S06.E07: Pretty Mess

[talula]

Behind the scenes photo from this episode:

[AnnaMayWong]

Your post got me to thinking about society.

Just pondering...

A lot of mothers back in the day went to college looking for good prospects to get their Mrs. degree... a more genteel way of gold digging I guess. Why didn't they just marry their high school sweetheart jock back at home now pumping gas?

Would Erica still be called a "gold digger" if she married an older Mr. Gerardi (sp?) who ran a small modest business who then grew it into something much, much bigger or came into a windfall after they were married? Don't think so.

What is the cut off point for age or and money before one reaches gold digger territory?

Is Kate a gold digger for marrying Prince William?

Should we call women "gutter lickers" when they settle for and marry problem men or unsuccessful men?

Why is it looked down upon for a woman to marry for money and security if her intended is marrying for companionship in old age, or has a thing for sweet young sexy things, or has a fondness for a person who treats him with kindness? If both are aware going into the marriage aware of what the other brings and what the other wants why do we have to put the labels of gold digger/dirty old man on the relationship?

Just pondering

Very ably put.

[urusai]

 

Erika: "Is she being a bitch or is she just being......(looks off to the side; long pause for effect)... jealous?"    After B essentially calls her a hooker: paraphrasing "Sure I'll represent for the hookers. They need love too."   Thank you for the breath in my lungs honey, because you just gave me life. With these statements Erika swerved that petty naysayer that come at her. She remained unbothered, while Bethanny sat there panini pressed!

 

 

I loved Erika saying "I'm not selling cookies, (hair flip) no offense to anyone who is."  LOL  Suck it, B.  

Edited January 14, 2016 by urusai

[talula]

The whole LVP Eileen dynamic has taken on some interesting twists.  First off I do not buy that Lisa did not know Eileen had been married twice before-it was part of her introduction.  Say LVP forgot-what does it have to do with her having an affair?  Eileen, albeit meekly did try and derail the LVP interrogation train-she said, "I am being grilled by Lisa."  Lisar looked horribly uncomfortable and Kyle tried to quash it but LVP kept chugging along.  LVP may feel she is transparent but we did not learn of Ken's first marriage, child and grandson until Season 3-so she wasn't all that transparent.  LVP will always be the fan favorite because she embodies so much of what viewers want to see, beauty, conspicuously wealth, even wealthier friends, married with children, animal lover and at the same time snarky and a it catty but mostly a scorekeeper and grudge holder..  In short everything Camille wanted to be Season 1 and face planted instead. 

 

LVP is now claiming since the issue had been discussed she didn't think it would bother Eileen.  Well that doesn't make sense and she has used unsuccessfully in defending her stance with both Kyle and the Mauricio rumors and exposing Brandi and Scheana to each other on camera. If a person takes a strong stance about the mention of a subject then it what world would it be okay to bring it up?  Had Lisa listened, Eileen made it very clear the topic was hurtful to Vince's ex-wife and their children. Kyle may have forgiven her but Brandi never did and of course was vile and over the top in confronting Lisa.

 

I think Eileen feels like she is not a person who would have set out to fall in love with a married man.  From her account she left her marriage when she realized she had feelings for someone else and before she consummated the relationship.  Vince however, apparently did not officially separate-we will never know what the status was between he and Betsy because they have elected to keep it private.

 

Eileen hurt feelings aren't just one dimensional-it wasn't just bringing the topic up again, it was she thought LVP a friend.  Which leaves LVP in the position to deny they were close or have to have a "I totally f'ed up and I hope Eileen can forgive me."  There just can't be any wiggle room but of course there will be because the producers need to stretch it for about ten more episodes.

 

I don't see this as a blonde vs. brunettes battle as I think Lisar sympathizes with Eileen. 

 

Sadly BH seems to want to revolve around ancient history-here comes the OJ shit again.  Let's bring in Faye Resnick to make the circle complete.

Excellent post ZM and you hit the nail on the head about LVP. Without anyone to use as her tool she is forced to be the on screen heavy herself.

[zoeysmom]

See this is where I agreed with Brandi last season. Look I understand falling in and out of love but I don't respect the need to downplay or justify certain pain that was inflicted when the affair began. I mean it's in the past and all that but when you decide to engage in something that's hurtful don't try to sugar coat it or hide behind that whole "our son" angle. He had children with his wife also and they weren't a concern. Not saying that her son shouldn't be a consideration or anything but acknowledging that her marriage started off on a very negative track doesn't mean people are disrespecting her son. SHE'S the one that chose to start a family with this man under those conditions. People reflecting on her circumstances aren't to blame for any shame she feels is bestowed upon her, her husband or her son. I think it's fucked up when people try to spin things like that in order to side step the side eye. She should forever expect to be received with a certain amount of side eye and she should be prepared to either own it or firmly change the subject whatever but never is it okay for her to try to explain it away as something that didn't create pain in it's conception. I don't fault her for being happy with her resulting life and family I just can't stand it when she tries to defend the initial relationship.

 

Brad and Angelina never really go into their beginnings and usually steer clear of discussing how it all REALLY began. They don't dance around it but they just make it a point not to have some revisionist account of it or even discuss or elaborate on it for that matter. Just saying.

To me the major difference between Vince and Eileen and say Eddie and LeAnn, is there is not spouse crying the blues or screaming about the injustice.  The circumstances of Vince and Eileen's coupling has zero impact on LVP, Brandi or any of the other RH.  So to try and create discord or put someone down for what they did 16 years ago is really a bit strange.  Had Betsy been crying the blues and publicly begging to keep Vince in the family that is one thing.  I applaud Betsy-if someone doesn't love me I don't want them in the marriage for the sake of the children.  It is a sad thing but people fall out of love all the time.  It may be a simple premise but why do people want to talk about a long ago busted up marriage?  So to merely poke around publicly and try and get the dirty details serves no purpose.  Eileen has never said anything negative about Betsy nor has Vince.  When one pokes it is as if they are discounting the relationship.  I do believe Lisa was probably try to draw something fiery and romantic out of their relationship and not necessarily the sordid side.  She used a poor choice of words to get the response.

