S02.E04: Gloves Off

[PrincessSteel]

Glad I'm not the only one that didn't realize that was Krazy 8. He looked familiar but, I just couldn't place cause the actor looks younger.

Man I love this forum. It helps me out.

I recognized the voice before the face.

[ElderPrice]

Chuck was wearing a watch, very prominently, in the scene where he is sick on the couch. It seems like Jimmy noticed it and didn't mention it. Don't watches make him sick (in his own mind)? doesn't everyone have to remove their watch before Prince Chuck deigns to enter the room? What's up there? Is Chuck bullshitting/manipulating everyone? It does seem that he gets sick when Jimmy does something "bad".

[ShadowFacts]

Chuck was wearing a watch, very prominently, in the scene where he is sick on the couch. It seems like Jimmy noticed it and didn't mention it. Don't watches make him sick (in his own mind)? doesn't everyone have to remove their watch before Prince Chuck deigns to enter the room? What's up there? Is Chuck bullshitting/manipulating everyone? It does seem that he gets sick when Jimmy does something "bad".

 

It could be a watch without batteries, a wind-up. I imagine that's the only kind he would wear.  I don't think he knew Jimmy was coming to his house when he did, so it's unlikely that he staged the scene.  He says he gets worse after going out in the world, it takes more and more out of him.  I can buy that.  What I don't get is why he was wrapped in his foil blanket inside the house.  I thought that and his foil-lined suit that Jimmy fixed up for him were for the outside world.  Why would he need that protection inside of his house? 

[benteen]

I noticed the watch too and I agree, it must be wind-up.  That's the kind of watch I see Chuck wearing anyway.

[SoothingDave]

I don't think Kim was keeping quiet when she was being questioned by Howard because she was protecting Jimmy.  She was in a situation where there was nothing she could say that would improve her position.  

[teddysmom]

Wasn't Skinny Pete also in jail with Tuco? In Crazy Handful of Nothing, I thought he took Jesse to see him and that's when he beat the shit out of Jesse and then Walt went to get the money back and blew the place up.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Better Call Saul Teaches A Tough Lesson About Being Clear-Headed In Business
And Nacho gets to sit in on a master class in ends justifying means.

[Boilergal]

Jimmy was banging on the door for a while so I figured Chuck was getting himself into his most pathetic position so Jimmy wouldn't go after him about the Kim thing.

 

Watching BCS makes me want to have a BB marathon weekend.

[Captanne]

Oh, I love that idea.  Honestly, I dismissed the watch as a wind up.  Now that I've read some of the reactions here, I didn't notice that Jimmy took note of the watch and had forgotten that Chuck had ample time to look pathetic while Jimmy was pounding on the door.  I'm not a fan of Chuck's (although I am of the actor), but he really is starting to look like the scales are tipping toward passive/aggressive Jimmy-blocker and blatant asshole.

 

That's too bad, because I like complicated characters.

 

(I still return to my point earlier that we've been warned about Chuck's "allergy" by the ER doctor who said this is a deeply seated (seeded?) pathology and he is very, very mentally ill.  Jimmy chose not to commit him and to, effectively, ignore the doctor's comment.  So, actually, have we as viewers.  The doctor's comment has never been mentioned again on the show that I know of.)

[attica]

I noticed the watch too and I agree, it must be wind-up.  That's the kind of watch I see Chuck wearing anyway.

Here's the thing: the watch was always in the shot. It was always in a shaft of light, too, practically begging to be noticed. Its presence is therefore reasonably presumed to be significant. So yeah, it might be a wind-up, but why all the blocking and lighting care? I'm waiting to find out!

[RustbeltWriter]

Of course Tuco drives a cop magnet. The license plate could have read "DEALUH".

 

+10 points to everyone who said Mike must have some military experience. His familiarity with the M40 and references to the Vietnam war make for a pretty good confirmation.

Edited March 9, 2016 by RustbeltWriter

[Dev F]

Here's the thing: the watch was always in the shot. It was always in a shaft of light, too, practically begging to be noticed. Its presence is therefore reasonably presumed to be significant. So yeah, it might be a wind-up, but why all the blocking and lighting care? I'm waiting to find out!

 

I figured the point of the watch was to show that Chuck had gotten home and immediately curled up on the couch in agony, without even taking the time to change out of his work outfit.

