S03.E14: Lady Ambrosia

[Tara Ariano]

Red and Liz target a woman who may be kidnapping children. Meanwhile, Tom comes up against shocking consequences after his plan to help Liz goes awry.

[Danielg342]

The original press release said that Tom was in a “life-threatening situation”. I wonder what changed.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Red and Liz target a woman who may be kidnapping children. Meanwhile, Tom comes up against shocking consequences after his plan to help Liz goes awry.

 

"May" be kidnapping children.  That's it.   Hardly worthy of being a blacklister.  If that's how low they are going to justify going after a so-called blacklister, might they think about taking out actual criminals vs. possible criminals.  So what happens if she wasn't kidnapping children ?  Does Red just cut her a cheque and apologize for the mistake and all the torture that accompanied it.

 

When I first saw the episode title, I thought the Blacklister of the week was Lizzie's new dog (that has since gone missing mid-scene).  Here Lady Ambrosia, come here girl.

[AimingforYoko]

I'm sorry, did the show just rip off Ordinary People?

[ottoDbusdriver]

I genuinely didn't think it was possible for Lizzie to become even stupider than she already is, but there you have it -- she nearly burned down her apartment while cooking toaster waffles in a frying pan on a gas-powered stove with a roll of paper towels too close to the burner.  I'm just surprised this is the first time this has happened.   Was this supposed to be some comedy element so that the Blacklist could get into the comedy category for Emmy consideration next year ?

 

So Lady Ambrosia wasn't kidnapping children so much as parents were paying to get rid of children that the parents no longer wanted.  Not really the same thing. 

 

There's no way that they would let Ethan stay with Lizzie -- for starters, she's not actually a member of the FBI. Secondly, she can't even take care of a dog.

 

Enough with the Lizzie baby dramatics, and Red did this all for some file on Lizzie's mom. FFS !!

 

I was glad to see Glen once again.  Hope he takes better care of those dogs than Lizzie took care of her dog.  

 

And did anyone else notice that Lizzie's new dog was no where to be seen ?

Edited February 12, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[bannana]

Who is the actress that was kidnapping the children?  I could not find her on the cast list, but she is sooo familiar!

[Brian Cronin]

Ressler's "I don't believe people should give their kids up for adoption" weirded me out.  I mean, okay, I understand that is is fair play to have characters have different opinions on stuff solely for the sake of dramatic conflict. But that's usually reserved for positions that actual people have, like having a character be religious to conflict with a character who isn't. Are there actually people who don't believe that anyone should ever give their kids up for adoption? 

[Free]

"May" be kidnapping children.  That's it.   Hardly worthy of being a blacklister.  If that's how low they are going to justify going after a so-called blacklister, might they think about taking out actual criminals vs. possible criminals.  So what happens if she wasn't kidnapping children ?  Does Red just cut her a cheque and apologize for the mistake and all the torture that accompanied it.

When I first saw the episode title, I thought the Blacklister of the week was Lizzie's new dog (that has since gone missing mid-scene).  Here Lady Ambrosia, come here girl.

 

The dog would've been better.

 

I genuinely didn't think it was possible for Lizzie to become even stupider than she already is, but there you have it -- she nearly burned down her apartment while cooking toaster waffles in a frying pan on a gas-powered stove with a roll of paper towels too close to the burner.  I'm just surprised this is the first time this has happened.   Was this supposed to be some comedy element so that the Blacklist could get into the comedy category for Emmy consideration next year ?

 

Between this and last week's stupidity of Liz using her real name, she's getting dumber by the episode.  It was almost like a slap stick comedy.

[Brian Cronin]

Who is the actress that was kidnapping the children?  I could not find her on the cast list, but she is sooo familiar!

Celia Weston. Longtime character actress in tons of movies, but probably best known (to her ultimate regret, as it sort of stuck her as "only" a character actress) as one of the waitresses on Alice during the 1980s. Most recently, she was Cam's mom on Modern Family and she was on American Horror Story: Freak Show

[orza]

Ressler's "I don't believe people should give their kids up for adoption" weirded me out.  I mean, okay, I understand that is is fair play to have characters have different opinions on stuff solely for the sake of dramatic conflict. But that's usually reserved for positions that actual people have, like having a character be religious to conflict with a character who isn't. Are there actually people who don't believe that anyone should ever give their kids up for adoption? 

