S06.E10: Abby Lee Horror Story

[OnceSane]

The ALDC travels to Northern California; Abby's routines grow darker; the mothers' prank attempt backfires horribly; Maddie, Brynn and Kendall compete with solos; Ashlee will do anything to give Brynn an advantage.

[spidermiss2426]

Can I just say if that pajama stunt wasn't scripted... How seriously immature and schoolgirl are you?  And I do say "if" it wasn't scripted, because in my adult life I have seen adult women do stuff just as immature or moreso against other adults (and once against me).  I love Brynn's and Maddie's solos.  Kendall's was okay.  The group routine was beautiful, but there was nothing really cult-like about it.

 

When does dance Moms return?  I was unsure. 

[spanana]

I know I say this once a week but the moms are insane, especially Jill.  I guess Jill is playing her assigned role to perfection this season. Ashlee may not be innocent in all this, but it is not her place to decide whose children should be on camera when their parents aren't present.  Especially if you aren't going to tell her what little stunt you have going on. Please Jill...and let's not pretend like you would have looked out for Brynn if the shoe was on the other foot.

Edited March 9, 2016 by spanana

[KaveDweller]

I know I say this once a week but the moms are insane, especially Jill.  I guess Jill is playing her assigned role to perfection this season. Ashlee may not be innocent in all this, but it is not her place to decide whose children should be on camera when their parents aren't present.  Especially if you aren't going to tell her what little stunt you have going on. Please Jill...and let's not pretend like you would have looked out for Brynn if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

Seriously. The moms should have known there would be repercussions to the kids for there little stunt. The producers clearly said they weren't going to let the other kids on camera, what was Ashlee supposed to do? They'd also have gotten mad if she tried to authorize anything for the kids. Now the producers may have been lying to orchestrate drama, but that's another story. I bet the moms didn't know they were going to show the clips with the producer and thought Ashlee would really look like the bad one. Jill was the worst, and looks really petty for going after Brynn so much.

 

I did think it was awful of Ashlee to tell Brynn that being on the show was the worst thing she's ever had to done so she better work hard.

 

The moms were terrible at explaining what a cult was.

 

Last season I liked Jess, but she's totally lost me now. She's as bad as the rest of them.

 

Maddie looked surprised to hear that Lizzie Borden gave her mother 40 wacks. Do kids not learn the song anymore? She did a great job with the dance, especially the crazy eyes. I didn't get what all the fuss was about with her in past seasons, but she is impressing me these days.

[Chewy101]

Whether or not Abby deserves the lawsuit and following breakdown she has been showing, it was so petty and ignorant of the moms to mimic her like she was struggling for absolutely no reason. Whether or not the moms can excuse Abby's predicament, mocking her reaction to it- especially at the expense of the kids, was so narcissistic and ignorant. And at this point, they have called her inept enough times that there is no excuse for them not leaving. Except they really like being on TV. The kids aren't even an issue. They pretend to pay for lessons, pretend to be indignant at the service, and then get extensions and manicures and work themselves up into a self righteous frenzy for good screen time. 

The show is DANCE MOMS, you morons. So when you don't show, your kids dont get the time. It protects them, yet you whine about it. All of you need shrinks.

I hate these women so much.....

Maddie looked surprised to hear that Lizzie Borden gave her mother 40 wacks. Do kids not learn the song anymore? She did a great job with the dance, especially the crazy eyes. I didn't get what all the fuss was about with her in past seasons, but she is impressing me these days.

 

 

I don't know that this one was terribly popular with kids.... But if it was, maybe it was like Ring Around the Rosie, where kids sang the catchy tune and had no idea the actual reference.   

Edited March 9, 2016 by Chewy101

[RedFire2000]

A Manson themed dance? The black dahlia? I'm pretty appalled, tbh.

I thought it was tasteless of Gianna to flippantly show Brynn the actual Black Dahlia murder victim on her phone (and presumably the horrifying uncensored police photos judging by Brynn's facial reactions). Elizabeth Short, the real Black Dahlia, was brutally murdered and mutilated/disfigured.

 

What's next, one of the minis playing the ghost of JonBenet Ramsey?

[Chewy101]

I will admit that, when one of the kids OR moms said, "I didn't know what was going on, but I just wanted to drink the Koolaid and be done with it,"  I didn't care for that reference to the largest mass suicide in history, when they didn't even understand what they were saying. I can enjoy a dark piece, but to properly represent it, you know what's happened, and you are "reliving" it as an actor. That, unfortunately, was not happening here..

I thought it was tasteless of Gianna to flippantly show Brynn the actual Black Dahlia murder victim on her phone (and presumably the horrifying uncensored police photos judging by Brynn's facial reactions). Elizabeth Short, the real Black Dahlia, was brutally murdered and mutilated/disfigured.

 

What's next, one of the minis playing the ghost of JonBenet Ramsey?

THIS

[KaveDweller]

Whether or not Abby deserves the lawsuit and following breakdown she has been showing, it was so petty and ignorant of the moms to mimic her like she was struggling for absolutely no reason. Whether or not the moms can excuse Abby's predicament, mocking her reaction to it- especially at the expense of the kids, was so narcissistic and ignorant. And at this point, they have called her inept enough times that there is no excuse for them not leaving. Except they really like being on TV. The kids aren't even an issue. They pretend to pay for lessons, pretend to be indignant at the service, and then get extensions and manicures and work themselves up into a self righteous frenzy for good screen time. 

The show is DANCE MOMS, you morons. So when you don't show, your kids dont get the time. It protects them, yet you whine about it. All of you need shrinks.

I hate these women so much.....

 

I don't know that this one was terribly popular with kids.... But if it was, maybe it was like Ring Around the Rosie, where kids sang the catchy tune and had no idea the actual reference.   

 

Well when I was a kid I didn't know it was a real life person, but everyone knew the jump rope song. So if someone said "Lizzie Borden" I would have immediately thought of the song that says she killed her parents.

