S06.E01: Season 6, Episode 1

[ShadowFacts]

We weren't told that Edith got all of Gregson's fortune, only his magazine and his flat in London. I think it's safe to assume that Gregson left money to keep his wife well in the institution.

If you own an estate, a business enterprise or a newspaper, you can't leave them to a person who is complete unable to manage them, although he or she is a relative, if you don't want to destroy your life's work.

In the show Fellowes wanted to show the audience that Gregson's intentions were honorable and he sincerely wanted to marry Edith. Now the magazine gives Edith an independent income and a reason to visit London.

 

One hopes that is the way it went down.  Unless he was very wealthy, which I guess we don't know, one's business would usually be the source of a continuing income stream, as well as real estate.  Of course there would have to be a trust or guardian or some instrument to ensure lifelong care of the institutionalized spouse.  And at least in the U.S., even if a spouse is left out of a will, they can do what is called electing against it in order to get a share. 

 

If Gregson's intentions were honorable toward Edith, then I would have liked a word or two to show he was honorable towards his wife, as well.  Not a huge deal, but a dangling plot point.  There must have been some knowledge around his social and business circles in London that he had a wife, and that someone else got the bulk of his estate.  As helenamonster said, she is the reason he went to Germany and ended up dead, and Edith in a fix that upended many lives.

[Haleth]

Maybe Edith will be the one to rescue her family from having to sell the estate.  Mary would love that.

[ZoloftBlob]

I don't understand if the estates were being bought, why lifestyle was going away. I do understand people not wanting to enter a life of service, but what other reasons were there?

 

Money mostly. The estate lifestyle just wasn't feasible. And yes, people buying the estate houses were social climbing, but they generally weren't buying all 17000 acres of property, they were buying the house and a little bit of land around it (if they were buying the house at all - a lot of the estate houses were getting torn down - Highclere is a rarity, an estate home that stayed in the family) The sales were all about selling the land off and the land was being parceled off. The house we saw being sold wasn't going with all the land intact

[Roseanna]

Maybe Edith will be the one to rescue her family from having to sell the estate.  Mary would love that.

I don't think that there is any fear of selling Downton for now. In S3 Robert lost Cora's money but Matthew put his heritage from in the estate and, with the help of Tom, began to modernize agriculture which means goodbye to most tenants except Mr Drewe. In CS Robert said to Cora that thanks to Matthew Downton will be safe, unlike Shrimpy's estate. After Matthew's death, there was in S4 the problem how to pay heritage tax and Mary began to try with pigs.

I believe we can safely assume that nowadays Downton gets profit instead of demanding money.

[Roseanna]

If Gregson's intentions were honorable toward Edith, then I would have liked a word or two to show he was honorable towards his wife, as well.  Not a huge deal, but a dangling plot point.  There must have been some knowledge around his social and business circles in London that he had a wife, and that someone else got the bulk of his estate.  As helenamonster said, she is the reason he went to Germany and ended up dead, and Edith in a fix that upended many lives.

One can't have all. DA is essentially a soap.

Fellowes gave a clear warning how things were going to turn when Gregson not only gave Edith a power of attorney during his absence but also made his will.

[Andorra]

I'm absolutely convinced Julian Fellows has long forgotten about Mrs Gregson. She probably conveniently died the same day as her husband when her existence was no longer necessary to prevend a marriage between Edith and Gregson. And she also probably never had any relatives nor friends nor anyone who knew her and who might ask uncomfortable questions why Edith inherited the newspaper. 

[Lorna Mae]

Perfect example of people nowadays aging better than in times gone by: I've been watching a documentary about the day JFK was shot. Lot of interviews with people who were on the scene, like Clint Hill, like the officer who booked LHO -- people who were in their twenties or thirties at the time. Which puts them in their seventies or eighties when interviewed for the docu. And while they're not young in relative terms, they're also not decrepit. They're wrinkled but not pruney; their hair is gray or white but they still have a lot of it, they're not hunched over or palsied, and they speak clearly and concisely. Whereas, people in their seventies/eighties in 1963 would likely have had some combination of shaking or arthritic hands, curved spinal columns, liver spots, hoarse voices, and inability to follow a conversation or finish a thought. ETA: txhorns79, point taken.

