S01.E04: 100% Not Guilty

[MargotWendice]

Was it really "smearing" Nicole if what was said about her was true?  If that was the kind of life she had chosen to live, that information was pertinent to the case, especially the drug angle.  Sure Resnick was and is a piece of work, but the book told who Nicole was.  I mean, she had a seduction scene set up that night waiting on Goldman to arrive while her young children were in the house.  That backed up the reports of her promiscuous behavior.

Since Nicole did not have a chance to respond to the things being said about her, we don't know what was true. Faye could have made up everything in her book--who knows? I would not assume that a desperate woman who had a history of divorces and drug use, and who clearly wanted/needed money, was the most reliable story teller.

And who knows if Nicole planned to 'seduce' Ron that night? And even if she did, how did that make her promiscuous?

I don't know why it matters that her children were upstairs asleep, even if she did plan to have a romantic encounter with Ron. So custodial parents are never allowed to have romantic encounters? Is it okay for married people to have sex while their children are asleep?

I mean, their father butchered their mother while they were asleep upstairs--now THAT is a big deal.

[DangerousMinds]

Do you think it is just plain old jealousy then?  I think the narrative is that she was working as a waitress and O.J. was struck by her beauty and just had to ask her out.  This seems like a fairy tale to most people.  Beautiful working class woman is lifted into a world of privilege by a wealthy powerful man.  It almost reads like a Danielle Steel (sp?) novel.

 

Los Angeles is a place with many beautiful actresses and models working in the service industry hoping for a big break.  People were probably asking what the heck made her so special?

 

It saddens me that it is like that she was victimized twice (like Goldman).  First, brutally murdered, then tarnished to the point of very little sympathy.

And none of that should have mattered one iota. Even if Nicole had been a homeless crack addict and Ron her pimp, the victims were not on trial. It saddens and infuriates me to no end.

[Daisy head]

I don't doubt for a minute that Fred and Kim Goldman would gladly trade any amount of media exposure or "celebrity" status they may have achieved  & live a life of complete obscurity if it would bring Ron back. JMO.

[Dejana]

Since Nicole did not have a chance to respond to the things being said about her, we don't know what was true. Faye could have made up everything in her book--who knows? I would not assume that a desperate woman who had a history of divorces and drug use, and who clearly wanted/needed money, was the most reliable story teller.

And who knows if Nicole planned to 'seduce' Ron that night? And even if she did, how did that make her promiscuous?

I don't know why it matters that her children were upstairs asleep, even if she did plan to have a romantic encounter with Ron. So custodial parents are never allowed to have romantic encounters? Is it okay for married people to have sex while their children are asleep?

I mean, their father butchered their mother while they were asleep upstairs--now THAT is a big deal.

I guess the thought is that it's different (and more difficult to explain away) if the kids wake up and stumble upon something they shouldnn't see involving Mommy and Daddy, vs. Mommy and Some Other Guy. And some still find the idea of it unseemly, a divorced parent (of either sex) "entertaining" friends on nights when they have custody of the kids. Faye did have many incentives to embellish lurid accounts of Nicole's life, but some people probably do look at what she and other Nicole BFF Kris Jenner have become in the years since and figure, "Birds of a feather." None of this justifies someone being murdered, of course.

[Daisy head]

Ron's mom apparently left when the kids were young, Ron hadn't seen her in 12 years and hadn't spoken to her in 2.  The last time he called her, her husband told him not to call again.

I recently heard that Ron's mother received a good portion (not sure how much) of the monetary judgement against OJ. Pretty sickening given that she was hardly invested in her son during his life.  Life is truly not fair.

[Umbelina]

Ugh.. Fred Goldman and Denise Brown wanted fame for themselves. Both rubbed me the wrong way. Just go away, both of you. And, take Kim Goldman with you. I seriously doubt any lawyer would turn to her and say "gotcha".

 

No, they did not.  They wanted justice. 

I don't doubt for a minute that Fred and Kim Goldman would gladly trade any amount of media exposure or "celebrity" status they may have achieved  & live a life of complete obscurity if it would bring Ron back. JMO.

Right after the civil trial verdict, Fred Goldman told OJ he'd forgo all about the money from the judgement if OJ would admit his guilt.  He was safe criminally because of the double-jeopardy laws.

 

I guess the thought is that it's different (and more difficult to explain away) if the kids wake up and stumble upon something they shouldnn't see involving Mommy and Daddy, vs. Mommy and Some Other Guy. And some still find the idea of it unseemly, a divorced parent (of either sex) "entertaining" friends on nights when they have custody of the kids. Faye did have many incentives to embellish lurid accounts of Nicole's life, but some people probably do look at what she and other Nicole BFF Kris Jenner have become in the years since and figure, "Birds of a feather." None of this justifies someone being murdered, of course.

Nicole had the kids all the time, most of the time OJ had visitation he didn't show up. 

 

As another poster said, it doesn't matter WHAT Nicole did, or what Ron did, they didn't deserve to be violently butchered, and their murderer did NOT deserve to go free.  Blame the victim indeed.

[psychoticstate]

Ugh.. Fred Goldman and Denise Brown wanted fame for themselves. Both rubbed me the wrong way. Just go away, both of you. And, take Kim Goldman with you. I seriously doubt any lawyer would turn to her and say "gotcha".

 

I suppose it's a damn good thing that Ron was murdered, since Fred wanted fame so badly.  I seriously could not disagree with this more.  

