The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[StaceyNotStacie]

2 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

It was on the NBC Nightly News.  I saw all that matchy-matchy clothing and heard a neighbor describe the kids as “vampire pale”.  They posted pictures of a happy family doing happy family things.  Made me wonder what sort of secret hell these Fundy kids live in.

This is crazy. It’s like the Duggars meet Flowers in the Attic. I just can’t believe they got away with it for so long. I wonder if other fundy-like families are a bit nervous about this, feeling like they’re going to have to work extra hard to defend their lifestyles because of the scrutiny this family has caused to similar families. 

[awaken]

I saw this on the news and thought of this forum. Terrible. 

[EtheltoTillie]

It is now reported that a neighbor in their previous town saw the kids being marched around in the middle of the night. Why didn't he do something?

[kaleidoscope]

What happens to these children now?  Foster care?  The adults have no idea how to survive on their own.  If the children are split up, they lose the only thing they have.....each other.  The Duggars will see no correlation, will they?  Heartbreaking.

Edited January 17, 2018 by kaleidoscope

[SMama]

CPS looks at family first and keeping minors together. Thirteen is quite a task, but APS will be working with the “adult” offspring.  The paternal grandparents are a no since grandma is defending their indefensible actions. I was able to place five children in the same home, but in a Midwest state (from CA). Their culture forbids taking in children without the parents’ permission. The parents were so selfish they would not give the many local relatives permission. The five were divided in foster care. However, their school psychologist and other school personnel were really involved. They would get the kids together as often as possible.  It was well worth the relocation and subsequent adoption. This happened after the incarcerated parents were unable to reunify. The relatives in the Midwest were younger and did not give a flying fig about not having the parents’ blessings. It was a about the kids.

When a child under age three is placed in protective custody alone or part of a sibling group, they are all fast tracked. Meaning the parents have much less time to reunify. The parents incarceration was a blessing to them. There is allegedly a two year old child, this will help the minors.

Two of the mother’s siblings were on TV and seemed horrified by what happened to their nieces and nephews. Both CPS and APS will have time to look for placement. They are all hospitalized and it may be a long road for all, especially the adults. I pray relatives rally around the victims and the 13 can remain near each other. 

Sorry about the long rant. I have several friends working at the office dealing with this case and my heart goes out to them. Difficult case, and no matter what they do they will get ripped apart by the community and the media.

[Marshmallow Mollie]

@SMamaFASCINATING! Thanks so much for sharing. In a case such as this, do you think there is some sort of psychological trauma team? 

[Fuzzysox]

16 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

It was on the NBC Nightly News.  I saw all that matchy-matchy clothing and heard a neighbor describe the kids as “vampire pale”.  They posted pictures of a happy family doing happy family things.  Made me wonder what sort of secret hell these Fundy kids live in.

I pray that someone reports Jill so her kids can be free. Free to not be controlled by her nuttiness and that they can get as much food as they need.

**side not I think the news media said that the mother was married at 16. She has probably been brainwashed to the max by her older husband.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Fuzzysox

[zoomama]

because it is local, it is on the news all the day long.  i read in the paper that the fb page is now gone.  it just breaks my heart....especially for the older ones. i was looking at a picture and trying to guess the ages of the girls (they were in the front so easier to see). the oldest had to have been mid-twenties when it was taken...and yet they all looked like teens or less. i couldnt tell who was the older, except for obviously smaller sisters. i too thought of the duggars and the common themes of same clothes, same hair...how on God's green earth do people come back from such as this?

[EtheltoTillie]

31 minutes ago, Fuzzysox said:

I pray that someone reports Jill so her kids can be free. Free to not be controlled by her nuttiness and that they can get as much food as they need.

**side not I think the news media said that the mother was married at 16. She has probably been brainwashed to the max by her older husband.

Are you referring to Jill Duggar?  Is there some concern about abuse or starvation?  I know Derrick has been considered really crazy town lately, but I haven't seen anything like this. 

[doodlebug]

15 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Are you referring to Jill Duggar?  Is there some concern about abuse or starvation?  I know Derrick has been considered really crazy town lately, but I haven't seen anything like this. 