 

Anyway, as far as Downton, for me, Carson + Hughes makes up for Isobel turning down Dickie Merton. Why?! I mean, I understand why Violet turned down her Russian suitor, but Isobel turning down Merton because of his sons was weak. Phooey. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Lorna Mae

[Artymouse]

 

 

Anyway, as far as Downton, for me, Carson + Hughes makes up for Isobel turning down Dickie Merton. Why?! I mean, I understand why Violet turned down her Russian suitor, but Isobel turning down Merton because of his sons was weak. Phooey. 

 

 

I could see Isobel's point, though. Those boys were nasty, unpleasant and just plain mean, and they would have made her life hell. Even though they were grown, they would have been rude to her at every opportunity, and Lord Merton's only recourse would have been to disown them, which wasn't going to happen.

 

But in this episode, it seemed like Dr. Clarkson was still holding onto a bit of a grudge against Isobel for turning him down.

[Roseanna]

I could see Isobel's point, though. Those boys were nasty, unpleasant and just plain mean, and they would have made her life hell. Even though they were grown, they would have been rude to her at every opportunity, and Lord Merton's only recourse would have been to disown them, which wasn't going to happen.

But did they really have to live in the same house? Lord Merton could surely given Larry as his heir a small house or moved to it himself with Isobel. She wouldn't have to meet them at all.

[txhorns79]

And while they're not young in relative terms, they're also not decrepit. They're wrinkled but not pruney; their hair is gray or white but they still have a lot of it, they're not hunched over or palsied, and they speak clearly and concisely. Whereas, people in their seventies/eighties in 1963 would likely have had some combination of shaking or arthritic hands, curved spinal columns, liver spots, hoarse voices, and inability to follow a conversation or finish a thought.

 

I have to seriously question that description of people in their 70s/80s in 1963.  You make it sound like until recently, the elderly turned into some version of the living dead.  I would say in terms of the documentary you saw, they would naturally seek out the people for on camera interviews who were camera ready in their appearance.  If someone was demented or was unable to sit for an interview due to some condition, it's unlikely they would have been interviewed on camera.  I think you are right in that people today, generally speaking, take better care of themselves.         

 

 

The sales were all about selling the land off and the land was being parceled off. The house we saw being sold wasn't going with all the land intact

 

Yes, the costs for the land, to maintain the land, as well as staff the houses, kept rising, and unless the families were taking in substantial income, there was little way to continue maintaining the homes.

Edited January 8, 2016 by txhorns79

[Roseanna]

I'm absolutely convinced Julian Fellows has long forgotten about Mrs Gregson. She probably conveniently died the same day as her husband when her existence was no longer necessary to prevend a marriage between Edith and Gregson. And she also probably never had any relatives nor friends nor anyone who knew her and who might ask uncomfortable questions why Edith inherited the newspaper.

Sometimes the audience remembers the details of the story much better than the writer.

Gregson and Edith dated quite openly in the restaurants, so iir there would have been gossip even without Mrs Gregson why Lady Edith inherited his magazine.

In the show, gossip happens only when it suits to the plot (f.ex Pamuk).

[Artymouse]

But did they really have to live in the same house? Lord Merton could surely given Larry as his heir a small house or moved to it himself with Isobel. She wouldn't have to meet them at all.

 

 

I don't think it really mattered that they didn't live in the same house. Unpleasant in-laws can make your life miserable no matter where they live, and unfortunately, I know this from experience! And to avoid the devil-spawn sons, Isobel and Lord Merton would have had to avoid holidays with them, as well as social situations where their paths might cross. And then if Merton died before Isobel, there most likely would have been inheritance issues.

 

Maybe I'm too cynical, given my former in-laws from hell, but I can totally understand why she made that decision. 

[Diane M]

I don't think so; if she had died, then he wouldn't have needed to move to Germany for the divorce.

 

I meant after he went missing.  I wish there was some way to check on it because it seems so clear to me that Edith was told she had died.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Diane M

[caligirl50]

I think Robert is realizing that the Downton house is just an expensive way to live.  They have the money but I think he realizes that it's just going to become more and more expensive and for what?  They own so much but what does it all mean? It will be interesting to see what Mary thinks about it all.  She had her sights set on living there but now that Matthew is gone...it hasn't been addressed.

 

In regards to Isobel and the Mertons: those sons are ugly people.  Lord Merton said as much.  I don't really think he has much of a relationship with either after what they did/said to Isobel (but that hasn't been addressed yet either). It will be interesting to see how that relationship evolves.  I hope she is smart enough to see that he is a catch and she needs to see if he is still interested.  I would love to see her ask him to marry her!  Modern times and all that...but I am dreaming.

