S05.E08: Birth

[FierceAfroChick]

All i can say his he better be dressed in some incredibly hot and sexy leather Dark One gear, or this new twist is really going to suck for me.

Sorry, he's wearing wool.

I don't think Dark Hook is gonna last too long.

[CatMack]

Oh, another thing that was really great?  Mark Isham's score during Killians death/Dark One-ing.  Really, really great.

 

Honestly, taken just by itself, I think that scene is one of the best the show has ever done.  The acting, the music, the cinematography, it was beautiful.

 

If only the mythology surrounding it wasn't such an utter trainwreck, and if only I was more trusting about how the writers are going to handle it in present day SB.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Honestly, taken just by itself, I think that scene is one of the best the show has ever done.  The acting, the music, the cinematography, it was beautiful.

 

 If only the mythology surrounding it wasn't such an utter trainwreck, and if only I was more trusting about how the writers are going to handle it in present day SB.

It reminded me a lot of the heart splitting scene in 3B, only in a good way. Jennifer/Colin were just as amazing as Ginny/Josh with the hardcore acting skills. Both scenes have unfortunate problems with mythology.

 

A&E utterly missed the point of Brave. No, it wasn't about Merida seeking vengeance. No, it was not about her relationship with her father. It was about her relationship with her mother. I'm disappointed Elanor got a crappy bit part that was nothing like her movie counterpart. The writers completely overlooked the strong points of the movie.

Edited November 16, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

I just don't get why turning Killian into a DO made Emma succumb to the Darkness and ensured an immediate costume change with red lipstick. 

[Gizmo321]

After watching both episodes....am I the only one who...when thinking of King Arthur now ...has the image of Elmer Fudd going around singing "Spear and Magic Helmet" to anyone that will listen???  LOL

[MaiLuna]

I don't know if Emma casted the curse or if it was someone else. But if it was Emma, wouldn't it have been better to create a new town that was magicless (like the first curse), then the darkness wouldn't exist in neither her or Killian...?

 

I'm here for all the Captain Swan angst. I love angst. If it wasn't for this drama, we wouldn't have gotten so much love out of them. I still don't get how Killian didn't feel he was the DO but whatever. I know they'll try and fail to explain it in a tweet.

 

They should've stretched the stories better because after that cliffhanger that episode really killed the momentum. But, better in the same week than in two I guess. Merida was a bit more likeable and I love Red. I liked her and MM's scene. Mulas was a bit off this episode but I like her chesmistry with Ruby. I like that the episode was quite fairy tale-y. I enjoy FTL so much more than SB.

 

I'm really liking Zelena. And I didn't mind Regina forcing Emma. It was harsh but frankly, necessary. But of course Hook made it easier.

And I just want to sleep for two weeks so I can wake up to the next episode (I'm exaggerating but not much). I wonder if Hook will really want revenge on Emma, or they'll try to fight the darkness together, or one of them will sacrifice themselves for the other one, or if they'll be dark together (for a little while because I don't see this lasting). I know Killian is mad that Emma made him the thing he hates most, but I think seeing Emma that heartbroken over his death on the dreamcatcher would make him understand a bit more why she did it  and that losing him would've broken her. Maybe she wouldn't have been able to snuff out the dark if she had lost him. Killian (already being the DO) has just told her how much he loves her and will forgive her so I have faith he will eventually.

 

 

I just don't get why turning Killian into a DO made Emma succumb to the Darkness and ensured an immediate costume change with red lipstick.

Because saving lives makes you darker in this show.

Edited November 16, 2015 by MaiLuna

[kitticup]

OMG!!!! I just watched the Birth. I loved it. I was on the edge of my seat. I knew Hook was going to be tethered to the sword, but wow I was not expecting Dark Hook!

However Hook should realize that he hasn't surcombed to the Darkness. The darkness should have been working to take control.

[mjgchick]

Poor Princess Leia and Prince Charles didn't see this coming for the both of them. :(

[Souris]

If Killian is pretending to be full-on dark as part of a greater plan to defeat the darkness once and for all and he has to fool everyone to do it, I am so looking forward to the rest of this arc.

If Killian gave into the darkness for real and genuinely wants to hurt Emma, I am so dreading the rest of this arc.

I'm so conflicted.

 

Ditto. It could go either way. And since I don't trust this show, I fear the latter.

[PixiePaws1]

WTF!!!!!!

First off because where it is due....CONGRATS AND WELL DONE to all those who guessed Killian going dark...Although can't remember if anyone guessed he was DO before he came to SB. I am guessng he was the DO after Merlin in the 'voice mail' ....