 

Fred and Kim Goldman IMO are entitled to every public kvetching session they wish to have - - they endured the sudden and violent loss of Ron, the public supporting his killer during that asinine slow speed "chase", the trial that became more about race and possible LAPD corruption than the murders of two people and then watching Ron's killer walk out of the courtroom without so much as a slap on the wrist.   They need to keep Ron's memory alive and they should.  The public also needs to be reminded exactly what OJ Simpson did and got away with.

 

 

 

I don't doubt for a minute that Fred and Kim Goldman would gladly trade any amount of media exposure or "celebrity" status they may have achieved  & live a life of complete obscurity if it would bring Ron back. JMO.

 

EXACTLY. 

Since Nicole did not have a chance to respond to the things being said about her, we don't know what was true. Faye could have made up everything in her book--who knows? I would not assume that a desperate woman who had a history of divorces and drug use, and who clearly wanted/needed money, was the most reliable story teller.

And who knows if Nicole planned to 'seduce' Ron that night? And even if she did, how did that make her promiscuous?

I don't know why it matters that her children were upstairs asleep, even if she did plan to have a romantic encounter with Ron. So custodial parents are never allowed to have romantic encounters? Is it okay for married people to have sex while their children are asleep?

I mean, their father butchered their mother while they were asleep upstairs--now THAT is a big deal.

 

I personally don't think Nicole was setting the scene for Ron.  If it was anyone, it was Marcus Allen who allegedly was in LA that night and departed for the Bahamas (I think?) suddenly the next morning.  It's also possible that Nicole wasn't expecting anyone and just liked candles and enjoyed baths on her own. 

 

That said, do we think that when Simpson had the kids he didn't have Paula or other women staying over?  I doubt it.  So why is Nicole being raked over the coals for possibly having a romantic interlude with the children asleep? 

 

I don't know the truth about Nicole and what she was  like and the life she lived.  We do have to remember that she met Simpson when she was 18 and basically never had that young adulthood that most of us have.  Certainly it's possible that she was having that life at the time of her death and there's nothing wrong with that. 

 

I'm certainly not going to take Faye Resnick's word as gospel.

 

p.s. - Great minds, Umbelina! 

Edited February 27, 2016 by psychoticstate

[Umbelina]

OJ took the kids on trips WITH Paula.  He also cheated on Nicole non-stop when they were married.

[ennui]

It's also possible that Nicole wasn't expecting anyone and just liked candles and enjoyed baths on her own.

 

I think Nicole was expecting someone, or she wouldn’t have opened the door late at night. She was at minimum expecting Ron to drop off her mother’s glasses. Why she had candles lit for that is anyone’s guess.

[helenamonster]

Was it really "smearing" Nicole if what was said about her was true?  If that was the kind of life she had chosen to live, that information was pertinent to the case, especially the drug angle.  Sure Resnick was and is a piece of work, but the book told who Nicole was.  I mean, she had a seduction scene set up that night waiting on Goldman to arrive while her young children were in the house.  That backed up the reports of her promiscuous behavior.

 

It's smearing if the negative information about the victim is presented in a way that implies that she deserved what happened to her. Nicole may have very well been a promiscuous cocaine addict, but that doesn't mean she deserved to be nearly decapitated. Besides, even if it was an excuse for being murdered, that's not why she was killed. OJ was a domestic abuser that did what many perpetrators of abuse eventually do: kill the target of their abuse. And Ron was just unlucky enough to stumble upon it at the wrong time.

[Umbelina]

BTW, I seriously doubt Nicole was a cocaine addict, not that you were implying that.  Lots of people in those circles, including OJ, did recreational cocaine and pot back then.  Nicole was up early every morning, and running several miles, spent almost all of the rest of her time with her kids, went to lunch with girlfriends if the kids were in school, started going out dancing occasionally, and yes, flirting with guys or dating AFTER her divorce, basically trying to find a life after spending her entire adult life in an incredibly abusive, and passionate marriage.  She was finding herself, finding out how to have a sexual life without OJ in it, on her own for the first time in her life.  She basically went from her parent's house to being with another "grown up" --OJ. 

 

She left the money and the lifestyle, but at the same time, it was all she knew, so she was out there trying to find out what else there might be for her, and some of those choices might not have been where she eventually ended up, had she had that chance.

[CeeBeeGee]

Ugh.. Fred Goldman and Denise Brown wanted fame for themselves. Both rubbed me the wrong way. Just go away, both of you. And, take Kim Goldman with you. I seriously doubt any lawyer would turn to her and say "gotcha".

 

I can't believe someone actually thinks this. You actually think these two grieving family members, whose loved ones were butchered so publicly and whose reputations were (and still are, as this board shows) dragged through the mud because the POS who murdered them didn't have the decency to plead guilty--are using this for fame? Seriously? Like, seriously? I don't even know how to respond to that.

 

And no, Kim can stay right here. Sorry her grief and righteous outrage make you so uncomfortable you're calling her a liar. Cochrane was a shitheel and I have no difficulty believing her whatsoever.

 

Wow.

[BooBear]

I can't believe someone actually thinks this. You actually think these two grieving family members, whose loved ones were butchered so publicly and whose reputations were (and still are, as this board shows) dragged through the mud because the POS who murdered them didn't have the decency to plead guilty--are using this for fame? Seriously? Like, seriously? I don't even know how to respond to that.

Unfortunately, I went to Kim Goldman's Facebook page and about 50% of it is attacks.  I am not sure what causes it but I suspect that it is some sort of jealousy over the money they received from the civil settlement or continued support for OJ.

