S03.E06: Meet The In-Laws

[AussieBabe]

Add me to the list who doesn't think Sam lives at their marital home. Another clue was when she was talking this past episode, and she was standing in her bedroom. It might be editing, but it seemed off. It was the scene before/after the one where she got out of the bed with the charger less phone on the nightstand.

I can't figure Ashley's end goal out. Why would you agree to a stressful process like this while in the middle of school/shortly before finals? Nursing school breaks some of the strongest people, so I can't figure that out.

I truly wish they had recruited new experts in the Atlanta area who could be there and not have to fly in once or twice. Aside from that Dr. C and Dr. L are awful and still won't take accountability for the bomb that was last season. I don't mind Pepper and the spiritual advisor. Yes, Skype and iChat are perfectly lovely, but sometimes face to face interaction is best. If I was in a room with David and Ashley, the body language and her using the dog as a buffer would scream volumes.

I have to wonder how in the hell did Sam and Ashley make the cut. I'm wondering about Vanessa and where the issues with her father stem from. I know she said her parents didn't divorce until she was in university and it was a contentious divorce, so were they separated for years? What was her home life like? Why wasn't he at her wedding? What shaped her and made her develop all these trust issues? Obviously Cilona's questionnaire is some bull because. Maybe I'm just inquisitive but I feel like experiences in life shape you. Ashley was in a dead end relationship that went nowhere. Even if she's not attracted to David, what's the harm in being friendly and talking to him? I'm sorry but she has the social and communication skills of a lump of coal. And it's only with David. Dr. Pepper is a stranger and his mum is technically a stranger but she was warmer to them than she's ever been towards him.

And Sam. I'm so lost on what she wants. Neil put her in her "place" by asking her not to call him a pussy, and she stormed off to lick her wounds and call her daddy. Sam seems like the type to have punched you in the arm and pushed you in the sand in school to show that she liked you. She would wear me out and drain me.

I don't know if any of these couples will make it but somebody must have because they are casting for Miami. I can't see the network renewing the series if none of these couples made it.

It would be interesting to watch these couples in a Big Brother type setting.

[Soup333]

I find Ashley and David to be the most interesting couple. She's totally playing the clueless innocent role but her superpower is that she uses her coldness to control relationships. Although she puts that blank look on her face, you can tell that she's taking in everything that David says. As soon as she's away from David, she snaps back into her normal self and talks. When she was with his mother, she gave a blow by blow of what happened when Dave blew up and she was semi-animated. She also said when she talks about her husband at work, she calls him David. Why can't we see those conversations? I bet Ashley is telling someone all of her business. It appears to me that she doesn't put on that blank facade with anyone but David, which leads me to believe she likes David (at least a little) and this is how she acts when she's fighting vulnerability in a relationship.

Not to sound like a PUA, but she also flips her hair when she's with him, which is a sign of interest/flirting. She especially does this when her hair is straight. I noticed she did it on the honeymoon and she was doing it when she talked to him in bed this episode.

My read on Ashley is that she has an extremely high wall because behind that she has no defenses. She's doing everything she can to collect info on David before she lets him in because she has no idea how to regulate a relationship after that point. This is a woman who stayed in a relationship for 9 years and it went nowhere. She probably wishes she saw the signs in the beginning because once she was in, she was all in with her ex. I think it's wrong if she's making David pay for the sins of her ex. I also think 6 weeks is too short of a time for anyone to try to prove to Ashley that they're a good guy. She won't believe it. I also don't think the experts should pair anyone with a wounded person who controls the relationship by withholding attention and affection.

The experts do seem to be aware of Ashley's issues because in this episode they seemed to advise David that he was there to push or challenge her so he could break down her walls. Insane. Also, I think the editors are only showing us part of their relationship so they can act like in the last 2 episodes they opened up and conquered their fears to get closer to finding love, barf.

 

Who has time for that shit? She's not being courted, she married this dude. I'm not saying you're wrong, but even if she were only dating him, how long would he be expected to put up with absolutely no hint of affection? He has to pull conversation out of her. She doesn't seem to even want him around her. I'd have given up a long time ago. 

[Jax7917]

Not sure why David hasn't asked this question to Ashley yet: " why would you sign up for this experiment if you intend to be a cold witch with a lack of personality the entire time?" I honestly think if he was more direct and intolerant of her, she would respond in a different way. Why is he saying in the talking heads that shes the best wife in the world? Yes, David. If best means worst

[Palomar]

Maybe Ashley is one of those women who doesn't like it when a guy is nice to her and only likes a guy that treats her badly or is indifferent.  I can't figure out if she has low self esteem or the opposite....that she thinks she is too good for a guy like David (even to give him a chance).  It really would be interesting to know what happened with her long term relationship. 

[lids]

Who has time for that shit? She's not being courted, she married this dude. I'm not saying you're wrong, but even if she were only dating him, how long would he be expected to put up with absolutely no hint of affection? He has to pull conversation out of her. She doesn't seem to even want him around her. I'd have given up a long time ago.

I assume this is why they picked David for Ashley. David said himself that he is the kind of guy that when his friends tell him to give up because the girl is not interested, he just keeps trying. Even Ashley commented that he and his family are the most positive people she's ever met.

David is a salesman and is used to dealing with difficult people but not letting their objections deter him from reaching his goal. He apparently has healthy self esteem because a normal/average guy would have closed off and protected his ego by now. David acts like he has no ego. Every time he wants something, she says no and he swallows his pride and let's it go. He wanted the bathroom without the broken toilet but when she wanted it, he gave it to her. He wants to sleep; she wants to study in the bed. He gets up and sleeps on the couch. She's testing him but it just appears that he is winning because she's gonna run out of tests.

I noticed that Ashley's key word is "stranger" and Sam's key word is "masculine." They just use those as diversionary topics to avoid discussing whatever they're really insecure about.

Eta: There was that scene where Neil explained to Dr. Pepper that Sam is really into the Woman - feminine housewife, Men - masculine breadwinner ideals. Dr. Pepper said, "You would think she wouldn't feel that way based on her career path." I took Dr. Pepper as being facetious there because after they've interviewed Sam for a million hours they probably know what Sam's views on gender roles are. (But you never know with these experts.)