I am absolutely one hundred percent horrified by this..... and I have no doubt at all that Killian is in no way playing a long con on Zelena. in that moment he seems to truly hate Emma...and I hate the writers for sending them down this road.

I wonder now if Emma has ripped out Killian's heart to crush because he was out of control in Camelot. Again...horrified! !! Or maybe he ripped out his own heart cos he couldn't stand being the DO...

I also think he will get past it...

OMG...I am sobbing so hard I can barely see my screen!

Edited November 16, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[Amelie06]

"Birth" was awesome. I was so into it! I couldn't believe how much I was enjoying that episode. And then they followed it up with utter crap. This is the problem with having 22 episode seasons. You get ridiculous filler for at least 10 of those episodes. How frustrating.

 

I loved the twist with Dark Hook. I didn't see that coming at all. I called that something death-ish must have happened to Hook in Camelot, but had no clue he was another Dark One. I thought it was going to be something like he was technically dead but kept alive by magic and the fact that no one, including himself, knew he was dead. I was afraid he was going to drop dead as soon as the illusion of life was uncovered. So...this is actually a lot better than what I had been guessing.

 

I didn't like how quickly he seemed to turn on Emma at the end. I found that hard to believe. But I'm willing to allow that maybe something about getting back his memories awakened the darkness within. That death scene was pretty tough. I don't know what it would be like to see yourself dying in your lover's arms, begging her to just leave you be and not violate the integrity of your soul. In a way she didn't really save Killian. By making him into the Dark One, she fundamentally changed who he was. All the while, he was begging her not to and telling her that the Hook she loved wouldn't survive. That's surprisingly dark for this show, it usually likes to hide from all the crazy stuff that is actually happening. Maybe seeing all that is what made Hook turn on Emma. I'm still side-eyeing how he was fine and totally not magicking the entire time they've been back in Storybrooke, but I like this story so much I'm going to just go with it.

 

I like where this takes Hook and Emma's story. I've found Hook to be dull for the last couple of seasons. Once he fell in love and gave up his quest for revenge, he hasn't been much more than the dutiful boyfriend and occasional babysitter. That's a waste of a talented actor and interesting character. This puts him in an entirely new direction. I'm not too worried about it. If Regina can be redeemed from her multiple acts of mass murder and rape, then nothing Dark Killian can do will be so bad.

 

I loved Dr. Whale. (That's the name of David Anders's character, right?) He was still so bitter about the last time he ran into Zelena. His snark is always welcomed. Zelena really does have powerful magic to go from the maternity ward to running around Emma's house. Girl, sit your ass down! I know you have to be in pain. For all her whining about the baby she raped Robin to get, she decides to chat about her new outfit and then look at dreamcatchers rather than going to her baby.

 

Merida is irritating. I honestly fast forwarded through most of her dull ass episode. I'm actually starting to feel bad for Arthur. He is just not qualified for his job on any possible level. He should have been a blacksmith. He seems to constantly have his shortcomings exposed to various people who just sneer at his complete incompetence. It's not fun anymore. The man needs career counseling. Of course he killed Merida's father.

[Randomosity]

I'll catch up on the thread in a minute, but first:

 

Words cannot describe how much of a rat's ass I did NOT give about Merida after that first hour.

[kili]

So, let me see if I have this straight....being the Dark One is like being the Wile E. Coyote running off a cliff. The Coyote never falls until he realizes he's going to fall. The Dark One is near saint-like in his desire to turn his girlfriend light and to not let her kill the Wicked Witch until he realizes he is the Dark One and then he is the worst one ever who even turns on his loved ones.

Edited November 16, 2015 by kili

[twoods]

Gah, this show. I was a wreck the first hour so I guess I had time to relax during the second half. I did like seeing Red and Mulan.

Hook looked like he hated Emma with all his heart during their last scene- I couldn't take that! Poor Emma looked devastated. I hope he's playing Zelena but I'm sure all the memory loss stuff was because Dark Hook had lost his shit in Camelot and was going crazy on everyone. The only way to save him from himself was to strip him of his memories so Emma has time to take the darkness out of both of them. Kudos, writers- what a terrific twist.

I'm worried about Merlin. He's been one of my favorite characters this season.

[HoodlumSheep]

Because saving lives makes you darker in this show.

I think they view it as: saving a life (like healing death-blow wounds)=cheating death=dark magic.

Basically, while saving a life seems good, it's considered dark magic because it basically messes with the universe's mojo. Like how resurrecting Rumple was Dark magic. Bringing back the dead is one of the 3 big no-no's this show has concerning magic.

[KAOS Agent]

I do not know what fuckery I just watched, but at least it was entertaining for the first hour at least.

 

A few thoughts

 

- Rumpel imitating Merlin's accent amused the hell out of me. I rewound just to watch it again.