[BananaRama]

Taking response to casting thread.

Cuba Gooding, Jr. has the ability to play a charismatic athlete.  In fact he won an Oscar for playing a character like that in Jerry Maguire.

[VCRTracking]

Well he was acting opposite Tom Cruise. It's not hard to look as big as Rosie Greer standing next to him!

 

The dynamics are the "Dream Team" are the most compelling to me so far because I've already seen a lot of murder trials both fictional and real.

Edited February 27, 2016 by VCRTracking

[suomi]

Was it really "smearing" Nicole if what was said about her was true?  If that was the kind of life she had chosen to live, that information was pertinent to the case, especially the drug angle.

 

Was it really "smearing" OJ if what was said about him was true? If that was the kind of life he had chosen to live that information was pertinent to the case, especially the domestic violence angle.

[suomi]

You've stated this so well. I've read nearly all the books (not Faye's) and this was a quality in OJ I hadn't picked up on. He wanted to be adulated, but -- I suspect --- he felt so intellectually inferior to men such as he had gathered that he was something of a trembling coward with them. We didn't see it because they propped him up, but they sent fear to his narcissistic core. 

 

Intellectually inferior nails it. OJ was always top dog in his adult social life because of his charm, smooth patter and good looks but he was criticized in his professional life because of his diction and vocabulary. He had two goals after leaving football: being elected as a state senator and/or joining the board of directors of Hertz or another major corporation. His ego took a big blow when he finally came to realize that he lacked substance and finesse and was too poorly educated and experienced for either of those positions.

[suomi]

I posted this article in the Kardashian thread but thought I'd put it here too-- I didn't know anything about any Kardashians, so I was curious about Robert.  And this was written at the time of the civil trial.  Turns out, he had not been a personal friend of OJ, but when he was married to Kris, the two couples were friends and did a lot of socializing together.

 

I don't have time to read the article but it's incorrect if it says they were not friends before those marriages. When they met in 1970, RK and OJ took to each other right away. The years they saw less of each other were the Buffalo Bills years when OJ/Marguerite lived in NY. During the last couple years of his first marriage OJ stayed with RK during his marital tiffs with and separations from Marguerite. Nicole came on the scene in '77 and RK was among the friends OJ brought to The Daisy to take a look at his newest infatuation. Both couples formed at roughly the same time (which is how Kris met Nicole) and they spent weekends, holidays, vacations and special occasions together. By the time of the trial the two men had been close friends for 24 years.

[Isabella15]

I don't have time to read the article but it's incorrect if it says they were not friends before those marriages. When they met in 1970, RK and OJ took to each other right away. The years they saw less of each other were the Buffalo Bills years when OJ/Marguerite lived in NY. During the last couple years of his first marriage OJ stayed with RK during his marital tiffs with and separations from Marguerite. Nicole came on the scene in '77 and RK was among the friends OJ brought to The Daisy to take a look at his newest infatuation. Both couples formed at roughly the same time (which is how Kris met Nicole) and they spent weekends, holidays, vacations and special occasions together. By the time of the trial the two men had been close friends for 24 years.

I think I  misspoke (by saying they weren't personal friends, I meant the two of them didn't usually go do things together without the families) .  I should correct that post for clarity. 

The article pretty much recounts the correct info, as you have it above.   Thank you!  Good catch.  And yes 24 years is a long time.  A lot of memories to think about through the filter of that old friend being a killer.     

[psychoticstate]

Unfortunately, I went to Kim Goldman's Facebook page and about 50% of it is attacks.  I am not sure what causes it but I suspect that it is some sort of jealousy over the money they received from the civil settlement or continued support for OJ.

This is utterly shameful.  Do these people not understand that the Goldmans and Browns have collected very little of the judgment awarded to them?  And even if they had, do they honestly believe there is a dollar amount on Ron's life or Nicole's life? 

 

I get that maybe Kim's personality (and by extension, Fred's) may not be for everyone but I don't understand the anger and hatred.  I listened to Kim's book on audio and hearing her talk about Ron and the effect of his murder on the family had me in tears as I was driving down the road. 

[DangerousMinds]

IIRC, RK started dating Kris when she was 17/18 too. Squicks me out, the both of them.

[WicketyWack]

It seems to me the dialogue in this series was based partly on truth, partly on speculation, and partly on Ryan Murphy’s love of dropping irony bombs into the storyline that play on collective hindsight. (See: Robert Kardashian teaching his younglings that Kardashians aren’t interested in pursuing fame, but in building character.) In this epi, it was Lance Ito saying "This trial needs to be pure truth school. Let them see all the available facts so they make the right decision.” And revealing he was chosen for his “strong backbone.” We now know, of course, the amount of evidence that Ito allowed to be withheld from the jury ... and that he was anything but demonstrative of a “strong backbone,” reversing even his own decisions under pressure.

 

I was meh about Travolta’s performance as Shapiro until now … he sold it in this episode. I loved the almost imperceptible facial twitches in the elevator when hearing he should not be the one to speak to the press, and then in his outbursts in the judges’ chambers, to his wife, and when watching F. Lee Bailey backhandedly slam him on Larry King Live.

 

At the time of the case, I was in my early 20s and as caught up in the trial as anyone, but never read Faye Resnick’s tell-all. I knew she was a shitty friend who threw Nicole under the bus for a big book advance, but back then there was no social media to deliver all the dirty details whether I wanted to know them or not. Now that I know them, damn, with friends like that who needs enemies? It’s baffling to me that Faye Resnick apparently still has close friends who would tell her anything. Nicole was young, gorgeous, and living in celebrity circles in L.A. … coke use, Brentwood hellos and tons of sex aren’t exactly shocking revelations. But it’s nothing her kids ever wanted or needed to know about their murdered mother, and there’s no way they haven’t read all that by now.

