S03.E14: Final Decision, Pt. 2

Aethera · March 2, 2016

Folks, I know this feels like the Finale, but we still have 6 Months Later coming up. Let's avoid the social media discussion, please. I'm going to go through and Spoiler Tag all mentions of social media, but going forward, take it to the Social Media thread.

Neurochick · March 2, 2016

David to Ashley: Do you want this? Showing her a picture frame.

Ashley: Ummmmmmm, Duuuuuhhhhh, I don't knooooow...staring blankly at frame...

David:Never mind

Make a decision, woman!

For those that said David was too needy,came on too strong, in love with love, looking for the fairy tale, please. David didn't have a chance. Ashley decided the moment she walked through the doors and down the aisle that she wasn't gonna have any of that. Before he even had a chance to open his mouth. There is nothing she could possibly say that will make anyone think that she was "giving it her all". Eat shit, Ash.

I agree and I don't get this "David is scary" talk. I really don't get it, explain it to me please. I've been on this earth over 50 years and that man didn't scare me one bit. To me he came off as a harmless lug of a man.

To me, David is a male version of Vanessa, both of them have an idealized concept of marriage, both of them want to be married but can't seem to get that being married means having to marry an actual person.

I also don't get the phrase "anger issues." Anger is a normal emotion, if someone doesn't get angry there's something wrong with them. What are anger issues?

Ashley wasn't scared of David, she didn't like how he looked from the first time she saw him. If she were attracted to him, she wouldn't have given two shits about text gate.

zooey · March 2, 2016

All of those things have been pointed out. The men haven't gotten off Scott free. There issues are just way less troublesome on the whole and just easier to deal with as a viewer. At the worst, you have a guy who REALLY wants his marriage to work, a guy working extra hard to show he's committed to this process and a guy who has a hard time talking to a weirdo like Sam. Meanwhile, you had two women that barely tried to make the marriages work and another women who let her insecurities harm a good thing she has going (although not permanently)

True, but looking at these discussion threads, I can't help but notice how the bulk of the criticism is directed at the women. I mean, I understand that they have issues and that they're probably more prominent from a viewer's standpoint but the whole concept of the show is that it's a partnership and each person does contribute to the success or demise of "the relationship". And yes, people draw from personal experiences and tend to favor one participant over the other, but sometimes the amount of animosity, or dare I say hatred, towards some of the participants come off a bit lopsided.

About Sam looking all cool and collected when they met up in the end: I don't blame her for that. I think she had some time to cool off and think things over, and she didn't want to show her hurt again. What was she supposed to do? Sob and beg on her knees for him to take her back? I think saying she was okay was the right thing to do. So I'm not sure why people criticize her for that. I'm not a fan of hers, I think she was terrible most of the time, and I agree that everything was always about her and her alone, but I don't think she's just all evil.

I totally agree. Even if it was just to save face, you have to understand that it was her attempt at closing the experiment with some dignity. That last conversation though reminded me of how they were during the first week. They both had their guards up, tempers in check and were very diplomatic in their choice of words. It was interesting how they easily fell back into paying lip service when they were probably bristling with anger in the aftermath of decision day.

Evil Queen · March 2, 2016

Thank you.

All these budding Sam apologists are astounding! For weeks we've watched her treat Neil like the modern day version of The Elephant man; she couldn't even manage her own heinous behavior long enough to treat him like a worthy human being. And that's just what we SAW ON CAMERA.

When decision day loomed and she made this miraculous "evolution," I was hip to her sneaky bullshit immediately. It was all about her saving face, not wanting to be embarrassed on national TV, all her mea culpas about "how she would deserve divorce" were just stealth manipulations to get Neil to stay on as her whipping boy. She doesn't even LIKE Neil. She thought she was such hot shit in her horrible hot shorts, and that Neil was the "lucky one" to be with her. Which shows me that most of her life she's been surrounding by people who tolerate, enable, or cheer her on in whatever horrible personality disorder she has. (that can't be fixed) Remember the way she snapped at her mother? Yeah.

I don't take delight it another's pain, especially when it's authentic and understandable; I'm usually pretty empathetic. What I can't stand, have no time for, are manipulative, narcissistic bullies; I've come across more than a few in my time. They're clueless and dangerous at the same time.

Sam's "meltdown" was all about herself, her ego, her inability to control a person and/or situation.

And bitch had it coming.

Right on!!!! I've said it before about having to growing up with a mother that is a narcissistic bully and I spotted it in Sam right off the bat. As well as all the little games and guilt trips they like to play when things don't go their way and they want you to feel bad for them.

I agree and I don't get this "David is scary" talk. I really don't get it, explain it to me please. I've been on this earth over 50 years and that man didn't scare me one bit. To me he came off as a harmless lug of a man.

To me, David is a male version of Vanessa, both of them have an idealized concept of marriage, both of them want to be married but can't seem to get that being married means having to marry an actual person.

I also don't get the phrase "anger issues." Anger is a normal emotion, if someone doesn't get angry there's something wrong with them. What are anger issues?

Ashley wasn't scared of David, she didn't like how he looked from the first time she saw him. If she were attracted to him, she wouldn't have given two shits about text gate.

I am trying to figure out the David is scary stuff or has anger issues myself. I don't see it at all. He didn't show anything during the show to come off that way. Even though I wouldn't have blamed him if he got angry over her lack of communication during the whole time. Many people would have I bet. Ashley is just superficial and all about what someone looks like. She checked out when she say he wasn't her type and that was the end of it. IF she had attempted to be friendly and not checked out, blank and cold than I would bet comments on her would be a whole lot different but she couldn't even do that. She could have said from the get go to him that she wasn't attracted to him but could they be friends but she didn't do that or anything else. So whatever. Girl needs to get over herself and get a clue.

David to Ashley: Do you want this? Showing her a picture frame.

Ashley: Ummmmmmm, Duuuuuhhhhh, I don't knooooow...staring blankly at frame...

David:Never mind

Make a decision, woman!

For those that said David was too needy,came on too strong, in love with love, looking for the fairy tale, please. David didn't have a chance. Ashley decided the moment she walked through the doors and down the aisle that she wasn't gonna have any of that. Before he even had a chance to open his mouth. There is nothing she could possibly say that will make anyone think that she was "giving it her all". Eat shit, Ash.

Sadly on top of it you have the "experts" constantly telling him to keep trying, keep doing this or that. So what was David going to do? Not listen to them? So he comes off to some to strong, to needy , etc because he wasn't told from the get go she wasn't in to him. He probably assumed she just needed the time to warm up since they were strangers and couldn't read that she really wasn't into him. Obviously the "experts" didn't either right away because they pushed him to do whatever. When really they should have told her to quit her crap. The second she finally admitted to one of them that should have been it. I do agree with those that say he has his idea of what marriage is just like Vanessa and it isn't always the way one pictures it in the end.

Snarklepuss · March 2, 2016

I thought Sam's issue with Neil is that he was more open and engaging with her off-camera (maybe to the point of challenging her on stuff) but then would be extremely neutral or at least very diplomatic on camera. She said she liked the "real" version better. So I dont think the issue was that he was an awful person offscreen.

I thought there was more to it than that based on some of what Sam said in that one episode. She didn't make him sound like he was awful off screen, at least not in her opinion - In fact, just the contrary, she loved whatever it was. She made it sound like not only was he more challenging to her off screen but that he was not as politically correct or something - It was something Sam liked about him but knew the public wouldn't like, like maybe he swears like a sailor, cracks racist jokes, calls women by sexist names, or farts incessantly to get her goat, who knows? It would be something Sam would think was totally cool and fabulous (ugh) and the mark of a "real man" as opposed to a "pussy" but something that would make the audience see him more negatively. THAT'S what I meant about what bugged her about his getting off Scot Free. She didn't consider how the public might view some of her behavior and knew that it might not make her look so good in comparison. Plus the way she was goading him about it made me think she thought he was intentionally hiding something about himself that would hurt his public image.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Snarklepuss

zooey · March 2, 2016

Kevin Frazier and the three other experts aren't showing up for the reunion! Is it only Dr. Pepper there.

What gives??? It is going to be that boring?

