Pretty Little Liars in the Media

[methodwriter85]

I don't feel remotely sorry for Marlene King. She went ahead and willingly lied and mislead the fans about the story, and she did a half-assed storyline about trans issues that if she had done any actual research, she would have realized that Charles very likely would have never been able to transition in Radley or at least until after the age of 18.

 

Not that I think she gives a crap about the community she offended, but there was this great little piece on Huffington Post that I tweeted to her:

 

Pretty Liars Transphobic Writing Is Hackneyed, Harmful

 

CeCe basically hit on every single negative stereotype about trans people, especially and including the idea that they're out to trap straight men into having relationships with them. It's just ridiculous. We're in 2015 and we're still basically on Finkle is Einhorn.

Edited August 15, 2015 by methodwriter85

[raytch]

So, Reddit users started a petition!

 

Refilm the Pretty Little Liars -A Reveal/Release the Original Episode

[raytch]

Ask and ye shall receive! But might be disappointed, I'm not sure: http://jacobclifton.tumblr.com/post/126527908915/what-do-you-think-of-the-pll-finale

Thanks for this!!!

 

I wish someone would address the jarring plot holes and the fact they changed six seasons of back story to make the story fit with the A reveal.

[Kromm]

So, Reddit users started a petition!

 

Refilm the Pretty Little Liars -A Reveal/Release the Original Episode

The Internet really DOES live in a fantasy land, don't they?

 

I think the actual grown ups (us I hope!) all know that Hollywood doesn't re-film things whenever fans throw a tantrum. Even if the result truly DID (somewhat objectively) suck and have problems, vs. the formless fan rage that sometimes forms around ANY reveal where someone's always going to hate it.

 

You can't wind back history on TV show reveals. I think the only show to really get away with it was "Dallas", and that wasn't done in a way where they admitted any real fault for erasing a year of the show (also the Internet wasn't around to pressure/crucify them--when they did Bobby stepping out of the shower they literally did it only for their own reasons, not any fan's reasons). 

 

Honestly, griping about it is fine. It's what the Internet DOES.  But if anyone thinks that petition is going to do squat?  I hope maybe there's a wink and a smile somewhere in those responses to that petition that shows some self-awareness that it's just another tool to vent rather than an actual something that's going to change anything.

[raytch]

Honestly, griping about it is fine. It's what the Internet DOES.  But if anyone thinks that petition is going to do squat?  I hope maybe there's a wink and a smile somewhere in those responses to that petition that shows some self-awareness that it's just another tool to vent rather than an actual something that's going to change anything.

 

I think they just wanna make a point that this reveal isn't flying with them

[cuddlingcrowley]

I hadn't head about that petition. Man, if there's a finale that would have been reshot is the one from HIMYM, given, you know, they already had the footage for it and they didn't! And I know that even without being part of the fandom, that's how big the whole thing got.

 

That said, I agree with who said the petition serves more as a way for the fans to express their level of disapointment and I'd rather people do it that way than by throwing personal attacks. And I also would rather people keep speaking up because it's only thing the fans can do as a way to influence the writers to DO BETTER NEXT TIME. 

Edited August 15, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[raytch]

Rounds up on reactions to the reveal. Some are hilarious! http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,20944509,00.html

[Spencer Hastings]

I hadn't head about that petition. Man, if there's a finale that would have been reshot is the one from HIMYM, given, you know, they already had the footage for it and they didn't! And I know that even without being part of the fandom, that's how big the whole thing got.

I never thought a finale would piss me off more than the trainwreck that was HIMYM.  This was way worse. I would 

kill Tracey a thousand times over

and rewatch the series five times if it meant that we would get better than the Charles reveal from this show.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Spencer Hastings

[fitzcarraldo]

Marlene only takes criticism from Ezrians and Spoby fans. Someone should make all those signatures say Ezria 4ever or dubstepchickpeas or Tobyssixpack for her to listen to any feedback.