[pricklypear]

I swear, this show could go on forever, and I would be fine with it. There are SO many interesting characters to explore. I am suddenly VERY curious in Krazy 8's story. How did he go from family furniture store worker to low-level drug dealer

to DEA snitch

? (Not sure if that last part needed tags, but just in case.) 

 

I noticed the watch, too, and the fact that we saw it so many times and so prominently makes me think it wasn't an accident. Stay tuned, I guess…

[peeayebee]

Jimmy was banging on the door for a while so I figured Chuck was getting himself into his most pathetic position so Jimmy wouldn't go after him about the Kim thing.

I thought that at first too, but by the end it looked genuine to me.

 

 

I listened to the 204 insider podcast today and was astounded to find out that Mike's injuries were 100% CGI, done after the fact. Apparently Jonathan Banks has a problem (an allergy? they really didn't specify) with spirit gum, which is typically used to attach facial appliances.

 

Wow, that's amazing. Well done.

[monagatuna]

I listened to the 204 insider podcast today and was astounded to find out that Mike's injuries were 100% CGI, done after the fact. Apparently Jonathan Banks has a problem (an allergy? they really didn't specify) with spirit gum, which is typically used to attach facial appliances.

 

That wouldn't surprise me. My facial skin is very sensitive to certain ingredients, and adhesives like spirit gum give me a terrible rash. I can wear eyelash glue on my eyelashes with no problem, but once I used it to attach a mustache to my face (playing Walter White, coincidentally), and had a mustache-shaped rash on my face for weeks. Hilariously, I had a job interview the following Monday when the rash was at its worst, and the interview was at a law firm not unlike Saul Goodman's.

[SoothingDave]

I do not believe Chuck was deliberately not answering the door and trying to look extra pathetic for Jimmy's sake.  I think he is truly "wiped out" by his days going to the office.

[RCharter]

Of course Tuco drives a cop magnet. The license plate could have read "DEALUH".

 

LMAO!!!!  I know right? 

[Blakeston]

It could be a watch without batteries, a wind-up. I imagine that's the only kind he would wear.  I don't think he knew Jimmy was coming to his house when he did, so it's unlikely that he staged the scene.  He says he gets worse after going out in the world, it takes more and more out of him.  I can buy that.  What I don't get is why he was wrapped in his foil blanket inside the house.  I thought that and his foil-lined suit that Jimmy fixed up for him were for the outside world.  Why would he need that protection inside of his house? 

 

We've seen Chuck use the space blanket in his house before.

 

While he seems to believe that he's safer from the world's electric currents inside his house than outside, he also appears to be afraid of them even when he's inside. There's a transformer near his house, which seems to be a constant source of anxiety for him.

 

I don't think Kim was keeping quiet when she was being questioned by Howard because she was protecting Jimmy.  She was in a situation where there was nothing she could say that would improve her position.  

 

She could have told them that Jimmy misled her, and gave her the impression that he'd already received permission to run the ad.

 

When Jimmy informed Chuck that he'd misled her, Chuck remarked that it would have helped her to bring that up when Hamlin was chewing her out. Jimmy explained that she probably didn't want to get him in further trouble.

[PrincessSteel]

Tuco: Nacho problem no more.

[Tatum]

Exactly. She knows what she is and she still decided to cover him and her career took a serious blow. She's choosing to jump down an unreliable rabbit hole knowing the risks.

I thought that too at first, but then again I'm not sure how much explaining that Jimmy told her that the board approved the commercial would have helped her. She and Howard did still recommend him to the law firm and it does kind of look bad- well WE won't take him, but he'd totally fit in YOUR wheelhouse, then he pulls something like this. Plus, Howard has punished Kim before for things beyond her control, like when the guy that was embezzling money last season declined the plea bargain she pulled together for him. I think once Howard got the angry phone call, Kim was already collateral damage.

I was surprised though she didn't break up with him. I'm sure that's coming. That really was a huge mistake recommending someone like Jimmy for a law firm with the corporate culture they seem to have.