Lol. I had the same reaction. I have come to expect Kevin Frazier to host the reunion show--- he comes off as a fan, someone who's invested in the show just like the average viewer. It's also nice to have a third party ask the questions for a change instead of the experts moderating the show. Makes me wonder how big a disaster this season is for Dr. Pepper to be hosting it. Will the rest of the experts be there? How come we don't get all the couples in one room? Does the production have issues regarding its budget, venue, or schedules? Gosh, can't wait for all this to be over.

girlplease · March 2, 2016

For those that said David was too needy,came on too strong, in love with love, looking for the fairy tale, please. David didn't have a chance. Ashley decided the moment she walked through the doors and down the aisle that she wasn't gonna have any of that. Before he even had a chance to open his mouth.

In the same clip, though, they showed David, *still standing at the altar*, telling someone "oh yeah, she's great to hang out with, super easy to talk to" or something along those lines. They couldn't have said much more than "I do" to each other at that point! He needed to slow his roll even on day one - that's what's coming off as scary (to me, anyway). He only got more delusional as the show went on.

I liked Neil all right at the beginning of the season, but by the end, he seemed just as withdrawn as Ashley. I didn't see any of his vaunted quirkiness - and whatever they mistook for quirkiness in Sam was just brattiness.

Tres and Vanessa, sadly, are boring to me. I don't think they'll make the six month mark - Tres bit off more than he can chew with this "experiment", and doesn't seem ready for marriage. It seems like he wants to be ready for it, at times, and goes through the motions, but he gets a scared look in his eyes whenever things aren't light and easy. Vanessa knows what she wants, but seems a bit young, too - and I think being matched with someone who's ambivalent about marriage really drew out her insecurities. Poor girl. Hopefully they break up and she finds a better match.

Edited March 2, 2016 by girlplease

psychoticstate · March 2, 2016

You know what Neil did IMO? he gave Sam a taste of her own medicine and she couldn't deal. Sam can dish out the shit, but she can't take it.

I was hoping David would pull a, "My dear, I don't give a damn," (what Rhett says in the book) on Ashley.

Every time Ashley tries to justify her actions with the "social media" whatever, I want one of the experts to play the clip of Ashley in the ladies room ON HER WEDDING DAY saying, "I don't like him." From day one that's how Ashley felt and her feelings never changed. So she needs to stop with the social media/I can't trust him bullshit. I'm not buying it.

This is what always stumps me with Ashley. I could get on board with being disappointed initially by someone's physical appearance (i.e., David didn't match Ashley's usual type of dark hair and dark eyes) but to say flat out you don't like them minutes after meeting them? Not only is it completely childish and immature but you don't even know the person! How can you say you don't like them?

It's pretty evident that Ashley decided she didn't like David from go and nothing was going to change that. She didn't try to get to know him, she didn't involve her family and friends with him, she was done from the vows, which is sad. And very unfair.

I'll throw David a bit of a bone for his video diaries immediately after the dumping. It may seem creepy to some but I think he was upset and defeated and he immediately went to a mental space of "Screw her, I'll find someone and that will be the right person." It's similar IMO to someone who immediately starts dating after a break up but David had the unfortunate "reality" of recording his thoughts. I did notice that when they returned to the rental house David wasn't wearing his wedding ring. Not that I blame him. But to me it's all basically the same - - he was angry and upset, he probably took his ring off immediately as another way of showing "screw her, I'm moving on."

I hate to admit it but I felt bad for Sam. I do think her emotions themselves were genuine. It's hard to say because of the 6 week timeline whether or not she was truly falling in love or like with Neil, or whether it was the looming deadline that was affecting her actions, but I suspect that she probably believed that since Neil had expressed his strong commitment to the "experiment" to the "experts", and his grandparents' arranged marriage, that she probably would be okay, given that the last 2 weeks were good. Unfortunately she couldn't undo the first 3-4 weeks and that's what seemed to have guided Neil's decision. I can't say that I blame him but I'm surprised. I really thought he would stay in.

As far as her response to him the next day, again, I see that as someone who is desperately trying to protect feelings and appear as though they are fine (when they aren't) and she was over it, so to speak. I felt that she was very hurt because I do think she had changed and grown during those weeks with Neil. I think she was being truthful when she said that she didn't know what she wanted until she met Neil, although maybe a more honest statement would have been that she didn't know what she wanted until she GOT TO KNOW Neil. I do think he was probably a good match for her - - she's manic and over the top and he's much more calming and precise.

I think this is again where the experts fail. Maybe the experts should be at the wedding reception to help guide conversations for people like David and Ashley and San and Neil. Tres and Vanessa were immediately attracted to each other so they were fine initially. I don't know how long the honeymoons were but maybe they should only be long weekends and again, maybe the "experts" should be present so that the couples are basically in a marriage boot camp. After all, they are virtual strangers at that point. They know next to nothing about each other and when you have someone like Ashley who is giving nothing, you have nothing to build from. This is where the experts guiding conversations and discussions would help. Tell the couples to discuss their families, histories, whatever. Heck, instead of sending each of the couples on their separate honeymoons, send them all together to this "boot camp" and have them get to know each other. It may make things easier for them, knowing the other couples.

I guess what I'm saying is that the experts need to be more present than they are. Maybe if they were, Ashley's initial "dislike" of David could have been addressed and dealt with immediately and Sam's personality could have been toned down or understood so that she wasn't insulting Neil, kicking him out of her house, not giving him a key or closet space, etc. How COULD those relationships have started off well or even survived otherwise?

Unless they change up the formula or procedure, I don't see how they will have a better success rate.

girlplease · March 2, 2016

I think this is again where the experts fail. Maybe the experts should be at the wedding reception to help guide conversations for people like David and Ashley and San and Neil. Tres and Vanessa were immediately attracted to each other so they were fine initially. I don't know how long the honeymoons were but maybe they should only be long weekends and again, maybe the "experts" should be present so that the couples are basically in a marriage boot camp. After all, they are virtual strangers at that point. They know next to nothing about each other and when you have someone like Ashley who is giving nothing, you have nothing to build from. This is where the experts guiding conversations and discussions would help. Tell the couples to discuss their families, histories, whatever. Heck, instead of sending each of the couples on their separate honeymoons, send them all together to this "boot camp" and have them get to know each other. It may make things easier for them, knowing the other couples.

I like this idea.

Leanne · March 2, 2016

Thank you.

All these budding Sam apologists are astounding! For weeks we've watched her treat Neil like the modern day version of The Elephant man; she couldn't even manage her own heinous behavior long enough to treat him like a worthy human being. And that's just what we SAW ON CAMERA.

When decision day loomed and she made this miraculous "evolution," I was hip to her sneaky bullshit immediately. It was all about her saving face, not wanting to be embarrassed on national TV, all her mea culpas about "how she would deserve divorce" were just stealth manipulations to get Neil to stay on as her whipping boy. She doesn't even LIKE Neil. She thought she was such hot shit in her horrible hot shorts, and that Neil was the "lucky one" to be with her. Which shows me that most of her life she's been surrounding by people who tolerate, enable, or cheer her on in whatever horrible personality disorder she has. (that can't be fixed) Remember the way she snapped at her mother? Yeah.

I don't take delight it another's pain, especially when it's authentic and understandable; I'm usually pretty empathetic. What I can't stand, have no time for, are manipulative, narcissistic bullies; I've come across more than a few in my time. They're clueless and dangerous at the same time.

Sam's "meltdown" was all about herself, her ego, her inability to control a person and/or situation.

And bitch had it coming.

Love it and I agree wholeheartedly! And I LOL'd at your comment on the shorts! Ha! Edited March 2, 2016 by Leanne

kira28 · March 2, 2016

I personally loved how Neil handled his decision. Sam deserved it. She was such a bitch to him the entire time and tried to save face the last week and a half and was a total phony about it. She seemed to ENJOY hurting Neil and making him uncomfortable. She has no concept of how she comes off. She thinks she's a nice person? honey you are the total opposite of a nice person. Your roommate is afraid of you!! I don't blame Neil one bit. He had enough. Sam doesn't have much going for her to begin with (she isn't very attractive, she looks like she doesn't bathe often, she has a HORRIBLE personality and thinks she's just so cute) and to act like a narcissistic bitch isn't going to make people stick around. I'm not sure who/what type of guy you could match her up with that would enjoy her company. Her crocodile tears at the end were laughable.

