S06.E02: Season 6, Episode 2

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Plans for the wedding are gathering steam, but Lady Mary's meddling lands Carson in trouble with Mrs Hughes. Cora and Violet clash over plans for the hospital takeover, and Thomas's job search is proving disheartening. Mary comes up with a fresh idea that offers Anna fresh hope, prompting a trip to London, and Lady Edith faces challenges at the magazine although it's a problem closer to home that reaches breaking point. A day for the family and servants ends in panic and leaves Robert facing a difficult decision.

[CofCinci]

What's going on with Edith and Marigold in the preview? Does she give Marigold back to that family?

[Badger]

Maybe Marigold recognizes them?  

[Good Queen Jane]

I assume that's a typo on the date of the episode and not that it aired in June.

[Athena]

The ir date in the episode title has been fixed. In the future, anyone can request edits to typos in thread titles. Thank you.

[Tetraneutron]

Why would Thomas be worried about his future? Carson's about to get married and retire to run his bed and breakfast, so Thomas would be Butler, right? I know they tried to set it up by having Cora say "who has an underbutler these days" but isn't this a "problem" that solves itself?

 

What's going on with Edith and Marigold in the preview? Does she give Marigold back to that family?

I think Mary takes Marigold to visit the Drewes, who, as far as Mary knows, are Marigold's biological parents who gave her to Edith in an amicable and mutually-agreed-upon way. And since that's NOT the case, it blows up.

 

I wonder what the "panic" and "difficult decision" are?

[Llywela]

I think Mary takes Marigold to visit the Drewes, who, as far as Mary knows, are Marigold's biological parents who gave her to Edith in an amicable and mutually-agreed-upon way. And since that's NOT the case, it blows up.

Almost but not quite - Mary doesn't think they are Marigold's biological parents. The story was that the Drews took in the orphaned child of a dead friend, but found they couldn't afford to raise her, having a family of their own already, so Edith offered to take her. It made them look bad, either way, when they'd in fact done nothing wrong.

[vesperholly]

I think Mary is going to find out that Marigold is Edith's child. Mrs Drew was pretty pissed at Edith when she "adopted" Marigold. I wouldn't be surprised if Mrs Drew told Mary the truth to get back at Edith.

 

Whatever arch bitch comment Mary throws at Edith after learning that news, I hope Edith throws it back in her face and promptly decamps for her fabulous London flat.

[CofCinci]

Promo pics for the episode. Very spoiling. I think she gives Marigold back?

http://theconsultingdetectivesblog.com/2015/09/21/downton-abbey-series-six-episode-two-promotional-pictures/

[Saje]

Those pics are great, but 'gives Marigold back'? Wait - who to whom? 

 

It looks to me like there's maybe a spot of something, but Edith would never give her own child back to the Drewes. Do you mean Mrs. Drewe gives her back to Edith?

I hope, just this once, Mary isn't a bitch.

[shipperx]

I'm going to hold off until we know how this goes down. Surely, Mary wouldn't take it as her place to unilaterally decide custody in a situation she has not been involved in at all. Even believing that Marigold is only a foster child, where would Mary have either the interest or the authority to make any choice here? What would be her motivation?

So I'm holding off judgement until more is known about the situation.

[photo fox]

I'm going to answer in the UK speculation with spoilers topic. ;-)

[Kirsty]

Looks like another pig-related plotline for Mary. Unfortunate timing! :D

[Andorra]

Okay, I liked that episode much better than the first. I even was able to enjoy Carson/Hughes for the first time. Mrs Hughes was back to form telling Mr. Carson what to do is much more my cup of tea than the awful sex-talk storyline from last episoe.

 

Mary was splendid today. I liked her very much and was so happy that the horrible woman from last season seemed to be gone. She was cute with George, sweet with Anna and was wanting the best for Carson and Mrs Hughes even though she got that wrong. I loved it when she counted out to Anna why she deserves her help. You're damn right Lady Mary, Anna has helped you through a lot! I like it how she took charge. Also she looked terrific this episode 

 

I was a bit disappointed with Edith at the very end. Again she had no compassion at all for Mrs Drewe. I thought the scene with Mr. and Mrs Drewe was very touching and I liked Robert, too. Edith was stressed a lot of course and she will be happy to see the last of Mrs Drewe, but she used this woman and her husband badly. They're loosing their home now and Edith just said a short: "I think it's best". Well...

 

Poor Thomas. I feel bad for him.

 

I like Baxter so much. What a nice and warm person she is. And Molesly is a jewel, too.

 

I must admit I had to laugh out loud when Anna was AGAIN crying in the shoe room. Come on, that can't be fun to play can it? Crying, crying, crying in every single scene since season 2?
At least in the end she was smiling for once. THANK YOU FELLOWS!

 

The hospital storyline is boring.

 

Tom was mentioned and now he just has to come back next episode! I can't wait to see him on my screen again!