Chuck really is a jerk this season. I can understand his sabotaging Jimmy's efforts to work at his law firm, and I can understand him raining on Jimmy's parade with regards to client solicitation, but he's wrong to punish Kim when he knows she's done nothing unethical or underhanded just because he's mad she helped Jimmy.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Tatum

[ghoulina]

I don't think he knew Jimmy was coming to his house when he did, so it's unlikely that he staged the scene.  He says he gets worse after going out in the world, it takes more and more out of him.  I can buy that.  What I don't get is why he was wrapped in his foil blanket inside the house.  I thought that and his foil-lined suit that Jimmy fixed up for him were for the outside world.  Why would he need that protection inside of his house?

 

I feel like Chuck gets worse when he's upset about something with his brother. But I also think it's possible he plays it up for sympathy. Given that he and Howard had just sent Kim to The Cornfields, I don't think it's implausible he would surmise that Jimmy would get wind, get pissed, and come over. Not wanting to deal with a blowup, he makes himself too ill for a conversation. It's possible. 

 

As for why he lays under the blanket once he's already back in the safety of his electricity-free home - maybe he think there's some kind of detoxification going on? The blanket pulls the electricity out of him?

[Misstify]

She could have told them that Jimmy misled her, and gave her the impression that he'd already received permission to run the ad.

 

When Jimmy informed Chuck that he'd misled her, Chuck remarked that it would have helped her to bring that up when Hamlin was chewing her out. Jimmy explained that she probably didn't want to get him in further trouble.

I think it also may have been embarrassing for Kim to confess that Jimmy lied to her (or "strongly implied" an untruth) about the ad being approved.  It may have helped her somewhat, but then again it may not have...since she recommended Jimmy for this job.  I think she is already realizing that getting him into that job may have been a mistake.  She had faith in him, I believe she really did, but that was misguided.  That has become apparent rather quickly.

[Ohwell]

I believe Kim did have faith in Jimmy, but I also believe it was more for what she wanted him to be, than for what he wanted.  You can lead a horse to water, but...

[Umbelina]

Good points about Kim.

 

I would have said "I was under the impression that the firm had approved the commercial." in a heartbeat.  It doesn't say "Jimmy lied to me."  It could just as easily imply it wasn't discussed, or that she had misunderstood.

 

That part WAS a stretch for me to believe, that she'd just stand there, with her career on the line, and say nothing.  She IS a lawyer after all, and supposedly equipped to deal with a situation like that.

[DrSpaceman73]

Chuck was wearing a watch, very prominently, in the scene where he is sick on the couch. It seems like Jimmy noticed it and didn't mention it. Don't watches make him sick (in his own mind)? doesn't everyone have to remove their watch before Prince Chuck deigns to enter the room? What's up there? Is Chuck bullshitting/manipulating everyone? It does seem that he gets sick when Jimmy does something "bad".

Chuck is definitely bullshitting everyone. His :"sickness" is the ultimate in passive aggressive manipulation to dictate the terms to everyone around him. I would like to know the backstory of how his "illness" came about. It's a total mental illness. There are no studies that show his "illness" has any basis in physical reality.

That's a total overreaction by them in what they did to Kim, just for sort of knowing about the commercial. And of course she could have protested about not knowing the whole truth, not sure why she didn't. Its just once again him being passive aggressive though. He doesn't want to admit he is punishing her to really punish Jimmy, so he denies it, but it's obvious that is what he is doing. Or actually not him, he has his law partner do it all for him. That is how he works.

I don't imagine she and Jimmy will last the season, I am assuming the season arc will be the story of their relationship and split.

[shapeshifter]

Good points about Kim.

 

I would have said "I was under the impression that the firm had approved the commercial." in a heartbeat.  It doesn't say "Jimmy lied to me."  It could just as easily imply it wasn't discussed, or that she had misunderstood.

 

That part WAS a stretch for me to believe, that she'd just stand there, with her career on the line, and say nothing.  She IS a lawyer after all, and supposedly equipped to deal with a situation like that.

More good points about Kim.

However, she did say to Jimmy, "I can't believe they approved this" or something similar, and I do think she really could not believe it, so it would be hard for her to tell the bosses she thought they had approved it.

Plus, it never looks good to point fingers at others when you're being called in for what you did or didn't do.

[shapeshifter]

Chuck is definitely bullshitting everyone. His :"sickness" is the ultimate in passive aggressive manipulation to dictate the terms to everyone around him. I would like to know the backstory of how his "illness" came about. It's a total mental illness. There are no studies that show his "illness" has any basis in physical reality.

