S02.E03: Better Angels

[Tiger]

For a split second I thought Thompson was going to deck her for that crack. No wonder Sousa was hauling her out of there as fast as he could.

Why oh why can't we have 22 episodes of Peggy and knock S.H.I.E.L.D down to a yearly short run instead?

I'd rather have 22 of each and less other things ABC airs.

How many episodes are we getting this year?

[Julia]

I'm a little surprised by that interpretation. I thought he was a little nettled that Howard thought he was unusually 'white' (or, as Howard described it, hidebound and stupid) and the turkish thing was a way of saying that he wasn't all _that_ white.

 

I'd be willing to bet the members of that club wouldn't have considered Mrs. Jarvis to be 'white'.

[lulee]

Can one Sklar live when the other dies?

 

I liked the 1/16 Turkish line from Jarvis. Just another example of an unexpected detail that works.

Edited January 27, 2016 by lulee

[that one guy]

Howard: You want to play a sassy beer wench?

Peggy: I’d rather be the cowboy.

Howard: I like it. I don’t think the audience is ready yet.

Peggy: But they’re ready for a movie based on a comic book? Sounds like a dreadful idea!

 

This is the most meta thing I have seen since J.J.Abrams cast his assistant, Morgan Dameron, as "Commodore Meta" after already naming another character after her. It was all I could do not to spit beer all over the living room floor. Touche, Mr. Molina.

[VCRTracking]

Holy Hedy Lamarr, what an episode!

 

Hayley Atwell just continues to crush it. If Agent Carter doesn't get renewed(which seems likely unfortunately) I want Hayley to be in another series.

 

Peggy and Jarvis side-stepping out of the shot. They had to know they were making a GIF when they wrote that.

 

I love Howard and Wilkes as the new "Science Bros".

 

Jarvis: "I have no desire to spend the rest of time as a disembodied voice." 

I'm ashamed it took a Tumblr post for me to get that in-joke.

Edited January 27, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Minneapple]

I love Peggy, Howard, Jarvis, Souza and Wilkes working together as a team. All of the characters separately are well-done and together they have a terrific dynamic.

 

Thompson as a sort-of-shady good guy works for me. I like that he's not a complete moron and is treading carefully rather than being led along like an idiot.

 

Whitney Frost is an amazing villain. 

[Texasmom1970]

I loved Jarvis starting to tell Peggy that he could be her sparring partner but quickly saying Mrs. Jarvis. Too funny!

I cannot figure out if CMM has become a better actor, or if he is just a huge asshole in real life and it comes across so easily on screen.

Again I want every outfit Hayley wore, and I will take her figure as well. I wish I had her curves.

[Tim Thomason]

Easter egg...Kid Colt was actually a Marvel Comic but debuted in August 1948, about a year after this takes place.  But I'm not exactly going to hold them to stuff like that.

According to Howard, Kid Colt was an historical figure (note: in the real world, he isn't). So a version of Blaine Colt apparently exists in the MCU and has had comics based off of him prior to 1947.

[Sandman]

So Whitney Frost is evil Hedy Lamarr?

 

I vote we call her "Head-ly."

[MisterGlass]

"Okie" is an offensive slur word.

 

I'd be willing to bet the members of that club wouldn't have considered Mrs. Jarvis to be 'white'.

 

It's interesting how much they are referencing slurs and prejudice this season.  They're doing it overtly with Dr. Wilkes and a little more subtly with the Arena club.  And I agree, Mrs. Jarvis would not meeting that club's standard even if she were male.  I remember hearing there was a lot of anti-semitism in this era even in the U.S., and even Jewish movie studio executives tried not to stand out.  In 1947 there was a movie made called "Gentleman's Agreement" that was about anti-semitic discrimination.  "Okie" is also of the period, especially for California.  John Steinbeck used it prominently in "The Grapes of Wrath" in his description of the Joads' journey from Oklahoma to California.

[snarktini]

Y'all have covered most of the funny dialogue: who's a good boy...don't want to be a disembodied voice...I get confused around books.

 

The other one that made me laugh:

"From the pharmacy get me some saline solution and some sterilized water. From the lab get me some silver halide and some ammonium thiosulfate. And pick up any heavy metal you can find, just in case. Oh and from the market get me some of that cheese I like, you know, that yellow one."

