S04.E09: Dark Waters

[Guest]

Yes.  They never told him about it being Thea or anything else that happened with the LoA last season.

Wow. I totally didn't even think about it last season. LOL. Does he not wonder what happened? I know it doesn't matter much now but does he not have questions? He's a police officer. He's supposed to be curious. OMG haha. I can't.

[EmeraldArcher]

Then again, for a moment there I thought maybe the shark was sent by HIVE via some orders sent back through time to kill Ollie -- we'll just call him Damian Sharhk.

HAHAHAHA! That's fabulous!

After SA's Facebook tease, I kept my fingers crossed for that giant shark-man thing from The Flash. King Shark? Totally would have loved OQ shark wrestling!

The FB are mind-boggling STUPID!! Oliver needed Poppy to give him an hour-long lesson on how to scuba just so he could SWIM WITHOUT SCUBA GEAR?!? That's about as bad as Poppy roasting the lizard with fresh herbs and sea salt!

[La Dee Da]

It felt like they packed two hours worth of material into tonight's show. So good! I generally like proposals that come out of mid-air but that was set up so well. They basically proposed to each other.

1. So, Damien's picture has been plastered all over the news as an Evil Guy, right? And he has a family, including a wife and daughter, at least as close as Nanda Parbat, also right? So...does this presumed wife know, or does she just never watch the news or get on the internet?

I assume she doesn't know, so that when Oliver inevitably goes after her and the kid in retaliation, his trip to the depths of the dark side is underscored for us. But it would be way more fun if she is on it - "how did the evilling go today, darling? By the way, little Bethany got an A- in folklore today - time for a parent-teacher conference, hmmmm?"

I'm surprised they revealed Darhk's identity to the press so quickly - I do like that it positions Oliver as the main adversary rather than the Green arrow.

I'm upset that the first time Oliver got on top of Felicity in a limo was to shield her from bullets. THAT'S NOT WHAT I WANTED, SHOW! *shakes fist*

Well, given how quickly Oliver pulled Felicity off the stage and to the limo, that might've been what he had in mind as well ;)

[SleepDeprived]

Ra's was supposed to be a couple hundred years old, right? Maybe Dark is too. He could have actually BEEN a Nazi. Was it inappropriate? Maybe, but he's a bad guy so I think that was kind of the point.

 

If he actually was a Nazi, that would be a mind trip since Neal McD played Dum Dum Dugan, who actually fought Nazis in the first Captain America movie.

 

I think Darhk is actually supposed to be somewhat close to fake-Ra's' age since they were supposed to have had been battling it out for the LoA's Next Top Demon's Head. Him and fake-Ra's were actually supposed to be locked in a fierce rivalry over the last century. I honestly don't know why Darhk didn't win because that other dude certainly lacks the flair for supervillainy hijinks.

[Lady Calypso]

Man, that was a fabulous episode, bar a couple of things. I NEEDED that episode after whatever the hell that was last week's. I'm gonna pretend last week's episode doesn't exist until I'm forced to.

 

This is the Olicity that I fell in love with, and the one I want on the show forever and ever. I thought all their scenes were well done. See? They're a couple, and always have been a couple, who talk to each other and figure things out together. Oliver needs Felicity, because she makes him a better man. I'll just pretend last week's episode had their souls taken from DD and they were just robots or...something. 

 

I'll admit it, I liked Laurel this episode. As in, actually enjoyed her scenes and happened to be invested. She was useful on a mission! She helped out! They needed that glass broken ASAP that could have taken too long to break with a bat and Laurel sped things up! And she knocked out some guys! Sure, the bark collar is still stupid as hell, but they put it to good use. And her scenes with Quentin were well done. It felt more natural this episode. The only scene that bugged was the Oliver/Laurel one, but that was mostly because of KC's crossed arms the entire time. But just this time, I'm willing to overlook it because the gas chamber bothered me more. 

 

DD, you're cold for almost killing people and then going home to your family like nothing happened. I'll be surprised if his family knows about him, but it WOULD be different. I'm gonna say DD lives way outside the city...and happens to not have cable. 

 

Honestly, after all the speculations over the last few weeks, I was expecting much worse. Hell, after the disaster that was last WEEK, I was expecting a lot worse. 

 

But show? The Christmas song choice? It would have worked better if you slowed down the ending...or lowered the volume...or something. It wasn't cheery enough, but it wasn't dramatic enough either. It was just oddly placed.

Also, liked Malcolm as well. He was entertaining, but DD not seeing that this GA and Oliver's GA look totally different? Ridiculous, but fine.

[Chaser]

I didn't have a big problem with the Oliver and Laurel scene per se. I did find it a bit odd tho. Laurel didn't seem to be very concerned with Diggle/Felicity and Thea's situation. Oliver suited up and had been going after Ghosts and Laurel just strolled in from the hotline, not much urgency there. She even cracked a bit of a joke. I understand the pep talk, but it's something that would make more sense coming from Diggle or Felicity. I would think Laurel would take more of a hard line approach. "Save the guys and have a moment of doubt later!"

[thegirlsleuth]

Whee!  That was wonderful. Oliver and Felicity are a team, and I loved how they essentially asked each other for their hand in marriage after several vulnerable conversations that were held while their life was on the line, which seemed perfect and fitting.  It gives me hope that the writers are going to be able to write their way out of the baby mama story line in a way that doesn't insult my intelligence/leave me hating  everyone.  Well, except Guggenheim. I'll still hate him. I have hardened my heart towards him after season three/last week's episode and I hope LoT gets gangbuster ratings so that he and his gotcha storytelling never comes near Arrow again.  