[kassa]

Isobel's smart enough to know that at her stage in life, peace is a priority.  And maybe the fact that there would be no peace and that being insurmountable showed her that she really didn't love him enough.  She always did sort of couch the relationship as a kind of weird lark she thought might be fun and rewarding.  If she were madly in love she wouldn't have asked for the delay to give an answer, or even if she did, she would have dithered more about it.

 

My impression was that she liked him, she enjoyed his company, she could see the prospect of having influence and being able to use that in the service of things she cared about, and what the heck -- a crazy fork in the road late in life.  Go for it!

 

Then the sons made the whole prospect seem like a lot more work. And presented the prospect of the marriage bringing personal misery to Merton.  And, no doubt, many of his family and friends would have sided with the sons.   Better to bow out gracefully.

[caligirl50]

I so disagree.  Who cares what other people say?  LM needs to tell his sons he loves this woman and if they feel anything for him, they will want him happy. If not, they can fuck off.  He and Isobel would not be rejected by his friends.  She has the Crawley family name and that means something.

[helenamonster]

But Gregson's wife wasn't really introduced as we haven't seen her at all. There can be now some scenes in London where Edith has now a magazine and flat but the show simply can't have too much minor characters that aren't connected with Downton in any way.

In the same time, the story isn't about Mrs Drewe or Gregson's wife but about Edith's development. Now when she has a magazine - how will she succeed with it? And how will her family react if she does?

 

She wasn't introduced in the traditional sense, in that yes, we never saw her, but her existence is canon and, as I previously stated, was crucial to everything that has happened to Edith since mid-S4 (Gregson going missing/getting killed in Germany, Edith having Marigold and inheriting the London flat and publishing company). Having such a crucial plot point and then letting said plot point disappear into the ether when its existence is no longer convenient is bad writing.

 

And while the story is not about Mrs. Gregson or Mrs. Drewe since they don't have much connection to the Crawleys, they still served key purposes as minor characters in terms of defining certain traits of Edith. Edith inheriting a substantial amount from Gregson (whether it was everything or not, it was still quite a lot) with no question as to what would happen to his institutionalized wife doesn't say very many positive things about Edith. And I talked ad nauseam last season about why I thought what Edith and Mr. Drewe did to Mrs. Drewe was horrible. Edith is just not looking very good to me right now, and it was these minor characters that really brought those negative traits out in her, imo.

[Andorra]

I meant after he went missing.  I wish there was some way to check on it because it seems so clear to me that Edith was told she had died.

 

No, she was never mentioned again after his talk with Matthew in the CS of season 3. They Crawleys don't know he was married. At least they haven't mentioned her ever either. 

 

Having such a crucial plot point and then letting said plot point disappear into the ether when its existence is no longer convenient is bad writing.

 

I agree, but I'm not surprised. It's by far not the first example of Julian Fellows' bad writing after all. Let me just say: "Greene murder storyline"...

[Roseanna]

She wasn't introduced in the traditional sense, in that yes, we never saw her, but her existence is canon and, as I previously stated, was crucial to everything that has happened to Edith since mid-S4 (Gregson going missing/getting killed in Germany, Edith having Marigold and inheriting the London flat and publishing company). Having such a crucial plot point and then letting said plot point disappear into the ether when its existence is no longer convenient is bad writing.

I don't agree. Gregson's wife was only used as a technical obstacle just as Mrs Churchill in Jane Austen's Emma. Her function in the novel was only to keep Frank Churchill and Jane Fairfax apart and force them to keep their engagement secret. As she was never seen, even the characters only put lip service when she died.

 

Edith inheriting a substantial amount from Gregson (whether it was everything or not, it was still quite a lot) with no question as to what would happen to his institutionalized wife doesn't say very many positive things about Edith.

I think that it tells only that there aren't time enough to handle all things as there can be only a certain number of scenes and lines. On must leave irrelevant things and dull moments out.

 

And I talked ad nauseam last season about why I thought what Edith and Mr. Drewe did to Mrs. Drewe was horrible.

Edith had to chose between losing her only child or hurting Mrs Drewe. Only a saint would have put Mrs Drewe's feelings and needs before her own.

It's totally different to hurt people only from pure malice.

[caligirl50]

Yes helenamonster, you are correct that Edith and Mr. Drewe never considered Mrs. Drewe's feelings.  That should have come up when they had their tea meeting when the family was at Rose's ball. Bad planning.

 

We are discussing things that aren't real....