Edited September 27, 2015 by Andorra

[CofCinci]

I'm so disgusted by Edith. Mrs. Drew took in your unwanted baby and gave her unconditional love. Nice way to repay the family by kicking them out on their poor pig farmer asses.

[Glade]

I was bored yet again, it feels like the show is just going through the motions now, there is no big plot happening here, just slow-moving, sedate repetition.  I hated the laborious, predictable setup of 'oh, let's see how modern and revolutionary Mary is!' and how we're all supposed to think the man is so sexist and backwards for not believing that any of these rich people would actually do something themselves when they don't even dress, bathe themselves, or even pour drinks out of bottles on their own.  I think there is legitimate reason to be disappointed at having to deal with Mary quite beyond what she thinks are her handicaps.

 

I hated Cora's dress with the slack-belt that was hanging loosely below her waist, dragging down the dress and making sure that her stomach was showing. 

 

I'm very dissapointed that now the tenancy which Daisy would inherit is right on the estate.  That was her (and thereby Mrs Patmore's) ticket out of the downton triangle, and now it's gone!  That kidnapping Marigold story didn't even end with Mary finding out or Edith finally deciding to move to London, either.  Is that the land agent she's with in the preview?  I thought he was better looking last year.  And where the hell is Matthew Goode??? I have no interest whatsoever in the hospital plot, it shouldn't have gone beyond one episode, it's a tired afterthought trying to squeeze drama and juiciness from nothing.  

 

I feel bad for Thomas, he has neither friendship nor a potential lover in Jimmy's replacement.  I think Carson is being excessively coy about not telling him whether he is really fired or not.  I'm sure he remembers Carson snarling at him in the past about how he long outstayed his welcome, and then trying to deny him a reference, etc.  So he has good reason to think the third attempted termination won't turn out any better.

[NorthstarATL]

Okay, I liked that episode much better than the first. I even was able to enjoy Carson/Hughes for the first time. Mrs Hughes was back to form telling Mr. Carson what to do is much more my cup of tea than the awful sex-talk storyline from last episoe.

 

Mary was splendid today. I liked her very much and was so happy that the horrible woman from last season seemed to be gone. She was cute with George, sweet with Anna and was wanting the best for Carson and Mrs Hughes even though she got that wrong. I loved it when she counted out to Anna why she deserves her help. You're damn right Lady Mary, Anna has helped you through a lot! I like it how she took charge. Also she looked terrific this episode 

 

I was a bit disappointed with Edith at the very end. Again she had no compassion at all for Mrs Drewe. I thought the scene with Mr. and Mrs Drewe was very touching and I liked Robert, too. Edith was stressed a lot of course and she will be happy to see the last of Mrs Drewe, but she used this woman and her husband badly. They're loosing their home now and Edith just said a short: "I think it's best". Well...

Mary is very much Violet's granddaughter, isn't she? I loved the scenes with Anna as well! They are as close to being "friends" as the system would allow, I think. Edith, OTOH, really didn't come off well. She COULD live in London with her daughter, and allow the Drews to  keep their farm, and it looked like that's where things were headed last season. I think the scene at the publication where , if I'm not mistaken, the man in HER employ was yelling at her was an indication of how well in hand she has things. It's really too bad. It might have been nice to end the series with both of the remaining daughters successful in her own way. I guess that still could happen, but I'm not counting on it.

  Why can't the Carsons have two ceremonies?

[Ecotone]

I'm so disgusted by Edith. Mrs. Drew took in your unwanted baby and gave her unconditional love. Nice way to repay the family by kicking them out on their poor pig farmer asses.

Except we were never given any indication that Edith's baby was "unwanted", quite the opposite really. It's not like she went on to kick up her heels and never give the child another thought. Edith was placed in an untenable situation that happened (dare I say, continues to happen) where mothers are either bullied into or coerced into giving their wanted children away. What happened with Mrs. Drewe was unfortunate, but that situation would never have happened if so many circumstances had not failed for or led Edith down that path in the first place.

[Andorra]

 

And where the hell is Matthew Goode???

 

Don't expect him before

episode 4 or 5. He started filming only in Mid April. 

 

 

What happened with Mrs. Drewe was unfortunate, but that situation would never have happened if so many circumstances had not failed for or led Edith down that path in the first place.

 

 

I think Edith did have a right to keep her daughter, but what made me really angry is her lack of compassion for the Drewes. I have always defended Edith when people called her selfish, but I have to say: She is!  Mrs Drewe obviously is in a deep depression, they have to give up their home and their living. Edith is responsible for all that, but she just shrugs it off and has a short "I think it's for the best" to say about their situation? That's disgusting. 