[jjjmoss]

According to "teens," Pretty Little Liars is the best (non-genre) drama on TV, and Aria, Ezra, Caleb, and Hanna's actors are the best drama/summer TV performers. Oh, and A is the best villain.

 

The 2nd-most awards went to Vampire Diaries with 3, so I guess that's the 2nd-best show on TV...

 

http://www.justjared.com/2015/08/16/teen-choice-awards-2015-complete-winners-list/

 

This is the show's, Aria's, and Ezra's 6th consecutive wins; Caleb and Hanna's 2nd consecutive.

The show's teen fanbase sure is good at powervoting/stuffing the ballot box. Reminds me of Twilight's MTV Movie Awards domination.

Edited August 17, 2015 by jjjmoss

[lion10]

According to "teens," Pretty Little Liars is the best (non-genre) drama on TV, and Aria, Ezra, Caleb, and Hanna's actors are the best drama/summer TV performers. Oh, and A is the best villain.

The 2nd-most awards went to Vampire Diaries with 3, so I guess that's the 2nd-best show on TV...

http://www.justjared.com/2015/08/16/teen-choice-awards-2015-complete-winners-list/

This is the show's, Aria's, and Ezra's 6th consecutive wins; Caleb and Hanna's 2nd consecutive.

The show's teen fanbase sure is good at powervoting/stuffing the ballot box. Reminds me of Twilight's MTV Movie Awards domination.

Goddamn teens.

[Spencer Hastings]

Too bad voting closed before the CeCe reveal. But I bet Marlene still uses it to justify the mess she made.

[raytch]

Goddamn teens.

Amen

[Lady Calypso]

I laugh at the Teen Choice Awards, because not that long ago, I was sadly a teen so I sadly watched those awards. But it was about four years ago when I read the disclaimer at the end and it basically stated that no matter what you voted for, the award council (or whatever they call the people in charge of the vote counting and that stuff) can basically veto any winners as they see fit. So basically....if you don't fit into the theme of the TCAs of that year, you don't win because it doesn't really matter if you vote or not. They'll just choose their own winners anyway! 

 

And that is when I stopped giving a shit about the TCAs, because it's rigged as hell and I wish I realized it sooner.

[Bort]

The results of which make sense in this regard. Because Aria and Ezra always win + Ashley Benson was just in Pixels, so naturally the TCAs want to piggyback off of any residual fame they can get from that.

[jjjmoss]

Eh, Pixels was a flop and she won last year too.

 

I think the veto thing essentially means that a number of the awards will go to the runner-up if the winner doesn't feel like showing up. Which isn't, you know, great, but makes sense from a not-wanting-to-look-like-meaningless-flops standpoint.

(Well plus at least some categories they note the winner before voting's officially closed, I suppose to make sure an appearance is made.)

Edited August 17, 2015 by jjjmoss

[Bort]

Eh, Pixels was a flop and she won last year too.

Was it? I thought Pixels had done well, not that I'd paid that much attention.

[Sakura12]

Ashley Benson had no speaking lines in PIxels, she stood around in a revealing outfit with a sword. 

[CloudySky]

Eh, Pixels was a flop and she won last year too.

 

 

I think she benefited from a jump in popularity post Spring Breakers. Selena Gomez/Vanessa Hudgens fans who might not have known her before that...

 

Did she really win though? I recall some shade thrown on twitter from Ashley Benson/Shay Mitchell about 'same thing every year' because they didn't get nominated.

 

Shay standing behind the finale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH9_cPchgnE

 

 

 

[Bort]

Did she really win though? I recall some shade thrown on twitter from Ashley Benson/Shay Mitchell about 'same thing every year' because they didn't get nominated.

Lucy and Shay got nominated for the regular TV drama actress category (Lucy won), while Ashley and Troian were nominated for Choice TV Summer Star, whatever that means (Ashley won).