I think Dr. Pepper knows that Sam is blowing smoke and is just letting her tantrum herself out. It's like a child who keeps arguing with you that they're not sleepy. It's best to just say "oh ok" and hum quietly until you turn around and see they've fallen fast asleep. When she asked Sam straight out what she thought the role of a wife was, Sam skirted the issue and used it as another chance to disparage Neil. As long as Sam can keep pointing out Neil's clammy hands and backpack, she never has to deal with her real issues but eventually she will stop doing that (hopefully).

Edited January 7, 2016 by lids

[cpcathy]

Frankly, this show is a crash course in psychology. I've taken enough psyche in college to know that Sam is projecting her issues onto Neil with the whole "you're one way on camera, etc" argument. She isn't even convincing herself as she's saying it!

 

It turns out I did not delete this episode, it was the last one, and I watched David's trantrum over his dad. Wow, that looked.....fake. Either REALLY fake and producer-induced or he is a huge baby. I'll say it again, if he is that broken up twenty years later, he does need to see someone. I think therapy gets demonized, and people seem to think anyone who seeks out a therapist is crazy, but talking out things you've been holding onto for a long time can help sometimes. You don't need to be Woody Allen and be in anaysis all your life, but a couple of sessions can help sometimes.

[girlplease]

I kind of think they have the same issue, in a way - neither knows when to call it quits. David keeps on selling even though no one's buying, and Ashley stayed in a relationship for nine years that apparently went nowhere. They both seem to have an inability to read the opposite sex and not enough oomph to break those patterns.

[Neurochick]

The problem with this show as I see it is you don't partner people up so they can "heal each other's wounds."  That's fucked up on many levels and most psychologists will tell you that straight up.

 

Vanessa should have been matched with someone like David,  why?  Because both of them want to be married, both of them want to find love.  

 

Even thought I think Vanessa is reading too much of Tres getting drunk, there is another issue when it comes to Tres, and this might be really what's bothering Vanessa, the truth is that there aren't many black men who are doing well in life, here is part of my post on forum for the show, #Black Love:  

 

...there are very few black men today who are a) doing well in life (no prison time, no babymamas, and have real jobs) and b) actually want to date AND MARRY black women.  More black men marry women of other races than black women (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/06/12/interracial-marriage-who-is-marrying-out/), so that means there are less black men for these women to date and marry, if they want to date and marry black men.

 

There lies the dilemma.  Tres is in demand, he doesn't have to commit to anybody now.  Vanessa wants to get married; she needs to be with a man who wants to get married, not a guy who can't decide if he wants to play or not. 

 

Just another opinion.

[qtpye]

...

there are very few black men today who are a) doing well in life (no prison time, no babymamas, and have real jobs) and b) actually want to date AND MARRY black women.  More black men marry women of other races than black women (http://www.pewresear...s-marrying-out/), so that means there are less black men for these women to date and marry, if they want to date and marry black men.

 

 

 

Yeah, Vanessa said she dated men of other races, but I bet in the perfect picture in her mind she still wants black man to be her husband.

 

It does feel like Vanessa is in this for real, but Tre is just having fun.  I hope they work.  They are the front running couple as Vanessa was the only bride that did not want to vomit at the sight of her groom during the weddings.

[okerry]

The goal of this show is not to create marriages. It's to create ratings. The matchmakers skills are being used to put together couples that cause drama. I absolutely believe that they "match" one or two couples each year, that will create drama and ratings.  And you are right,Yes, it's unethical, but I believe they are doing exactly what they were hired to do.

ITA with you - yet the showrunners don't seem to realize that the audience for MAFS does NOT want to see failures. Drama along the way is fine, of course, but we want to see people end up happily ever after - at least, for now ;)

 

We already know that relationships fail badly and suck. We don't need to invest an hour or more of TV every week to learn that. We'd like to see couples who actually make it, and maybe learn something from them about how it's done. 

 

Seriously, I am a romance writer. Lots of paperbacks and Kindle books. And you cannot market a story as a "romance" unless it has a happy ending. Readers want to see a great couple meet, go through a lot of drama along the way, solve the problems, and end up together.

 

They don't want to read about failures. We all have that already in everyday life. They want to read about actual romantic success, which so many will never have themselves. The audience for MAFS is exactly the same way.

[moonxyz]

There lies the dilemma.  Tres is in demand, he doesn't have to commit to anybody now.  Vanessa wants to get married; she needs to be with a man who wants to get married, not a guy who can't decide if he wants to play or not. 

 

I completely agree. And due to this, I believe that he came on this show to be on TV. Gain social media likes or something stupid like that. This guy is tall, cute, employed, and sociable. Women, black or any other ethnicity would only dream of being married to him, yet he comes on this show to find a wife? No dude. I see you. David and Neil have valid reasons to be here, but this is not the case for Tres.

 

Many posters are all over the Sam/Neil; David/Ashley pairings, but Tres and Vanessa as a couple seem functional on the surface but this pairing is also a disaster. They are the ones that are most likely to have issues in the long run if they do decide to stay together. Simple things like not getting passed out drunk and not partying seem to be like Herculean tasks for Tres which warrant him receiving a cookie as a reward. Definitely not the mindset of someone that is mature and mentally prepared for the married life. I bet he will get tired of all this effort of restraining himself as soon as the cameras stop rolling.

[seasick]

ITA.  But it's such a phony relationship on Tres part that I don't think there's much to discuss or speculate upon. .   I'm 100% convinced he didn't do it because he wanted to get married.

 

The fact that there is little struggle between the two says to me that he's keeping things copacetic until the end.

 

He may pull his crap closer to the end so that she asks for the divorce instead of him,  but if he thinks there may be some after-show opportunities he'll try to keep it together till the end.  That's my take on them.  No chance.

Edited January 7, 2016 by seasick

[henrysmom]

I feel really sorry for Vanessa because I think of all six participants, she is the only one who really went into this wanting to find a life partner to love (an actual real marriage).  

