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Dispatches from K'un L'un: Iron Fist In The Press

Meredith Quill

By Meredith Quill
in Iron Fist [V]

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feverfew

feverfew

Carrie-Anne Moss to Reprise Jessica Jones Role in Iron Fist

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“Carrie-Anne has fast become a fan-favorite part of our street level saga, and we share our viewers’ excitement in bringing her into Marvel’s Iron Fist,” said Jeph Loeb, head of Marvel Television, in a statement to Marvel.com. “As Marvel fans know, Hogarth in the comics plays a critical role in the life of Danny Rand so it seems only fitting that Carrie-Anne join in.”

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NorthstarATL

NorthstarATL

I didn't realize that Tom Pelphrey had been cast! Loved him on "Banshee"! I don't recall Ward from the comics at all, though. I think I was ten or so when I read them. I'll have to look up some back issue stuff. (I was always confused by how a bionic arm works.)

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Jazzy24

Jazzy24

9 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

I am excited for this show but I wonder if they are going to say that his powers come fully from magic or are they going to try to have a science explanation. 

Since we're getting Doctor Strange before this and that character is all about magic I think they'll use the magic explanation. 

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TVSpectator

TVSpectator

21 hours ago, Jazzy24 said:

Since we're getting Doctor Strange before this and that character is all about magic I think they'll use the magic explanation. 

I don't know. They may or may not (and we really don't know for sure that they won't pull the "hey, it's really just advance technology" spiel in Dr. Strange) but I would bet that if there is magic, then they will probably mute it. We probably won't see an actual dragon (Jessica Jones in the comics flies but in the show she jumps. Now, I do like Jessica Jones but it was something that they decided to not show her doing probably because they wanted to stay grounded). 

 

Here is an article discussing it:

http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Why-Marvel-Having-Trouble-With-Iron-Fist-Netflix-Series-72848.html

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blackwing

blackwing

I'm excited for this one.  Finn Jones looks like a young Chris O'Donnell.  Would be interesting to see how he acts.  He was a fairly blank slate in "Game of Thrones".  Also, a bit scrawny.  I would imagine they put him on a training regimen like was done with Charlie Cox?

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Jazzy24

Jazzy24

51 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm excited for this one.  Finn Jones looks like a young Chris O'Donnell.  Would be interesting to see how he acts.  He was a fairly blank slate in "Game of Thrones".  Also, a bit scrawny.  I would imagine they put him on a training regimen like was done with Charlie Cox?

I'm excited for this one too. So far Netflix-Marvel shows have not let me down and I'm glad that the tone will be different from Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage

I remember reading that Finn had to go through lots of training plus the guy who did the martial arts for Marco Polo will also be doing it for the show. 

I also hope we get a Luke Cage appearance and that friendship played up its one of my all time favorite. I also heard rumors that we will see Danny Rand in like the last episode of Luke Cage. 

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JustaPerson

JustaPerson

After seeing all the black characters and actors in Luke Cage, I was kinda hoping Iron Fist could do the same with Asian actors (besides Danny himself of course). Looking at the cast list on imdb tho, it doesn't look like that's going to be the case. I suppose it would make Finn Jones stick out like a sore thumb. 

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Jazzy24

Jazzy24

1 hour ago, JustaPerson said:

After seeing all the black characters and actors in Luke Cage, I was kinda hoping Iron Fist could do the same with Asian actors (besides Danny himself of course). Looking at the cast list on imdb tho, it doesn't look like that's going to be the case. I suppose it would make Finn Jones stick out like a sore thumb. 

I was hoping that we would get Shang Chi(he's Marvel's greatest martial artist)but I haven't heard anything yet about him :-( 

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JustaPerson

JustaPerson

(edited)

I was wondering how they would do the glowing Qi fist so it wouldn't look stupid. I like the way they've done it. Not much risk of it looking too fake. 

 I am PUMPED for this -- more than any of the others. Just wish there were more Asians in the cast.

