B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[ByaNose]

Luckily, for us Ridge is the voice of reason. <sarcasm> He's delusional, right? He's lives on that street called denial, right?

[Anna Yolei]

57 minutes ago, La di Diva said:

I've always thought that Caroline's morning after Oh Nos were based, not on the no consent, but on the fact that she was unfaithful to Ridge.  That No, No, No was her beating herself up for having sex with another man, being unfaithful to Ridge -- even though he broke up with her.

And I will never, ever buy CaRidge as the twu wuv for the ages.  Ridge has gotten himself a worshipful, semi-stepford, young trophy wife and has proved he's still the big swinging peen that all the girls go for.  Can you say mid-life crisis.  Of course you can.  Same as with Eric and Brooke all those years ago.

And Caroline?  Caroline has a huge case of hero worship for the Great and Talented Ridge Forrester International Super Designer.  He chose little ol' her to be his hands when he couldn't draw.  He was all flattery and smiles and seductive touches and this is our secret and no one can know not even Rick.  And in her hero worship she bought into it. That's not love -- that's a huge crush and infatuation,  And... I've always though there was a little bit of sticking it to Rick in Ridge's pursuit of Caroline.

Why can't there be someone new for Caroline who will help her grow up and become her own person.  Where is Det. Dr. HardOn when you need him, No really, where is he? I thought he was joining the show.

All of this.

Hell, apart from the weirdness with Bridget, Ridge has never been shown to be interested in much younger women. Even apart from his lack of acting ability, I do think RM managed to bring a certain charm to the role (in the early years anyway) that TK lacks even putting aside his looks that are polarizing at best.

[slayer2]

5 hours ago, Cupid Stunt said:

In the Caroline montage: She's remembering waking up next to Thomas crying out "NO NO NO NO!" after he told her he had "made love" to her.

"NO NO NO NO!" indicates that Caroline did not consent to Thomas having sex with her drugged and drunk person.

 

AMEN Country Girl. Politichick and Joimiaroxeu!

No it doesn't. It indicates her having regret  for what happened the night before. Mileage varies of course but those who've made perceived mistakes are quite prone to act as Caroline did with Thomas. Especially knowing who Caroline has been written as and who Thomas has been written as, this is a woman who set Maya up to be potentially raped and then played coy about it, and Thomas is a guy shown longing for Dayzee long after his lie proved for fatal to their relationship, following their character progression I just can't buy Thomas as the rapist on innuendo and edited scenes. If Thomas is a rapist they'd better prove it because nothing in his past indicates this but everything in Caroline's past indicates that she'll shift blame and assign guilt to avoid taking responsibility for her choices.

Edited May 11, 2016 by slayer2

[CountryGirl]

I think it was proven by what I already stated above but I'm not going to rehash it because apparently, Thomas screwing Caroline's unconscious body on-screen is needed to prove it. 

I weep for the rape victims out there who don't have the act on tape for their trials, which I would guess about zero of them have.

Someone who makes a "mistake" doesn't act as if they want to physically vomit the moment any mention of the night of said mistake comes up months after the fact. They don't wrap their arms around themselves to physically protect themselves. It's not about Caroline's words at this point so much as her body language. 

For that one night alone, I can buy Thomas as a rapist, but we don't just have that one night, do we? 

Before and after he raped Caroline, he screwed at least a few of the interns, Charlotte and Michelle, and kissed Nicole, and these young ladies are what, 18-22 to his late 20s or early 30s self and he is the son of the boss? Who has been told already to stay away from the interns??? At the very least, it's sexual harassment because despite consent, he is in a position of authority as the boss' son and therefore, these young, impressionable, eager to please interns simply aren't on the same playing field. 

After he raped Caroline, he moved on to Ivy, who was clearly with Wyatt, even attempting to make a gross bet with Steffy about how he could and would seduce her. Just because he could. Nevermind that she was attached and his cousin to boot. He constantly made advances on her as only a predator of his nature can do. 

Then you have the pesky little details of his setting Rick's house on fire, blowing up Rick's car, lying about having sex with Brooke to get Satanie's stock and blow up Bridge (and this after creeping on Brooke and kissing her while she slept - hmmm, sounds awfully familiar), and causing Rick to crash through a second-story window over Caroline (which is when Caroline dumped him because she was afraid of him and rightfully so).

Now, add kidnapping to the list.

Ridge may be the biggest tool that ever tooled, especially with TK in the role, but that has not one scintilla to do with Thomas and his incredible lack of boundaries. 

Edited May 11, 2016 by CountryGirl

[Joimiaroxeu]

53 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

apparently, Thomas screwing Caroline's unconscious body on-screen is needed to prove it. 

And afterward Caroline has to go running into the street screaming that she'd been raped. This is the main reason why I wish daytime soaps would stop trying use these oh-so-clever-but-not-really variations on rape as entertainment. We already live in a reality where women celebrities can openly say stuff like "Well, it's not rape rape" and male political officials can openly say stuff like, "Well, if she enjoyed it/got pregnant/was drunk/was married to him/was showing too much skin" it wasn't rape. Daytime soaps are not adding to the solution to the problem, IMO, with these kinds of storylines. What I think they're doing instead is muddying the waters further and slowly increasing tolerance for sexual violation (both against women and men; AFAIC, Quinn raped Liam as well.) Grrr...it's too early in the day for this...