Yes, but I'm 99% sure Chuck is also bullshitting himself, so then some of the responsibility for his "illness" lies with those who allow it to be perpetuated rather than having him committed for psychiatric treatment. I'm pretty sure we have been shown that the partners at the law firm benefit financially from not having Chuck declared mentally unfit to manage his own affairs, and I think Jimmy may too.

[Ohwell]

But didn't Jimmy want Chuck to be committed last season, and the law firm didn't?

[Captanne]

Hm, I seem to remember a showdown in the hallway of the hospital between Jimmy and the Doctor.  The Doctor wanted him committed right away and Jimmy took him home.

[Ohwell]

Hm, I seem to remember a showdown in the hallway of the hospital between Jimmy and the Doctor.  The Doctor wanted him committed right away and Jimmy took him home.

Ah, ok.  I just remembered the scene in the hospital and I thought Jimmy wanted him to get help.  Guess I misremembered.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Ohwell

[Blakeston]

Chuck is definitely bullshitting everyone. His :"sickness" is the ultimate in passive aggressive manipulation to dictate the terms to everyone around him. I would like to know the backstory of how his "illness" came about. It's a total mental illness. There are no studies that show his "illness" has any basis in physical reality.

 

We don't have any reason to believe that Chuck is actually physically allergic to electricity. Last season he couldn't tell that the doctor turned on the electric bed, and he was able to walk outside without any problem when his mind was distracted.

 

But I can't even fathom that Chuck knows it's all in his head, and is just pretending he has it to manipulate people. He barely ever leaves his house, which has no electricity, which means he endures Albuquerque summers without air conditioning. We saw him struggling to get the neighbor's newspaper, even though he had no reason to think anyone was watching him. He wears the space blanket-lined-jacket to meetings.

 

And he has to know that he's seen as a joke by a lot of his colleagues, which to someone like Chuck is probably worse than death.

 

I can't buy that he's still going through all of that just to manipulate people. He's a manipulator in general, and I doubt he gives a damn about how much his "condition" is inconveniencing others. But that doesn't mean he isn't genuinely struggling.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Blakeston

[Madding crowd]

I still can't figure out how Chuck's firm is managing better financially by catering to his illness. If nothing else, it seems cruel to cater to a person with such significant delusions. I like the scenes with Chuck and Jimmy and always feel some sadness. I know what it is like to constantly try to prove something to someone who will never approve of you. Jimmy is a complex character. I don't think he really even cared about getting more cases through the commercial, he just has to do things to shake everything up. It seems hard to believe he even cares about Kim, he knows she will somehow pay the price for his transgressions.

 

In regard to Mike and his arc: Since my husband has been a police officer for over 20 years, we just don't like dirty cops, even fictional ones, although Banks is a great actor and really pulls off his role. I just find his story to be repetitive to what was shown on BB and what we already know about the character. And with every BB character they bring in, there is a moment of "Oh, yeah, that guy", and then I want to get back to Jimmy because his story arc seems new and not as tied to BB. Don't know if that makes sense, and I still adore the show.

[xyzzy]

I can't buy that he's still going through all of that just to manipulate people. He's a manipulator in general, and I doubt he gives a damn about how much his "condition" is inconveniencing others. But that doesn't mean he isn't genuinely struggling.

 

I think it's more complicated than that. It's entirely possible to have a severe anxiety disorder/ocd and be completely aware of how irrational all of your fears and phobias are and how those issues affect everyone around you. Not only have I personally experienced this, I've also known many people with severe anxiety, OCD, and phobias who suffer not just because of the primary disorder but because of their painful awareness of how much they affect everyone around them. That's the problem with Chuck. He's got the intellectual capacity to recognize his own irrationality. Even if he's too paralyzed to do anything about it right now, which is completely understandable, he's a scumbag for not even acknowledging to everyone around him that he has a problem and to apologize for requiring enablers to help him survive. He could be taking steps to minimize the negative effects he has on people due to his illness, but he just uses his disease as a hook to manipulate others. I would say the same thing if he had a physical illness (cancer, MS, whatever) and was using that to manipulate people.

