S02.E05: Episode 5

[formerlyfreedom]

In the hours after Eric is forced to openly discuss his sexuality, Taylor must defend his actions on the night of his alleged assault to the police; Anne struggles with the discovery that her son is gay; a critical decision by the detectives makes some involved feel as though the worst may be over; and at Marshall high school, Chris deals with the aftermath of a seemingly innocuous incident that begins to take on racial overtones.

 

 

[Woebegone]

Interesting discrepancies between Taylor and Eric's stories. The show doesn't seem to be taking a side, treating both of them as if they were victims. I feel equally bad for both of them.

 

I have to say though that at this point at least, Taylor's story rings the least true, because Eric doesn't sound like the kind of guy who would premeditate a rape like the one Taylor is describing. He's rash, defensive, reactive, and wound very tight, but not really sly or a horndog. The scenarios that I had imagined that were plausible were Eric angrily reacting to something Taylor did, or being really wasted and not realising what he was doing, but he says he wasn't that drunk (and agian, he drove Evy and Taylor home, so...). I'm wondering if something else happened that evening after Eric left him, that he was assaulted by someone else, and that he's misremembering it as also being Eric.

 

I wonder if we'll ever find out the truth, since it seems like the criminal case is over and that the next few episodes will be about a civil suit that Anne is going to bring against the school for negligence (jeebus, she can't leave it alone now can she?).

 

Also, is this the first episode that didn't end with a shocking cliffhanger?

[DB in CMH]

The dance told the story of the rape... totally didn't pick up on that until I read it on the Facebook thread.

[shouldbedancing]

Does everyone's station mute out the s-word or is it just mine?

[tennisgurl]

I still have no idea what actually happened at that party, and now I am not sure I ever will. 

 

I will need to watch that dance scene again.

 

I am waiting for the racial tension plot at the poor school to intersect with the main plot. 

[Fisher King]

Does everyone's station mute out the s-word or is it just mine?

 

It mutes and blacks out for an annoying second.

[Tarataru]

Interesting discrepancies between Taylor and Eric's stories. The show doesn't seem to be taking a side, treating both of them as if they were victims. I feel equally bad for both of them.

 

I have to say though that at this point at least, Taylor's story rings the least true, because Eric doesn't sound like the kind of guy who would premeditate a rape like the one Taylor is describing. He's rash, defensive, reactive, and wound very tight, but not really sly or a horndog. The scenarios that I had imagined that were plausible were Eric angrily reacting to something Taylor did, or being really wasted and not realising what he was doing, but he says he wasn't that drunk (and agian, he drove Evy and Taylor home, so...). I'm wondering if something else happened that evening after Eric left him, that he was assaulted by someone else, and that he's misremembering it as also being Eric.

 

I wonder if we'll ever find out the truth, since it seems like the criminal case is over and that the next few episodes will be about a civil suit that Anne is going to bring against the school for negligence (jeebus, she can't leave it alone now can she?).

 

Also, is this the first episode that didn't end with a shocking cliffhanger

I am with you on believing Eric a little more than Taylor. I do believe both are lying/hiding some parts, but this is why I trust Eric's story a little more. First, he said today that he contacted Eric after the party to get Eric to admit what he did. If that was the case, why was he staring at Eric in the gym the first episode like he was. That is not a look you give someone that you thought raped you. Second, why show us the scene between Eric and older man in the car the second episode? Someone would purposely rape someone and then only want to kiss? That doesnt add up to me. I think that scene was more than just revealing Eric's sexual orientation. Third, how did that random boy at the school even know that Taylor was homosexual? They have a history? Taylor been involved more than he is stating? He just part of some type of dating app? Fourth, someone that would lead their "girlfriend" along like that cant be trusted very much. Got to feel for Evy there. I just dont understand how he would do that to her when its so obvious how much she cared for him. 

 

I will add that I do think Taylor was abused at the party in some way, but by the other basketball players. Also, his "fantasies" may be from being abused as a child by that man last episode. 

[represent]

I felt real bad for Eric. I mean when your brother doesn't even give you at least a pat on the shoulder. Usually, a good sibling bond can get one through anything. It's a bond that would even have you go up against parents in defense of said sibling. He doesn't even have that.

 

His father can't even look at him, poor thing.  

 

At least Taylor's mother insists on engaging and keeping lines of communication open.

 

Finally, I give up, I don't know what the hell happened. I'll just keep watching.

 

Is it me or did they just introduce some knew boy into the picture for Taylor with that school bathroom scene?

 

Has anyone seen him before?

Edited February 4, 2016 by represent

[NorthstarATL]

The dance told the story of the rape... totally didn't pick up on that until I read it on the Facebook thread.

I caught it immediately. It was as subtle as the spoken word last week. I'm looking forward to seeing if they do it with hand puppets next week. (Just kidding!)

I don't buy either Taylor's or Eric's stories completely. Taylor looked completely smitten with Eric in the first ep until he got the pictures on his phone, but, then, Eric wasn't the only one playing ball. Did we really see who Taylor was looking at? And I can't recall the detail that Eric gave that made me side-eye him, but there was definitely something. I understand Lili Taylor's character wanting to "do something", but it seems that the more she does, the more he suffers. Sad.