Tres I think is in it for the publicity.  I think Neil and David just want to be married--the person doesn't matter so much.  I think Sam thought this might be the springboard to her own show/fifteen minutes of fame.  No clue what Ashley wanted.  The best I can come up with is that she rebounded from her nine year relationship and didn't realize what she was getting into until it was too late to back out.

[izabella]

These so-called experts are idiots.  Yes, it's true, opposites can complement each other, and opposites can attract, but the key word is attract.  People who are attracted to each other FIRST are sometimes compelled by that attraction to step out of their comfort zone, but it doesn't work if you just throw those people together and they are NOT attracted.  They just burrow deeper into their shell if they are not attracted, and burrow further the more you try to engage with them.  

 

It's not possible for David to engage with Ashley since she has pretty much shut down all conversation with him.  "What did you think of the meeting with Dr. Pepper?"  "Ummmmm, it went well."  Yeah, ok.  How about something like, "Well, she recommended we try touching more, so maybe you can touch my elbow tomorrow."  Is she so stupid she can't formulate a thought?

 

Sam and those Lena Dunham shorts and tops....Sam, they don't look good on Lena Dunham either, so stop thinking that's a good look for you.

 

Vanessa, I know you had sex and were maybe hoping Tres would be a changed man after that, but you know it takes a hella more than sex to turn a guy from a party guy to a family guy.

[CPA Carol]

I had my ah ha moment on the Vanessa and Tres pairing. Jack S in the comments indicated there was another AA man for Vanessa who backed out. The producers knowing how great Vanessa is (she is a very together and beautiful woman) convince Tres to be on the show. During the honeymoon, Vanessa finds out that he was kind of talked into the show which is why she is questioning if he really wanted to be married. And the video chat with Dr C makes more sense now, too. I thought he being so upset was an overreaction but now upon further review, I think Tres told her that he was the back up guy and she was devastated that he was a reluctant groom. Thus her reaction which I totally understand.

Very few adult professional women find falling down drunk evenings to be acceptable. Especially for Vanessa who to me, is the most sincere of the women this season.

I feel for Vanessa - I hope the experts didn't do what I think they did

[cpcathy]

Maybe we should have been suspicious when giving his reason for wanting to do "the process," Tres said, "all my friends are married." Uh, terrible reason, Tres, even if it's real!

[Gigi43]

The problem with this show as I see it is you don't partner people up so they can "heal each other's wounds."  That's fucked up on many levels and most psychologists will tell you that straight up.

 

Vanessa should have been matched with someone like David,  why?  Because both of them want to be married, both of them want to find love.

 

And yet, every season it seems that is key parts of these relationships! David is suppose to "help" Ashely... what does David get out of that? Like I said in my last post I only saw half the episode but everything I did see from the "Experts" were David needing to do (whatever) for Ashley... nothing about what he deserves, what she should put more effort into, etc. Last season Davina was supposed to be good for poor bullied Sean and we all know how that Sean Show went. Doug would make Jamie feel secure because he's a good guy. With a couple like Vaughn and Monet, they were very different but I can understand the thinking that they'd "balance" each other, even if I don't agree (and clearly neither did they) than the idea that one had to help the other; neither had a level of underlining "issues" as the others mentioned.

 

Aside from the insanity of Jessica may be being able to "change" Ryan D, didn't one of the experts say that Ryan and Jessica were paired partly because they looked good together? Terrible to say, but, I think it's very possible Tres and Vanessa were paired because of their race. Vanessa and David could actually be an interesting match. I've thought about in the past if any of these people watch the show, see some of the other prospects, and wonder why they weren't matched with said person or find themselves liking someone... could be interesting if a couple ever emerges from this show after the fact on their own originally coming from different matches.  

Edited January 7, 2016 by Gigi43

[Kiss my mutt]

At first, I got Ashley because I could relate to her being an introvert but she just comes across as being unkind. She needs to get over herself and always focusing on how she is feeling. Frankly, she shouldn't be on the show. I'd like to know more about this 9 year relationship. I think a lot of women would pull the plug if they weren't married before that.

I can understand her reaction to David as I wouldn't find him appealing but she could have a little more team spirit about this. David did not do himself any favors by having his mom show up with a box of videos and stacks of photo albums of his dad. It seems a bit over the top coupled with his reaction earlier. I'm not sure I see Ashley in a helping profession. She seems really freaked out by people's vulnerability. I think David needs to pull back and give her a chance. That's where he's gone wrong in the past by holding on too fast and too hard.

I was uncomfortable too with Tres' father hovering over Vanessa in the bedroom and then hugging her. I'm sure it was nothing and just where the crew wanted to film to get an aside. But, um, no. In real life it would feel funky to me. Tres' excuse that he hadn't gone out and got drunk in two weeks seems a bit paltry and I can see how Vanessa would see this as a red flag considering everything else. I wonder who the guy they originally picked for her was and what happened. I bet he's having second though after seeing Vanessa on tv. She and her sister are very lovely.

I've been trying to figure out what it is about Neil's look that just bugs me. The only part of his face that animates when he talks is his mouth. No forehead or eye movement. It's like a puppet.

[moonxyz]

I had my ah ha moment on the Vanessa and Tres pairing. Jack S in the comments indicated there was another AA man for Vanessa who backed out. The producers knowing how great Vanessa is (she is a very together and beautiful woman) convince Tres to be on the show. During the honeymoon, Vanessa finds out that he was kind of talked into the show which is why she is questioning if he really wanted to be married. And the video chat with Dr C makes more sense now, too. I thought he being so upset was an overreaction but now upon further review, I think Tres told her that he was the back up guy and she was devastated that he was a reluctant groom. Thus her reaction which I totally understand.

Very few adult professional women find falling down drunk evenings to be acceptable. Especially for Vanessa who to me, is the most sincere of the women this season.

I feel for Vanessa - I hope the experts didn't do what I think they did

 

I too feel for her. Her comments about him not being ready and not wanting to be married are valid as fuck. She got set up. I think the producers may have felt that they needed an AA couple since they were in Atlanta and Vanessa is unfortunately the sacrificial lamb in this charade.