[futurechemist]

I understand why Davis and Main were angry with Jimmy, but why were HHM angry with Kim?  Were they worried that the commercial would take clients away from them?  Upset that their name would be besmirched?  Angry about being kept out of the loop?

 

Then again, I don't really get how co-counsel works.  Do they have completely non-overlapping realms, or are they competing for clients?

 

I thought 1 of Chuck's worst moments was when he mocked that Jimmy would be late for work.  When 1 phone call to Davis and Main that Jimmy was late because he was taking care of Chuck would have absolved that.

[Irlandesa]

I understand why Davis and Main were angry with Jimmy, but why were HHM angry with Kim?  Were they worried that the commercial would take clients away from them?  Upset that their name would be besmirched?  Angry about being kept out of the loop?

It's about reputation and relationships.  Kim suggested Davis and Main hire Jimmy but she probably doesn't really have the power to make that relationship happen.  Howard does. So if Jimmy does things not considered 'appropriate' by either of these firms or if there's some reason for Davis and Main to be unhappy with Jimmy, it'll blow back on HHM since they recommended him. It'll be hard for Davis and Main to trust HHM's judgment in future similar matters. 

 

And Kim probably stuck her neck out a bit for Jimmy.  So yes, if he fails, it hurts her because something she advocated strongly for failed.

[xyzzy]

I understand why Davis and Main were angry with Jimmy, but why were HHM angry with Kim? ... Then again, I don't really get how co-counsel works.  Do they have completely non-overlapping realms, or are they competing for clients?

They were angry with Kim for not being transparent about Jimmy's activities at D&M. Kim and co. (except for Chuck, obviously) recommended Jimmy to D&M, so anything he does to hurt the firm will reflect poorly on HHM. As others have mentioned, Kim could have easily saved herself by telling them that Jimmy lied to her about D&M's involvement with the commercial, but chose not to for whatever reason. I'm reasonably certain that if she had done so, HHM would have eased up on her. At Jimmy's expense, of course--they would have told D&M about the deception.

 

Co-counsel situations can be complicated arrangements, but they are not in competition for clients at all. Each firm agrees to take on various responsibilities (billing, client acquisition and management, court filings and arguments, settlement negotiation, research, etc.) and determines what percentage each will take from the final settlement and what that percentage is based on. It's fairly common for small firms and/or single lawyers to get screwed by big firms if they're inexperienced, but smart lawyers bringing an impossibly large case to a bigger firm will insist on minimum percentages regardless of which firm puts in more billable hours or acquires the most clients for a class.

Edited March 10, 2016 by xyzzy

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Kim is entirely beholden to Howard for any career she hopes to make at HHM.  He went out on a limb backing her suggestion.  IIRC, he made a big deal out of letting her know she was already on shaaaaaaky ground with him.  She got that message real loud and clear.  (Not saying the thin ice was deserved, just that it was front and center)

 

So, she catches wind of a scheme she fully understood was dicey with Davis & Main.  What to do?  This is easy.  Ridiculously so.  She goes to Howard relating how remarkable it is that the firm was going with an ad created by Jimmy.   That Jimmy must be really fitting in well for them to trust him with such a thing.  Why, this helps boost Jimmy with Howard, right?  He's doing so great and he is fully integrating into D&M!  A win-win if there ever was one.  Trumpet the good news, woman!  

 

Now, if it turned out that Jimmy lied to her?  He fully deserves whatever goes down.  Better yet, she has largely inoculated herself from the resulting contagion and would get credit for the heads-up.  Her judgment would still be a big problem, to be sure.  But, at least HHM would not have gone into the situation blindly.

 

So.  Howard and Chuck have at least two very big issues with Kim:  1) Her loyalty to Jimmy over the firm and 2)  Her failure to understand how things "work."    Is that the type of savvy associate you want at Big Law, LLC?  

 

Tangential necessary suspension of disbelief...Somebody at D&M would have had the good sense to alert the Guitar Man that they were about to have this potential telethon.  If, by some cray cray coincidence nobody breathed a word of it, his Administrative Assistant/Office Manager would have been severely reprimanded or fired for not knowing.  Enlisting all those secretaries and paralegals and the AA wouldn't know?  Puh-lease.