 

I am on board for Damien Darhk.  I think there are some solid actors on this show, and several have had some really great moments, but when Neal M is on screen my eyes never leave him even when he is floating in the background, and the humor/menace thing he is doing is really interesting.  If he played it a touch more manic he would be giving off the crazed madman vibe, but he is doing a really nice job of playing super-villain with a great sense of humor which to me makes him more threatening than an out-of-control lunatic.  I do wonder if his family is in the box.  Assuming he is 150 years old, it wouldn't be odd for him to have an old fashioned family, and if for some reason this "ideal" world he has them trapped in is a driver for destroying Starling, it could get really interesting.  I also like the face that unlike the League of Assassins, which never seemed like a threat en masse, HIVE as an organization does seem menacing.

 

In other news, everyone, including Laurel, was delightful and looked great.  It was a Christm-- er,  holiday miracle!

[Starfish35]

Good episode. Much better than last week's. In fact, one could easily pretend that last week's episode never happened, at least until it all blows up during February sweeps.

Thoughts in random order:

- I really hate the flashbacks, more than ever this episode. KirkB nailed it - they're always boring, but they were particularly intrusive this episode, and I resented every moment spent on them. Speaking of that, was Oliver swimming underwater some bad CGI?

- Always love Donna Smoak. :) And her finding the ring was priceless.

- SmoaknLance was as amusing as I thought it would be - more please. Can't wait for Laurel to find out.

- Speaking of Laurel, I can't believe I'm going to say it (is this an alternate universe?) but she actually was pretty good this episode. Why can't she be like this all the time? The only real issue I had was her taking her father to task in the middle of the station, but I guess I should be used to that kind of thing. I loved Malcolm's comment about her bondage gear - that may just be the writers poking fun at those of us who complain about her costume, but I'll take it. It struck me that she actually looked more like the BC in her regular clothes than in her costume, if they'd been all black. And KC is really pretty when she smiles, really smiles, not the closed-mouth smirk.

- the Bark Collar - well, it was useful for once, which is good. But it still seems oddly low-power compared to what Sara's Canary Cry bombs used to be capable of. It took two blasts and Oliver hitting the glass with her tonfa to shatter it. And it didn't hardly seem to phase the ghosts. I don't get it.

- Felicity at the holiday party....Her babbling to Curtis and his husband made me cringe with second-hand embarrassment, but I loved her line to Lance about hitting herself on the head so she wouldn't know it either, and then tapping Oliver on the shoulder and then changing her mind. :)

- Fair's fair - I criticised Laurel's lipstick a couple of episodes ago, and now I've gotta say that it looked like Felicity had been borrowing from her. I thought the shade she was wearing at the party was just too dark, and it kept distracting me.

- I'm still not sure where the Andy storyline is going, and I hate to say it but I'm having a hard time caring.

- Quentin finding out Malcolm is still alive was interesting. I would have expected more of an explosion, but maybe Quentin feels like he no longer has the moral high ground on the issue of working with super villains. Of course, he doesn't know about Sara......

- Which brings me to that Quentin/Laurel scene. Anvils for Lance or for Laurel? It really felt more for Laurel this time. I don't know. I still don't really believe they'd kill her off, but that really felt like some heavy foreshadowing.

- the gas chamber scene with the ghost dressed in grey was horrifying.

- I somehow didn't find the ending scene with The Little Drummer Boy music to be as effective as I'd antipated. Maybe if I really believed Felicity was going to die? But I don't, so....

- So Damien Darhk has a family. Bizarre.

- as someone who grew up in the midwest, that was some scraggly looking corn. And I'm still not sure I quite understand the whole plot.

ETA: Forgot to mention (there's always something) - Damien definitely noticed Thea. I rewound and played that several times. I wonder what will become of that.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Starfish35

[BkWurm1]

Am rewatching the episode, there is so much to love, I wanted to love it all over again.  I rewound the Donna/Quentin/Felicity scene four times - actually her whole sequence from calling Curtis' husband a hotty through her conversation with Oliver, EBR just was on point, every look and line. 

 

I noticed a few  things.  One, I think Laurel was actually handling the Hotline as a part of official DA business.  The message that sent her to see her father said it was from the DA's office.  That at least makes more sense then the team just randomly deciding that Laurel should answer the phones.

 

A small thing - how did Diggle and Thea know about the guy that was put in the gas chamber before them?  They bring it up when discussing if they should free the "prisoners".  Dig and Thea weren't there when Oliver watched the demonstration. 

 

The third thing is kind of a big deal.  I don't think that the gas in the chamber would have killed Felicity, Thea and Diggle. 

 

  His first lab rat died and so they dialed down the ratio of the pond scum formula.  He was HAPPY that he didn't die so quickly at least.  He then was going to use F,T & D as his next group of lab rats.  They certainly survived longer than the first guy and after they were rescued, DD led  his partners to his underground bunker and says he's duplicated an atmosphere like on Everest.  His partners say "I thought the tests failed" and DD says, "Not the last one."

 

 Dahrk was fine if Oliver's loved ones died, but he was actually trying to create a formula that would NOT kill  anyone.  I think what was being pumped into the gas chamber was the same weak atmosphere found in his pleasure dome of corn.  How he already had the corn growing so tall is something I can't answer but yeah, I don't think Felicity, Thea or Diggle were actually in danger of dying. 

Edited December 10, 2015 by BkWurm1

[thuganomics85]

Damn, Damien Dahrk is apparently a Nazi fanboy, of all things.  I mean busting out gas chambers?  Creepy as hell.  Suffice to say, he continues to be way more of an intimating villain then Ra's ever was.  Granted, it always helps when you character is being played by Neal McDonough, instead of some dude with limited acting experience.  Oh, and Damien has a family too, so he seems to have a lot of different sides to him.

 

Looks like it is Felicity's turn to be clinging to death during the big mid-season cliffhanger.  Yeah, I don't see her dying.  This show isn't going to go there unless they really want to loose a good portion of their fanbase.  Plus, I still think Oliver's reaction at the graveside would be much bigger if it was her.  I'm still leaning towards either Quentin or Donna, but after tonight, I'm actually wondering about Laurel.  They dropped some pretty big anvils there, but would they really go through with that?  I mean, like her or not, she is the Black Canary now, and I just can't see it.