 

I also feel that Tres is being edited in a positive light and Vanessa edited as the nagging wife. Fortunately, some of us are able read between the lines. She has stated on twitter that there is a lot not being shown. I bet they don't want their chosen one Tres to be portrayed as the dud that he is.

[Evil Queen]

Eta: There was that scene where Neil explained to Dr. Pepper that Sam is really into the Woman - feminine housewife, Men - masculine breadwinner ideals. Dr. Pepper said, "You would think she wouldn't feel that way based on her career path." I took Dr. Pepper as being facetious there because after they've interviewed Sam for a million hours they probably know what Sam's views on gender roles are. (But you never know with these experts.)

I think Dr. Pepper knows that Sam is blowing smoke and is just letting her tantrum herself out. It's like a child who keeps arguing with you that they're not sleepy. It's best to just say "oh ok" and hum quietly until you turn around and see they've fallen fast asleep. When she asked Sam straight out what she thought the role of a wife was, Sam skirted the issue and used it as another chance to disparage Neil. As long as Sam can keep pointing out Neil's clammy hands and backpack, she never has to deal with her real issues but eventually she will stop doing that (hopefully).

 

It came off to me as Dr. Pepper was surprised on Sam's views because she gave them a different answer on what she wanted in a man and marriage. While now its he needs to do more than she does and put in way more. She is just full of crap IMO and no matter what if she got what she keeps talking about she would still be the way she is then claim she wanted a man that was like Neil. With someone like her it will always be something with the other person that is wrong and never herself. She to me has a narcissistic personality disorder..among other things. I've been there and done that with my mom and a few others in the past. It wears you down so badly that you just shut down. Those kind of people you have to cut from your life or it will destroy you in the end. Dr. Pepper should have called her out on putting Neil down during the honeymoon and why would she do it. There is no excuse for how she acted during the wedding and honeymoon at all....and after. Honestly after hearing it from Neil that it went on, she should have said there is a major issue here and we need to get you out of this situation. 

  The same thing with David and Ashley...why is it him being told to do everything? She needs to be told to get her butt in gear and put into the marriage or be asked if she wants to be done now. These experts are pathetic and no more harm then any good at all. Question her on what is wrong with her in opening up more and talking more...being touchy. Yet David gets told to try and try and as he does is coming off like he is desperate and needy which he is just trying to get something out of her. 

 

 

The problem with this show as I see it is you don't partner people up so they can "heal each other's wounds."  That's fucked up on many levels and most psychologists will tell you that straight up.

 

 

Agree 100% with this. It would have been interesting to see how it would have been if David and Vanessa had been matched? 

 

I completely agree. And due to this, I believe that he came on this show to be on TV. Gain social media likes or something stupid like that. This guy is tall, cute, employed, and sociable. Women, black or any other ethnicity would only dream of being married to him, yet he comes on this show to find a wife? No dude. I see you. David and Neil have valid reasons to be here, but this is not the case for Tres.

 

Many posters are all over the Sam/Neil; David/Ashley pairings, but Tres and Vanessa as a couple seem functional on the surface but this pairing is also a disaster. They are the ones that are most likely to have issues in the long run if they do decide to stay together. Simple things like not getting passed out drunk and not partying seem to be like Herculean tasks for Tres which warrant him receiving a cookie as a reward. Definitely not the mindset of someone that is mature and mentally prepared for the married life. I bet he will get tired of all this effort of restraining himself as soon as the cameras stop rolling.

 

I have said from the get go that Tres is not good. He just wants to play around and party it up. The more and more that comes out the more and more Vanessa shouldn't trust him. I could totally see him agree to do this thinking not only will he get laid but maybe something more from TV will come his way....or more girls.

[Soup333]

It came off to me as Dr. Pepper was surprised on Sam's views because she gave them a different answer on what she wanted in a man and marriage. While now its he needs to do more than she does and put in way more. She is just full of crap IMO and no matter what if she got what she keeps talking about she would still be the way she is then claim she wanted a man that was like Neil. With someone like her it will always be something with the other person that is wrong and never herself. She to me has a narcissistic personality disorder..among other things. I've been there and done that with my mom and a few others in the past. It wears you down so badly that you just shut down. Those kind of people you have to cut from your life or it will destroy you in the end. Dr. Pepper should have called her out on putting Neil down during the honeymoon and why would she do it. There is no excuse for how she acted during the wedding and honeymoon at all....and after. Honestly after hearing it from Neil that it went on, she should have said there is a major issue here and we need to get you out of this situation. 

 

ITA. One of the sneaky things about those kinds of people are how they can flip it around when there are other people there. She's the victim suddenly when he called her out on the honeymoon. She suddenly wants a dominant man in front of Dr. Pepper because she knows Neil is not that man and it's yet another way to get a dig in on him. I would bet my last dollar she never mentioned that in any interview the the "experts" had with her. I don't even think they are that clueless to stick her with Neil if she made a dominant man a dealbreaker. Bitch is crazy. #FreeNeil

[DangerousMinds]

Re: Vanessa and Tres.

 

IMO her issue is not that he went out to get drinks. The issue here is that he went out and got shitfaced like an immature boy. Also, I get the feeling that he never called to check up on her. Hence she doesn't feel like she can depend on him.

 

Vanessa saw the red flags when she found out that he was recruited by production and that he had a wild past. Still she gave him a chnace and decided to judge him through his actions. And she didn't have to wait long for his actions to prove that she was right in the first place. He is an immature boy that is not ready for marriage. 

 

They felt that he was gay from the beginning, when watching episode 1. Even before he met Sam.

She needed Tres to "check up on her?" Why? They have just hung out all day. That would drive me crazy if my boyfriend did that.

[princelina]

Wouldn't it be great if David could be married from Jacklyn from last season?  They both are very lively bubbly people in sales, who are seriously looking for a relationship.

 

Also, Davina from last season would be great with Neil.  I know she only dated white men, but maybe Neil is white enough (stupid question)?  Anyway, she would be demanding he move to Manhattan and he would be like "Cool, not a big deal".

 

Also, Sean from last season needs to be hooked up with Sam.  He is Christan Grey sexual and she wants to be dominated (ugly image in my head...must drink bleach to forget).