I dated a "david", granted I was 17 at the time. This guy just wanted to settle down and get married. He had recently been dumped by his fiancé (she was 18 years old, he was 19 at the time) when I met him and he was instantly smitten with me. A few days after meeting me he was telling me I was his best friend, a few months into dating he was planning a life with me. Talking about how we would buy a house (I was still in high school!) get married when I graduated etc. He was very intense and emotional (much like David) and I think he just had this void at his side where he wanted a life long partner to be. Not to say he didn't care about me ( I was into him, loved him and didn't treat him indifferently as Ashley treated David) but I think ANY woman would have done. He had this idealized version of who he thought I was and didn't really try to get to know ME. Any time I didn't match his ideal version of wifey material he didn't want to hear it (if I had reservations about moving so quickly toward marriage, if my expectations of dating didn't match his) When he and I broke up (because he was too needy and intense, he immediately within weeks of our break up found the next love of his life and got engaged to her a few months later. I think David just wants a ready made wife, any attractive woman that his buddies would approve of would fit his "ideal" and it really doesn't matter how she treats him, how she acts, David just wants a partner and pretty much anyone will do as long as they are breathing lol. Ashley gave him no encouragement, no sign that she was even listening to him, she refused to engage with him at all. Yet he still thought she was so wonderful. Blah. I did enjoy him turning around and dismissively leaving her when she wanted to talk to him. Go David!

Tres and Vanessa didn't surprise me. I doubt they will still be married at the six month mark. I think Tres will drift back to the single party life and Vanessa will just exhaust herself from worrying about Tres leaving her. Vanessa does not seem like much fun.

Snarklepuss · March 2, 2016

Just because I don't like how Neil phrased his divorce decision and I can see his faults as well as Sam's doesn't make me a "budding Sam apologist."

ITA, me too. Also, just because Sam has narcissistic tendencies doesn't mean she couldn't actually have been blindsided by her own emotions and fallen for Neil. That doesn't make her a better person, it just makes her human. And being human is no great shakes because all humans are flawed and capable of some mean, nasty shit. I find it ironic that Sam thinks she's had this great epiphany because of Neil and has become so much better a person. It just means she is human, but being human doesn't somehow make her better than anyone or even better than she was before. Any fool or idiot can fall for someone, even a narcissist. In fact, when in the grip of their emotions I think they are even more irrational than most people because they are not used to being completely out of control of their feelings. Sometimes the biggest cons are the biggest marks in spite of themselves. Happens all the time.

allthelight · March 2, 2016

I'm not an Ashley apologist - in fact, she came off horrible in the previews - but I actually liked what she said in this episodes. Sometimes you meet people you don't click with, they just rub you the wrong way. And I think with David, it was like that for her. Him being pushy and tone death didn't help either. I'm not defending Ashley - her getting worked up about the texting was really ridiculous, but in principle I get where she is coming from. I really don't think it's about physical attraction.

Neil - was he actually grinning and trying to hide it, when Sam talked to him the day after decision day? Anyway, I get why he wants a divorce but I don't like the delivery. And even though she's a bully, I truly felt sorry for Sam during the grandmother scene. You could see how desperately lonely she feels (although she shouldn't - some people would give anything for a long friendship like that with Sammy). I'm not sure Neil's decision was based only on the first two weeks. I think even the 'nicer' Sam was probably not completely to his taste at that time.

Vanessa and Tres - puh. I like them. But I don't know. They have their sweet moments but ultimately they are probably not a good fit. I truly believe Tres wants to be married but the marriage with Vanessa has been wearing him down. You can see it in his body language. I'm not saying she's a horrible person, but very different from him. He would have been happier with a more laid back and outgoing person. Someone who enjoys having a lot of friends over, who occasionally would visit a club with him, etc. I feel like he's really giving it a try because on paper she's perfect - warm enough, young, pretty, good job, classy, liked by his family. But I don't think it's making him happy. He's changed a lot and putting up that 'husband mentality' front for your wife which ultimately requires you to change your whole character won't make anyone happy. He looks exhausted and insecure, albeit in a different way from Vanessa.

Note to the experts: same skin color and being abandoned at young age are not good enough reasons to match two people.

petalfrog · March 2, 2016

I had three thoughts about this show:

1. Why doesn't David wear undershirts under button-up shirts. He needs some white hanes or another button done up (or both). It's such a sloppy, unattractive look.

2. Was the house that Neil and Sam met at at the end the same one they were renting? It looked GORGEOUS. That sitting area looking into a lush backyard? I want it. Neil looked pretty settled in so I assume he's not planning on moving out. If he is, can someone please get me the name of the realtor. Thanks :)

3. I was amused that Sam had straightened her hair for her post-breakup meeting with Neil. She put some definite effort into looking cute but also casual (with her glasses). Definitely post-breakup behavior. Then she got all flustered looking for her keys... she was trying so hard to appear nonchalant and it wasn't working.

Leanne · March 2, 2016

I also am kind of finding it odd that people think Neil should have given Sam a heads up on his decision. Sam didn't give Neil any common courtesies through the whole 'process'. And he was pretty clear he was analyzing it and undecided right to the end and I believe him. If people should get warnings on everything maybe then Sam should have sat him down at the beginning and given him a heads up that she is a nasty bully so she didn't blindside him? Nah; he didn't owe her anything after how awful she was and her "turn around" with a week and half left was totally insincere. I have seen more convincing preformances at an elementary school play than what Sam gave. It smacked of being what her favourite word to throw around is: Fake! And I had an issue with her behaviour when they met to talk it out later because she acted like Neil was out to lunch for hesitantly wondering if she was ok. She brushed it off sort of like "why wouldn't I be?" Like he was crazy. Um I dunno cuz last time I saw you you ran out of the studio and crouched by a curb sobbing and yelling like your world was over while pepper Schwartz had to console you? I would agree that Sam was doing that act to maintain some dignity IF she were any other normal person. But because she is Sam her behaviour at that meeting was to try and gain the upper hand back by acting breezy like she didn't ever care and that Neil was nuts for thinking she would be upset still. It was another little bullish!t power play move by her. she thinks she is slick but the look on her face and barely concealed anger always comes through. Like I said earlier I saw a flash of absolute rage go through her eyes (just in the eyes) right after Neil said he chose divorce and it was a window into her soul. I saw everything I needed to right there to make up my mind about her once and for all . And people like her just don't have the emotional capacity to change in my experience.

I also agree with the few people that think Neil's decision was edited to make it seem a bit colder and more clinical than it actually was. Although I have no issue with how he did it (if it wasn't edited),personally.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Leanne

Liberty · March 2, 2016

...I was amused that Sam had straightened her hair for her post-breakup meeting with Neil. She put some definite effort into looking cute but also casual (with her glasses). Definitely post-breakup behavior. Then she got all flustered looking for her keys... she was trying so hard to appear nonchalant and it wasn't working.

So Samantha's character was going to Costa Rica the next day. Guessing she wanted to make the impression that the trip was arranged after the "Final Decision" show and she was strong, independent and moving forward. Actually it seems arranging a trip like that 1 day or 1 1/2 days before leaving would be more expensive than her character would like to spend. Along with the flight and lodging she would have to arrange for the care of her dog and sugar gliders, and good pet care is not easy to arrange last minute.

Crazy Bird Lady · March 2, 2016

I think it's likely that when Neil stated he was "committed" to divorce, it was a product of creative editing.

But there's also a chance it's exactly what Neil said. Calm, quiet men usually never 'vent' their anger - leaving a lot of hostility to bubble up inside them.

I'm pretty sure the last straw for Neil was when Sam insisted on moving out of the house they'd gotten together, into Sam's apartment shared with her roommate where Neil wasn't even given a key or a closet for his things!

sasunnach · March 2, 2016

Oh man! I'll lay my cards on the table: I am completely team Neal. I think he has tons of personality, and I find him both interesting and funny - well, as much as one can garner from a two month serial. And I get that YMMV, so others are less than enthused by him. But I am just really surprised by some people's read on his behavior, so much so that even though the show's basically over (thank goodness...), I wanted to put it out there.