 

People always say Mary is narcistic etc, but Mary does look out for the people she loves. She sensed how unhappy Anna was and sought a solution and how she could help. She wants Carson to have a nice wedding, so she tries to find a solution that he likes. She overlooks Mrs Hughes in that instance, but it is Carson's fault that he doesn't simply tell her. The good intention is there though and I have yet to see any good intention or genuine care from Edith for someone else but her. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by Andorra

[Llywela]

What Edith did to Mrs Drew was more than unfortunate - it was downright cruel. That woman did nothing wrong. She took in an orphaned baby girl and lavished unconditional love upon her, and she has been punished for that at every turn, just because Edith kept changing her mind. Edith did not want that baby enough to keep her - there were plenty of unmarried mothers around even in the '20s. Even now she doesn't want her daughter enough to tell her who she really is. She wanted to have her cake and eat it too, and found it harder than she expected, and so turned the lives of an innocent family completely upside down without so much as a thought for what she was doing to them. She still doesn't care that they've been punished for her mistakes yet again. They've worked that farm for over a hundred years, and now they have to leave because of what Edith did? It's unfair and cruel.

 

Maybe they can swap farms with Mr Mason.

[MSterling]

I'm empathetic to Mrs. Drewe's situation but then she kidnapped Marigold. No one is pleased with the result but this isn't something the Crawleys can overlook and they didn't prosecute her. Even if Edith and Marigold moved to the London flat, the Drewes would still have to go. Marigold and Edith would visit the estate from time to time. They can't put a guard on the girl every time the she visits because they're worried Mrs. Drewe may be more successful next time. 

 

I don't understand the Edith hate, either. She didn't leave the Drewes alone when they had Marigold living with them, so they knew how much she loved the child. Edith didn't demand punishment for Mrs. Drewe for the poorly conceived kidnapping. I think Edith was reasonable considering Mrs. Drewe kidnapped her daughter.

[MissLucas]

The most galling aspect of the Drewe story often gets forgotten: the idiotic ploy Mr Drewe and Lady Edith concocted right at the beginning. Instead of telling Mrs Drewe the truth she was told Marigold was the child of a former aqcuintance of Mr Drewe that they were now going to raise as their own. IIRC the Drewes have no daughter just boys and the poor woman formed an extreme bond with the girl treating her like a surrogate daughter. Had she been told the truth she probably would have been more guarded or she would have told them that the whole scheme was harebrained from the get-go.

 

I also liked the little exchange between Lord Grantham and Mr Drewe at the end how everything went so wrong because of 'emotions' - you could practically see their paternalistic eyerolling at each other 'ovaries! what you gonna do!'.

 

I like Edith but it's high time she gets her act together. This is the show's final run so they can really move her plot along now. I also start to feel sorry for Mary because people give her the side-eye for being so unfeeling when this once she really is not in the wrong. This is not something I want to get used to - so Edith, stop moaning about the damn flat and move to London!

Edited September 28, 2015 by MissLucas

[feverfew]

It was cruel of Edith - but as MSterling wrote, Mrs. Drewe kidnapped Marigold! If that had been my daughter, I don't think I would have been as forgiving as some of you guys here. It really is a desperate situation, but I'm sorry; what mrs. Drewe did was bonkers. I kept thinking during the whole episode that she looked completely unhinged, and the way she behaved made me think that we would learn that there was something not quite right in her brain. Because normal people don't kidnap children, no matter how much they love them. A normal mrs. Drewe would not have gone up to speak with Cora, she would have spoken to Edith. She would have told her, how much she loved the little girl and she wold have realised that Edith loved her just as much. I'm sorry, but I got the creepy crawly feeling from that woman.

 

Will wonders never cease? I liked Mary in this episode (except for the whole "you'll have your wedding here, and that's final!" - way to be tonedeaf, Mary!)

[saki]

I thought this episode made clear that Mrs Drew is mentally ill – the final scene suggested that she was having almost a psychotic break.  That was clearly triggered by Marigold/Edith but I thought it was clear that it ran much deeper than that. 

 

I don’t think Edith has acted perfectly here but I think, mostly, this is just a really sad and difficult situation for everyone and I think it’s unfair to say that it’s all Edith’s fault.  I don’t think it’s anyone’s ‘fault’ per se but I think, if I were to blame anyone, it would probably be Mr Drew – who a) should never have agreed to keeping the secret from his wife and b) as he kind of admitted in this episode, should have realised that his wife would not be able to cope with this.  Even if Edith took Marigold to London, she would still want to be able to bring her to Downton from time to time for visits/Christmas/etc so I don’t think that would be a permanent solution.

 

I agree that this was a good episode for Mary – but I don’t think it’s fair to say that she is always kind and thoughtful and Edith never thinks of others.  I think what we saw in this episode is consistent with what we’ve always seen – that Mary has a small number of people that she’s close to (Anna and Carson being prominent amongst them) and she will do things for them (which is nice) but she won’t hesitate to steam roller them if they don’t agree with her (Anna and the contraception, Matthew and the Swire inheritance) and she doesn’t have much ability to see an opposing viewpoint or think about anything that doesn’t directly relate to her.  So, for instance, I can’t believe that Mary hasn’t figured out the Marigold thing – it just underlines her lack of interest in others…  it’s just really obvious at this point!  Edith has shown, particularly in WW1 where Mary did nothing for the war effort other than nurse Matthew and complain about singing a song, that she can have empathy for people who are not directly connected to her.