 

I thought it was tasteless of Gianna to flippantly show Brynn the actual Black Dahlia murder victim on her phone (and presumably the horrifying uncensored police photos judging by Brynn's facial reactions). Elizabeth Short, the real Black Dahlia, was brutally murdered and mutilated/disfigured.

 

I am going to give Gianna the benefit of the doubt that she didn't expect to see such graphic pictures when she did a quick search. It looked like she pulled the phone away when she realized Brynn was horrified by them.

 

What's next, one of the minis playing the ghost of JonBenet Ramsey?

 

Are the minis even around anymore? I kind of forgot about them.

[Chewy101]

"You can be in this cult if you are a winner!"

 

Add that, too, is why i feel uneasy about these wretched women. <eyeroll>

Edited March 9, 2016 by Chewy101

[CousinAmy]

 

Maddie looked surprised to hear that Lizzie Borden gave her mother 40 wacks. Do kids not learn the song anymore? 

Most likely not. When I was in junior high, around 1962, we were assigned a report about someone we considered a "hero." I, of course, being the maverick, chose Lizzie Borden. I read a few books about her, but I think my mom (born in the 1920s) might have told me about the song first. So this goes a long, long way back. I don't think it's relevant to kids today, and not something their mothers (born in the 1970s?) would even know. 

[NoirDetective]

I don't know. Lizzie Borden has always been fairly in the culture, especially since the Christina Ricci version that aired on the same network during the same year as this show. These girls didn't see the relentless commercials while watching/tweeting their own show? Please.

Maybe one of the Dunce Moms could've looked up what a cult is on Gianna's phone, since they are all apparently morons. Holly was an educator?! Oh boy.

I love how Jill thought it was cute they were all playing Hollywood starlets (Lizzie Borden?), then someone chuckled they all came to bad ends. Just like all of your kids! Clueless.

Kendall is just not that talented and that's all there is to it. Her mask-like face while she dances is off-putting. I wish Maddie well, but I have doubts about her non-dance talents and the management team of Melissa and Abby.

Jessalyn I find the most ugly and desperate of all the moms. Jojo can go-go far into the distance. Notice how we never hear them bitching they don't get solos, because they are always disasterous.

Why do these women think Ashlee is desperate to fit in with them? It would great for them not to be catty bitches while waiting for a class to happen, but with friends like those and Brynn doing fine without her befriending the shrews, not sure what the incentive is. I mean, for them it's obviously "Everyone wants to be a Dunce Mom!"

I actually would like Abby to get shipped away, yet the show continue as these girls try to make it. That could be a good train wreck. Acting moms?

[RCharter]

"You can be in this cult if you are a winner!"

Add that to how uneasy I feel about these wretched women

These nitwits acting as though any reference to a cult is a good thing.  Although, I guess they are like a cult in that none of them appears to be able to think for themselves.

 

I do not understand how Ashelee was to blame for the kids missing a day of practice.  And Jill indignantly mentioning how the kids missed an entire day as though it wasnt her own damn fault made my blood boil.  I hate her for making me side with Ashlee, who I also don't like, but who was absolutely right in this situation.  Jill somehow expected that Ashelee -- the NEWEST member of the team (and not EVEN a member of the team to hear the others moms tell it) was supposed to know to tell a show producer how to do their job?  And she was supposed to stick her neck out when she isn't even on the team -- as they are so quick to tell her?  Why should she look out for their interests when they have made it clear that she isn't on the team?

 

They all looked absolutely stupid showing up in pajamas, Abby gave about zero shits, and even if she cared, the only thing it would accomplish is Abby taking it out on their kids.

 

And Jill, dummy that she is, doesn't realize that its Kendall that has the most to lose.  Jill is so worried about Brynn being in competition with Kendall to replace Maddie, but she gave Brynn the competitive edge in that competition, because she is a better dancer, and she let her have extra time alone with Abby to perfect her solo.  I think Jill saw how stupid she was and regretted it, but instead of taking responsibility, decided to blame Ashelee.

 

Maddie's dance was fantastic, and I thought the group dance was pretty.

[MyFavShows]

I only saw the show from when Brynn went on stage and till the end - so many things that were in incredibly bad taste for minors to be dancing to - just awful. The kool aid thing was bad too.

All that said, Maddie's solo was spectacular - I forgot about how horribly inappropriate and distasteful it was for a 13 year old to be dancing around w/ a bloody axe almost as soon as she started dancing cause she was just so good.

Brynn's dance did not have the same affect - I was so grossed out about her make-up and the concept of the dance that I couldn't focus on anything else. She just seems to me like a kid who was born w/ good flexibility, long legs and good feet, but she really can't perform or do anything that requires much training beyond her natural talent. I'm less impressed w/ her every week.

I was appauled by the Manson reference in the group to the point that I couldn't really appreciate any of the dancing (I recently saw a documentary show on him so maybe it was more fresh in my mind).

[sharkerbaby]

I thought they were making reference to the Jonesyee cult led by Jim Jones.  The kept referencing "drink the kool aid" which is a phrase derived from the method of death employed my most of the cult members when they committed mass suicide at the direction of their leader Jim Jones in the late 70s.

[Odelia]

Sorry to ramble but I write as I watch..

 

Stupid mothers, bet they didn't think it would backfire on their girls like that, being late. For ONCE I'm with Ashlee, of course it must be legal reasons the girls couldn't come in.

Awwww a Christie reference <3
Jill complaining it won't have costuming etc because it's her child, pleaseeee Abby has given Kendall great costumes in the past.

Omg, what happened to Maddie's turns, she got SO MUCH BETTER! Ahhh don't leave Maddie, she is so good :(

I hate how Kendall blamed not getting "the full package" on why she wouldn't beat Maddie and Brynn.