Of course there are people who share Ressler's opinion. People have all sorts of different opinions.

[DEM]

Tom is a freaking cockroach.  What kind of professional killer sprays an enclosed space with a gazillion bullets yet manages to hit one of the targets only in the leg? Pathetic.

 

Lizzie is just sad.  Are we going to have to endure family-related Blacklisters each week until Megan Boone pops out the wee one? Ugh.

 

Can you imagine being adoptive parents and having to deal with Lizzie and her ideas of "qualified contact"?  I wanted to warn the nice couple to run far away.

 

Ressler's "I don't believe people should give their kids up for adoption" weirded me out.

 

Ressler can be rigid and self-righteous at times.

Edited February 12, 2016 by DEM

[ottoDbusdriver]

Lizzie is just sad.  Are we going to have to endure family-related Blacklisters each week until Megan Boone pops out the wee one? Ugh.

 

Next week on a very special episode of 'The Blacklist', Lizzie has yet another reservation about giving her child for adoption, Red commits unbelievable levels of resources in order to do something to protect Lizzie (and we will never find out why), Lizzie states that she is done with Reddington (again), Ressler becomes indignant over the issue of the week, Aram continues to not get laid by Navabi or anyone else for that matter, Tom continues to be on a much better show, Lizzie's dog continues to be missing (and no one cares), and Dembe stands off to the side while silently contemplating his 401K investments.

 

Can you imagine being the adoptive parents to her child and having to deal with her and her ideas of "qualified contact"?  I wanted to yell at the nice couple to run far away.

 

That nice couple need to GTFO and run far, far away from Lizzie --  and never look back.  Lizzie would be horrible as the "fun aunt" in an open adoption.

Edited February 12, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[dwmarch]

Well again, as much as there are specific and valid nits to pick with this episode, I liked it nonetheless. The last couple of episodes have been making me wonder if there have been changes in the writer's room. The show is never going to be great television but at least now it's not a show I watch for snark value only.

 

Having said that however, I must note the scene in which Lizzie almost burns her new apartment down by trying to cook waffles on the stove. Jesus fuck, Lizzie! When she wrote "can barely take care of myself" on her list of reasons why she shouldn't have a child she wasn't kidding! I was also a little confused by Red's guy coming in with his gun drawn like he was going to shoot the fire and make it go away. I guess his instinct is "smoke alarm = some shit going down" but a fire extinguisher would have been more apropos.

 

My absolute favorite moment had to be Red personally taking time to find a new and loving home for those adorable Pomeranian puppies. I believe TVTropes defines this kind of situation as a "brick joke" and it occurs to me that we have far too few of these on this show.

 

I am also confused as to why Tom called Lizzie when he did. The crew is whooping it up after a successful heist and that's when he decides to call a former FBI agent who is now working for them as an "asset"? Gina Zanetakos is begging him to come along to Zurich and he doesn't put two and two together? Tom is supposed to be crafty and this incident seems to show the exact opposite.

 

I did really appreciate that the FBI is asking what Red is getting out of this. It has been far too long since they've asked these kinds of questions.

Edited February 12, 2016 by dwmarch

[Chaos Theory]

Strap in everyone this season is going to be all about Lizzie waffling about giving up her baby for adoption. It the way the show rolls.

The episode was the least interesting of the season for me but I have enjoyed the season so far mostly so I am ok with the occasional off episode. Woman who kidnaps unwanted kids and kills them when they stop being kids.

I am at least liking the friendshipy between Liz and Navabi

[Primetimer]

This week's Blacklist includes carnivorous butterflies for almost no reason.

Read the story

[33kaitykaity]

Enough with the Lizzie baby dramatics, and Red did this all for some file on Lizzie's mom. FFS !!

 

Tedious and tiresome.  Yes, MB is pregnant.  Get over it already.  

Edited February 12, 2016 by 33kaitykaity

[JoeSchwike]

Strap in everyone this season is going to be all about Lizzie waffling about giving up her baby for adoption. It the way the show rolls.

Nice pun on the waffles...  Seriously, why does Liz even have a half-empty box of Eggos in the freezer if she doesn't own a toaster, or a microwave?  Why would she buy them?  How did she cook the first two?  Were they left over from the previous tenant???  I get they were going for the 'hopeless housewife' feeling, but that was strange.  