 

Some other random observations:

 

I really enjoyed Carson and Mrs Hughes in this episode – think it’s interesting to see their dynamic.  I think Carson handled it all wrong – if he’d said “This is my home, this is where we met, this is where we fell in love, this is where I’d like to celebrate our marriage”, Mrs Hughes might have gone for it, “This is what Lady Mary wants” was not the right approach…

 

This episode reminds me that I actually quite like Cora – she is quite a background character but I like the good sense and tact that she shows.  I liked how quickly she stepped in to go with Mary to the Drewes, as well as her instinctive understanding that Mrs Hughes might not want her reception at Downton.

 

I rolled my eyes at the fact that Julian Fellowes just can’t have Mary lose anything – she even has to win a minor pig competition… 

 

I wish that we had a bit more detail on Edith and the magazine – it’s hard to know whether the editor is actually awful or whether he’s right that Edith doesn’t know what she’s doing, we just haven’t been given enough info.

 

I love Molesley and Baxter – when are they going to get engaged?  When?  Is she going to have to propose?

[MissLucas]

Of course Mrs Drewe is bonkers or rather in the midst of a massive depression like a woman who has lost a child - I don't think you need to go and look for other issues here. Siccing the police on her won't help her, her kids or Lady Edith for that matter (considering the amount of question the police might have about Marigold). The decent thing to do would be to find her medical help.

 

Ultimately the situation was caused by Lady Edith because she can't make up her mind about her life. Yes, single mothers had it hard back in those days. But she's an extremely well-off single mother, protected by wealth and privilege so the longer she wavers to finally commit to a life of her own (incl. to finally admit that Marigold is her daughter even to Mary) the harder I find it to sympathize with her.

 

And don't forget Mrs Drewe was not the first foster-mother of Marigold. Edith has yanked that girl away from two families already.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I wish that we had a bit more detail on Edith and the magazine – it’s hard to know whether the editor is actually awful or whether he’s right that Edith doesn’t know what she’s doing, we just haven’t been given enough info.

Me too - Edith said that he hated all of her ideas for articles and interviews as well as the photos that were just taken, so does she have terrible ideas or is he just being an ass? If he's just being a jerk, can she just fire him and hire a new editor?

 

I am so bored of all the hospital business. I guess they really wanted to go back to the Violet/Isobel sniping so they needed some reason for them to be at odds with each other, but it's only the second episode and I'm already tired of the seemingly endless debate about the damn hospital.

 

I laughed when Robert said, "Golly." Usually it's Mary who says that so I wasn't expecting it from him.

[Featherhat]

Edith did not want that baby enough to keep her - there were plenty of unmarried mothers around even in the '20s. Even now she doesn't want her daughter enough to tell her who she really is. She wanted to have her cake and eat it too, and found it harder than she expected, and so turned the lives of an innocent family completely upside down without so much as a thought for what she was doing to them

There may have always been unwed mothers, and I’m not disputing that, but there were very few aristocratic girls in the 20s willing to stand up and go “yup, that’s my illegitimate daughter with my married lover, deal with it!” at least right away. And it would impact both their lives negatively (from a social and economic stand point). As much as she might flirt with the idea, she really isn’t (yet) a revolutionary literary type willing to defy convention.

Her messing two families around is cruel, whether or not she meant it to be, especially as she never seems to think about what they might be going through as well. Her best bet if she wanted to “keep” her would have been to have her briefly fostered out with the clear intention of bringing her back to Downton at a later date and adopt her as her “ward” as she has done. Most people would guess, but it provides a veneer of deniability for outside the family (for Marigold’s sake). That or go to America, but for some reason that never came up for Edith.

[saki]

Of course Mrs Drewe is bonkers or rather in the midst of a massive depression like a woman who has lost a child - I don't think you need to go and look for other issues here. Siccing the police on her won't help her, her kids or Lady Edith for that matter (considering the amount of question the police might have about Marigold). The decent thing to do would be to find her medical help.

 

I entirely agree that she needs medical help.  But I don't think that her reaction is the 'normal' reaction for a woman who has lost a child - for me, this episode made clear that she had an underlying mental illness which this experience has triggered.  I don't think that bit can be blamed on Edith.  

[shipperx]

Mrs Drewe has always seemed a little emotionally off, IMHO. I also think the incident last year where she flew into hysterics over Edith standing in the garden with Marigokd was projection. Edith hadn't taken Marigold anywhere.

Mrs Drewe was placed in an unfair situation from the beginning and her husband should never have kept the truth from her. ( and I know Edith wanted it kept secret in general but I don't remember whetherbEdith demanded he not tell his wife or whether he decided it was 'better' this way.) Either way while it's sympathetic that she is handling this poorly, her reactions have often been seemed to outpace a situation all along. She has always seemed a bit much.