I really hope Ridge and Caroline break up of this mess. I've never been on the CaRidge train and wouldn't mind seeing it crash and burn. Ridge treats Caroline like a child and she tolerates it, partially due to their age difference---IMO. Let him find someone his own age who's willing to be handled like chattel.

[CountryGirl]

VWS, Joimiaroxeu. 

It's disgusting that rape or some version of sexual assault is being trotted out as entertainment. Still. In 2016.

We have a million and one other storyline possibilities so why TPTB think we would want to tune in for this is beyond me. Because they almost never get it right as far as giving a realistic representation and even when they do, who wants to see this?

I, for one, don't. It happens far too often in real life, including a few close friends. I don't need to watch this on my screen.  

And I especially don't want to watch it when it's left open to interpretation for viewers or, worse, when the victim falls in love with their rapist. Because I feel like that is exactly where they are going to go with Quinn and Liam and, if I'm not mistaken, Caroline and Thomas, because of course she would be drawn to the father of her child. 

Please excuse me for a moment while I go throw up my breakfast.

ETA: To your other point regarding CaRidge, I hated them in the beginning because I cannot abide cheating, but then they kinda sorta grew on me and Rick had moved on with Maya, but now, I'm back to hating them again. I'm sick of Ridge treating Caroline like a child and worse, her allowing it, but if she was, as I believe, victimized and obviously never got help, it makes sense she would continue in that role.

The more that I think about it, I think when Ridge was injured/couldn't draw and Caroline was helping him, they were on more equal footing but once he had his drawing mojo back and became CEO, all bets were off and I started to see the shift in their dynamic.

For example, their wedding, where he decides when/where/how and there are no family or friends there? 

His deciding to keep the paternity of Douglas a secret. 

He's calling all the shots and she's just standing there like a deer in the headlights and this is true love?

No thank you.

Edited May 11, 2016 by CountryGirl

[AussieBabe]

This show perplexes me. If memory serves me right, didn't Ridge take advantage of one or two women? I hate this storyline and where it might be heading. Caroline needs to leave Ridge. Taking advantage of someone is entertainment or a good idea. I'm not convinced they were intimate. He's a douche of a character, but I hope he didn't do anything in her weakened state. Bell and his half arse storylines leave much to be desired. YMMV. I was on another board, and the opinions vary on there, too. It is like beating a dead horse because one person's perception may be this or that while x begs to differ. I will say that he did take advantage of the situation. He should've been a friend, a sounding board, and hell...a gentleman. 

In other soapy terribleness...I still don't like Wyatt. Steffy showed up at his house. I just can't root for him and his thirst. I just want to send him a case of water as a wedding gift. He's trying desperately to hold on to someone who is basically staying with him out of guilt. Her commitment didn't mean jack when she was cuddling with his brother. I'm waiting for Liam to remember that and let her go. I don't want a Quinn/Liam pairing. That's just sickening. He should've called the cops when he had the chance. And where's Dr. Hardon? I think Liam would do well curling up on his chaise lounge and talking to a professional.

I'm sick of the writers painting all of the women as weak, spineless shrinking violets. I noticed it yesterday with Steffy and Wyatt speaking on her behalf like she is incapable of speaking on her behalf. I've been noticed it with Caroline and her wanna be daddy. It's irritating. 

[Anna Yolei]

Quote

This show perplexes me. If memory serves me right, didn't Ridge take advantage of one or two women?

He sure did, and both of those were played down even more than this shit. Hell, Ridge himself got taken advantage of by Taylor once.

If you can find the clips of original Caroline's rape, it's well worth the effort to see just how well written that one was compared to this one and the one with Brooke in 2007. That journey felt like it was hers, and not just a vehicle to get her paired up to either of the Forrester men like Brooke's story eventually became or how this has become a pissing match for Ridge and Thomas.

On a shallow note, I liked Steffy's sweater and liked her own, natural looking hair so far. Even Rick/JY looked like far less of a hot mess this week (I still vote for the beard to go, however).

Will the Avants be on tomorrow? I can't believe I'm writing this, but let's go back to that, please. I'm looking forward to seeing Maya chew Julius out for this, which is something I can't believe I'm writing considering how I rolled my eyes at her MEMEMEME routine during her wedding last year towards him. But seeing how high and mighty he's been towards her "ruining his reputation" while harboring another child, I can give her a pass.

[ch1]

Quote

I'm sick of the writers painting all of the women as weak, spineless shrinking violets. I noticed it yesterday with Steffy and Wyatt speaking on her behalf like she is incapable of speaking on her behalf. I've been noticed it with Caroline and her wanna be daddy. It's irritating.

They've done the same thing to Quinn.  I guess if you are hooked up with Ridge or Liam you are screwed as a character.

[CountryGirl]

Anna Yolei, as painful as it was to see Caroline I's rape, at least that was portrayed much more realistically and it was all about what Caroline was going through and her own journey, as you so aptly put it, towards healing. 