 

I am also thankful, as someone else mentioned, that Red was smart enough not to place the Pomeranians with Liz, but to find a good home with a respectable (if shady) government employee. 

[Chaos Theory]

Nice pun on the waffles... Seriously, why does Liz even have a half-empty box of Eggos in the freezer if she doesn't own a toaster, or a microwave? Why would she buy them? How did she cook the first two? Were they left over from the previous tenant??? I get they were going for the 'hopeless housewife' feeling, but that was strange.

I am also thankful, as someone else mentioned, that Red was smart enough not to place the Pomeranians with Liz, but to find a good home with a respectable (if shady) government employee.

It was supposed to be a sight gag with a smidge of keening behind it. Liz lives like a bachelor. Closest thing to food she has is waffles and she burned down the house when she makes them while trying to take care of a special needs kid. How is she going to take care of her own kid?

The guy running in from next door was funny though.

[Mrs peel]

I genuinely didn't think it was possible for Lizzie to become even stupider than she already is, but there you have it -- she nearly burned down her apartment while cooking toaster waffles in a frying pan on a gas-powered stove with a roll of paper towels too close to the burner.  I'm just surprised this is the first time this has happened.   Was this supposed to be some comedy element so that the Blacklist could get into the comedy category for Emmy consideration next year ?

 

So Lady Ambrosia wasn't kidnapping children so much as parents were paying to get rid of children that the parents no longer wanted.  Not really the same thing. 

 

There's no way that they would let Ethan stay with Lizzie -- for starters, she's not actually a member of the FBI. Secondly, she can't even take care of a dog.

 

Enough with the Lizzie baby dramatics, and Red did this all for some file on Lizzie's mom. FFS !!

 

I was glad to see Glen once again.  Hope he takes better care of those dogs than Lizzie took care of her dog.  

 

And did anyone else notice that Lizzie's new dog was no where to be seen ?

Even dumber, for a former FBI agent, she is informed  there's a threat, and she blissfully opens wide the apt front door rather than looking in - say - the peephole!  Or calling up her watcher to see if someone is in the hallway.  Nope, no reason to do that due diligence, let's just open the front door, complete with child standing directly in front of the door too.

 

I think technically Lady Ambrosia was kidnapping the kids from one (of the 2) parents.

 

At this point Tom should be wising up and getting the heck away from her.

 

Didn't like this episode much.  I am sick and tired of Lizzy's background mystery.  I don't care.....

[Free]

Lizzie is just sad.  Are we going to have to endure family-related Blacklisters each week until Megan Boone pops out the wee one? Ugh.

 

Yep, it's why the latest Blacklisters have been less and less interesting, on top of losing momentum from the fugitive arc while moving on to Liz's baby arc.

[saber5055]

The nominees for Best of Blacklist are in! In the Blooper Line category:

Line as delivered: Lizzie to Red: "I can't even cook waffles without a guy with a gun breaking into my house."

Real line: Lizzie to Red: "I can't even cook waffles without almost burning down my house."

 

In the Best Scene Ever category:

Red giving the two Poms to the DMV guy. Those dogs were ADORABLE and behaved perfectly during that scene. What a heart-melter. (Plus no wayward tongue on the one on the left.)

 

In the Scene Paying Homage to Another Show:

The boy drawing upside down under the bed with the ASTRONAUT PEN from Seinfeld. You know, the pen that writes upside down that Jerry wouldn't give back.

 

I saw Leslie Jones on Seth Meyers and she talked about seeing Spader on the street and getting a selfie with him, then telling him how crazy in love with him she is. She said that worked into a walk-on in an episode, which was on last night. So if it seemed odd and out-of-place (and it was!), that was put in for Leslie and her crush on Spader. It went on a little too long, but knowing what was behind it, I was okay with it. Red in her exercise class ... funny.

 

Carnivorous butterflies ... who knew.

 

Tom, Tom, Tom ... a woman scorned. You should know your ex better than that.

[Risky Librarian]

I am a big old softy, because I teared up a couple of times during this episode. Seriously, I know I've probably said it a million times already, but James Spader is just so much better than this show that he elevates all of the overwrought, weirdly written dreck the script provides and turns it into something else with nothing more than good, subtle changes of facial expression. Returning that little girl to her mother, watching them embrace each other...my desk is really dusty, you guys. It's a shame. I should clean more often. >.>

 

You guys, Aram needs a girlfriend. I have no ideas; I just felt like that needed saying.