Why was Jill jealous of Brynn's lyrical, Kendall got a lyrical too! And what does she mean Abby had no one else to give it too, Jojo, Kenzie, Nia?

Watching Kendall after Brynn was. unpleasant. She was awful. Brynn is a wonderful dancer, although indeed with no emotion. Kendall is an avrage dancer with no emotion.
Then we have Maddie, while the other two are lifeless bodies on stage, she is possessed, alive, that was amazing, I had chills.
Loved the group routine too and that it seemed like a real competition. And the nice coolaid bonding at the end.

[sofiah]

Ugh shut up Jill.  

 

How did Brynn get the solo just because the other moms didn't show up?  Abby said from the get-go that she was giving out 3 solos.  Jill's argument quite simply makes zero sense.  She is grasping and its quite pathetic.  Same as her blaming Ashleigh for PRODUCTION'S rule that the girls couldn't be on camera.   Just makes no sense. 

 

Poor Kendall has now been brainwashed into believing that the only reason she doesn't always win is because she doesn't get the "whole package".  While it might be true that she doesn't - and her dance this episode did look better then usual - that is not the only reason she doesn't beat Maddie and/or Brynn.   It does her no favors to convince her that the only reason she doesn't win is because of favoritism.  

 

Brynn's dancing is a joy to watch.  No she is not the best "performer" but she's an amazing dancer.  They really should not have had the blood all over her face though, distracting and unnecessary.  The wig was also not needed.  Maddie's solo was also good - I feel like Maddie is really living up to her reputation as "the best" lately.  I don't know how, since she seems to have been so busy lately, but her dancing has actually improved.  

[Lemons]

I wish Maddie well, but I have doubts about her non-dance talents and the management team of Melissa and Abby.

 

Abby has nothing to do with Maddie outside of the show.  She is represented by a top Hollywood agency.

 

I thought the dance Brynn did was her best so far.  It was an actual dance and not just a ton of disjointed poses that show what she knows how to do best, like she usually does.  And the makeup helped her because it hid her blank expression. 

 

Poor Kendall was pretty bad.  Maddie put her acting to use and really showed up the other girls in the performance part.

 

Brynn's dance did not have the same affect - I was so grossed out about her make-up and the concept of the dance that I couldn't focus on anything else. She just seems to me like a kid who was born w/ good flexibility, long legs and good feet, but she really can't perform or do anything that requires much training beyond her natural talent. I'm less impressed w/ her every week.

I wonder if she is just a one trick pony or it's just that they make her do the same things she does best over and over.  She seems a bit awkward without great musicality but who knows.

[BusyOctober]

And the transformation from human beings into badly drawn anime cartoons continues.  The hair and makeup on this show is more campy than Ru Paul Drag Race.  Jess looks like she's going for a combo Mae West/Kewpie doll style with that hair and drawn on lips. And when did she get so far up Jill's butt?

 

When did Jill's dementia completely erase her memory?  She doesn't remember being the Abby Lee Miller sycophant with all her flattery, bribery, gifts, massages, wheedling to get her kid "privates"?  She was 100 x's worse with her ass-kissing than Ashlee.  Jill is truly delusional if she thinks Kendall has a shot as being a successful professional dancer.  Kendall may be able to perform the choreography, but she is lifeless and clunky on stage.  It looks like she hesitates before moving into a turn or leap. There isn't fluidity in her movements. There isn't any joy or emotion in her dancing. If Kendall really wants to pursue a dance career, she needs to go to a studio that can give her proper training.  She might benefit from acting lessons too so she can learn how to emote.

 

I'm sure the producers push Abby into picking her dance themes.  The moms are too obtuse to see the shade being thrown their way!  The Black Dahlia was a poor working-class girl who moved to Hollywood with big dreams of being a "star" and ended up brutally murdered because of her desperation to be famous (or meet famous people).  Natalie Wood was a childhood movie star with lots of success at a young age, but struggled to earn respect for her roles as an adult.  Ended up dead.  Lizzie Borden was raised in a home with emotionally and psychologically (maybe even physically) abusive home with tyrannical parents. Ended up accused of killing those parents, and even though she wasn't convicted, she became a pariah.  Don't even need to explain the group "Cult" inference! Yet, these dopey, undereducated moms think portraying these doomed females is somehow complimentary??? 

 

Compared to all the idiocy of the moms in this one, Abby came across pretty sane & stable.

[Chewy101]

The moms were SO Mean Girl this week, it was hard to take. Brynn's mom is mean, too, but she was NOT in any way responsible for fighting the producers about letting the others girls dance. It's been made clear she is not included in their clique and that Brynn is not on the team, so she owes those kids nothing.
Their evil treatment of one another makes me wonder how their girls can possibly be nice people. The example set is so poor. I wonder if the husbands watch this crap. I'd be mortified.

I am sick of Maddie. That smug look on her face when she said she was fine with Brynn not being on top of the pyramid was annoying. At this point, she is too good for this show, so leave already.

I did not get the impression that Kendall getting Natalie Wood was a good thing. I think Abby was mocking her for being unable to do anything besides the pretty girl. Kendall needs acting lessons. She needs to watch her performances and recognize how wooden she looks. No question that Maddie's acting is what people really remember her for. Not just dance, but the whole performance.

 

 

I noticed that they were careful not to mention Manson's name but it was pretty obvious given the costuming and the reference to "family" they kept on making. Absolutely disgusting to glamorize a group of people who committed ghastly crimes.

 

I thought they were making reference to the Jonesyee cult led by Jim Jones.  The kept referencing "drink the kool aid" which is a phrase derived from the method of death employed my most of the cult members when they committed mass suicide at the direction of their leader Jim Jones in the late 70s.

 

 

 

I think it was a blend and Abby probably doesn't know history. This whole idea was so appalling to me for this age group. How are they supposed to feel the emotion when they are too young to know about this stuff.

