S09.E09: The Platonic Permutation

[CleoCaesar]

by making Amy suddenly leap

 

It was hardly a sudden leap, IMO. It was seasons in the making. In that respect, Amy is one of the few characters to really evolve (and in a realistic, believable way). She may have started as a nerdy wallflower with poor social skills, but over the past 4+ seasons she's made friends, had a boyfriend, learned to interact with people, and has taken an interest in looking nice and even online-dated. Okay, the wardrobe might still need some work, but there's nothing particularly abrupt or unrealistic about Amy's character progression.

[sinkwriter]

 

I don't recall that Amy was trying to change Sheldon. She wanted some basic adult respect and consideration from him. He has made no attempt to even understand how she felt and it seems like she just let him off the hook for ever having to.

 

I think this is partly why I'm disappointed with the direction of this episode's story for Sheldon and Amy. To me, Amy had a legitimate issue with Sheldon and his behavior (especially his rudeness and inconsideration). So for her to immediately want to get back together with him after one nice time at an aquarium and have HIM reject her... it bugged me because it felt like they were discounting any of the reasons for the break-up in the first place and putting all the control into Sheldon's hands instead of allowing for the idea that Amy had a right to break up with him and stay broken up with him. Now it's just turned into a standard plot point of a broken-hearted girl who doesn't get the guy.

 

I do appreciate the mature statement coming from Sheldon, about how he wasn't good at getting over her so he doesn't want to do it again. But I feel like putting this decision in his hands somehow forgives his previous bad behavior as if it didn't really exist and now makes it that Amy's sorry she broke up with him and he's awesome and now she's going to be pining and struggling to pretend to be just friends with him. When in truth he hasn't learned much of anything, or at least he hasn't shown that he's learned much of anything as far as treating her (or any woman) with more respect and care. He showed that last week by nitpicking that the girl from the ad was a few minutes late, and then he shut the door in her face.

 

I'm glad Sheldon decided not to get back together with her, but I wish he had more of a clue why that's a good thing.

[sinkwriter]

I will say this about the episode: I don't know if it's because I'm overtired today or what, but I almost cried laughing at that scene with Leonard in the orange lingerie. His attempts to make Penny laugh and his gyrations just killed me. I laughed so hard. In fact, that's the hardest I've laughed watching this show in a long time. Man, was that funny. 

 

Major kudos to Johnny for that one.

[Homily]

Thinking it over I'm just glad, considering the shameless plundering from Friends, that they didn't pull a "we were on a break" crap with Amy and Sheldon.  Sheldon accepted that Amy could date if she wanted to and they didn't endlessly debate what being on a break actually means.  So yay for that :).

[Winston Wolfe]

Watched "the Launch Acceleration" in syndication tonight.  It occurred to me that wardrobe does an incredible job in "frumping up" Mayim.  That cosplay scene at the end, where Amy is dressed in a TOS Star Trek uniform?  Amy is straight up hot, easily in a league with either Penny or Bernadette.  Or maybe its just the geek in me, not sure.

[UsernameFatigue]

I loved seeing Amy and Sheldon back together as friends and am glad that Sheldon turned down Amy's attempt at reuniting. I think they will eventually (at least I hope they do!) but I assume - and hope- that it will be after months more of spending time together as friends and realizing that they really are meant to be together. And as others have said Mayim was absolutely brilliant - the scene of her in the car when Sheldon said no was heartbreaking. When we finished watching the show (PVR'd) hubby asked if I was going to erase the epi as I normally would. I said no just because I want to watch that scene again.

 

Penny not knowing Leonard's birthday was not in the least believable. Besides the fact that she threw him a surprise party several years ago they have been a couple for a long time and friends even longer. And Penny finding out years ago that Leonard had never had a party would make her want to ensure that she made a fuss over his birthday every year after. She would hardly forget it. Dumb writing and unusual for a sitcom of this calibre.