[lucindabelle]

I so disagree.  Who cares what other people say?  LM needs to tell his sons he loves this woman and if they feel anything for him, they will want him happy. If not, they can fuck off.  He and Isobel would not be rejected by his friends.  She has the Crawley family name and that means something.

ITA. Lord Merton stood up at the dinner part immediately and called his son out when Larry called tom a grubby little chauffeur. Larry is not going to approve of anyone his dad chooses, and Merton should get that through to Isobel. Larry is grown and doesn't live at home and they can live most of their lives without dealing with him. It's not like he's going to post nasty things on facebook lol!

[Badger]

Regarding Madge, she's been in the show since Season 3 and has been shown a few times. However, she's never had any lines so she's easy to miss.

I was wondering if they were going to address the subject about whether or not Carson and Mrs. Hughes planned to consummate their marriage. Companionate marriage was a thing back then.

Ronald Colman and Greer Garson have one in "Random Harvest."

[Llywela]

Edith had to chose between losing her only child or hurting Mrs Drewe. Only a saint would have put Mrs Drewe's feelings and needs before her own.

It would have been possible for Edith to put her own needs first while still showing even a modicum of compassion to the woman she had used so abominably - the two are not mutually exclusive. She went about things in the worst possible way and showed no sympathy at all to the woman whose only crime was to love a little orphan girl. That was Edith's main fault - her lack of compassion and understanding. If she'd demonstrated even a tiny bit of sympathy for Mrs Drewe's situation I might have felt more sympathy for Edith herself.

 

And it's worth pointing out that if it had been a modern-style adoption, she wouldn't have had the option of changing her mind a year down the line, no matter how badly she felt about it. Adoptions are final for a very good reason. The needs of the child are supposed to come first. Not once did Edith talk about what was best for Marigold, it was all about Edith herself. And no, growing up on a farm with a working class family in the 1920s was not a fate worse than death - my grandparents managed it and had stable, happy lives. An aristocratic upbringing was no guarantee of happiness (or even of education - the Crawleys girls weren't given much of one).

[Roseanna]

It would have been possible for Edith to put her own needs first while still showing even a modicum of compassion to the woman she had used so abominably - the two are not mutually exclusive. She went about things in the worst possible way and showed no sympathy at all to the woman whose only crime was to love a little orphan girl. That was Edith's main fault - her lack of compassion and understanding. If she'd demonstrated even a tiny bit of sympathy for Mrs Drewe's situation I might have felt more sympathy for Edith herself.

 

And it's worth pointing out that if it had been a modern-style adoption, she wouldn't have had the option of changing her mind a year down the line, no matter how badly she felt about it. Adoptions are final for a very good reason. The needs of the child are supposed to come first. Not once did Edith talk about what was best for Marigold, it was all about Edith herself. And no, growing up on a farm with a working class family in the 1920s was not a fate worse than death - my grandparents managed it and had stable, happy lives. An aristocratic upbringing was no guarantee of happiness (or even of education - the Crawleys girls weren't given much of one).

 

No doubt Edith made originally a mistake by not telling the truth. But a mistake isn't an intentional deed. One notices only afterwards that one has made a mistake. And at that time to reveal that one had a love child was a huge step, so it was natural not to tell.

 

As an intelligent person Mr Drewe understood the truth but made the decision not to tell it to his wife. Why? Because it was Edith's secret and he couldn't reveal it? Or because he knew that his wife couldn't be trusted? In any case, it made things even worse.

 

Of course, when Edith frequent visits raised Mrs Drewe's suspicion and resentment, Edith and Mr Drewe could have decided to tell her the truth. But Mr Drewe never suggested it. Why? One must repeat: was it because he knew that his wife couldn't be trusted?

 

This wasn't a case where people hurt others on purpose and out of maliciousness. In the beginning Edith and Mr Drewe made decisions in good faith that turned out to be mistakes. Mrs Drewe acted out of ignorance but maybe also out of obsession and unwillingness to share Marigold. The result was a spiral where every act resulted a react and so on until there could only be a confrontation where only one party could win whereas the other must lose.

 

Finally, it was Mrs Drewe who refused any compromise, refusing Edith to meet Marigold. Although she made this decision of ignorance and can be pitied with good reason, that doesn't change that in this situation Edith had to choose between losing her only child or hurting Mrs Drewe.

 

Of course she thought primarily about her own needs. But who wouldn't in the same situation? She was emotionally crushed after losing the man she had loved and who was the father of her child and after that she was the only valuable thing she had in the whole world.