Ugh, you guys reminded me that Brooke was raped not once, but twice, once by Ridge while she was knocked out on pain meds (wow, the dingleberry doesn't fall far from the asshole, does it?) and then a few years later by Andy. And she was almost raped on her very first day of the show by those creeps in the van.

On a less anger-inducing topic, where the heck are the Avants? I want to see the fall-out from the Sasha reveal dammit, especially (and I can't believe I'm saying this either, LOL) Maya reading him for the hypocritical filth he is.

[CountryGirl]

In an attempt to add some levity here, I just found this gem of a photo while researching the Brooke/Ridge rape:

 

Ridgey's got a gun...

[Cupid Stunt]

8 hours ago, slayer2 said:

No it doesn't. It indicates her having regret  for what happened the night before. Mileage varies of course but those who've made perceived mistakes are quite prone to act as Caroline did with Thomas. Especially knowing who Caroline has been written as and who Thomas has been written as, this is a woman who set Maya up to be potentially raped and then played coy about it, and Thomas is a guy shown longing for Dayzee long after his lie proved for fatal to their relationship, following their character progression I just can't buy Thomas as the rapist on innuendo and edited scenes. If Thomas is a rapist they'd better prove it because nothing in his past indicates this but everything in Caroline's past indicates that she'll shift blame and assign guilt to avoid taking responsibility for her choices.

Then reading the Day after Rape Night transcript won't clarify matters either.

http://tvmegasite.net/transcripts/bb/older/2015/bb-trans-09-02-15.shtml

[ByTor]

Moving on from the rape debate...I mean, as cute as bunnies are, I think we're in danger of getting one :)

15 hours ago, Cupid Stunt said:

From day one, TK's Ridge has been written dictating who what when where why everyone is supposed to who what when where why. He dumped Brooke, then ran off to stop Brooke from marrying $Bill, then dropped her like a hot rock. When he came back unable to draw, he swore Katie to secrecy, and used Caroline's GirlFan idolatry of him, swore her to secrecy and had her be his hands. After having her lie to Rick (convenient, since Ridge hated Rick being CEO of Forrester Creations), taking possession of Caroline's hands, Ridge took possession of the rest of her (dropping Katie like a hot rock), and he's been telling Caroline what to do and what she needs to know ever since.

This perfectly describes why I hate TK Ridge.  Would RM Ridge be written this way if he were still here?  Maybe, but TK is just so damn smarmy I just can't get past it.

[Waldo13]

I can see that many posters have various opinions if Thomas actually  committed rape or not. We are all entitled to our opinions but I still contended that Thomas took advantage of Caroline in her drunk, drug, and emotional induced state.  Thomas was foaming at the mouth to fuck Caroline, as he was with Ivy, and would take any opportunity to do so.  Thomas didn't give a crap about anything but his own pleasure and planted his seed without protection.  Rape or not, a real man doesnt take advantage of a woman who's hardly coherent. Think about this, if Caroline might have given her concent, in her reduced capacity, she could have thought it was Ridge.  IMO, the no no no was a denial of consenting to Thomas' advances. She looked horrified that Thomas was in her bed. 

[apbr]

NOW, I understand why so many posters can't stand Katie!

[CountryGirl]

51 minutes ago, apbr said:

NOW, I understand why so many posters can't stand Katie!

Come join us in the shallow end of the pool, the water's warm.

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

Moving on from the rape debate...I mean, as cute as bunnies are, I think we're in danger of getting one :)

This perfectly describes why I hate TK Ridge.  Would RM Ridge be written this way if he were still here?  Maybe, but TK is just so damn smarmy I just can't get past it.

He really is, isn't he? For all his ridiculousness, I really wish RM would return. Even when he was being a dick, he had a certain je nai sais quoi about him that TK just doesn't have or if he wouldn't return, then kill him off. TK should never have been brought in to replace him because they are different as daylight and dark. He's turned the character into one I occasionally loved and mostly loved to hate into pretty much hate. Only Pricturd Newman and NeverBilly NotAnAbbot surpass my level of hatred for TK's Ridge.

Make that Fridge.

[slayer2]

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

Moving on from the rape debate...I mean, as cute as bunnies are, I think we're in danger of getting one :)

This perfectly describes why I hate TK Ridge.  Would RM Ridge be written this way if he were still here?  Maybe, but TK is just so damn smarmy I just can't get past it.

Good point, we keep it up and it's Easter Bunny Central in here. I agree about TK's RIdge. I grew up on RM's Ridge so I'm not sure how much that colours it but TK's Ridge in comparison is just impossible to empathize with. The way RM earned his waffle title came earnestly, there was always something in the back of his performance that intimated that he wasn't entirely convinced of whatever he was doing or saying, which to be frank TK could use because this wealthy, entitlement he infuses in every.damn.thing. he says smacks of mansplaining and Caroline is just the young ingénue with a massive case of hero worship who should be nowhere near his person nevermind his appendage.

[KLovestoShop]

Thomas takes Douglas to some cheap motel, or at least it looks like a very cheap motel.  And if Thomas lives there, what the hell?  Why would he live in a place that looks like it rents by the hour?  

Why isn't anyone talking about how this child was conceived?  That baby wasn't exactly made out of the love of two people.  Thomas needs to be taken to task that this infant was born out of nasty actions on his part.  