 

I know in reality, geography would make these matches impossible, but one can dream.

I love this!  Maybe if they get through a few more seasons they could come up with their own version of Bachelor Pad to give the ones they screwed over a chance to meet.

 

I know that after last year they probably looked long and hard to find a guy or two who REALLY wanted to be married, and scored with David and Neil; I'm sure it is more difficult for a show like this to find guys than women.  Therefore, the mind boggles at the fact that Ashley and Sam were the best they could do on the women's side.  And they just make the "experts" look terrible - as if Dr. C's super-duper test couldn't discover that Sam was really really into traditional gender roles.  (Not that I believe her - but they should also have been able to tell that she's a crazypants liar :)  And stupid too - I was expecting pretty traditional gender roles when I married Mr. P, but when it turned out that he has an almost OCD-like obsession with our floors, you can all believe that the thought of never having to mop or vacuum again is not a turn-off at all!!

Edited January 8, 2016 by princelina

[still hoping]

I do feel like this could be a Joe Schmoe Show rip on David Vanessa Neil and US the audience?

Or a secret agenda = the "experts" picked 3 nice helpful caring people who were really looking for love to "work" with 3 people with problems?

[Kareem]

Gonna stick up for Tres again. Maybe he went out with a bunch of "ok buts" -- dated a lot yet felt he wasn't finding the right one. He said something to that effect somewhere along the way. He's got a job, swag, confidence and a calm, quiet demeanor when dealing with her. Nearly every discussion they have ends with a kiss. She fed the troops on Father's Day and as they were outside saying goodbye to everyone, he turned to her, kissed her and pet the dog. He holds her after dinner on the floor and while they're hanging out in the bathroom. Maybe he's got game or maybe he just gets it. I don't know that he's the brightest flare in the emergency kit but I think there's good in him. I don't fault him for being honest with her about his past because it is what it is. Re her other issue with him, she'll know soon enough whether getting bombed on Sundays is his routine. I thought her reactions on move-in day may have had more to do with moving in, planning Father's Day the following day and possibly being overwhelmed than being stressed out by him. I get that she wants to be sure but at least she's able to talk to him about her concerns. That puts her light-years ahead of the other two men who seem to be serious about this, and that says something about Tres. He has said that he wants her to know that he's listening. I dunno. Think there's hope for him. Hope so. She's worth the effort.

[kam]

Gonna stick up for Tres again. Maybe he went out with a bunch of "ok buts" -- dated a lot yet felt he wasn't finding the right one. He said something to that effect somewhere along the way. He's got a job, swag, confidence and a calm, quiet demeanor when dealing with her. Nearly every discussion they have ends with a kiss. She fed the troops on Father's Day and as they were outside saying goodbye to everyone, he turned to her, kissed her and pet the dog. He holds her after dinner on the floor and while they're hanging out in the bathroom. Maybe he's got game or maybe he just gets it. I don't know that he's the brightest flare in the emergency kit but I think there's good in him. I don't fault him for being honest with her about his past because it is what it is. Re her other issue with him, she'll know soon enough whether getting bombed on Sundays is his routine. I thought her reactions on move-in day may have had more to do with moving in, planning Father's Day the following day and possibly being overwhelmed than being stressed out by him. I get that she wants to be sure but at least she's able to talk to him about her concerns. That puts her light-years ahead of the other two men who seem to be serious about this, and that says something about Tres. He has said that he wants her to know that he's listening. I dunno. Think there's hope for him. Hope so. She's worth the effort.

I think I said this before Tres is just really immature, I don't think he's malicious. Also I don't think he's done TV before(not sure) so my flags aren't all the way up with him in regards to that. He does have a lot of growing up to do though.

[seasick]

 

 

 

Vanessa, I know you had sex and were maybe hoping Tres would be a changed man after that, but you know it takes a hella more than sex to turn a guy from a party guy to a family guy.

JMO but I think that's an unfair statement about Vanessa's motives.   She is in a no-win situation.  If she refuses to have sex, then she will be viewed as 'not trusting', 'cold', and 'trying to look for red flags'. like Dr. Cilona suggested.  

 

I know Vanessa instinctively believes Tres is not there because he wanted to get married.  But she has little to hang her hat on with his actions so far (except now, the drunk night) .  I think she looks rather disgusted and defeated about the match. I think like she feels like 'just another lay' and is kinda sick over it. 

 

In no way do I think Vanessa  believes that sleeping with Tres was going to transform him into a committed'husband'..  

[izabella]

JMO but I think that's an unfair statement about Vanessa's motives.   She is in a no-win situation.  If she refuses to have sex, then she will be viewed as 'not trusting', 'cold', and 'trying to look for red flags'. like Dr. Cilona suggested.  

 

I know Vanessa instinctively believes Tres is not there because he wanted to get married.  But she has little to hang her hat on with his actions so far (except now, the drunk night) .  I think she looks rather disgusted and defeated about the match. I think like she feels like 'just another lay' and is kinda sick over it. 

 

In no way do I think Vanessa  believes that sleeping with Tres was going to transform him into a committed'husband'..  

 

I agree that she didn't expect him to transform into a committed husband just because they had sex.  I think she had sex with Tres way, way too soon considering how little she does trust him.  Would she have had sex with any guy that soon if she thought the guy was a player?  Was she hoping sex would just be fun and that's it?  I don't think so.  I think she was hoping the sex would help them bond, and that bond would be a starting point from which to build trust.  Which is ass-backwards with a player.  "Players only love you when they're playing," and I think she succumbed to that and felt crushed the next day when he went off drinking, whether that was at an ordinary bar or at a strip club or Hooters or wherever.  I think she regretted opening up to him through sex when she said she felt he wasn't "reliable" code for "I gave up the booty and he still would rather be out drinking somewhere else instead of with me."