 

I did enjoy an episode where Holly was completely mute for at least half of it. Can Jill try that next?

[Clemgo3165]

 

I did not get the impression that Kendall getting Natalie Wood was a good thing. I think Abby was mocking her for being unable to do anything besides the pretty girl. Kendall needs acting lessons. She needs to watch her performances and recognize how wooden she looks. No question that Maddie's acting is what people really remember her for. Not just dance, but the whole performance.

 

I figured she got that part because it fit with the theme of the solo dances and because Kendall resembles Natalie. I've never thought of Natalie Wood's performances as wooden. She was a charming child actor and delightful as an adult as well.

 

I couldn't figure out why they couldn't use Jim Jones as an example of a cult - and explain "drink the kool-aid" at the same time. I thought it was weird when Ashlee actually brought out the kool-aid at the end given how the Jones members died.

 

 

I feel like Maddie is really living up to her reputation as "the best" lately.  I don't know how, since she seems to have been so busy lately, but her dancing has actually improved.

 

I think Maddie's really honed her performance skills with the acting and other parts she's been taking on. That, and working with other choreographers I think have contributed to her recent performances. Judging from the talking heads and little snippets of the girls, I'm not sure I'd like Maddie very much if I were her peer, but she's been living up to her reputation as a performer lately and I've enjoyed watching her. Something I never thought I'd say.

[RCharter]

I thought they were making reference to the Jonesyee cult led by Jim Jones.  The kept referencing "drink the kool aid" which is a phrase derived from the method of death employed my most of the cult members when they committed mass suicide at the direction of their leader Jim Jones in the late 70s.

 

 

I noticed that they were careful not to mention Manson's name but it was pretty obvious given the costuming and the reference to "family" they kept on making. Absolutely disgusting to glamorize a group of people who committed ghastly crimes.

 

The "kool aid" reference is clearly about Jonestown.  The costuming was probably more Manson family, or any other 60's cult.  But I agree with the poster that Abby probably doesn't have much idea what she is talking about.  I suspect there was maybe a quick look at a wikipedia page about cults and that was that.

 

The problem for Kendall/Jill is that there is really no way to give Kendall a solo that is something other than "pretty girl" which is what Natalie Wood was.  There was no other solo that Kendall could have really done because the other solos weren't "pretty."  

 

I think Brynn is probably a very technically proficient dancer, but for my money, if you're going to do a character it might have been better to give it to Jojo.  The piece relied so heavily on the character of the Black Dhalia.  While someone as young as these girls can't really capture the essence of the desperation and pain that surrounded her, and the sensational and ugly nature of her death.  She was really a tragic figure in so many ways. I think Jojo would have more easily gone to that dark place.  I'm not sure if Kalani was up to dancing a solo, but she might have been a good pick as well.  However, I think Abby probably gave it to Brynn to see if she could bring a character to life.

 

I'm surprised she didn't do Peggy Entwhistle.

[RedheadZombie]

Abby:  "For solos this week, we're doing three famous deaths in Hollywood".

 

So Fall River, Massachusetts qualifies as Hollywood now?  And Lizzie Borden was a starlet, how?  And by the way, the "famous deaths" were of Lizzie's father and step-mother, not Lizzie. 

 

I'm always a little surprised when I realize how dumb these people are.

[Absolom]

Ratings:  1.210 M viewers and a .49 rating.

[spanana]

Seems to be an unpopular opinion, but I love watching Brynn dance.  She's gorgeous to watch.  I don't really buy this she's an emotionless robot who just happens to be naturally talented.  No, she can't perform like Maddie or Kehlani...though to be fair Maddie wasn't performing like Maddie until the last year or so.  Abby was constantly beating it over our heads what a great performer Maddie was since S1 and all I saw was constipated Maddie face.  It took getting her into the real professional dance world for her to finally grow into an amazing performer.  Anyway, point being Brynn has a ways to go on the performance end but I also don't think she's a blank page (like Kendall) either.  Plus she's such a gorgeous dancer that I don't ever care sometimes.   She has such amazing control.

 

Also yes, if Abby gave the solo to Jojo she might have have been able to better perform the solo from an emotional perspective.  But let's be real in that Brynn would probably receive a way higher score since technically she can dance rings around Jojo and I have to think that technique is worth more than performance at these things from a judging perspective.  Now Kalani could probably have done it but I'm also not sure Kalani was up to it in light of her injury.

[RCharter]

Seems to be an unpopular opinion, but I love watching Brynn dance.  She's gorgeous to watch.  I don't really buy this she's an emotionless robot who just happens to be naturally talented.  No, she can't perform like Maddie or Kehlani...though to be fair Maddie wasn't performing like Maddie until the last year or so.  Abby was constantly beating it over our heads what a great performer Maddie was since S1 and all I saw was constipated Maddie face.  It took getting her into the real professional dance world for her to finally grow into an amazing performer.  Anyway, point being Brynn has a ways to go on the performance end but I also don't think she's a blank page (like Kendall) either.  Plus she's such a gorgeous dancer that I don't ever care sometimes.   She has such amazing control.

 

Also yes, if Abby gave the solo to Jojo she might have have been able to better perform the solo from an emotional perspective.  But let's be real in that Brynn would probably receive a way higher score since technically she can dance rings around Jojo and I have to think that technique is worth more than performance at these things from a judging perspective.  Now Kalani could probably have done it but I'm also not sure Kalani was up to it in light of her injury.

I do think that Brynn is the better technical dancer.  And since its Abby, its all about who is going to get all those points and bring home a win for the team.  But for me, when you have solos that are based on three very strong characters, it may be better to give it to the girl that can really embody a character.  I think Jojo is really good at that.  And I don't watch the dances from a professional vantage point, its either a performance that makes me feel something....or it doesn't.  I feel something when some of the other girls perform, even if they aren't as technically proficient.....I just didn't feel anything from Brynn.  But I can recognize that she is a very good dancer.