Is it the writing that makes Thomas creepy or is it the actor who's just creepy?  I think this particular actor is creepy, but I've never liked any of the actors who've played Thomas as they have all been too metrosexual looking, imho.

[KerleyQ]

Thomas going on and on to Caroline about how they "created" Douglas was making my skin crawl.  

[Cupid Stunt]

7 minutes ago, KLovestoShop said:

Thomas takes Douglas to some cheap motel, or at least it looks like a very cheap motel.  And if Thomas lives there, what the hell?  Why would he live in a place that looks like it rents by the hour?  

That's the legendary Forrester Big Bear cabin. Thomas doesn't live there, but I admit the bedroom he took Doug to is nothing to get excited about.

Quote

Why isn't anyone talking about how this child was conceived?  That baby wasn't exactly made out of the love of two people.  Thomas needs to be taken to task that this infant was born out of nasty actions on his part

Because TIIC want the waters muddied by assumption, Ridge's anger, Caroline capitulating, Katie /Brooke's interference, Thomas being a major creep with no remorse, and the viewer's personal bias.

Quote

Is it the writing that makes Thomas creepy or is it the actor who's just creepy?  I think this particular actor is creepy, but I've never liked any of the actors who've played Thomas as they have all been too metrosexual looking, imho.

All of the Thomas' have been creeps, selfish douchebags and violent nut jobs.

[TobinAlbers]

So Rick, with all your ranting about Ridge isn't a Forrester because he's biologically a Marone crap do you realize that that narrowed minded thinking extends to your upcoming bundle of joy not being Maya's biologically and so 'it's not Maya's kid'? Yes, she's related biologically but Nicole Avant is that kid's biological mother so....should Maya be dismissed? I bet she feels differently on the matter.

Katie has a lot of nerve to still be sauntering around Forrester on her high horse, then getting hysterical at Ridge 'OMG did you call the police?! Why are you here?! You let Caroline go alone?!' Then flipping back to ' Well, you can understand why he's upset and needs time to process.' Regardless of Ridge's craziness, Katie takes the came. I kinda feel for HT because I'm sure she knows Katie's dialogue is stupid but she's playing it as best she can.

[Bill C.]

If I heard him correctly, Thomas actually said to Caroline--after kidnapping her son, of course--that "something beautiful" came out of Rape Night.  Okay.  (a) it's a cliche that we didn't need, or at least not right frigging now, and (b) it wasn't preceded by an extended anger jag from Caroline about Thomas kidnapping her child in the first place.  (Seriously: if she had just slapped him one time when she showed up at Big Bear, the rest of the episode would have earned a total pass.  Screw the Ridge aspect--he kidnapped your child, girl.)  And this alllll goes back to Cupid Stunt's astute observation that

7 minutes ago, Cupid Stunt said:

...TIIC want the waters muddied by assumption, Ridge's anger, Caroline capitulating, Katie /Brooke's interference, Thomas being a major creep with no remorse, and the viewer's personal bias.

It might not even go that far, though: if anything, today's episode seemed to cement Katie as the sort of smug, sanctimonious heavy to it all.  And not even Ridge halfheartedly bitching at her about that didn't help.  The only thing that makes sense, as we've speculated before, is that the show wants us to hate Katie in preparation for some sort of karmic backlash or something.  Still got no clue what, unless her butting into other people's business was acting as a substitute for booze...

The really messed up thing, though?  Maya found out about Sasha's secret offscreen.  The one person, other than Vivienne, who perhaps most deserved to drag the fuck out of Julius for this--and Show blatantly denied us that.  Fuck that, show!

[Foghorn Leghorn]

OMG, could Caroline have overreacted and screeched any louder today?!  Yikes and give that girl some kleenex for her scenes instead of wiping her nose on her hands over and over then touching the baby?!  OY VEY!  What was Thomas, THE FATHER, going to do with dear little Douglas anyway.  Nothing!  Katie sticking her nose in, isn't there a fifth calling her name somewhere.....

Edited May 11, 2016 by Foghorn Leghorn
any not and!

[ByTor]

35 minutes ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

OMG, could Caroline have overreacted and screeched and louder today?!  

I haven't even seen today's show yet and I agree with you! :)

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, Bill C. said:

 

The really messed up thing, though?  Maya found out about Sasha's secret offscreen.  The one person, other than Vivienne, who perhaps most deserved to drag the fuck out of Julius for this--and Show blatantly denied us that.  Fuck that, show!

Say what now?

We have to see Hatie stick her smug nose where it doesn't belong and the saga of Chicken and Waffles for days and we don't get the payback we deserve?

Fuck you in the ass, show!

[Bill C.]

1 hour ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

OMG, could Caroline have overreacted and screeched and louder today?!  Yikes and give that girl some kleenex for her scenes instead of wiping her nose on her hands over and over then touching the baby?!  OY VEY!

Unfortunately, from the minute she set foot in the cabin at Big Bear, Caroline mostly got the Steffy "wimmens don't speak when the menfolk are talkin'" treatment while Thomas got to monologue about the beautiful thing that came from his night with her and how Ridge is TEH EVUL.  Not that LG's facial expressions aren't awesome, but damn--she could have said something, anything, to make things more graceful.