[kam]

I agree that she didn't expect him to transform into a committed husband just because they had sex. I think she had sex with Tres way, way too soon considering how little she does trust him. Would she have had sex with any guy that soon if she thought the guy was a player? Was she hoping sex would just be fun and that's it? I don't think so. I think she was hoping the sex would help them bond, and that bond would be a starting point from which to build trust. Which is ass-backwards with a player. "Players only love you when they're playing," and I think she succumbed to that and felt crushed the next day when he went off drinking, whether that was at an ordinary bar or at a strip club or Hooters or wherever. I think she regretted opening up to him through sex when she said she felt he wasn't "reliable" code for "I gave up the booty and he still would rather be out drinking somewhere else instead of with me."

or maybe she just wanted to have sex with him because it felt right?! lol she went out that day too with her sister and his sister so I don't think that's an issue.

Everytime a women decides to have sex, doesn't mean she's being used or whatever.

[izabella]

or maybe she just wanted to have sex with him because it felt right?! lol she went out that day too with her sister and his sister so I don't think that's an issue.

Everytime a women decides to have sex, doesn't mean she's being used or whatever.

 

I'm sure she got caught up in the moment and had some fun.  But I do not for one minute believe she didn't have ANY other expectations or hopes after they slept together, and that it was just fun and felt great no problem.  It felt great up until he ditched her to go drinking without her, and she realized he was still a stranger who likes to go drinking without his wife. 

[kam]

I'm sure she got caught up in the moment and had some fun. But I do not for one minute believe she didn't have ANY other expectations or hopes after they slept together, and that it was just fun and felt great no problem. It felt great up until he ditched her to go drinking without her, and she realized he was still a stranger who likes to go drinking without his wife.

I would hope she has expectations with or without that....she's legally married to him.

Also Her issue wasn't whether he went out or not because she did also. The issue is he got home before her but was too drunk to let her know he was home.

I don't think she regrets having sex with him at all.

Regardless no one wants to think they potentially married a drunk.

[butterly17]

The worst part of this season is that I don't even WANT any of the couples to make it.  They are unlikable together.   Even though after the fact we found out that Ryan R was a phony that didn't care about Jaq at all... at least we kinda had hope!  

[CPA Carol]

I would like to see three happy couples. Marriage will never be perfect but I don't see David and Ashley making it at all unless the edits are making her appear cold and uncaring. Parents weighing in seems ridiculous so they need to stop. This is a reality show and does anyone really think Ashley is in true danger from "fans"?. Next season, family members will be told to not read or interact on social media.

[Sowkkat]

There's a lot of negativity around Vanessa and Tres, but I just don't see it. Tres could turn out to be a womanizer with further evidence, but have we been given that evidence yet? Do we know for sure that he went to a strip club with his dad? Ok, THAT would be a deal breaker for me on a couple of levels; a. Strip club when married, b. With your dad? That's just gross. But that's just speculation right? Maybe the crew had the night off that night so they didn't go with him to the bar for that reason, not they they weren't allowed to film at whatever place he went to. They wanted to create drama for a drama-less couple so they added ominous music when they woke up that morning, and had them re-hash it. Also, if it's not a strip club, I really can't understand Vanessa's reaction. My husband can go out drinking...again it would be weird if it were with his dad...and I'm ok with my husband passing out on occasion. She said something about how she couldn't get ahold of him if she needed something? I guess I don't expect my husband to be on a constant state of alert for me. If I have a real emergency I'll call 911. If he gets drunk and passes out weekly, ok, there's an issue.

I also found it odd that people had an issue with the conversation between Vanessa and Tres' father. I took him standing over her while she sat on the bed as respectful. He is not sitting on the bed with her, which would be weird. I just think he didn't have a chair to sit on readily, and the producers for some reason chose to film them in the bedroom.

I don't necessarily think that Tres and Vanessa are going to make it, I think they are probably just boring. Or at least so far...in comparison to the other two flaming hot messes.

ITA Ashley. Has there ever been anyone at all more introverted than her in reality TV history? She is just maddening. I can see why David is losing it.

I wonder if Sam just thought that she would come on and we would all be bowled over by her Manic Pixie Truthyness. I wonder if she got a sense of how badly she would come across once she was paired with nice Neil, so she wanted to try to bring him down with the whole lame "different person in front of the camera" paranoia. I also just see her as being self-loathing in a really defensive way. She doesn't take herself or anyone (but her dad and wax melts) seriously.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Sowkkat

[BunnySlippers]

I also found it odd that people had an issue with the conversation between Vanessa and Tres' father. I took him standing over her while she sat on the bed as respectful. He is not sitting on the bed with her, which would be weird. I just think he didn't have a chair to sit on readily, and the producers for some reason chose to film them in the bedroom.

 

 

I had the opposite feeling about Tres' father standing over Vanessa in the bedroom. He seemed to be standing too close to her, towering over her, and that didn't feel very respectful to me. I'm not sure why the producers would make them go into the bedroom to talk. There's a couch in the living room, and I think they have some chairs, too. Or they could have just talked while standing up. Unless they went into the bedroom to have a private conversation (which would later be broadcast on national TV...). Maybe it was all innocent, but I just got a bad vibe from him for some reason.

[HumblePi]

From what I've seen so far,Tres and Vanessa are the only couple that might survive. They're both attractive, rational, sensible and seem to make a great couple together. I like them both a lot. The other two couples don't stand a chance in Hell at lasting three months. Sam and Neil look like they both want to throw up just being in the same area together. Sam seems sort of 'butch' to me, and Neil is just a tad effeminate. David is trying but Ashley isn't going to even try. Is it the lighting or does Ashley have a depression on her forehead right between her eyes? I think David may also have a short fuse but he's hiding it so far.

[BBDi]

I have no idea why either Sam or Ashley went on this show. But I feel like both of them decided within hours or probably minutes of meeting their spouse that it was game over. They are just going through the motions and doing the minimum to play it out and collect their money.

Maybe they thought it was worth a roll of the device to see if they'd be matched with someone they sparked to, and that even if they didn't they'd at least walk away with some $$. It's pretty obvious that those 2 couples at least weren't living together during the 6 weeks.

I got inadvertently spoiled last night regarding one of the couples but it was nothing surprising. I think it's all pretty much there on the screen.

[Kareem]

...

I got inadvertently spoiled last night regarding one of the couples but it was nothing surprising. I think it's all pretty much there on the screen.