 

Gina couldn't have Tom, so she had him shot with a bunch of other dudes in the back of a van. Achievement unlocked: Master Class-level Crazy Ex. Congratulations?

[saber5055]

I did wonder about one thing this episode. For how many seasons has Lizzie been all about "Who is my father, where is my mother" ad nauseam. Between all of us, we can't count the number of times Lizzie has harped on about that, with Red ignoring her. Then this week Red dumps the entire story on her all at once, without prompting?

 

Maybe the writers wanted it done with even more than we did. Not that any of us care about it any more. Or ever did, ever, in my case.

My absolute favorite moment had to be Red personally taking time to find a new and loving home for those adorable Pomeranian puppies.

I'm hoping those two pups will be sitting on the guy's desk, just hanging out (sans tongue), when Red makes his next DMV visit.

Edited February 12, 2016 by saber5055

[krimimimi]

Enjoyed this ep. Not because the villain of the week was super interesting, but because of everything else. Which works for me. Over focusing on the villains frequently comes at the expense of the rest, which I enjoy more anyway. I think a mix of episodes does the trick nicely. Red has goals he's persuing, and we're allowed a peek! Yay! Cooper questions Red's motives (and welcome back, Sir. this is why you're needed.)! All the little side reoccurring characters. I LOVE them! The dogs! Go writers, go Red!

But I just don't get this show and how it can be so inconsistent. I was watching alone, so my reactions were just that and for no one else's benefit. And it's like the minute Lizzie appears, I just sigh resignedly. I derive no enjoyment from her character. And then she brings the kid to her place, and no sign of the dog. Tom's out committing crimes, so it's not like the pup's with him. And I'm annoyed again.

And then the grey haired henchman shows up, and I smile. And the DMV guy is an ass, and I smile. And hey there's Dembe, and I smile some more. Or the interrogator with the respirator (and a llama? is the llama new?) and still more smiling takes place. None of these guys have had a lot of lines on this show, most haven't even had much screen time, and yet I like *all* of them more, and feel I have a better handle on their characters, than Lizzie. (And Ressler's not that much better, really.) Interestingly, all four of the aforementioned gentlemen and my personal fave Mr. Kaplan have competence as a unifying characteristic, and that's something I feel Lizzie is frequently shown to lack. (Waffles, anyone?) But it's not just competence that makes the difference. Sure DMV and respirator guys profit from being sketched as character-rich characters, but they still bring more to their roles. The GHH, to pick one, just has a bunch of facial expressions that make me think I'd like him as a neighbor. That's acting. Even guest stars like the teacher or the lady at the DMV make their characters more engaging than our female lead. Some of it's writing, but not all.

And oh my god! Red brings Shaloub's dogs to DMV guy! Continuity! With DOGS! I was convinced that was not a thing on this show. It's like whenever something comes in Lizzie's immediate orbit, the quality tanks. No continuity for *her* dog. No siree. Why is this happening?

And in an episode about how children are snatched from a loving parent, which they all were, how are we supposed to sympathize with Lizzie as she keeps making plans to give her child up for adoption against Tom's expressed wishes. And how is it she is supposed to be allowed to play a role in the child's life, but he is completely excluded from the process? How is that not sexist? I really think the writers want me to hate her. But at the least, they don't seem to like her any more than I do.

Calling it now, Red is going to vastly improve Tom's life (assuming he once again doesn't die) as part of operation keep Lizzie's baby in the family. Of course, if he died, she'd get all sentimental and keep it anyway, so I guess we're stuck with the rugrat.

It was supposed to be a sight gag with a smidge of keening behind it.

I see what you did there.

[nutty1]

Maybe it's because of Spader, but I keep loving this show!! I just watched last night's episode and was thrilled Red was showcased so much. I also love every glimpse I get of Aram too. And the DMV and the llama guy? Pure entertainment. I sort of ignore Lizzie and just enjoy everyone else!

But who was the little boy who pulled back the shower curtain on Tom??

[Danielg342]

Criminal Minds gave us an UnSub who claimed he wasn't kidnapping children, but "saving" them. Of course, since his story was a take on Ariel Castro's, we know how that went.

