Season 5 (A & B) Discussion

[Rhondinella]

Discuss season 5 (any part) here.

[DrSpaceman]

Found it interesting they did an article in we this week about show finales because of the himym ending. One of the people in the article was Vince Gillian talking about the breaking bad ending. He talked about how they came up with the scene of Walt in the coffee shop buying the guns, went with it as a flash forward, but had no idea at the time they wrote they scene how they were going to get to that point in the story. Also mentioned they considered a number of different endings, including one where everyone dies and another where Walt breaks Jesse out of jail

Edited April 6, 2014 by DrSpaceman

[King of Birds]

I saw that article as well. I recall when I saw the 'flash forward' that they had at least figured out some of the circumstances surrounding the "why Walter would need THAT gun."

No wonder they talk about the hell of the BB writer's room!

[Peace Please]

I miss this show so much! It ended perfectly, IMHO and yet there is a tiny hole in my Heisenberg heart!

[millennium]

I have searched and can't find even an acknowledgment (let alone an explanation why) from the creators of the show that the finale episode (Felina) currently being shown on Netflix has been altered since its original airing.

 

I would swear on a stack of Leaves of Grass that in the original broadcast, when Walt tackles Jesse in the Nazi clubhouse, he tells him "Stay down."  Also, when Todd peers out the window at the trunk-mounted machine gun, he utters, "Gee, Mr. White ..."   But those lines no longer exist in the version of the finale currently airing on Netflix.   Walt says nothing when he gets Jesse on the floor, and Todd's line has been changed to simply,  "Mr. White ..."

[Ronin Jackson]

I don't know millennium... I watched the original broadcast version of the finale at least 3 times and I don't remember either of those things.  Those are far too arbitrary of changes for anyone to have put in the effort.  Some reasons why original broadcast versions change... loosened or tightened censorship (ala digitally adding a bra to the topless woman in the window from the pilot), or changing music if the rights have expired...

[CheekyBrat]

I have a question about the ricin cigarette and the lily of the valley poisoning of Brock.  I don't understand how the whole thing happened - Jesse believes he lost the ricin cigarette, but Saul had it.  At some point, Walt poisons Brock with Lily of The Valley and then replaces the 'lost' ricin cigarette with one full of salt.  

 

How did Saul get the cig from Jesse's pack?

 

How/when did Walt poison Brock?

 

Why replace the cigarette if Jesse believes that Brock supposedly ingested some berries?

 

What made Jesse realize at the very end that Saul had taken/stolen the cig?  

 

There has to be some way these things are connected, but I am not seeing it.  

 

Thank you!

[Ronin Jackson]

How did Saul get the cig from Jesse's pack?

 

 

He had Huell pickpocket it from Jesse...

 

How/when did Walt poison Brock?

 

 

This was never completely explained... I believe TPTB referred to Walt somehow poisoning his juice box but again, it was never shown.  We just have to assume Walt did it some time off screen, after Gus threatens Walt not to go near Jesse and before Huell lifted the cigarette (we do see this scene).

 

Why replace the cigarette if Jesse believes that Brock supposedly ingested some berries?

 

 

Jesse was freaking out about the cigarette.  Walt didn't want him to obsess over it to the point where he eventually realizes the cigarette WAS stolen.  (He initially wanted Jesse to believe it was stolen and Brock was poisoned with it so Jesse would come to him, since he could not go to Jesse).

 

What made Jesse realize at the very end that Saul had taken/stolen the cig?

 

 

Saul had Huell lift Jesse's marijuana the same way he lifted the cigarette before.  Jesse had previously suspected that Huell had indeed lifted the cigarette, and when the same thing happened the whole scenario started to click in his head.

 

To sum it up:  Walt was in a huge bind... an almost no win situation.  Jesse had replaced him as Gus's cook, Gus had threatened Walt not to go near Jesse or his entire family would be killed.  The only thing keeping Walt alive was that Jesse would not approve and keep cooking for Gus if Walt was killed, and Walt knew Gus would kill him the moment Jesse softened on his stance even a little bit (and Jesse and Walt were not on good terms at that point).  So Walt concocted a plan to poison Brock just enough to make him sick but not kill him, and had Saul lift Jesse's ricin cigarette so Jesse would suspect Walt and come to him (who was the only other person who knew about the cig).  Saul did not know about Walt's full plan.  At this point Jesse would want to kill Walt, and Walt knew that.  Walt then would try to convince Jesse that Gus had Brock poisoned in order to manipulate Jesse into killing Walt, and if successful, he could turn the tables on Gus.  