 

I don't know if Eileen is defending the initial relationship-I just think she doesn't want to talk about it.  To me, that to some degree acknowledges the genesis of their courtship was messy. It is not as if Eileen told some cornball story omitting the fact he was married and she left her marriage because she felt an attraction to someone else.  This is speculation on my part, when Brandi and/or Yolanda brought up Eileen's marriage I think Brandi was expecting Eileen to gloss over the circumstances.  Brandi was ready to pounce-because Eddie's best friend, Joshua Morrow, is on the Young and the Restless.  So it seems Brandi, by her subsequent actions that day was disappointed Eileen was forthcoming.  I think Brandi was hoping to have a storyline around Eileen not being forthcoming.  Her behavior at their home was certainly indicative of someone who wanted to start something.  In the case of Brandi she is entitled to go through life hating and shunning any and everyone who she feels "cheated".  It leads me to wonder if perhaps LVP, is maybe intolerant of adulterous couples as well-her right, but she can't be intolerant and expect a friendship.  LVP was very cocky with her, "I got it right the first time."  Something that only applies to her and Lisar, and both of their husbands had been married before.  So it gives the appearance she is somehow superior.

 

Eileen never wanted to put it out there how she and Vince coupled.  Nor did she dance.  I think she just wants to stop talking about it. 

[Rainny]

Not in my world. Sounds like she's waiting for the old guy to croak.

So did Aaron Spelling (2) and his wife got it all. Erika certainly knows she's would do better to be widowed then divorce a high powered attorney. She's cheesy, but not dumb.

 

True, but the difference there is that Aaron Spelling's children are also his wife's children. In that case she would get it all and then the children get it after she passes. In Erika's case, her husband will most probably provide for his grown children separately in his will because they are not Erika's children. 

[DrSparkles]

Yes, sorry! Someone else had said 'almost 60' & I just repeated it w/o fact-checking!! Hell naws, 56 isn't almost 60, nor is 58 IMO. Only when you are 2 months short of your next b'day are you 'almost xx' IMO!  :) 

[LIMOM]

Make no mistake, I believe he's a willing participant. It's not unheard of that a wealthy older man might want to buy himself a hot young wife. However, that doesn't change my opinion of Erika. I wouldn't care if she didn't sign up for RHOBH, but she did, so I get to say what I think. Thanks, Andy!!

Of course, you get to say what you think!

And I think I get to say what I think too!.lol

[DrSparkles]

This is the best post ever to be posted anywhere ever. Standing O Giselle!

Agreed!!! Bravo Giselle!!!

[thewhiteowl]

LisaV wasn't letting out a secret, everyone knows Eileen and Vince were cheaters. People are going to judge that, it's what people do, Pretending it wasn't so isn't going to fly. Might as well get your side out there and Eileen has been pretty capable and articulate in the past so I don't buy the victim act. Personally I love it when cheaters get their faces cracked. She came on the show, she can't be that naïve. A little late to worry abut her child. IMO

David is a dick but he was Yo's choice and I don't believe any of his behavior is a big surprise to her. It's not to me and I wasn't married to him. She gets no sympathy and I have to admit I'm fed up with Yo's pity party and I only watch it on the show. I can't even imagine how tired of it David must be. I can't believe I feel sorry for that dick. Thanks for that, WoeYo.

[Umbelina]

Did I miss the part where ANYONE asked for Bethenny's advice regarding Erika's career?  This woman is seriously delusional if she thinks that her criticism would be useful or welcome.  I agree that someone like Sonja could use her help but Erika seems to be doing just fine, thank you very much.  It was nice that a couple of the ladies spoke up and defended/complimented her.  Bethenny is one miserable person and it's so clear that she needs to find a way to feel superior to every person she meets.  She's simply toxic and I hated seeing her and that godawful short outfit. 

 

 

BRAVO asked Bethenny in to stir things up, probably specifically with Erika.  They are trying to get something they consider usable to air from their new hire.  They hired the gold-digger, sex-show vixen and they ended up with Miss Manners. 

 

Ditto LVP.  In LVP's case, I feel like BRAVO wants to get their moneys worth from Eileen, 3/4 of a million dollars for a summer job, and it's not to watch her craft an image of sweetness and light.

 

I just can't blame LVP or Bethenny for doing the job they are hired to do, playing ball with producers.  This is all a business.  BRAVO gives them money, and the cast is supposed to give them ratings (money) in return.  They know what these shows do, and it's not all pretend fabulousness.  It's also not the place for anyone with secrets or pretending a perfection that doesn't exist.  You take the money?  It comes with risks, the biggest one?  Exposure.  That's why it's called REAL housewives.  If the show and cast members don't out/catch you?  The blogs and people on message boards will.  These are all middle-aged women, they should know the score by now.  No pity, none.

 

My personal guess is that the cameras and producers are seeing a bunch of tears in Eileen's marriage, and they will probably begin to really rip soon.  The gambling losses and addiction story that came out yesterday is the tip of an iceberg.  The bickering and name calling we've already seen was done with cameras in Vince and Eileen's faces, so if anyone honestly believes they are nicer and more loving to one another OFF camera, there is a lovely orange bridge for sale.  Add Eileen's rather OTT reaction to Erika Jayne's stripper moves and a picture is beginning to emerge of a woman who has stuff to hide.  (I don't think she's the lady pond type, if anything, my guess would be that her interest was more about perhaps spicing up her sex life with Vince, if they even have one anymore.)

 

It smells like trouble in that marriage, so BRAVO wanted LVP to start picking at the Invisibility Cloak's threads. 

 

We shall see.

 

Anyway, my main point is that Bethenny (and her mother spelled her name that way, so blame her) and LVP are simply doing their job.  It's what they signed up for.  They aren't the only ones that do it for BRAVO, most long term housewives know the score by now.  THIS episode though?  That is exactly what they were doing.

[shoegal]

True, but the difference there is that Aaron Spelling's children are also his wife's children. In that case she would get it all and then the children get it after she passes. In Erika's case, her husband will most probably provide for his grown children separately in his will because they are not Erika's children. 

Right, but I do believe Spelling did provide for his grown kids in his will, with no stipulation that they got they $ after Candi died.  Maybe Girardi will go Warren Buffet and his kids get nothing, maybe he has already given them their inheritance, or maybe Erika will end up in court fighting a'la Anna Nicole and J. Howard Marshall, Jr.....what I do think is that Erika knows it's in her best financial interest to stay married to Tom Girardi until his death, which benefits her by putting her on better legal standing and she gets to enjoy all of the wealth while they are still married.  It doesn't seem like he cramps her style in any way, so I can see why she wouldn't want to risk anything in a divorce.