 

- Zelena can be entertaining in short bursts, but I found her to be overused and annoying by the end. And then she came back for the second hour. Blah.

 

- I am confused about how you can just make some really quick spell and suddenly you have an instant Dark One against their will. This does not compute.

 

- Hook being the Dark One without knowing it was also really iffy for me. So if we just strip Emma & Hook of their memories for the last eight weeks or so, they'll be fine? 

 

- What the hell is wrong with Snowing? Emma might not be there anymore? Have you even talked to her? I just can't anymore with them.

 

- Merida was there.

[bmoore4026]

Chicken Wing, on 15 Nov 2015 - 9:12 PM, said:

(Was anyone actually missing Ruby or Mulan?)

 

Me.

[Randomosity]

So much happened in 'Birth' that I'm still sorting through in my head, I think. Lots to process, but bottom line, it was a great, great episode.

 

I'm wary of the Dark Duo storyline, but given that the CS relationship has really now been shown to be SUCH a Big Deal, a happy ending has to be endgame for them, right? (...right? *lower lip quiver*)

 

And I totally said "Prepare to die" out loud after Merida's "You killed my father" line. Anyone else? Just me?

[mjgchick]

Emma remembered poor Marian died.

I too missed the hell out of Mulan and Ruby. Its probably why I used that last hour to process the first one. lol

Edited November 16, 2015 by mjgchick

[Leia1979]

I enjoyed the first hour but really didn't care about the second. I thought this was going to be an actual two-hour episode, not a scheduling thing.

 

I guess we've learned you're not really dark until someone tells you you're dark, because I saw no sign of Hook not acting like his normal self earlier this season. I'm still not sure I entirely understand what happened with Hook and binding him to Excalibre and whatnot, but my husband deleted the episode not ten seconds after I said "please don't delete it so I can go back and figure out what the heck happened." Grrrr.

[Blue Plastic]

(Was anyone actually missing Ruby or Mulan?)

Not me.  I don't care about either one of them at all.  They have been gone a long time and I don't feel like I've seen enough of either one of them to care much anyway.  Plus with all the stuff happening with Emma, I just really don't care about what's going on with some absentee side characters.

 

Same for Merida.  The Frozen characters were used as part of the main plot.  Merida is being used as a side junket that takes time away from what I really want to see, so I'm just annoyed every time she's on my screen.  That second episode tonight was so out of place no matter where or when they aired it.

 

I'm disappointed at how Hook's deadly injury came about.  And the bit with putting Hook's name on Excalibur happened way too fast to follow.  And I don't buy him being so mad at Emma.

Me neither.  Plus I don't understand what's going on.  Has Hook known he was a Dark One all this time, ever since they got back from Camelot?  Has he been doing secretly evil things behind others' backs?  I don't get that part!  Why did he need the scenery chewer (Zelena) to show him what happened in the dream catcher?  I wonder if Gold could tell.

 

The second episode I was afraid was going to be nothing but terrible wigs and Merida's way-too-young mother.

Merida's mother looked more like the Disney Pocahontas character.

 

Arthur is getting to be such a tool.  I liked his crazy villainy earlier in the season, but it's being overused.  He has his hands in way too many pots.

He's the new Rumple.  Since Rumple can now giggle and frolic only in Emma's head (hey, shouldn't he be in Hook's head too?), they needed a new villain to overuse in place of what would normally be separate characters.

 

I was really disgusted at David and especially Snow's behavior tonight.  I was practically rooting for Snow to get choked by that magical vine.  Hook was the only one going to bat for Emma and insisting that the person they knew and loved was still in there, and all the while her parents expressed basically no faith or interest in her unless the evil could be removed from her.  I was so disgusted at them and proud of Hook and now I don't even know if he was sincere.  I'm so betrayed!

[PixiePaws1]

if Emma has crushed Killian's heart (and sadly I can see him diving into the deep end of the DO pool and Snowing and Regina forcing her to do it....'your mess Emma, you fix it')...but if he is still alive because he is the DO and immortal. .then how did Emma plan to have that future with him once they were both de-Darked cos wouldn't he die? ? *sob*

[mjgchick]

Hook has been the Dark One for 3 weeks. Zelena said theirs more Hook needed to know. WTF else did Emma do?

[InsertWordHere]

I too was happy to see Mulan and Ruby. I just wish they would have interacted with characters they have history with, like Emma, David, and Snow or even Hook. But hey, at least it wasn't flashback Rumple manipulates character #587, this time with kilts. The Snow and Ruby diner scene was nice (even though I can't believe Red just took the bean and left and Granny never mentioned it), but it wasn't enough. Also, it was a bad choice to not return to Storybrooke in the second hour after how they ended the first. 