 

I still agree that if they couldn’t make Cuba physically taller or bigger, at least cast bit players who are smaller and shorter than he is, and use camera angles and other tricks to make him appear taller. I mean, they’ve been doing that to Tom Cruise and other short actors for years — standing them on risers, putting them in shoes with lifts or platforms, or the other actors in trenches alongside him. Cuba should have worked with a voice coach to learn how to make his voice deeper. His “absolutely, 100 percent not guilty” sounded like a teenager squeaking out the words in contrast to OJ’s baritone. I’m still not buying him as OJ, other people apparently feel the same way, and it’s silly they didn’t take these relatively easy steps to make him more OJ-esque.

Edited February 28, 2016 by WicketyWack

[toodles]

I have never known anyone that expressed negativity toward Nicole. I cried when i heard the first verdict. All I could think about were those poor victims, incredibly brutally murdered.

Except Oj, the person that murdered her. In one of the secret tape shows they said he basically said she was such an awful person she deserved to die during his civil trial testimony.

This while he was on the stand and pictures of her battered face were playing on a slide show right behind his head.

[FuriousStyles]

Regarding some of the negativity toward Nicole: I suspect a racial divide on this. I have not met many people who have negative feelings toward Nicole, but the ones that have expressed them have been black women.

I am sharing my opinions as the daughter of a white, blue-eyed blonde who married a black men. My parents met in college where my father was a football star and my mother was a cheerleader (seriously).

My mom's family struggled with their marriage but my father's family HATED my mom. My mom spent decades being told that she had 'stolen' a successful black man from some more deserving black woman. My mom had strangers make comments to her about this, especially when she was out with us and people found out we were her biological children.

After the murders, one of my aunts said that she hoped OJ had 'learned his lesson' and would stick with black women from now on (I did not delve further into her meaning).

Black women in this country have such a difficult time, and so many young black men end up dead or in prison that it feels like a real betrayal to have a successful one partner with a white woman. It is seen as a rejection of black women and support of Eurocentric views of beauty: light eyes, light skin, straight hair. Black women are less likely to partner outside their race so many end up chronically single unless they have very high levels of education/income.

Your post reminded me of something Malcolm X said....the most disrespected, unprotected, and neglected person in America is the black woman. Its tough enough being a woman...and its doubly tough to be black. Most cant imagine how hard it is to be both. There is certainly some jealousy and resentment when it comes to that dynamic (successful black men choosing to marry white women). Some men have actually said they consider a white wife as a "prize" or something to aspire to. And I remember similar things being said about Tiger Woods after his mess became public in terms of him "learning his lesson". Though not sure if he counts since he doesnt think he's black to begin with, but whatever.

I think it was common practice to disparage the victim, especially if its a woman. Its why laws had to be instituted to protect the pasts/sexual history of rape victims.

For me personally, the murders were so brutal, there is absolutely nothing Nicole and Ron could have done to say they deserved it or to not sympathize with them. Just the way her body was found, all slumped over, curled up. So sad. But I understand why she became the symbol of the rejection and hurt that many black women felt.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

BTW, I seriously doubt Nicole was a cocaine addict, not that you were implying that. Lots of people in those circles, including OJ, did recreational cocaine and pot back then. Nicole was up early every morning, and running several miles, spent almost all of the rest of her time with her kids, went to lunch with girlfriends if the kids were in school, started going out dancing occasionally, and yes, flirting with guys or dating AFTER her divorce, basically trying to find a life after spending her entire adult life in an incredibly abusive, and passionate marriage. She was finding herself, finding out how to have a sexual life without OJ in it, on her own for the first time in her life. She basically went from her parent's house to being with another "grown up" --OJ.

She left the money and the lifestyle, but at the same time, it was all she knew, so she was out there trying to find out what else there might be for her, and some of those choices might not have been where she eventually ended up, had she had that chance.

Thank you for this! She ran several miles several days per week. No way some 35 year old with a drug habit is getting up to run like that several days per week and making it to lunches, school functions, etc. She may have occasionally done drugs recreationally, but so did OJ. As a runner in my early 30s, I feel pretty confident saying no way did Nicole have a drug problem.

(And no matter what she did or didn't do, she obviously did not deserve to be murdered.)

Edited February 28, 2016 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I agree with the posters who have said that Fred Goldman's open grief made many people uncomfortable and that's why many found him off-putting.

I found Travolta to be much better this episode. Maybe I'm just getting used to the wig/eyebrows and whatever is going on with his face.

Edited February 28, 2016 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Neurochick]

The scene with the focus groups was right on target.  Everything they said about Marcia Clark was accurate.    And the same was true for Nicole.  She was viewed by many as a gold digger.  And once the Resnick book came out, she was viewed even lower.  I have no idea what was and was not true from Resnick, but it sounds like Nicole was a piece of work and Faye was right there with her.

 

I did laugh at the scene of Robert reading the book and having to say, that's true.

 

It is interesting that OJ is practically a side character in his own story.    His best line last night was about Darden.

 

I thought one of the most interesting parts was the focus group.  I felt for Marcia Clark when they were talking about her because she had absolutely no clue as to how people saw her.  And I remember an old saying, "Black people know more about white people (because we have to) than white people know about black people (because they don't have to.)"  I felt bad for Clark in that scene because I could tell she was really gutted.  