 

I found the juxtaposition of Erika and Bethenny to be interesting in this episode, because while Kyle and Bethenny were catching up and admiring B's Hampton's home, I was marveling at the thought that Bethenny paid for all of that with her own damn money, and I was thinking how refreshing that is to see....a woman who didn't marry a sugar daddy but instead, hussled her ass off and got it on her own (yes, I know, she had a wealthy absentee father and went to fancy boarding schools).  Bethenny has her flaws, for sure, but I respect her.  I guess at the end of the day, I don't have any respect for Erika. 

[Rosebud1970]

Lisa R. Is a hypocrite. She posed twice for Playboy and has the nerve to act all Puritan about Erika's video.

And shut up Bethenny. What does she know about music or videos or anything else except being a pain in the ass. Speaking of which, I thought it was funny when she squatted down and ripped those ugly shorts she was wearing.

Eileen is being too sensitive. If she didn't wanted to talk about how she met her husband she should have said right away 'I don't want to talk about this, drop it!' Which is what Lisa V. Basically told her and apologized but E. Was still whining about it.

I loves me some LVP, but she did not apologize. I didn't get Eileen's whole position on this convo. She's a strong woman. Why didn't she just tell LVP that the conversation was making her uncomfortable and let's just discuss something else?

 

But no.

 

Instead, she goes back the next day for more. And true to her rep, LVP doesn't apologize and turns everything around and makes Eileen feel even worse.

[zoeysmom]

Umbelina-I can't find a story about citing Vince has a gambling losses and addiction that came out yesterday or any other day.  Could you provide a link?  Thanks.

 

I may alone here but I don't find Eileen and Vince interaction all that rare or even biting.  I think they have their level of teasing similar to LVP and the no sex except birthdays and holidays.  She started the conversation with, "shut up," so I think the tenor of the conversation was pointed out each other's preferences for spending disposable income.  It is not as if they were filming in a house without electricity or their cars were repossessed.  Vince gambles it is not a secret, he earns a living off covering gambling events.

[Umbelina]

Zoey it's here and in Eileen's thread as well.  It's probably easier to find in Eileen's, it's the only link to anything about her posted yesterday.

 

ETA, looked it up, here it is.

 

http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2016/01/11/blind-item-his-costly-addiction-is-out-of-control/ (that site doesn't allow any copy/paste)

I may alone here but I don't find Eileen and Vince interaction all that rare or even biting.  I think they have their level of teasing similar to LVP and the no sex except birthdays and holidays.  She started the conversation with, "shut up," so I think the tenor of the conversation was pointed out each other's preferences for spending disposable income.

 

Oh and all I can think of is, "yeah, that's what everyone said about Adrienne and Paul."  I spotted that one very early on too.  I'm not sure if the clues for me were in the editing or the eyes...ha.

 

You are certainly not alone, and I could certainly be wrong.  If Vince inherits a fortune though, I wonder if that will help their marriage?  Or hurt it?  We shall see.  If she stays on this show, sooner or later, it will play out.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Umbelina

[WireWrap]

I loves me some LVP, but she did not apologize. I didn't get Eileen's whole position on this convo. She's a strong woman. Why didn't she just tell LVP that the conversation was making her uncomfortable and let's just discuss something else?

 

But no.

 

Instead, she goes back the next day for more. And true to her rep, LVP doesn't apologize and turns everything around and makes Eileen feel even worse.

Lisa said to Eileen in their 1 on 1 at the house, "I apologize". Now, whether or not anyone felt it was genuine or not is up them to decide, but she did say it.

Umbelina-I can't find a story about citing Vince has a gambling losses and addiction that came out yesterday or any other day.  Could you provide a link?  Thanks.

 

I may alone here but I don't find Eileen and Vince interaction all that rare or even biting.  I think they have their level of teasing similar to LVP and the no sex except birthdays and holidays.  She started the conversation with, "shut up," so I think the tenor of the conversation was pointed out each other's preferences for spending disposable income.  It is not as if they were filming in a house without electricity or their cars were repossessed.  Vince gambles it is not a secret, he earns a living off covering gambling events.

 

It is 1 of those "blind gossip" stories but it is clear it is about Eileen/Vince. Here is the link  http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2016/01/11/blind-item-his-costly-addiction-is-out-of-control/

Edited January 14, 2016 by WireWrap

[MaggieG]

So not only did Farrah from Teen Mom og try to crash the Bella party, but the Mob Wives on VH1 went to the same winery as the BH ladies (can't remember the name now, duck face maybe?) Very interesting crossover of shows. Although the Mob Wives didn't exactly keep it classy

So far, I like Erika.

[motorcitymom65]

 

 

I just can't blame LVP or Bethenny for doing the job they are hired to do, playing ball with producers.  This is all a business.  BRAVO gives them money, and the cast is supposed to give them ratings (money) in return.  They know what these shows do, and it's not all pretend fabulousness.  It's also not the place for anyone with secrets or pretending a perfection that doesn't exist.  You take the money?  It comes with risks, the biggest one?  Exposure.  That's why it's called REAL housewives.  If the show and cast members don't out/catch you?  The blogs and people on message boards will.  These are all middle-aged women, they should know the score by now.  No pity, none.

 

 

I agree with the pity part.  I don't have any pity in most situations when folks have to answer to the truth of what is going on in their lives. They are on a reality show FFS.  On the other hand, that doesn't mean that I don't understand why someone would be irritated by another HW talking about stuff on camera they don't want discussed. Should they expect it to happen? Of course, especially with people they don't like. Does that mean they can't be mad at the person for talking about it? I keep hearing folks talking about secrets. I don't think any of it has to do with secrets. It has to do with not wanting to talk about certain things on camera. 