"Velveeta. I'll get two bricks."

 

Velveeta: The perfect cheese for a scientist.

[Bruinsfan]

I think Peggy thought he might deck her too...and welcomed the idea!

Yeah, Jack can be dangerous to her as her boss by relegating her to sandwich and coffee duty again, or in extremis firing her. But if she had to take a punch from him with both hands tied behind her back I'd bet on Peggy knowing how to angle her jaw and break his hand instead. He would forevermore become the guy who decked a woman and subsequently was used by her for floor mopping.

[Sandman]

Hee. And she'd be "Iron-Jaw" Carter.

"Did you hear about Thompson? The only guy in the SSR with two medals and a glass fist."

[Cthulhudrew]

Easter egg...Kid Colt was actually a Marvel Comic but debuted in August 1948, about a year after this takes place.  But I'm not exactly going to hold them to stuff like that.

Only in our "real" world; in the Marvel Universe he's a real character (as Howard points out, even in the Marvel Cinematic Universe).

 

I had a feeling we'd "see" Wilkes again, considering the character he is based on, although I didn't think it would be quite so soon. I also think that they're pushing the Peggy/Wilkes romance too much for it not to be anything but a red herring at this point as to who she ends up with. I'm still of the opinion that she and Jarvis will end up together, eventually.

 

Speaking of Easter Eggs, I guess I missed the senator's name last week. Chadwick- can only mean we might be seeing another "secret" organization of the Marvel Universe this season.  

 

I see the seeds of Agent Thompson struggling with his baser side and redeeming himself. Too bad Chad Michael Murray is not nearly as charismatic or talented an actor as Shea Whigham, whose subtle and nuanced performance as Agent Dooley last season played a similar role, but far more convincingly and winningly. I wish they hadn't killed him off. :(

 

And on a final note, I know this is comics and all, but Jarvis clocked that guy with a dumbbell. Looked like at least a twenty pounder. I don't think the guy should have just shrugged that off. *shrug*

Edited January 28, 2016 by Cthulhudrew

[VCRTracking]

I had a feeling we'd "see" Wilkes again, considering the character he is based on, although I didn't think it would be quite so soon. I also think that they're pushing the Peggy/Wilkes romance too much for it not to be anything but a red herring at this point as to who she ends up with. I'm still of the opinion that she and Jarvis will end up together, eventually.

I prefer them as platonic friends and also it's been established she ends up marrying one of the soldiers that Cap had rescued sometime during World War II. Plus I like Anna.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Agent Carter's Science Is Tight
It's not magic. It's just science that follows no rules or logic. So it's okay.

[Anthea]

I just loved this episode, and I can't believe the ratings. 

 

Finally Stark is back, he's jerkish, but he's the kind of jerk with a good heart. I laughed out loud at the scene where Peggy told him "who's a good boy".  Team Carter work so well (just throw everybody in it, Sousa, Jarvis, Stark, now I think we can add Wilkes too). Can't wait to see what sort of villain Whitney Frost turns into, we've only seen the beginning.

Could have lived without Thompson coming to LA, and I loved how Peggy called him out. I usually love Peggy to the moon and back, but gladly they remind us of some of her flaws.

[anna0852]

I love that Peggy is not shown as perfect. She has a terrible temper, a nasty habit of running off at the mouth when mad and really doesn't work very well with others. But that just makes her a better character.

[DeLurker]

Seemed like Whitney Frost's Zero Matter scar kept switching sides on her forehead...or maybe I need to get more sleep.

[Bort]

Seemed like Whitney Frost's Zero Matter scar kept switching sides on her forehead...or maybe I need to get more sleep.

Some of the shots were being reflected in the mirror she was looking in. It was throwing me off a little bit too.

[Sandman]

I too like the fact that Peggy is shown to have flaws -- she's both admirable and lovable, but not everything she does is either; she's imperfect in ways that are consistent and make sense for her as a character. I think she's also capable of growth, which is the other characteristic separating well realized characters from the Mary Sues. There's a reason why Howard is a minor character, and Peg is the protagonist.

[kili]

I think they are angling Thompson into a bit of Peggy's role from last season.