 

Later, after it was clear Brock was not poisoned by the ricin, Walt planted the fake ricin cig so Jesse would put the whole thing out of his mind.  Which he did until Huell lifted the pot, and Jesse figured out the whole thing.

 

It is all pretty convoluted... but I'm okay with it because all of it is true to the characters involved.

[CheekyBrat]

Pretty much what I had put together (except for Huell pick pocketing Jesse).  Thanks for the in depth explanation!

[sunshinelover]

I binge-watched the entire last season in one day.  And then dreamt about it-a lot.  It's one of those few shows that really affected me in a way where I couldn't stop thinking about it for a long time after I watched it.  My main coherent thought was how much I despised Walt, and an intense sadness for everyone else.  His true love ruined so many lives.  And Skyler-I know in a way she deserved what she got, for her part in Walt's criminal activities; but the image of her sitting there lifelessly chain-smoking haunts me.

 

The worst though (besides the children, for obvious reasons) is Marie.  What does she have left now?  Her husband murdered, a ruined relationship with her sister...and all she ever did was try to help.

 

And all because Walt's a selfish asshole.  At least in the end he admitted he did it for himself, but what good does that admission do when all the damage is already caused?

 

I know it's just a TV show but like I said, it affected me so much and I just can't stop thinking about it!

[Valny]

My friend at work just finished up the last five eps  and I told her to text me along the way. I've been rewatching most of the eps with her as she goes along. Man season five was probably the best season of any show I've ever seen and it was just as amazing watching it again. Some of her texts were cracking me up.Here's what she wrote after some of the eps:

OMG shoot out in the desert! The Nazis just came and shot up Hank and Gomez,not sure who is shot,uugh!

OMG they killed Hank!

Just finished episode 14. That phone call to Skylar to clear her.Then the baby in the firetruck.OMG I am dying! Is it 15 or 16 episodes?

Finished two seconds ago, awesome finale.Tied up all loose ends.Glad he didn't kill Jesse and that Jesse didn't kill him.Just great all around.More discussion tomorrow. I have to go to bed.

[purpleflowers]

There is something that I have been trying to figure out about the finale (Felina) for the longest time and I'm still not sure I have it figured out. The car that Walter gets in in New Hampshire...is that a car that was provided to him for escape by the Ed guy, or some random car? And also, is it parked near his cabin way out in the middle of nowhere? That would be the only thing that makes sense to me if it WAS a car provided to him; but then why would the police sirens/lights be right outside of his car (as is apparent through the snowy windows)?  And how did he get back to his secluded area from that bar so quickly? It is really out of the way. 

 

Also, how in the world did Walter manage to get ricin inside a packet of Stevia and seal it back up again? 

Edited July 17, 2014 by purpleflowers

[Ronin Jackson]

There is something that I have been trying to figure out about the finale (Felina) for the longest time and I'm still not sure I have it figured out. The car that Walter gets in in New Hampshire...is that a car that was provided to him for escape by the Ed guy, or some random car? And also, is it parked near his cabin way out in the middle of nowhere? That would be the only thing that makes sense to me if it WAS a car provided to him; but then why would the police sirens/lights be right outside of his car (as is apparent through the snowy windows)?  And how did he get back to his secluded area from that bar so quickly? It is really out of the way. 

 

Also, how in the world did Walter manage to get ricin inside a packet of Stevia and seal it back up again? 

 

At the end of the previous episode, (Granite State) Walt is in a bar.  He calls Walt Jr. and leaves the phone off the hook so the police can trace the call (he's essentially about to give himself up).  Then he sees the Charlie Rose episode with Elliot and Gretchen and changes his mind.  The car is a random car he steals outside the bar.  The police arrive because they were lured there by Walt leaving the phone off the hook. 