 

I can only imagine if the other women would have talked about Cedric and the allegations he was very publicly making against Lisa V and Ken. They were ugly. Can you imagine if one of them had tried to get this stuff on camera? Regardless of whether or not the allegations were true, it was all over the media. It was real and it was happening to them. Just picture Kyle talking to Mauricio in a scene and saying something like "can you believe that Cedric is saying that Ken use to hire hookers? That Lisa has had several affairs and that their marriage is basically a sham? That he has rental receipts to prove that he was actually living on his own and that Ken and Lisa asked him to move in with them to portray a certain image?" Kyle could have acted shocked by the rumors, but made sure to get them on camera for anyone who hadn't heard the stories. Maybe Mauricio would have defended Ken and said he would never do something like hire hookers. Maybe Kyle would have said "you never really know, do you"?  What if any of the HW's would have asked Ken and Lisa V outright what they thought about being accused of such things, and made sure to be specific about the things that they were accused of? It was never a secret, but I am 100% certain that Ken and Lisa didn't want anyone going into the details of what they were going through with Cedric. 

[This2getsold]

Your post got me to thinking about society.

 

Just pondering...

 

A lot of mothers back in the day went to college looking for good prospects to get their Mrs. degree... a more genteel way of gold digging I guess. Why didn't they just marry their  high school sweetheart jock back at home now pumping gas?

 

Would Erica still be called a "gold digger" if she married an older Mr. Gerardi (sp?) who ran a small modest business who then grew it into something much, much bigger or came into a windfall after they were married? Don't think so.

 

What is the cut off point for age or and money before one reaches gold digger territory?

 

Is Kate a gold digger for marrying Prince William?

 

Should we call women "gutter lickers" when they settle for and marry problem men or unsuccessful men?

 

Why is it looked down upon for a woman to marry for money and security if her intended is  marrying for companionship in old age, or has a thing for sweet young sexy things, or has a fondness for a person who treats him with kindness? If both are aware going into the marriage aware of what the other brings and what the other wants why do we have to put the labels of gold digger/dirty old man on the relationship?

 

Just pondering

 

Love this! Have wondered the same things myself.

 

IF 2 people are happy, why should I care. LABELS. This is one that doesn't flatter either party. Makes the men look like a loser, like they have nothing to offer but money. Never mind how it hurts women.  

I have friends who married young and said they were attracted to their hubs cause they knew these men would be successful. So are theses women golf diggers in fetal form? Or pre-gold diggers?

 

How long do you have to be married to work your way out of being classified a gold digger? Maybe you have to prove yourself and hang through an illness? I would think 15 years would qualify you to pass out of the gold digger stage? 

 

Frankly, I have not heard anyone even whisper the gold digger word in 25 plus years. Mostly heard this word thrown around by men who didn't have financial success. And were looking for some reason why they weren't having luck dating. Never mind they were long overdue for a personality shot. 

Edited January 14, 2016 by This2getsold

[zoeysmom]

Lisa said to Eileen in their 1 on 1 at the house, "I apologize". Now, whether or not anyone felt it was genuine or not is up them to decide, but she did say it.

 

It is 1 of those "blind gossip" stories but it is clear it is about Eileen/Vince. Here is the link  http://www.allaboutthetea.com/2016/01/11/blind-item-his-costly-addiction-is-out-of-control/

Lisa did say she apologized.  And I agree with Lisa by the time Eileen addressed Lisa and the way she addressed Lisa's comments, it would be pretty hard to gauge how serious her hurt is/was.

 

Oh I saw that-it is not a story.  It is just some one making a guess.  If there were gambling losses people within that community would be commenting on them and not just some comment on a blog from a poster.  One thing most gamblers learn early on is you have to cover your bets.  Vince is second generation so I am thinking he is almost sixty and has not seemed to suffer from gambling.  Eileen says their marriage is good and they seem to be devoted to each other.  I will say I prefer the Van Pattens' relationship to Yolanda and David and all the love, love, king stuff.  I guess we saw the real side of David with the tits comment.  No wonder he doesn't write song lyrics.

[WireWrap]

I agree with the pity part.  I don't have any pity in most situations when folks have to answer to the truth of what is going on in their lives. They are on a reality show FFS.  On the other hand, that doesn't mean that I don't understand why someone would be irritated by another HW talking about stuff on camera they don't want discussed. Should they expect it to happen? Of course, especially with people they don't like. Does that mean they can't be mad at the person for talking about it? I keep hearing folks talking about secrets. I don't think any of it has to do with secrets. It has to do with not wanting to talk about certain things on camera. 

 

I can only imagine if the other women would have talked about Cedric and the allegations he was very publicly making against Lisa V and Ken. They were ugly. Can you imagine if one of them had tried to get this stuff on camera? Regardless of whether or not the allegations were true, it was all over the media. It was real and it was happening to them. Just picture Kyle talking to Mauricio in a scene and saying something like "can you believe that Cedric is saying that Ken use to hire hookers? That Lisa has had several affairs and that their marriage is basically a sham? That he has rental receipts to prove that he was actually living on his own and that Ken and Lisa asked him to move in with them to portray a certain image?" Kyle could have acted shocked by the rumors, but made sure to get them on camera for anyone who hadn't heard the stories. Maybe Mauricio would have defended Ken and said he would never do something like hire hookers. Maybe Kyle would have said "you never really know, do you"?  What if any of the HW's would have asked Ken and Lisa V outright what they thought about being accused of such things, and made sure to be specific about the things that they were accused of? It was never a secret, but I am 100% certain that Ken and Lisa didn't want anyone going into the details of what they were going through with Cedric. 

Except that someone HAS brought up some of Cedric's allegations on the show, ON camera and that was Brandi. LisaV just "poo poo'ed" away these comments, first saying they were not true, to consider the source and then ignoring them. They were never discussed again BECAUSE she refused to react to them. This IS where Lisa is very different from the rest, she refuses to react or OVER react like the rest do and because of that, everyone moves on to the next thing/fight. It seems, at least so far, Erika is the same way, address it head on, laugh it off and leave it by the side of the road where it belongs as you drive away. LOL

Lisa did say she apologized.  And I agree with Lisa by the time Eileen addressed Lisa and the way she addressed Lisa's comments, it would be pretty hard to gauge how serious her hurt is/was.

 

Oh I saw that-it is not a story.  It is just some one making a guess.  If there were gambling losses people within that community would be commenting on them and not just some comment on a blog from a poster.  One thing most gamblers learn early on is you have to cover your bets.  Vince is second generation so I am thinking he is almost sixty and has not seemed to suffer from gambling.  Eileen says their marriage is good and they seem to be devoted to each other.  I will say I prefer the Van Pattens' relationship to Yolanda and David and all the love, love, king stuff.  I guess we saw the real side of David with the tits comment.  No wonder he doesn't write song lyrics.