 

It does not take a lot of intelligence or ability to practice perfectly ethical law.  It's not easy and it typically does not paaaaaay.  It takes quite a bit to figure out how to construct firewalls against liability for yourself and the firm, while pushing every conceivable edge, which inevitably results in going past the edge on occasion.  That takes skill, my friends.  That is valued.   Aaaaaah...the stories I could tell...YMMV.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Lonesome Rhodes

[ShadowFacts]

 

That's the problem with Chuck. He's got the intellectual capacity to recognize his own irrationality. Even if he's too paralyzed to do anything about it right now, which is completely understandable, he's a scumbag for not even acknowledging to everyone around him that he has a problem and to apologize for requiring enablers to help him survive. He could be taking steps to minimize the negative effects he has on people due to his illness, but he just uses his disease as a hook to manipulate others. I would say the same thing if he had a physical illness (cancer, MS, whatever) and was using that to manipulate people.

 

Yes.  But (and isn't there always a but), as with many diseases, there can be a significant element of denial. Chuck said something to Jimmy about him being like an alcoholic who doesn't see the problem.  Chuck is the same, but doesn't see that in himself.  It's a pretty human failing.

 

Speaking of denial, Kim suffers a little of that, too.  She has drawn a couple lines in the sand with Jimmy, he keeps crossing.  She hasn't totally faced that he isn't right for her.  And Jimmy has yet to really see that Kim will not ever be able to accept who he is at heart.  I might even extend this to Mike, who doesn't yet think he wants to be a hired killer for drug lords. 

[SoothingDave]

I still can't figure out how Chuck's firm is managing better financially by catering to his illness. If nothing else, it seems cruel to cater to a person with such significant delusions. I like the scenes with Chuck and Jimmy and always feel some sadness. I know what it is like to constantly try to prove something to someone who will never approve of you. Jimmy is a complex character. I don't think he really even cared about getting more cases through the commercial, he just has to do things to shake everything up. It seems hard to believe he even cares about Kim, he knows she will somehow pay the price for his transgressions.

 

 

This was established in the first season.  If Chuck is declared unfit, then he would have to cease being a partner.  Which means his share of the firm would need to be cashed out.  That would be a problem for the other partners.

[Tatum]

Kim is entirely beholden to Howard for any career she hopes to make at HHM.  He went out on a limb backing her suggestion.  IIRC, he made a big deal out of letting her know she was already on shaaaaaaky ground with him.  She got that message real loud and clear.  (Not saying the thin ice was deserved, just that it was front and center)

 

So, she catches wind of a scheme she fully understood was dicey with Davis & Main.  What to do?  This is easy.  Ridiculously so.  She goes to Howard relating how remarkable it is that the firm was going with an ad created by Jimmy.   That Jimmy must be really fitting in well for them to trust him with such a thing.  Why, this helps boost Jimmy with Howard, right?  He's doing so great and he is fully integrating into D&M!  A win-win if there ever was one.  Trumpet the good news, woman!  

 

Now, if it turned out that Jimmy lied to her?  He fully deserves whatever goes down.  Better yet, she has largely inoculated herself from the resulting contagion and would get credit for the heads-up.  Her judgment would still be a big problem, to be sure.  But, at least HHM would not have gone into the situation blindly.

 

So.  Howard and Chuck have at least two very big issues with Kim:  1) Her loyalty to Jimmy over the firm and 2)  Her failure to understand how things "work."    Is that the type of savvy associate you want at Big Law, LLC?  

 

 

That's what I think as well. Although I don't think Kim would have helped her cause by playing dumb and letting Howard know about the commercial in a round about way by commenting on how remarkable it is that a law firm that they KNOW is conservative with regards to commercials would have signed off on a showy advertisement designed by Jimmy. I think the only way Kim could have saved herself was to call Howard-that night- after seeing the commercial, and saying, look, Jimmy made a commercial for our Sandpiper case. It is completely not how this law firm usually does things, but Jimmy swears up and down it was approved and his boss actually called to congratulate him. I think in that case, while Kim is still responsible for recommending him in the first place- and urging Howard to do the same- at least she would have at that point disassociated herself with him.