[apbr]

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion but I believe Thomas raped Caroline.  If it's rape when a frat boy roofies a girl and does whatever he wants to her, then this was rape.  Maybe it's because I grew up with a mother who was raped as a young woman and seeing the way it affected her life but, dang it, if you're unable to give consent, it's rape.  Then you have to decide whether you believe a rapist should be given parental rights to a child that comes about because of the rape.  I don't believe they should.  On top of that, as far as I can see, Thomas has no remorse for his actions.

Thomas is just creepy!  They had him stalking Caroline from the minute he raped her, even going so far as to show up for ultrasounds and the like that should be private.  This show seems to have a skewed opinion as to sex and love.  Lust and sex does not a great love make!

They ruined Katie for me when they had her get into everyone else's business and force this issue.  Brooke was bad enough but this was beyond the pale.  Then they made Ridge and Caroline "stoopid" to even respond to her with anything other than "It's none of your business."  As my Granny used to say, "the characters in this show don't have the sense God gave a flea!"

[AussieBabe]

4 hours ago, Bill C. said:

The really messed up thing, though?  Maya found out about Sasha's secret offscreen.  The one person, other than Vivienne, who perhaps most deserved to drag the fuck out of Julius for this--and Show blatantly denied us that.  Fuck that, show!

They always do this. We had a beautiful week last week with all of the Avants bringing it. I was waiting for Maya to drag him within an inch of his life. Stupid writers. I'm pissed that the viewers were robbed of that. 

[KerleyQ]

Seriously, show?  Seriously?  I don't even like Maya, and I'm pissed that we didn't get to see her reaction to the Sasha secret.  Come on!  That's just good soap, and you left it out completely?  But, don't worry, I'm sure we'll get Pam, Charlie, and Katie all reacting to that bit of news instead.  

[Anna Yolei]

This was the one time in God knows how long that Maya's shrill indignation is not only called for, but well deserved. If TIIC couldn't be assed to write a second scene of Julius and Maya, they could've worked her in last week, no?

i guess I can skip the next three months of shows, then....

[Waldo13]

Hey Katie, if honestly is the best policy than why the fuck have you been lying, to Bill, about your drinking.  Katie should just eat shit and die  

 

I feel bad for Caroline. She is in a catch 22 situation between her love for Ridge and and her guilt for lying to Thomas.  The fact that she most likely is in a state of postpartum doesn't help.

 

Rick you whinny little man-child, I wish you would eat shit and die just like Katie.  

[blackwing]

I have no opinion on whether Thomas raped Caroline. Whether it was rape or not doesn't change the fact that Caroline got pregnant and had the baby.  Then she passed the baby off as Ridge's and she and Ridge lied to everyone about it.

Regardless of how creepy Thomas has been in the past, I can't help but feel that he is the wronged party here.  His father lied to him repeatedly, and Caroline, who he had a good relationship with, did the same.  

I can't stand Ridge.  I have loathed both incarnations of Ridge but this one seems like a sanctimonious bully.  And Caroline hysterically shrieking on and on... If I could reach into my TV I would have shoved a gag into her mouth.  Thomas just found out he is the baby's father.  Did she really think he was going to harm the baby?  She was upset that their lie got caught.

I hope Thomas sues for custody and I hope Ridge's name gets eradicated from the birth certificate.

[Kitty Redstone]

5 hours ago, apbr said:

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion but I believe Thomas raped Caroline.  If it's rape when a frat boy roofies a girl and does whatever he wants to her, then this was rape.  Maybe it's because I grew up with a mother who was raped as a young woman and seeing the way it affected her life but, dang it, if you're unable to give consent, it's rape.  Then you have to decide whether you believe a rapist should be given parental rights to a child that comes about because of the rape.  I don't believe they should.  On top of that, as far as I can see, Thomas has no remorse for his actions.

Thomas is just creepy!  They had him stalking Caroline from the minute he raped her, even going so far as to show up for ultrasounds and the like that should be private.  This show seems to have a skewed opinion as to sex and love.  Lust and sex does not a great love make!

They ruined Katie for me when they had her get into everyone else's business and force this issue.  Brooke was bad enough but this was beyond the pale.  Then they made Ridge and Caroline "stoopid" to even respond to her with anything other than "It's none of your business."  As my Granny used to say, "the characters in this show don't have the sense God gave a flea!"

I also think Thomas raped Caroline, and damn if I can figure out why Thomas' rape of Caroline is all about everything but that.  Thomas is a creepy rapist, Ridge is a douche, Katie is a self-righteous asshole ... and Caroline passively takes all the bullshit these three people are spewing.  It's awful.  Sometimes, when I remember to watch this show, I wonder why I bother.

[LittleIggy]

Let's look at the positive in all this crap: Douglas is freakin' adorable! When he smiled at Caroline today...awwwww!

BTW, the previous Thomas, he of the blinding veneers and boink berry fame, was on L&O:SVU tonight. 

[Anna Yolei]

So, I came across what looks like the preview for tomorrow's episode and HOLY SPOILERS BATMAN, Rick is whining about Ridge the Marone running Forrester Creations. Can you believe it?! Neither can I!