 

As for the second question, that's not explained, but if there was a way I imagine a brilliant chemist could figure it out.  Perhaps he carefully opened the side of the packet and put the ricin in, then sealed it up with an adhesive.  It doesn't seem like much of a stretch.

[ChipBach]

There is something that I have been trying to figure out about the finale (Felina) for the longest time and I'm still not sure I have it figured out. The car that Walter gets in in New Hampshire...is that a car that was provided to him for escape by the Ed guy, or some random car? And also, is it parked near his cabin way out in the middle of nowhere? That would be the only thing that makes sense to me if it WAS a car provided to him; but then why would the police sirens/lights be right outside of his car (as is apparent through the snowy windows)?  And how did he get back to his secluded area from that bar so quickly? It is really out of the way. 

 

Also, how in the world did Walter manage to get ricin inside a packet of Stevia and seal it back up again? 

I thought Walter stole the car after he was told off by his son in the diner.  I thought the cops were called to the diner because Jr. alerted the police (or the school did) after the phone call.  I thought the cops were looking for Walter and he narrowly gave them the slip.

 

As far as the ricin, I think Walter could have used a syringe or resealed the packet with super glue, etc.  He was aware that she wasn't going to examine the package closely and probably could have left a little hole in it for that matter.

[halgia]

As far as the ricin, I think Walter could have used a syringe or resealed the packet with super glue, etc.  He was aware that she wasn't going to examine the package closely and probably could have left a little hole in it for that matter.

The writers had an interview on Fresh Air where I think they said something about how they could have had a scene with Walt slitting a ton of stevia packets open with a razor blade and trying to get that right, but didn't think it was really necessary.

[nomodrama]

I just finished marathoning the entire series, it took almost a month....but it was definitely worth it. What an amazing series this was, I am almost sad that it is over but I am relieved that unlike a lot of tv shows these days this one had an actual ending, and one that made sense and wrapped everything up leaving you fullfilled. 

 

One thing that is still bothering me though that I was hoping someone could help with.....I must have missed this somewhere. Do they ever explain the reason for the fallout Walt had with the Gray Matter folks? I always got the sense that perhaps Walt and Gretchen were involved at one point and then maybe she left him for the other guy....but I'm not sure. And I feel like I might not get closer from the show until I find out....

[dwmarch]

One thing that is still bothering me though that I was hoping someone could help with.....I must have missed this somewhere. Do they ever explain the reason for the fallout Walt had with the Gray Matter folks? I always got the sense that perhaps Walt and Gretchen were involved at one point and then maybe she left him for the other guy....but I'm not sure. And I feel like I might not get closer from the show until I find out....

 

Walt's beef with Gretchen and Elliot is that they basically stole his idea and got rich off of it. He had already sold his share in the company for $5000 because he needed the money at the time. Technically he's not entitled to anything but that doesn't stop him from feeling like he is.

 

They didn't get into whether or not there was a love triangle but I assume there was. We see Walt and Gretchen together in a couple of flashbacks.

[Valny]

Does anyone know of any other BB forums where they discuss by each episode? My friend just finished S5 and she used to love to read comments but I didn't get a chance to copy the comments for her from over there before the forums closed down. . I've been searching a bit but can't find anything as structured as TWoP.  (but really, nothing could be better than that site.)

[purpleflowers]

 

 

One thing that is still bothering me though that I was hoping someone could help with.....I must have missed this somewhere. Do they ever explain the reason for the fallout Walt had with the Gray Matter folks? I always got the sense that perhaps Walt and Gretchen were involved at one point and then maybe she left him for the other guy....but I'm not sure. And I feel like I might not get closer from the show until I find out....

It's not stated in the show itself explicitly, but the backstory is that Walt and Gretchen were romantically involved and he felt insecure because of her family's affluent background. There is a flashback in one of the earlier seasons of a younger Walt and Gretchen flirting in a classroom. 

Also, as dwmarch mentioned, Walt feels betrayed because he things Gretchen and Elliott profited partially off of his research and brilliance. 

 

Valny, try Breaking Bad Wiki

[Lisin]

@Valny The Internet archive did manage to get all the TWoP forums, if you are just looking to read them you can find them on the wayback machine. 

[Valny]

Thanks @Lisin. I will try the Wayback Machine.