 

I suspect he's going rogue in his own way investigating the crime, but not letting the rest of the team in on it (probably partially because he wants the glory this time, partially because he knows they don't trust him and partially because Peggy has gone a little off the rails taking risks and stomping on the constitution. He's not wrong that government agencies should not be planting bugs without a warrant. Or the need for some evidence. And if there is a high-powered conspiracy, changing Peggy's report to look like the SSR is in the dark is a good strategy). He hasn't let on to anyone that he watched that film or that he believes Peggy's story in any way. He could have handed the film over to Red so that he can get on the inside and we next see him in the club.

 

They showed some growth in Thompson's character last season and I don't want to see a total reset on him where he has to learn the same lessons again. I think it would be more interesting if he's playing his own game. He can still be an ambitious dick, but he should be trusting Peggy's instincts after last season. If he trusts her while knowing she doesn't trust him, that could be interesting. It also makes the "pin a medal" speech interaction more interesting. Peggy is the only one he trusted with the secret, so her burning him looked pretty painful and shocking to him. He had trusted her to never do that. It might make him less likely to tell her his plan.

 

Of course, Thompson isn't anywhere near the agent Peggy is, so it will blow up in his face and he will need some rescuing later. Even if my theory that he does have a plan is wrong, she's going to save his ass at some point.

 

Jarvis was brilliant, but I find Stark a little too cartoony at times. That club has lousy security if they hadn't managed to do anything about all those girls during the time they were there. That was one boring club. I wonder who took over directing Stark's movie while he is in Peru?

Edited January 29, 2016 by kili

[Conchobara]

For a split second I thought Thompson was going to deck her for that crack. No wonder Sousa was hauling her out of there as fast as he could.

 

Why oh why can't we have 22 episodes of Peggy and knock S.H.I.E.L.D down to a yearly short run instead?

I think the reason Agent Carter is *so* good and SHIELD is often lackluster is that we don't have 22 episodes of her (this is by far my favorite TV show on network TV).  There's no room for filler, just story and character development.  I think SHIELD (and most shows) would be better if they had one major arc to focus on for 6-8 weeks and really put the time and thought into it.  This is how the UK does TV, and why the indies and short season shows are kicking traditional TV's behind--make it fun, make it binge-worthy, make it interesting.  When not forced to fill a bunch of episodes with fluff, they can really focus on the good stuff.

[Conchobara]

I love that Peggy is not shown as perfect. She has a terrible temper, a nasty habit of running off at the mouth when mad and really doesn't work very well with others. But that just makes her a better character.

One of the best things about this show is how they allow for character development, flaws and all.  I think nuanced characters are far more interesting than ciphers.

[anna0852]

I think they are angling Thompson into a bit of Peggy's role from last season.

 

I suspect he's going rogue in his own way investigating the crime, but not letting the rest of the team in on it (probably partially because he wants the glory this time, partially because he knows they don't trust him and partially because Peggy has gone a little off the rails taking risks and stomping on the constitution. He's not wrong that government agencies should not be planting bugs without a warrant. Or the need for some evidence. And if there is a high-powered conspiracy, changing Peggy's report to look like the SSR is in the dark is a good strategy). He hasn't let on to anyone that he watched that film or that he believes Peggy's story in any way. He could have handed the film over to Red so that he can get on the inside and we next see him in the club.

 

They showed some growth in Thompson's character last season and I don't want to see a total reset on him where he has to learn the same lessons again. I think it would be more interesting if he's playing his own game. He can still be an ambitious dick, but he should be trusting Peggy's instincts after last season. If he trusts her while knowing she doesn't trust him, that could be interesting. It also makes the "pin a medal" speech interaction more interesting. Peggy is the only one he trusted with the secret, so her burning him looked pretty painful and shocking to him. He had trusted her to never do that. It might make him less likely to tell her his plan.

 

Of course, Thompson isn't anywhere near the agent Peggy is, so it will blow up in his face and he will need some rescuing later. Even if my theory that he does have a plan is wrong, she's going to save his ass at some point.

That is an interesting take on Thompson and similar to what I've had kicking around in my own head. He's clearly aware that Red Foreman is trying to play him and he's pretty craftily letting Red think he's succeeding. 