I would love to be inadvertently spoiled. What I find on the 'net labeled spoilers is a rehash of the last episode.

[seasick]

The only thing that would spoil this show for me at this point is to find out that any of the couples stayed together, especially Neil and Sam.

 

Neil, you may be "thrilled that Sam is in your life".. but Sam's suggestions for your 'improvement' will never end.

 

To a criticizer, there's an endless list...

[HerApronStrings]

hi, I'm new! I'm obsessed with this show-from the first season and I need an outlet. My thoughts-

1. So what if Tres had a lot of dates/fun-get it out of your system before you get married. A lot easier to be grateful for the marriage you have-if you went around the block of singlehood and realized what you're NOT missing out on. 

 

2. Agree about Sam being BSC. (bat s crazy)  She needs an assertive husband. She needs someone to call her out and hold her accountable. She does not need to run free with her crazy thoughts. She may not like him wanting to be 50/50 now-but if/when they have children-she'd find that all kinds of sexy. When I was single I always thought about who I'd want in the delivery room with me-and I'd much rather Neal than Tres. 

 

3.  OMG with the 'consummate' my marriage. Tres-how about not saying "I consummated the H out of my marriage"-his wife is a lady and would not want all of America knowing it to that extreme. So immature. If my husband even said that to a group of friends that would be the last 'consummating' that'd be going on in our bedroom.  

Edited January 9, 2016 by HerApronStrings

[ctbabe]

I got inadvertently spoiled last night regarding one of the couples but it was nothing surprising. I think it's all pretty much there on the screen.

I don't mind being spoiled too.

[Gigi43]

Tres possibly telling Vanessa he was replacement guy or just that he only came on the show when approached, could have worked in his favor with Vanessa. It shows he's more honest than the producers and the guys of season 2 who all seemed to play the game of stringing the women along that they really wanted this as much as they do.Tres isn't husband material at this point in his life, but he's good looking, not an a-hole, and I can understand Vanessa thinking his honesty could make him worthy of trying to stick this out to see if he decides he does want this relationship. Contrast with David and Ashley, Ashley seems to be doing nothing to show she gives a damn about David, she's fine with saying (at least once in an interview) he's not exactly good looking, and is leaving everyone frustrated on the topic of "Why are you on the show?" Tres kinda putting everything on the table gives Vanessa stuff to work with. It may not work out, but, it's something. I don't think she slept with him thinking sex alone would change him. I think he's an attractive guy who she's been getting to know, and is decent... I'm very conservative when it comes to people having sex, I don't believe in sleeping with everyone you have a relationship of some sort with, just the one you really see marriage with, but I know a lot of people these days disagree, even though they are married that's basically just legally at this point, essentially Vanessa and Tres have been in a relationship of some sort for 2 1/2 weeks which is longer than some people wait when they meet people. So, why not. Vanessa just seems too mature to think sex alone will change someone. The "Experts" convincing her he'll change in general is another story, which is part of why I dislike them it seems they're there to manipulate people into thinking these relationships can work out not actually helping them succeed.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Gigi43

[seasick]

Welcome apronstrings!

 

It seems the posts are divided on Tres bachelor life.  Some say bachelors will act like bachelors and it has little to do with his actions as a husband.  I have no problem with his bachelor life, but it did seem he was pretty happy being very single, so I have my doubts about his desire to settle down now.  Who knows, right?

 

I agree, I thought his selfie high-five and description of his consummation was pretty crass and immature.  I'll just say I wasn't surprised.      

[moonxyz]

Welcome apronstrings!

 

It seems the posts are divided on Tres bachelor life.  Some say bachelors will act like bachelors and it has little to do with his actions as a husband.  I have no problem with his bachelor life, but it did seem he was pretty happy being very single, so I have my doubts about his desire to settle down now.  Who knows, right?

 

I agree, I thought his selfie high-five and description of his consummation was pretty crass and immature.  I'll just say I wasn't surprised.      

 

He seems to get a pass for such things and I don't understand why. There are just too many red flags with this guy to ignore. I can see them racking up in Vanessa's brain and rightfully so. At this point, he is the one with the most bagage in the relationship.

 

And I kind of hate the fact that Vanessa will be his guinea pig to help him figure out if he's ready for a committed relationship let alone marriage. All of the contestant stated how long they have been single but I don't remember Tres talking about it. Probably one of his first monogamous relationship, is being married to stranger? How could that have a happy ending? 

[sleekandchic]

I had another thought about Sam's very obvious contempt of Neil and his very existence. She's all over the map in her criticisms of him, seeming to imply that he's too milquetoast for her? And I've read criticism that the guy is too passive, too accommodating on screen to the lunacy that is Sam.

But in this episode, Sam sarcastically told Neil that he needed to work on his "cold, clammy hands," remember? (God, I can't stand her!) Well, it's been my experience that cold, clammy hands usually translate into a person being nervous or upset, emotionally agitated or guarded.

I've said it before, Neil's still waters run deep, and, to me, Sam's comment about his cold hands proves it. On screen, he was cool and calm, trying to understand Sam's Martianese, but inside he was a bundle of nerves.

The way Sam acted on her wedding day -- long before she entered the venue and laid eyes on Neil -- was over-the-top and a clear indicator that she had no business on this show. Her hyperventilating, caged-animal pacing, sinking to her knees and talking about puking, overdelaying her entrance, etc, were melodramatic. Then when she broke into her crazy dance down the aisle was it because she hated Neil at first sight or because she's just crazy? For sure, everything about her screamed look at me, look at ME! Not a great personality trait when it's TWO people entering the unknown TOGETHER.

Neil and Sam need to split. They WILL, imo, so I hope they just bite the bullet at the six-week mark, rather than prolonging the agony.

On a lighter note, I thought it was adorable how Vanessa's little pup approached Vanessa as she was reading her phone on the bed. The dog moved in, sat, then dipped her head down over the phone as if to read along!

So many cute dogs, so many awful "humans!"