 

That Mrs Drewe was misled by her husband that Marigold was come to stay in the family, doesn't invalidiate that because Edith had written her own name in the birth certificate, she had kept all legal rights over her child and Marigold was only Drewes' foster child.

 

Besides, it doesn't necessarily make these kind of situations any less difficult. During WW2, tens of thousand children in our country were sent to safety to the neighbor countries. Many of the foster parents become very fond of the children and vice versa although there were also unhappy cases. The biological parents assumed that the children would come back after the war but the autorities of those countries decided in some cases against it as especially little children had compeletely forgotten their biological parents. There was no "right" answer to the dilemma, either the biological parents or foster parents were hurt. And children certainly were hurt by separation from the biological mother (the father was of course in the front or fallen) and then by the separation from the foster parents. 

 

But one didn't know the child psychology at the time. When it was done, it was thought to be best.

 

As for Marigold growing up in the farm, it's of course not hell, but it's nevertheless a hard life. My main point is that the Drewes couldn't offer her anything in the future for they couldn't afford to pay her education. 

 

As I said earlier, Mrs Drewe was very selfish not to see that Lady Edith could give Marigold a possibility to a better future. Or maybe she didn't want it  because then they would be culturally and socially apart.

 

I don't think that growing up in Downton among aristocrats would be ideal but rather the possibilities Edith  as an independent and wealthy woman can offer her daughter. Marigold can to the university and chose whatever career she wants to.

 

My grandparents also owned a farm. When mother who was very gifted wanted to go to the secondary school, her father refused it. Later he insisted that she became a teacher which was against her shy nature. 

 

It was a great waste that she couldn't have education worthy of her talents. And there were many like her in the former times.

[AZChristian]

Roseanna - thank you for stating clearly and succinctly your position on the Edith/Mrs. Drewe/Marigold situation.  I agree with you 100%.  Lots of bad decisions were made (as in not telling Mrs. Drewe the truth).  And Mrs. Drewe felt threatened in many ways by Edith's interest in Marigold, whom she thought at one time was the love child of Edith and Mr. Drewe.

 

Once Edith made the decision not to abort her baby, it was obvious that she would never be able to fully give her up.  It is sad that Mrs. Drewe was hurt, but it's good that Edith and Marigold were fully reunited before the child was any older.  

[Milburn Stone]

But Gregson's wife wasn't really introduced as we haven't seen her at all. There can be now some scenes in London where Edith has now a magazine and flat but the show simply can't have too much minor characters that aren't connected with Downton in any way.

I think just the contrary about the plots: f.ex. Green's "murder" was quite unnecessary. Either Anna should have gone to the police as there was so clear a evidence that she was raped that nobody could deny it and there wouldn't have been a trial. Or the plot would have been how to cope with the rape. Or both. Not that her feelings weren't in the main focus but she was mostly afraid of that her husband would kill the rapist (completely forgetting that she had been sure that he hadn't murdered his wife).

In the same time, the story isn't about Mrs Drewe or Gregson's wife but about Edith's development. Now when she has a magazine - how will she succeed with it? And how will her family react if she does?

 

Yes to all this. Season One was so great because it dramatized a way of life as the winds of change began to blow. Since then the show has been running on fumes, with Fellowes reaching for ever-sillier ways (and ever-sillier subsidiary characters) to keep himself interested. It could be this was a story that only had one good season in it, but I have to believe there were all sorts of ways the story could have had legs.

 

There are some shows, however, in which the first season is so damnably good that you keep watching to the bitter end, sustained by nothing more than how damnably good that first season was. Downton is one of them. 

[Llywela]

Roseanna, I am not disputing what happened. I am saying that Edith could and should have demonstrated more sympathy for Mrs Drewe both when she reclaimed the child and afterward when it was clear that Mrs Drewe was badly upset by it. That is what makes Edith come off looking so badly. Not even once has she acknowledged that her actions have hurt other people, who were blameless. And not once has she apologised for the way she used the Drewe family when it was convenient for her, and then discarded them when she changed her mind. We can like a character and still criticise them when they behave badly, which Edith did. I understand exactly why Edith did what she did, and sympathise with her position. I still think she behaved badly - because she did. Her lack of compassion and empathy for others is one of her biggest character flaws.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Llywela

[ShadowFacts]

Roseanna, I am not disputing what happened. I am saying that Edith could and should have demonstrated more sympathy for Mrs Drewe both when she reclaimed the child and afterward when it was clear that Mrs Drewe was badly upset by it. That is what makes Edith come off looking so badly. Not even once has she acknowledged that her actions have hurt other people, who were blameless. And not once has she apologised for the way she used the Drewe family when it was convenient for her, and then discarded them when she changed her mind. We can like a character and still criticise them when they behave badly, which Edith did. I understand exactly why Edith did what she did, and sympathise with her position. I still think she behaved badly - because she did. Her lack of compassion and empathy for others is one of her biggest character flaws.