 

However, once it got to the point where Kim was in the boardroom with Chuck and Howard, she only had two choices- 1. Admit she knew about the commercial and that in the 12 hours that had lapsed between finding out about its existence and being called into the board room, she had said nothing, or 2. Explain Jimmy told her it was approved, and that despite expressing surprise the law firm would have approved it, she took the word of a known liar over an issue she was skeptical on in the first place. Tough choice. As you said, either she was protecting Jimmy at the expense of the law firm, or she's an idiot for believing him. Neither option really made her look better than the other.

 

 

 

This was established in the first season.  If Chuck is declared unfit, then he would have to cease being a partner.  Which means his share of the firm would need to be cashed out.  That would be a problem for the other partners.

 

I understand this, as Chuck did explain it would cost a lot of staff their jobs, and the liquidation required to buy him out would be disruptive to the partners. What I DON'T understand is why Howard is so accommodating of Chuck. I mean, couldn't Howard say, fine, Chuck, you're welcome to return any time, but I am not going to insist all staff members, co counsel, and clients remove their phones in your presence, I am not going to pay an associate out of pocket to be your personal assistant and run out and buy the kind of apples you like, and I'm not going to be the fall guy for you and put myself on Jimmy's vindictive shit list because you're too chicken to tell him to his face you don't want him to work here,  etc? Are they just that good of friends?

[SoothingDave]

The cost of humoring Chuck on his sensitivity to electronics is pretty small.  He seems to be able to conduct himself normally and provide counsel when he is there, so it's not like he is a complete liability when he comes to the office.

 

It's not hard to imagine that the partners have personal assistants who run errands for them, so Chuck's isn't that different.  Even if it is something just he enjoys, again, it's a small cost to keep the partner happy.

 

As for Howard and Chuck's backstory, maybe that will be the next prequel?  

[Blakeston]

Chuck founded HHM with Howard's father. It makes sense to me that Howard would be very deferential to him.

Also, Howard has a huge financial motivation for keeping Chuck happy. If Howard refuses to collect everyone's cell phones when Chuck is coming in, then Chuck might want to collect his share of the firm and call it quits, which Howard can't afford.

I think it's more complicated than that. It's entirely possible to have a severe anxiety disorder/ocd and be completely aware of how irrational all of your fears and phobias are and how those issues affect everyone around you. Not only have I personally experienced this, I've also known many people with severe anxiety, OCD, and phobias who suffer not just because of the primary disorder but because of their painful awareness of how much they affect everyone around them. That's the problem with Chuck. He's got the intellectual capacity to recognize his own irrationality. Even if he's too paralyzed to do anything about it right now, which is completely understandable, he's a scumbag for not even acknowledging to everyone around him that he has a problem and to apologize for requiring enablers to help him survive. He could be taking steps to minimize the negative effects he has on people due to his illness, but he just uses his disease as a hook to manipulate others. I would say the same thing if he had a physical illness (cancer, MS, whatever) and was using that to manipulate people.

Which of Chuck's actions, related to his electricity issue, do you think he's doing with the goal of manipulating others?

He clearly doesn't care much about how much his issues are affecting other people. But that doesn't mean he's using his condition as a hook to manipulate them.

We've seen that he goes out of his way to avoid electromagnetic waves when no one else is around, so when he asks people to turn over their cell phones, I don't think manipulation is what's driving him.

[xyzzy]

Which of Chuck's actions, related to his electricity issue, do you think he's doing with the goal of manipulating others?

Hiding under his space blanket after Jimmy disappoints or upsets him is clear manipulation. He has very carefully cleansed his house of EMF, so there is literally nothing to protect himself from in his house.

[SoothingDave]

He didn't know Jimmy was coming over.  He was under the blanket because it soothes his "condition."  He's not doing it to manipulate anybody.  It's his sickness. 

 

If we were shown that he was enjoying himself in his house, when, hearing Jimmy knock, he suddenly jumps under his space blanket, that would be one thing.

 

We haven't been shown that.  

 

If he's doing it all in order to manipulate people, he has really committed to the bit.  Yanking all your wires out and living without a refrigerator or A/C is a long way to go to consciously choose to manipulate others.

[ShadowFacts]

Hiding under his space blanket after Jimmy disappoints or upsets him is clear manipulation. He has very carefully cleansed his house of EMF, so there is literally nothing to protect himself from in his house.