But no, Neal is not Sheldon. Not at all. But people kept bringing up the comparison, so I revisited the show, and then enlisted the help of a bud - who's a big fan of the show - to see if he saw the resemblance. He thought there were a few small traits that they shared (ie. lack of blinking), and they both work in more technical professions, but I don't know if there's much more. Moreover, the biggest comparison point seems to be that both are oblivious, or unaware, to human emotions- both theirs and others. And that? That I think is completely untrue of Neal.

I'd even go as far as to say he is one of the savviest participants we have seen so far. Who else, from any season, trumps him?
Neal wasn't hiding his emotions. But in order to get him, you have to pay attention. I could be half dead, and I could still gauge where David was, because he is that much of an extravert. But not Neal. You have to look at him, watch his expressions. Listen. You have to get it in context, like the analysis of a great novel. But it was there. He wasn't Ashley. He was emoting; he just did it with subtlety. And there were times when he wasn't so subtle. And, I would expect someone living with him every day (yeah, I know they really weren't though for chunks of time) would get even more than I am watching an edited hour a week. To me, it gives strength to those saying Sam is a narcissist, because I'd think you have to willfully ignore him to not get him somewhat. Even when he expresses similar language, you can tell, for instance, how he's feeling, like when his voice goes up when he's making a statement that sounds like a question. His face is expressive. His words are expressive. He's not choosing them carefully because he is lying, or because he is playing to the camera. He's choosing his words carefully because that's who he is. Introverts in general do that, and I think his particular subset does that especially. None of us know really, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt over others.

He is absolutely not passive aggressive. In order to be that way, you have to be..well... aggressive. And someone just said it above me, he's just more passive. Just like Ryan was more aggressive. We all get angry. It's going to come out one way or another. I think a better example of passive aggressiveness would be Vanessa, actually. She retracts until she is really upset, but when she does speak her mind it's almost antagonistic. I saw that right before she left for her place. I actually saw that in Jessica too. She was not a shy violet. And I've found that a passive aggressive person w/ an aggressive person is the worst combination (which partially explains Ryan and Jessica's volatility).

But back to Neal. Sure he was at times moody, and sullen; he's human. But he's also bent over backwards to try to accommodate Sam as best he could. Heck, he was accommodating his wife before he met her by shaving the beard, which to me doesn't signify a desire to get attention, since those beards are kind of a dime a dozen where I'm at (NE corridor). He even started being a bit more profane on camera...for what I thought were pretty small things. But Sam cited that as an example of how he was fake, so he amended his behavior.

If people aren't joned on him because he's not alpha male, or the typical guy's guy, then, well, we all have our preferences. But just because he's a quieter, introspective, easy going man, who eschews confrontation and tries to see things positively, does not make the man defective, or in need of any particular extra training or transformation. What he needed was someone who could appreciate those qualities.

And for me that was the saddest part of the whole pairing. Even if I thought the best of Sam, it seemed she was completely clueless about learning who Neal was. On their honeymoon, Neal figured out the experts wanted them to learn from their divergent personalities, but even after a few weeks she was still talking about how they were "good people". She just didn't seem to have the depth he was looking for, and in order for them to work, he was always going to have to manage her, and sublimate some vital parts of who he is.

Don't get me wrong, he comes off as odd in social settings. But on a one to one level, he's attuned to the other person- if s/he lets him. And he is not unaware of what is required in a social setting. To dip back, I don't think Neal has vulgar friends only. Knowing who Sam was, it appears he chose his more gregarious peops. And at the weddings, all the grooms greeted the families. But it was probably more stressful for Neal- so noticeable it compelled Sam's mom to give a little pep talk to him. I do not think Sheldon, as he is depicted on the show, would do that.

To reference pop psych a bit, Neal - apart from his job - seems to be almost a stereotypical INFP (MBTI). They aren't as common in the populace, and can come off as quiet, weird, and/or odd. But they are deeply passionate. And the interesting thing abut that type? They will keep plugging away at a relationship, trying to make things work long after everyone else has given up. The thing with them, though? When they are done, they are done.

So while his comment - if it wasn't tweaked - surprised me, it didn't strike me as cruel. It seemed more resolute; he gave it considerable thought, and there was no room for the experts or anyone else to sway him. So I hope next week's preview is just a misleading teaser.

Oh well, off the team Neal soapbox. :)

And btw, I was always under the impression that you are not supposed to talk about what you will do on decision day, and if you do, only in the most hypothetical terms. So I thought that both Sam, and Vanessa for that matter, were being unfair in trying to get an early decision; that it's just the mechanics of the show.

Pepper Mostly · March 2, 2016

I also am kind of finding it odd that people think Neil should have given Sam a heads up on his decision. Sam didn't give Neil any common courtesies through the whole 'process'. And he was pretty clear he was analyzing it and undecided right to the end and I believe him. If people should get warnings on everything maybe then Sam should have sat him down at the beginning and given him a heads up that she is a nasty bully so she didn't blindside him? Nah; he didn't owe her anything after how awful she was and her "turn around" with a week and half left was totally insincere. I have seen more convincing preformances at an elementary school play than what Sam gave. It smacked of being what her favourite word to throw around is: Fake! And I had an issue with her behaviour when they met to talk it out later because she acted like Neil was out to lunch for hesitantly wondering if she was ok. She brushed it off sort of like "why wouldn't I be?" Like he was crazy. Um I dunno cuz last time I saw you you ran out of the studio and crouched by a curb sobbing and yelling like your world was over while pepper Schwartz had to console you? I would agree that Sam was doing that act to maintain some dignity IF she were any other normal person. But because she is Sam her behaviour at that meeting was to try and gain the upper hand back by acting breezy like she didn't ever care and that Neil was nuts for thinking she would be upset still. It was another little bullish!t power play move by her. she thinks she is slick but the look on her face and barely concealed anger always comes through. Like I said earlier I saw a flash of absolute rage go through her eyes (just in the eyes) right after Neil said he chose divorce and it was a window into her soul. I saw everything I needed to right there to make up my mind about her once and for all . And people like her just don't have the emotional capacity to change in my experience.

I also agree with the few people that think Neil's decision was edited to make it seem a bit colder and more clinical than it actually was. Although I have no issue with how he did it (if it wasn't edited),personally.

I'm a little surprised at the chagrin shown that Neil didn't give Sam a heads up--I took it for granted that all the participants were instructed by production not to tell their partners what their decision was. Maybe they could hint? Every season we've seen everyone being all nervous and worried--why would they be if they'd discussed their decision with their partner?

And I'm totally in Neil's corner. I think he shut down early on. He'd agreed to to this and followed through as best he could, but soon figured out that he would have to protect himself, (and who can blame him?) from Sam's attacks. As others have pointed out, a narcissist or a bully is quick to exploit what they see as vulnerabilities. I think he was smart to stay self contained and not give Sam any fodder. He may not show his emotions easily but he has them.The audition show showed us a hipster with a dry sense of humor and a large, warm group of friends. The conclusion showed an exhausted, worn out guy who just wanted to get back to his life. I hope he finds a genuinely quirky woman who will appreciate him.

izabella · March 2, 2016

As far as her response to him the next day, again, I see that as someone who is desperately trying to protect feelings and appear as though they are fine (when they aren't) and she was over it, so to speak. I felt that she was very hurt because I do think she had changed and grown during those weeks with Neil. I think she was being truthful when she said that she didn't know what she wanted until she met Neil, although maybe a more honest statement would have been that she didn't know what she wanted until she GOT TO KNOW Neil. I do think he was probably a good match for her - - she's manic and over the top and he's much more calming and precise.

If I'm Neal, I'm saying, "I don't give a fuck if I'm good for Sam. She is not good for ME and that's all that matters to ME."

I also agree with the few people that think Neil's decision was edited to make it seem a bit colder and more clinical than it actually was. Although I have no issue with how he did it (if it wasn't edited),personally.

I'm not entirely sure what he said vs. what editing made it seem like he said. In any case, Neal could have said a whole lot that he didn't say out of kindness. Like, "Yeah, not interested in being married to someone who thinks it's ok to call me a pussy, repeatedly. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, or maybe do."