[xyzzy]

I still have no idea what actually happened at that party, and now I am not sure I ever will. 

 

If this season is anything like the first season, there won't be a nice, neat bow wrapped around the case in the final episodes. I don't actually know if I like that or not. I  could accept it in season one because there was a sense of finality to many of the character arcs, but something about this season makes me concerned that they won't deliver that for these characters. I can't quite put my finger on it, though.

[FanOfTheFans]

So is this show turning into the familiar story of the cover up being worse than the crime. They sure are making Leslie appear sinister and now we have this father who settled his daughter's case out of court.

I don't know what to make of the actual event. It seemed like Taylor was kind of smirking at the end while he was lying on his bed. Maybe I am reading too much into it but the camera work makes me feel like the real story is in the facial expressions rather than dialogue due to all the close ups. Lol. It's making me paranoid as now I don't trust what people are saying half the time.

Still enjoying the acting. Thought the coach's wife and daughter had an interesting scene tonight. As a mother, I too would have been freaked out by the daughter's reaction. It seemed very cold. A lot of little side stories going on.

[numbnut]

Finally, I give up, I don't know what the hell happened. I'll just keep watching.

 

I'm not buying either story at this point. Eric is mortified at being outed and kicked off the team (so mortified that he's suicidal) but also gets a thrill from hooking up at a team party? That makes no sense. Is the character schizo or just poorly written? Meanwhile, Taylor keeps dancing around the truth. He mentions Eric but says nothing about the other team captain (whose name escapes me). And did I miss the results of the DNA evidence? Whose was it?

 

Is it me or did they just introduce some knew boy into the picture for Taylor with that school bathroom scene?

 

Has anyone seen him before?

 

That was the kid eyeballing Taylor in class last week.

 

I caught it immediately. It was as subtle as the spoken word last week. I'm looking forward to seeing if they do it with hand puppets next week. (Just kidding!)

 

LOL. I skipped over the dance number. Talk about overkill. Totally didn't need to see a full performance. I think mimes will be next.

 

So who is the pervy teacher that got off the hook? Was it the coach?

Edited February 4, 2016 by numbnut

[izabella]

I really liked the scene with Hope Davis and Coach.  She sees there's something rotten about that school, but Coach is too invested to consider leaving.  He doesn't even see how he could get turned into a scapegoat.  It's all about the choices you make, Coach. 

[Bobbin]

I thought the boys having to detail their sex lives, desires and fantasies in front of police and parents was painful in the extreme. It was also a violation of their Fifth Amendment rights.

Whatever happened, this relentless pursuit of the "truth" is based on the false assumption that consent is always clearly expressed and easily withdrawn, that both parties' desires at any moment are the same. The very biological nature of sex is for passion to overpower reason. Trying to diagram it on a police chalkboard is silly. So is judging adolescent behavior by adult standards.

Anne should probably read Thomas Sowell's "Quest for Cosmic Justice" before going any further.

[nutty1]

I haven't watched yet. Can someone explain what the dance portrayed and was supposed to be telling us? Thanks!

[HunterHunted]

I am with you on believing Eric a little more than Taylor. I do believe both are lying/hiding some parts, but this is why I trust Eric's story a little more. First, Taylor said today that he contacted Eric after the party to get Eric to admit what he did. If that was the case, why was Taylor staring at Eric in the gym the first episode like he was. That is not a look you give someone that you thought raped you. Second, why show us the scene between Eric and older man in the car the second episode? Someone would purposely rape someone and then only want to kiss? That doesnt add up to me. I think that scene was more than just revealing Eric's sexual orientation. Third, how did that random boy at the school even know that Taylor was homosexual? They have a history? Taylor been involved more than he is stating? He just part of some type of dating app? Fourth, someone that would lead their "girlfriend" along like that cant be trusted very much. Got to feel for Evy there. I just dont understand how he would do that to her when its so obvious how much she cared for him.

I will add that I do think Taylor was abused at the party in some way, but by the other basketball players. Also, his "fantasies" may be from being abused as a child by that man last episode.

1. I work in a social services field, but I'm not a social worker. I've run across more than one woman who married her rapist. Rape is a complicated thing and there are often a lot of dynamics at play. Society puts out some really fucked up messages about attraction and dating and that's just for straight people. I just read a study about how if you showed young women a rom com, the women were more likely to view a man's behavior of persistent calling, following, and otherwise stalking her as sweet and a normal part of dating. However if a woman saw a thriller, she identified that behavior as stalking and abusive. Taylor is vulnerable, not popular, and marginalized. Perhaps he was still processing the assault. He might have blamed himself. He might have thought that his texts to Eric encouraged Eric to be too rough. This is a mess, but that's often how acquaintance rape is.

2. I think the scene between Eric and the older guy might help bolster the idea that Eric likes control and to dominate when he is sexual. The older guy went to escalate their sexual interaction and Eric was firm that he didn't like that.