 

ETA- ok I couldn't find anything. Am I doing something wrong? When I got to the site and typed television without pity in the search, that didn't even come up! :(

ETA#2  Ok, I figured it out. I had to first type in http://    and not just television without pity in the search bar. Sheesh, so specific.     YES! I am happy to say the BB forums are there. My friend with be very appreciative and so am I.

 

Valny, try Breaking Bad Wiki 

 

Thanks @purpleflowers, I did. Not much in the way of episode discussions unfortunately.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Valny

[Joimiaroxeu]

OMG shoot out in the desert! The Nazis just came and shot up Hank and Gomez,not sure who is shot,uugh!

OMG they killed Hank!

I'm rewatching the final season and just finished the episode where the shootout begins. It's tragic what happens to Hank but I put about 90% of it on him. If he had just left after arresting Walt instead hanging around to call Marie and brag, he probably not only would still be alive but would've succeeded in his takedown of Walt. Hank's ego was always a problem and it was his ultimate undoing.

[Ronin Jackson]

I'm rewatching the final season and just finished the episode where the shootout begins. It's tragic what happens to Hank but I put about 90% of it on him. If he had just left after arresting Walt instead hanging around to call Marie and brag, he probably not only would still be alive but would've succeeded in his takedown of Walt. Hank's ego was always a problem and it was his ultimate undoing.

 

Hank really didn't have any reason to suspect they were in for an ambush.  If Hank made a mistake, it was insisting on taking down Walt by himself... but even that was understandable.  It was going to ruin his career one way or the other, at least being the guy to take down Walt would have given him some measure of redemption.

 

Needless to say I disagree with the 90% thing... Walt is the primary culprit... he chose to start cooking, become a meth kingpin and become the Moby Dick to Hank's Ahab... he chose to start doing business with the Nazis.  I'd say those factors had a little more to do with Hank getting killed than Hank calling Marie to brag...

[Joimiaroxeu]

Oy, there's always the "which came first, chicken or egg?" argument. Of course Walt is overall responsible for the entire situation. I was speaking to that particular moment in the saga. I think if Hank had simply left when arrest was done he probably wouldn't have been there for the shootout to occur. He could have called Marie later but no, he just had to brag right away and he had to assume that he had all bases covered. He knew what kind of stuff Walt had pulled before and I don't think expecting a possible ambush was out of the question. I agree, he should have come with more backup than his partner.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Joimiaroxeu

[Ronin Jackson]

 

I don't think expecting a possible ambush was out of the question.

 

It's borderline expecting him to be psychic.  Hank had his flaws, sure, as did every character in the show, which was actually one of the themes of the show (even master criminal Gus was taken down because his weakness was exploited).  But IMO I can't see an argument that Hank is 90% responsible for his own death because he failed to get heebee jeebees and hightail it outta there the moment he snagged Walt.

[Joimiaroxeu]

But IMO I can't see an argument that Hank is 90% responsible for his own death because he failed to get heebee jeebees and hightail it outta there the moment he snagged Walt.

Okay, how about 37.821% responsible?

 

He wouldn't need to get any heebee jeebees and run like scared prey. He'd just need to be a professional and realize that he was dealing with arguably the biggest gangster in NM (at the moment, anyway) who should be handled with the utmost caution. Heisenberg staged a multi-location hit on about a dozen people at the same time. Who knows what kind of resources he could draw upon (and did) if he felt he desperately needed to protect his money? But no, Hank had to be a braggart cowboy and look where it got him.

[ChipBach]

Okay, how about 37.821% responsible?

 

He wouldn't need to get any heebee jeebees and run like scared prey. He'd just need to be a professional and realize that he was dealing with arguably the biggest gangster in NM (at the moment, anyway) who should be handled with the utmost caution. Heisenberg staged a multi-location hit on about a dozen people at the same time. Who knows what kind of resources he could draw upon (and did) if he felt he desperately needed to protect his money? But no, Hank had to be a braggart cowboy and look where it got him.

 

I am in the camp that Hank was at fault.  Once they had Pinkman, he could have had at least six or seven guys to follow on the trap they set for Walter.  Jessie was good for setting up Lydia, Todd, et al.  I know he wanted to catch Walt with the money, but adding three more cars to that chase would have made the difference.  Hank not only had an over sized ego, he also had the whole macho guy thing getting in his way... 