 

Which leads us to this episode, where Lady Ambrosia also asserts she's not a kidnapper but a rescuer- before gassing her children and sending them down a well when they hit 12.

 

Both stories had an interesting idea that could have been made even more interesting if the criminal wound up doing a better job raising the children than the parents who didn't want them, creating a real quandary for the authorities- is it really "saving" a child if all you're doing is taking them from a criminal who loves them and returns them to parents who abuse them?

 

I'll give The Blacklist this much, in that their story was better developed. I still think the writing let it down though.

 

Perhaps I should have predicted in the middle of Lizzie's adoption drama that we'd get a case that deals with adoption issues. Why else would Lizzie make the connection that in an adoption situation both parents need to be in on the adoption for it to work? She couldn't have made that connection because she's fighting that issue with Tom, right? Of course, I should have known that Red would introduce this case as some sort of "lesson" for Lizzie, telling her the real worth of having a child.

 

Blech. So contrived and heavy handed.

 

Still, I was entertained. Pacing did suck, but it was a coherent story and overall, the story writing choices made sense. Plus Red, as always, was cool.

 

As for Tom- someone called him a "cockroach"...sounds about right. It's awfully convenient of the writers that the one time their mooks get Stormtrooper Marksmanship is when there's someone with Plot Armour in the back of the truck. Seriously, guys, you're not fooling me. Also, what was with Tom stumbling and entering someone's apartment to fix himself up before fainting in the shower? How did no one call the police right away? How did Tom even live through all of that?

 

I still hope that with his new lease on life, Tom realizes Gina is the one for her and escapes with her to Zurich...he's so much better with her.

 

B. Mostly because of Red's cool hat.

[forum4idiots]

was a meh episode.  only worth watching because of the dmv guy and tom.  everything else was filler garbage.

[ottoDbusdriver]

But who was the little boy who pulled back the shower curtain on Tom??

 

I think Tom just broke into some random house to try and patch himself up -- and the kid lived there, and it was probably the kid's parents that called the ambulance.

[AbsoluteShower]

I was more than half expecting one of the closing scenes to be a shot of that couple from Annapolis that Lizzie wants to adopt the baby in their home. There's a knock at the door. They open it to find Dembe on the doorstep, who silently hands them a new baby and then walks away.

[thuganomics85]

Of course, Tom would somehow miraculously survive a bunch of guys shooting at him with automatic rifles while he's trapped in the back of a van.  Either they are the worst shots ever, or he was just lucky enough to be behind enough people.  Either way, that is some powerful plot armor!

 

Wow, did Lizzie and her adventures at trying to makes waffles suddenly turn this show into the lamest sitcom ever (unlike the time when Ressler kicked that lawn gnome.  Now, that made me wish some sitcoms could only reach the hilarity of that scene.)  And, of course, Lizzie would just use that to bitch to Red about giving her a bodyguard, even though she was the one who almost burn down the entire apartment and would have probably gotten her dumb ass and that boy killed (the Wig though would have survived!)  I guess that was all a flimsy attempt to keep making her doubt her abilities as a mother, which frankly, I'm with her at this point.  I'd trust Dembe to take care of the child better then her.  Either way, I'm sure this shit is going to drag on out.

 

Case of the week was by the numbers, although I loved Red's final confrontation with Lady Ambrosa.  A lot of times, Red always has some kind of respect for his Blacklisters, but I like the times like here, were he is clearly disgusted by him and is like "You are the worst, and this is coming from me, who has done some shit!"

 

FBI gang was mainly regulated to exposition, Ressler randomly being anti-adoption (the hell?), and Samar being all defensive for Lizzie's sake.  At least their paychecks cleared! 

[desertflower]

I can sort of accept Tom surviving the shooting, I had to rewind and watch again because I missed some details, and it looked like he was in the passenger seat, not the back. So maybe he had a bit more protection than the other poor saps.

Lizzie's waffle scene was the worst. Bring a traumatized autistic kid home and IMMEDIATELY set off the fire alarm. Good job. My husband said, "Has she never seen Rain Man?? She should know better." (Yes, I know not all people with autism are like Rain Man, but still.)

[Chaos Theory]

I guess I am the only one who liked the Lizzie sets her apartment on fire scene. I am easy that way.