Edited November 22, 2015 by UsernameFatigue

[dungeonwriter]

I know this sounds terrible, because Mayim is awesome but I wish Amy to escape this group and find happiness elsewhere. Seriously, Sheldon will never give her the intimacy and kindness she deserves. 

 

Hope Howard gets a sweet job at Elon Musk's company and is able to stand up to Bernedette. 

[DrSpaceman73]

Raj's girlfriend is a waste. She had what, two throwaway lines? Not her fault, but the writers do her no favors. Earlier this season there was a press release that she is a "regular" on the show now. Really? I fail to see it

A cliched Thanksgiving day "volunteer at the soup kitchen" and a cameo that was pretty meaningless.......a kid can't be far behind. Or maybe Howard's Cousin Oliver can come live with him soon.

[Homily]

A cliched Thanksgiving day "volunteer at the soup kitchen" and a cameo that was pretty meaningless.......a kid can't be far behind. Or maybe Howard's Cousin Oliver can come live with him soon.

 

That kind of stuff is usually done though in the mistaken belief that it can bolster flagging ratings.  Are the ratings for BBT slipping?  If not and they're running out of story ideas I wish they'd take a leaf from Everybody Loves Raymond's book and quit while they're ahead. 

[CleoCaesar]

Hope Howard gets a sweet job at Elon Musk's company and is able to stand up to Bernedette.

 

He can stand up anytime he wants to Bernadette as soon as he starts cleaning, cooking, doing laundry, and being an adult man. Not the lazy, messy, video-game-playing, money-wasting manchild he appears to be right now.

[CousinOliver]

Raj's girlfriend is a waste. She had what, two throwaway lines? Not her fault, but the writers do her no favors. Earlier this season there was a press release that she is a "regular" on the show now. Really? I fail to see it

A cliched Thanksgiving day "volunteer at the soup kitchen" and a cameo that was pretty meaningless.......a kid can't be far behind. Or maybe Howard's Cousin Oliver can come live with him soon.

Perhaps I can...

[ari333]

Do you remember Amy and Sheldon's 1st date chaperoned by Penny ? The one where she says she used lab equipment to get an orgasm about 400 times ?  She always wanted intimacy, she just never knew how to get it. 

 

Yes. And that she uses her electric toothbrush for orgasms - a toothbrush that she named.. well IDK the name.. but she used it for masturbating.

[mojoween]

His name was Gerard.

[ari333]

His name was Gerard.

 

I totally love that you know the name. :)

[shapeshifter]

Yes. And that she uses her electric toothbrush for orgasms - a toothbrush that she named.. well IDK the name.. but she used it for masturbating.

Was this before or after she was aroused by the presence of Zack, which Sheldon had to explain to her was arousal? I look back on that being the turning point for Amy after which she would never be satisfied with an asexual relationship. In an alternate universe where Amy is not aroused by Zack or any other man, she and Sheldon are very happy together.

[Homily]

I can't remember when she first talks about Gerard but it is around the time Leonard is dating Priya and Penny is not in a relationship and is wistful about Leonard.  The talk about having her brain stimulated to achieve orgasm though does occur in the first episode where we meet Amy so while she may have been presented as someone who did not want a physical relationship she knew there were some benefits that she liked.  A lot!

[Granny58]

Whenever a show has a long scene with someone driving a car, and there's no really specific reason they need to be in a car, I am on edge the entire time waiting for the accident. So I was really glad that they didn't go there with that.

OH MY GOD!  I'M NOT WEIRD!

[Mislav]

I don't recall that Amy was trying to change Sheldon. She wanted some basic adult respect and consideration from him. He has made no attempt to even understand how she felt and it seems like she just let him off the hook for ever having to.

Actually, I think it has been made very clear that Sheldon does understand Amy's POV, but his phobias make it difficult for him to engage in physical intimacy with her. He doesn't like to discuss it because it isn't a great feeling when you can't give a person you love what she wants and there would be no point discussing it if it would turn out that he wasn't ready over and over again. I doubt that most of people would be this harsh on Sheldon if gender roles were reversed.