Edited by JustaPerson
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feverfew

feverfew

(edited)

Thanks, @starri But where's my

Spoiler

Misty? I love that relationship, and if they jettison it in order to play around with Colleen/Danny, I'll get really upset - especially because I want a Daughters of the Dragon miniseries (like The Punisher's getting).

Also (because Danny/Misty is The Best) I want this:

loves2.jpeg

Edited by feverfew
Spoilertagged because I'm asking after a specific character, who's inclusion is spoilery...
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feverfew

feverfew

Ouch. Alan Sepinwall did not like the show:

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If Iron Fist was an otherwise boring series with a hero who kicked butt in exciting ways early and often, I’d forgive the bland expository parts in the same way I do for a lot of action shows and movies. And if Finn Jones couldn’t fight but was otherwise a riveting screen presence blessed with sparkling dialogue and a compelling character arc, I’d get past the alleged living weapon’s lame physical prowess. But when neither part works at all, why would anyone but the most devout, masochistic Marvel completist want to watch?

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feverfew

feverfew

Seems much of the reviewers' problem with the show is Finn Jones, his lack of on-screen charisma and his inability to look like a believable martial arts master. I could have told them that - Loras Tyrell was about as exciting as a block of wood. Why, oh why couldn't the part have gone to someone like Lewis Tan?

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maraleia

maraleia

(edited)

More bad reviews http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/marvels-iron-fist-review-984200

http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/8/14848336/iron-fist-review-netflix-show-marvel

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/entertainment/reviews/iron-fist-review-marvel-netflix-1667564

http://variety.com/2017/tv/reviews/marvels-iron-fist-netflix-review-finn-jones-1202004027/ (Mo Ryan)

I hate that Netflix and Marvel insist on 13 episodes when Stranger Things and other shows on their platform tell their story with a much shorter episode order. For those into Marvel comics who else could they have featured that wouldn't have had the racially uncomfortable backstory and fit into the Defenders crossover show?

I can't believe we have to watch this to understand the Defenders.

Edited by maraleia
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feverfew

feverfew

(edited)

@maraleia I would have gone with an asian-american in the lead role, if I had been doing the casting. What's important is the culture difference, not race*; and since K'un L'un is a fictional place anyway, the Marvel could have gotten away from the icky stereotype of white-man-going-to-Asia-to-teach-them-all-how-to-do-it. After all, Danny Rand's supposed to be THE BEST martial arts fighter ever (at least outside of K'un L'un). I know "asian kung-fu fighter" is a stereotype in itself, but it's a lot less problematic than the "white savior" one. There's also the fact that so far, asian characters in The Defenders' universe has consisted of henchmen (NINJAS!) and Triads, aka the Bad Guys. Making Danny an asian-american would have gone a long way to balance that out.

*They did some interesting things with race in the Danny Rand/Luke Cage crossover Heroes for Hire (those two are supposed to be best friends) which were made possible by Danny's whiteness, but that's it.

In general, updating comics from the fifties and sixties and  seventies comes with a lot of problems. .

 

Edited to add: Oh, you meant a completely different character? Apologies; apparently I can't read. I would either have given Claire her own show (Night Nurse) or introduced Daughters of the Dragon (A Misty Knight/Colleen Wing team-up). Or done Iron Fist differently ;)

Edited by feverfew
Misunderstood the question
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Jazzy24

Jazzy24

5 hours ago, feverfew said:

@maraleia I would have gone with an asian-american in the lead role, if I had been doing the casting. What's important is the culture difference, not race*; and since K'un L'un is a fictional place anyway, the Marvel could have gotten away from the icky stereotype of white-man-going-to-Asia-to-teach-them-all-how-to-do-it. After all, Danny Rand's supposed to be THE BEST martial arts fighter ever (at least outside of K'un L'un). I know "asian kung-fu fighter" is a stereotype in itself, but it's a lot less problematic than the "white savior" one. There's also the fact that so far, asian characters in The Defenders' universe has consisted of henchmen (NINJAS!) and Triads, aka the Bad Guys. Making Danny an asian-american would have gone a long way to balance that out.