No, Jill Rodrigues, another fundie who has 12, going on 13 kids who look malnourished while she and her hubby are quite well-fed.  She often boasts about how the kids are fasting to pray for something or another and how the kids are constantly showering her with parties, gifts and attention while it is very clear that the kids themselves are deprived of many, if not most, of the simple things for themselves.  Her daughter was supposedly going to court some fundie dude and was thrilled beyond words that he gave her gum!  Same daughter just threw Jill a 'baby shower' for blessing #13 who isn't due until spring and the theme was "Pamper Mama" with most of the gifts being clothes and perfume and bedding for Jill.

Edited January 17, 2018 by doodlebug

[EtheltoTillie]

9 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

No, Jill Rodrigues, another fundie who has 12, going on 13 kids who look malnourished while she and her hubby are quite well-fed.  She often boasts about how the kids are fasting to pray for something or another and how the kids are constantly showering her with parties, gifts and attention while it is very clear that the kids themselves are deprived of many, if not most, of the simple things for themselves.  Her daughter was supposedly going to court some fundie dude and was thrilled beyond words that he gave her gum!  Same daughter just threw Jill a 'baby shower' for blessing #13 who isn't due until spring and the theme was "Pamper Mama" with most of the gifts being clothes and perfume and bedding for Jill.

Thanks.  I had heard of this family but was not closely acquainted with the details. 

[SMama]

@Marshmallow Mollie, based on previous experience I’m certain there’s a robust mental health team involved. I was a forensic interviewer, and actually observed in this county. Sadly they are not up to the podunk county where I worked.  Nevertheless as soon as they are individually able they will all be interviewed. My bet is the courageous 17 year old might be the first. There is a mental health professional who meets with every child after the interview. I also interviewed adults when there were developmental issues or the abuse was too severe. I would not be surprised if the adults are interviewed. Meaning not by police but by a social worker with law enforcement watching behind the glass. SWs tend to have a softer approach than LE.

There are also several reasons in the WIC code where reunification could be denied. Sadly, the only time I’ve seen it work is when the parent is responsible for the death of another child.

Cruelty is one of the reasons, but you’d be surprise how difficult it is to prove. I had a case of six children and one adult victims of Munchausen by Proxy. You’d think years of unnecessary surgeries, including indwelling devices, along with being locked in a room for 23 hours a day without a bathroom is definitely cruelty. NOPE, judge ordered reunification.

I pray this county, even if it is only because of the publicity, does the right thing and denies reunification. This case has given me some serious flashbacks. I’m also so proud of that 17 year old young lady. I hated when a reporter asked why didn’t they leave when there were several cars at the home. I wanted to throttle the moron. It’s appaling how many people do not get the psychology of abuse.

I will now get off my high horse, it will take a while. ?

[Marshmallow Mollie]

Stay on that high horse! Your expertise is insightful!

[SMama]

Thank you ☺️ 

[Marigold]

Love when posters share their own experiences. 

[Fuzzysox]

2 hours ago, GussieK said:

Thanks.  I had heard of this family but was not closely acquainted with the details. 

Lots of info in the Sweet Fellowship thread about Jill and her family.

[EtheltoTillie]

2 hours ago, SMama said:

@Marshmallow Mollie, based on previous experience I’m certain there’s a robust mental health team involved. I was a forensic interviewer, and actually observed in this county. Sadly they are not up to the podunk county where I worked.  Nevertheless as soon as they are individually able they will all be interviewed. My bet is the courageous 17 year old might be the first. There is a mental health professional who meets with every child after the interview. I also interviewed adults when there were developmental issues or the abuse was too severe. I would not be surprised if the adults are interviewed. Meaning not by police but by a social worker with law enforcement watching behind the glass. SWs tend to have a softer approach than LE.

There are also several reasons in the WIC code where reunification could be denied. Sadly, the only time I’ve seen it work is when the parent is responsible for the death of another child.

Cruelty is one of the reasons, but you’d be surprise how difficult it is to prove. I had a case of six children and one adult victims of Munchausen by Proxy. You’d think years of unnecessary surgeries, including indwelling devices, along with being locked in a room for 23 hours a day without a bathroom is definitely cruelty. NOPE, judge ordered reunification.

I pray this county, even if it is only because of the publicity, does the right thing and denies reunification. This case has given me some serious flashbacks. I’m also so proud of that 17 year old young lady. I hated when a reporter asked why didn’t they leave when there were several cars at the home. I wanted to throttle the moron. It’s appaling how many people do not get the psychology of abuse.

I will now get off my high horse, it will take a while. ?