[ari333]

If Sheldon doesnt want to have sex with Amy why did he ask or care if she had had sex with another man? I don't get it. He doesn't want her, but he doesn't want anyone else to have her? Yikes.

Edited November 30, 2015 by ari333

[AnnaRose]

If Sheldon doesnt want to have sex with Amy why did he ask or care if she had had sex with another man? I don't get it. He doesn't want her, but he doesn't want anyone else to have her? Yikes.

 

To me it just seemed like Sheldon was curious when he asked her about that... especially since it seemed to be such an important thing to Amy that she was missing with Sheldon.  I could see how he might wonder if she went ahead and fulfilled that need/want, and what that might mean.  I wasn't at all surprised that he asked her.  But I never got the sense that he would have been angry if she said yes, or that he didn't want anyone else to have her at that point.  I think he had made peace with her not being his girlfriend.

[SmithW6079]

I doubt that most of people would be this harsh on Sheldon if gender roles were reversed.

 

People are harsh on Sheldon not because of his refusal to be intimate physically with Amy but because he's been an asshole toward her their entire relationship; the examples are too numerous to mention.

[possibilities]

As I recall, it wasn't just sex that was at issue, either. He generally was rude to her and didn't respect her work or have any interest in her or her life. All conversations were supposed to be revolving around him. He even treated them spending time together as something he gave her as concessions to her demands, not something he wanted, too. She was basically supposed to be at his beck and call, and invisible otherwise.

[Cranston]

The most unrealistic, unbelievable thing here is why Amy put up with such dreadful treatment from Sheldon all those years!  It's beyond funny, it's pathetic.

[Mislav]

People are harsh on Sheldon not because of his refusal to be intimate physically with Amy but because he's been an asshole toward her their entire relationship; the examples are too numerous to mention.

Saying that there are too many examples to mention is just the way of covering up the lack of arguments.

The most unrealistic, unbelievable thing here is why Amy put up with such dreadful treatment from Sheldon all those years! It's beyond funny, it's pathetic.

Not really.

He was mostly rude over her insistence of physical intimacy, which is understandable since she would make little to no effort to understand his point of view.

[okerry]

If Sheldon doesnt want to have sex with Amy why did he ask or care if she had had sex with another man? I don't get it. He doesn't want her, but he doesn't want anyone else to have her? Yikes.

Sheldon has been shown gradually opening up to the idea of physical intimacy for several seasons now. This was one more step. He's realizing that he could lose Amy if he continues to refuse her, because grown-up romantic relationships do involve sex. He's now having to decide if he's okay with seeing Amy move on to someone else, or does he want to do something about it himself? These decisions are a normal part of courtship and dating. It's just that Sheldon has taken a lot longer to get there than most men would and Amy has been patient with him for as long as she could.

[Homily]

And how do you mean "showed no interest in her life"? He certainly knows a lot about her preferences and hobies and they are often shown discussing their problems or even just their everyday lives.

 

In many ways Sheldon and Amy are far better suited than Leonard and Penny.  Both here and on TWOP a recurring criticism I've heard about them is that they have nothing in common and that must mean they couldn't possibly have a realistic relationship.  I disagree with that because I've never bought the idea that people have to agree on everything and walk in lockstep to be a couple, however for those who do feel that way Sheldon and Amy are a classic example of a couple who share many common interests, have comparable educations and intelligence levels and have similar attitudes towards life.  Aside from Amy wanting to move the relationship further than Sheldon has been comfortable with I'd think they'd be the dream couple. 

 

Maybe we're seeing the Three Bears at work:  Leonard and Penny are too different; Sheldon and Amy are too much the same; Bernie and Howard are just right?

[possibilities]

One example of where Sheldon showed contempt for Amy and a lack of interest in her life is when he brought a photo of himself to date night, and held it in front of her face as a substitute for listening while she talked.

 

I can't imagine anyone putting up with that or interpreting it as anything other than a lack of interest in them as a person, but obviously mileages vary.