 

I remember listening to a black talk radio program during the trial and yes, people did see Nicole as a gold digger and wondered why a women her age would go with a married man.  I remember one of the hosts saying, "when I was her age I didn't even know how to put my lipstick on straight, let alone sleep with a married man."  

 

What Marcia Clark didn't realize is that women view other women more harshly, even if the man is the one doing the cheating.  So Nicole was viewed more harshly than OJ.

 

The problem also was that the press didn't focus as much on Ron Goldman's murder; I mean all this man did was return a pair of glasses, that's why he was there.  He had nothing to do with OJ or Nicole.  Maybe Clark could have gotten a conviction had she focused more on Goldman's murder.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I remember, as a kid growing up in the South at the time of the murders, that many white people didn't find Nicole sympathetic because she had been married to a black guy. I remember people acting like her murder was a cautionary tale of why pretty white girls shouldn't date/marry/procreate with black guys. Granted, this was in the South and decades ago when that particular community had very few interracial couples.

I'm just thinking about our discussion here about how many black women didn't identify with Nicole because she was a white woman who married a successful black man. I'm sure there were plenty of whites who twenty years ago, didn't have sympathy for Nicole because she was white woman who married outside of her race, even in LA.

Edited February 28, 2016 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[suomi]

Nine miles was Nicole's usual morning run. Nine. Miles. She used coke (With OJ, Never Without Him) before her kids were born and then for the most part she gave it up. Hell, according to a "dealer to the stars," Kato and OJ weren't grabbing a burger that evening - they scored some coke and made the dealer leave the car while they snorted it.

 

I think one of the saddest things I ever came across was initial responding officer Riske's observation of "a female laying in a pool of blood larger than her body."

 

PS: according to the police log Fuhrman was the 17th officer to arrive on scene. Riske saw the one glove and the hat and the blood drops and bloody shoe prints long before Fuhrman arrived. As did Riske's immediate superior (a sergeant), as did the sergeant's immediate superior (a captain). I think I read somewhere that the total tally of officers who saw those things (especially Only The One Glove) before Fuhrman arrived was eleven.

 

Defense counsel should have been reprimanded when their client pled "Absolutely 100% Not Guilty" because, technically, that was testifying without taking the stand. One of the first of Cochran's dirty little tricks, which he used to take Ito's temperature.

Edited February 28, 2016 by suomi

[suomi]

I thought one of the most interesting parts was the focus group.  I felt for Marcia Clark when they were talking about her because she had absolutely no clue as to how people saw her.  And I remember an old saying, "Black people know more about white people (because we have to) than white people know about black people (because they don't have to.)"  I felt bad for Clark in that scene because I could tell she was really gutted. 

 

I agree, especially because she had a fan club of sorts: many older black people, parents and grandparents, had thanked her after previous trials. They cried together and they hugged, she received thank you letters, and some stayed in touch long after "their" trials were concluded. She had every reason to think that the Simpson jury was largely made up of "her people," settled citizens who sought justice when they or their family members were wronged. With her previous experience, she thought that passion for justice and empathy for devastating loss would once again rise to the fore.

[Asp Burger]

If I had lived through what the Goldmans lived through, and what Ron did not live through, I would never stop talking about it. Any time any media outlet made it clear that people were still listening, I would hold nothing back. It was horrible.  

 

Right after the civil trial verdict, Fred Goldman told OJ he'd forgo all about the money from the judgement if OJ would admit his guilt.

 

Thanks for the reminder of this. Blows out of the water the narrative some have tried to introduce over the years, which IMO is full of anti-Semitic dog whistling.  

Edited February 28, 2016 by Asp Burger

[Umbelina]

Kato said that he never drank and didn't do any drugs.  He was also a sports nut, and ran an average of 10 miles every morning, and then would often go play neighborhood basketball. 

 

I think the "Kato as drug dealer" stuff was just a rumor, people trying to figure out why Kato was living at Rockingham rent free.  The truth was, Kato met Nicole on some ski trip, then ran into her again at a party she gave.  He admired her guest house and jokingly suggested he move in.  She said sure, and they made a deal.  Kato also had a young daughter part time visitation, and his girl and her kids got along.  Nicole liked the way her kids loved him, and offered him the guesthouse for $500 a month and babysitting occasionally.  The kids liked him so much they named the dog after him.  Nicole confided in him about the beatings, and about Marcus Allen, and even told him she thought she might be able to fall in love with him.  Kato told her that they were better as friends. 

 

OJ pulled some shit with the IRS that would have bankrupt Nicole, because she didn't have much money and was claiming her home was a rental.  She had to move fast and the new place didn't have a guesthouse, but Nicole told Kato he could have the spare bedroom for the same rent/babysitting deal.  OJ HATED that, and turned on the charm, offering Kato FREE rent (and the pool, etc.) Kato took the deal.  Nicole never forgave him, and told him that "OJ buys all my friends away.  I have no one."