Thank you for posting this.  I'm a disability rights lawyer, and I am familiar with many of these issues.  I wish I could go to battle for those kids.  I'm in NY, though.  I hope the public donates some money for them.  Remember things like the girl who fell in the well.  People donated a lot of money for her. 

[Temperance]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

No, Jill Rodrigues, another fundie who has 12, going on 13 kids who look malnourished while she and her hubby are quite well-fed.  She often boasts about how the kids are fasting to pray for something or another and how the kids are constantly showering her with parties, gifts and attention while it is very clear that the kids themselves are deprived of many, if not most, of the simple things for themselves.  Her daughter was supposedly going to court some fundie dude and was thrilled beyond words that he gave her gum!  Same daughter just threw Jill a 'baby shower' for blessing #13 who isn't due until spring and the theme was "Pamper Mama" with most of the gifts being clothes and perfume and bedding for Jill.

There were other gifts beyond the "gum" including a bag of hershey kisses, a cross, a gift basket that included the gum and chocolate, and a few other things I can't remember.   A large portion of the  shower gifts that people actually bought or brought them included baby items. Jill registered for perfume, bedding and a mixer. She got some of the bedding. I don't think anyone gave her perfume, (based on the there were no pictures and those items remained unfulfilled on the registry.)  Most of the other details seem to be accurate.  

Edited January 17, 2018 by Temperance

[Arwen Evenstar]

The other comparison to the Rodriguii to this family, was that the children were subjected to vow renewal ceremonies, notably The Spectacle in Seuss.  Neither parent looked like they’d missed too many meals.

[DangerousMinds]

How could they reunify with both parents in jail?

[Fuzzysox]

Totally off topic but once authorities are called in what do they look for in the home? An empty fridge, no beds, etc. I've always wanted to know.

[Marigold]

2 hours ago, GussieK said:

Thank you for posting this.  I'm a disability rights lawyer, and I am familiar with many of these issues.  I wish I could go to battle for those kids.  I'm in NY, though.  I hope the public donates some money for them.  Remember things like the girl who fell in the well.  People donated a lot of money for her. 

I work in NY and some of my cases use disabilities lawyers! small world! We might've crossed paths and didn't know it!

[Mollie]

6 hours ago, SMama said:

CPS looks at family first and keeping minors together. Thirteen is quite a task, but APS will be working with the “adult” offspring.  The paternal grandparents are a no since grandma is defending their indefensible actions. I was able to place five children in the same home, but in a Midwest state (from CA). Their culture forbids taking in children without the parents’ permission. The parents were so selfish they would not give the many local relatives permission. The five were divided in foster care. However, their school psychologist and other school personnel were really involved. They would get the kids together as often as possible.  It was well worth the relocation and subsequent adoption. This happened after the incarcerated parents were unable to reunify. The relatives in the Midwest were younger and did not give a flying fig about not having the parents’ blessings. It was a about the kids.

When a child under age three is placed in protective custody alone or part of a sibling group, they are all fast tracked. Meaning the parents have much less time to reunify. The parents incarceration was a blessing to them. There is allegedly a two year old child, this will help the minors.

Two of the mother’s siblings were on TV and seemed horrified by what happened to their nieces and nephews. Both CPS and APS will have time to look for placement. They are all hospitalized and it may be a long road for all, especially the adults. I pray relatives rally around the victims and the 13 can remain near each other. 

Sorry about the long rant. I have several friends working at the office dealing with this case and my heart goes out to them. Difficult case, and no matter what they do they will get ripped apart by the community and the media.

Malnutrition in childhood causes irreversible brain damage, including mental retardation.  Even the older children (one is 29) may never be able to be self-sufficient.  Those adult children probably don't know how to do laundry, cook food, go grocery shopping, clean house, etc.  They don't even understand basic hygiene. It's going to cost millions of dollars for the authorities to care for these 13 siblings.

This is just another tragic case of "homeschooling" being used to cover up child abuse and endangerment.  Homeschooling must be more closely monitored and supervised by local municipalities.  It is outrageous that no one ever did a home study of the children's education.

Sadly, the living conditions of the Duggar children were dreadful until TLC came along and bailed out the family and got them out of that tiny house where they didn't even have adequate hot water.  The Duggar kids, too, talked about hiding food and lack of food security.  There wasn't even room in that old house for the kids to have their own beds.  Many of the children had learning disabilities, including dyslexia, that were not adequately addressed by Michelle's homeschooling.

I hope that this recent case of the Turpin children will lead to legislation requiring homeschools to be more closely supervised. 