[Artsda]

"TV Drama"  category (that Lucy and Ian won) is from all year and includes network broadcast season shows like Grey's Anatomy, Empire, Scandal. The "TV Summer" (that Tyler and Ashley won) are just for summer series shows that start after the broadcast season period in May is over, so June-Aug time period. 

Edited August 18, 2015 by Artsda

[cuddlingcrowley]

I laugh at the Teen Choice Awards, because not that long ago, I was sadly a teen so I sadly watched those awards.

 

 

Same. I always thought TCA was terrible (not as terrible as the MTV awards though, which are unwatchable), but I stopped giving a shit after that depressing year I didn't recongnize even one of those overly made up children. I knew it was time to stop.

 

Too bad voting closed before the CeCe reveal. But I bet Marlene still uses it to justify the mess she made.

 

 

Ha! Even her can't be that delusional. It must have been awkward as hell for the actress to receive the award.

Edited August 18, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[mercfan3]

To be fair, "A" was the Villain that people could vote for. It's totally possible A won, and now A we know is CeCe. 

[itainttippithebird]

The Bros Watch PLL roundtable with Jacob C and Heather H is up! It's really, really satisfying and they address almost everything we've discussed here! Warning: if you have a knee jerk angry reaction to the claim "Mr D is the real villian," then you may just wanna pass. Or practice some deep breathing.

 

(Not to say I agree with them on all points, esp the slack given in on the CeCe plot line, but very enjoyable discussion nonetheless.)

[Perfect Xero]

The Bros Watch PLL roundtable with Jacob C and Heather H is up! It's really, really satisfying and they address almost everything we've discussed here! Warning: if you have a knee jerk angry reaction to the claim "Mr D is the real villian," then you may just wanna pass. Or practice some deep breathing.

 

Do you have a link for that?

[itainttippithebird]

Oops, yes, sorry! I was in a hurry posting that this am on my way to yoga and forgot: http://broswatchplltoo.com/pll/roundtable2015

[Perfect Xero]

Thanks!

[cuddlingcrowley]

So who are Jacob and Heather exactly? At first I thought they were part of the crew but google tells me its likely they're just recapers. Is this right? I'm ten minutes in the podcast and I had to google Heather because she's killing me and I'd like to be able to breathe a sigh of relief she's not part of the crew.

 

ETA: Never mind. They're obviously recapers. Praise the Lord.

Edited August 18, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[fitzcarraldo]

Heather recapped for afterellen and then autostraddle. Every episode is mostly about Emily and her love life. She thought Caleb was the worst person ever but oddly really loves Toby. She's incredibly irritating a lot of the time and misses what actually goes on. Like thinking Spencer chipped the girls in her bloody doll house room. She insisted in several of her recaps that went down. Her queen Mona bit was also willfully misreading events. She was not the only recapped to do that, either. Jacob wrote for television without pity. I never read him, though.

[Cranberry]

Jacob is a former TWoP recapper (and writes many things elsewhere); Heather recaps this show (and writes other articles) for Autostraddle (and formerly for AfterEllen).

[cuddlingcrowley]

I'm a lot more familiar with Jacob's recaps because of TWOP(I didn't put the name to the recap) than Heather's...and it'll remain that way. She annoyed the heck out of me. I'd rather just listen to the Bros (?). I'm not familiar with their podcasts besides the one they made with Troian but they seem delightfully insightful.  "I'm totally a Spencer." LOL.

Edited August 18, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[itainttippithebird]

 

Like thinking Spencer chipped the girls in her bloody doll house room.

 

I think you misinterpret her tone - I believe she was sort of joking about that being a foregone conclusion given how heavily implied it was. Also, her recaps tend to be more analysis than straight recap, and its something I really appreciate.

 

The Bros are great - but FYI, they tend to agree with Heather and Jacob in terms of a feminist reading of the show, so if that's not your thing, you may find yourselves annoyed with them after not too long.