Jade Foxx · March 2, 2016

I also am kind of finding it odd that people think Neil should have given Sam a heads up on his decision. Sam didn't give Neil any common courtesies through the whole 'process'. And he was pretty clear he was analyzing it and undecided right to the end and I believe him. If people should get warnings on everything maybe then Sam should have sat him down at the beginning and given him a heads up that she is a nasty bully so she didn't blindside him? Nah; he didn't owe her anything after how awful she was and her "turn around" with a week and half left was totally insincere. I have seen more convincing preformances at an elementary school play than what Sam gave. It smacked of being what her favourite word to throw around is: Fake! And I had an issue with her behaviour when they met to talk it out later because she acted like Neil was out to lunch for hesitantly wondering if she was ok. She brushed it off sort of like "why wouldn't I be?" Like he was crazy. Um I dunno cuz last time I saw you you ran out of the studio and crouched by a curb sobbing and yelling like your world was over while pepper Schwartz had to console you? I would agree that Sam was doing that act to maintain some dignity IF she were any other normal person. But because she is Sam her behaviour at that meeting was to try and gain the upper hand back by acting breezy like she didn't ever care and that Neil was nuts for thinking she would be upset still. It was another little bullish!t power play move by her. she thinks she is slick but the look on her face and barely concealed anger always comes through. Like I said earlier I saw a flash of absolute rage go through her eyes (just in the eyes) right after Neil said he chose divorce and it was a window into her soul. I saw everything I needed to right there to make up my mind about her once and for all . And people like her just don't have the emotional capacity to change in my experience.

I also agree with the few people that think Neil's decision was edited to make it seem a bit colder and more clinical than it actually was. Although I have no issue with how he did it (if it wasn't edited),personally.

Empress1 · March 2, 2016

If I'm Neal, I'm saying, "I don't give a fuck if I'm good for Sam. She is not good for ME and that's all that matters to ME."

Right! Sam's speech was all about her. So ok, Neil helps her be her best (and if that's her best, she's got work to do). What's in it for Neil? What does Neil get out of being with her? Only Sam gets to be happy? Nah, son. I saw no indication that Sam's changes involved her treating Neil with any respect, and I simply do not think that anyone should stay married to someone who doesn't respect them. That's basic human decency. She called him a pussy, mocked his home, didn't welcome him into her home, threw him out when he tried to tease her in the same way she's been teasing him ... there's no reason Neil should shackle himself to that.

izabella · March 2, 2016

Right! Sam's speech was all about her. So ok, Neil helps her be her best (and if that's her best, she's got work to do). What's in it for Neil? What does Neil get out of being with her? Only Sam gets to be happy? Nah, son. I saw no indication that Sam's changes involved her treating Neil with any respect, and I simply do not think that anyone should stay married to someone who doesn't respect them. That's basic human decency. She called him a pussy, mocked his home, didn't welcome him into her home, threw him out when he tried to tease her in the same way she's been teasing him ... there's no reason Neil should shackle himself to that.

Exactly. It's not his job in life to give Sam Remedial Human Decency training by staying married to her.

Evil Queen · March 2, 2016

I'm not entirely sure what he said vs. what editing made it seem like he said. In any case, Neal could have said a whole lot that he didn't say out of kindness. Like, "Yeah, not interested in being married to someone who thinks it's ok to call me a pussy, repeatedly. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, or maybe do."

Wouldn't it have been something if Neil had told her and the "experts" exactly why he wanted the divorce? Obviously he wasn't going to do that but OMG that would have been the icing on the cake if he had.

Vinyasa · March 2, 2016

Lol. I had the same reaction. I have come to expect Kevin Frazier to host the reunion show--- he comes off as a fan, someone who's invested in the show just like the average viewer. It's also nice to have a third party ask the questions for a change instead of the experts moderating the show. Makes me wonder how big a disaster this season is for Dr. Pepper to be hosting it. Will the rest of the experts be there? How come we don't get all the couples in one room? Does the production have issues regarding its budget, venue, or schedules? Gosh, can't wait for all this to be over.

Exactly! The reunion is going to nothing more than another Dr. Pepper visit. UGH! I demand a reunion show like Season 2.

"Mr. Frazier" needs to be there, right Sean??

JaggedLilPill · March 2, 2016

He definitely made the right decision. Sam didn't know how to relate to Neil, so she would get anxious and frustrated when he didn't open up, and then go for the jugular.

Wasn't there that one episode where she said "I don't want to have to upset him to get him to open up to me." Yeah, huge red flag.

I just do not understand the matchmaking process here.....so Tres and Vanessa were matched because they have abandonment issues; Sam and Neil because he's more introverted and she's more extroverted and they're both "quirky," ; and Ashley and David....?

Why not just match them based on the brands of clothes they wear? I mean, really. "They both wear socks! Match 'em!"

Vinyasa · March 2, 2016

I just do not understand the matchmaking process here.....

Neither do the experts that made the matches.....

JaggedLilPill · March 2, 2016

Neither do the experts that made the matches.....

Touche! Haha.

I'm sure they don't care, but how embarrassing for them. Three couples (and we'll see if Tres and Vanessa make it past six weeks) out of nine.

MsPH · March 2, 2016

I just can't muster up any sympathy for Sam whatsoever. Perhaps because I don't believe a single word coming out of her mouth. She may have grown fond of Neil, like a cat grows fond of his new scratching post, but it had nothing to do with love. She was taking Neil for granted and treating him like crap on top it, but the minute he started counting down the days, she got desperate to win him over. It's all about her. Her toddler tantrum proved again how manipulative she is. She probably hoped Neil would come running after her. So glad he didn't move a muscle. It's clear that whatever attraction Neil felt in the beginning soon disappeared while watching her crude behaviour and hearing her hurtful words. I can't blame him at all. I mean what sane man would be attracted to someone like Sam? No one. It was funny how she showed up the next day in a cute dress with her hair all shiny and straightened. It was such an obvious attempt to show him what he missed out on. Maybe you should've made an effort a bit sooner, Sam! And she was still being a bitch to him with all the "of course I'm fine, why wouldn't I be fine" "well I was open and honest" stuff. Bye Sam! Don't let the door hit you on your way out!

Glad Vanessa and Tres decided to give it a go. BTW, whoever thought Neil's wording was cruel should realise they're coached to beat about the bush as evidenced by Vanessa's long-winded answer full of but's. I'm gonna miss Nola the most!

Ashley looked frightening in the preview! If she was hoping to come off more sympathetic then that wasn't the way to go. She looked like some movie villain.

AntManBee · March 2, 2016

This show is such a trainwreck. Yet, I continue to watch weekly with my friends while we drink a bottle of wine and play arm chair psychologist. Nevertheless, NONE of the these people were all that likable this year. The show, and it's "experts" are all jokes.

Maybe I watched a different show last night. I thought David storming around the house, cleaning his stuff out, asking inane questions about who wants a picture frame, etc, was sort of childish. While he was summarily rejected by Ashley, I think she could tell that he was acting temperamentally and by asking him to talk, she wanted him to stop buzzing around and address his pent up emotions. For such an emotive guy who spent weeks needling Ashley about opening up more, he shut down very quickly.

Something about Neil really bugs me. Sam at least is up front about her being a bitch. Neil seems too calculated.

Tres and Vanessa are too boring to care much about.

These experts need to be more forthcoming about why these candidates were selected for show, and why they were matched. More than "they're both bi-racial, so we matched them because they are similar! They bring out the qualities the other lacks, we matched them because they are opposites! They both agreed to be on the show, we matched them because they were available and signed the waivers!"

I'm upset that the reunion looks to be more one-one/two interviews by Dr. Pepper (arguably the most inane expert). The best part of the reunion last year was seeing the experts sitting in shock as all the marriages fell apart in front of them.

Snarklepuss · March 2, 2016

I also am kind of finding it odd that people think Neil should have given Sam a heads up on his decision. Sam didn't give Neil any common courtesies through the whole 'process'. And he was pretty clear he was analyzing it and undecided right to the end and I believe him. If people should get warnings on everything maybe then Sam should have sat him down at the beginning and given him a heads up that she is a nasty bully so she didn't blindside him? Nah; he didn't owe her anything after how awful she was and her "turn around" with a week and half left was totally insincere.