[SMama]

As stupid as it sounds I have had MANY cases with incarcerated parents, even one when the father killed the mother. By law you MUST offer services to the incarcerated parents until parental rights are terminated. It’s a process. 

In many cases the children have visits in jail if that is what the judge orders.  Before terminating parental rights we have to document every effort was made to reunify. If the court finds reasonable services were not provided, the clock starts all over again. That leaves the child in legal limbo for up to three years. 

I had to sit across a confessed murderer in jail awaiting trial. Alone with the hope he would not turn violent. I doubt we would have since he was a sniveling little coward. I took precautions such as never sitting down  and stood behind a chair. Two reasons, if he ever even made a move he would have had a chair to the head. But more important was the psychological effect. I am about five inches taller than the coward. Standing up made him feel even smaller. I know it’s petty but I enjoyed making him feel like the POS he is. It’s all I could do for that poor motherless child. I also requested no visits, not even through the glass. I’m grateful we were granted that request. Sometimes the judges can be real asses in the name of reasonable services. The child was adopted by a sibling , but it is not an immediate process. 

I doubt the Turpins will get visitation, there will be plenty of mental health professionals able to advocate  on their behalf.

Liike Mollie explained the adult children may never be able to function. The adult child in the Munchausen case went from the hospital to a care facility.

Edited January 18, 2018 by SMama

[GeeGolly]

From what I've read it sounds like the kids were fed and clothed well until a couple of years ago when the family filed for bankruptcy and abruptly moved. One cop was quoted saying how intelligent and well spoken the 17 year old hero was.

I'm getting the picture that these kids have been emotionally and religiously controlled since birth, but not necessarily starved until recently. I also read all their names begin with J!

They have a long road ahead of them, but the new path is much better than the old one.

Edited January 18, 2018 by GeeGolly

[SMama]

@GeeGolly, please tell me you are kidding about the J names. What is it with abusive assholes and J names (Willis family also)? 

I was listening to the radio but not continuously, had not heard about the names. SBaba is the first man in the world to have the common cold and is in “I’m going to die” mode.  I told him if he says it one more time I’ll grant his wish. I’m an accommodating helpmeet. ?

Edited January 18, 2018 by SMama

[EtheltoTillie]

If this were a more normal family, the older children could be guardians for the younger ones. But that would likely not work here. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

19 minutes ago, GussieK said:

If this were a more normal family, the older children could be guardians for the younger ones. But that would likely not work here. 

It’s hard to be a guardian when you’re handcuffed. The house looked like a nice house from the outside.  Never know what goes on inside.  Authorities reported a foul smell inside. Dad wasn’t as good at fixing the shitter as Jim Boob was. 

[queenanne]

3 hours ago, SMama said:

@GeeGolly, please tell me you are kidding about the J names. What is it with abusive assholes and J names (Willis family also)? 

I was listening to the radio but not continuously, had not heard about the names. SBaba is the first man in the world to have the common cold and is in “I’m going to die” mode.  I told him if he says it one more time I’ll grant his wish. I’m an accommodating helpmeet. ?

Somebody somewhere along the line, said the ‘J’ is for Jesus, which makes such vast amounts of retro sense I’m surprised no one has said it for or about the Duggars.  Unfortunately I can’t recall where I read it.

[Arwen Evenstar]

10 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Somebody somewhere along the line, said the ‘J’ is for Jesus, which makes such vast amounts of retro sense I’m surprised no one has said it for or about the Duggars.  Unfortunately I can’t recall where I read it.

Well, Jim Boob thinks he’s Jesus Christ, so there ya go!

[zoomama]

oh guys, i want to put this hear since we were talking about the 13 kids turpin family. i saw on the news tonight that, as i have said, they used to live in texas in a town REAL close to my kids ( i have driven thru that town numerous times). the news was interviewing people that took possession of the house that the turpins had repossessed from them, thus facilitating their move to cali. the new owners took photos of the condition of it. OMG!  the floors//carpets were full of huge dark stains (blood?feces? dunno) and the windows were broken and boarded from the inside. the insides of the interior doors had SCRATCH marks from fingernails among the filth smeared on them. i cant even believe what i saw. that makes the scenes from today of the authorities dressing in virtually hazmat suits to go into the house and look for evidence more understandable. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, zoomama said:

i cant even believe what i saw. that makes the scenes from today of the authorities dressing in virtually hazmat suits to go into the house and look for evidence more understandable. 