[Hanahope]

It's not stated in the show itself explicitly, but the backstory is that Walt and Gretchen were romantically involved and he felt insecure because of her family's affluent background. There is a flashback in one of the earlier seasons of a younger Walt and Gretchen flirting in a classroom.

Also, as dwmarch mentioned, Walt feels betrayed because he things Gretchen and Elliott profited partially off of his research and brilliance.

 

 

I could have sworn there was also some mention about Gretchen's father trying to 'pay-off' Walt to go away, but he wouldn't.  I'm not sure if that was because Walt was a professor and Gretchen a student/grad student at the time and the family didn't like that, or whether Gretchen's father saw the hint of Walt's narcissism/ego and knew something wasn't right.  In any event, it seemed to me that somehow her family "interfered" with the relationship near the time the three of them were forming Grey Matter and then Gretchen was either pushed or gravitated closer to Elliott. 

 

Walt realized he lost Gretchen and was pissed off and couldn't stay working with the two, so believing in his own brilliance took his $5,000 (which probably at the time seemed like a windfall) and struck out on his own.  Unfortunately for him, not only was Grey Matter able to succeed brilliantly based on Walt's ideas, but apparently Walt's personality made it impossible for him to get and/or stay in good paying jobs and that's how he ended up teaching.  Walt's a genius, but he doesn't play well with others.  Sometimes you end up as Steve Jobs, sometimes as Heisenberg.

[larapu2000]

I thought Walter stole the car after he was told off by his son in the diner.  I thought the cops were called to the diner because Jr. alerted the police (or the school did) after the phone call.  I thought the cops were looking for Walter and he narrowly gave them the slip.

 

Nope.  Walt talks to Jr, decides he is going to turn himself in, because he calls the DEA and then leaves the receiver hanging so that they can trace the call.  He settles in to have one last drink at the bar, and then sees the interview with Elliott and Gretchen and decides that he has a few things he needs to take care of first...

[KnoxForPres]

Well, I just finished it this morning via Netflix.

Overall I thought it was excellent with the 4th season being my favorite.

It was a satisfying finale which is hard to pull off on any "great" series. I hated Walt and loved Jesse from nearly the first.

An interesting part for me is when I hit play this morning for the finale, I was ready for it to be over. I didn't have the sadness I have for the end like some other shows or even great books. For me, I think that puts me in a camp of I thought it was great, but by no means one of the best series ever made. Blasphemous words, I know.

I'm glad I watched it. I'm looking forward being able to read insight on the net now that my fear of spoilers is no longer applicable.

[dogncatmom]

Knox, I just finished watching the series Friday and I, too, was ready for it to be over when it was, mainly because it was just too intense to keep going.  The last season was so dark.  Walt had to die.  I never hated him; I hated things he did, but I kind of understood how he was what he was.  But yeah, he had to go.

 

I have the utmost respect for Bryan Cranston.  That was the role of a lifetime and he portrayed it expertly.

[DangerousMinds]

I watched all 5 seasons on Netflix in just a couple weeks. I was obsessed , but also ready for it to end by the finale. So glad I wasn't completely spoiled, though. A crazy ride!

[KnoxForPres]

Knox, I just finished watching the series Friday and I, too, was ready for it to be over when it was, mainly because it was just too intense to keep going. The last season was so dark. Walt had to die. I never hated him; I hated things he did, but I kind of understood how he was what he was. But yeah, he had to go.

I have the utmost respect for Bryan Cranston. That was the role of a lifetime and he portrayed it expertly.

I wish I had known and we could have talked about it together as we went through it!

Yes, what an amazing role for Bryan Cranston. Role of a lifetime, indeed. But unlike Don Draper or Dexter (severely flawed leads is all I mean), I never really cared about Walt. I understood his motivation but that wasn't enough to keep me in the game or even care if he lived. When I finished I texted my friend and he said "Was Walt amazing or what". So I'm very aware that I'm in the minority.

I love those Comcast commercials with the guy who played Badger and that sweet little pup.

Edited August 10, 2014 by KnoxForPres

[dogncatmom]

I wish I had known and we could have talked about it together as we went through it!