 

So that is how he ended up at Rockingham, and until the night of the murders, rarely, if ever, even saw OJ, let alone socialized with him.  OJ obviously  changed his ways that night to use Kato as his alibi.  He said he was going out for a burger, and because he'd been friendly for the first time ever to Kato that day, Kato, being hungry, suggested he come with.  OJ was silent but took him.  I think that's when he'd planned to murder Nicole.  Instead he didn't ask Kato where they should go, went to the nearest McDonalds, and thru the drive thru, finishing his hamburger before they even got out of the parking lot.  It was the Bentley, so Kato, who never ate at McDonalds, being a health hut, held his chicken sandwich until they got home, afraid of dropping crumbs, and intimidated by the silent glaring OJ.  He drove them home and then, still silent, stared at Kato and stood by the Bentley, so Kato went back to his room, feeling creeped out.  He called friends and was on the phone with one with the loud thumps knocked the picture on the wall askew 7 inches.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Umbelina

[Bama]

The whole "Nicole was a habitual cocaine user" narrative has been widely discounted as the autopsy report showed no damage at all to her nasal cavity or septum.  No evidence of regular drug use was found and she had no drugs at all in her system at the time of her death - she did have a small amount of alcohol in her system.  Her dinner companions from that night reported she had a couple of glasses of wine with dinner.

 

I don't doubt that Nicole had tried cocaine - it was the 80s in Los Angeles after all but this oft repeated refrain of her being an addict and cocaine fiend is just a bunch of horseshit.

[Milburn Stone]

It seems to me the dialogue in this series was based partly on truth, partly on speculation, and partly on Ryan Murphy’s love of dropping irony bombs into the storyline that play on collective hindsight. (See: Robert Kardashian teaching his younglings that Kardashians aren’t interested in pursuing fame, but in building character.) In this epi, it was Lance Ito saying "This trial needs to be pure truth school..."

 

I think you've correctly identified the recipe, and it works for me. It might not work for me if it weren't so easy to tell which parts are Ryan Murphy's own irony bombs, but it is pretty easy. So for me, they are darkly amusing leavening ingredients which help make the show as enjoyable as it is.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Milburn Stone

[Neurochick]

Your post reminded me of something Malcolm X said....the most disrespected, unprotected, and neglected person in America is the black woman.

 

 

This is another reason why Nicole was so vilified IMO.  Many black women felt that Nicole "stole" OJ from his black wife and family.  Many black women also felt that had OJ killed a black woman, there would have never been as much media coverage of the trial as there was; I know I felt that way at that time, still do.

[ClareWalks]

I was very amused by OJ's football metaphors in the demotion of Shapiro. "You're the quarterback...and Johnnie's the runningback...but the thing is, we're not gonna be throwing the ball all that much." I sat on my couch extrapolating on the metaphor. "Thing is, Bob, I'm the offensive coordinator, and we're gonna be handing it off for most of the snaps. We need you to be less of a Tom Brady, and more of a Teddy Bridgewater. Like, Peyton's arm isn't so great anymore, so Johnnie is CJ Anderson, and you're Peyton, and we're at 3rd and 2 and we're just gonna hand off and pound it past the inside linebacker, Marcia Clark. We gotta pick up this first down so that we can get in field goal range. Do you get what I'm saying, Bob?"

[psychoticstate]

I thought one of the most interesting parts was the focus group.  I felt for Marcia Clark when they were talking about her because she had absolutely no clue as to how people saw her.  And I remember an old saying, "Black people know more about white people (because we have to) than white people know about black people (because they don't have to.)"  I felt bad for Clark in that scene because I could tell she was really gutted.  

 

I remember listening to a black talk radio program during the trial and yes, people did see Nicole as a gold digger and wondered why a women her age would go with a married man.  I remember one of the hosts saying, "when I was her age I didn't even know how to put my lipstick on straight, let alone sleep with a married man."  

 

What Marcia Clark didn't realize is that women view other women more harshly, even if the man is the one doing the cheating.  So Nicole was viewed more harshly than OJ.

 

The problem also was that the press didn't focus as much on Ron Goldman's murder; I mean all this man did was return a pair of glasses, that's why he was there.  He had nothing to do with OJ or Nicole.  Maybe Clark could have gotten a conviction had she focused more on Goldman's murder.

I felt bad for Clark too but she basically lost the case once she disregarded the jury consultant.  Once that jury was seated, the case was effectively over.

 

I think even if she had focused more on Ron, Simpson would still have been acquitted.  The jury make up was predisposed to believe in Simpson's innocence and they hated Marcia Clark. 

 

That said, I think I've always felt more connected to Ron because of his utter innocence in the entire situation.  He had no previous contact with Simpson (which makes the presence of his blood in Simpson's car, home and on his clothing even more telling) and no role whatsoever in the marital relationship and breakdown of Simpson and Nicole.  He was a young guy who hadn't even begun to live his life and find himself yet and Simpson robbed him of that when he cut him down because Ron was in the wrong place and walked up on what Simpson was doing to Nicole. 

 

That's not to say that I have no sympathy for Nicole because I do and I have terrible sympathy for Sydney and Justin.  But Ron tears my heart up - - maybe because our birthdays were only days apart.  I think of everything that I've done, accomplished and felt since 1994 that he was deprived of and it just guts me.

 

 

If I had lived through what the Goldmans lived through, and what Ron did not live through, I would never stop talking about it. Any time any media outlet made it clear that people were still listening, I would hold nothing back. It was horrible.  

 

 

Thanks for the reminder of this. Blows out of the water the narrative some have tried to introduce over the years, which IMO is full of anti-Semitic dog whistling.  

 

Me too.  If it had been my brother, I would never leave it alone.  I'd be fighting until my last breath to remind people of my brother and what his killer had done to him.

This is another reason why Nicole was so vilified IMO.  Many black women felt that Nicole "stole" OJ from his black wife and family.  Many black women also felt that had OJ killed a black woman, there would have never been as much media coverage of the trial as there was; I know I felt that way at that time, still do.