*They did some interesting things with race in the Danny Rand/Luke Cage crossover Heroes for Hire (those two are supposed to be best friends) which were made possible by Danny's whiteness, but that's it.

In general, updating comics from the fifties and sixties and  seventies comes with a lot of problems. .

 

Edited to add: Oh, you meant a completely different character? Apologies; apparently I can't read. I would either have given Claire her own show (Night Nurse) or introduced Daughters of the Dragon (A Misty Knight/Colleen Wing team-up). Or done Iron Fist differently ;)

I think Shang Chi is considered the best fighter, even better than Iron Fist. 

But these were only six episodes viewed let's hope that the other seven end on a high note and Finn Jones improves. 

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Negritude

Negritude

This show was not even on my radar but I just happened to stumble across an article about this getting terrible reviews with a 0% Rotten Tomatoes score. So of course I will be watching. Maybe its so bad its good?

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feverfew

feverfew

5 hours ago, Jazzy24 said:

I think Shang Chi is considered the best fighter, even better than Iron Fist. 

But these were only six episodes viewed let's hope that the other seven end on a high note and Finn Jones improves. 

You're right; he is. And he was even a part of Heroes for Hire - one way to avoid some of the blacklash would have been to use him instead. Perhaps he'll show up in the back seven? Or in a possible season 2, like The Punisher did in Daredevil?

Oh, well. We're getting Iron Fist no matter how much I moan. Being a negative Nelly won't help, so I'll try to keep an open mind :) Collen Wing at least looks badass and I'll cross my fingers and toes and hope

Spoiler

Misty shows up in the back half.

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

On 08/03/2017 at 4:30 PM, maraleia said:

More bad reviews http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/marvels-iron-fist-review-984200

http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/8/14848336/iron-fist-review-netflix-show-marvel

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/entertainment/reviews/iron-fist-review-marvel-netflix-1667564

http://variety.com/2017/tv/reviews/marvels-iron-fist-netflix-review-finn-jones-1202004027/ (Mo Ryan)

I hate that Netflix and Marvel insist on 13 episodes when Stranger Things and other shows on their platform tell their story with a much shorter episode order. For those into Marvel comics who else could they have featured that wouldn't have had the racially uncomfortable backstory and fit into the Defenders crossover show?

I can't believe we have to watch this to understand the Defenders.

I'll still give this show a chance but the fact that a bunch of the reviews i have seen call it boring is concerning. Especially since the big criticism of Luke Cage was also that it was boring. I would think with that on their minds they would try to make sure that Iron  Fist was exciting as possible. I would really think you would want this show to finish on the highest note possible to lead people into the Defenders.

Plus how do you screw up a show about a martial arts guy. The fight scenes in Daredvevil have been awesome.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

The bad reviews are disappointing, I was looking forward to this show. Because I love seeing martial arts fighting. Although the critics raved about Luke Cage and I found that show mostly boring and found Luke to be as dull as he was on Jessica Jones. It was the secondary characters that kept me watching that show. 

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

There seems to be a lot of anger from critics, over Iron Fist apparently not being good. Like, a disproportionate level of anger for a TV show that hashe disappointed. It's quite odd. I've seen several sites now that are practically accusatory over it, and are now laying into Finn Jones for using the old 'it's for the fans, not the critics' line when asked about the bad reviews.

If it sucks, it's not the end of the world. It's only a TV show. Why so angry? Though honestly,  I think some critics are delighted it's not good, or perhaps even exaggerate it's bad points, because of the socio-political issues around it.

Also, I thought Luke Cage was pretty bad. The first few episodes were promising, then it just got really stupid.

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

22 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Also, I thought Luke Cage was pretty bad. The first few episodes were promising, then it just got really stupid.

Agreed, it did start off cool but seeing Luke fight goon after goon without getting hurt and the big villains get more and more inept just got tiring. What worrries me about this show is that Luke Cage did start off strong before turning bad. If critics have only seen the first few episodes of Iron Fist and they already have problems with it that tells me something.