Edited September 28, 2015 by shipperx

[Llywela]

Speaking of adoption, as we kind of were, I didn't much like Anna telling Bates that adoption couldn't be an option for them, not because she doesn't want to, but because she doesn't believe he could love an adopted child.

[ZoloftBlob]

I didn't much like Anna telling Bates that adoption couldn't be an option for them, not because she doesn't want to, but because she doesn't believe he could love an adopted child.

 

Better for the potential kid if she genuinely believes that. Sorry, but I had this discussion for real with a partner who couldn't have biological children and that was our conclusion as well, that it wouldn't work and wouldn't be fair to the kid.

[Tetraneutron]

Move. The Plot. Forward. I want Shonda Rhimes to come in a guest-write just one episode of this show so something will actually happen.

 

Where Carson and Mrs. Hughes should hold their wedding? Not worthy of a multi-episode arc. Where Mr. Mason moves? Not worthy of a multi-episode arc. If Thomas is friends with Andy? Not worthy of even a single episode if they aren't going to explain what's going on. Seriously, what's with that? Are they redoing the Thomas and Jimmy plot, where Thomas has an unrequited crush on another servant? It's recycling a plot no one much liked the first time, and therefore TOTALLY in character for Julian Fellowes. Is that what they're doing? Does Thomas think Andy's gay? Does he like him That Way? And what's Andy's deal? Does he know Thomas is gay? Think Thomas is after him? Being careerist? I can't even tell and that makes the whole thing pointless.

 

As for the Drewe family plotline, I'm glad that's over with even as it was terrible. OF COURSE Mrs. Drewe is crazy, meaning nothing about this is Edith's fault God forbid a Crawley ever suffer a consequence, no matter how badly they screw up. Edith handled the whole thing terribly, but it doesn't matter because Mrs. Drewe is worse, thereby absolving Edith of all blame. I suppose next episode there will be a throwaway line about how happy the Drewes are in their new tenancy and we'll never have to hear about any of this again, thank God.

 

And does anyone, even one person, care about the damn hospital? Why does Julian Fellowes believe having Violet and Isobel fighting is such a big draw? No one watches this show for a snark-off between old ladies who have nothing to do with any ongoing storyline. This isn't The Golden Girls

Edited September 28, 2015 by Tetraneutron

[feverfew]

Speaking of adoption, as we kind of were, I didn't much like Anna telling Bates that adoption couldn't be an option for them, not because she doesn't want to, but because she doesn't believe he could love an adopted child.

I actually thought that was extremely unfair on Anna's part. He brings up the possibility of adoption, and she tells him he wouldn't love an adopted child! I know; she's in a terrible place and she's hurting a lot, but that was basically making it all about how she couldn't give him children.

[romantic idiot]

On the other hand, he didn't contradict her. Back to the one hand, I do love how Bates insists on being their for Anna, sharing their lives. And I can't believe that man wouldn't have it in him to love a child, even if not of his blood. 

[ThomasAAnderson]

 

OF COURSE Mrs. Drewe is crazy, meaning nothing about this is Edith's fault God forbid a Crawley ever suffer a consequence, no matter how badly they screw up.

Nope not THE Crawleys just one. The one that's been forgiven for being an ass for far too long. I'm sorry Edith isn't married and that her lover was unavailable then died but none of that excuses the shitty things she's done. That note to the Turkish embassy would have affected ALL the Crawleys especially Sybil who had not "come out" by then. Mrs. Drewe took in a child that needed a home and became attached. It would have been interesting (but required better writing) if Mrs. Drewe had said no from the start. Would Lady Edith had taken their farm away then? Would that have been viewed in the same way it is now? And why is it okay to have a secret with someone else's husband?

 

Help me out..what has Thomas ever done to deserve any empathy at all. FUCK HIM. If it weren't for Thomas neither of the Bates would have seen the inside of a jail cell. He's been jealous of them and their happiness from the onset and has behaved despicably. 

 

The only good part of the hospital storyline is watching the Dowager and Isobel go at it. I also think it's there because there's been some grumblings about NHS funding; perhaps Fellowes is trying to tie in the current debate.

Edited September 28, 2015 by ThomasAAnderson

[shipperx]

The ONLY?

Bit of an exaggeration, no? I'm pretty sure that extraordinary outs for bad plotting have happened for other Crawleys as well once or twice.

For instance, I can remember a fiancé discovering her betrothed snogging a Crawley in the parlor then conveniently dropping dead to get out of the way, then giving her blessing to the pair via ouiji board(!) no less, only to top it all off with her father inexplicably leaving his entire vast fortune to the pair thus rescuing the entire Crawley way of life for the 'other woman' (including a letter soothing the unfaithful betrothed's conscience so that he would take the money to save said estate just as the Crawley wanted.)

Edited September 29, 2015 by shipperx

[Starchild]

I may be heartless but I feel that Mrs. Drewe's attachment to Marigold is excessive. She didn't have the girl with her that long did she?