I actually think Sam was convinced she had had this incredible change or at least she wanted Neil to think that - I personally don't think her primary motivation was to save face but perhaps to convince him that she really wasn't this awful bitch that she came off as in the beginning because now suddenly in spite of herself she really liked him. I do think her image was an issue too but I can't shake the feeling that it wasn't a total act. She was hoping that copping to her bad behavior and acting like she was unworthy would absolve her of all her meanness and prove to him (and the world) that she really is a nice person and therefore he (and the audience) should like her back. Meanwhile we all know she still is that awful bitch deep down and would treat other men (and him) the same again if the situation were right. I think she really wanted him to say yes and was trying to sell herself to him based on some kind of "conversion experience" LOL. I could imagine Sam at the pearly gates pulling the same crap with St. Peter saying, "I've repented of my sins, let me into heaven" and St. Peter giving her the side eye. I think Sam was looking for some kind of redemption in doing this with Neil. I still think it was two-fold, though, and that it wasn't just to redeem her image, but to redeem herself and the relationship. I think she knows deep down that she fucked up and thought this was an easy way to heal herself from her issues and get the guy in the end, but unfortunately that's not the way it works.

That said, I do think Sam made it abundantly clear to Neil before the decision day that she was going to say she wanted to stay together. She even said it flat out in the car in one scene. She was pulling out all the stops last minute to get him to change his mind about her. Meanwhile it was too little too late and I think she knew that but gave it her best shot anyway. I personally don't think Neil owed her anything but he could have been the better person and stuck to respecting her as if she were completely deserving of that respect.

bichonblitz · March 2, 2016

I had three thoughts about this show:

1. Why doesn't David wear undershirts under button-up shirts. He needs some white hanes or another button done up (or both). It's such a sloppy, unattractive look.

Atlanta in the summer. It's hot, humid and all around oppressive. I live in Florida and the men never wear undershirts under their button up shirts. It's all about the climate. It would be like women wearing pantyhose all summer. It just doesn't happen anymore.

zxy556575 · March 2, 2016

And yes, people draw from personal experiences and tend to favor one participant over the other, but sometimes the amount of animosity, or dare I say hatred, towards some of the participants come off a bit lopsided.

The men were the target of most of the vitriol last season, if that makes it seem more balanced.

About Sam looking all cool and collected when they met up in the end: I don't blame her for that. I think she had some time to cool off and think things over, and she didn't want to show her hurt again. What was she supposed to do? Sob and beg on her knees for him to take her back?

She was obviously pretending again, is why I shook my head. Why not sit down with Neil and have a genuine, open, conversation about her feelings and expectations? Instead, she fake-breezily brushed him off in favor of making herself look "good" the same way she did all season.

Edited March 2, 2016 by lordonia

MsPH · March 2, 2016

I don't think Neil could've told Sam in advance without killing all the suspense. It would've been obvious from Sam's behaviour that he'd already rejected her. She would've gone from "changed" Sam on an upward spiral back to "evil bitch" in a nanosecond. I think they're strongly encouraged to make their decisions separately and to wait until Decision Day to voice them. Even the couples who decide to stay together look super nervous about what the other person will say. I don't see why Neil is expected to be the exception.

Kareem · March 2, 2016

Oh man! I'll lay my cards on the table: I am completely team Neal. I think he has tons of personality, and I find him both interesting and funny - well, as much as one can garner from a two month serial. And I get that YMMV, so others are less than enthused by him. But I am just really surprised by some people's read on his behavior, so much so that even though the show's basically over (thank goodness...), I wanted to put it out there.

But no, Neal is not Sheldon. Not at all. But people kept bringing up the comparison, so I revisited the show, and then enlisted the help of a bud - who's a big fan of the show - to see if he saw the resemblance. He thought there were a few small traits that they shared (ie. lack of blinking), and they both work in more technical professions, but I don't know if there's much more. Moreover, the biggest comparison point seems to be that both are oblivious, or unaware, to human emotions- both theirs and others. And that? That I think is completely untrue of Neal.

I'd even go as far as to say he is one of the savviest participants we have seen so far. Who else, from any season, trumps him?

Neal wasn't hiding his emotions. But in order to get him, you have to pay attention. I could be half dead, and I could still gauge where David was, because he is that much of an extravert. But not Neal. You have to look at him, watch his expressions. Listen. You have to get it in context, like the analysis of a great novel. But it was there. He wasn't Ashley. He was emoting; he just did it with subtlety. And there were times when he wasn't so subtle. And, I would expect someone living with him every day (yeah, I know they really weren't though for chunks of time) would get even more than I am watching an edited hour a week. To me, it gives strength to those saying Sam is a narcissist, because I'd think you have to willfully ignore him to not get him somewhat. Even when he expresses similar language, you can tell, for instance, how he's feeling, like when his voice goes up when he's making a statement that sounds like a question. His face is expressive. His words are expressive. He's not choosing them carefully because he is lying, or because he is playing to the camera. He's choosing his words carefully because that's who he is. Introverts in general do that, and I think his particular subset does that especially. None of us know really, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt over others.

He is absolutely not passive aggressive. In order to be that way, you have to be..well... aggressive. And someone just said it above me, he's just more passive. Just like Ryan was more aggressive. We all get angry. It's going to come out one way or another. I think a better example of passive aggressiveness would be Vanessa, actually. She retracts until she is really upset, but when she does speak her mind it's almost antagonistic. I saw that right before she left for her place. I actually saw that in Jessica too. She was not a shy violet. And I've found that a passive aggressive person w/ an aggressive person is the worst combination (which partially explains Ryan and Jessica's volatility).

But back to Neal. Sure he was at times moody, and sullen; he's human. But he's also bent over backwards to try to accommodate Sam as best he could. Heck, he was accommodating his wife before he met her by shaving the beard, which to me doesn't signify a desire to get attention, since those beards are kind of a dime a dozen where I'm at (NE corridor). He even started being a bit more profane on camera...for what I thought were pretty small things. But Sam cited that as an example of how he was fake, so he amended his behavior.

If people aren't joned on him because he's not alpha male, or the typical guy's guy, then, well, we all have our preferences. But just because he's a quieter, introspective, easy going man, who eschews confrontation and tries to see things positively, does not make the man defective, or in need of any particular extra training or transformation. What he needed was someone who could appreciate those qualities.

And for me that was the saddest part of the whole pairing. Even if I thought the best of Sam, it seemed she was completely clueless about learning who Neal was. On their honeymoon, Neal figured out the experts wanted them to learn from their divergent personalities, but even after a few weeks she was still talking about how they were "good people". She just didn't seem to have the depth he was looking for, and in order for them to work, he was always going to have to manage her, and sublimate some vital parts of who he is.

Don't get me wrong, he comes off as odd in social settings. But on a one to one level, he's attuned to the other person- if s/he lets him. And he is not unaware of what is required in a social setting. To dip back, I don't think Neal has vulgar friends only. Knowing who Sam was, it appears he chose his more gregarious peops. And at the weddings, all the grooms greeted the families. But it was probably more stressful for Neal- so noticeable it compelled Sam's mom to give a little pep talk to him. I do not think Sheldon, as he is depicted on the show, would do that.

To reference pop psych a bit, Neal - apart from his job - seems to be almost a stereotypical INFP (MBTI). They aren't as common in the populace, and can come off as quiet, weird, and/or odd. But they are deeply passionate. And the interesting thing abut that type? They will keep plugging away at a relationship, trying to make things work long after everyone else has given up. The thing with them, though? When they are done, they are done.

So while his comment - if it wasn't tweaked - surprised me, it didn't strike me as cruel. It seemed more resolute; he gave it considerable thought, and there was no room for the experts or anyone else to sway him. So I hope next week's preview is just a misleading teaser.

Oh well, off the team Neal soapbox. :)

And btw, I was always under the impression that you are not supposed to talk about what you will do on decision day, and if you do, only in the most hypothetical terms. So I thought that both Sam, and Vanessa for that matter, were being unfair in trying to get an early decision; that it's just the mechanics of the show.

This should run just before the final credits of the show. In all caps. Well said.