:facepalm:

As elevated and entitled as Ridge has been in the past, he's been working there alongside Eric since before Rick N. Titled  was even born. They had their conflicts over the designs (young playboy Ridge preferring more revealing clothes, because Ridge) but he's put in time and effort to get where he's at to be CEO. More importantly, Ridge was doing this well before his paternity ever became an issue. What's Rick gonna do when his own kid brother/nephew Ridge Jr. wants a position in the company on his 18th birthday? What about Hope who doesn't have a drop of Forrester or Marone blood in her veins? Her position was gifted to her because Aunt Katie wanted to spite Brooke 2.0 aka Steffy Forrester. 

Hell, Rick's initial foothold into FC on his 18th birthday had less to do with his qualities and far more to do with him knocking up Amber and raising Little Eric--a child that wasn't even his, as it turned out. Ain't that some much forgotten irony for ya?

I'd love for Rick to get his memory back about shooting Grant and realizing how much he owes Ridge for not  having to spend his teen years in an insane asylum.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Anna Yolei

[MsTree]

What some people fail to remember is that Thomas was also drunk that fateful night. When the mind is in an altered state, it doesn't process words and actions properly...and often people hear only what they want to hear. And some don't hear anything at all.

[Waldo13]

1 hour ago, MsTree said:

What some people fail to remember is that Thomas was also drunk that fateful night. When the mind is in an altered state, it doesn't process words and actions properly...and often people hear only what they want to hear. And some don't hear anything at all.

To be fare, Thomas was not nearly as  drunk as Caroline. Caroline was just about passed out where Thomas was still able to put the moves on Caroline, get it up, and still had enough sensation in his little brain to climax. If he was all that drunk, as much as he tried, nothing would have happened.  But in any case, I believe that there is a slim possibility that the baby is Ridge's.  The odds are about the same as Ridge impregnating Caroline as Thomas impregnating Caroline that late in her cycle.   

Edited May 12, 2016 by Waldo13

[ByTor]

10 hours ago, Waldo13 said:

Hey Katie, if honestly is the best policy than why the fuck have you been lying, to Bill, about your drinking.  Katie should just eat shit and die   

I can't believe that never occurred to me, excellent point!  So I will say something I said several times while watching yesterday's show...shut up, Katie! 
 

14 hours ago, AussieBabe said:

They always do this. We had a beautiful week last week with all of the Avants bringing it. I was waiting for Maya to drag him within an inch of his life. Stupid writers. I'm pissed that the viewers were robbed of that.

Did I miss Maya talking to Rick about it?  I didn't see anything so assumed she wasn't told yet.  There's no way there wouldn't be a scene with Maya finding out & ripping her father to shreds.
 

8 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Let's look at the positive in all this crap: Douglas is freakin' adorable! When he smiled at Caroline today...awwwww!

I don't think Thomas or Caroline are good actors, but I will give them credit for staying in character while he sat there smiling, that was too cute!

[Kerri Okie]

I'm trying to understand Ridge's reasoning with Thomas: "If you're the man I think you are, you'll walk away and let me raise your child."  Except Ridge thinks Thomas is so horrible he can barely stand to look at him, in which case, a man like that would do no such thing.  OTOH, if Thomas did what Ridge asked of him, wouldn't it prove that he actually is mature enough to be at least a part time father to Douglas?  Regardless of what anyone thinks of Thomas, he's in a no win situation, without even a chance at leveling the playing field.

[CountryGirl]

I think we are all very aware of the fact that Thomas was drinking but clearly not enough to prevent him from doing the deed and remembering exactly what had happened the morning after where he proclaimed they had "made love."

Puke.

Regardless, Thomas' voluntary intoxication is not a valid defense to rape.

[Bill C.]

42 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Did I miss Maya talking to Rick about it?  I didn't see anything so assumed she wasn't told yet.  There's no way there wouldn't be a scene with Maya finding out & ripping her father to shreds.

It was at the beginning of yesterday's episode and ran maybe a minute or so before Rick went into the usual "Ridge is TEH EVUL" spiel.  The only explanation that makes any kind of sense to me is that Show wants Maya completely over in Rick's bubble for whatever's likely coming from the Douglas paternity fallout, but even then...c'mon now!  Why couldn't she at least have wandered into House Forrester when everybody else was there?

[ch1]

59 minutes ago, Kerri Okie said:

I'm trying to understand Ridge's reasoning with Thomas: "If you're the man I think you are, you'll walk away and let me raise your child."  Except Ridge thinks Thomas is so horrible he can barely stand to look at him, in which case, a man like that would do no such thing.  OTOH, if Thomas did what Ridge asked of him, wouldn't it prove that he actually is mature enough to be at least a part time father to Douglas?  Regardless of what anyone thinks of Thomas, he's in a no win situation, without even a chance at leveling the playing field.

I hate these types of stories.  Nothing bothers me more with soaps then stories where people claim kids like they are a plot of land.  The kid is not a possession.  Caroline and Ridge don't get to pick and choose who gets to play daddy.  

[ByTor]

Thanks @Bill C. That's ridiculous, a father lying about parenting another child is a huge deal, and every member of the Avant family should have had their moment to lash out.