 

- Rumpel imitating Merlin's accent amused the hell out of me. I rewound just to watch it again.

That was wonderful. Not just the accent but the tone too.

[mjgchick]

Did Marida's mom have her at the age of 5 or something?

[Souris]

And I totally said "Prepare to die" out loud after Merida's "You killed my father" line. Anyone else? Just me?

 

I was barely paying attention to the second ep, but my mind totally snapped to attention at that line and added the "prepare to die" LOL.

[Camera One]

I'm thinking ABC realized if they aired "The Bear King" in two weeks, the "Once Upon a Time" Fan Clan will be marching on their studio gates with pitchforks.  Might as well tack it to the the end of the first hour as a throwaway.  Why writers feel it is a good idea to follow cliffhangers with the most blatant filler episodes I will never understand.

 

I didn't think "Birth" was that great, though it had its moments.  It was the big "reveal" episode which told us Dark Emma's motivation, but it was very meh to me.  I feel like I've already seen someone desperate resurrect their love with Regina in Episode 2, so in a way, it felt like retread.  Hook becoming the Dark One by being tethered to the sword made no sense.  I was going WTF instead of getting the feels.  

 

There were a few scenes I liked.  I liked seeing Granny being so proactive with that crossbow in the diner at the beginning.  I was hoping for some extended Granny time but of course she was then frozen and got no more lines.  Dr. Whale was hilarious regarding Dark Emma's dye-job.  Did Emma tell Henry about the voices in her head?  I don't remember that, but I did like that scene they had.

 

I don't get that whole scene with Regina and Emma about the darkness "feeling good, indulging every impulse, wielding great power"... couldn't Emma already do half that stuff using Light Magic?  Isn't Regina still able to do pretty much whatever she wants?  Why would Emma need Dark Magic to tie Zelena to a tree... magic so weak that ARTHUR could break the bonds.  What the hell?  

 

Why did the writers have Snow randomly say that there may not be any Emma anymore, while Regina agrees, and then in the next line, Regina goes "we'll get our Emma back".  Is it the former or the latter?  Are they saying Real Emma took a vacation away from Dark Emma, and when Dark Emma is destroyed, Emma will take a flight back?  

 

I guess I'm worse than Nimue but I thought Dark Emma's plan to tether the Darkness to Zelena and then kill her, was not that bad a plan.  If they could get rid of Darkness FOREVER?  Bring it on.  Though according to the "mythology" of this show, Emma committing this act would make her even darker, so how could it destroy the darkness?  Not that any of this makes sense, so I probably shouldn't bother trying to figure it out.

 

I guess the writers have decided that Hook does have a body count.  Killing someone who took a drink of his wine, eh?

 

What spell was Belle going on about that required "the cries of a newborn child"?  So the spell to cut away all lightness is just there in a book?  LOL!

 

Why would Arthur let Dark Merlin talk to Emma?

 

I miss the strong Emma who let Neal die and accepted it.  To me, that is what she would have done for Hook, despite the hurt and the pain.

 

The thought of two wanna-be Darth Vaders walking around Storybrooke makes me want to laugh more than provide me with suspense and intrigue.

 

Let me go drink a bottle of hard liquor before I attempt to describe what I thought of "The Bear King".

Edited November 16, 2015 by Camera One

[HoodlumSheep]

Hook has been the Dark One for 3 weeks. Zelena said theirs more Hook needed to know. WTF else did Emma do?

Wait, does this mean Zelena has her memories back too? Or did she just preview Hook's memories (or Emma's?) before she helped Killy get his back?

[mjgchick]

I think if Emma knew how to ressurect people back then she'd done it for Neal. If not for herself than for Henry. I don't think she'd done it for Christian Gray though. I mean she did just met the dude.

[KAOS Agent]

 

I guess the writers have decided that Hook does have a body count.  Killing someone who took a drink of his wine, eh?

 

 I really appreciated the tiny bit of Captain Hook backstory there because they've made him such a puppy in the backstory episodes, there wasn't a whole lot of evil going on. Cake runs for Pan? Drunk!Hook being all besotted with Emma? Bring on the drowning of a sailor for drinking the captain's wine. 

[HoodlumSheep]

^ I actually liked how they added that bit in. He was a pirate after all, and seemed to be in a really dark place at one point, so it makes sense that he's had to have offed some other pirates, etc. at some point.

I'm trying to reserve judgement on the Darth Killy stuff until the rest of the eps have aired. I can chalk up the 180 of his personality to possibly being due to whatever goes down in those 3 weeks of Camelot we have left. We could potentially see him go dark in Camelot, so when the memories flood back in, he's flooded with all he anger and vengeance, etc. he may have given into in Camelot.