 

I don't think it's clear manipulation.  It may be just as he said, that it takes a lot out of him to leave the house.  We don't know that he wrapped himself in it only when he heard Jimmy coming in.  Besides, what manipulation did he do?  I don't see what he got out of the interaction that was manipulative.  He's not helping Jimmy erase himself as Jimmy McGill, Esquire, he said Jimmy can do that himself.

[xyzzy]

We haven't been shown that.  

 

We were, however, shown very specifically and pointedly that he was wearing a watch. And last season he spent an extended period of time outdoors with Jimmy, feeling the grass between his toes while the spectre of a power line loomed overhead. I think the show has given us enough clues to demonstrate that Chunk knows that he isn't actually sensitive to EMF.

 

But I don't think he is faking his illness or his fear, so you're mischaracterizing my posts if you're insinuating that. I think his mental illness is absolutely legit and I have no doubt that he is suffering. But I do think he uses his illness as a tool, and he has more than enough information and intellect to recognize that his fears are irrational even if he continues to be a slave to them.

[SoothingDave]

Watches can be non-electric.  That would be my assumption.  Some people upthread discussed the same thing.

 

If the showrunners meant for us to think that was proof of Chuck's being duplicitous, they failed.  

[ShadowFacts]

To switch back to Mike, I was thinking that there were so many ways for his plan with Tuco to have failed.  For one thing, the timing--not only could the cops not have come in time to witness the attack, they might have come way too late.  Stacey had just recently told Mike that the cops took an hour to come for her shots fired call.  Also, there was no guarantee that Tuco would even be tried, much less convicted, for a felony.  There could be plea-bargaining, getting off on a technicality, etc.  Mike knows as a corrupt cop himself that Tuco might have even made it all go away with the right inducement to the 'right' cops.  Even though his reasoning to Nacho that the cartel's ears would perk up around a murder was sound, it still does not solve Nacho's problem of Tuco's volatility in possibly murdering him.  He said it's him or me and it still is, even with the successful execution of Mike's plan, Tuco is only neutralized for awhile.

[Dev F]

So.  Howard and Chuck have at least two very big issues with Kim:  1) Her loyalty to Jimmy over the firm and 2)  Her failure to understand how things "work."    Is that the type of savvy associate you want at Big Law, LLC?  

 

Yep. There's also a tendency, I think, to assume that Chuck's heel turn at the end of last season meant that Howard had done a corresponding face turn -- that everything we thought was Howard being a jerk was actually Chuck's fault, and Howard is really a big softie. But as someone mentioned upthread, Howard was pretty stern with Kim at the beginning of last season in a situation that had nothing to do with Chuck -- which to me suggests that Howard is not a pushover in a general sense as much as he has a soft spot for Jimmy in particular.

 

After all, just like Jimmy, Howard is kind of a hustler at heart. Whereas Chuck thinks the law is sacred and sniffs at the recent legal changes that have allowed lawyers to advertise, Howard like his fancy suits and trademarked colors and billboards on the side of the highway. I think he sees something of himself in "Charlie Hustle" -- something that few of his buttoned-down colleagues share.

 

Whereas Kim is merely a particularly hardworking, conscientious lawyer in a firm filled with hardworking, conscientious lawyers. I'm sure Howard values her when she does good work, but I don't think he would go out on a limb for her the way he would for Jimmy. When she fucks up, she goes down to the bottom of the pile and a smart, diligent associate who hasn't fucked up recently takes her place.

[ghoulina]

He didn't know Jimmy was coming over.  He was under the blanket because it soothes his "condition."  He's not doing it to manipulate anybody.  It's his sickness.

If we were shown that he was enjoying himself in his house, when, hearing Jimmy knock, he suddenly jumps under his space blanket, that would be one thing.

 

I think the showrunners are generally more subtle than that. I don't think the lack of SHOWING us that Chuck deliberately got under the blanket meant it didn't happen. It's my personal belief that a lot about Chuck and his issue is up in the air. Was he under the blanket just to detox from a rough day? Possibly. Was he under there because deep down he feels guilt over his part in punishing Kim and that flared his symptoms? Possibly. Was he under there because he knew Jimmy would find out and come confront him, and he just didn't want to deal with it? Possibly. 

 

I think Chuck's illness is truly a mental illness. And I don't know how aware he is that it's not real. But I don't think that precludes it from using it to his advantage from time to time.