 

And for all that he is a jerk, Thompson had a very good point about warrants and constitutional rights. I wonder if Peggy's disregard for such niceties is how S.H.I.E.L.D ended up with a similar institutional mindset. And at least partially how HYDRA was able to get in and establish themselves. Peg can quite easily stray into grey areas and that probably led to the recruiting of people with comparable outlooks. And sooner or later some of those black-side-of-grey folks came into contact with Zola and Whitehall. And now we're off to the races.

 

Your thoughts about Thompson trusting Peggy were pretty astute I thought. He did trust her with a major secret and she threw it back in his face hardcore. She didn't do herself any favors with that. I think Thompson trusts her instincts but is having a hard time trusting the person. And that crack didn't help at all. She has a big enough obstacle in getting Thompson to look past the fact that she is female (for the record here in 2016, I think that mentality is crap but the show is set in 1947). She is going to have to work harder than the men around her for the trust and respect. It sucks but she is. And learning when to better deploy her temper and sharp tongue are going to have to be part of it.

 

The writers really do have a tough balancing act here, in how they the portray the 1947 reality for women in the workplace. Stick to the historical truth and the viewers here in 2016 will scream down the roof at the sexism.  Present something more idealized and deal with the 'fantasy' fallout. I don't envy them.

[Sandman]

He's clearly aware that Red Foreman is trying to play him and he's pretty craftily letting Red think he's succeeding.

It's probably too simplistic, but I confess for a moment I thought Thompson might have switched out the film before handing over the canister to FBI Red.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Sandman

[stealinghome]

Your thoughts about Thompson trusting Peggy were pretty astute I thought. He did trust her with a major secret and she threw it back in his face hardcore. She didn't do herself any favors with that. I think Thompson trusts her instincts but is having a hard time trusting the person. And that crack didn't help at all. She has a big enough obstacle in getting Thompson to look past the fact that she is female (for the record here in 2016, I think that mentality is crap but the show is set in 1947). She is going to have to work harder than the men around her for the trust and respect. It sucks but she is. And learning when to better deploy her temper and sharp tongue are going to have to be part of it.

Peggy played nice and by the rules and worked harder than everyone else in S1, though, and what did it get her? Being treated like shit on a shoe. Even now, Thompson--whose bacon she has saved several times and who really ought to know better on multiple levels--is a real dick to her in a way he would not be a dick to a man. I understand what you're saying and I would agree IF we had any evidence that Peggy playing nice ever actually got her anywhere. But it never has. As that's the case, I don't blame her one whit for going at Thompson guns blazing when he's completely in the wrong. It at least got him to sit up and take notice more than her playing nice ever did. If Thompson can't stand the heat, he should get out of the kitchen. You don't want people to be jerks to you? Don't be a jerk to them. And for God's sake, don't undermine an investigation that has direct implications for the fate of the entire world.

 

I am generally not a Sousa fan, but I loved when he refused to have drinks with Thompson. You go not positively reinforcing bad behavior, Sousa!

Edited January 30, 2016 by stealinghome

[anna0852]

Peggy played nice and by the rules and worked harder than everyone else in S1, though, and what did it get her? Being treated like shit on a shoe. Even now, Thompson--whose bacon she has saved several times and who really ought to know better on multiple levels--is a real dick to her in a way he would not be a dick to a man. I understand what you're saying and I would agree IF we had any evidence that Peggy playing nice ever actually got her anywhere. But it never has. As that's the case, I don't blame her one whit for going at Thompson guns blazing when he's completely in the wrong. It at least got him to sit up and take notice more than her playing nice ever did. If Thompson can't stand the heat, he should get out of the kitchen. You don't want people to be jerks to you? Don't be a jerk to them. And for God's sake, don't undermine an investigation that has direct implications for the fate of the entire world.

 

I am generally not a Sousa fan, but I loved when he refused to have drinks with Thompson. You go not positively reinforcing bad behavior, Sousa!

Oh I don't mean she should play nice!

 

I just mean that she has some formidable weapons in her tongue and her temper and needs to work on when to better deploy them, that's all.

[Terrafamilia]

I am generally not a Sousa fan, but I loved when he refused to have drinks with Thompson. You go not positively reinforcing bad behavior, Sousa!

I understand Sousa's decision but it looked like Thompson really wanted/needed a little bro time to awkwardly talk about important stuff.