 

Did I miss the reason that Anna is keeping the cervical stitch option a secret from her husband? Or is this just more unnecessary drama?

[Helena Dax]

I love the subplot  about the wedding. I understand why Mrs. Hugues doesn't want to get married  at Downton, but I  understand why Carson wants. He feels that's  his home too. And they're very cute together.

 

Nice to see a smiling Anna! Her scenes with lady Mary were very cute. I guess her scenes with Mr. Bates were cute too, but I  just can't look at them  anymore.

 

Re: Marigold. Thing is, I think everyone was acting on  their best intentions. I can't blame Mrs. Drewe because I understand why she sees Marigold as  her daughter and I can't blame Edith. But of course, at the end, the  ones paying the price are the farmers. The farmers and their kind  are always the ones paying  the price; like Daisy says, it's the system.

 

I  don't know what's going on with Thomas, really. 

 

Loved how  useless  Robert was in this episode. Nobody cares about his opinions anymore.

[ZoloftBlob]

6 minutes ago

 

I may be heartless but I feel that Mrs. Drewe's attachment to Marigold is excessive. She didn't have the girl with her that long did she?

 

Per Wikipedia Edith got the kid from the Swiss couple in "Summer 1923" and then takes the kid from the Drewes in "1924" in Episode six. Episode four of season five is labeled May 1924 and the events of Episode six seemed a few months later so it appears that Mrs. Drewe had Marigold for about a year. That is long enough to form an attachment especially when it was presented to Mrs. Drewe as "this is a child of a friend who died and we're raising her as our own" and not as a short term thing.

[Epeolatrix]

Did I miss the reason that Anna is keeping the cervical stitch option a secret from her husband?

 

She said that she didn't want to get his hopes up, in case this didn't work.

[shipperx]

Per Wikipedia Edith got the kid from the Swiss couple in "Summer 1923" and then takes the kid from the Drewes in "1924" in Episode six. Episode four of season five is labeled May 1924 and the events of Episode six seemed a few months later so it appears that Mrs. Drewe had Marigold for about a year. That is long enough to form an attachment especially when it was presented to Mrs. Drewe as "this is a child of a friend who died and we're raising her as our own" and not as a short term thing.

No doubt it is time enough to bond.

But there's always been a whiff of desperation in Mrs Crewe's reactions that has seemed odd in context. She wasn't a woman desperate to adopt or seeking to adopt. It wasn't a goal or a thing to be longed for. She was a mother of four of her own children who was having to housewife on a small farm before the times of appliances whose husband arrived with a child he said belonged to a friend she never knew. Pragmatically speaking, that's a LOT of work for one woman. An unsought and unanticipated 5th child in addition to her four is a lot to handle. Yes, she can certainly love more than four children. Yes, she can love her adopted child. There's no cause to weigh adopted against biologically hers. She can still hold Marigold incredibly dear. But... Considering that Edith placed the child there to be close to her, Edith was doing the benefactress thing giving money for Marigold's future and visiting the child from almost day 1.

There was not a single instance of Mrs Drewe being anything more than grudgingly civil (and barely that) from the very beginning ...to what was essentially the daughter of her husband's employer. It was oddly counterproductive for her to reject Edith's offer of financing a future for Marigold when denying that financial interest meant that rather than their income covering 4 children with Edith aiding the finances of the 5th foundling's future, they would have to cover the finances of their four AND the foundling, while directly barring the door to --and thus offending--the daughter of her husband's boss.

It's laudable to bond with the child but the speed of her possessiveness and the hints of desperation about it from almost day 1 always made me wonder. Had she lost a child? Had she had a recent miscarriage? She wasn't a childless woman who had sought out or had longed for adoption. She already had four children and her husband indepentedly insta-produced another saying someone she never even knew thought they should raise it. Not only was there never a hint of ambivalence in her behavior, but she has prioritized the new child to the detriment of her other children's potential finances by rejecting outside aid for the one they were taking in... and that was from very early on, not even including her choices rejecting the bosses daughter by barring her from the house.

And once the fostering was revealed to her, she went directly to Cora about the scandal.

Mrs. Drewe was lucky it was Cora, many a society matron would have had the Drewe family discredited simply to bury the scandal quite deep, ensuring that no one would listen to 'that farmer', because that's the way aristocrats often roll. Luckily, Cora is anything but ruthless... but Mrs Drewe didn't know Cora. She didnt know that Cora would not behave that way, but she risked it.

So even knowing the truth re Marigold's maternity, Mrs Drewe was willing to take risks on...at best the infinitely faint hope that Cora would ...what? Browbeat her daughter into giving up her child to Mrs Drewe? Or was it for the purpose of revenge? Or was it sheer angst or hysteria, that she had no goal but wanted to vent by bringing the whole thing to her husband's boss's attention (because what harm could come by exposing the boss to scandal?)