I can’t believe I didn’t chunder all over my tablet after reading this. That’s beyond gross.

Turpin is/was an engineer, and most engineers are taught about sanitation, either as part of their coursework or on the job safety training.  He makes/made 140K a year. One can live quite well in Texas in that, but I imagine it doesn’t go as far in California due to the higher cost of housing.  Most professionals don’t make near that much. He will definitely be unemployable after this case, as he faces loss of his professional license if he had one.  So sad for those kids.

if he’s a civil engineer, he’s got no excuse for not knowing his house isn’t a sewer, nor should anyone live like that.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Arwen Evenstar

[GeeGolly]

You don't need to be an engineer to know poop belongs in a toilet. :)

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

 

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

You don't need to be an engineer to know poop belongs in a toilet. :)

 

But when you are Headshit Supreme, particularly a highly educated one, there’s no excuse for that level of gross, unless you have serious mental health issues.

[tabloidlover]

8 hours ago, zoomama said:

oh guys, i want to put this hear since we were talking about the 13 kids turpin family. i saw on the news tonight that, as i have said, they used to live in texas in a town REAL close to my kids ( i have driven thru that town numerous times). the news was interviewing people that took possession of the house that the turpins had repossessed from them, thus facilitating their move to cali. the new owners took photos of the condition of it. OMG!  the floors//carpets were full of huge dark stains (blood?feces? dunno) and the windows were broken and boarded from the inside. the insides of the interior doors had SCRATCH marks from fingernails among the filth smeared on them. i cant even believe what i saw. that makes the scenes from today of the authorities dressing in virtually hazmat suits to go into the house and look for evidence more understandable. 

This is so depressing.  My heart breaks for those children.   I cannot even imagine the trauma they have survived.   Bless that 17 year old girl.   I'm hoping donations will pour in for them to help them over the next several years because it's gonna take time.

 

*Is it too much to ask that the parents be shackled with a very short chain to their bed?   As in, not even long enough to allow them to sleep in the cot?   And I hope they do without food too.   

Edited January 18, 2018 by tabloidlover
additional thought

[madpsych78]

5 minutes ago, tabloidlover said:

This is so depressing.  My heart breaks for those children.   I cannot even imagine the trauma they have survived.   Bless that 17 year old girl.   I'm hoping donations will pour in for them to help them over the next several years because it's gonna take time.

 

*Is it too much to ask that the parents be shackled with a very short chain to their bed?   As in, not even long enough to allow them to sleep in the cot?   And I hope they do without food too.   

I think that would be a very appropriate punishment for the parents. An eye for an eye...

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, SMama said:

@GeeGolly, please tell me you are kidding about the J names. What is it with abusive assholes and J names (Willis family also)? 

I was listening to the radio but not continuously, had not heard about the names. SBaba is the first man in the world to have the common cold and is in “I’m going to die” mode.  I told him if he says it one more time I’ll grant his wish. I’m an accommodating helpmeet. ?

J is for Jesus. 

I do not think that "suffer the little children to come unto me" means anything like what you think it means. 

[SMama]

Huh?

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

But when you are Headshit Supreme, particularly a highly educated one, there’s no excuse for that level of gross, unless you have serious mental health issues.

Well, it's possible that the father, never fully stable but close to it, really did flip out and lose it when he lost his last job. There's been speculation about that since the story seems to be that the family seemed okay although highly eccentric and somewhat culty when they were last regularly seen by family and acquaintances, five to six years ago.

But when the father lost his last job and they moved, he may have lost a lot of his mind, too. .... Maybe he'd set up a system of relatively benign control and "togetherness" and then when his income disappeared he completely lost it and could no longer tell rational measures from irrational when it came to "protecting" the kids from the un-Christian world we live in. That "protection" thing seems to come up a lot in connection with this family. 

And if he no longer had the means to care properly for the giant brood he'd produced when he was making a good salary, he might have just lost it, descended into confusion and deepened paranoia about the threats the world poses and started taking increasingly extreme measures to do what looked to him like "holding his family together." If you combine that with a really bad financial situation that he'd never faced before and didn't know how to handle, I think you could get something like he horror that's been found. 

8 minutes ago, SMama said:

Huh?