 

The Oliver/Felicity proposal was pretty good compared to most shows, even though I still have to look past the fact that Oliver is still hiding his son from her.

 

Also, I did find it amusing that Oliver was all "Felicity!!!" after he destroyed the gas chamber, and pretty much only paid attention to her, leaving Diggle and Thea to just walk out on their own.  I get he's in love with her and everything, but maybe a moment for your sister and best friend, Oliver? 

 

This is the type of Malcolm I like.  The one who snarks on everyone and is technically teaming up with them, but clearly has his own reasons for it.  Plus, it was one of the rare times they paired up him and Quentin for scenes, which I really got a kick out of.  That's a pairing I kind of want to see more of it.

 

Still unsure what the plan is for Andy in the long run.

 

Great seeing Curtis again and his husband for the first time, but I hope introducing the guy doesn't mean something bad is going to happen to him.

 

In other news, flashbacks continue to suck.  Only now it has CGI sharks that are about as bad as the ones in those horrible SyFy movies.  What a waste of time.

Edited December 10, 2015 by thuganomics85

[bijoux]

I'm still working through the thread, but I've got to say this really was a good hour of TV. My main complaint, as pretty much always, is that no scene is allowed to breathe, ever. Like, my God. Plus the gas chamber (if someone has an alternate explanation for this, I would really love to hear it) and the flashbacks. Why will no one teach that actress how to act?! At least Conklin is back. The only one out of the entire crew who knows how to.

 

Is it really too much to ask that villains get glorious comeuppances and violent, gory deaths? That's all I ask for the holidays.

 

Not for the holidays. That happens in May.

 

 

I did love that Donna had that ring scoped out and evaluated in 1.4 seconds. Never change, Donna! (Also, please never leave.) Unfortunately, as sweet as I found every conversation, it was tainted for me.

 

 

 

I liked seeing Oliver finally kicking ass again. Clearly, he just needs some more solo missions to get his groove back.

 

Donna is truly the best. I think my favorite moment of hers was her smushing Felicity's face.

 

Oliver delivering a beat down is another scene that should have gone on a bit longer. And as much as I enjoyed it - it really was a nice holiday present for me - that shot from below while he was hitting a Ghost didn't work for me.

 

Oliver and Felicity killed me in all their scenes together. I hate them and their stupid, incredible chemistry so much, because they make me forget all about secrets and lies while I revel in what amazing partners they are to each other, in every sense of the word. I don’t know why the show feels like they have to throw artificial obstacles in their way when they are so effortlessly perfect together. Damn you, SA and EBR!

 

They are diabolical. Why, why are they so good when they are allowed to be? And man, Oliver's, "It was a holiday party", really got to me.

 

Wish they would give Oliver a running opponent. Having to run against someone who wants to destroy him politically while facing DD who wants to just destroy him would be a damn good storyline.

 

 

 

Im kind of sad that DD didn't make a joke about Green Arrows lack of facial hair.

Ain't nobody in SC with a death wish that strong. That's the biggest endorsement I can give to these people.

 

Heh. That would have been great. A shave for the holidays? How nice.

 

I agree with many of the things you said. The team letting their guard down, Malcolm and Quentin needing to be addressed, the need for DD to have better henchmen than the Ghosts who are starting to look more like an annoyance than a threat and Laurel being on the hotline. Although that last one is clearly because of plot so that she didn't get taken with the others.

 

Man, Laurel was likable this episode. And I believed her when she found Mini Felicity adorable!

That was a really nice and warm delivery.

 

I wonder why Felicity hasn't noticed a massive electricity drain for the corn/algae grow cavern? Lots of electricity for seeing at least a football field or two's worth of crop.

 

 

Malcolm? Shouldn't you read your predecessor's journals or whatever so you too can do the Darth throat squeeze and telekineticly throw folks around? Damien was supposed to be a contemporary of your teacher/ Nyssa's dad. Maybe do your research? Keep the snark. Also, green looks good on you too.

 

 

I also loved Lil' 'Licity... until she was written as gaping at the RC Chopper of Doom. Then again, she got to be tackled by Oliver, which isn't entirely a horrid experience. Painful, possibly, but the child is alive to complain. And be recruited to Palmer Tech's STEM initiative for girls. *g*

 

 

PS: Why not ask Curtis, as Oliver, to see where the phone pinged to? Since Curtis is aware that Felicity was kidnapped. Curtis also seems to get on well with his boss. I hope with Felicity down ( not out), that Curtis steps up and dazzles.

That's a great point about missing the electricity drain.

 

I don't really mind Malcolm not knowing about DD's powers from Ra's' journals. DD lost to Ra's after all, so I'm working on the assumption that he's developed his skills since his time in the League.

 

Man, with her and William last week, what is it with these kids and their lack of self-preservation skills?

 

As for Curtis, there's only one explanation. Lack of time.

[bijoux]

QL's ADORABLE nose scrunch immediately after being busted by Felicity.

Then, instead of the expected "daughter," he said "boyfriend: "Did you say boyfriend? I thought we were just on a date." SO CUTE!

 

If Donna says he's her boyfriend, then it's a done deal.

 

 

2. Damien Darhk, happily reminding us that he's evvvvvvvvvvvviiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiil! My favorite moment was a tie between his decision to take a glass of wine from a party he was crashing and his carefully pointing out to Oliver that he's a bad guy.

 

..............................

 

4. Also, why, exactly, did Oliver need Poppy to come with him on the shark dive if all she was going to do was stand there on the beach and watch him get almost eaten by a shark? Did I miss something? (I'm sure I missed something, which is part of the problem here.)

 

5. See, this - Felicity, Thea and Diggle getting kidnapped - I would have bought as a reason for an Arrow/Flash crossover. "We need to protect winged people from immortal dudes so we're heading to people without superpowers," not so much.