Edited August 19, 2015 by itainttippithebird

[mercfan3]

I especially like Heather's recaps when she goes into how things are filmed (which is something the bros do a bit too..but I'll be honest, I don't listen to them too much because that's a lot of listening time..) 

[cuddlingcrowley]

The Bros are great - but FYI, they tend to agree with Heather and Jacob in terms of a feminist reading of the show, so if that's not your thing, you may find yourselves annoyed with them after not too long.

 

 

I don't mind a feminist reading of PLL at all. Quite the opposite, in fact, but that's not the end all of a show for me. What irritated me about Heather on this podcast is that she seemed she couldn't care less about the mystery and kinda too worried about appearing indiferent and "cool" in relation to most fans. She might have said two things at most in a 90 minute podcast that seemed remotely interesting to me. So yeah, my squick is probably just a matter of personal taste. 

 

If their podcasts were shorter I'd probably make them part of my routine, after watching an episode. As it is, I'll probably catch only the ones with a cast or crew member.

Edited August 19, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[fitzcarraldo]

I like feminist reading too but draw the line at Ken is responsible for everything. That's not what happened on pll.

[Spencer Hastings]

Kenny D is such a small entity on this show that I don't get how everything is his fault. Yeah, he committed one kid and gas lighted the other but his wife is the one who messed around with Mr. Hastings behind his back, buried Ali alive, and kept secrets about CeCe. She's the reason all of this went down. To say it's because of her husband is reaching.

[fitzcarraldo]

Jessica also ran around with Bethany's dad. It is likely Cece told Jessica that Bethany killed Marion. Knowing how Cece felt about Bethany she is buying her a horse and taking her to the circus?! That had to have hurt Cece. Damn. Then there is Jason dating TWO of his siblings because of her affairs. Making Cece fake her death. Framing Spencer. Paying off cops.

[mercfan3]

Let's just say Mr. and Mrs. D are horrible individuals..bordering on psychopaths and it's amazing Jason, Ali, and CeCe aren't more screwed up. :P 

[CloudySky]

I think the difference is Mrs. D (and Mona, Cece,...) are so over-the-top wicked that it becomes 'just for tv' and you kinda have to love them. Because there is no way there's someone in the real world who would do all those things and behave that way. Whereas an asshole like Mr. D (and all the other gross guys) is someone every woman will encounter in her lifetime at least once. It's easier to forgive the women for their transgressions because the percentile of people who get buried alive by their mother or turned into living dolls is negligible so you view those crimes through a tv-lens. Misogyny is everywhere.

 

I started listening to the Bros podcast over the summer and am stuck somewhere in S 3b because I haven't had time to listen lately. And I got a little bored because they got repetitive with their Aria=Hanna, Spencer=Emily theory. I'll probably start listening again during this hiatus but it kinda sucks that they gloss over Hanna and Emily a lot of the time (they're my favs) but can spend  30 minutes discussing Aria's outfit.

 

I did listen to these last 2 and agree with most of what they had to say (except the Shower Harvey love!). I especially agree that the episode needed room to breathe.

[lion10]

I think the difference is Mrs. D (and Mona, Cece,...) are so over-the-top wicked that it becomes 'just for tv' and you kinda have to love them. Because there is no way there's someone in the real world who would do all those things and behave that way. Whereas an asshole like Mr. D (and all the other gross guys) is someone every woman will encounter in her lifetime at least once. It's easier to forgive the women for their transgressions because the percentile of people who get buried alive by their mother or turned into living dolls is negligible so you view those crimes through a tv-lens. Misogyny is everywhere.

I started listening to the Bros podcast over the summer and am stuck somewhere in S 3b because I haven't had time to listen lately. And I got a little bored because they got repetitive with their Aria=Hanna, Spencer=Emily theory. I'll probably start listening again during this hiatus but it kinda sucks that they gloss over Hanna and Emily a lot of the time (they're my favs) but can spend 30 minutes discussing Aria's outfit.