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maraleia

maraleia

The thing that saved Luke Cage and Daredevil at times was the supporting cast while the reviewers of Iron Fist are saying none of the characters on that show are interesting in their own right.

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magdalene

magdalene

I'll check it out and make up my own mind about it.  My interest in this is pretty casual to begin with - the one  I am really interested in - the netflix Punisher adaptation doesn't arrive until the fall.

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

I still plan on watching, but I'm not surprised to here that is easily the weakest of Marvel's Netflix line-up.  The trailers just seemed generic at best and like a pale imitation of Arrow at worst, which I get is true to its origins, but the repetitiveness is still noticeable.  Someone really needs to coach Finn Jones though, on how to handle bad press, because he is not coming off well at all.

I'm glad at least some of the reviews I read are a bit more positive about Jessica Henwick, as I kind of felt bad for her during her horrible Game of Thrones arc, and I hope she fares better here.  Plus, David Wenham will hopefully be fun.  But, yeah, expectations are low.  And I just found out the showrunner is Scott Buck, who did the last seasons of Dexter, so, yeah, best not to ever get my hopes up, here.

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benteen

benteen

Oof.  Finn's character is completely misused on Game of Thrones for six seasons.  He gets himself a lead role in Marvel Netflix's newest series and it turns out to be the worst one and he keeps shooting himself in the foot with stupid statements.  Not good.

I think Marvel is hurting themselves by clinging to the 13 episode format.  As much as I've greatly enjoyed their series, they haven't been producing stories long enough for 13 episodes.  Yet they seem to arrogantly keep clinging to that format.

I'll still watch and hope that it's good.

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Oscirus

Oscirus

I'm not feeling good about the lack of standout villain. Even Cage had Ali for half it's run. On the plus side, Colleen Wing seems to be getting rave reviews. I guess she might be able to save this show if it's as boring as the critics are saying, but I doubt it.

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Pete Martell

Pete Martell

(edited)
On 3/8/2017 at 9:56 AM, feverfew said:

Seems much of the reviewers' problem with the show is Finn Jones, his lack of on-screen charisma and his inability to look like a believable martial arts master. I could have told them that - Loras Tyrell was about as exciting as a block of wood. Why, oh why couldn't the part have gone to someone like Lewis Tan?

Loras was a non-character like many on the paper-thin GoT, with even very strong actors (better than Finn) clearly lost at sea. Loras in particular was one of the worst-written characters I've ever seen on television. Even then he was still more interesting to me than many of the prize ponies who have dragged the show down to the point where I don't bother watching.

To be honest I was surprised they were giving Iron Fist his own show at all, because "Marvel Fu" is a limited genre and with the huge backlash over representation and racism that has hit Marvel's movies and TV shows (Dr. Strange, the last season of Daredevil, among others), I would have thought they'd have been more cautious. I guess someone at Marvel's TV/movies division believed their own hype. I don't think he was the right choice but I don't think there was a right choice if they were going to cast a white actor. 

I was hoping that Finn would get something good out of it as he was very patient with the trash D&D served up for his character on GoT, but his comments, especially the one about Trump (and no this isn't political before I get any warning), are about as tone deaf as you can get. 

I guess I'll just have to throw this into the general bin of mediocrity that is Marvel in recent years, and hope he learns a bit more before he speaks. 

Edited by Pete Martell
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feverfew

feverfew

(edited)
4 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

Loras was a non-character like many on the paper-thin GoT, with even very strong actors (better than Finn) clearly lost at sea. Loras in particular was one of the worst-written characters I've ever seen on television. Even then he was still more interesting to me than many of the prize ponies who have dragged the show down to the point where I don't bother watching.

To be honest I was surprised they were giving Iron Fist his own show at all, because "Marvel Fu" is a limited genre and with the huge backlash over representation and racism that has hit Marvel's movies and TV shows (Dr. Strange, the last season of Daredevil, among others), I would have thought they'd have been more cautious. I guess someone at Marvel's TV/movies division believed their own hype. I don't think he was the right choice but I don't think there was a right choice if they were going to cast a white actor. 