3. Those pictures are all over the internet and kids talk. The new boy could have friends at Leyland. So many of these horrific stories of high school bullying and/or rape talk about how the bullied kid changes school and it follows them to the new school through social media. Ultimately, the bullied kid often ends up being home schooled. There's also decent research about how vulnerable individuals give off subtle signals that predators are really good at picking up on.

4. Yes, because it's still so easy to be an out gay person. Taylor is still only 17. He has confusing ideas about sexuality and attraction. Eric was so comfortable with his sexuality that he was lying to his family and friends. He was so comfortable with his sexuality that he attempted suicide not because he raped Taylor, but because the DNA would show that Eric had sex with Taylor and is therefore gay. Plus everybody seems to be ignoring Taylor could be bisexual and is legitimately attracted to Evy. It's shitty that Taylor was flirting with Eric while dating Evy, but teens and people in their early 20s are clueless obnoxious assholes. Their brains are still developing and they make terrible decisions.

I do agree that it seems like Eric might have been abused. It's a little unusual that someone so young would have his particular fetishes with nothing prompting them. Though I will say that the glut of porn has caused young people to have some really messed up ideas about sex and sexuality.

In the previous paragraph, I meant Taylor might have been abused. But frankly, porn could have messed with both Eric and Taylor's heads.

Edited February 4, 2016 by HunterHunted

[Bobbin]

The modern dance seemed to be a sensuous embrace among males. Note the Black principle dancer, by the way. Whether it was a reenactment of the alleged rape is impossible to say. What is interesting is that the adult audience, supposedly right-wing and anti-gay, loved it.

Taylor's girlfriend's description of their love-making supports Eric's version of events. He appears to be, what? Aggressive-submissive? The other captain's role is still to be revealed. If he raped Taylor, why are Erc and Taylor protecting him? A puzzlement.

[Neurochick]

1. I work in a social services field, but I'm not a social worker. I've run across more than one woman who married her rapist. Rape is a complicated thing and there are often a lot of dynamics at play. Society puts out some really fucked up messages about attraction and dating and that's just for straight people. I just read a study about how if you showed young women a rom com, the women were more likely to view a man's behavior of persistent calling, following, and otherwise stalking her as sweet and a normal part of dating. However if a woman saw a thriller, she identified that behavior as stalking and abusive. Taylor is vulnerable, not popular, and marginalized. Perhaps he was still processing the assault. He might have blamed himself. He might have thought that his texts to Eric encouraged Eric to be too rough. This is a mess, but that's often how acquaintance rape is.

 

 

Good point.  I think the issue is in attraction.  If you're attracted to someone, the persistent calling, following, etc is seen as okay; however, if you're not attracted to the person, it's seen as stalking.  To me, it's the attraction that's complicated.

 

I do agree that it seems like Eric might have been abused. It's a little unusual that someone so young would have his particular fetishes with nothing prompting them. Though I will say that the glut of porn has caused young people to have some really messed up ideas about sex and sexuality.

 

 

I think today, too many young people are exposed to porn before they get a sense of their own sexuality.  For instance, there's nothing wrong with wanting it rough, but people who do that are usually in committed relationships, they trust each other, so the roughness is part of their play.  In the case of Taylor and Eric, they weren't in a relationship, so the definition what's too rough, and what's okay were blurry.  

[numbnut]

I really liked the scene with Hope Davis and Coach.  She sees there's something rotten about that school, but Coach is too invested to consider leaving.  He doesn't even see how he could get turned into a scapegoat.  It's all about the choices you make, Coach. 

 

Hmm. If coach was the "teacher" that was saved by the lewd behavior settlement, his NDA could explain why he insists on staying at the school and why Leslie treats him like a trained animal.

[Bobcatkitten]

I have no idea what's going on and not in a good way. 

 

Honestly if this is just a he-said/he-said I'm not interested. I noticed Taylor said "but I didn't say yes" and wondered if we were going down the new affirmative sex route where you are supposed to say yes instead of no. 

[izabella]

Taylor said he didn't have a chance to say yes or no.  The drug in his drink incapacitated him. 

 

Otherwise, yes.  At this point, it is entirely he said/he said.

[iMonrey]

Here's what I think happened - somebody else, besides Eric, drugged Taylor, and Eric didn't know it. Eric gave Taylor the rough treatment he asked for in his texts and didn't understand why Taylor seemed freaked after their encounter so he bailed. 

 

It's possible Kevin is the one who drugged Taylor for whatever reason - because otherwise I don't understand all the focus they've been putting on Kevin. He had to do something. And there's still that exchange he had with Eric where one of them said "The little bitch said something."

 

I thought the dance was really stupid and pretentious. This show is mired in self-importance. In a school of only 500+ students, elite or not, where are they going to find that many students who want to do this sort of interpretive ballet performance? And how on earth is some dumb five-minute performance going to bring in millions of dollars? Why would the entire town (seemingly; maybe just parents of all the students in school) get all dressed up to go to some dumb performance that only lasts five minutes? 