I'm not too bothered by him not being haunted by clippy!Rumple, etc. because he's kind of been haunted by Emma in a certain sense. And you can tell he's slept very little.

Biggest issue for me is that you can apparently easily mind-wipe a Dark One so they don't remember they're a Dark One, and therefore the effects don't seem to kick in? Although I think he's sort of covered the Clippy!DO, and sleep deprivation in a different fanwanky way. He hasn't really been in a situation in Storybrooke where he would have accidentally tapped into his magic either (except maybe his confrontation with Arthur in the woods?).

Basically, I'm happy with fanwanking stuff in this occasion. I'll probably ask the writers some questions on twitter anyways, though, but they probably won't respond.

Edited November 16, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[InsertWordHere]

Stupid question, but does Killian have all his memories back or did he just view the events up to his birth as the Dark One? On a similar note, did this happen three weeks ago in Camelot or three weeks before the curse? Because it's probably been about one to two weeks since they returned to Storybrooke, so I don't really think we have a whole three weeks of Camelot to go through before they finish this arc. I think things are going to happen pretty quickly there now that Dark Hook is running around. 

 I really appreciated the tiny bit of Captain Hook backstory there because they've made him such a puppy in the backstory episodes, there wasn't a whole lot of evil going on. Cake runs for Pan? Drunk!Hook being all besotted with Emma? Bring on the drowning of a sailor for drinking the captain's wine. 

He's had those rings since the pub scene in The Crocodile too, so he was doing these things fairly early in his pirate career. Edit: Which doesn't make sense because upon rewatch, he says that he killed a guy for calling him one-hand Jones. Unless unfortunate dead Barnaby was oddly prescient or Hook had another hand problem at some point. 

Edited November 16, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[PixiePaws1]

Granny's key ring has a swan on it :o)))

[Souris]

Granny's key ring has a swan on it :o)))

Granny Swan is endgame!!!!

Edited November 16, 2015 by Souris

[InsertWordHere]

Granny Swan is endgame!!!!

Whatever you do, don't type that on tumblr. You'll be followed by some interesting blogs.

[KAOS Agent]

I'm also vastly amused that this show SORAS'd a baby in utero. Did they even name it? Are we going to be treated to another naming ceremony at Granny's where the child is given an inappropriate name? Marian Cora or something equally gross.

[InsertWordHere]

So all the moments Hook's had in Storybrooke so far this season which I thought were oh so awesome were only written that we so we could look back and say, "Oh, he was the Dark One all along and he didn't know it. Look at him shaking his head at Belle's defense of Rumple, telling Emma this may be who she is but it's not who he is, saying he wasn't the only one who'd changed for the better after giving Rumple that sword on his ship, and assuming Merlin was getting attacked by Emma when it was really Hook. Har har har we should have known."

 

Which could turn out to be great if this is all leading to a final rejection of the darkness. If it's not, then it will just feel cheap, IMO. 

Edited November 16, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[PixiePaws1]

Good grief...I usually avoid all the really rabid SQ crap (cos there are polite ones they just tend to get howled down) .but they are going to have a field day with the way Killian looks to have turned on Emma in that last scene..hide people....next ep better sort this out or there is going to be virtual blood everywhere...

Can't accurately put into words how sick I feel for Killian and Emma. He works his arse off to be worthy of her and to turn his life around...she comes through hell to find love and home..and this their reward....while Rumple gets his heart wiped over and hero status with next to no effort and Regina gets her squeeze at the cost of Emma's and Killian's (indirectly) souls. I repeat ...I feel sick..and oh so so sad.

[PixiePaws1]

The conversation in the writer's room when planning this arc probably went something like this:

Eddy: You know what would be really cool? If we made Hook the Dark One! Talk about irony!

Adam: Yeah, but we wanna see Emma be full on Dark Swan in all her platinum-haired, black-crocodile-leather glory.

Eddy: Wait a second...

the fact that this clip is from an ad about tacos .....just adds an extra dimension of 'whoa' !

[PixiePaws1]

so....did Emma (writers ) think this cunning plan of transplanting the darkness to Zelena and then killing her, all the way through? Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't an Emma without the Darkness be almost normal Emma who might not think killing in cold blood is a reasonable idea and wouldn't go through with it????

[HoodlumSheep]

^ maybe in her Dark Oneness she hasn't thought of that detail? She does consider herself to be the Dark One, so maybe she thinks her current mindset will stick, or she'll be able to make a tough choice for the greater good.