Yes, what an amazing role for Bryan Cranston. Role of a lifetime, indeed. But unlike Don Draper or Dexter (severely flawed leads is all I mean), I never really cared about Walt. I understood his motivation but that wasn't enough to keep me in the game or even care if he lived. When I finished I texted my friend and he said "Was Walt amazing or what". So I'm very aware that I'm in the minority.

I love those Comcast commercials with the guy who played Badger and that sweet little pup.

 

Ha!  That would have been a kick to experience it along with someone going at the same pace.  Walt was by no means a likable character, but I "got" him and he made me feel a range of emotions.

[ghoulina]

Another one here who just finished binge watching the series over the summer. I have to say, I started out not loving it and wondering what all the hype was about. I thought it was good, entertaining...I wanted to keep watching. But it didn't really reel me in the way other shows have. Until this final season. I just thought it was amazing and the last few episodes were some of the best tv I've ever seen. Looking back, I feel like this is a show you cannot judge until you've seen it in its entirety. Now I absolutely love it. I think it was a really strong show because they had a story to tell, they told it beautifully, and got the hell out. Some shows that start out great (Dexter I'm looking at you) end up putting out too many episodes to keep the ratings up, even though the show is well past its prime. This was not one of those. It truly went out with a bang. I just find it to be such an interesting show because I started out really liking Walt and kind of empathizing with what he did. But by the end, I hated him and wanted him to die. But....but....then at the VERY end I actually felt myself feeling sorry for him, crying because his son hated him, crying as he said his last goodbye to his wife and baby girl. Gah! I was like - what has this show done to me??? Such complex characters, such amazing writing, such powerful acting. This show truly touched me. 

 

 

 

 

I'm rewatching the final season and just finished the episode where the shootout begins. It's tragic what happens to Hank but I put about 90% of it on him. If he had just left after arresting Walt instead hanging around to call Marie and brag, he probably not only would still be alive but would've succeeded in his takedown of Walt. Hank's ego was always a problem and it was his ultimate undoing.

 

I don't think Hank calling Marie at that point was about ego. He knew that Marie had been super upset about the whole thing, worried about the kids and disgusted with Walt. She wanted him behind bars just as much as Hank did. So I think him calling her was more about just putting her mind at ease, telling someone who knew how much it meant to him.  And really, if he hadn't made that call, no one would have known that something went down. Skylar and Flynn knowing that Hank was dead and Walt was somehow involved (from their perspective) was key in them finally being done with him. 

[fnftw]

I recently finished binge-watching this brilliant brilliant show (Can't believe it took me so long), and though there isn't much left to say that hasn't been already said, one thing always bothered me 'til the very end- Jesse never realizing how much Walter cared about him. To me, one of the most beautiful and compelling things about the show with its dark, violent and immoral theme, was Walter's love for Jesse. I thought it was his one redeeming quality, the only person he cared about that wasn't his immediate family. I found myself tearing my hair out with frustration at various times, as Jesse never saw it. Ever. It got to a point where Hank had to spell it out for him. Hank! And even then it did not sink in. Walter has done truly terrible things to Jesse, no doubt, which made Jesse angry, resentful and suspicious (rightfully so), but I was still hoping that maybe, just for once in the entire series, he'd get it. I felt bad for Walter at the end, but was glad he got to spend his final breath with his one true love (the lab).

 

P.S.

Bryan Cranston is just magnificent and a joy to watch in interviews as well.

[ghoulina]

I don't know, if I was Jesse and had been through all that Walt put him through, I might not be able to see that Walt really cared about me. He had an odd way of showing it. That was kind of the tragedy of Walter White, he would do things that HE thought were the best for someone else, but it didn't always come across that way to everyone else. And we had the advantage of seeing both characters' perspective, but Jesse didn't. Walt was also often very condescending to Jesse and treated him like an idiot, and Jesse already had very low self esteem and felt worthless. So I can't really blame him for not seeing that in his own twisted way Walt did love him. 