 

Some of the stories and conversations are so peripheral to the crime they really irritate me. I know they are striving for all these parables but I just don't give a crap.

[represent]

 

Still enjoying the acting. Thought the coach's wife and daughter had an interesting scene tonight. As a mother, I too would have been freaked out by the daughter's reaction. It seemed very cold. A lot of little side stories going on.

Yep, when I saw it, I thought this is what a teenage mean girl Lifetime movies are made of, girls like this. Sorry, it's not a stretch to me, because it looks like she's numb and it's dangerous. Her mother is right to be very concerned. Yeah, she's gotta have a stronger moral compass than that if she's gonna survive those teen years.

 

She's got the mentality of the type of girl who would get roped into at the very least, covering for her girl "friends," who killed another girl, stuffed her in the trunk and abandoned the car.

[izabella]

She's got the mentality of the type of girl who would get roped into at the very least, covering for her girl "friends," who killed another girl, stuffed her in the trunk and abandoned the car.

 

 

And we know she wouldn't feel guilty about it.  "I didn't kill her!  Why should I feel guilty?!"

[Neurochick]

It's possible Kevin is the one who drugged Taylor for whatever reason - because otherwise I don't understand all the focus they've been putting on Kevin. He had to do something. And there's still that exchange he had with Eric where one of them said "The little bitch said something."

 

 

Eric was the one who said, "that little bitch said something."

 

Either Kevin did something or he saw something; perhaps Eric drugged Taylor and whatever he drugged him with belongs to Kevin.  Maybe Kevin assaulted the girl he was with.

 

BTW, the incident at the other school is interesting to me, because the principal called the Latino kids "thugs" which is what black men get called far too often, even the mayor of NYC was called out for referring to the union members who were striking as "thugs."

Edited February 4, 2016 by Neurochick

[represent]

 

And we know she wouldn't feel guilty about it.  "I didn't kill her!  Why should I feel guilty?!"

And it was really a great scene in that, we've been watching this girl, she seems like a typical teenager.  Although she was shaking her ass right up in the faces of some boys at the beginning of the show but....Yeah, that wasn't just about the cheering routines. So a lesson in feeling sexy vs. just straight up objectifying yourself is/was in order. But...this not understanding or feeling guilt is a much deeper problem IMO.

 

It just shows how important it is to try to get to know your teenager's psyche as best you can and that means trying to talk to with them, yet not at them as much as you can.

 

 I mean I wonder if she would have ever gotten into that kind of conversation had the daughter not come home in time to actually see the aunt on the couch crying to the mother? Because the convo. started when the daughter asked about the aunt.

 

So, like heaven forbid she pulled a Lifetime movie stunt this mother would have been "not my daughter," no way, but now...she sees there some deep problems going on here in the character of her daughter.

Edited February 4, 2016 by represent

[RedheadZombie]

It's interesting that Kevin is the one who invited Taylor.  It makes me wonder if the intent was to haze Taylor.  Even if Kevin deliberately drugged Taylor, I just don't think that Eric was unaware.  I believe Kevin and Eric had a plan to humiliate Taylor.  Even though Eric planned to hookup with Taylor, he also hates him because he hates the fact that he's gay.   It makes no sense to me that Taylor/Eric had a consensual hookup, Taylor pulls his pants back up, and is then later found half-unconscious with his pants down.  I think the intent was to drug and humiliate Taylor, and Eric tweaked the plan with the intent to consensually hookup with Taylor.  Maybe Taylor started feeling the drug's affect and Eric pretended he didn't know what was going on, and continued with the sex.  That would go along with Eric's comment about, "that bitch said something".  It's possible that Kevin thought Taylor was simply drugged and humiliated.

 

 

I have to say though that at this point at least, Taylor's story rings the least true, because Eric doesn't sound like the kind of guy who would premeditate a rape like the one Taylor is describing. He's rash, defensive, reactive, and wound very tight, but not really sly or a horndog. The scenarios that I had imagined that were plausible were Eric angrily reacting to something Taylor did, or being really wasted and not realising what he was doing, but he says he wasn't that drunk (and agian, he drove Evy and Taylor home, so...). I'm wondering if something else happened that evening after Eric left him, that he was assaulted by someone else, and that he's misremembering it as also being Eric.

 

The acting (so far) leads me to believe that Taylor is telling the truth the best he can remember, and Eric is in total CYA territory.  You're right that Eric is, "rash, defensive, reactive, and wound very tight".  In other words, he's angry and by his actions against his brother, a rage monster.   In almost every scene he's angry to the extreme.  We've seem him come pretty close to killing his brother.  IMO, he drove Taylor home to keep him from blabbing, rather than any sympathy or concern.  Dumping someone unconscious out on the street to be assisted in by a petite girl is an asshole move.