I'm beginning to question why Merlin never informed Emma about excalibur creating wounds that can't heal. Unless he totally missed Hook getting cut and Emma healing him. Never mind, he was probably thinking of the greater good. *shrugs*

[kili]

If Hook gave into the Darkness, why isn't he all sparkly? Emma became sparkly in Camelot and got her new outfit (I like how the Dark One magically accessorizes itself) and continues to look the same in Storybooke. Where is Hook's sparkle? How much wank are they going to have to use for this twist. He's not sparkly, he doesn't notice he's dark (when Emma couldn't get away from the urges) and he doesn't have magic flowing out of his fingertips during stressful times (which even Emma had when she didn't believe in magic). But, yet, he is the darkest dark on that ever darked?

 

Rumple still terrorized the town before he got his memory back and while there was no magic in town.

 

I'm trying to think back on any magic that Hook may have done and the closest thing is when he found the squid ink. It could have just been luck or intuition, but I think we were meant to think that it was magic. They had Hook allude to it earlier when Hook said about Rumple's safe "The Dark One Always Knows". Of course, in the case of Rumple's vault, the Dark One knows where it is and the combination because they retain all the Dark One's memories and Sparkle Imp would have just given her the combo. 

 

Convenient that Emma took everything from the vault except the magic non-transformation powder needed to take out the bear.

 

And convient that Rumple knew all about excalibur and never tried to forge it himself and no Sparkly Imps encouraged him to do so.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On a really shallow note, that closeup of Emma walking through the dirt in her white gown and white cape just made me sad to think about how dirty all that white fabric would get from dragging through the dirt. I know that should be the least of my concerns while watching show show, but I couldn't help but cringe!

 

Remember in S1 when this show was fun and entertaining and incorporated fairy tales into the plot in cool ways? This episode reminded me how far we have come from that. When the first episode ended with Zelena showing Hook the dreamcatcher of him dying and then Emma turning him into her co-Dark One, the first thing I thought was, "This is SO DUMB." And this is coming from someone who watched all four of the Flowers in the Attic movies on Lifetime.

 

After putting up with this boring "I must find the other piece of Excalibur" storyline with Arthur and then Emma's "I must reunite the sword and the dagger together" storyline, it culminates in Hook being turned into the dark one? Come on.

 

One of the few good things about the first episode was Regina commenting on Dr. Whale's zombified hair color. Also loved that he told Zelena that she threw him against the room the last time he saw her and he hoped it wouldn't happen again, only to have Emma throw him against the wall.

 

Since when does Regina care about Zelena or keeping her alive? It seemed like a pretty abrupt about face when she said she was going to go all dark magic on Emma's ass to protect Zelena.

 

Did I miss the part where they explained how Emma using the flame to unite Excalibur made Hook's wound re-open and kill him? Merlin's explanation was that wounds from Excalibur could not be healed, but that doesn't explain why Emma was able to temporarily heal his wound but that it only lasted until she started putting the swords back together.

 

What was with Emma telling Merlin to resist the darkness? The whole point of the damn dagger is that the dark one has to obey whoever holds it and commands them but apparently now it's just a matter of having enough will power to resist obeying, WTF?

 

Emma turning Hook into the dark one to save his life was like Liv turning Major into a zombie so he wouldn't die on iZombie (which you can thank for Dr. Whale's new hair color) or Bonnie turning her mother into a vampire so she wouldn't die on The Vampire Diaries. Yup, that worked out great on the other two shows too! What Emma did was actually worse. On iZombie and the Vampire Diaries, Major and Bonnie's mom were dying and unconscious so they were unable to give an opinion on the matter (even though Liv and Bonnie both knew that the other person hated zombies/vampires). But Hook was conscious and he specifically told her NOT to turn him into the dark one because he wouldn't be able to resist the darkness. Instead, she ignored his wishes and did it anyway.

 

Then at the beginning of the second episode, I was like oh gawd, more Merida? And i feel bad for saying that because I actually liked Brave but I hate the way they have portrayed Merida on the show to the point where I have on interest in seeing her on the show anymore. And then her father was stupid enough to (1) sign a binding contract with Scottish Ursula and (2) agree to a Godfather-esque commitment to do an as yet unnamed future favor.

 

On the plus side, Merida's flashback wig (when her father was still alive) looked way better than her current timeline wig. Too bad that didn't make up for her weird combination of giving up and looking down on Mulan.

 

I can't believe they made me watch the lame Prince Neal introduction announcement at granny's again. Too bad Ruby didn't use her magic bean to go to New Orleans so she could hang out with Hayley and the woofs on The Originals.

 

How did Mulan know that tipping over the witch's cauldron would turn Ruby back into her human form? What if that had just turned her into something worse or killed her?