[cali1981]

All that said, Maddie's solo was spectacular - I forgot about how horribly inappropriate and distasteful it was for a 13 year old to be dancing around w/ a bloody axe almost as soon as she started dancing cause she was just so good.

 

I have not been a fan of Maddie but I have to admit that her Lizzie Borden number was brilliant as much for her acting as her dancing. From the opening "crazy eyes", she completely sold the insanity of the piece all the the way through.  It may be the best routine that I've seen Maddie do.  I don't believe that the announcer actually gave her score after gasping at it but it must have been pretty close to perfect.

[spanana]

I do think that Brynn is the better technical dancer.  And since its Abby, its all about who is going to get all those points and bring home a win for the team.  But for me, when you have solos that are based on three very strong characters, it may be better to give it to the girl that can really embody a character.  I think Jojo is really good at that.  And I don't watch the dances from a professional vantage point, its either a performance that makes me feel something....or it doesn't.  I feel something when some of the other girls perform, even if they aren't as technically proficient.....I just didn't feel anything from Brynn.  But I can recognize that she is a very good dancer.

 

But IMO our subjective opinions about who we each personally enjoy watching isn't really the point.  Abby only cares about one thing, which is winning.  Which dancers are the most likely to win?  I assume the judges at these competitions are following some sort of rules and scoring rubric (no idea really and I get many are fake comps).  I love Jojo and I agree that she's a fierce performer, but the girl rarely wins in her own division when she gets solos because there are almost always better technicians.  I don't doubt that Abby would know that Jojo could probably perform the piece better, but that doesn't help her at all if Jojo can't score the points on the technical side.

[KaveDweller]

Most likely not. When I was in junior high, around 1962, we were assigned a report about someone we considered a "hero." I, of course, being the maverick, chose Lizzie Borden. I read a few books about her, but I think my mom (born in the 1920s) might have told me about the song first. So this goes a long, long way back. I don't think it's relevant to kids today, and not something their mothers (born in the 1970s?) would even know. 

 

Maybe it's a regional thing, because I was born in the 1980s and everyone I went to school with knew the song.

 

I thought they were making reference to the Jonesyee cult led by Jim Jones.  The kept referencing "drink the kool aid" which is a phrase derived from the method of death employed my most of the cult members when they committed mass suicide at the direction of their leader Jim Jones in the late 70s.

 

I think the moms didn't quite get that reference. I was recently talking about this was some colleagues about how casually so many people use that phrase without thinking that it is actually about a terrible tragedy.  And Jill thought Lizzie Borden was a Hollywood starlet, so she doesn't seem like the most educated person. I was surprised that Holly couldn't explain the meaning of cult though.

[Lemons]

 Abby was constantly beating it over our heads what a great performer Maddie was since S1 and all I saw was constipated Maddie face.  It took getting her into the real professional dance world for her to finally grow into an amazing performer. .

 

 

 

I think Maddie showed that she had "it" since the very beginning.  That "constipated" face was a typical competition face, not much different than a pageant face.  That's all that she was taught at that young age.  When she got out in the real world she proved that she could move on from that.  It also looks like someone else is choreographing lately.  It's more original than it used to be. 

[sofiah]

Seems to be an unpopular opinion, but I love watching Brynn dance.  She's gorgeous to watch.  I don't really buy this she's an emotionless robot who just happens to be naturally talented.  No, she can't perform like Maddie or Kehlani...though to be fair Maddie wasn't performing like Maddie until the last year or so.  Abby was constantly beating it over our heads what a great performer Maddie was since S1 and all I saw was constipated Maddie face.  It took getting her into the real professional dance world for her to finally grow into an amazing performer.  Anyway, point being Brynn has a ways to go on the performance end but I also don't think she's a blank page (like Kendall) either.  Plus she's such a gorgeous dancer that I don't ever care sometimes.   She has such amazing control.

 

 

I'm right there with you about Brynn.  I think she is pretty phenomenal, so good that  I don't mind the lack of "emotion".  Especially since she is not Kendall levels of emotion-less, she just comes off as young, like she can't yet quite access that deep angsty pained look yet.  I feel like she might be a little shy.  

 

Its kind of sad though - Brynn and Kalani got so good not only through their natural talent but also through the training they received at their previous studio. I worry about how they will continue to develop as dancers at the ALDC.  Maybe once the show is over they will go back to their previous studios, or just a different studio.  I feel like besides Maddie, the ALDC isn't exactly churning out extraordinary dancers.  I could be wrong though...

[Odelia]

Seems to be an unpopular opinion, but I love watching Brynn dance.  She's gorgeous to watch.  I don't really buy this she's an emotionless robot who just happens to be naturally talented.  No, she can't perform like Maddie or Kehlani...though to be fair Maddie wasn't performing like Maddie until the last year or so.  Abby was constantly beating it over our heads what a great performer Maddie was since S1 and all I saw was constipated Maddie face.  It took getting her into the real professional dance world for her to finally grow into an amazing performer.  Anyway, point being Brynn has a ways to go on the performance end but I also don't think she's a blank page (like Kendall) either.  Plus she's such a gorgeous dancer that I don't ever care sometimes.   She has such amazing control.

 

 

The thing is, when I watch Brynn dance I think "she's so flexible, wow she keeps her leg so steady, lovely technique", but when I watch Maddie I get engrossed in the performance, it's more like she's telling a story.. which is just more enjoyable? Also, Maddie has always had something like this, for example Maddie and Kenzie both performed "Cry", they were both pretty good at dancing, nice enough, but Maddie was the only one with emotion.

[Tikichick]

I suspect that not putting the girls on camera when their moms didn't show, and the producers' comments that the girls couldn't be on camera since the moms didn't show up was likely for genuine legal reasons.  I believe child performers are legally required to have a parent, guardian or legally authorized person on set when they are filming.  That is also probably the real reason Melissa was named as Kalani's guardian, to cover them legally for filming.  Will be interesting to see what happens as the Zieglers depart in light of the pretense of Kira's ultimatum.