 

2. I imagine Felicity being squicked out that she and the supervillain de jour share a taste in wies.

 

4. He needed her to give him a diving lesson. On solid ground. Which could have been done in the cave. ... Yeah.

 

5. Yes! That would have been a great reason for a crossover. Here's hoping someone on the writing team catches wind of it and jots it down for next season.

 

You know what I hate [love]? That Arrow made me love a public proposal. Because they did it right. Because Oliver and Felicity spent a good chunk of the episode telling each other they want to be married. AND THEN Oliver made his public proposal a ~symbol of hope~ to the city. KILL ME NOW.

I know! I kind of hate them. And love them.

 

Anyone else feel like Damien's family/home were stuck in a time warp or something? It felt so old fashioned.

 

Also I love DD. I really do. He's matched Slade levels of greatness for me as far as villains go.

Ooooh. That's really good. Or, what if they're stuck in that corn field somewhere? Real or not real still to be revealed.

 

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Slade is still my man because of his direct connection to Oliver. But Darhk can have shotgun.

 

I'm just gazing at all the Olicity gifs and I noticed Laurel... WHY OH WHY DOES SHE SHUT DOWN LIKE THAT AND NOT MOVE?! It's not natural! She looks like something out of Madame Tussauds.

 

Hello! I was too wrapped up in the sweetness of Oliver carrying Felicity out and thinking how it would be nice if Dig had offered Thea a hand to get out to notice this, but man alive.

 

Another thing about Laurel is that they really do need to give her a new skill or two. They had Felicity whacking bad duded with a pipe and I'm not seeing much difference with BC's tonfa fighting.

 

 

I'm pretty sure if they told Lance everything surrounding Sara's death, he would be the S5 Big Bad.

GASP. There are so many great ideas for the next season cropping up.

 

Was anyone else a little sad that we didn't get a Diggle reaction shot to the proposal? We got everyone else except Diggle. 

You know he's off being a blubbering mess on the sidelines somewhere. It's finally happening!

 

 

I noticed a few  things.  One, I think Laurel was actually handling the Hotline as a part of official DA business.  The message that sent her to see her father said it was from the DA's office.  That at least makes more sense then the team just randomly deciding that Laurel should answer the phones.

 

 

 

The third thing is kind of a big deal.  I don't think that the gas in the chamber would have killed Felicity, Thea and Diggle. 

 

  His first lab rat died and so they dialed down the ratio of the pond scum formula.  He was HAPPY that he didn't die so quickly at least.  He then was going to use F,T & D as his next group of lab rats.  They certainly survived longer than the first guy and after they were rescued, DD led  his partners to his underground bunker and says he's duplicated an atmosphere like on Everest.  His partners say "I thought the tests failed" and DD says, "Not the last one."

 

 Dahrk was fine if Oliver's loved ones died, but he was actually trying to create a formula that would NOT kill  anyone.  I think what was being pumped into the gas chamber was the same weak atmosphere found in his pleasure dome of corn.  How he already had the corn growing so tall is something I can't answer but yeah, I don't think Felicity, Thea or Diggle were actually in danger of dying. 

 

I'm really digging both of these ideas.

[AudienceofOne]

I don't know. Arrow episodes always try to do too much and the episode pacing suffers. This was good but disjointed so I couldn't relax and enjoy any of it. If we could have have scrapped last week's shocker and made this a two-parter it would have been better.

And there should be a Godwin's Law for TV shows. Enough with that shit.

[millennium]

I thought Laurel seemed more likable this episode.   It's like the writers stopped trying to force the character.

 

I suspect this is a minority opinion, but I wouldn't mind if Felicity died and Laurel was able to find her way back into Oliver's affections, establishing the Green Arrow/Black Canary romance we know from the comics.

[chaos is welcome]

Let's count the death anvils:

Thea in her scene with Malcolm where she thought she was cured of her bloodlust and Malcolm was all ominous and concerned about what it meant.

Laurel with Quentin and him saying he basically doesn't know what he would do if something happened to her.

Felicity with well, everything, and the bleeding and the general being near death.

Oh, and Quentin maybe being exposed as a double agent.

Any others?

Laurel being the one to say "you are found that thing again" where he blames himself for everything. Hella ironic since you could argue s that sometimes SHE blames him for everything lol.

[bijoux]

 

I don't know why him protecting her face gets to me, but it does. So much.

 

And can we talk about how she was kneeling during their convo in the cage? *thud*

 

Also, did he really say, "Come here, baby," when he was getting her out of that damn chamber? I've read comments that he did. Also, whoever deciphers what he said to her when they met Curtis' husband gets cyber heart eyes from me.

 

Also also, this is how you do a party! You have fun, and revelations (proposal, Donna and Lance), and the villain crashing like a BAMF. Not whatever that benefit was in 4x07.

Edited December 10, 2015 by bijoux

[Happy Harpy]

OK, so I watched this one.

 

Oliver and Felicity were great, ITA with everyone. I enjoyed their scenes, and they could have been perfect -actually, out of context, they were. But just knowing what happened during the crossover took me out of it at times, especially after the "you're not the only one who can keep secrets". It made me groan aloud. And I was left with the bitter aftertaste that all the greatness was the fruit from the poisonous tree, as lawyers would say (Hi, M.Guggenheim!).

 

Was I the only one who thought of Maleficent, when Darhk crashed the party? He just needed horns and a crow and voilà.

 

I loved Diggle, finally he had scenes with Andy. I hope that Lyla gave him a huge hug, and why wasn't Baby Sara there for Christmas? If there's one moment when a toddler can be around... I think there's something else going on with Andy. At time, it seemed like Diggle's words got to him, and he was refraining from saying something. Hopefully, the year of Diggle is coming now that stoopid launching is done.

My head canon didn't adjust yet to the fact that Andy is younger (at least, he looks so much younger imo). 

 

Looooved Donna, loooooved Donna and Quentin. He seemed quite smitten and happy to me when she confirmed "boyfriend". They have great chemistry imo and if it means more Quentin/Felicity scene, great!