Mrs. Drewe clearly cares for Marigold. And yes a year us more than enough time to bond. She deserves compassion. But her reactions from almost day one have had hints of desperation, defensiveness, and in regards to family finances counterproductiveness bordering on recklessness with regards to the farm and Mr Drewe's employment, even before this incident.

She was treated unfairly. Undoubtedly true. But she's also seemed curiously high strung from the beginning.

Edited September 29, 2015 by shipperx

[ZoloftBlob]

I suppose for me the question is, if Edith had just gone along with the plan that Edith herself proposed, would Mrs, Drewe be vilified and out of a home over her affection for her adopted daughter?

 

Eta - I get Edith's motivation, I really do,  but seriously at the end of the day, Mr. Drewe's decision to help Edith hide her illegitimate child has completely destroyed the Drewe family. Impoverished families with no land and no work weren't handed tea and cookies by the gentry....

 

But she's also seemed curiously high strung from the beginning.

And I concede I am being snarky but really, maybe Edith should have picked better parents for her child when she was dumping the kid off with someone local? I mean really.... Wasn't it Edith's job to vet how psychotic her daughter's pretend parents were?

Edited September 29, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[Avaleigh]

I've sided with Violet over several issues but I'm definitely on Team Isobel when it comes to the hospital issue.

 

I don't get Mrs. Hughes' resistance to having their wedding at the Abbey. Who says that she can't choose the sorts of flowers that she wants? I certainly wouldn't want to have my wedding at a schoolyard and if she hates Downton so much it's really sad that she's spent so much of her life there working for people she doesn't particularly care for. At least Carson likes the people he works for and likes living in Downton. Sometimes Mrs. Hughes says things that make me think that she regrets most of her life. Meanwhile I don't believe for a moment that she thinks Carson is going to run all over her for the duration of their marriage. She's acting like this wedding is the only thing that she's going to be able to weigh in on once they're wed and I think that if she really believed that to be the case that she wouldn't be marrying him. So why can't they decide together on the venue?

 

Carson's point that they don't have family or friends or deep ties to any place but Downton make total sense to me.

 

I've never warmed to Thomas but damn it if I didn't feel sorry for him during that interview. That guy questioning his marital status was just mean spirited. He was so extra with rubbing it in that he *knows* that I felt disgusted and wanted to defend Thomas. It's crazy how his job suddenly looks so cushy once he realizes what the alternatives are.

 

I hope that Cora works it out for Mr Mason.

 

It was cruel of Edith - but as MSterling wrote, Mrs. Drewe kidnapped Marigold! If that had been my daughter, I don't think I would have been as forgiving as some of you guys here. It really is a desperate situation, but I'm sorry; what mrs. Drewe did was bonkers. I kept thinking during the whole episode that she looked completely unhinged, and the way she behaved made me think that we would learn that there was something not quite right in her brain. Because normal people don't kidnap children, no matter how much they love them. A normal mrs. Drewe would not have gone up to speak with Cora, she would have spoken to Edith. She would have told her, how much she loved the little girl and she wold have realised that Edith loved her just as much. I'm sorry, but I got the creepy crawly feeling from that woman.

 

Will wonders never cease? I liked Mary in this episode (except for the whole "you'll have your wedding here, and that's final!" - way to be tonedeaf, Mary!)

The problem for me with Edith is that she clearly doesn't give a damn about Mrs. Drewe's feelings. It isn't that Mrs. Drewe isn't 100% wrong for kidnapping Marigold. She is. I understand why the Drewes need to go even though they were used horribly by Edith. My thing is that Edith hasn't once had compassion for Mrs. Drewe. She doesn't feel guilt over the long term deception that they played on that woman. She doesn't care that Mrs. Drewe felt as betrayed as though her husband had been having an affair. She doesn't give a fig that she completely disrupted this woman's life emotionally and thinks that all should be well because she threw a bit of money at the problem. 

 

Edith has always been selfish. From the first season she has always been a very self centered woe as me woman and this season so far hasn't changed my opinion at all. Of course the guy at the newspaper is out to get her. Edith always thinks that there is somebody out to persecute her and the excuse that her parents have always treated her like crap just doesn't fly with me when it comes to her insensitivity and overall self pitying attitude. 

Edited September 29, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Badger]

FWIW, Thomas doesn't want to leave because the job is too hard.  He wants to leave because he's gotten it into his head that he's going to be fired anyway, and he wants to have something lined up when that happens. But ITA the interview showed just how good a set up he has at Downton.

[saki]

I suppose for me the question is, if Edith had just gone along with the plan that Edith herself proposed, would Mrs, Drewe be vilified and out of a home over her affection for her adopted daughter?

 

Eta - I get Edith's motivation, I really do,  but seriously at the end of the day, Mr. Drewe's decision to help Edith hide her illegitimate child has completely destroyed the Drewe family. Impoverished families with no land and no work weren't handed tea and cookies by the gentry....

If it had been left to Mary and Tom, the Drewes would never have been allowed to take on the tenancy in the first place, if you want to go back further...