 

I respectfully disagree.  No matter who Simpson murdered, the trial would have been a circus because he was a celebrity  - one previously and publicly known as a nice all-American man. 

[Simon Boccanegra]

It's somewhere between the poles of opinion, I think. Simpson had been a well-known public figure in sports and entertainment for more than 20 years, so the story would have been huge no matter the race of his wife. If he'd been dating a black woman, not even married to her, and were accused of brutally killing her, the murder would have been the story on page one, and the trial would have received a lot of coverage.  

 

But Nicole being a beautiful and younger blond woman did give the story the Othello resonances. Beyond a "literary" level, the racial angle opened it up for all those think pieces, debates and tangents that often went far afield of what's usually discussed in a murder case.

 

So, this would have been a big story regardless, and race would have been brought into it anyway (re: the propriety of the detectives, the recent and more distant history of the LAPD and the courts), but the issues of an interracial marriage gave it more -- forgive me -- "juice."  

Edited February 28, 2016 by Simon Boccanegra

[Milburn Stone]

I felt bad for Clark too but she basically lost the case once she disregarded the jury consultant.  Once that jury was seated, the case was effectively over.

 

That's no doubt true. The speed of the not-guilty verdict makes me think there weren't even two jurors on that panel who thought he was guilty. If there had been, there'd be no way the verdict could be delivered in four hours. Surely those two jurors (if they existed) would be saying, "Wait just a goldarn minute here--we may never convince you, but we're sure not ready to release a murderer without even trying."

[Epeolatrix]

According to some of the jurors (whose book I read), the question wasn't "did he do it", the question was "did the state prove it". At least a couple of them did think he was guilty, but that was a moral determination. They felt they had to apply the law as it was explained to them, based on allowable known evidence (we knew things they didn't), and to them it meant reasonable doubt.

I'm not sure all their doubts were what I'd think of as reasonable, but it wasn't this simplistic racist/classist/ageist anti-Nicole anti-LAPD vote.

[Neurochick]

I think even if she had focused more on Ron, Simpson would still have been acquitted.  The jury make up was predisposed to believe in Simpson's innocence and they hated Marcia Clark.

 

 

I disagree somewhat with this.  I think they could have got a hung jury.  Why?  Because Ron Goldman was a working stiff.  He was a guy who worked as a waiter; maybe he was a wannabe actor/model, but it was LA.  The truth was that he was a waiter, a person with a regular job who got killed because he went to return a pair of glasses.  

 

Every person on that jury who either had a service job, or knew of a person with a service job would have realized that Ron returned the glasses himself because he probably hoped to get a tip, which is what a lot of folks in those types of job do to survive.   See, I tip service people very well in general, and more if they do something special for me.  If they did the closing with THAT, and had Darden do it instead of Clark, maybe the verdict would have been different but YMMV.

[MaryMitch]

I was on a sequestered jury once - just for a week, thankfully. After the trial I read the newspaper coverage, and I was amazed at (1) the information that was kept from the jury, and (2) parts of the trial that the media emphasized that the jury didn't even consider. I'll bet most lawyers will tell you that you never know what a jury is going to do.

[Deanie87]

I remember, as a kid growing up in the South at the time of the murders, that many white people didn't find Nicole sympathetic because she had been married to a black guy. I remember people acting like her murder was a cautionary tale of why pretty white girls shouldn't date/marry/procreate with black guys. Granted, this was in the South and decades ago when that particular community had very few interracial couples.

I'm just thinking about our discussion here about how many black women didn't identify with Nicole because she was a white woman who married a successful black man. I'm sure there were plenty of whites who twenty years ago, didn't have sympathy for Nicole because she was white woman who married outside of her race, even in LA.

 

I didn't grow up in the South and I still remember being shocked by this attitude, but also by the reverse.  I had white friends/family/acquaintances who used the situation as a cautionary tale for white women who date or marry black men, but also had black friends/family/acquaintances who used the situation as a cautionary tale for black men getting involved with white women.  I said this before in one of the other episode threads, but I can't tell you how shocked I was by both of these attitudes.  For context, I am white (blonde hair/blue eyed white) and was in my idealistic early 20s when this all happened, but I have black family members through marriage and I grew up in Prince George's County, MD, which is a predominantly black suburb of Washington DC.  So its not like I was unaware of racial attitudes or tension.  But the trial really brought out some ugly things from people I had known all my life.  When I say that family gatherings were interesting, they were really interesting LOL!  Even those in inter-racial marriages had something to say about it!

 

I also remember a Chris Rock joke about Nicole and OJ that I have always hated.  I can't remember exactly how it went, but something along the lines of "I'm not saying OJ should have done it, but I understand."  Blech.  I have always loved Chris Rock and still do, but there is just nothing funny about that.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Deanie87

[psychoticstate]

According to some of the jurors (whose book I read), the question wasn't "did he do it", the question was "did the state prove it". At least a couple of them did think he was guilty, but that was a moral determination. They felt they had to apply the law as it was explained to them, based on allowable known evidence (we knew things they didn't), and to them it meant reasonable doubt.

I'm not sure all their doubts were what I'd think of as reasonable, but it wasn't this simplistic racist/classist/ageist anti-Nicole anti-LAPD vote.