[La di Diva]

Wait... Wait... Did I hear Rick Le Doosh correctly yesterday when he said Ridge was the product of a "scandalous affair" and that's why Ridge is all secretive and stuff?

If I remember the Ridge paternity reveal. Stephanie was dating Eric in college, had a one-nighter or so with Massimo, got pregnant, and told Eric it was his, so they got married.  Eric at the time had no reason to disbelieve Stephanie because they were sleeping together.  

So if Rick Le Doosh thinks the sins of the parents come out in the children, what about his sainted Forrester-Avant offspring?  Rick tried to kill Grant, Rick had an affair with Maya while married to Caroline, Rick tried to shoot CaRidge, Nicole the Baby Mama is the daughter of lyin' cheatin' Julius, Rick is the son of slept her way through the Forrester family Brooke.

Wow.... that's a whole lot of sins to be visited on the F-A baby. Rick Le Doosh indeed.

Anyone taking bets on the F-A baby's sex and name?  Me first. It will be a boy so in the future he can feud with Douglas (RidRick 2.0)  and will be named Eric Forrester III to further cement Le Doosh's belief that he is the only real Forrester.

Of course, there is an evil part of me that wants the F-A baby to be Erica who falls in love with Douglas as a teenager.  Semi-incestous cousin lovin' but no actual blood ties

[Anna Yolei]

Rick's kid he raised with Amber is already named Eric III, but it wouldn't surprise me if the writers ignore this. They've ignored all his past romantic history before Maya anyway.

[LittleIggy]

Rick the Dick's whining is beyond the bounds of human endurance! I want to staple his mouth shut!

[Cupid Stunt]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 1:11 PM, KerleyQ said:

Thomas going on and on to Caroline about how they "created" Douglas was making my skin crawl.  

 

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 1:38 PM, Bill C. said:

If I heard him correctly, Thomas actually said to Caroline--after kidnapping her son, of course--that "something beautiful" came out of Rape Night.  Okay.  (a) it's a cliche that we didn't need, or at least not right frigging now,

This is a return to the Bell family's fixation on birthright/bloodright patrimony theories, and magical thinking about sex acts, biology and parenthood.

Thomas connects his fascination and depth of feeling for Doug because he's the biological father, but that isn't how it works. Thomas is selfish to the core, and always has been. Thomas has been play-acting at being a better person and more agreeable human to placate his guilt over his jealousy and rage at Ridge and Caroline choosing each other, and raping Caroline -- There is also the desire to be a cherished member of the Forrester family (particularly Ridge) and career aspirations that are involved in Thomas curbing his asshat characteristics. He can apologize until the sun don't shine, and tell Caroline and himself that he misread her behavior on Rape Night, but he still had sex with her when she was chemically compromised and incapable of consent.

Thomas returned to L.A. to push his way into being a designer at Forrester Creations and winning Caroline back. Thomas worked very hard at both, even when he wasn't very successful at either and it frustrated him. Sexual innuendoes, crowding into her personal space and sniffing her hair, dismissing Caroline's romantic interest in the inconstant, ancient and disloyal Ridge -- Thomas worked his seduction techniques on Caroline like a rodeo clown to no effect, and he was filled with envy and resentment at both of them. That didn't stop Thomas from working on Caroline, he only changed his method and approach with her. I want you to be happy ... but my father doesn't make any woman happy for long. We can be friends and colleagues ... but I'll shadow your fine ass to pick your brain and design unoriginal gowns that please my father, waiting for any opening to change my sexual status with you. I'm available to you, any time, any place ... because I know if you gave me one chance, you would see I'm 5x the man my lyingfaithlesstreacherous father is ... and all I need is one opportunity to prove it to you. Thomas got his opportunity to prove his true worth to Caroline.

Ridge refused to tell Caroline he had a vasectomy, and broke their engagement with little explanation. Heartbroken and abandoned, betrayed by the man she had wrecked her first marriage to be possessed by, dismissed by the man she had collaborated and had focused her designing career around -- Caroline was an over-wrought and hysterical mess, and leaves their love loft. She coincidentally finds Pam's anti-anxiety medication (What could it hurt?), and goes to a hotel to self-medicate and lick her wounds. Thomas calls her on a matter of banal dress design, hears her bawling over Ridge and gallops to her side. Caroline has already taken the unprescribed medication and some wine, when Thomas joins her. Much Boo Hooing over Ridge breaking up with her -- I love him with all my being why would he do this I don't understand blah blah blah -- and another bottle of wine later, Caroline is smashed and Thomas makes his play -- disregarding everything Caroline said to him about how she felt about his father -- and demonstrated what a tone-deaf, selfish, covetous, and tender rapist he could be.

"That something so perfect and beautiful came into being from an act so despicable, simmered in jealousy and rage," is another false belief in a fabulous cause-and-effect relationship in revolting and undesired events. Thomas has convinced himself that Doug's existence physically changes him and the act that brought Doug into being -- I'm momentarily setting aside that no one knows who Doug's biological father actually is. Most of Thomas' fantasies exist entirely in his own mind and he is the hero; that he has been changing his behavior for the better, that he's working on his career goals and design skills, that he's working on improving his relationship with Ridge with good results, that a thousand apologies will change his continued crass and insensitive behavior to Caroline, that finding out he might be Doug's biological father changes him in some profound way. You haven't changed when you lie, take an infant from his parents on a cross-country trip so that you can speak to in isolation, to manipulate the hysterical mother and woman you raped.