[sleekandchic]

For anyone who would like to share spoilers, there's a thread here especially for that purpose:

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/15691-season-3-social-media-spoiler-y-media-and-spoiler-y-speculation/page-39#entry1851066

Re Vanessa's disappointment: there's another, more mundane possibility, I think? Though they had a big get-together for HIS family (mainly) Tres did nothing to help, right?

Tres sauntered off to work (post-"consummation"), leaving Vanessa and her sister to accept delivery of furniture, place and decorate the house, discard huge amounts of trash, etc. (I remember Vanessa narrating that she was VERY appreciative of her sis's help.) Then it looked like Vanessa either cooked large quantities of food, or, at least, oversaw the catering and heating. Then off to dress and make up and look beautiful....

Father's Day party time! Convo, congeniality, a maybe-feigned interest in Tres's relatives (aka good manners) -- exhausting!

Finale? Tres splits with family for Sunday night out. Supposedly Vanessa went out, too, but I'm guessing it was a retaliatory move on her part. Because I'm pretty sure all the after-party cleanup was left to Vanessa. I'm sure she thought that she AND Tres would do after-party bonding once everybody left, but she was disappointed.

Tres presents as an easygoing, good-looking, sauntering cool dude. But he also seems to me to be marking time, above it all and still very much an independent contractor. A pleasant, cute independent, but, still, an independent. Vanessa sees that.

I'm also sticking by my conjecture that sex with Tres might have been a disappointment to Vanessa.

Vanessa said early on that divorce is not an option for her. I hope she changes her mind. And she should get her own show after this. Maybe a cooking thing. Or a pet show. She enjoys those things, and single-guy camera operators and producers would expand her dating pool.

Edited January 10, 2016 by sleekandchic

[ralph]

I also found it odd that people had an issue with the conversation between Vanessa and Tres' father. I took him standing over her while she sat on the bed as respectful. He is not sitting on the bed with her, which would be weird. I just think he didn't have a chair to sit on readily, and the producers for some reason chose to film them in the bedroom.

 

I agree. I also thought that entire scene seemed completely innocent.

[my3sons]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I only watched some of S1 and S2, but have watched all of S3 so far. I used to live near Atlanta and thought it would be interesting to see how Southerners compared to their bigger city counterparts. I think online dating sites could have made better matches for all six individuals! I've always been under the impression you don't enter a relationship thinking you can change a person. Isn't that what the 'experts' think David can do for Ashley? Help her break out of her shell. I find it interesting that five of the six have, for lack of a better word, baggage. Tres was abandoned by his mother and brought up, not by his father, by his aunts; Vanessa doesn't have a relationship with her father; David's father died when he was young; Ashley doesn't have a relationship with her father; Sam is close to her stepfather, but not her biological father. It makes me wonder if this baggage played a role in their previous relationships. Is Neil the only one that didn't come with baggage, or am I forgetting something?

Tres and Vanessa: I think Tres is a sweet young man who has a good attitude considering his childhood. However, I'm like Vanessa and question if he's really ready to be married. If he wants to go to bars, he should ask Vanessa to go with him. She might not be into the bar scene, but it would give them time together and give Vanessa a chance to see him in a different environment. Vanessa said she had looked everywhere, but couldn't find Mr. Right. That's something a 35 year old should say, not someone that's only 25! I think she should have given the dating scene more time before deciding to marry a stranger.

David and Ashley: When I heard Ashley say she wasn't attracted to David, I immediately thought of Jamie from S1. Jamie gave Doug a chance and ended up falling in love. I thought that might happen with Ashley, but I'm not so sure. I don't know if she's really giving David a chance, although the clip from next week's episode of the two of them in a ferris wheel makes me think she's letting her guard down a little. I thought she was the most relaxed when she talked to David about breaking the handle of the toilet. If she could be that way more often, they might actually be able to stay together. I thought it was sweet of Ashley to calm David down when he got upset on Father's Day, even though his outburst seemed staged to me.

Neil and Sam: I like Neil and his quirky sense of humor. From what I've seen, I think he's truly committed to making the marriage work. Am I right that Sam likes his non PC off camera personality better than his on air personality? I'm confused about what Sam wants in a man. Does she want the man to be in charge, one who shares everything 50-50, or something else? If I'm not mistaken, I believe she and Neil are holding hands in the clip when the couples decide whether to stay married or get divorced. I hope they make it because I think they are the most compatible of the three couples.

[Jack Sampson]

David and Ashley: When I heard Ashley say she wasn't attracted to David, I immediately thought of Jamie from S1. Jamie gave Doug a chance and ended up falling in love.

Let's not exaggerate. Jamie realized this is her last chance at Z-list celebrity and to have a child with a tall athlete. That marriage is doomed the second their show ends.

[Snarklepuss]

He seems to get a pass for such things and I don't understand why. There are just too many red flags with this guy to ignore. I can see them racking up in Vanessa's brain and rightfully so. At this point, he is the one with the most bagage in the relationship.

And I kind of hate the fact that Vanessa will be his guinea pig to help him figure out if he's ready for a committed relationship let alone marriage. All of the contestant stated how long they have been single but I don't remember Tres talking about it. Probably one of his first monogamous relationship, is being married to stranger? How could that have a happy ending?

The thing with Tres is we suspect a lot with him but don't really know it. I'm wondering if like with Basement Ryan all of a sudden facts will come out about him to make him look bad. At this point I don't know if Tres is a true player or just a guy that dated around a lot and perhaps was a little promiscuous but is now ready to settle down. I'm thinking that if he was a true player he would not make good marriage material just because that involves lying, cheating and manipulating and why should the leopard change his spots, right? And if he dated a lot and was a little promiscuous as in hooking-up with no strings attached, just how bad was he? If he had a different woman every week I'd say Vanessa should RUN as fast as she can away from him because he'd probably cheat on her. But if he had a one night stand once in a while it may be no real cause for alarm. I've read that men can have a past like this without affecting their ability to remain faithful in a marriage. There may be other issues with Tres that would give rise to cheating and just generally not being ready to settle down, such as not having a positive relationship with his birth mother and being somewhat immature. I think Vanessa probably has more to fear from that on several counts than any sexual past on his part. Edited January 10, 2016 by Snarklepuss