What? .... I quoted more than I meant to of your post. I was just commenting that J is probably the letter a lot of them go to because it stands for "Jesus" and then making a bad joke about them misunderstanding the KJB "suffer the children" line. In other words, NVM  ;  ) 

 

 

 

On another note -- 

A comment on not fleeing whatever situation you happen to be in: 

'Psychiatrists say that even in cases of extreme deprivation, it's common for feelings of helplessness or confusion to lead to staying in place despite opportunities to flee.

'"This happens all the time. The number of individuals who would immediately respond to an opportunity where they could get away is very small compared to the number of people who would have that paralysis and insecurity and confusion about what to do," said Dr. Bruce Perry, a psychiatrist and senior fellow at The ChildTrauma Academy in Houston.'

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/grandparents-reveal-details-about-13-siblings-starved-tortured-by-parents/

Edited January 18, 2018 by Churchhoney

[SMama]

Sorry @Churchhoney, not fully awake. ?

[Churchhoney]

9 minutes ago, SMama said:

Sorry @Churchhoney, not fully awake. ?

No problem, @SMama. Me neither!    ;   )

[Marshmallow Mollie]

Re: the abuse started 5-6 yrs ago when the dad last his job. For the children in their 20s, with one as old as 29, the malnutrition would have had to have started earlier in order to stunt their growth, right?

I don't know the answer. I have a morbid fascination with how abuse affects the body's development.

[SMama]

I would not call it morbid, it is simply a subject that fascinates you. I agree that if they fell apart in that time frame it does not explain the adult children’s condition. Or the 17 year old. The mother is a fertile myrtle if she was pregnant at 47. There’s a lot of speculation about that child. The last thing she needs is to find it on the internet later in life. They have all suffered too much.

[zoomama]

so this morning it was made clear that the photos of the house in texas were taken 20 years ago!  the new owners thought that dogs had been locked inside thus the damage. 20 years ago!!!  this is no new thing for them. 

Edited January 18, 2018 by zoomama
spelling counts for something....

[SMama]

Wow, according to the DA the children were planning their escape for two years. A sibling left with the 17 year old hero but became frightened and returned home. Poor kids.

Not throwing shade at the sibling, captivity damages the psyche. 

Edited January 18, 2018 by SMama

[zoomama]

smama, i just watched it to and frankly, it sounds MUCH worse than i had thought.  i bet anything that the baby is not the mothers but is one of the girls' baby.  i felt physically nauseous listening to that press conference. 

[Natalie68]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, it's possible that the father, never fully stable but close to it, really did flip out and lose it when he lost his last job. There's been speculation about that since the story seems to be that the family seemed okay although highly eccentric and somewhat culty when they were last regularly seen by family and acquaintances, five to six years ago.

But when the father lost his last job and they moved, he may have lost a lot of his mind, too. .... Maybe he'd set up a system of relatively benign control and "togetherness" and then when his income disappeared he completely lost it and could no longer tell rational measures from irrational when it came to "protecting" the kids from the un-Christian world we live in. That "protection" thing seems to come up a lot in connection with this family. 

And if he no longer had the means to care properly for the giant brood he'd produced when he was making a good salary, he might have just lost it, descended into confusion and deepened paranoia about the threats the world poses and started taking increasingly extreme measures to do what looked to him like "holding his family together." If you combine that with a really bad financial situation that he'd never faced before and didn't know how to handle, I think you could get something like he horror that's been found. 

What? .... I quoted more than I meant to of your post. I was just commenting that J is probably the letter a lot of them go to because it stands for "Jesus" and then making a bad joke about them misunderstanding the KJB "suffer the children" line. In other words, NVM  ;  ) 

 

 

 

On another note -- 

A comment on not fleeing whatever situation you happen to be in: 

'Psychiatrists say that even in cases of extreme deprivation, it's common for feelings of helplessness or confusion to lead to staying in place despite opportunities to flee.

'"This happens all the time. The number of individuals who would immediately respond to an opportunity where they could get away is very small compared to the number of people who would have that paralysis and insecurity and confusion about what to do," said Dr. Bruce Perry, a psychiatrist and senior fellow at The ChildTrauma Academy in Houston.'

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/grandparents-reveal-details-about-13-siblings-starved-tortured-by-parents/

I admit I have not been following this story because it makes me nearly violent.  I have seen what you are saying about these parents only really losing their shit in the last 5-6 years.  I wonder how that can be?  One of the 'kids' was 29 (5-6 years ago would have still been an adult)  and from what I am hearing they all looked REALLY young from being starved etc.  I think they have always been crazy as fuck, have always treated their kids this way and no one noticed before.  If what Zoomama is saying is true about their Texas house (of horrors) this has been going on a long ass time.  The paternal grandmother, who defended her son, should never be allowed contact with them again.  