[NextIteration]

Kendall received Natalie Wood because all she can feel or emote is pretty.  I think that Brynn got Black Dahlia so that she could receive an excessive makeup job that would hide her perceived lack of emotion/story telling ability (which was the intention previously meant for Kendall with the old woman latex makeup job).  Maddie received Lizzie Borden so that she could replicate the insane emotions in her Sia videos, and win.  I think that Abby meant to take Jim Jones' People's Temple and imbue it with 60s flower power, because the People's Temple started in San Francisco, and that city was known for it's drug culture - or maybe the Moonies?

 

I just can't with the moms anymore, and that stupid set up with the Mom's being gone and neither Abby nor Ashlee knowing that the girls were in the building was stupid,  Pretty sure that the girls are allowed to be on camera if Abby is there.  Production shenanigans.

 

I too thought that Maddie came off snotty in her talking head about pyramid, or just over it.

 

I thought that Maddie and Brynn's solos were both done very well, Maddie has improved in her turns, she seems to be the rare girl that moves from childhood through puberty without center problems, or maybe she was just away for that.  No longer do we see the weird dips in her à la secondes that I could never figure out before (whether they were intentional but I suspected it was more about trying to power through them due to lack of proper muscle development), she is now maintaining a 90 degree angle with them.  She is now of an age that she's using the proper muscles for them, and she's doing them well.  While Kendall danced better technically this week, she dances with so much tension... her shoulders were better but that tension just makes her face frozen in a smile.

 

The group dance was beautiful, as it should have been, this is their expertise.

Edited March 10, 2016 by NextIteration

[Absolom]

Abby can't substitute as legal guardian without legal paperwork.  But I do agree the whole thing was a plot line rather than an organic development.

[NextIteration]

Abby can't substitute as legal guardian without legal paperwork.  But I do agree the whole thing was a plot line rather than an organic development.

 

I agree, but I'm guessing that paperwork has been done.  At different times we've seen Abby with kids without their parents, at least Melissa's and Holly's in early seasons.  Perhaps it's more complex than that now, since we know that Kira has signed paperwork for Melissa to oversee Kalani's best interests.

Edited March 10, 2016 by NextIteration

[Clemgo3165]

I thought Ashlee knew the other girls were in the building? I'm sure she was there when the others came in and was told by the producers that they couldn't be on camera without the other Moms? She can't give permission for another person's child to be filmed.

[Tikichick]

The mom or legally authorized person doesn't have to be in the same room or on camera, merely on set.  It may well be that filming in LA has broadened the regulations that they are subject to.

 

I also expect that the girls were learning some of the choreo off camera, which they obviously always do since we see them repeatedly supposedly entering the studio after hearing what the dance is and then suddenly they are performing choreography, in unison.  Granted, it's sometimes not such a stretch since a great deal of their choreo has contained essentially similar combos time after time, but what's presented to the audience is very skewed.

[Absolom]

The laws in California are definitely different from Pennsylvania so what they did in earlier seasons no longer applies.  It was probably completely a production set up anyway.  They are running out of drama. 

[Rylee]

Seems to be an unpopular opinion, but I love watching Brynn dance.  She's gorgeous to watch.  I don't really buy this she's an emotionless robot who just happens to be naturally talented.  No, she can't perform like Maddie or Kehlani...though to be fair Maddie wasn't performing like Maddie until the last year or so.  Abby was constantly beating it over our heads what a great performer Maddie was since S1 and all I saw was constipated Maddie face.  It took getting her into the real professional dance world for her to finally grow into an amazing performer.  Anyway, point being Brynn has a ways to go on the performance end but I also don't think she's a blank page (like Kendall) either.  Plus she's such a gorgeous dancer that I don't ever care sometimes.   She has such amazing control.

 

Also yes, if Abby gave the solo to Jojo she might have have been able to better perform the solo from an emotional perspective.  But let's be real in that Brynn would probably receive a way higher score since technically she can dance rings around Jojo and I have to think that technique is worth more than performance at these things from a judging perspective.  Now Kalani could probably have done it but I'm also not sure Kalani was up to it in light of her injury.

 

I totally agree with you about Brynn. She is gorgeous to watch and I have seen her be joyous on stage. In fact, I can't recall anyone calling Brynn out for lack of emotion until Debbie Allen pointed it out. Sure, she has room to grow and improve, but so do the others. However, with Brynn's excellent technique, she just needs to mature and continue to learn, where as some of the other girls, (JoJo, Nia and Kendall) need to break bad habits and relearn the correct technique, in addition to continuing their training and maturing. 

 

Has anyone heard anything about Abby and the Zieglers getting a new show together? I'm sure I read that somewhere but I can't remember where or when I saw it. Although, I can't imagine anyone signing Abby to a contract at the present time. 

 

Maddie has outgrown this show. It served it's purpose and launched her career, she doesn't need it anymore. (I do worry about what will become of Mackenzie.)  As for the others, I'm sure great things could still come their way but I think if jobs were going to roll in based on their exposure from this show, it would have happened already, the way it has for Maddie. I'm not a fan of Melissa's but here is where she played the game right... she has always been the least confrontational mother on the show, (of course, she had far less to be upset about, where Maddie is concerned, anyway.) Working with children often means dealing with the parent, (Melissa rarely interferes,) and I can't imagine anyone would want to deal with "stage mother," Jill. If a child is immensely talented, they might deal with a lunatic like Jill but Kendall seems completely average and not worth putting up with Jill's ugly side.

 

I don't know how sincere she is, but I think the reason they are giving air time to the clips of Kendall giving little pep talks is to do damage control for her mean girl image.