I did listen to these last 2 and agree with most of what they had to say (except the Shower Harvey love!). I especially agree that the episode needed room to breathe.

Imo, that still seems like a very weak reason to overlook the terrible shit the women on the show have done and it comes across as seeing only what you want to see so you can draw the conclusions you want, but to each his own.

What is the Hanna = Aria and Emily = Spencer theory?

[CloudySky]

They had this theory at the beginning that Aria is A and Spencer is the killer. Hanna and Emily aren't real. Hanna is Aria's imagined self and Emily is Spencer's imagined self. There were quite a few moments that support the theory so it was a fun lens through which they viewed the show but over time obviously we know it's not possible.

 

It just got a little frustrating sometimes because even though Hanna and Emily's storylines were discussed it felt to me kinda second tire to Aria and Spencer (they admit this too). They're very pro-Aria and Aria/Ezra scenes got discussed ad nauseum. They're not shippers or anything, it was more in a 'that's so Aria' way but still tiring after hours of podcast material.

[Bort]

They had this theory at the beginning that Aria is A and Spencer is the killer. Hanna and Emily aren't real. Hanna is Aria's imagined self and Emily is Spencer's imagined self. There were quite a few moments that support the theory so it was a fun lens through which they viewed the show but over time obviously we know it's not possible.

Sigh. That was my theory for the longest while, I really wish they had gone that way.

[jjjmoss]

On DiLaurentis dad vs. ladies: It's why people hated Dolores Umbridge so much - she is real, while Voldemort's brand of evil is much less commonplace.

Edited August 20, 2015 by jjjmoss

[DigitalCount]

I don't know if I agree with that, though I agree it's a likely explanation. While the form it takes is perhaps ridiculous, people do get stalked and attacked. People encourage their children to be crappy people either directly or indirectly. And even if it's more common for a guy not to be able to accept his daughter, it doesn't magically make him more villainous than the actual villain. Voldemort is still the Big Bad. A is still the woman who ruined Emily's life re: swimming, her passion. A still framed Ali for murder, which she was in the unique position of being able to overturn independently of anyone else. She still stuck the girls in a dollhouse.

Furthermore, the fact remains that Charlotte was a deranged, amoral killer. Was Ken wrong in why he shipped her off? Yes. Was he wrong for doing it? Heck no, she nearly drowned Ali, and we know it wasn't the only thing she did. I simply can't accept the party line from these recappers that Ken was the real villain. Ken was just a catalyst, an excuse. He was in no way the real villain, and it worries me that these guys are pushing that line of reasoning so hard. Charlotte clearly carries the lion's share of personal responsibility, and she's not reacting rationally to external events anyway. I've enjoyed the Bros podcast and the occasional recap from Jacob, but these people are absolutely seeing what they want to see.

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

Furthermore, the fact remains that Charlotte was a deranged, amoral killer. Was Ken wrong in why he shipped her off? Yes. Was he wrong for doing it? Heck no, she nearly drowned Ali, and we know it wasn't the only thing she did.

 

They could have at least made it clear that Kenneth was indeed transphobic. As it is we only have Cece's word for it, if I recall correctly. Why not have Kenneth confess to it in the finale? I mean, they were paying the actor to appear in the episode anyway. As it is, there is a possibility that he genuinely feared for Alison's life and isn't actually transphobic or misogynistic (still a horrible parent, mind you). I think that if the writers really wanted to make him the main villain of it all, they wouldn't have left any room for uncertainty. Compare and contrast with cousin Nate who was so clearly misogynistic that he might as well have worn a T-shirt proclaiming that fact or Andrew's MRA-esque rant in 6.01 (or was it 6.02?).

