against JB, or if JB files a lawsuit to enforce any of those NDAs. He has the lifetime indoctrination of his children working in his favor, and the NDAs are just a scare tactic to reinforce that and keep them all in line.

[CalicoKitty]

I think this was another way to show that he was in control over his kids.  Since (most) of his kids have had all free will and thought squelched, and were indoctrinated to do whatever Dad said, I can see several of the kids doing as told, especially with a monetary reward being offered.   A "life time" DNA wouldn't have made any difference to many, anyway.  With their insular life, who were they going to tell?  JB thought he had made a pretty safe bet.

 

 

 

 

 

[satrunrose]

I've always thought JB controls the kids/kidults through a mixture of money, appeals to protect the faaaaammmmily and a heaping helping of hellfire. Jill's book is just confirming that.