 

I think Eileen/Vince hit a speed bump, like all married couples do, and it is showing this season. It could be that he is more "touchy/jumpy/edgy" due to the loss of his father, grief can affect people in odd/different ways, so I don't think their marriage is in trouble. At least NOT from what we have seen so far.

 

Well, David DID say that writing those Love Letters Yolanda DEMANDED/EXPECTED was NOT an easy task! LOL

[motorcitymom65]

Except that someone HAS brought up some of Cedric's allegations on the show, ON camera and that was Brandi. LisaV just "poo poo'ed" away these comments, first saying they were not true, to consider the source and then ignoring them. They were never discussed again BECAUSE she refused to react to them. This IS where Lisa is very different from the rest, she refuses to react or OVER react like the rest do and because of that, everyone moves on to the next thing/fight. It seems, at least so far, Erika is the same way, address it head on, laugh it off and leave it by the side of the road where it belongs as you drive away. LOL

I agree, but my point is that I think it has to do with who is doing the talking/asking. Brandi and Lisa were sworn enemies when Brandi talked about Cedric. If it had been someone she considered her friend, going into detail (Brandi didn't - she made some remark about Lisa having him removed from the country) about something that was quite painful to Lisa - on camera - would have hurt her and angered her beyond belief.  One thing I believe for sure, Lisa would never forgive a "friend" who did that to her on camera. Not if it was something they knew she didn't want openly discussed. 

[WireWrap]

I agree, but my point is that I think it has to do with who is doing the talking/asking. Brandi and Lisa were sworn enemies when Brandi talked about Cedric. If it had been someone she considered her friend, going into detail (Brandi didn't - she made some remark about Lisa having him removed from the country) about something that was quite painful to Lisa - on camera - would have hurt her and angered her beyond belief.  One thing I believe for sure, Lisa would never forgive a "friend" who did that to her on camera. Not if it was something they knew she didn't want openly discussed. 

Brandi also accused Lisa of sleeping with her "trainer" ON camera and she, Lisa, laughed it off. I think Lisa was really, really hurt by Brandi's betrayal and it has to sting much worse because Lisa DID trust and care very much about Brandi until 2 seasons ago, which IS when Brandi started spewing supposed LV secrets.

 

I don't know if she "wouldn't" forgive them but I don't think she would ever TRUST them again though and I don't think most people would either. Eileen jumped into a conversation between the Lisa's about a divorce and Lisa asked her about her divorce after Eileen said that she was married 3 times. I do believe Lisa when she said she knew about 2 divorces but not the third one and the conversation then off the rails. If you really listen to Lisa's questions, she is asking Eileen all about the romance, the love, the fireworks, when did it start, when did she first know it/realize it.......BUT she used the word "affair" and Eileen shuts down when someone uses that word because of Brandi (at least that is what she claims in her blog). LOL

Edited January 14, 2016 by WireWrap

[talula]

BRAVO asked Bethenny in to stir things up, probably specifically with Erika.  They are trying to get something they consider usable to air from their new hire.  They hired the gold-digger, sex-show vixen and they ended up with Miss Manners. 

 

Ditto LVP.  In LVP's case, I feel like BRAVO wants to get their moneys worth from Eileen, 3/4 of a million dollars for a summer job, and it's not to watch her craft an image of sweetness and light.

 

I just can't blame LVP or Bethenny for doing the job they are hired to do, playing ball with producers.  This is all a business.  BRAVO gives them money, and the cast is supposed to give them ratings (money) in return.  They know what these shows do, and it's not all pretend fabulousness.  It's also not the place for anyone with secrets or pretending a perfection that doesn't exist.  You take the money?  It comes with risks, the biggest one?  Exposure.  That's why it's called REAL housewives.  If the show and cast members don't out/catch you?  The blogs and people on message boards will.  These are all middle-aged women, they should know the score by now.  No pity, none.

 

My personal guess is that the cameras and producers are seeing a bunch of tears in Eileen's marriage, and they will probably begin to really rip soon.  The gambling losses and addiction story that came out yesterday is the tip of an iceberg.  The bickering and name calling we've already seen was done with cameras in Vince and Eileen's faces, so if anyone honestly believes they are nicer and more loving to one another OFF camera, there is a lovely orange bridge for sale.  Add Eileen's rather OTT reaction to Erika Jayne's stripper moves and a picture is beginning to emerge of a woman who has stuff to hide.  (I don't think she's the lady pond type, if anything, my guess would be that her interest was more about perhaps spicing up her sex life with Vince, if they even have one anymore.)

 

It smells like trouble in that marriage, so BRAVO wanted LVP to start picking at the Invisibility Cloak's threads. 

 

We shall see.

 

Anyway, my main point is that Bethenny (and her mother spelled her name that way, so blame her) and LVP are simply doing their job.  It's what they signed up for.  They aren't the only ones that do it for BRAVO, most long term housewives know the score by now.  THIS episode though?  That is exactly what they were doing.

You have a good point. Why is Bethenny allowed to keep her dating life secret/hidden? We didn't hear any NY HW questioning her about her love life last season. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Both LVP and Bethenny are fine being the obnoxious questioners, but I want to hear about Bethenny suing Sonja regarding Sonja's new business and making a grab for Sonja's business name. Come on Bethenny lets talk about branding, like you trying to steal your good friend Sonja's shot at branding her business. Hey Bravo, LOL, let's get everyone's dirty laundry out, no HW should be exempt.

[Rainny]

Right, but I do believe Spelling did provide for his grown kids in his will, with no stipulation that they got they $ after Candi died.  Maybe Girardi will go Warren Buffet and his kids get nothing, maybe he has already given them their inheritance, or maybe Erika will end up in court fighting a'la Anna Nicole and J. Howard Marshall, Jr.....what I do think is that Erika knows it's in her best financial interest to stay married to Tom Girardi until his death, which benefits her by putting her on better legal standing and she gets to enjoy all of the wealth while they are still married.  It doesn't seem like he cramps her style in any way, so I can see why she wouldn't want to risk anything in a divorce.