 

I am with you on believing Eric a little more than Taylor. I do believe both are lying/hiding some parts, but this is why I trust Eric's story a little more. First, he said today that he contacted Eric after the party to get Eric to admit what he did. If that was the case, why was he staring at Eric in the gym the first episode like he was. That is not a look you give someone that you thought raped you. Second, why show us the scene between Eric and older man in the car the second episode? Someone would purposely rape someone and then only want to kiss? That doesnt add up to me. I think that scene was more than just revealing Eric's sexual orientation. Third, how did that random boy at the school even know that Taylor was homosexual? They have a history? Taylor been involved more than he is stating? He just part of some type of dating app? Fourth, someone that would lead their "girlfriend" along like that cant be trusted very much. Got to feel for Evy there. I just dont understand how he would do that to her when its so obvious how much she cared for him. 

 

I will add that I do think Taylor was abused at the party in some way, but by the other basketball players. Also, his "fantasies" may be from being abused as a child by that man last episode. 

 

But you have to remember that Taylor was drugged, and the inconsistencies could be due to that.  After the party he may have thought they hooked up, then went home.  But then he sees these pictures, and Evy probably complains about how Eric drove them home and just dumped them in front of the house.  It may have taken some time for the whole picture to form.  Taylor spoke to his mom after realizing that something bad had happened to him.  At that point he was still trying to figure it all out.

 

As to Eric's behavior with the older man - it's possible that Eric was traumatized by what he did to Taylor.  If he's just beginning to explore his sexuality, he's still learning by trial and error.  I think there's something else overlooked that may be clearer if Taylor were a girl.  Eric may be from a lower income family, but he's not on scholarship.  Taylor is the poor white trash at that school.  In a more traditional scenario, Eric is only hooking up with Taylor because he's a sure thing.  Taylor may have romanticized the whole thing, which makes it harder to accept when it turned violent.  And as someone else said, many a girl has been raped by her boyfriend, and continued the relationship.

 

 I understand Lili Taylor's character wanting to "do something", but it seems that the more she does, the more he suffers. Sad.

 

I think she still suffers guilt from the time she left Taylor to seek help.  She seems driven by the need to be his advocate and justice-seeker, yet he seems driven to protect her and shield her from stress.  It's kind of tragic.

[designing1]

 

I thought the dance was really stupid and pretentious. This show is mired in self-importance. In a school of only 500+ students, elite or not, where are they going to find that many students who want to do this sort of interpretive ballet performance? And how on earth is some dumb five-minute performance going to bring in millions of dollars? Why would the entire town (seemingly; maybe just parents of all the students in school) get all dressed up to go to some dumb performance that only lasts five minutes?

 

Thank you. Not only where are they going to find the students, but where will they find students to dance at that level? And if six year olds get suspended and accused of sexual harassment for kissing a classmate on the hand (seriously), what high school is going produce a sensual interpretive dance featuring students dressed in flesh-toned undies?

 

For that matter, what school that isn't a performing arts school has a budget for the performing arts anymore?

 

So yeah, between that, the slam poetry complete with finger snaps, and the ridiculous cut-to-black for "the bad words" (clearly some artsy-fartsy director driven thing, otherwise they'd either a) use different words or b) do the usual sound edit), this show should certainly be nominated for an award in the "Most Pretentious" category.

[Primetimer]

Or: 'You Can Dance If You Want To (See How Terrible Your Community Is).'

Read the story

[Neurochick]

Why the fuck (see I used that word) do they cut to black for the bad words if ABC puts a disclaimer out that says, "do to language."  WTF?

[Syd]

I thought those "skips" were my DVR messing up.

 

I was loving the hell out of this show until this episode. Now, I'm kind of dreading it.

[represent]

In terms of the dance, the dancer who was left with his hands wrapped around himself shivering, mirrored Eric to me in this episode. Taylor and Kevin seem to have support, meanwhile Eric looks like the one left all alone. 

 

That boy seemed so very alone to me. Kevin is getting loving hugs from mommy, and no matter how tight his mom may hold her arms at the details of his sexual activity, she's sticking by her son and talking to him and showing loving concern.

 

Eric?

 

That's the connection I made at the end of that dance with the rest of the show.

[iMonrey]

I don't get the black-outs, either. If they have to go to such lengths so we can't even see them mouthing the swear words, why are they written into the dialogue? The writers know what network this show airs on. Is it so everyone will run out and buy the DVDs with the swearing intact? Like that's gonna be such a huge bonus feature. 

[Bobcatkitten]

I agree that I was loving the season until this episode. 

[JoannKB]

In a school of only 500+ students, elite or not, where are they going to find that many students who want to do this sort of interpretive ballet performance? And how on earth is some dumb five-minute performance going to bring in millions of dollars? Why would the entire town (seemingly; maybe just parents of all the students in school) get all dressed up to go to some dumb performance that only lasts five minutes?

Thank you. Not only where are they going to find the students, but where will they find students to dance at that level? And if six year olds get suspended and accused of sexual harassment for kissing a classmate on the hand (seriously), what high school is going produce a sensual interpretive dance featuring students dressed in flesh-toned undies?

For that matter, what school that isn't a performing arts school has a budget for the performing arts anymore?