I also loved Curtis hugging Donna in the background, after Felicity and the others were taken.

 

"The others" was a problem, by the way. They were "the others". Oliver knew two things last season, IIRC, one of them included Thea, and I might have loved all the O/F interaction, but a couple of seconds at least should have been spared on her (instead of several Canary cries, for example). I don't even dare ask for Diggle. Well, at least there was a scene close to OTA at the beginning.

 

Imo, the random Darhk family scene could be a shoutout (if not a dig) at fan speculation refuting the idea that he could be Felicity's dad because him playing house would have been ridiculous. If NM wasn't way older than WH, I'd say that noticing her on this show would lead to belligerent sexual tension, LOL.

Only John Barrowman, imo, can make a casual "I'm Ra's Al Ghul" work. I'm not fond of Malcolm, but JB is a master of snark.

 

I believed that the flashback would be better this year. Nope. They're sucking the life out of the show, it's kind of like Laurel scenes in S2. I have the feeling it's supposed to lead somewhere that will be important at the end of the season, but in the meanwhile they forget to tell a story imo, unlike with Shado and Slade.

 

I'm glad to say that I liked K.Cassidy's acting when Laurel mentioned mini Felicity, I never saw her so natural in a good way (if she and EBR are friends, maybe it was more KC than Laurel). But the O/L scenes are still plagued with anti-chemistry imo. They just don't work together for me, and it's a huge problem since it's still Oliver's show.

And above all, this episode showed why imo Laurel doesn't work the way the writers want her to work, i.e as a main character. As it was mentioned upthread, Felicity, Diggle and Thea had to be removed from the equation for her to get her moment to shine, just like Oliver had to be removed from the equation for her to become a Mask. This time, it was obvious imo that Diggle (maybe I missed something, but why would Damian kidnap Diggle if he doesn't know that Oliver is the Arrow? Because of Andy?) and Thea got the shaft since otherwise, there was no reason for Oliver to turn to her in particular. And since I prefer Diggle and Thea to Laurel, I'd rather see them than her.

Moreover, having her use several times the Canary cry in a row only stressed that she's a one-trick pony imo. Why couldn't they keep Sara's bombs? The cry is so ridiculous, I can't get used to it...and honestly, Laurel or Canary bombs would have around the same efficiency.

I wasn't too fond of Laurel/Quentin scenes either, it was all deja-vu for me and the stilted acting was back with a vengeance. I know that Quentin would do anything for his daugherS (don't mandarine Sara, writers, and forget that Quentin has another daughter now she's on LoT) so the anvils were falling. I hope they're for Laurel. But I'm afraid that Quentin will sacrifice herself for her. And I don't want it because Donna would be sad and I don't want sad Donna.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[apinknightmare]

Also, did he really say, "Come here, baby," when he was getting her out of that damn chamber? I've read comments that he did.

No, I think he just said, "Come here, let's go."

Edited December 10, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

I did love seeing Felicity kick some ass after they got out. Turns out EBR can swing a weapon much more convincingly than KC.

Another thing about Laurel is that they really do need to give her a new skill or two. They had Felicity whacking bad duded with a pipe and I'm not seeing much difference with BC's tonfa fighting.

Looking at the two moments together, I definitely know who I'd run from in a fight:

https://twitter.com/OverLordSmoak/status/674811325533560833

 

And all Diggle's Marine buddies. Yikes. How exactly did they not have the police in on multiple homicides and kidnapping with that many witnesses?

NCIS: Star City has jurisdiction, but obviously the worst police force ever forgot to call them.

[bijoux]

"The others" was a problem, by the way. They were "the others". Oliver knew two things last season, IIRC, one of them included Thea, and I might have loved all the O/F interaction, but a couple of seconds at least should have been spared on her (instead of several Canary cries, for example). I don't even dare ask for Diggle. Well, at least there was a scene close to OTA at the beginning.

Take comfort in the fact that the first thing Oliver asks about in the cage is to ask about John and Thea. And he and Felicity sort of take Thea's hands to drag her out of the room where the chamber was which I found sweet.

 

I am really not impressed with Cisco's skills going by the collar. It's really ineffective most of the times. Darhk and his associates just walked out unbothered when Laurel activated it the first time and the guys from the cages recuperated really quickly.

 

I really want to see more of the associates after the break. The two who got to speak show potential. And it's better than just bodies, which is what the Ghosts basically are.

 

Why is AJ suddenly Andy Jr? It sounds weird, especially when it's repeated in quick succession.

Looking at the two moments together, I definitely know who I'd run from in a fight:

https://twitter.com/OverLordSmoak/status/674811325533560833

This is something I honestly don't get. That's Katie Cassidy's double, right? Why isn't she better?! I mean, that's EBR there (not a stuntperson) and she is wielding that pipe like a pro!

[cambridgeguy]

Damien Darhk absolutely pounded on Oliver's face and he can still go out in public looking OK?  Man, that guy must punch like a (weak) child.

 

By the way, don't real life politicians often wear bulletproof vests under their clothing when they go out in public?  Oliver called out a dangerous man - perhaps he and his close friends should consider taking precautions, especially since they're all pretty certain that DD is still alive.

Edited December 10, 2015 by cambridgeguy

[tv echo]

Questions, questions, questions...

 

-- Is the Canary Cry magical?  It is loud enough and piercing enough to incapacitate bad guys and crack glass, but it is discerning enough to leave the good guys still able to fight.

 

-- If the Canary Cry can crack glass, wouldn't the GA have a trick arrow that could do the same thing?  Like maybe an explosive arrow or sonic arrow?

 

-- If DD can magically choke someone, why didn't he just stop the Canary Cry by magically choking the BC?

 

--Centuries-old DD has a wife and young daughter?  WTF?!  And we had problems imagining DD settling down with Donna in Vegas for a few years.  

 

-- Was the following line a hint or a red herring?  Quentin (to Laurel): "You just be careful out there, all right? 'Cause I don't know what I'd do if anything were to happen to you. In fact, that's not true. I know exactly what I would do. And it'd be ugly."