Very well said.  Edith bulldozed a lot of people, starting with the original Swiss couple.  She arrived at an imperfect solution because she so far has not been able to openly acknowledge her daughter, but she essentially got what she wanted.  Which makes me wonder, if Mary has not put 2 + 2 together, done the math of when her sister went away for months, how old Marigold is, Edith's intense interest, possible physical resemblance to her or Gregson, did Robert over estimate Mary's ability to run the estate, indeed the kingdom?  Is it a lack of discernment on Mary's part, or her own self-absorption?  I don't do spoilers but I have to think Mary is going to figure it out one of these days.  Or did I miss it?  I don't think I did because I'm sure Mary would have been really pissy and I'd remember that.

[Roseanna]

Which makes me wonder, if Mary has not put 2 + 2 together, done the math of when her sister went away for months, how old Marigold is, Edith's intense interest, possible physical resemblance to her or Gregson, did Robert over estimate Mary's ability to run the estate, indeed the kingdom?  Is it a lack of discernment on Mary's part, or her own self-absorption?  I don't do spoilers but I have to think Mary is going to figure it out one of these days.  Or did I miss it?  I don't think I did because I'm sure Mary would have been really pissy and I'd remember that.

 

Mary is the only one in the family who hasn't figured it out. I think that it's very believable because to her Edith is only a nuisance whose presence annoys her, so she doesn't want to think about her at all.

[ShadowFacts]

Mary is the only one in the family who hasn't figured it out. I think that it's very believable because to her Edith is only a nuisance whose presence annoys her, so she doesn't want to think about her at all.

So lack of discernment, blind spot, whatever we may call it, Mary has missed something going on right under her nose.  There are likely to be plenty of nuisances and annoyances in the Downton estate on a daily basis, and not thinking about such things is not a great quality in an executive.  Of course I understand Robert was overstating things in his praise of Mary, but look at all the missed opportunities for sending zingers Edith's way.  Mary needs to sharpen her game, so she can fully enjoy her smug superiority. 

[Roseanna]

Roseanna, I am not disputing what happened. I am saying that Edith could and should have demonstrated more sympathy for Mrs Drewe both when she reclaimed the child and afterward when it was clear that Mrs Drewe was badly upset by it. That is what makes Edith come off looking so badly. Not even once has she acknowledged that her actions have hurt other people, who were blameless. And not once has she apologised for the way she used the Drewe family when it was convenient for her, and then discarded them when she changed her mind. We can like a character and still criticise them when they behave badly, which Edith did. I understand exactly why Edith did what she did, and sympathise with her position. I still think she behaved badly - because she did. Her lack of compassion and empathy for others is one of her biggest character flaws.

 

In my country there is a saying: "One can't give with a scoop, it one has got it with a spoon."

 

A child whose needs are fulfilled and who is treated with empathy, learns to treat others with empathy. It's futile to demand from Edith to show others something she has got so little herself.

 

However, the relationship of Edith and Drewes is also socially unequal. As an aristocrat Edith instinctively feels that her needs are more important than theirs and for the same reason she can in the end fulfil them. As a tenant farmers Drewes are utterly dependent on Edith's father. (Cf. Major Bryant's parents who "bought" grandson from Ethel instead giving her money to raise him.)

 

As for Edith never saying she is sorry, I do think that's that's vastly overrated if it's only words. A real apology would mean that one wouldn't do the deed again and/or would like to make amends for. But Edith can't give Marigold back to Drewes.

[Llywela]

As for Edith never saying she is sorry, I do think that's that's vastly overrated if it's only words. A real apology would mean that one wouldn't do the deed again and/or would like to make amends for. But Edith can't give Marigold back to Drewes.