[NextIteration]

Brynn's lack of anything is production shenanigans.  She's done better on a national basis with conventions with much more prestige than Maddie ever has (on the real circuit) as has Kalani.

[Lemons]

Brynn's lack of anything is production shenanigans.  She's done better on a national basis with conventions with much more prestige than Maddie ever has (on the real circuit) as has Kalani.

Doing well at competitions is not the same as being a great performer.  She has perfected the moves that competitions reward  perfectly.  She repeats them over and over like a machine.  Not her fault, but these schools tend to teach what wins in competitions.  She's not a good performer, production couldn't hide that if they wanted to.

[hatchetgirl]

I know the Lizzie song. I also know the Black Dahlia story well. I do a walking tour of downtown LA and go to hotel she stayed at and also the last hotel bar she was seen in. Brynn could not have done that dance without the hair. She blond and the Dahlia was known for her dark hair and love of wearing flowers in it.

Boy, Abby was really manic in this episode. It was kind of scary.

I hate to admit that i have hopes for McKenzie because she just goes with the flow. I think she's like prince Harry, happy to have the fame but glad to not have the pressure.

[tessa]

Being Maddie has had 6 yrs of "performing" on Dance Moms and this is only Brynn's first year of reality TV - I'm sure she'll improve. I have never been a Maddie fan but now actually enjoy her performances because she's had some outside training and has improved, but both Brynn and Chloe were more proficient dancers in my opinion - they both have the long limbs where each line is pronouced.

[Tasya]

Brynn is 12 years old and will be 13 this year. If she hasn't learned how to project significant emotion after dancing all of these years; frankly I don't think it will happen. Also, can we stop pretending that her mother hasn't had her out seeking fame for as many years as Dance Moms has been on the air? She's been in various little groups, auditioned on all of the relevant reality shows and does modeling and small screen parts. She isn't new to all of the performing in front of the cameras stuff, she's just new to being on the screen on a national basis. The girl is a beautiful technician, but I personally do not enjoy seeing her dance. It's not just the routines from her ALDC competitions. I've seen many of her dances on Youtube and most are exactly the same. Lots and lots of posing and extensions and flexible movements. I think for the vast majority of her routines you could put absolutely any song on and it wouldn't matter. Unlike with Maddie and the ALDC, I haven't seen her live and in person (West Coast vs East Coast), but maybe she does come off better if you get to see her right in front of you. 

 

I'm most curious about whether or not she auditioned for SYTYCD; I wonder if there was a clause that said you can't if you're doing something like Dance Moms. I saw a lot of people saying that the reason Maddie is judging is that she wouldn't stand a chance in competition against some of the other dancers but I disagree. Not because she's better than them, but because of the level of exposure that she's had. It would not be a fair competition at all; I think that if she entered she would run away with things. I think for that same reason SYTYCD has to have some sort of clause this season for these young dancers. Otherwise any of the girls who have developed a following through this show could completely skew the results. 

[Lemons]

People said the same thing about Maddie a few years ago. Brynn has time to improve. It's not like she's cursed with flat feet or poor turn out.

 

Maddie  was always a good performer underneath the cheesy routines given to her and her age.  The only people who were negative towards her were the other dance moms who mistakenly thought their kids were just as good if not better.  Maddie's potential was always right there. 

 

Being Maddie has had 6 yrs of "performing" on Dance Moms and this is only Brynn's first year of reality TV - I'm sure she'll improve. I have never been a Maddie fan but now actually enjoy her performances because she's had some outside training and has improved, but both Brynn and Chloe were more proficient dancers in my opinion - they both have the long limbs where each line is pronouced.

 

I don't think performing on Dance Mom's would help anyone improve.  If that's the case, Nia and Kendall should be a lot better than they are.  If anything the show held them back. 

 

I watched  the video of  Maddie and Brynn doing the dance together and I don't see Brynn being more "proficient."  They are both flexible, but Brynn is more flexible.  Otherwise they performed the very simple dance equally well. 

[RazzleberryPie]

I don't even know where or how to start with this doozy of an episode.

 

I did think it was awful of Ashlee to tell Brynn that being on the show was the worst thing she's ever had to done so she better work hard.

 

The moms were terrible at explaining what a cult was.

 

Last season I liked Jess, but she's totally lost me now. She's as bad as the rest of them.

 

Maddie looked surprised to hear that Lizzie Borden gave her mother 40 wacks. Do kids not learn the song anymore? She did a great job with the dance, especially the crazy eyes. I didn't get what all the fuss was about with her in past seasons, but she is impressing me these days.

Maddie has been homeschooled for several years now and does nothing but work and dance at the studio. She hasn't had normal interaction with kids in years. None of them have, so not surprised they don't learn playground chants or whatever. That said, this is the first season Maddie has really impressed me. Her technique and performance skills have drastically improved. She isn't falling out of turns or skipping allover the place in turns, and she has more expression than the 1) maddie grin and 2) maddie constipated look. Getting her away from Abby and having more outside training has been the best thing to happen to her dance skill wise.

 

Maybe it's a regional thing, because I was born in the 1980s and everyone I went to school with knew the song.

 

 

I think the moms didn't quite get that reference. I was recently talking about this was some colleagues about how casually so many people use that phrase without thinking that it is actually about a terrible tragedy.  And Jill thought Lizzie Borden was a Hollywood starlet, so she doesn't seem like the most educated person. I was surprised that Holly couldn't explain the meaning of cult though.

Jill is so desperate for Kendall to be a star, you could tell her Adolph Hitler was a starlet and she'd stick a moustache on Kendall. Holly, Holly, Holly, she disappoints me so much. She's the one who should know better and know how to explain more, but she's so star struck she's almost as bad as Jill. And the others. If anyone should say NO - NOT APPROPRIATE, you'd think it would be Holly, but nope.