[SMama]

I’m waiting for my doctor and since I forgot my earphones missed it. Got the info from SBaba, and I’m steeling myself to watch later. TWO YEARS planning, there was some serious supervision there. I’m very impressed with the children, they fought their way out as a team. 

To the 19, “You can do it.” Aging myself with that Olympic reference.

[Churchhoney]

10 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I admit I have not been following this story because it makes me nearly violent.  I have seen what you are saying about these parents only really losing their shit in the last 5-6 years.  I wonder how that can be?  One of the 'kids' was 29 (5-6 years ago would have still been an adult)  and from what I am hearing they all looked REALLY young from being starved etc.  I think they have always been crazy as fuck, have always treated their kids this way and no one noticed before.  If what Zoomama is saying is true about their Texas house (of horrors) this has been going on a long ass time.  The paternal grandmother, who defended her son, should never be allowed contact with them again.  

Well ,what I've seen suggests that they may have been Rodriguez-like or Duggars-before-TeeVee-like for many years. Which meant food shortages and psychological nuttiness and intense emotional control but no actual starvation, no chains, full bathroom privileges (for those who can stand in line long enough) and so on. But of course, as you say, that also may not be true. 

Still, look at the Rodriguezes and the Duggars even now -- The Rodriguezes look very young and very thin, but probably not exactly starved. And everybody talks about how the Duggar boys look both pre-teen and middle-aged as teenagers and 20-somethings. Jim Bob Duggar was in the legislature when his kids were living in quite extreme conditions -- tiny house, eating charity food left on the porch -- yet they were viewed as quite near normal. They even got a tv show out of it as role models. And now there are older kids living at home, going into arranged marriages, etc., and they're trapped. Just not with chains. It's not unusual at all for a 23-year-old, say, to be in that situation at the Duggars or Rodriguzes or Maxwells or many others. And there are a lot of other families living in that same gray area. 

But there's a fine line between that area and the total chaos they've just found in California. And these people may have been in the gray area and then slipped over it. A 20-something who never dreams of leaving home or going to school and who's felt minor food shortages and so on might pretty easily remain trapped and end up starving and chained if parents suddenly really lost it. That young person has already practiced being in an unnaturally confining situation, just not one that put him or her in mortal peril.  

I'm not saying this is what happened. I don't know either what happened. But I don't think it's out of the question that a line was crossed at some point that nobody saw coming. 

[Natalie68]

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

Well ,what I've seen suggests that they may have been Rodriguez-like or Duggars-before-TeeVee-like for many years. Which meant food shortages and psychological nuttiness and intense emotional control but no actual starvation, no chains, full bathroom privileges (for those who can stand in line long enough) and so on. But of course, as you say, that also may not be true. 

Still, look at the Rodriguezes and the Duggars even now -- The Rodriguezes look very young and very thin, but probably not exactly starved. And everybody talks about how the Duggar boys look both pre-teen and middle-aged as teenagers and 20-somethings. Jim Bob Duggar was in the legislature when his kids were living in quite extreme conditions -- tiny house, eating charity food left on the porch -- yet they were viewed as quite near normal. They even got a tv show out of it as role models. And now there are older kids living at home, going into arranged marriages, etc., and they're trapped. Just not with chains. It's not unusual at all for a 23-year-old, say, to be in that situation at the Duggars or Rodriguzes or Maxwells or many others. And there are a lot of other families living in that same gray area. 

But there's a fine line between that area and the total chaos they've just found in California. And these people may have been in the gray area and then slipped over it. A 20-something who never dreams of leaving home or going to school and who's felt minor food shortages and so on might pretty easily remain trapped and end up starving and chained if parents suddenly really lost it. That young person has already practiced being in an unnaturally confining situation, just not one that put him or her in mortal peril.  

I'm not saying this is what happened. I don't know either what happened. But I don't think it's out of the question that a line was crossed at some point that nobody saw coming. 

That def could be.  No one knows for sure.  I find it super sad and it tells me that homeschoolers need to have some standards with outsiders regularly checking on the kids.  The kids need someone looking out for them.  I do think most homeschoolers do not fall under this sort of nuttery but these 13 kids are forever changed because no one was really looking out for them.