WichitaStateShock · March 2, 2016

Well, Ashley actually made sense but I still dont think she tried. Her look next week is....ummmm....interesting.

I hope Sam actually takes the time to learn from this experience.

Evil Queen · March 3, 2016

I actually think Sam was convinced she had had this incredible change or at least she wanted Neil to think that - I personally don't think her primary motivation was to save face but perhaps to convince him that she really wasn't this awful bitch that she came off as in the beginning because now suddenly in spite of herself she really liked him. I do think her image was an issue too but I can't shake the feeling that it wasn't a total act. She was hoping that copping to her bad behavior and acting like she was unworthy would absolve her of all her meanness and prove to him (and the world) that she really is a nice person and therefore he (and the audience) should like her back. Meanwhile we all know she still is that awful bitch deep down and would treat other men (and him) the same again if the situation were right. I think she really wanted him to say yes and was trying to sell herself to him based on some kind of "conversion experience" LOL. I could imagine Sam at the pearly gates pulling the same crap with St. Peter saying, "I've repented of my sins, let me into heaven" and St. Peter giving her the side eye. I think Sam was looking for some kind of redemption in doing this with Neil. I still think it was two-fold, though, and that it wasn't just to redeem her image, but to redeem herself and the relationship. I think she knows deep down that she fucked up and thought this was an easy way to heal herself from her issues and get the guy in the end, but unfortunately that's not the way it works.

That said, I do think Sam made it abundantly clear to Neil before the decision day that she was going to say she wanted to stay together. She even said it flat out in the car in one scene. She was pulling out all the stops last minute to get him to change his mind about her. Meanwhile it was too little too late and I think she knew that but gave it her best shot anyway. I personally don't think Neil owed her anything but he could have been the better person and stuck to respecting her as if she were completely deserving of that respect.

I wouldn't be surprised actually if there was an agenda there. Not just one to find out what he will say that day. What if Neil had been the first to answer and said yes then woudl she have said no and gone all bitch mode on him about all that is wrong with him or still said yes? I'd lean towards the no. But I do wish he would have said he wanted a divorce and explained why. Even if she wouldn't have understood it, it would have been said and out there. I'm sure it could have been done in a tactful way.

I don't think Neil could've told Sam in advance without killing all the suspense. It would've been obvious from Sam's behaviour that he'd already rejected her. She would've gone from "changed" Sam on an upward spiral back to "evil bitch" in a nanosecond. I think they're strongly encouraged to make their decisions separately and to wait until Decision Day to voice them. Even the couples who decide to stay together look super nervous about what the other person will say. I don't see why Neil is expected to be the exception.

Obviously they discuss the what ifs (Tres and Vanessa's living arrangements) and I'm sure other things along with it. Obviously its best for tv if they don't tell each other right then and there before the decision day what they are doing to do. Otherwise, you have someone like Sam that will be in bitch mode the rest of the time and ones that just walk off (even though some should long before that day comes).

BBDi · March 3, 2016

I finally watched the whole episode, and much to my delight there was a scene where David said he'd been chasing after someone who didn't want to be caught. And I thought "Just like Pepe le Pew!"

psychoticstate · March 3, 2016

This show is such a trainwreck. Yet, I continue to watch weekly with my friends while we drink a bottle of wine and play arm chair psychologist. Nevertheless, NONE of the these people were all that likable this year. The show, and it's "experts" are all jokes.

Maybe I watched a different show last night. I thought David storming around the house, cleaning his stuff out, asking inane questions about who wants a picture frame, etc, was sort of childish. While he was summarily rejected by Ashley, I think she could tell that he was acting temperamentally and by asking him to talk, she wanted him to stop buzzing around and address his pent up emotions. For such an emotive guy who spent weeks needling Ashley about opening up more, he shut down very quickly.

Something about Neil really bugs me. Sam at least is up front about her being a bitch. Neil seems too calculated.

Tres and Vanessa are too boring to care much about.

These experts need to be more forthcoming about why these candidates were selected for show, and why they were matched. More than "they're both bi-racial, so we matched them because they are similar! They bring out the qualities the other lacks, we matched them because they are opposites! They both agreed to be on the show, we matched them because they were available and signed the waivers!"

I'm upset that the reunion looks to be more one-one/two interviews by Dr. Pepper (arguably the most inane expert). The best part of the reunion last year was seeing the experts sitting in shock as all the marriages fell apart in front of them.

If the so-called experts can't even make it back for the reunion, they need to go. Shouldn't that be part of their job? ALL OF THEM need to explain why they matched these couples up and why they were absent for so much of the "experiment."

I don't think Neil could've told Sam in advance without killing all the suspense. It would've been obvious from Sam's behaviour that he'd already rejected her. She would've gone from "changed" Sam on an upward spiral back to "evil bitch" in a nanosecond. I think they're strongly encouraged to make their decisions separately and to wait until Decision Day to voice them. Even the couples who decide to stay together look super nervous about what the other person will say. I don't see why Neil is expected to be the exception.

I think it's fairly apparent that production at least knows what each person is going to say. No one is/was surprised with David and Ashley but David spoke first - - he wanted to stay married, she did not. Vanessa spoke first, gave a long-winded explanation, wanted to stay. Tres looked shocked and scared so we were (hopefully) on the edge of our seats. Sam spoke first, she wanted to stay together. Then Neil.

It would be anticlimactic (and far less drama) if Neil had spoken first and said he wanted a divorce.

Waterlilly · March 3, 2016

Sam waited six weeks to wash her hair and fix up so she could show Neil what he had lost, he looked unmoved.

Love Ashley auditioning for RuPaul's Drag Race next week.

Nola is the cutest thing, she is so expressive.

fountain · March 3, 2016

With an experiment like this I feel the participants are required to try to build a relationship, regardless of initial attraction, it is the contract they signed. While maybe David was annoying and needy, it seemed like Ashley didn't try at all because she wasn't attracted to him and that isn't really fair. Obviously, she was a poor fit for the experiment as she couldn't put aside her attraction feelings and just participate with David in any way really at all. I do find that hard to understand and support as I personally would be able to at least try to get to know the person.

I think being repulsed by any of the people on the show, men or women would be a reaching statement as no one looked like they smelled or anything, not everyone was conventionally hot but no one should turn your stomach. If you are that particular bout looks then they shouldn't have even applied for the show.

Personally, I find the experiment a bit weird in the sense that I would think one would force themselves to do some things because they are married, even if strangers. Like kiss, why wouldn't you just kiss and see what it is like? Sleep in the same bed, why not just go for it? I mean people knew they were marrying strangers you have to force yourself to get to know the person and see where it goes. I guess the show cannot force them but you think participants would be more open minded.

KateHearts · March 3, 2016

This is going to be a very unpopular opinion but Neil is a punk. Sam for all her faults is at least honest.

I don't get not discussing the decision beforehand, unless he wanted to publicly humiliate her. His decision was the right one but he should have remained a class act till the end. Instead he comes across and petty and vindictive. I don't even like Sam but Neil was an asshole.

I'm not sure why Neil was an asshole for making the decision. Yeah, he kind of strung her along a bit when she tried to lead him with questions like "do you think we've had more good times than bad the past few weeks?" but please, the producers obviously told them to allude to very little during the lead up to the *gasp* oh-so-exciting-and-suspenseful DECISION DAY.

And I'm tired of Sam talking about how honest she was... really?! And for her to be all nice when they met up the next day and throw the jab, "we were honest from the get-go... well, *I* was honest, anyway!" She was a very theatrical goofy bride, a mean-spirited, domineering and condescending early bride, and then towards the end realized that she was going to look bad and tried to make nice. She said that she cried after his announcement that she was embarrassed. She should have been, for being unkind. And she was- but not because she realized she had not treated him well, but because she was going to be dumped.

Ashley was absolutely right that David was in love with the idea of marriage and love, not her. Still, I give her two thumbs down for not even trying, shutting him out completely, blaming the entire failed relationship on text-gate, and - the final nail on the coffin - wanting to "talk about things" after they called it quits. At least, finally, David had the dignity to politely figuratively give her the finger and walk out the door before he embarrassed himself one final time.