 

-- When they showed Laurel with her arms crossed in the Arrow Bunker and then subsequently cut to her in the exact same stance in the police station (though facing in a different direction), did anyone else imagine her being picked up and moved to a different set?

 

-- Can we infer that Oliver was going to come clean about his son in his conversation with Felicity when captured by DD, or am I being optimistic?  Felicity: "But at the Christmas party from hell, you said you were gonna propose and you didn't because you weren't sure our relationship could survive this kind of life." Oliver: "It was a holiday party. And I had more to say, but we were attacked."

 

-- Can we pretend that the Oliver in 408 was an Earth 3 pod person who temporarily replaced Oliver for one week?

 

- What did FB Oliver retrieve from the wreck, and do we even care?

 

Arrow : Oliver and Felicity 4x09 All Scenes Part 1(I Was Gonna Propose)
Published on Dec 9, 2015, by KalElHDClips

 

Arrow : Oliver and Felicity 4x09 All Scenes Part 2(Oliver Proposes & Felicity is Shot)
Published on Dec 9, 2015, by KalElHDClips

Edited December 10, 2015 by tv echo

[MSquared]

Is it just me or have they totally ignored BM?  And, as a Christmas wish, can the continue to ignore BM?

 

Donna takes the cake in this one.  From her screams at finding the ring (having been by to visit before, I'm shocked it took her this long) to her and Lance (they are just too cute together!)  CR gets the gold star.  And I would love for Laurel to find out due to Felicity's babbling at some point.  

 

On that note, I was really avoiding the anvils in the Laurel/Quentin convo about if he/she lost the other.  And I really couldn't tell which one they were aimed at.  So much more effective that the "Next time on Arrow" bit at the end.  

 

Olicity-So GREAT!  And having read some other stuff here, I am thinking they may not be breaking up over BM/Will.  Who I will continue to ignore, like the show seemed to this week.

[bijoux]

Is it just me or have they totally ignored BM?  And, as a Christmas wish, can the continue to ignore BM?

 

I would love for Laurel to find out due to Felicity's babbling at some point.  

 

 

While the whole secret keeping storyline would be great to just forget ever reared its ugly head, this was to be expected. Practically nothing is being addressed in an episode straight after the one it's been brought up. So this was a reprieve but it will sadly pass. Though I will hold out hope that it will be this Oliver and Felicity dealing with the fall out.

 

Or maybe Donna just swings by her office. I'm so glad to finally meet Quentin's baby girl. We've got a mani-padi appointment at 2. Where's your bag?

[kes0704]

I have to say I really loved this episode. After last weeks episode I thought my residual anger might affect my thoughts about this one, but nope, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Oliver and Felicity were back to their normal selves, open, honest and talking things through together and it was wonderful to see, there was actual cohesiveness between the team, Laurel was useful and most important of all Oliver was back to being a kickass fighter.

For me, this episode was Arrow at its best and reaffirms why I love this show.

If I have one regret, it's that this episode follows the awful events of 408. I really wish we could have more consistency in plotting and writing quality rather than swinging between truly enjoyable episodes and abysmal ones.

[Guest]

I'm rewatching some scenes (bless Olicity Queen on youtube!) and I love how Felicity does a Risky Business slide in the loft after her mom screams her head off. Haha. That whole scene was so great. CR and EBR have such good chemistry. 

Edited December 10, 2015 by Guest

[dtissagirl]

I think this moment is my favorite in the entire episode:

 

 

[FortKnox]

Let's look at Christmas for the Arrow family.

Season one, Walter gets kidnapped. Season two, Roy gets injected with Mirakuru and Barry is hit by lighting and almost died. But, on the bright side Oliver finally gets a mask.

Last year Oliver gets his ass kicked by Ras and left for dead. And now this year Oliver asks Felicity to marry and few minutes after Felicity gets shot up and left for dead.

It's official, Christmas sucks for the Arrow crew.

[KirkB]

I would also like to take a moment to give a shout out to whoever makes armored limos in Star City. I mean, that thing held up pretty well considering how many hits it was taking. Sure it didn't help the driver much but glass can only hold up for so long. And Dark might want to hire Ghosts from somewhere other than the Stormtrooper academy, because all those rounds and they mostly just shot the top part of the car. Yes, Felicity got hit, somehow (I'm still not sure when or how) but every single bullet missed Oliver. Their main target.

[dcinmb]

I thought this was adorable too T_T

 

It bugged that after kicking in the glass door, Oliver remained planted in the doorway and gestured to Felicity with his hand, shouting, "Hey! Come on, let's go!" and just stood there while Felicity  gasped and staggered toward him. He should have charged into the chamber and swept her into his arms, saying, "I've got you!"

 

 

8. And if Arrow had to ruin a Christmas carol, just as glad it was that one.  (Can you imagine if "Joy to the World" had been playing instead? Actually, let's not.)

 

Just imagine if they'd used "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas."

[Chaser]

I think this moment is my favorite in the entire episode:

 

 

Holiday Party starting Emily Bett Rickards.

 

That entire sequence was a Rom Com and it was amazing.

[Primetimer]

Parties! Kidnappings! Cheerful villains! Shocking twists! Boring flashbacks! It's like old times.

Read the story

[NumberCruncher]

Emily's comedic timing this whole episode was impeccable. Her comedy lightened what could have been a typical, overly grim Arrow episode. Yet another reason why they would be insane to kill Felicity.

I'm not mad at how Oliver chose to get them out of the gas chamber. I'm glad he didn't run into it considering it was filled with toxic vapors. The whole point was to get out of it as fast as possible.

[bethy]

I have to give KC props for making Laurel look genuinely happy about Oliver's proposal and Felicity's acceptance. Because that must have been a seriously bitter pill to swallow as the original love interest for the show.

[Kromm]

It's funny. You'd think Evil Corn would be unique, but Stephen King beat this show to it by decades.