 

I found the juxtaposition of Erika and Bethenny to be interesting in this episode, because while Kyle and Bethenny were catching up and admiring B's Hampton's home, I was marveling at the thought that Bethenny paid for all of that with her own damn money, and I was thinking how refreshing that is to see....a woman who didn't marry a sugar daddy but instead, hussled her ass off and got it on her own (yes, I know, she had a wealthy absentee father and went to fancy boarding schools).  Bethenny has her flaws, for sure, but I respect her.  I guess at the end of the day, I don't have any respect for Erika. 

 

Oh, you're right. I forgot all the drama over Tori getting practically nothing which to me would have been a small fortune. lol 

[jaync]

Can you imagine if Lisa had asked Eileen about the rumors that she was born a male?
 

Well there, now we know David Foster dresses on the left.

Hah, I'd forgotten about that. It was like "bam", there it is.

 

As far as Bethenny goes, unless they're doing a 10-part thing in the Hamptons, I assume (and really hope) she won't be back again.

Unfortunately, she was shown in the preview for the next episode. Somebody's brand must be desperate for the exposure.

 

And Bethenny doesn't need to worry about marrying a rich man because she's made herself a rich woman.

Good for her for not having that particular worry, but she's still a dickhole. And a poster child for "money isn't everything".

 

If Erika is a gold digger, then what does that make Tom, a diggee?

 

Andy has some hot legs.

 

Any ideas on who the divorcing couple is that the Lisas were discussing?

[ScoobieDoobs]

As I watched Max this week pop up on VPR, he inspired many, many, many questions for me.  Like just what exactly is his story?  Is there something going on with him Lisa is playing down or hiding -- or not?  I'm wondering how much Pump would appreciate probing questions (from pretty much outta nowhere) from Eileen or anyone in the cast about Max.  OK, I'm merely using Max as an obvious example, but it could be anything Lisa doesn't want to publicly discuss.

 

No, I still think the discussion of Eileen's marriages was a pre-planned stunt -- coming totally from Satan Andy & his minion producers.  That's the shtick of Satan Andy's shows -- finding anyone's weak points & tweak 'em, tweak 'em, tweak it 'em.  Cruel?  You betcha.  But that's Satan Andy's style.  Do I feel sorry for Eileen?  Not in the least.  This is why she's getting paid the 750 thou.  Same goes for Erika.  Hey, when she signed on for this thing, she also signed on to be attacked by Satan Andy's palsy-walsy Bethenny -- or anyone in the cast.

 

Is it bothersome that Pump was willing to go along with the planned attack/interrogation of Eileen?  Not really, but it says a lot about who Pump is   She has loyalty to nobody in this cast & she'll do whatever Satan Andy tells her to do -- certainly because of her ties to him due to VPR & to keep her spot on the show, which she clearly (and desperately) wants to cling to.

 

It pains me to see Bethenny will still be back next week.  Ick, ew, yuck, blech & feh.  Good God, get her off here already, Satan Andy.  I think what bothers me most about her is she is above the fray -- as Satan Andy's palsy-walsy.  EVERYONE in this cast could & will be roasted & toasted at some point, in setups by Satan Andy & his minions.  But Bethenny NEVER will now.  Ugh, just ugh. 

[Pattycake2]

Last season, Eileen said that she also gambled a lot. I agree that if she didn't want her marriage to be discussed on camera, she shouldn't have asked for the apology while the cameras were rolling.  Doing that cements the issue.

 

It's interesting that Erika's video was removed from youtube.  Was it for the sexual aspects?  3 million hits?  Guys weren't dancing to the video, that's for sure. 

Edited January 14, 2016 by Pattycake2

[kassa]

Do I think he's bumping boots with her several times a day?  Nope.  But there are plenty of women in their 40s who don't want it every day, every week or even every month. ;-)  Just because she has a highly sexualized job doesn't mean she comes home and wants to be nailed every which way to Sunday.

 

 

And just because he's older doesn't mean he's forgotten everything he ever knew.  Viagra.  And toys.  

 

THIS. It cracks me up with all the "Erika is so real!" "She's too cool to care!" "She eats cake! She's just like us!" "She plays the Jedi mind trick on haters, if they like her, that's a problem!" Please! She knows what people say and think about her. She just says it before you can. If she were as secure and bad-ass as she likes to put out there, she wouldn't even give people the satisfaction; she'd make THEM say it, not make it easy for them.

 

 

 

The talking heads are done after the filming is done (or much of it, anyway).  She has a general idea of what's going to hit the air, and where she stands with each person.  She also knows the likely stones that will be thrown (maybe because by the time she did the talking heads they'd been thrown at her in person).  

 

Erika was secure and bad-ass enough at the table with Bethenny to just sit there and let Bethenny blather on about a topic she knew nothing about.  But in the talking heads, after likely being asked by a producer "what do you say to people who think you're a gold digger?" she's going to answer the question, not say "can't answer that - won't give them the satisfaction."

[Umbelina]

That's the thing though, Bravo didn't hire her to "just sit there."

[Rosebud1970]

It is the delivery and the meaness

with Beth that makes me cringe.

There is New York Blunt which for me is well represented by Judy Sheindlin and the late Joan Rivers and then there is .Beth.

No, thanks.

See, here's the thing.

 

New Yorker, born and bred. We are direct, not blunt. Bethenny is just your basic bitch. On top of that, she's mean, nasty and judgmental. And, yeah, I'm looking at you, honey.

 

To be honest, I've never liked her. Not even from way back when, when she was a contestant on The Apprentice, before it was Celebrity Apprentice. I used to watch it then (I stopped long ago), but I remember her.  She used to look a lot different then. Better, in fact.

 

See? That's direct.

[ryebread]

I think Lisa was really, really hurt by Brandi's betrayal and it has to sting much worse because Lisa DID trust and care very much about Brandi until 2 seasons ago, which IS when Brandi started spewing supposed LV secrets.

 

I don't think she was hurt at all. I think Lisa is cold and never really cared for Brandi.  She was probably embarrassed that Brandi - her psycho sycophant from South Sactown - tried to get a long, lovely leg up on her.  I can't imagine Lisa feeling hurt by anybody.  She believes herself too good to be hurt by anyone.  It's beneath her.