[fnftw]

Oh I don't blame Jesse, the main reason I so wanted him to see it, was for himself, not for Walter. I think that Walter cared deeply about Jesse, a lot more than Jesse cared about Walt. I love Jesse, he's the only character I liked through the entire series. I actually don't think any of the characters on the show are particularly likable. I didn't hate any of them, not even Walter who has done truly despicable things to every single person he claimed to care about, but I didn't "like" them either. That is, except for Jesse. Another poster mentioned on the Jesse thread that they wanted to give him a hug after losing Jane, I wanted to give him a hug the entire series. His relationship with Walter was one of the best things on the show for me. It was sick and abusive but there was also such loyalty, concern and even love in it (on Walt's part, which is why he took Jesse's "betrayal" so hard). Jesse looked up to Walter a bit as a father figure whose approval and affection he sought and never felt he got. That scene in 5x11 where Walter tries to convince him to "disappear" for his own good and Jesse yells at him that he doesn't care two sh!ts about him, broke my heart. Walt then goes to hug him in response and it was such a precious moment I couldn't believe how they gave us such a beautiful moment only to snatch it away two seconds later, with Jesse realizing it was Walter who poisoned Brock. I just wish that even with all the truly horrid things he'd done, Jesse would realize that Walter cared a great deal about him. I shared Walt's frustration when he was yelling at him on the phone (in the car) that everything he'd done was in order to save Jesse as well as himself. That was one of Walter's very few moments of truth. 

Edited August 14, 2014 by fnftw

[DangerousMinds]

I thought Walt wanted Jesse to disappear mostly for Walt's own good.

I loved two characters: Hank and Walter Jr. Marie was likeable for me also.

[ghoulina]

I agree. I totally thought Walt wanted Jesse to leave as to not be a problem. Walt was always trying to manipulate Jesse, and finally he didn't fall for it. 

[fnftw]

I thought Walt wanted Jesse to disappear mostly for Walt's own good.

 

He did.

I did not mean to imply otherwise in my previous post ("for his own good" needed quotation marks maybe). I don't see the characters on the show in terms of all good or all bad. Walter was always working Jesse and manipulating him into things, right from the start, that doesn't change the part in the relationship that was honest and true. At the time of that scene, Walter was so far gone, he was barely thinking in terms of 'people' at all. However, at that moment, on that spot on the desert far away from the lab and the business, the hurt, scared and broken Jesse, got to him. He (Walt) dropped the act and in what I perceived as genuine response and emotion, went to hold him. I thought that scene was beautiful, and (unfortunately) rare at that point.

[Andromeda]

I just finished watching the finale, and now I can sum up my opinion...Breaking Bad is the BEST TELEVISION SHOW EVER MADE.

 

I’ve watched a lot of TV — entire series, too — and this is the only one I can recall that had NO bad episodes, had a coherent storyline through all of its seasons, had characters who grew and changed and evolved in logical ways and didn’t suddenly do way-out-of-character things, and it had a satisfying ending that tied up all the important plot points (so many series bomb on the wrap-up). It was just so well done visually, too, and the acting was stellar. Not a wasted minute, things brought up in the very beginning resolved, and a strong theme throughout -- so few TV shows manage that!! The drug manufacturing and all the stuff that came with it turned out to be Walter’s drug. He finally came to the truth in the end, that he wasn’t really doing it for his family, but for himself. He became addicted to it -- and while I expected him to check out, I did not see it happening like that. This show continued to offer surprises.

 

OK, I could go on…I can’t believe it’s over! But it ended exactly when it needed to. It deserves every award it ever received and then some. WOW.

 

I’m so glad I saw it. If I’d known it was this amaze-balls I would have watched it when it was new, but the drug thing put me off. So, so worth it. It will stick with me a long time, and it’s a really hard bar for any show to top from here on out in terms of overall quality.

 

WOW.  I have to find out what Vince Gilligan is working on next. (I remember his X-Files episodes as being some of the best -- he was a new talent then.)

 

As for Season 5 particulars, I felt so awful for Hank, and what Jesse went through -- I hope he will be able to start anew. If anyone deserves to walk away, it's him. I was so glad when he turned state's evidence, but I was equally glad that Walter saved him in the end -- once Walt saw Jesse was a prisoner, he stopped worrying about his damned ego over the "blue" and did what was right. How ironic that his own bullet brought him down, and thank goodness he took those scumbag Nazis with him.