[kili]

Peggy played nice and by the rules and worked harder than everyone else in S1, though, and what did it get her?

Peggy is in a better place than she was in Season 1. She was nothing more than a filing clerk and coffee gopher at the start of Season 1. At the start of Season 2, she's an active agent who is given the responsibility of taking down a major bad person (Dottie) in the opening sequence. She then gets to be the lead interrogator and is greatly admired by others in the office. She may still not be as far along as she should be, but she did make progress.

 

I don't blame her one whit for going at Thompson guns blazing when he's completely in the wrong.

I think she made a mistake there. If she'd gone after something job related (goodness knows, she certainly had enough job-related things she could have used in the same way), it would be one thing. But she used something deeply personal he'd told her in confidence outside of the job. And she did it in front of another person. She totally hit bellow the belt with that one and Peggy doesn't usually does that. Peggy took the "death" of Wilkes very badly and she was lashing out. In that scene, even Sousa thinks she's taken it too far objecting after she calls Thompson a coward.

 

And Thompson is not completely in the wrong. He is the one in the scene arguing against the indiscriminate bugging of US citizens without a warrant (which is still an issue today as Snowdon raised). He's also asking for some evidence he can use to take actions about serious allegations. He's being a dick about it as usual, but he's not wrong. Again, after the burn, Sousa defends Thompson by telling Peggy that Thompson is not wrong. 

 

Sousa defended his arch nemesis twice in essentially the same scene.  That's not something one sees everyday.

 

I think it's good that they showed Peggy being a flawed character. It makes her human and relatable. That was a great scene.

[Julia]

No, he wasn't wrong, but I don't think he was sincere either. I haven't seen anything from Thompson that makes me believe that he would be fastidious about the suspects' rights if he was interested in catching them. That's certainly not the way the FBI, who are apparently holding his leash, operated back then.

[Bruinsfan]

I wonder who took over directing Stark's movie while he is in Peru?

Probably whoever handled those duties while he's on set but busy wooing starlets and the Hair & Makeup and Wardrobe departments of the studio.

[stealinghome]

No, he wasn't wrong, but I don't think he was sincere either. I haven't seen anything from Thompson that makes me believe that he would be fastidious about the suspects' rights if he was interested in catching them. That's certainly not the way the FBI, who are apparently holding his leash, operated back then.

Given that Thompson clearly doesn't care that innocent people are being framed, I'm going to agree that he doesn't actually care about anyone's rights.

[Sakura12]

Peggy didn't flat out say his secret, just that he's used to getting rewarded for not doing anything.  Sousa's probably curious about what she meant and knew it was a huge insult but he still doesn't know what Jack did in Japan. 

[Emily Thrace]

I was watching X Company (another show about female spy in the 40s. Except this one is Jewish French Canadian and its set during the war in France. Its actually really good if anyone wants to check it out its on CBC.ca)  this week and I realized the issue I'm having with the show this year. Its  more about tone than anything else. Last year we had humor but also the darkness of Peggy's struggle to be recognized and Howard's arrest. This year the show doesn't seem to be taking itself so seriously which would be fine if they hadn't also introduced a race subplot in the form of Dr. Wilkes. So when the show tries to address the racial issues of the period and take it seriously it doesn't come of effectively. It feel obvious and patronizing instead of organic. It was better this episode mostly because it was Howard who never takes anything seriously delivering the quips but it will be interesting to see how well it works going forward.

 

I also like Thompson better than Sousa as a love interest for Peggy. Mainly because she and Thompson challenge each other in an interesting way. Sousa is sweet but dull and he seems somewhat intimidated by Peggy at times. Although I'm not sure Peggy is ready to meet Mr. Right just yet. I think she needs a rebound guy and to get S.H.E.I.L.D . up and running before she really settles down.

[kili]

Given that Thompson clearly doesn't care that innocent people are being framed, I'm going to agree that he doesn't actually care about anyone's rights.

 

Last year, Thompson was one of the few characters who was willing to give Peggy a chance to explain herself when she looked like a foreign spy.