[kassa]

That's the thing though, Bravo didn't hire her to "just sit there."

 

Bravo doesn't care if you "just sit there" if you bring it in the talking heads and otherwise provide product, i.e. house porn/plane porn/dinner party porn, and maybe pick your own fights (as opposed to fighting people who come for you.)  Lisa V doesn't fight back - she rolls her eyes and fake giggles and waves her hand and dismisses any frontal attacks.  It works for her.

 

I referenced "just sitting there" to the poster who said that a truly confident person wouldn't address the hate up front but would let it roll off her back.  That seemed to me to be precisely what Erika was doing with Bethenny. Pretty much all her defensive snark has been in talking heads, in response to what we presume are direct questions intended to provoke a response (and in that situation she definitely can't "just sit there.")

[Umbelina]

Well, that's generous.

 

I think Erika's wittiness is only in her talking heads because she can't think on her feet in real time.  She can come up with stuff days or hours later, with a full day of shooting nothing but her, and Bravo's prompting, but in real time?  So far?  Not so much.

 

Lisa never "just sits there."  She's always part of the conversation, either doing Bravo's will by grilling, or by responding, and not just in talking heads.

[ScoobieDoobs]

See, here's the thing.

 

New Yorker, born and bred. We are direct, not blunt. Bethenny is just your basic bitch. On top of that, she's mean, nasty and judgmental. And, yeah, I'm looking at you, honey.

 

To be honest, I've never liked her. Not even from way back when, when she was a contestant on The Apprentice, before it was Celebrity Apprentice. I used to watch it then (I stopped long ago), but I remember her.  She used to look a lot different then. Better, in fact.

 

See? That's direct.

 

Thank you.  You nailed exactly what bothers me about Bethenny.  Of course her accomplishments are admirable.  But it's her meanness I wouldn't wanna be anywhere near.  It's always at the expense of others.  I know plenty of successful NYC women who made it on their own, but without her nasty attitude.  She's always sneering & putting down anyone near her.  I can't get past her attitude.  Unpleasant as fuck & sucks as far as I'm concerned.  The reason her mug looks like it does is cuz of that nasty attitude.  No surgery, fillers or whatever can erase that shit from her face.  It will always show thru.  And starvation, severe dieting, excessive workouts & whatever else she might do so she can live up to the Skinnygirl name (which she, by her own choice, has enslaved herself to) doesn't help her mug look any better either.

 

Now, based on what we've seen, Erika seems nice to me.  Does she also seem ridiculous & kinda silly, with this Erika Jane stuff?  Sure.  But she's harmless, if self-indulgent.  Shockers -- someone on a Housewives show who is self-indulgent.  Guess I just like that so far she seems nice.  And quite a contrast to Bethenny, who I hope we will not see again on here after next ep.  Honestly, I really luv it when a gal who isn't 22 can look that good & hot.  And if Youtube took off her vid cuz they were worried guys were jerking off to it, then I say that's great.  Kinda doubt anyone's jerking off to Bethenny (ew), but then who knows?

Edited January 14, 2016 by ScoobieDoobs

[Duke2801]

Quote

Frankly, I have not heard anyone even whisper the gold digger word in 25 plus years. Mostly heard this word thrown around by men who didn't have financial success. And were looking for some reason why they weren't having luck dating. Never mind they were long overdue for a personality shot.

 

 

It's that damn song that must have brought it back into the modern lexicon. Thanks KANYE!

[jaync]

She has loyalty to nobody in this cast & she'll do whatever Satan Andy tells her to do -- certainly because of her ties to him due to VPR & to keep her spot on the show, which she clearly (and desperately) wants to cling to.

Andy doesn't have anything (production-wise) to do with VR, and I don't believe he holds an executive position on this show as he does with the others in the franchise. I guess he could still hold a lot of pull at Bravo because of his past position there, though.

[ryebread]

I referenced "just sitting there" to the poster who said that a truly confident person wouldn't address the hate up front but would let it roll off her back.  That seemed to me to be precisely what Erika was doing with Bethenny.

 

I thought it was more than just sitting there.  Erika is smart in that at the dinner table when Bethenny started her nonsense, she assumed the position and posture of the one in control.  Turning sideways in her chair with her arm casually draped over the chair, listening very carefully and being 'present'. 

 

She also matched Beth point by point without the manic expression and the wild hand gestures.

 

That said, I don't love everything about Erika.  Her voice sometimes bugs, her TH hair is more bad than good and I really am not a fan of her work.  But whatever.  She's a refreshing change from the others.

[motorcitymom65]

Andy doesn't have anything (production-wise) to do with VR, and I don't believe he holds an executive position on this show as he does with the others in the franchise. I guess he could still hold a lot of pull at Bravo because of his past position there, though.

Andy is still the Executive Producer of all the HW shows. True that he holds no authority over VPR.

[zoeysmom]

Andy doesn't have anything (production-wise) to do with VR, and I don't believe he holds an executive position on this show as he does with the others in the franchise. I guess he could still hold a lot of pull at Bravo because of his past position there, though.

I think Andy is involved with all the Bravo shows to some degree.  He brought VDR on the air.  With his WWHL he can decide who gets to be on the show.  I saw LVP on Tuesday night and she and Andy seemed comfortable-talked equally about VDR and RHOBH.  I do think he offers advice and most likely is privy to dailies-if he so chooses.  Obviously if there are going to be crossovers he is involved.

[RedheadZombie]

I'm not Eileen's biggest fan, but I think she's still unsure what her role is.  Does she have to respond to questions asked by the Queen B, or can she deflect?  I think she may be a naturally straight-forward person who tends to answer questions truthfully.  Her first mistake was offering so much info on "the affair" last season.  I almost fell off my chair when she confessed the details to Brandi.  If I'm a little cynical (always), I would point out that her story made clear that Eileen was honest within her own former marriage, whereas Vince was not.  You can't un-ring that bell.  Her best tactic now would be the - out of respect for Vince's ex, who was the innocent and wronged party, and does not deserve the unwanted attention this brings to her, I'm not going to discuss it.

[WireWrap]

I think Andy is involved with all the Bravo shows to some degree.  He brought VDR on the air.  With his WWHL he can decide who gets to be on the show.  I saw LVP on Tuesday night and she and Andy seemed comfortable-talked equally about VDR and RHOBH.  I do think he offers advice and most likely is privy to dailies-if he so chooses.  Obviously if there are going to be crossovers he is involved.