Snarklepuss · March 3, 2016

But no, Neal is not Sheldon. Not at all. But people kept bringing up the comparison, so I revisited the show, and then enlisted the help of a bud - who's a big fan of the show - to see if he saw the resemblance. He thought there were a few small traits that they shared (ie. lack of blinking), and they both work in more technical professions, but I don't know if there's much more. Moreover, the biggest comparison point seems to be that both are oblivious, or unaware, to human emotions- both theirs and others. And that? That I think is completely untrue of Neal.

I'd even go as far as to say he is one of the savviest participants we have seen so far. Who else, from any season, trumps him?

Neal wasn't hiding his emotions. But in order to get him, you have to pay attention. I could be half dead, and I could still gauge where David was, because he is that much of an extravert. But not Neal. You have to look at him, watch his expressions. Listen. You have to get it in context, like the analysis of a great novel. But it was there. He wasn't Ashley. He was emoting; he just did it with subtlety. And there were times when he wasn't so subtle. And, I would expect someone living with him every day (yeah, I know they really weren't though for chunks of time) would get even more than I am watching an edited hour a week. To me, it gives strength to those saying Sam is a narcissist, because I'd think you have to willfully ignore him to not get him somewhat. Even when he expresses similar language, you can tell, for instance, how he's feeling, like when his voice goes up when he's making a statement that sounds like a question. His face is expressive. His words are expressive. He's not choosing them carefully because he is lying, or because he is playing to the camera. He's choosing his words carefully because that's who he is. Introverts in general do that, and I think his particular subset does that especially. None of us know really, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt over others.

The Sheldon comparison is a loose one, not intended to be more than that, but the point I wanted to respond to is that I don't agree at all that Neil wasn't hiding his emotions. I think he was, and deliberately. I think it's easy to project what we want to think someone is feeling when they're basically a blank slate and trying not to reveal what they really think and feel. Plus whenever Neil did express himself it was usually negative in response to Sam or some kind of phony show-induced shit about how much progress they've made. If I went by that I would think he was full of himself and a twit, but I know what he was up against so I give him a pass on that. So because of that I really don't have much of a sense of what makes Neil tick. For all I know he's an axe murderer. I'm being hyperbolic here but making a point.

I really hate it that people can pull off a blank slate such that they come off fantastic, meanwhile people who let out their emotions like Sam are vilified and torn to pieces because they let a little imperfection show. I hate that so much I can't even see straight. And I don't even like Sam and think she has big issues but I still hate it that people who hide themselves are often assumed to be such innocent creatures. And I am one of the biggest introverts out there and I still don't buy it that Neil is all these great things but I'm just not seeing them. I am the first person to give an introvert a break when I think they deserve it and I tend to know what and how an introvert thinks. I know how to pay attention to stuff like that, it's one of my strong suits in life. And I just don't see it with Neil. I think Sam was onto something that he was not being "himself" on TV. Whatever he is, I didn't see it. He was so calculated I would question the sincerity of anything that came out of his mouth. I actually trust a person more who is flawed but lets their true selves show than someone who deliberately hides it. Just what exactly was he hiding? Why was he so careful about every word that came out of his mouth? That to me needs more than introversion to explain it. Being an introvert is one thing but hiding your true self is another. I am an introvert but when I do express myself I don't hide my true feelings.

Kira53 · March 3, 2016

This is going to be a very unpopular opinion but Neil is a punk. Sam for all her faults is at least honest.

I don't get not discussing the decision beforehand, unless he wanted to publicly humiliate her. His decision was the right one but he should have remained a class act till the end. Instead he comes across and petty and vindictive. I don't even like Sam but Neil was an asshole.

The rules of this reality show is to save important things for the camera. They probably sign a contract not to tell their mate until the scene of the decision. There is no way that Neil could have told her in private and she would not have showed that she knew his decision.

This is a show. Who would watch two episodes if you already know the outcome? Two weeks ago when Sam began to sense that Neil might not choose to stay with her suddenly Sam wanted to keep him in the marriage but just to save her ego. Her "mistake" was to show him at the very beginning how mean and cruel she could be. Those qualities don't change; they can always come out. She was being nice because she wanted to manipulate Neil and satisfy her ego.

A

Palomar · March 3, 2016

I couldn't believe she reverted back to that blank dead fish stare as soon as they got to the house. It's like her face is frozen when she's alone with David. Glad he wasn't interested in hearing her.

He made the perfect point that NOW she wants to talk. I would have much more respect for her if she didn't keep bringing the BS of not being faithful to her as the reason for the failure. She is a horrible actress that she was outraged...she was more likely thrilled that she now had her excuse. She was checked out the second she saw him and he wasn't the Prince Charming she fantasized about. She did the bare minimum to play out her contract.

izabella · March 3, 2016

Just what exactly was he hiding? Why was he so careful about every word that came out of his mouth? That to me needs more than introversion to explain it.

What you see as Neal hiding something, I see as Neal walking on eggshells so as not to set off Sam's emotionally volatile and mean side.

KateHearts · March 3, 2016

Oh, and two more things:

If I'd really been full-out crying like Sam did at her rejection, I would not look so pulled-together the next day.

And I really, really want Vanessa's dog. She was the star of it all.

BunnySlippers · March 3, 2016

Didn't Sam and Neil meet up a week after Decision Day, not the very next day? That's how I remembered it. Can anybody who recorded the show check?

Snarklepuss · March 3, 2016

To reference pop psych a bit, Neal - apart from his job - seems to be almost a stereotypical INFP (MBTI). They aren't as common in the populace, and can come off as quiet, weird, and/or odd. But they are deeply passionate. And the interesting thing abut that type? They will keep plugging away at a relationship, trying to make things work long after everyone else has given up. The thing with them, though? When they are done, they are done.

As an INFJ myself I used to run a mailing list for INFJs - I have known and met a fair number of INFPs and have studied MBTI theory, and I think that if Neil is an INFP he's a very immature one from an emotional standpoint. I knew a woman who was type certified who ran a site just for people to determine whether they were INFJ or INFP as people were often confused about which one they were as there are similarities and we used to talk often about INFPs. Most healthy INFPs I have known come across as the "fluffy bunnies" of the type world. Neil is no fluffy bunny. I think he is more likely an INTJ who is very uncomfortable in the feeling realm since feeling is their weakest function. The INTJ totem animal was the owl and I think that fits Neil much more. It explains why he is so reserved and very out of his depth dealing in the realm of feelings. While healthy INFPs usually don't directly express their feelings for the world to see, they don't act as uncomfortable in the feeling and relationship realm as thinking types, in fact, it is their dominant preference. Plus unless they are willfully hiding their feelings they will be easier to read.

Come to think of it, Neil reminds me of an INFP from that mailing list who was having a long distance relationship with a female INFJ friend of mine also on that list. She never really knew where she stood with him but he lead her on by continuing to accept her invitations to visit her or have her visit him. She wanted to believe that his introducing her to his parents was a promising sign and in a moment of romantic emotion she said the dreaded "I love you" to him (after almost a year of dating). She told me it was almost like she told him to fuck off the way he acted. He very coldly replied with no emotion that he didn't love her. Then he didn't understand why she broke down in tears, ran out, packed her things at that moment and left with his parents putting dinner on the table and everything. She came back home sobbing and I was there to meet her at the airport. It came out later though the grapevine that he was cheating on my friend all along with an old girlfriend, who when my friend called her to tell her that he had cheated on her told her that she "just didn't understand him". WHAT? This woman would defend a man who not only cheated on her but coldly dumped the woman who was decent enough to tell her about it? Anyway, he was the most dysfunctional INFP I ever knew - I met him a few times at annual gatherings before this so I knew what he was like in person. So perhaps that is one reason I don't trust the placid exterior of someone like Neil who can act so promising one moment and then turn cold and dump a woman like that because I have known about it before.

Jack Sampson · March 3, 2016

Wow, just saw the preview, Ashley hired a bad stylist...or a blind one. The hair looks WAY overdone for a basic cable TV appearance and the makeup adds 20 years to her already prematurely aging face. And David looks like he got younger - that's got to piss her off.

At least it looks like she waxed her lip for once.

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S03.E14: Final Decision, Pt. 2

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