 

Ha, I did have to laugh that one of the clans was named MacGuffin. I hated the big battle scene. Way too much handheld/shaky camerawork. But I loved the clansman with the giant blond Heat Miser hair.

 

Somehow Zelena has become the voice of reason. When Merida and Mulan were having their rah rah, Daddy Fergus really led his men into battle without using dark magic discussion (while Merida and Arthur had their swords drawn no less), I was with Zelena when she told them to STFU. I was totally rolling my eyes when Arthur kept yakking during his fight with Merida.

 

 

 

No, Mulan, you didn't lose the person you love because you waited until it was too late to say anything. You never had a chance because she was already engaged to someone who was her verified True Love via a curse-breaking kiss before you met her. You were friends with her True Love, who was on a desperate quest to find and save her, before you met her, so saying anything would have been a jerk move.

In addition, was there ever any hint that Aurora is attracted to women? I don't remember that being explicitly stated (although I admit it's been so long that I may have just forgotten). If Aurora is not attracted to women then she was never Mulan's to lose, regardless of whether Mulan decided to say something or not about her feelings to Aurora. If Aurora isn't attracted to women, then Mulan confessing her feelings was not going to magically make her bisexual or a lesbian.

Edited November 16, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Curio]

I just don't get why turning Killian into a DO made Emma succumb to the Darkness and ensured an immediate costume change with red lipstick. 

Emma forced Killian to become the darkest villain of them all—The Dark One—against his free will. In exchange, Emma immediately became The Dark One as well. If you force someone to become a villain, you become a villain yourself. Quid pro quo.

 

I don't know what it would be like to see yourself dying in your lover's arms, begging her to just leave you be and not violate the integrity of your soul. In a way she didn't really save Killian. By making him into the Dark One, she fundamentally changed who he was. All the while, he was begging her not to and telling her that the Hook she loved wouldn't survive.

"In a way she didn't really save Killian" is exactly how Hook feels at the moment, and he even said something along the lines of, "You call this saving?" I've been thinking a lot about Hook's 180° turn on Emma and it seemed jarring and out of character at first, but I'm glad I slept on it because I think I have a new perspective about it that helps me understand his reaction better. I'll elaborate in a separate post because it's definitely turning into a novella. 

 

Emma remembered poor Marian died.

Yes, but does she remember who killed Marian the first time around? Conveniently for Season 4 and Operation Mongoose, that's a big fat no.

 

I miss the strong Emma who let Neal die and accepted it. To me, that is what she would have done for Hook, despite the hurt and the pain.

I think that was the whole point of the scene—by forcing the darkness into Hook and saving him from death, Emma wasn't strong. Jennifer has mentioned numerous times in interviews how Hook and Henry are her biggest weaknesses because of how much she loves them, so it's only fitting that Emma allowed herself to be at her weakest point when Hook was dying. Emma wasn't strong; she was being selfish and couldn't let Hook die a hero like she did with Neal because she couldn't imagine a future without Hook. The whole episode talked about Emma and Hook's futures together, and once Emma finally accepted she was ready for that white picket fence life with him, he goes and dies. She can't accept that, so she becomes weak and forces Hook into a villain (basically the exact opposite of what she did to Rumple and Regina, ironically), even though he desperately didn't want to go down that path again.

 

The writers went out of their way to make a parallel between Emma saying "I love you" under duress to both Hook and Neal, and now we have another parallel of both men dying in front of her, begging her to let them go and die as heroes. But with Neal, Emma couldn't see a future with him and was ready to move on without him, so she was able to let him pass away. But with Hook, even with all his pleading, she still couldn't let him die because she needed him to be in her future. Even if Emma possessed the power to resurrect Neal in Season 3, I still think she would have let him pass away because it was pretty clear at that point she had moved on and didn't see a future with him.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Curio

[KateJones]

I'm having visions of 5A ending a la Buffy running Angel through with a sword and Acathla taking him into the hell dimension. Killian may become the only character to die twice by a mortal Excalbur wound.

[kpw801]

"Birth" was awesome. I was so into it! I couldn't believe how much I was enjoying that episode. And then they followed it up with utter crap. This is the problem with having 22 episode seasons. You get ridiculous filler for at least 10 of those episodes. How frustrating.

 

I loved the twist with Dark Hook. I didn't see that coming at all. I called that something death-ish must have happened to Hook in Camelot, but had no clue he was another Dark One. I thought it was going to be something like he was technically dead but kept alive by magic and the fact that no one, including himself, knew he was dead. I was afraid he was going to drop dead as soon as the illusion of life was uncovered. So...this is actually a lot better than what I had been guessing.