[kismet]

I've finally got to see it, I will check up on the first 4 pages... but overall it was a pretty jammed pack edge of my seat show. I enjoyed it. There wasn't any parts that were bad, or at least that we didn't know was going to be bad ahead of time. And the some of the dialogue was really snappy. Even the proposal convo with Curtis was better in context. Gotta say I love MM, JB is just the best. Hands down had the best quippy dialogue this episode.

 

And I totally see why they choose Lil Drummer Boy... it worked for that scene to increase the power of the scene. And I liked the effect, I feel like they do it a lot with Neely's music, however the uniqueness of LDB made it more powerful considering the whole episode.

 

The proposal was so sweet... It would have been the almost perfect proposal if we didn't have the BM secret still floating around. I'm thinking my raft got a little bigger that they might actually have FS & OQ work it out with less character damage. The melodrama is going to be insane with BM. The whole FS we work through the difficult times is the the point of marriage. I'm believing that they might not severely break up the couple, if they break up them at all. It will still be touch & go with a sensitive touch, but I hope they are able to do it.

 

That is of course if FS survives - because she dead right? (eyeroll) FS died and is in the grave, mystery solved. Enter the sarcasm here, because the anvils were strong with this episode. FS is almost definitely not in the grave. However, I can't wait for the weeks of TPTB explaining to the media how FS is dead. And i have to give props to EBR for being all coy about rings in that on-set interview that was shot during filming. And WM is getting quite skilled at mincing facts. The grave was referenced in the preview, not the episode. Her answers are going to need a lot of analysis. I trust her words at face value even less now than I trust MG.

[dcinmb]

I'm not mad at how Oliver chose to get them out of the gas chamber. I'm glad he didn't run into it considering it was filled with toxic vapors. The whole point was to get out of it as fast as possible.

He could've held his breath. Poppy taught him how in the flashback. ;-)

[Guest]

I can't stop looking at Thea's little scrunchy-nose smile after O/F get engaged. She's so adorable and cute and I need more of that.

[KenyaJ]

Also, did he really say, "Come here, baby," when he was getting her out of that damn chamber? I've read comments that he did. 

It wasn't audible, but every time I watched that scene (and I refuse to divulge how many times I've watched it), that's what I thought he was murmuring. I wouldn't swear by it, but my lip reading skills are generally pretty decent.

 

I watched the episode two more times before I went to bed last night.  I can't even remember the last time I wanted to do that, but it speaks to what a great, entertaining episode it was.

[kismet]

Holy shit look at EBRs muscles 

 

Seriously, I was like screaming from my couch - this is why FS needs training on the show, because hot damn EBR has got the body and the technique to seriously kick ass mask or no mask!

[kismet]

Also I want to dedicate this post to Donna Smoak.

 

She is a blessing to us all. 

 

God bless. 

That Hanukkah sweater was priceless!! So bless CR & the wardrobe dept because both of them really brought it this week. 

[bijoux]

 And i have to give props to EBR for being all coy about rings in that on-set interview that was shot during filming.

 

If they filmed the party and the engagement in order, she would have been telling the absolute truth. While knowing everything. :) Frankly, it's SA's comment about the bowl being the worst place to hide the ring that's making me giggle and snort. Because Oliver went and stuck it in a box of Christmas ornaments during the holiday season! I cannot stress how much I love this. Hopefully he stashes any surprise presents for Felicity at Dig's in the future.

 

It wasn't audible, but every time I watched that scene (and I refuse to divulge how many times I've watched it), that's what I thought he was murmuring. I wouldn't swear by it, but my lip reading skills are generally pretty decent.

 

I am pretty happy to accept this. Now prove your mettle and help me with what he's mumbling during the exchange with Curtis and his husband.

[quarks]

 

Just imagine if they'd used "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas."

 

 

Come to think of it, that would have been an excellent choice. I know they went with "Little Drummer Boy," at least in part because all of the "pum pum pum" stuff fit in with the machine gun fire. But the "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" would have fit the scene just as well, even if its pretty melancholy tone would have been a dead giveaway.  (Though honestly I think most viewers were braced for something bad to happen in the last minute.)

 

The hilarious choice, of course, would have been "Here Comes Santa Claus," MACHINE GUN FIRE EVERYWHERE, but I think it's just as well that Arrow didn't go there.

 

Other thoughts:

 

1. I'm sorry that I didn't add it to the "Laurel fails as a human being" count, but yes, she did come off as pretty cavalier that three of her friends - one of whom is his roommate - had been kidnapped by a guy who likes to shoot up adorable children at the beach.

 

2. I don't want to be harsh on Diggle, exactly, but anyone else think that his friends are just sending him people they don't like much to work security for him?  "Oh, John Diggle's asking for bodyguards again. For a Queen event. Yeah. Doug was late about four times this month, and I think Tim was trying to flirt with my wife. Who else?"

 

3. In rechecking two scenes, the first thing Oliver did after hugging Felicity in the cell was ask about John and Thea, and in the gas chamber scene, after the frantic I love yous with Felicity he did head over to Thea and check on her as well - looking frantic. At least some of that was looking for some way to break through the glass, granted, but it was also checking on Thea as well as Felicity.

 

4. In the H.I.V.E. jail cell, Oliver told Felicity that he was planning on saying something else back at the Christmas holiday party before Damien popped in to discuss Oliver's wine choices.  I'm not sure if that "something else" was about Samantha and William, especially since Oliver had already hesitated on the proposal, but I think the scene could be read that way.

 

5. I have a practical question, though. The last we saw of the ring, it was hidden in the Xmas ornaments. So, did Oliver retrieve it after Felicity, Diggle and Thea were kidnapped (unlikely) or after he rescued them but before the tree lighting ceremony/proposal?

[blixie]

This was a lo of dumb fun, and I loved KC throughout, she looks so pretty this season and I continue to love the cheesy as hell Canary Cry, but the whole thing played like a pity bone thrown to her, you can do better Katie, I've seen it make your peace with how miscast you were/are, and let Laurel go to THE GRAVE.