[Mislav]

One example of where Sheldon showed contempt for Amy and a lack of interest in her life is when he brought a photo of himself to date night, and held it in front of her face as a substitute for listening while she talked.

I can't imagine anyone putting up with that or interpreting it as anything other than a lack of interest in them as a person, but obviously mileages vary.

Photo as a substitute for listening? LOL.

He was listening to her, but only held a photograph so she would stop trying to put him in a better mood, for which he wasn't ready. Also, she wasn't talking about her life/issues during that time. And they did have fun in the fort blanket, so...

Edited December 1, 2015 by Mislav

[David T. Cole]

Hi. Disagreements are expected and opinions of all stripes are welcome but if you are about to communicate them uncivilly, take a moment and redo your post before you commit it. 

 

TL;DR: Chill pill. Take it.

[CherryAmes]

Maybe we're seeing the Three Bears at work:  Leonard and Penny are too different; Sheldon and Amy are too much the same; Bernie and Howard are just right?

 

Oh dear and that leaves poor Raj right out of things as usual!   Actually I can see strengths and weaknesses in all 3 of the power couples on this show (I am so not including Raj and Emily here) and that's a bit like real life so I won't complain about that.  What I do dslike though is the way all the guys tend to be portrayed as childish in their own ways and the women overbearing.  Penny probably less so than Amy and Bernie but it's early days yet in that marriage and they're already showing signs of "hey I make more money so..." which is what happened with Howard and Bernie.

[CleoCaesar]

In many ways Sheldon and Amy are far better suited than Leonard and Penny.  Both here and on TWOP a recurring criticism I've heard about them is that they have nothing in common and that must mean they couldn't possibly have a realistic relationship.

 

I'm pretty sure that particular criticism was aimed at Penny/Leonard, not Amy/Sheldon. P/L really don't have anything in common, other than liking having sex with each other. A/S really do have things in common: science, academia, the same scientific, nerdy outlook on the world, inexperience in romantic matters.

 

If Sheldon weren't such a massive dick to Amy (and wasn't asexual), they really would be a good match. But those are two big "if"s.

[Homily]

Sorry I realize my wording was clumsy.  I meant that the criticism was directed at the Leonard and Penny relationship that's why I went on to say that Amy and Sheldon were an example of a couple who do have a lot in common.

[Mislav]

I'm pretty sure that particular criticism was aimed at Penny/Leonard, not Amy/Sheldon. P/L really don't have anything in common, other than liking having sex with each other. A/S really do have things in common: science, academia, the same scientific, nerdy outlook on the world, inexperience in romantic matters.

If Sheldon weren't such a massive dick to Amy (and wasn't asexual), they really would be a good match. But those are two big "if"s.

I think that the crux of the issue is this: not everyone think that Sheldon is being a massive dick to Amy, and throwing such accusations without providing any examples to support that statement isn't helping the case.

Also, I think it is pretty obvious by now that Sheldon is demisexual, not asexual. And there is more to relationship than sex (or a lack thereof).

[CherryAmes]

I think that the crux of the issue is this: not everyone think that Sheldon is being a massive dick to Amy, and throwing such accusations without providing any examples to support that statement isn't helping the case.

 

Agreed.  I see someone who has never been in a relationship before, never wanted to be in a relationship, struggling with letting himself love another person.  Sure sometimes he's a jerk - this is a comedy, most of the time when he behaves this way it's because the audience is supposed to laugh - but in most situations where Sheldon has been jerkish, for example when he tries to spoil something Amy loves - he doesn't succeed and he learns something and moves forward a little bit more each time.

[LADreamr]

I have many times listed specific examples of Sheldon being a dick to Amy (and they had nothing to do with sex). It doesn't make a difference. People are set on their beliefs about Sheldon's entitlement.

[rubinia]

 

P/L really don't have anything in common, other than liking having sex with each other.

Do they even like having sex with each other? Penny seems to be constantly putting Leonard down in that department.

[CherryAmes]

People are set on their beliefs about Sheldon's entitlement.