 

This is an expensive private school. They have a budget for performing arts, and they can pick and choose their students in a way that could get them a disproportionate number of talented dancers, or talented athletes, depending on that their priorities are. My son's school has about 400 kids and I am blown away by the quality of the dance shows and theatre productions they have, and the adult subjects they tackle. And while it seems unlikely that a dance performance alone could bring in a million dollars of fundraising, it would have been a small part of a larger gala. If it's the big once-a-year fundraising gala, combined with silent auction and whatnot, it could bring in a lot of dough.

[designing1]

Ah, I forgot the "expensive private school" aspect. OK, their ability to stage the Dance of Exposition makes sense now.

 

I don't get the black-outs, either. If they have to go to such lengths so we can't even see them mouthing the swear words, why are they written into the dialogue? The writers know what network this show airs on. Is it so everyone will run out and buy the DVDs with the swearing intact? Like that's gonna be such a huge bonus feature.

 

 

I honestly think it's a too-precious-for-words conceit on the part of the show's creators. We see people mouthing swear words on TV all the time. The blackouts have to be a tortured artistic choice, not to sell DVDs (like you, I can't imagine it being a selling point) but more to seem artsy and edgy, much like the extreme closeups, the focus on the listener rather than the speaker, and the subtle as an anvil use of slam poetry and interpretive dance that parallels the story.

Edited February 4, 2016 by designing1

[GaiusB]

I dont trust a word from Taylor.

Eric´s version is partly true, but not complete. He is covering for Kevin also.

Kevin have to be involved somehow, yet both Taylor and Eric dont say anything to anyone about his possible participation.

Coach´s daughter will be involved too.

 

So my conclusion is that its not about the nature of sexual contact between Taylor and Eric (which was consensual as Eric said), but about the group humiliation that hapenned after. That make involvement of Kevin, coach´s daughter  and even other basketball team players possible. Its also why Taylor was not bothered until he saw the pictures. Rape accusations are his revenge against Eric, either because of Eric´s rejection or more likely because he blame Eric for set up for his humiliation.

Edited February 4, 2016 by GaiusB

[RedheadZombie]

Why the fuck (see I used that word) do they cut to black for the bad words if ABC puts a disclaimer out that says, "do to language."  WTF?

I think the language warning is for things like, "quick to come".

[Tarataru]

I think the language warning is for things like, "quick to come".

The funny thing is, I still have no idea what that means lol. 

 

When Taylor and the random boy (Luke?) in the bathroom, did anyone else notice that the scene seemed to freeze when their faces got decently close and it seemed to skip forward a little bit? Did it not show us what all happened there?

 

Also, I noticed that when Taylor was in his house alone on his bed. He looked over at a picture on a wall of someone committing suicide. I do not think that is a good sign for his character. I am hoping no one commits suicide, but I feel like this story will end kind of tragically.

[izabella]

It's interesting that Kevin is the one who invited Taylor.  It makes me wonder if the intent was to haze Taylor.  Even if Kevin deliberately drugged Taylor, I just don't think that Eric was unaware.  I believe Kevin and Eric had a plan to humiliate Taylor.  Even though Eric planned to hookup with Taylor, he also hates him because he hates the fact that he's gay.   It makes no sense to me that Taylor/Eric had a consensual hookup, Taylor pulls his pants back up, and is then later found half-unconscious with his pants down.  I think the intent was to drug and humiliate Taylor, and Eric tweaked the plan with the intent to consensually hookup with Taylor.  Maybe Taylor started feeling the drug's affect and Eric pretended he didn't know what was going on, and continued with the sex.  That would go along with Eric's comment about, "that bitch said something".  It's possible that Kevin thought Taylor was simply drugged and humiliated.

 

That theory makes a lot of sense.  I can see how Eric could have impulsively taken advantage of the situation thinking, hey, he's already drugged, he wont' remember. 

 

In any case, someone put the drug in Taylor's drink.  The police don't seem to have any leads on who, but there were a bunch of people there taking pictures.  If this were CSI, they'd be checking out everyone's Instagram and Facebook pictures to try and put together a timeline of where people were, like in the kitchen handing out drugged drinks.

[sjohnson]

The police have deliberately trashed the investigation, leaking information to justify their decision. They probably did this because Terry's friend intervened. Of course he denied that he could. Wouldn't want to get caught at it. First rule of crime is, never confess, especially not to friends.

 

Taylor trying to make it didn't happen by getting Eric to apologize may not be the way one thinks he should react, but I can't see it as sinister. Taylor is the one telling the truth. Evie supports the drugging, and Taylor isn'y lying about that. I'm a little surprised that people expect consistent testimony from someone drugged. 

 

I'm curious whether the vomit was tested for drugs, and whether they confirmed the semen was Eric's. At this point, I'm not sure the cops are investigating at all. 

Edited February 10, 2016 by sjohnson

[DrSparkles]

Thank you. Not only where are they going to find the students, but where will they find students to dance at that level? And if six year olds get suspended and accused of sexual harassment for kissing a classmate on the hand (seriously), what high school is going produce a sensual interpretive dance featuring students dressed in flesh-toned undies?