 

It's easy from our 20/20 vision to see that Wilkes was framed. We met him, saw Frost plan the framing and know he is still alive. From Thompson's perspective, Wilkes is just some guilty looking dead guy. Peggy doesn't believe that he is a Russian spy, but Thompson also has to remember that she befriended and lived next door to a lethal Russian spy (who was involved in killing a couple of SSR agents) and she didn't notice until the woman revealed herself. Peggy wants to break laws and violate the constitution to clear a dead person and Thompson just wants a little solid evidence first.

 

We knew Thompson was in the wrong from the start and his also a jerk. But, he doesn't know everything we know. Plus, he appears to be playing a long con on Red so as he has seen more evidence, he has come on board.

 

I'm fine with Peggy and Thompson being at odds. Their scenes crackle. Atwell makes every other character better.

[anna0852]

Last year, Thompson was one of the few characters who was willing to give Peggy a chance to explain herself when she looked like a foreign spy.

 

It's easy from our 20/20 vision to see that Wilkes was framed. We met him, saw Frost plan the framing and know he is still alive. From Thompson's perspective, Wilkes is just some guilty looking dead guy. Peggy doesn't believe that he is a Russian spy, but Thompson also has to remember that she befriended and lived next door to a lethal Russian spy (who was involved in killing a couple of SSR agents) and she didn't notice until the woman revealed herself. Peggy wants to break laws and violate the constitution to clear a dead person and Thompson just wants a little solid evidence first.

 

We knew Thompson was in the wrong from the start and his also a jerk. But, he doesn't know everything we know. Plus, he appears to be playing a long con on Red so as he has seen more evidence, he has come on board.

 

I'm fine with Peggy and Thompson being at odds. Their scenes crackle. Atwell makes every other character better.

All this!

 

Thompson wasn't the only person doubting Peggy when she said Wilkes wasn't a spy. And we need to remember the mentality of the country at this time as well. 1947 means that Soviets/commies are the menace in all the shadows. About the worst accusation a person could face was that they were a communist. The Rosenberg trial and the McCarthy hearings and the Hollywood Blacklist haven't even happened yet. Which means we haven't seen the worst yet either. The FBI is consolidating their power and will be a driving force behind investigations and hearings. Google J Edgar Hoover if you really want to be creeped out.

 

That Thompson didn't immediately jump on the 'he's innocent' bandwagon is very true to the time and the character. While we know that Peggy is awesome and nearly always right, Thompson doesn't yet.  

Edited February 1, 2016 by anna0852

[rab01]

It's probably too simplistic, but I confess for a moment I thought Thompson might have switched out the film before handing over the canister to FBI Red.

I'm pretty sure Thompson made a copy before turning over the tape.  Why wouldn't he? Even if he joins whatever conspiracy that's been trying to recruit him, a copy of the tape is insurance.

 

I guess I'm in the minority in that I don't think Carter's insult of Thompson was counterproductive - she wasn't going to get anything from him anyway. He didn't doubt her story; he wasn't there to be convinced; he already knew that there was more to the story because he flew across country at the orders of the conspiracy to clean up the mess that had been made. The Director of SSR in New York doesn't horn in on the turf of the West Coast Director just for funsies. If he was an honest agent, he would have just stayed in New York so he could second guess them and make sure that Sousa and Carter took the fall for whatever havoc they wreaked.

 

Thompson stole the lion's share of the credit from season 1, turfed her to LA in this season, and was ordering her to falsify a report. He's got no right to expect her to keep his secrets for him.  Also, his normal interest in suspects' civil rights is whether his interrogation beatings leave visible scars or not. His concern with bugging a rich person's office, is the "rich person" part, not the "bugging" part.

 

All that said, Thompson hasn't yet crossed the line from venal into evil so I have no idea which way he's gonna jump by the end of the series, which makes his character pretty interesting to watch.

Edited February 1, 2016 by rab01

[kili]

was ordering her to falsify a report.

 

He did no such thing. She had left out the part where Wilkes was a Russian spy because she didn't believe the evidence. From his perspective, he corrected the report. He may also have knowingly been trying to keep her theories off the radar. He knows that Red is already suspicious of the LA office. If he lets them file that report as she wrote it, those suspicions will be confirmed.