[betsyboo]

I genuinely didn't think it was possible for Lizzie to become even stupider than she already is, but there you have it -- she nearly burned down her apartment while cooking toaster waffles in a frying pan on a gas-powered stove with a roll of paper towels too close to the burner.  I'm just surprised this is the first time this has happened.   Was this supposed to be some comedy element so that the Blacklist could get into the comedy category for Emmy consideration next year ?

 

And then indignantly confronted Red: "I can't even make waffles without a guy bursting in here with a gun!" I'M SORRY. You mean when YOU set the kitchen on fire and YOU set off the smoke detector and YOU scared an already fragile special-needs child even more????!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!     HATE.

Even dumber, for a former FBI agent, she is informed  there's a threat, and she blissfully opens wide the apt front door rather than looking in - say - the peephole!  Or calling up her watcher to see if someone is in the hallway.  Nope, no reason to do that due diligence, let's just open the front door, complete with child standing directly in front of the door too.

YESSS!!!

[Risky Librarian]

I guess I am the only one who liked the Lizzie sets her apartment on fire scene. I am easy that way.

 

I think "liked" is a pretty strong word for me, but it was definitely in kind and I didn't have a problem with it. I just don't understand why a woman with no toaster has toaster food. My microwave died a few weeks ago and now the first thing I do before I throw anything in my cart is check to see if I can make it in some way that doesn't require a microwave. I am the very model of the occasional mess of a single woman, but I can read a label. 

[Heatsja]

Count me as another thrown off by Lizzie having toaster waffles in the first place--with no toaster. How did she eat the first half of the box? I know it's not important to the plot, but it really bothered me. I couldn't get past it because it made no sense.

AND--the timeline has me confused. How pregnant is she? She further long than last episode, right? It looked like a few months have past. She's got to be at least 5 months, and probably more like 6. Last episode, she looked about 4 months along. So time has apparently past between episodes. But then they showed Tom right after the jewelry robbery, and I was very confused. Has he done multiple jobs with Gina? Over the corse of a month or two? Or only the one?

Edited February 16, 2016 by Heatsja

[gazebo]

Why the heck did they let Lizzie take the autistic boy home with her? Lizzie has no training taking care of a special needs kid like that. Not to mention the fact that Lizzie is pregnant and should be resting at home without someone to disturb her. Lizzie wasn't even smart enough to go shopping for food before bringing this kid home. Lately this show has me rolling my eyes hard because it just gets so stupid.

And yet I really enjoy the bright spots on this show such as Red's scene with the DMV guy and the two cute pomeranian dogs. Spader is like, the only thing that keeps me watching this show. I think there is more to the story than he told Liz about her mother. I definitely think Red had an affair with Lizzie's mother and Liz came out of the affair. I think Katarina Rostova faked her death to protect Lizzie.

This episode's case and blacklister made me a little sick to my stomach. Lady Ambrosia's justification for killing children was horrifying. Her death was also horrifying. I think Red shooting her dead would've been more merciful than having her son throw her down a well.

Tom Keen is unkillable! I think Gina Z is gonna be in deep shit once Tom recovers from his wounds and he goes to kill her and gets his payment from her.

[Dowel Jones]

Someone needs to check on the aquifer from which that well draws its water.

[RCharter]

I would think if you can put Eggos in a toaster oven, maybe you can put them in the regular oven too?  Or maybe she hasn't unpacked her toaster yet.

 

I just get annoyed with Lizzie.  I know people will do anything to adopt a child, especially a healthy white baby (these are just statistics, not my personal feelings) but having some woman with Lizzie's past coming around and constantly putting your child in danger?  I don't know....if I were that couple I might have just exited stage left.

 

And absolutely annoyed with her over not really talking to Tom about it, or taking his feelings into consideration.  Wasn't he some sort of orphan without a real family?  For someone like him it might be hugely important to keep the child in his life.

 

And agreed that Tom was a fool this episode....it was as obvious as the old red shirt trick.  I mean, even if you had a perfectly reasonable ex, you probably wouldn't want to keep talking about/talking to you new wife in front of them.  Now you have an ex that is a little on the crazy side, and keeps asking you to go away with you, and telling you its your "last chance" but you don't think anything is going to happen?  

Edited February 17, 2016 by RCharter