 

So much Olicity goodness, SmoaknLance was everything I imagined, and I need Mama Smoak's blue Santa hat. 

 

I'm still kinda meh on Dark, he's like a menacing Magician. Good to see he has something he cares about that Oliver et all can leverage right back at him. 

 

I enjoyed every one of Malcolm's snarks, but totally thought Thea was going after him. I can't engage with this show seriously enough to have even noticed the Nazi allusions and I hadn't though at all about featuring a gas chamber in the middle of Chanauka, and then left off with Felicity's "death". Merry Christmas folks! RME.

[lexicon]

I have to give KC props for making Laurel look genuinely happy about Oliver's proposal and Felicity's acceptance. Because that must have been a seriously bitter pill to swallow as the original love interest for the show.

 

Oh there was a moment there, in the lead up to the proposal, just before Oliver actually asked the question where (to me) you could tell LL figured out exactly what was happening and it showed all over her face. 

 

On the whole while I didn't find her presence any more palatable in this episode than the others (her seeming so blase about Felicity, Diggle and Thea being taken was particularly bad) there was the one scene at the beginning where she joked about mini-Felicity and it came across as so genuine and believable that I enjoyed it. It reminded me of the only other FS/LL scene that I liked, where Oliver had 'died' and she and Felicity shared a simple moment where in the face of everyone's else's growing certainty that Oliver was dead, they both held on to the belief that he was alive. It was just a simple nod of acknowledgment but it seemed genuine and believable for two people, who up to that moment in the series hadn't had that much interaction before.

 

Of course then they had to go and ruin in by trying to make them BFF's in the blink of an eye and without properly laying the foundation for why two women who hadn't so much as had a friendly non-vigilante conversation on screen suddenly bonded. When you contrast that with how Felicity and Thea can spend seasons seemingly standing right next to each other without actually speaking directly to each other, it just makes me shake my head.

 

The process of writing out this post, actually made me realise that its not so much the FS/LL relationship that irks me but the handling of it. In those scenes where KC manages to come across as genuine and the interaction is not forced by the writers in an attempt to go see Felicity likes her you should too, then I'm okay with it. The problem of course is that with both the writers and KC being so hit-or-miss, you end up with a lot more of the bad than the good and that just sours the entire thing.

[Chasity]

 

 

Come to think of it, that would have been an excellent choice. I know they went with "Little Drummer Boy," at least in part because all of the "pum pum pum" stuff fit in with the machine gun fire. But the "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" would have fit the scene just as well, even if its pretty melancholy tone would have been a dead giveaway.  (Though honestly I think most viewers were braced for something bad to happen in the last minute.)

 

The hilarious choice, of course, would have been "Here Comes Santa Claus," MACHINE GUN FIRE EVERYWHERE, but I think it's just as well that Arrow didn't go there.

 

Other thoughts:

 

1. I'm sorry that I didn't add it to the "Laurel fails as a human being" count, but yes, she did come off as pretty cavalier that three of her friends - one of whom is his roommate - had been kidnapped by a guy who likes to shoot up adorable children at the beach.

 

2. I don't want to be harsh on Diggle, exactly, but anyone else think that his friends are just sending him people they don't like much to work security for him?  "Oh, John Diggle's asking for bodyguards again. For a Queen event. Yeah. Doug was late about four times this month, and I think Tim was trying to flirt with my wife. Who else?"

 

3. In rechecking two scenes, the first thing Oliver did after hugging Felicity in the cell was ask about John and Thea, and in the gas chamber scene, after the frantic I love yous with Felicity he did head over to Thea and check on her as well - looking frantic. At least some of that was looking for some way to break through the glass, granted, but it was also checking on Thea as well as Felicity.

 

4. In the H.I.V.E. jail cell, Oliver told Felicity that he was planning on saying something else back at the Christmas holiday party before Damien popped in to discuss Oliver's wine choices.  I'm not sure if that "something else" was about Samantha and William, especially since Oliver had already hesitated on the proposal, but I think the scene could be read that way.

 

5. I have a practical question, though. The last we saw of the ring, it was hidden in the Xmas ornaments. So, did Oliver retrieve it after Felicity, Diggle and Thea were kidnapped (unlikely) or after he rescued them but before the tree lighting ceremony/proposal?

Oliver is in a suit and Felicity is wearing a different dress and hairstyle during the proposal, they went home after the rescue to change for the tree lighting ceremony and that's when he got the ring. 

Edited December 10, 2015 by Chasity

[kismet]

I found one additional complaint - for me the ending was not cliffy enough. But I guess that is better since they probably knew they were gonna have a lengthy preview directly following the moment that would ruin the cliffhanger anyway. I wish they had not had OQ drive the limo off. Rather for me I would have enjoyed the show being cut with LDB playing the limo being shot up and then DD happy family hug. The whole pulling FS out of the limo ruined the momentum of the scene for me.

As for her injuries, I'm also trying to figure out where & what. But l wondering if the fact that FS was on the ground is how she sustained a gun shot wound because there was no armoring on the undercarriage.

[Guest]

Don't mind me, just rewatching the proposal and Oliver legit gets choked up when he says "She is the one who lights my way."

 

It's okay. I'm okay. 

[dtissagirl]

Oh there was a moment there, in the lead up to the proposal, just before Oliver actually asked the question where (to me) you could tell LL figured out exactly what was happening and it showed all over her face.

 

HA. I caught this too. There totally was a smell the fart moment going on on her face when Oliver was saying he was particularly grateful for Felicity. Right after the dorky pointing.

 

Involuntary NOTP Syndrome, it is a serious disease, okay.

 

edited to add:

 

THE DORKY POINTING IS ALSO MY FAVORITE PART OF THIS EPISODE.

 

Edited December 10, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Chaser]

I totally missed it. I need a GIF.