Thomas has every reason to be angry that Ridge and Caroline have been lying about what they believe is most likely Doug's biological paternity, but Thomas does not have justification acting rashly when in possession of an infant. You don't get to fly off the handle and do whatever you fucking want when you're a parent. The child's safety and well-being is your first responsibility and consideration. Your second responsibility and consideration is to the other parent of that child, and treating that person in a reasonable and civil manner.

Thomas may be enamored with Doug, imagining cornering Caroline at the cabin is his opportunity to fly his Happy Family Flag, with the vine-covered cottage with he and Doug and Caroline living blissfully ever after, but that's going to be a huge leap for Caroline right now. I expect Thomas will work triple time to convince her.

Caroline is a vacillating, over-wrought, unfaithful, angry and unconvinced wife of Ridge Forrester. Against her own instincts she agreed to lie about her pregnancy, and has been constantly playing catch-up or being bullied into Ridge's overly-complicated lies and deceptions about Doug. She had tried to approach Ridge about a DNA test or telling Thomas, and Ridge categorically refused consider those options; he doesn't want to know the paternity, because it would make everything too real, and doesn't want Thomas involved because he's still punishing him for Rape Night and knows Thomas is completely untrustworthy when it comes to Caroline. Caroline is exhausted from keeping up with all of Ridge's lies about Doug being HIS SON. She wants to raise Doug in peace, without the constant anxiety of a new series of lies to cover other lies Ridge manufactured and didn't happen to mention to her, not having to watch out for another anvil drop from fate or TIIC, and not being forced to defend herself from another intrusive family member looking under ashtrays and sniffing couch cushions. Caroline is done picking a safe path through the mine field Ridge has created around Doug.

Does Caroline empathize with Thomas? Sure. He's been all over her in apologies and she's been warming up to Thomas, while wavering on Ridge's orders about Doug's paternity questions.

Will she choose to side with Thomas, risking Ridge's anger? Maybe. She's obviously frustrated with Ridge's leadership and dictating the agenda with Doug.

I think Caroline wants to know who is Doug's father is, regardless of the timing of Rape Night or the vasectomy/Penis Flytrap issues, so she can make the right decision and act responsibly for HER SON. On the other side, Ridge and Thomas are readying for a jealous war of attrition over possession of Doug and Caroline, and the SECRET is going to be made public in a very ugly way -- Hello, Rick.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Cupid Stunt

[CountryGirl]

Spot on, post, Cupid Stunt!

I hope Caroline tells Ridge and Thomas to go kick rocks and raises little Douglas on her own, far, way from their self-destructive ways. 

Ridge feels as if he's somehow "owed" Douglas because of how he was conceived and he needs Thomas to keep the happy little family intact. He's a child, Ridge, not some box to be checked.

Thomas raped Caroline, creating Douglas (until it's retconned that he's Ridge's miracle baby after all), and shouldn't be allowed within 100 feet of the child who is his son in DNA-name only.

[bannana]

27 minutes ago, Cupid Stunt said:

Caroline is a vacillating, over-wrought, unfaithful, angry and unconvinced wife of Ridge Forrester. Against her own instincts she agreed to lie about her pregnancy, and has been constantly playing catch-up or being bullied into Ridge's overly-complicated lies and deceptions about Doug. She had tried to approach Ridge about a DNA test or telling Thomas, and Ridge categorically refused consider those options; he doesn't want to know the paternity, because it would make everything too real, and doesn't want Thomas involved because he's still punishing him for Rape Night and knows Thomas is completely untrustworthy when it comes to Caroline. Caroline is exhausted from keeping up with all of Ridge's lies about Doug being HIS SON. She wants to raise Doug in peace, without the constant anxiety of a new series of lies to cover other lies Ridge manufactured and didn't happen to mention to her, not having to watch out for another anvil drop from fate or TIIC, and not being forced to defend herself from another intrusive family member looking under ashtrays and sniffing couch cushions. Caroline is done picking a safe path through the mine field Ridge has created around Doug.

Does Caroline empathize with Thomas? Sure. She's been warming up to Thomas and wavering on Ridge's orders about Doug's paternity questions.

Will she choose to side with Thomas, risking Ridge's anger? Maybe. She's obviously frustrated with Ridge's leadership and dictating the agenda with Doug.

I think Caroline wants to know who is Doug's father is, regardless of the timing of Rape Night or the vasectomy/Penis Flytrap issues, so she can make the right decision and act responsibly for HER SON. On the other side, Ridge and Thomas are readying for a jealous war of attrition over possession of Doug and Caroline, and the SECRET is going to be made public in a very ugly way.

I missed when she had wanted a DNA test--which she should have just insisted on or had it done behind his back.  Because it will turn out Douglas is Ridge's son, but now everyone will know about the scandalous affair!

[tricknasty]

So Caroline feels that announcing Doug's paternity will cause a scandal that would follow Doug the rest of his life. What scandal exactly? They live in LA not some small rural community.