 

Or, alternatively, people can watch the same show and feel differently about what they are seeing.  BBT in particular I find seems to be a show that can have two people watch an episode and come away with very different impressions of what went on.   I've read comments here before seeing a show, for example, and have been very surprised to find that the show I am watching doesn't seem to be the same show people were talking about!  Not sure what to say about that.

Edited December 3, 2015 by CherryAmes

[LADreamr]

I was referring to the comment that no one is ever specific in their criticisms of him.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Do they even like having sex with each other? Penny seems to be constantly putting Leonard down in that department.

The impression I've gotten is that Leonard can give Penny a good time if he tries, but it distracts from his own enjoyment, so he probably doesn't do it often.

[sinkwriter]

 

Do they even like having sex with each other? Penny seems to be constantly putting Leonard down in that department.

 

I think part of the problem is that the writing for this tends to be inconsistent. Sometimes they have Penny putting Leonard down or talking like their sex is just "eh"; other times they have her commenting on how hard he works at putting her first (to the point of trying too hard - like thanking her after every time they have sex, LOL) and making pleased comments about how good he is. I just wish they'd be more consistent instead of playing either side depending on the joke they want to tell. Which is it? Is he bad in bed or good in bed? 

[CherryAmes]

Meh, it's a sitcom, they're going to say whatever they think is funniest depending on the episode.  Like sometimes Penny is so dumb she can't even use glue but other times she can put together furniture, learn all her lines for a play like "Streetcar Named Desire" or study and pass tests in order to be a pharmaceutical rep. It's nice when there's some consistency but of all the characters I think it's Penny that really suffers from "let's go for the funny and to hell with what we've done in the past".

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I just wish they'd be more consistent instead of playing either side depending on the joke they want to tell. Which is it? Is he bad in bed or good in bed?

I think the writers are pretty consistent; Leonard doesn't know what he's doing, so even when he tries he's not that good. The big exception was when Penny called him a genius, but that was because he needed to ask her a big favor, so he got some moves off the net (which he had trouble remembering). It sounded like he did pretty good reading from the Kama Sutra when with Priya, so maybe he should get something to crib from at bedtime; I'm sure Penny wouldn't mind.

[takalotti]

So Penny has never been friends with any of her exes? Then what was mid-season 3 through mis-season 5?

[CherryAmes]

Leonard doesn't know what he's doing, so even when he tries he's not that good.

 

Yet according to both Priya and Penny he's the king of foreplay so he must be doing at least a few things right!

[Cranston]

What does demisexual mean?

[takalotti]

What does demisexual mean?

Demisexual

;p

Edited December 4, 2015 by takalotti

[wendyg]

Maybe offer this slightly more helpful URL instead? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=demisexual

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Yet according to both Priya and Penny he's the king of foreplay so he must be doing at least a few things right!

Leonard called himself the king of foreplay. Penny said she fell asleep, and she and Priya agreed that it "goes on forever" in a way that suggested that although they appreciate that he's trying, he isn't as successful as he thinks he is.

[CherryAmes]

I just saw that episode the other day.  They were definitely bonding over Leonard's "performance" but I didn't get the impression he wasn't succeeding.  It did seem odd though that Leonard, who is usually lacking, to say the least, in the self confidence department, would have been so confident about this when he was talking to Raj.  I just chalk it up to yet another "hey guys forget the back story we've given this character, I know what would be funny" moment in the writers room.

[okerry]

Meh, it's a sitcom, they're going to say whatever they think is funniest depending on the episode.  Like sometimes Penny is so dumb she can't even use glue but other times she can put together furniture, learn all her lines for a play like "Streetcar Named Desire" or study and pass tests in order to be a pharmaceutical rep. It's nice when there's some consistency but of all the characters I think it's Penny that really suffers from "let's go for the funny and to hell with what we've done in the past".

I get what you're saying - it is a comedy, after all - but I'd like to think that the message really is, "Penny isn't as dumb as she thinks she is, or as the other characters thing she is."