 

 

I think the difference is Mrs. D (and Mona, Cece,...) are so over-the-top wicked that it becomes 'just for tv' and you kinda have to love them. Because there is no way there's someone in the real world who would do all those things and behave that way. Whereas an asshole like Mr. D (and all the other gross guys) is someone every woman will encounter in her lifetime at least once.

 

Locking up a child in a mental institution because you can't deal with his desire to wear dresses (assuming Cece didn't lie about that) and gaslighting another child into thinking that his brother is imaginary aren't really things that your average misogynist asshole does, though.  But it's true that this is a good explanation as to why the reaction to Mr D (or Ezra or Zach or the NAT club or any number of other Rosewood men) can be a lot more viscerally negative than the reaction to say Mona. However, these reviewers seem to suggest that Kenneth isn't symbolically the real villain or that subjectively they abhor him the most, instead the idea seems to be that he is objectively the real villain and should be recognized as such by everyone, no ifs, no buts.

[Lii]

The same reviewers shouting at the top of their lungs about that are the ones insisting that we need to understand how PLL is still an empowering work for young females. Please stop.

What we SHOULD be focusing on is how much that finale OBJECTIVELY sucked. Not because of feminism or patriarchy or transphobia. Because it was fucking awful. All this arguing about bullshit is just a distraction from that, not to mention an excuse for Marlene to point to about how it isn't her fault no one UNDERSTANDS her ART.

[lion10]

The same reviewers shouting at the top of their lungs about that are the ones insisting that we need to understand how PLL is still an empowering work for young females. Please stop.

What we SHOULD be focusing on is how much that finale OBJECTIVELY sucked. Not because of feminism or patriarchy or transphobia. Because it was fucking awful. All this arguing about bullshit is just a distraction from that, not to mention an excuse for Marlene to point to about how it isn't her fault no one UNDERSTANDS her ART.

The hologram scene was a total "fuck you" to the fans. I was personally offended by that moment because as weird as the show has been at least it all was the same type of show. The spaceship control room and hologram made it seem like a different type of show. And as others said, A gave herself up instead of being backed into a corner. Ridiculous.

[Mabinogia]

Ken was just a catalyst, an excuse.

 

Well said. Let's face it, as sad as it is, there are many children who are not accepted by their parents, be it sexual identity, sexual orientation, religious believes, etc. Not all of them go on to nearly destroy the lives of 4 innocent teenagers. I think Charles was born with enough insanity to go down this road himself. If his fathers rejection hadn't done it, something else would have.

 

I am disappointed that after the big reveal the show is just jumping in time and on to another story because the aftermath could have been more interesting than the build up to CeeCee, however, based on thing Marlene says on social media I doubt she thinks there is anything more to tell. Poor little Charlie was damaged by his big bad daddy and became the most random baddie on earth. (I still don't get why she went after the girls. Was it just because she talked to Mona and thought it would be fun? Oh, who knows? Who cares? Clearly not the show runners.)

[Lii]

Frankly, I'm more offended at the lack of offended-ness over the horribly damaging portrayal of mental illness on this show than anything else, but that shit is par for the course in visual media, so I generally just suck it up and move on. For the record, though, since we're all being offended by things here, that was some bullshit. "Crazy" and "Bitch" are not psychological diagnoses and WHY IS OUTPATIENT MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT NOT A THING IN ROSEWOOD.

[Perfect Xero]

The hologram scene was a total "fuck you" to the fans. I was personally offended by that moment because as weird as the show has been at least it all was the same type of show. The spaceship control room and hologram made it seem like a different type of show. And as others said, A gave herself up instead of being backed into a corner. Ridiculous.

 

Don't get me wrong, I thought that the Reverse Flash future room was lame and completely unnecessary, but, end of the day, it's mostly just a stylistic choice, that scene could have just as easily played out with a regular TV monitor and a laptop or two.

 

I consider Mrs. Grunwald and her psychic visions being the reason that Alison got pulled out of her grave That Night to be a much bigger strike against the show and the story than anything that happened in Game On, Charles.