 

It may be that Thompson is a 2-dimensional idiotic weasel, but I'm hoping for a 3-D clever weasel. This show is smart and I love it when characters all smart in their own flawed ways. I think we saw hints of that last year when Sousa and Thompson were actually doing a good job despite not having all the intel that Peggy had (and their incorrect original hypothesis). Peggy is such a great agent, we don't need to make the other agents look unqualified to show that.  Sousa figuring out that she had gone rogue in season 1 was good detective work and Peggy didn't need to be an idiot to get caught.

 

Also, his normal interest in suspects' civil rights is whether his interrogation beatings leave visible scars or not.

 

I'm under the impression that those kind of interrogation techniques were sadly quite common in that era. Dooley certainly seemed to be teaching his agents that it was acceptable procedure.

 

His concern with bugging a rich person's office, is the "rich person" part, not the "bugging" part.

 

Well, favouring the rich and powerful is definitely one of his flaws, he and Sousa do seem to be a bit more by the book. They weren't war-time operatives like Peggy, so they probably aren't used to playing quite so loose with the constitution as she is.

[Julia]

He did no such thing. She had left out the part where Wilkes was a Russian spy because she didn't believe the evidence. From his perspective, he corrected the report.

He ordered her to sign a legal document which did not reflect the facts as she observed them, then when she refused to sign it he forged her signature.

He did that after her was offered personal advancement for bringing around the outcome his 'mentor' wanted.

Whatever his presumed motivation is, he broke the law and should have lost his job and possibly gone to jail for it. At this point, he's a crook and a bad cop.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Julia

[stealinghome]

He ordered her to sign a legal document which did not reflect the facts as she observed them, then when she refused to sign it he forged her signature.

He did that after her was offered personal advancement for bringing around the outcome his 'mentor' wanted.

Whatever his presumed motivation is, he broke the law and should have lost his job and possibly gone to jail for it. At this point, he's a crook and a bad cop.

Seriously. If Thompson was just "correcting" the report, I want to "correct" my next paycheck to give me three times what I currently make, because I've just decided that I deserve more.

[rab01]

He did no such thing. She had left out the part where Wilkes was a Russian spy because she didn't believe the evidence. From his perspective, he corrected the report. He may also have knowingly been trying to keep her theories off the radar. He knows that Red is already suspicious of the LA office. If he lets them file that report as she wrote it, those suspicions will be confirmed.

 

It may be that Thompson is a 2-dimensional idiotic weasel, but I'm hoping for a 3-D clever weasel. This show is smart and I love it when characters all smart in their own flawed ways. I think we saw hints of that last year when Sousa and Thompson were actually doing a good job despite not having all the intel that Peggy had (and their incorrect original hypothesis). Peggy is such a great agent, we don't need to make the other agents look unqualified to show that.  Sousa figuring out that she had gone rogue in season 1 was good detective work and Peggy didn't need to be an idiot to get caught.

 

 

I'm under the impression that those kind of interrogation techniques were sadly quite common in that era. Dooley certainly seemed to be teaching his agents that it was acceptable procedure.

 

 

Well, favouring the rich and powerful is definitely one of his flaws, he and Sousa do seem to be a bit more by the book. They weren't war-time operatives like Peggy, so they probably aren't used to playing quite so loose with the constitution as she is.

My view of his character is the one giving him more credit for brains, not yours -- I'm saying that he knows what the truth is but is ordering Carter to stop for his own reasons. Whether he thinks the guy dangling the FBI job is representing the government's real interests (Thompson as patriot), or powerful enough to do him favors (Thompson as opportunist), or powerful enough to quash the investigation if the SSR doesn't play along (Thompson as secret double agent) -- all of those assume him to be much too smart to believe the fake commie set-up at face value.

 

Sure, beating suspects was pretty common back then -- but so were warrantless listening devices ;)  (Well, actually they're pretty common now too unless you count a FISA court as being anything other than a rubber stamp.)  We've seen no sign that Thompson is a by-the-book agent so I don't think there's any reason to retcon that onto him now.  He and Carter are at odds because they want different things and each is an obstacle to the other. That's good enough for me. If you want to add another layer, Thompson is probably at odds with both Sousa and Carter because he knows that they did heroic things during the war and lost things important to them while he got a medal he didn't deserve. I feel for him - it's got to eat at the character's self-confidence forever to be constantly rewarded and praised for something that he should never have done ...