No, she can't. But she could be at least a little bit gracious about it. Personality is demonstrated by deeds, and Edith's dealings with the Drewe's did not paint her in a favourable light at all. She has good reason for behaving the way she did, for sure, but the way she went about things highlighted the worst side of her personality. Expressing some kind of remorse wouldn't help the Drewe's, but it would say something positive about who Edith is. That she hasn't...well, that also says something about who Edith is, to her detriment. Now, I like Edith, I do. I'm happy for her that she feels fulfilled having Marigold in her life as her 'ward'. But she is a very flawed individual lacking in both self-awareness and empathy for others, and that has been apparent since season one and I don't think there's anything wrong with saying so. One of the pleasures of watching TV, for me, is reaching an understanding of who the characters are, both their strengths and their weaknesses. Edith has her strengths, but she also has her weaknesses - and her treatment of the Drewe's showed her off at her worst.

[Clanstarling]

As an intelligent person Mr Drewe understood the truth but made the decision not to tell it to his wife. Why? Because it was Edith's secret and he couldn't reveal it? Or because he knew that his wife couldn't be trusted? In any case, it made things even worse.

 

Of course, when Edith frequent visits raised Mrs Drewe's suspicion and resentment, Edith and Mr Drewe could have decided to tell her the truth. But Mr Drewe never suggested it. Why? One must repeat: was it because he knew that his wife couldn't be trusted?

Or perhaps he understood she could be trusted to reject the idea as, being a mother, she would know it was a bad idea, and that it would lead to nothing but heartbreak?

Edith has always been my favorite of the two remaining sisters - she's the Anna of the upstairs - never allowed to be happy. But she behaved poorly, as did Mr. Drewe. She didn't intend the hurt she caused, but that does not absolve her of it.

[Andorra]

I agree with those who are critical of Edith's behavior towards the Drewes or the Swiss couple. She has been very unfeeling IMO. I understand her reasons and I think in the long term Marigold should be with her mother, but that doesn't change the fact, that Edith was pretty ruthless and unfeeling. Just because it is Edith, who has been the "unlucky one" all her life, I don't see why she should get special excuses. 

[Roseanna]

So lack of discernment, blind spot, whatever we may call it, Mary has missed something going on right under her nose.  There are likely to be plenty of nuisances and annoyances in the Downton estate on a daily basis, and not thinking about such things is not a great quality in an executive. 

 

Thomas is missed it, too.

[Crs97]

Her character was cemented for me when, after the deed was done and Marigold was with her in London, she talked about Mrs. Drewe with contempt. When you look at how she treats people who are "beneath" her, she doesn't come off well.

[caligirl50]

It is interesting the way JF has written Edith's character.  She kissed the gross farmer knowing he was married with a family.  I believed she liked the work better than the farmer but she still went there with him and then was upset when she was sent packing. Next we have the Drewes.  Edith doesn't seem to get it but JF is writing this character and I guess he figures she is making the best decisions from the situations she is confronted with.  But they aren't always the best decisions.

 

I read Below Stairs.  Not the best book.  The writer had much distain for her masters. The ending isn't really satisfying but I am glad I read it.

Edited January 9, 2016 by caligirl50

[Roseanna]

Her character was cemented for me - -

 

I don't think one never can cement someone's character.

 

A man who had led the army in three wars once said that he was often surprised by his officers: a loudmouth could be a good leader whereas a man of honor could be a coward.

 

Also the greatest novelists describe the characters who constantly surprise one, for good or bad.

[testardo]

Edith is  poor me. she feels sorry for herself, .So she isn't the eldest, get over it. get a life and stop treating everyone like they did something to you. She actually wrote to the Indian embassy to get her sister in trouble. Didn't she realize the whole family would have suffered, didn.t she care ?  She wanted Gregson, he was married to a women in a hospital, who cares go to Germany and get a divorce. The women is very selfish. Sisters fight .Its life. I am glad she has her daughter, but she made the choices and now she needs to take the blame.  I loved the whole Patmore , Carson , Hughes thing. I love the fact that Carson wants an all the way marriage with Hughes. They are not dead yet, if they are, forget the marriage. The actors are gold. Most of the actors on the show are gold, the characters not so much. I have enjoyed almost all the stories, loved Bates since he brought the soup to Anna when she was sick. Her fighting to get him free, and even her knowing him so well, she was terrified if she told him  green raped her bates would kill him, and she would have lost him forever. Daisey is more of a petenent child than Edith and Mary to me. She can't have her way, she pouts and makes cracks.    I for one will be sorry to see the show end, but better to end it then drag it on till we wish it ended . The only thing I don't get is what is Thomas ? a human or an idiot. He does good things, than ruins it by doing mean things again . With the show ending, I say thanks to Jullian, and all the actors writers etc. I enjoyed almost all of it. IT IS CERTAINLY THE BEST SOAP ON TV TODAY.