 

For that matter, what school that isn't a performing arts school has a budget for the performing arts anymore?

 

So yeah, between that, the slam poetry complete with finger snaps, and the ridiculous cut-to-black for "the bad words" (clearly some artsy-fartsy director driven thing, otherwise they'd either a) use different words or b) do the usual sound edit), this show should certainly be nominated for an award in the "Most Pretentious" category.

I am so lost. And I echo what the fuckity w that dance?????

[Eolivet]

I honestly think it's a too-precious-for-words conceit on the part of the show's creators. We see people mouthing swear words on TV all the time.

 

Really? On a broadcast network? I think there are still standards and practices, even at 10PM. I'm guessing they cannot even show people mouthing swear words, the creators didn't want to alter their script. And bleeping out swears, like on say -- Hell's Kitchen -- probably takes away from the drama. Basically, I'm not sure they have a choice other than "not write them in." I could be wrong, but that feels like a (for lack of a better phrase) CYA move by the network rather than a RME move by the creators.

 

I really hope Eric isn't telling the truth, or at least that Taylor isn't deliberately obfuscating what happened. I like Taylor -- I'm not here for Primal Fear.

[dantegabriel]

HI there everyone, 

 

This is my first forum ever. I am really new to this, but I absolutely love reading, discussing, and talking about good quality television. I watched American Crime's season 1 in its entirety, and because of how great season one was, it does not surprise me how good this show gets. 

 

I really do not really know a lot of people who watch the show enough to where I can talk and theorize the characters. 

 

The show is great! I love the actors. I love the character development. NOW, to the show. 

 

- Am I the only one that gets an irky feeling about the Leslie. I know she is modeling corruption in the show, but man, it almost seems like half of the time she is in denial, and the other half of the time, she seems concerned for the well being. I think she is putting on a front, and I think Felicity is doing absolutely great with the acting. 

- I love the story of Eric and Taylor. I don't particularly like the whole rape thing, but it provides a lot of truth. I don't mean to offend anybody, but I think people are still somewhat unaware that gay men have to do a lot of sneaking around and talking dirty in order to "get some action." I know that does not apply to every single one, but it is somewhat of a true statement. I could go on and on about that, but for the sake of discussion of the show, I will move on. Does anyone have an irky feeling about Kevin having something to do with the rape. I think he's a very sexually frustrated guy, but I do think that he MIGHT of had something to do with it. I know he hosted the captain's party, but I think he might of took a round on Taylor once Kevin was finished. 

- I feel bad for Evy. I mean, poor girl. She was basically kind of used. I understand her pain, and I understand why Taylor did it, but it is just like. Man. That sucks! 

- Taylor's mom - i feel bad for her. I think she is an ex-druggy?? Does anybody else think that? I still feel kind of weird about the guy that said he was okay with Taylor staying with for that weekend trip. Oh, I think Taylor also lied about having only slept with one other guy. I feel like, he's too experienced. He seems like he knows his way around "grindr" or whatever sex app it was. Again, anybody want to talk about the chocking? and the ruff sex? Sounds like he's somewhat into the whole control and molestation in the past kind of thing. 

- Regina King, no matter how rough on the palate her characters are in American Crime, one can not deny her acting remains on point. I love her. Personally, I think her Emmy was well deserved, but you can't deny Felicity's character last season was very very top notch when it came to acting.

- The basketball coach - I think he's named Dan in the show is particularly kind of off putting. I think his acting is superb as well. He did win an oscar back in the day for Ordinary People when he was directed by Redford. He's a good actor. No denying that. I just don't know why he feels so guilty.

^ Dan's wife... I respect woman. I don't mean to offend anybody, but can someone please explain to me why she was so put off by what Leslie said. I mean, isn't was Leslie said, the truth? "The other boy lied. Our kid didn't."  She said something of that nature, but I don't know. I also am very well aware that yes, Jessup's character did not lie. 

 

Uhm, i think that is pretty good enough to get a forum started. Any thoughts? I just want to talk and read about how good the show is. It is so good!!! I really hope people watch it so they can really see what quality stories and amazing story telling is. Let's talk!

[Tarataru]

The police have deliberately trashed the investigation, leaking information to justify their decision. They probably did this because Terry's friend intervened. Of course he denied that he could. Wouldn't want to get caught at it. First rule of crime is, never confess, especially not to friends.

 

Taylor trying to make it didn't happen by getting Eric to apologize may not be the way one thinks he should react, but I can't see it as sinister. Taylor is the one telling the truth. Evie supports the drugging, and Taylor is lying about that. I'm a little surprised that people expect consistent testimony from someone drugged. 

 

I'm curious whether the vomit was tested for drugs, and whether they confirmed the semen was Eric's. At this point, I'm not sure the cops are investigating at all. 

If I had to guess, I think the other basketball players drugged Taylor. However, Taylor did mention that Eric gave him a drink when talking to the detectives. That is different though from when he talked to Anne in the first episode when he said "they told me to be fun" when talking about the students giving him alcohol. Then we have to question is Kevin involved or not. I would say he was either a significant part of it or knows all about it. He is the one who invited Taylor in the first place which is a red flag. 