[kili]

He ordered her to sign a legal document which did not reflect the facts as she observed them, then when she refused to sign it he forged her signature.

 

We can disagree on whether he was falsifying or correcting a report, but I'm pretty sure he did not forge her signature. I got the impression that when she said she wouldn't sign, he said he would sign because he was her boss (as he was up the chain of command, either of their signatures would be sufficient). I've seen no indication that Thompson can forge anybody's signature and bosses signing for subordinates just makes more sense to me.

 

If you want to add another layer, Thompson is probably at odds with both Sousa and Carter because he knows that they did heroic things during the war and lost things important to them while he got a medal he didn't deserve

 

I completely believe that motive is in play. That's why I think he's going to do something reckless this year to try to actually earn the credit he's been given. He's ambitious, but he's also consumed by guilt (and clearly attracted to Peggy - can't fault his taste).

 

But enough about him...I was kind of shocked when Stark sprayed that chemical soup into Wilke's mouth. Clearly, the guy tasted it. That stuff can't be good for you. Still, I suppose if you have been transformed into the frequency domain, you've probably got other things to worry about.

 

Convenient that Frost's Zero Matter scar is following her hairline. Did she have to switch the side on which she parted her hair to do that or was she doubly lucky?

 

[rab01]

As the "scar" grows (it does get a little bigger each time she uses the power, right?), she'll have to switch to a full-on Veronica Lake peekaboo ;)

[snarktini]

IIRC, the part to me that was overt falsification was him changing instances in her story of "Wilkes" to "the commie". As in "I saw the commie go into the building" or something like that. Wilkes being suspected and having evidence found in his home should be in the report, color commentary prior to an actual conviction shouldn't be. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by snarktini

[innocuouspuff]

As a supposed dead person Wilkes wasn't that likely to be tried. Thompson didn't get what the big deal was, didn't have our vantage point of knowing Wilkes is awesome, and if he didn't want to file a report about his agent running around town with a suspected communist that seems reasonable to me given the time? McCarthyism was about to ruin people's lives. All agents doing exactly as Peggy says regardless of whether they outrank her seems boring. We know she's the star but they don't, and having their own motivations makes for better storytelling imo.

So I actually kind of love that Thompson has his own rationales, they may not be heroic but not everyone is a Captain America-style hero. And am surprised at the worry over Thompson breaking the rules, when we love Peggy for being the ultimate ends justifies means heroine.

[Julia]

As a supposed dead person Wilkes wasn't that likely to be tried. Thompson didn't get what the big deal was, didn't have our vantage point of knowing Wilkes is awesome, and if he didn't want to file a report about his agent running around town with a suspected communist that seems reasonable to me given the time? McCarthyism was about to ruin people's lives. All agents doing exactly as Peggy says regardless of whether they outrank her seems boring. We know she's the star but they don't, and having their own motivations makes for better storytelling imo.

So I actually kind of love that Thompson has his own rationales, they may not be heroic but not everyone is a Captain America-style hero. And am surprised at the worry over Thompson breaking the rules, when we love Peggy for being the ultimate ends justifies means heroine.

I think even back then, a federal agent not forging evidence to frame a suspect on behalf of his chances for promotion would not have risen to the level of heroism, even if it meant not getting furthur unearned professional advancement. Especially since framing an innocent man lets the guilty party go free. Obviously, this assumes that America in the world Agent Carter takes place in had laws and a constitution and was interested in getting criminals off the streets.

Mileage, obviously, varies.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Julia

[innocuouspuff]

Hmmn, I don't think he forged evidence? He just took the evidence forged by others at face value. Which is no, not heroic, but it's not terrible either. He's not as brave as Peggy is. That's been established. I just think there's a lot of grey area between not the bravely charging star hero and evil personified, and I am happy for Thompson to hang out there. This year the show has multiple supervillains that are more worthy of hatred, for me.

[Julia]

I just think there's a lot of grey area between not the bravely charging star hero and evil personified

Just as there's a large area between personification of evil and bad cop, or for that matter between bad cop and not a hero. The world is funny that way :)

[innocuouspuff]

Yes, of course. It was rhetorical contrast. :) Which the show loves so that's how we ended up with Thompson in the first place. Lots of different kinds of agents and more interesting than having multiple copies of Peggy, imo.