[caligirl50]

testardo - Edith wrote to the Turkish Ambassador.

[RedHawk]

I want to get another look at Gregson's, I mean Edith's flat! That modern art -- if Marigold holds onto it until the 1980s she can sell a few pieces and have enough money to help cousin Georgie's son or grandson save Downton all over again. Loved her casual mention of meeting Virginia Woolf and Lytton Strachey, and her slight bewilderment at how he didn't stick around long. Strachey was "out" to the Bloomsbury group and Edith  was not brilliant or boyish enough to hold his attention, although he would have been interested in her pedigree.

Edited January 9, 2016 by RedHawk

[caligirl50]

The art in the apartment is so good.

[Crs97]

I don't think one never can cement someone's character.

I agree if we are talking about real people. Fictional characters on a show that has ended? I am comfortable with my take on her.

I thought the Carson/Hudson/Patmore exchanges were unrealistic, but funny enough to be fine with it. I loved Mrs. Patmore's reaction, and Carson's responses were very sweet.

[nx74defiant]

I thought Mr. Mason in the house before the auction, talking about his experiences and chipping in for the gift were very touching.

Edited January 10, 2016 by nx74defiant

[nx74defiant]

I want to get another look at Gregson's, I mean Edith's flat! That modern art -- if Marigold holds onto it until the 1980s she can sell a few pieces and have enough money to help cousin Georgie's son or grandson save Downton all over again. Loved her casual mention of meeting Virginia Woolf and Lytton Strachey, and her slight bewilderment at how he didn't stick around long. Strachey was "out" to the Bloomsbury group and Edith  was not brilliant or boyish enough to hold his attention, although he would have been interested in her pedigree.

It made me think of lost oppertunities. Instead of telling us briefly about the meetings we could have seen it.

[CeeBeeGee]

Oh yes, for sure, women in that era would look older because they didn't use hair dye and makeup among nice people was just beginning to be a thing.

"You know very well Grandma Robillard painted her face..." ;)

[Roseanna]

It made me think of lost oppertunities. Instead of telling us briefly about the meetings we could have seen it.

Of course it's always better to show something for if we had seen that the Bloomsbury set found Edith interesting, that would prove Mary's opinions of her "dullness" wrong. Or at least that Edith suited better to London and intellectuals than to aristocrats and countryside.

However, to have a scene where there are many new characters is not easy to do (and of course hiring actors costs money). And I guess Fellowes thought that we would believe it simply because it was said - as we should believe that Tom could manage the great estate because his uncle hand a farm.

[Milburn Stone]

Of course it's always better to show something...

However, to have a scene where there are many new characters is not easy to do (and of course hiring actors costs money).

My sense these last few seasons has been that it's not so much about budget as writing effort. Time after time--even in the well-worn Downton locations and with the well-worn cast--we cut away from conversations just when they're about to get interesting, and return to them after everything's been resolved. So that we get information via exposition rather than watching it unfold first-hand. Scenes routinely last 30-45 seconds, rather than the minutes they should for us to get to the meat of the confrontation. And why? Because writing scenes is hard. I agree with nx74defiant that there have been many lost opportunities.

[Roseanna]

My sense these last few seasons has been that it's not so much about budget as writing effort. Time after time--even in the well-worn Downton locations and with the well-worn cast--we cut away from conversations just when they're about to get interesting, and return to them after everything's been resolved. So that we get information via exposition rather than watching it unfold first-hand. Scenes routinely last 30-45 seconds, rather than the minutes they should for us to get to the meat of the confrontation. And why? Because writing scenes is hard. I agree with nx74defiant that there have been many lost opportunities.

That's true.

Partly, the cuts are done when a character tells another character what we already know. Partly I guess the aim is to add suspense.

But too many times the most interesting part is cut out and/our and suspense and/or feeling is on the contrary lessened.

[HoodlumSheep]

Finally caught up!

The whole carson/hughes storyline was just plain awkward. Did not need to hear about it. mrs. Patmore is a saint for putting up with those two.

I thought mary and edith tolerated eac oter well enough this episode.

I can't figure out how Mary repeatedly turning away the blackmailer and never figuring out what to do proves that she is capable of running the estate according to lord grantham. If anything it would prove that she's not? Although i want her to run it herself.

Still can't stand daisy. She's just so annoying. I want to punch her face in half the time she's on my screen. That's how much I dislike her.