I was hoping that Finn would get something good out of it as he was very patient with the trash D&D served up for his character on GoT, but his comments, especially the one about Trump (and no this isn't political before I get any warning), are about as tone deaf as you can get. 

I guess I'll just have to throw this into the general bin of mediocrity that is Marvel in recent years, and hope he learns a bit more before he speaks. 

Oh, I absolutely agree that Loras Tyrell was about as 2-dimensional as a character can get (that said, I still enjoy the show. But then again I never found the source material to be all that, so my expectations were quite low from the beginning). I think I'm just racking my brain to figure out why he was given the role in the first place. I mean, if he was a marvellous MA fighter, I could forgive some fumbles, actingwise. The Punisher worked in part because Jon Bernthal is so darn charismatic in the role (in general I prefer my heroes to be more whitehat than not, but Bernthal's Frank really struck a cord with me). But nothing Finn Jones did on GoT convinced me he's the sort of actor who can rise above bad material. That he's leading man material. So what I'm hoping for is season 1-2 of Arrow: A wooden lead actor with some good-to-great secondary players. And hopefully a scrip that doesn't degenerate as badly as Dexter.

As for why they went with Iron Fist in the first place, I think has to do with The Defenders. Before Daredevil even made it to the small screen, they talked about wanting to do a Defenders-series. Iron Fist was probably chosen because of his relationship with Power Man (I can't with that name. I'm so happy they just went with "Luke Cage" on the show). And this was wayyy before any backlash in regards to Doctor Strange. So they committed to that - and didn't have the wherewithal to change paths when people started to - justly - point out there were some issues with that portrayal.

I get why Jones is frustrated: This was supposed to be his big break! But as of right now he's just making it worse.

Edited by feverfew
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wayne67

wayne67

On 3/17/2017 at 0:11 AM, feverfew said:

I get why Jones is frustrated: This was supposed to be his big break! But as of right now he's just making it worse.

I doubt there's anything he could say that will make the critics change their minds about his acting or skin color. I don't know why he bothers. I would have just ignored all the opinions on social media and kept cashing in my paychecks. 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

It's not whitewashing if the original character is white. Its whitewashing if the character is asian and they cast a white actor. Thats not the case here. Could they have changed the race, yes. They could change the race of any of the Superheros, yet how would people react if they cast Black actor or Asian actor to play Batman? 

I think they made a mistake with the casting of Danny, but that has nothing to do with the actors race. It's that he's not a good actor. 

However the actor and the creator probably need to talk to their PR people before answering any questions about that subject.

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zxy556575

zxy556575

If I got bent every time a critic panned a show I liked, I'd never be unbent. It pretty common for audiences to like movies/TV more than critics. Entertainment Weekly shows an aggregate grade from critics and one from viewers, and it's always interesting to see the differences.

It does make me twist my mouth a bit to read something that tears down entertainment I enjoy, but it rankles more when something I dislike is extolled: "Are you crazy!" Heh.

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rmontro

rmontro

On 3/14/2017 at 0:52 AM, benteen said:

I think Marvel is hurting themselves by clinging to the 13 episode format.  As much as I've greatly enjoyed their series, they haven't been producing stories long enough for 13 episodes.  Yet they seem to arrogantly keep clinging to that format.

I agree the 13 episode seasons are too long.  Most of them have felt like they were starting to drag or get stuffed with filler somewhere along the way.  I bet they could tell much more concise and interesting stories in 10, or even 8 episode seasons.

I'm a little surprised by all the negative reviews this show has gotten.  It's 18% on Rotten Tomatoes, most Marvel shows are around 90%.  

Even if you think this is the weakest of the Marvel series, I don't see there being that big of a gap.  From what I can see, what they're doing on Iron Fist isn't much different than what they're doing with their other series.  I think a lot of it is just the inevitable backlash finally hitting.

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