 

Kendall received Natalie Wood because all she can feel or emote is pretty.  I think that Brynn got Black Dahlia so that she could receive an excessive makeup job that would hide her perceived lack of emotion/story telling ability (which was the intention previously meant for Kendall with the old woman latex makeup job).  Maddie received Lizzie Borden so that she could replicate the insane emotions in her Sia videos, and win.  I think that Abby meant to take Jim Jones' People's Temple and imbue it with 60s flower power, because the People's Temple started in San Francisco, and that city was known for it's drug culture - or maybe the Moonies?

 

I just can't with the moms anymore, and that stupid set up with the Mom's being gone and neither Abby nor Ashlee knowing that the girls were in the building was stupid,  Pretty sure that the girls are allowed to be on camera if Abby is there.  Production shenanigans.

 

I too thought that Maddie came off snotty in her talking head about pyramid, or just over it.

 

I thought that Maddie and Brynn's solos were both done very well, Maddie has improved in her turns, she seems to be the rare girl that moves from childhood through puberty without center problems, or maybe she was just away for that.  No longer do we see the weird dips in her à la secondes that I could never figure out before (whether they were intentional but I suspected it was more about trying to power through them due to lack of proper muscle development), she is now maintaining a 90 degree angle with them.  She is now of an age that she's using the proper muscles for them, and she's doing them well.  While Kendall danced better technically this week, she dances with so much tension... her shoulders were better but that tension just makes her face frozen in a smile.

 

The group dance was beautiful, as it should have been, this is their expertise.

*APPLAUDS EVERY WORD OF THIS* Spot on assessment of casting and technique. 

 

I want to add that I think there was some Abby passive aggressiveness in the 'casting' - Maddie/Lizzie killing her parents - some suggestion at Abby's anger at Melissa? Kendall/Natalie Wood - Natalie's mother has been accused of literally pimping her out to producers as a child for roles. I hope Jill woudn't go that far, but wouldn't shock me if she or Melissa would if asked. Brynn as Black Dahlia - Abby likes her, so give her a recognizable role. Everyone else = just fillers, so make them random, unnamed cult people.

 

BTW - the only Lizzie Hollywood connection is the few TV movies made about her and this recent Christina Ricci series. Natalie most likely wasn't murdered, but under the influence and fell off a boat. Black Dahlia - murdered actress/prostitute, so appropriate for children. Same for Manson/Jim Jones cult members. Keep in mind all of those victims did not die, and have family members living, so extra, super tacky to make a kiddie dance about them.

 

Abby really missed the spot in not casting Jojo as JonBenet or Nicole Simpson, since we're being obnoxiously tacky and inappropriate. 

Doing well at competitions is not the same as being a great performer.  She has perfected the moves that competitions reward  perfectly.  She repeats them over and over like a machine.  Not her fault, but these schools tend to teach what wins in competitions.  She's not a good performer, production couldn't hide that if they wanted to.

That's exactly how I would've described Maddie until this year - when she got away from Abby. She had 80% of the same moves in every single lyrical routine.

[Lemons]

I don't even know where or how to start with this doozy of an episode.

Maddie has been homeschooled for several years now and does nothing but work and dance at the studio. She hasn't had normal interaction with kids in years. None of them have, so not surprised they don't learn playground chants or whatever. That said, this is the first season Maddie has really impressed me. Her technique and performance skills have drastically improved. She isn't falling out of turns or skipping allover the place in turns, and she has more expression than the 1) maddie grin and 2) maddie constipated look. Getting her away from Abby and having more outside training has been the best thing to happen to her dance skill wise.

 

 

I never understood people criticizing Maddie or any of the others for falling out of their turns or skipping during turns when they were 9 or 10 years old.  That's normal!  At least in training where they don't spend hours learning moves only.  Getting away from Abby definitely proved that she did have the "it" that's needed to be a performer. 

[Chalby]

The "kool aid" reference is clearly about Jonestown.  The costuming was probably more Manson family, or any other 60's cult.  But I agree with the poster that Abby probably doesn't have much idea what she is talking about.  I suspect there was maybe a quick look at a wikipedia page about cults and that was that.

I agree. Even the way the girls looked at Abby when she was explaining Lizzy Borden made sense because the nursery rhyme has nothing to do with reality. I think the 40 and 41 whacks were chosen for the rhyming ability, rather than on fact. Before Abby starts to explain each theme, she really needs to research and give factual evidence. I also agree the moms did a horrible job explaining cults. When Mackenzie said she assumed it was about 'bad people', how hard was it to explain that these people were generally decent, but they were emotionally lost and looking for direction/guidance.

[Chalby]

Most likely not. When I was in junior high, around 1962, we were assigned a report about someone we considered a "hero." I, of course, being the maverick, chose Lizzie Borden.

Sorry for my ignorance, but why on earth did you view Lizzie Borden as a 'hero'?

[Tasya]

 

Maddie has improved immensely, and that is great. I just don't see why people believe that Brynn is already doomed as a dancer when she's 12(!?) and has great technique. Yeah, her mom is terrible, but that's besides the point.

 

I don't know that Brynn is doomed, but I would think that she's less likely to improve in her deficient area at this point. Maddie improved her technique after getting away from Abby's school, where the teaching is lacking. What then is Brynn's excuse for not having learned to emote at this point when she is in a much more superior school? I don't understand the thought process that says coming into the Dance Moms arena, where we all acknowledge her skills will suffer and she will not be as well taught, is going to help her improve. I subscribe to the school of thought that you can only get so good at things before natural talent comes into play. For instance, no amount of training and schooling, no matter where it was received would have made Nia into a dancer as good as Maddie, Chloe, Kalani or Brynn. Nia just doesn't have the natural skillset. It's possible and I would say probable even, given Brynn's true dance studio, her mother's past efforts in Hollywood, that she will simply not be a great performer. I'm not sure if i'll continue to watch Dance Moms after the Ziegler girls leave, but I'll be interested to see comments and videos to see if Brynn takes off because of this show.