 

I didn't like how quickly he seemed to turn on Emma at the end. I found that hard to believe. But I'm willing to allow that maybe something about getting back his memories awakened the darkness within. That death scene was pretty tough. I don't know what it would be like to see yourself dying in your lover's arms, begging her to just leave you be and not violate the integrity of your soul. In a way she didn't really save Killian. By making him into the Dark One, she fundamentally changed who he was. All the while, he was begging her not to and telling her that the Hook she loved wouldn't survive. That's surprisingly dark for this show, it usually likes to hide from all the crazy stuff that is actually happening. Maybe seeing all that is what made Hook turn on Emma. I'm still side-eyeing how he was fine and totally not magicking the entire time they've been back in Storybrooke, but I like this story so much I'm going to just go with it.

 

I like where this takes Hook and Emma's story. I've found Hook to be dull for the last couple of seasons. Once he fell in love and gave up his quest for revenge, he hasn't been much more than the dutiful boyfriend and occasional babysitter. That's a waste of a talented actor and interesting character. This puts him in an entirely new direction. I'm not too worried about it. If Regina can be redeemed from her multiple acts of mass murder and rape, then nothing Dark Killian can do will be so bad.

 

I loved Dr. Whale. (That's the name of David Anders's character, right?) He was still so bitter about the last time he ran into Zelena. His snark is always welcomed. Zelena really does have powerful magic to go from the maternity ward to running around Emma's house. Girl, sit your ass down! I know you have to be in pain. For all her whining about the baby she raped Robin to get, she decides to chat about her new outfit and then look at dreamcatchers rather than going to her baby.

 

Merida is irritating. I honestly fast forwarded through most of her dull ass episode. I'm actually starting to feel bad for Arthur. He is just not qualified for his job on any possible level. He should have been a blacksmith. He seems to constantly have his shortcomings exposed to various people who just sneer at his complete incompetence. It's not fun anymore. The man needs career counseling. Of course he killed Merida's father.

totally agreed!   Birth was wonderful.  When they went into that stupid Bear King bit, I kept the TV on, but honestly, I played alphabetty on my cell phone for the majority of that episode.  I was not interested in Merida at all!

[Daisy]

Arthur goes to Scotland.

to start a war

to get a helmet

to make people fight for him...

that the King gets 

by asking a witch. 

 

 

Are we saying the witch couldn't make a new one? How did Arthur know about the helmet?  Like did Fergus boast about his "I can force people to die for me helmet? "
 
Why would turning Killian into the Dark One make Emma DARK, SHOW?!. She's been doing dark-y things for good reasons ALL THE  TIME. so saving her  boyfriend (which -still not on that train ),  who is dying because of Ecalliber (don't A: remember him being hurt, and B : why would fusing the  sword = him dying?) and transfering the dark (whu?) out of Merlin is who indisposed (whu?) into him to save his life = Insta-Dark? 

 

WHY?! HOW?! 

[StaceyNotStacie]

I didn't hate the second episode, but I thought that the first episode was better.  The second episode just felt like they were looking for extra content to throw in the episode. There was no continuity from the first episode.  With the big cliff-hanger from the first half, it would have been better had they showed the second half of the show first and ended with the "Birth" episode.  That scene with Hook in the cloak should have been the final scene of the night.  

 

I'm a bit older and never got into the Disney princess movies (never had any interest in Mulan or Brave).  I really didn't care about seeing Mulan, but I enjoyed seeing Red.  I wish we could have had some sort of scene with her with the rest of the Storybrooke crew since they were back in her realm, but it was nice seeing her and getting an explanation of why we haven't seen her in Storybrooke.  

 

I have to add that everyone looked lovely in their capes last night.  Emma and with her white cape, Red and her red hood.  Regina's red cape with the broach looked lovely in Camelot and Zelena totally rocked her Storybrooke outfit after escaping capture.  She looked pretty darn good for a woman who had just given birth.  Also, Merida looked very pretty in that final coronation scene.  

[DeLurker]

Show makes my head hurt.

 

At this point, I don't even know if there are any noble intentions buried underneath all of Arthur's dark deeds.  And when he was the knight that stabbed King Fergie, he looked substantially taller/bigger than he does normally.

 

It has been so long since I've seen Red/Ruby, I wasn't sure if that was original recipe Ruby or another pretty land haired actress.

 

ETA:  Wonder if the 2nd ep was cobbled together at the last minute to fill the time slot for Wicked City (which I thought played after OuaT).

Edited November 16, 2015 by DeLurker

[Curio]

Why would turning Killian into the Dark One make Emma DARK, SHOW?!

 

How does it not? If you turn someone against their free will and against their dying wish into the Dark One villain, that certainly doesn't make you light.