He still has some involvement but his power, so to speak, has been diminished with all the HW show. IMO, Andy is friends with LisaV, just like he is with several other HWs but no where near his level of friendship with Bethenny, their is a close personal friendship that has bled into and onto the NY show staining it.

[LIMOM]

As I watched Max this week pop up on VPR, he inspired many, many, many questions for me.  Like just what exactly is his story?  Is there something going on with him Lisa is playing down or hiding -- or not?  I'm wondering how much Pump would appreciate probing questions (from pretty much outta nowhere) from Eileen or anyone in the cast about Max.  OK, I'm merely using Max as an obvious example, but it could be anything Lisa doesn't want to publicly discuss.

 

No, I still think the discussion of Eileen's marriages was a pre-planned stunt -- coming totally from Satan Andy & his minion producers.  That's the shtick of Satan Andy's shows -- finding anyone's weak points & tweak 'em, tweak 'em, tweak it 'em.  Cruel?  You betcha.  But that's Satan Andy's style.  Do I feel sorry for Eileen?  Not in the least.  This is why she's getting paid the 750 thou.  Same goes for Erika.  Hey, when she signed on for this thing, she also signed on to be attacked by Satan Andy's palsy-walsy Bethenny -- or anyone in the cast.

 

Is it bothersome that Pump was willing to go along with the planned attack/interrogation of Eileen?  Not really, but it says a lot about who Pump is   She has loyalty to nobody in this cast & she'll do whatever Satan Andy tells her to do -- certainly because of her ties to him due to VPR & to keep her spot on the show, which she clearly (and desperately) wants to cling to.

 

It pains me to see Bethenny will still be back next week.  Ick, ew, yuck, blech & feh.  Good God, get her off here already, Satan Andy.  I think what bothers me most about her is she is above the fray -- as Satan Andy's palsy-walsy.  EVERYONE in this cast could & will be roasted & toasted at some point, in setups by Satan Andy & his minions.  But Bethenny NEVER will now.  Ugh, just ugh.

I knew many of the cast members smoked but I was quite surprised seeing almost all of the younger cast smoking VDP rules on camera, including Max.

[PerPlexied]

There was a scene a week or two ago with Eileen and her husband arguing about a $400 dress and she brought up his gambling and I knew then he had a problem. You could feel the tension/resentment. 

[TattleTeeny]

Yeah, keep telling us how much you care about your sister, Kyle, while Satan Andy sets her up for the slaughter before our eyes, for his precious ratings & to prop up & save the show.  Buckle up & get ready for the predictable ugliness to begin.  What's even more predictable is Kyle standing by doing nothing while her sister is skewered.  Ew.

 

Kim's made her own choices, and one can love a sibling even without being that sibling's watchdog forever or sticking one's neck out for that sibling (I know this from experience). What's Kyle supposed to keep doing after decades of Kim's shit? I am not one bit ashamed to say that after a certain point, I'd quit doing anything for that sibling--and it would take a lot less than Kim's tired old shenanigans for me to make that decision.

Further, though, how does anyone in here know Kyle is "standing by doing nothing"? 

 

She's also trying to go for that young, moist,dewy skin look that nobody past the age of 30 has naturally and she only comes off looking greasy. Only Jennifer Lopez's make up artist knows how to do that look.

 

The women in my family have that dewy thing. I'm in my mid-40s and it's there. My grandma always had it too, and my mom probably still would but she smokes and drinks too much. Actually so did Grandma, but she took care of herself much better than my mom does (plus, she was a lovable airhead who often didn't realize that the magenta-lipstick-stained Capri or Virginia Slim she'd been puffing for like an hour wasn't even lit, so who even knows?).

 

Doesn't mean she loves him any less because NOW he's so much older and looks it. It appears that they did fall in love when they were younger, got married and have remained so.

 

Just like me and my longterm love...

 

Harrison Ford.

Edited January 15, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[AuntieDiane6]

 

A lot of mothers back in the day went to college looking for good prospects to get their Mrs. degree... a more genteel way of gold digging I guess. Why didn't they just marry their high school sweetheart jock back at home now pumping gas?

 

Because in those days, a college degree guaranteed a good-paying job and a nice lifestyle.  It's like Lauri from RHoOC red to say: "I've been rich and I've been poor and rich is better." 

 

I think a gold digger is a woman or man who sticks with someone who physically/sexually repulses her/him in order to keep or gain a financial windfall.  It reminds me of an episode of Sex and the City where Samantha dated a way older man.  He was funny, rich, smart ... but once when she was in bed with him, he got up to go to the bathroom and she saw his naked, wrinkled, saggy bottom and she just about threw up in her mouth a little bit ... and ran out.

Edited January 15, 2016 by AuntieDiane6

[Umbelina]

I still hear "gold digger" all the time.

 

To me it's someone who marries someone rich that they wouldn't marry if that person were middle or lower class.  So if this guy were an electrician, high school teacher, store clerk, or mailman, would Erika marry him?  I seriously doubt it.

 

I think men can be gold diggers too, but they are usually called gigolos.  Although maybe gigolos is the male version of prostitute?  I don't think so, men and women can be called prostitutes.  Guys can be gold diggers too.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Umbelina

[AnnA]

Behind the scenes photo from this episode:

 

 

Doesn't Kyle ever look in a mirror?

 

That dress is God awful and that print fabric reminds me of the "house dresses" my grandmother wore back in the day. 

Edited January 15, 2016 by AnnA

[tenativelyyours]

Behind the scenes photo from this episode:

 

Cohen has the worst forced smile.  Of course.  It looks like Rinna is fisting him and he is trying to pretend it is not happening but failing miserably. 

[Noire]

Used to be, a tailor, when working on a pair of  pants for a man would be genteel and ask "Do you dress right or left?" -  meaning how is your genitalia arranged, on the right or left side of pants leg and the pants would ne tailored to accomodate. It was  more of an a issue with big roomy boxer shorts that offered no support.

 

When David was sitting on the hospital bed w/Yolanda, you could see his big old package and it was arranged on the left side of his zipper--something odd to notice, but they did show it a few times.

 

So I learned something today.  Cool random fact.