 

Like you, I do believe that Taylor got abused at the party obviously. However, I just have a hard time seeing Eric knowingly raping Taylor. Maybe, I am just getting tricked by the "innocent" looks Eric gives when no one is around (this could just be guilt). I know that most of us probably want to be on Taylor's side. However, what he did to Evy is a red flag for me. Even when talking to her in this episode, he told her "i'm not gay." Therefore, he doesnt have a problem lying to people that really care for him like Evy does. Also, I want to know what the purpose of the bathroom scene is. That may be significant in some way to Taylor's character. 

 

Lastly, Taylor stated that Eric "made me feel safe." That is a interesting statement to me because from the audience perspective, Eric has been everything but that. Therefore, why does Taylor have that perspective of Eric especially with the content from those texts messages between the two. Hopefully, we will get more background on their relationship eventually. 

[LotusFlower]

So who is the pervy teacher that got off the hook? Was it the coach?

Has to be. It stood out to me in the first episode how Leslie asked the coach to talk to the kids, and they didn't show it. And this episode's excellent scene with the coach and his wife talking about about integrity. I also remember a scene from a few episodes ago with the two of them talking about their sex lives. Coach definitely plays a bigger part in this story.

[Woebegone]

Something I wonder about is how quickly (or slowly) information is being disseminated. Like, has Kevin and the rest of the team heard about the suicide/confession? The school already knows about the dirty details of the texts and Eric being in the hospital, but no one in the LaCroix household or at the basketball team meeting even mentioned it.

 

I'm a bit of an Eric apologist, but I don't think Taylor is the bad guy here. I agree that he is being fairly honest in his testimony of what happened, but by his own admission he was drugged and therefore not a reliable narrator of the events of that night. I mean, there very could well have been a hazing or something like that, but then we would have to throw out Taylor's entire testimony because his version of events only has him and Eric alone in a room.

 

As for Eric, I get why people think he's this very angry and hateful person, but I'd like to point out that other than the fight with his brother (which, let's be fair, his brother started on purpose), he hasn't lifted a hand to anyone. I mean, Taylor has effectively ruined his life with the rape allegation, but instead of trying to find him and beat the crap out of him, he just.. gives up. There's a lot of bark and bluster with this character, but not much bite.

[LotusFlower]

^ Dan's wife... I respect woman. I don't mean to offend anybody, but can someone please explain to me why she was so put off by what Leslie said. I mean, isn't was Leslie said, the truth? "The other boy lied. Our kid didn't." She said something of that nature, but I don't know.

Well, we don't know that. It's still a he said/he said situation. Leslie is just spinning it as "our kid told the truth" because the DA decided not to prosecute. And Dan's wife seemed put off because Leslie was so clearly circling the wagon and showed she only cared about the school and its reputation, as opposed to finding out the truth. I'll also add that the "other boy lied, our kid didn't" line was so jarring because the "other boy" was a student at the school, too. But now that he left, he's suddenly the "other boy." Not someone they have to care about anymore. And don't forget he was on scholarship, which already made him a less-than. Notice that throwaway line Leslie used at her board meeting when someone asked about addressing the black families at the school after accepting Eric back into the fold, and she said the school only had three black families who pay full tuition, so it wasn't a concern. Full tuition! Follow the money. Always.

Edited February 5, 2016 by LotusFlower

[dantegabriel]

Well, we don't know that. It's still a he said/he said situation. Leslie is just spinning it as "our kid told the truth" because the DA decided not to prosecute. And Dan's wife seemed put off because Leslie was so clearly circling the wagon and showed she only cared about the school and its reputation, as opposed to finding out the truth. I'll also add that the "other boy lied, our kid didn't" line was so jarring because the "other boy" was a student at the school, too. But now that he left, he's suddenly the "other boy." Not someone they have to care about anymore. And don't forget he was on scholarship, which already made him a less-than. Notice that throwaway line Leslie used at her board meeting when someone asked about addressing the black families at the school after accepting Eric back into the fold, and she said the school only had three black families who pay full tuition, so it wasn't a concern. Full tuition! Follow the money. Always.

Thank you for clarifying. Man, it amazes me how cruel Leslie gets. It's so hard to swallow. Shake me head. I love this show for being honest and showing how society very much does this. 

Just a thought - does anybody have a guess how this ends. I definitely think someone is going to commit suicide. I hope, and maybe I am applying to reality a little too much, but I hope no one does, but I think Taylor, Eric, or Kevin is going to kill themself. 

[LotusFlower]

Thank you for clarifying. Man, it amazes me how cruel Leslie gets. It's so hard to swallow. Shake me head. I love this show for being honest and showing how society very much does this. Just a thought - does anybody have a guess how this ends. I definitely think someone is going to commit suicide. I hope, and maybe I am applying to reality a little too much, but I hope no one does, but I think Taylor, Eric, or Kevin is going to kill themself.

They just showed a suicide attempt, so I think that's the extent of that. At least I hope so.