 

I think the jurors are being a bit disingenuous by claiming the prosecutors didn't prove guilt.  They had a defendant that had a documented violent past with one of the victims, with no alibi, a deep cut on one finger that happened at the same time as the murders and whose blood was found at the crime scene, as well as the victims' blood being found in his vehicle, home and on his clothing.  The only thing missing was either a direct confession by Simpson or a video of him committing the murders. 

 

I don't think the jury truly understand reasonable doubt.  I think the defense played the race card/LAPD corruption card because they had nothing else.  They couldn't claim their client had an alibi - - he didn't.  They couldn't claim he was innocent because he had no violent past or tendencies - - because he did.  They couldn't claim there was no physical evidence connecting their client to the crime - - there was. 

 

The jury simply did not want to convict.  And so they didn't.. 

 

I disagree somewhat with this.  I think they could have got a hung jury.  Why?  Because Ron Goldman was a working stiff.  He was a guy who worked as a waiter; maybe he was a wannabe actor/model, but it was LA.  The truth was that he was a waiter, a person with a regular job who got killed because he went to return a pair of glasses.  

 

Every person on that jury who either had a service job, or knew of a person with a service job would have realized that Ron returned the glasses himself because he probably hoped to get a tip, which is what a lot of folks in those types of job do to survive.   See, I tip service people very well in general, and more if they do something special for me.  If they did the closing with THAT, and had Darden do it instead of Clark, maybe the verdict would have been different but YMMV.

And Nicole was a mother with young children.  I hate to say it but the jury didn't give a damn about Ron Goldman - - just like the media.  Ron Goldman didn't sell papers, he wasn't "glamourous."   The jury only cared about Nicole in the sense that she was perceived as a bitch and a gold digger, who stole a successful African American man, and who deserved what happened to her.  They had less sympathy for her - - a murder victim who was very nearly decapitated - - than they did for Simpson, who was the person who nearly decapitated her (after years of emotional and physical abuse.)  

 

I don't think it would have mattered if Darden had been first chair.  The black community viewed him as an Uncle Tom, a traitor for going after Simpson and opposing Cochran. 

[Neurochick]

I don't think it would have mattered if Darden had been first chair.  The black community viewed him as an Uncle Tom, a traitor for going after Simpson and opposing Cochran.

 

 

I'm black but I didn't know that the entire black community viewed Darden as an Uncle Tom.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Neurochick

[Umbelina]

He addresses that in his book.  It happened, it gutted him, and it was frequent.

[starri]

You know, as much as I know we've basically seen Clark lose the case with this episode, I'm still having a hard time not rooting for her anyway.  Maybe it's just because Sarah Paulson's performance is just so damned good, or maybe they're being more sympathetic toward her than they should, but I'm having a much more positive reaction to the fictionalized version than I did to the real thing.  Maybe that's just the difference of looking at this as a grown man and not a teenager, but it's quite a difference.

 

Her "Game On" face to Cochran at the end of the episode?  Best part of it.

[Kel Varnsen]

I think the jurors are being a bit disingenuous by claiming the prosecutors didn't prove guilt.  They had a defendant that had a documented violent past with one of the victims, with no alibi, a deep cut on one finger that happened at the same time as the murders and whose blood was found at the crime scene, as well as the victims' blood being found in his vehicle, home and on his clothing.  The only thing missing was either a direct confession by Simpson or a video of him committing the murders. 

 

I don't think the jury truly understand reasonable doubt.  I think the defense played the race card/LAPD corruption card because they had nothing else.  They couldn't claim their client had an alibi - - he didn't.  They couldn't claim he was innocent because he had no violent past or tendencies - - because he did.  They couldn't claim there was no physical evidence connecting their client to the crime - - there was.

To look at it from the flip side the defense totally discredited the DNA evidence thanks to pretty terrible evidence collection. They exposed that one of the main detectives was a racist (and in turn suggested systematic racism in the LAPD) and to top it off the DA let OJ try on the glove and it didn't fit. Plus the DA didn't even bother to present any evidence from the Bronco chase, including the get away gear and the suicide note. As I mentioned in another thread just because everyone knows the defendant did it that doesn't give the DA a pass. And if I am an average jury then I am thinking yea maybe they didn't present a good enough case to the point where other possibilities were not unreasonable.

And speaking of the glove after the DA was dumb enough to let OJ try it on and it didn't fit, did they ever at least try to offer up any explanation as to why? I mean it was a commercially available glove right (as opposed to custom tailored)? If it doesn't fit then your next piece of evidence should be the exact same glove bought from a store, to show that it is obviously bigger than the one soaked in blood and left outside overnight. Or you just get an expert glove witness to testify that it would have shrunk. Did the DA do anything like that?

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

You know, as much as I know we've basically seen Clark lose the case with this episode, I'm still having a hard time not rooting for her anyway.  Maybe it's just because Sarah Paulson's performance is just so damned good, or maybe they're being more sympathetic toward her than they should, but I'm having a much more positive reaction to the fictionalized version than I did to the real thing.  Maybe that's just the difference of looking at this as a grown man and not a teenager, but it's quite a difference.

 

Her "Game On" face to Cochran at the end of the episode?  Best part of it.

I completely agree. I was rooting for at the end of that episode and had to remind myself the outcome isn't going to be different than it was in the real trial.

[starri]

I completely agree. I was rooting for at the end of that episode and had to remind myself the outcome isn't going to be different than it was in the real trial.

The other thing, regardless of the outcome that we all know is coming, I can't help but be impressed that she is in no way, shape, or form, intimidated by the table with all the famous, high-powered lawyers sitting next to her.

Edited February 29, 2016 by starri