 

I was on pins and needles the last few episodes, so stressed out and worried that Jesse was going to be killed. I hated seeing that Nazi Todd holding him prisoner. Now that I know the outcome, I can relax more on rewatch! Whew. I love Jesse. I am SO now an Aaron Paul fan! ow I just have to imagine that he made his way to Alaska and started a new life as  woodorker.

 

I felt so bad for Walt Jr. A small role, but the actor did a great job. Poor kid just couldn't catch a break, cerebral palsey AND a meth-lord father.

 

I just find it to be such an interesting show because I started out really liking Walt and kind of empathizing with what he did. But by the end, I hated him and wanted him to die. But....but....then at the VERY end I actually felt myself feeling sorry for him, crying because his son hated him, crying as he said his last goodbye to his wife and baby girl. Gah! I was like - what has this show done to me??? Such complex characters, such amazing writing, such powerful acting. This show truly touched me. 

 

I know! I felt exactly the same. This show really knew how to engage our emotions!

 

To me, one of the most beautiful and compelling things about the show with its dark, violent and immoral theme, was Walter's love for Jesse.

Until he decided he had to kill him. Walt was happy loving Jesse -- in fact, I think mentoring him boosted his ego -- until it was inconvenient. He manipulated Jesse for as long as he could get away with it, which really disgusted me. I was so happy when Jesse finally saw it.

 

Walt then goes to hug him in response and it was such a precious moment I couldn't believe how they gave us such a beautiful moment only to snatch it away two seconds later, with Jesse realizing it was Walter who poisoned Brock.

I don't know. I thought it was only half precious. Walt was still manipulating Jesse, but also longed for Jesse to like him again, again because of his massive ego, plus when Jesse thinks Walt is there for him, Walt can manipulate him. And the hug worked. Jesse did, after all, take his advice to leave town (until he figured out the Brock poisoning situation). That was exactly what Walt wanted when they were in the desert. And don't forget how nasty Walt was when Jesse didn't see him as his "caring mentor" -- like throwing in Jesse's face that he let Jane die in a later desert scene.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Andromeda

[walnutqueen]

Andromeda, your enthusiasm reminds me how much I love every golden moment of this show.  I am on my Sunday evening binge watch #GodOnlyKnowsHowManyAMCmarathons  ...  :-)

 

 

ETA - the old TWoP boards were ever so helpful to me, because the layers of detail were daunting.  They had an entire thread about color themes that made me go back and watch it all over again!  :-)

Edited September 4, 2014 by walnutqueen

[ghoulina]

See, I wish the board was still up when I began watching this show!

[walnutqueen]

BTW, the archived TWoP BB threads are online, thanks to regularlyleaded. Message me if you want link and login.

 

 

ETA - this was from the Small Talk thread ... thanks, shapeshifter!

Edited September 4, 2014 by walnutqueen

[DangerousMinds]

See, I wish the board was still up when I began watching this show!

I recently watched the entire series for the first time on Netflix, following along with the old TWOP boards via the Wayback Machine. You can still access everything.

Edited September 5, 2014 by DangerousMinds

[ghoulina]

Oh really? Could someone PM me how to access it? Thanks!

[BetyBee]

I've been re-watching for days and I am surprised at how much I dislike Walt this time around. And I feel supportive of Schyler.  I did not see that coming. I think it's different when you marathon watch vs. normal viewing.  I'm about halfway through season 5.  It's has dang ego that gets in the way every time.  I've also noticed that he seems to blab a lot when he's under the influence, which is rare, but always has consequences.

[ghoulina]

Yea, Walt definitely did not know when to shut up. He would just keep going and going, as if he thought he could talk his way out of things. But he would often end up just making things worse. 

[ladyrott]

Walt definitely didn't know when to keep his mouth shut.  Hank thought he HAD his Heisenberg when the coffee dude was killed (I NEVER can remember his name but I loved the character and his hero worship of Walt) until Walt had to run off about how the guy was just a wanna be and the real Heisenberg was still out there, in his opinion.  Skylar looked like she wanted to kill him when he did that and for once, I agreed with her.  Walt's ego just couldn't let someone else get the credit.  It was the beginning of the end for him.