 

I do have sympathy for the Drewes - but I also have sympathy for Edith.  I feel like this is just one of those situations.  I don't really see what Edith could do at this point - I don't exactly think an apology to Mrs Drewe is at all pointful, I don't think that it would help Mrs Drewe in the slightest.  I think most women in Mrs Drewe's position would be sad but would be getting on with their busy life with four kids, farm to help run, as I said earlier, I don't think Edith could have predicted this level of reaction.  

 

On another note, why is Carson so hostile to Thomas this season?

[MissLucas]

My sympathy for Edith has dried up - as I said she's done this twice with little consideration for the people involved. Has she ever made sure Mrs Drewe was okay afterwards? Obviously not by going to check on her herself but she could have asked Cora or Downton's invisible vicar to do so. She yanked the girl away and never looked back. Even now her only concern for the woman who looked after her daughter for a year is that she's removed from the scene ASAP - which is understandable, what is not understandablt though is that she does not care to get her any help. It's especially galling when you compare her behavior to Lady Mary's dealing with Anna in this episode. And let's not forget that the Drewes have other kids - Marigold's foster siblings for a year. But if those kids have a healthy mother or not is of little concern to anyone, nor how they reacted to the sudden disappearance of their foster-sister (conveniently we never get to see them anymore).

 

As for Mrs Drewe not being more welcoming to Lady Edith's visits to the farm - she probably sensed something was off and that Lady Edith showed more interest in Marigold than was normal. And she was absolutely right. Of course she could have put two and two together - but she seems like a rather naive woman. Not every farmer's wife would have bought the husband's story about Marigold to begin with.

 

Also Edith finally telling the truth to Mary could have prevented a lot of drama. It's clear that seeing Marigold triggered Mrs Drewe (though in the long term they can of course not prevent her from seeing the girl occasionally). This whole 'Mary is so horrible she would use Marigold as a weapon against her sister'-angle is ridiculous. And I say that as someone who does not like Lady Mary. In what way could Mary use the girl against her sister? They are currently not competing for the same man's affections (please God, no!) nor for Downton's management. Maybe Mary would blackmail Edith to finally move to London? In which case all I can say is: go Mary!

 

The show has already done a plot about the plight of single mothers with Ethel and that was a lot more convincing and heart-breaking. Ethel could not find any work, had to prostitute herself and in the end was forced to hand over her son to his grandparents.

 

I wish they had used Edith's motherhood for some interesting character growth. As something that initially frightened her and then empowered her to finally claim her own life. I wanted her to grasp the escape from Downton that was offered to her on a silver-platter, run her newspaper from her own office, yell at macho publishers, laugh at her pig-rearing sister, throw wonderful parties in her flat (when Marigold visits the grandparents) and give Phryne  Fisher some competition when it comes to the title 'most fabulous flapper on tv'. And instead I got this sorry mess of a privileged woman who continues to play the victim whilst wrecking havoc on others lifes.

[Andorra]

I agree with those who have no sympathy for Edith any more. I was one of her biggest defenders, but what really puts me off her is her lack of feeling for the Drewes. She might not be able to do much to help them, but the least she could do is show some compassion!! 

No, all she thinks about is "get them away from my daughter". That's what disgusts me and what made me think about her character in the past. Has there ever been one time when Edith was thinking about others first? I can't remember. 

[ZoloftBlob]

On another note, why is Carson so hostile to Thomas this season?

 

Because Carson has always been a petty ball buster  to the staff he considers shit under his shoes?

 

I've never been a huge Carson fan - and Thomas is hardly an angel - but really, if Thomas is that much of a thorn in his side then find a reason to fire him and be done with it. Likewise if he doesn't like Moseley, then why hire Moseley just to torment Moseley? Carson gets his petty jollies out of tormenting the underlings with his power and its a rare character trait in that its consistent hru all the seasons.

[Andorra]

 

Carson gets his petty jollies out of tormenting the underlings with his power and its a rare character trait in that its consistent hru all the seasons.

 

Exactly. That's why I never understood why he seems to be seen as a "grumpy man with a golden heart" in the fandom or the press. To me he has never shown any heart at all, except when it comes to Mary or to Mrs Hughes. Aside from that he completely lacks feeling. He felt no compassion for Tom when he lost his wife, he felt  no compassion for Molesley when he lost his place because of Matthew's death, he had no compassion for his old friend Charlie, he treats Molesley like dirt, Jimmy like dirt and Thomas like dirt and he was ready to fire Daisy (who worked at the Abbey since she was 12) in the last episode just because of that outburst at the auction. 

[ZoloftBlob]

I mostly remember him bitching mightily about Matthew, the heir, having the audacity to bring Lavinia Swire, his then fiance, around, as though Matthew had to clear who he married thru Carson (and as though *Mary* wasn't the slightest bit responsible for the whole mess). I always assumed that had Matthew married Lavinia, the first act of the new Countess Grantham would be to fire the damn butler that openly hated her.