S06.E05: Now

[riverheightsnancy]

 

However, I don't understand why there are no people on poke them in the brain duty like back at the prison to keep the pressure off the walls as much as possible.  I guess the gate was the only viable poking place and wouldn't make too much difference.

I know that it is a boring pragmatic approach, but if there are a finite number of walkers that came their way, then a dedicated amount of people (in a safe way) poking their brains, means that at a certain point they will have killed them all. It could take 3 or 4 days, but eventually the math will work in their favor.  I don't get why they are waiting.  Didn't CDB learn anything regarding the fences from the prison? Enough walkers pushing on something can cause serious structual damage (on TWD that is). 

[HighMaintenance]

Yes, why are they not doing the head pokey thing with the zombies like they did at the prison?  Do they not have enough pointy things?    Skewering brains is pretty quiet work and wouldn't draw much attention from the horde.  C'mon, there are plenty of ASZ'ers with nothing to do.  Get them used to the gore and walker creepiness by poking heads with a stick!

[Guest]

I know that it is a boring pragmatic approach, but if there are a finite number of walkers that came their way, then a dedicated amount of people (in a safe way) poking their brains, means that at a certain point they will have killed them all. It could take 3 or 4 days, but eventually the math will work in their favor.  I don't get why they are waiting.  Didn't CDB learn anything regarding the fences from the prison? Enough walkers pushing on something can cause serious structual damage (on TWD that is). 

 

Just proves that in a world with zombie hordes, everyone needs to learn to make and shoot arrows.  The biggest problem with poking in the brain against the gate is that the bodies will pile up and they won't be able to safely reach them eventually.

[Statman]

However, I don't understand why there are no people on poke them in the brain duty like back at the prison to keep the pressure off the walls as much as possible.  I guess the gate was the only viable poking place and wouldn't make too much difference.

 

The spear idea gets bandied alot on forums as an effective means to thin the walker herd crowding outside the ASZ.

 

It could possibly work, but I see several issues with it that would have to be overcome before it can be considered a serious idea:

 

1.  Where would you get the materials for the long spears?  I doubt they have 8-10 feet wood or steel spears just laying around.  Sure they could make wooden spears, but that means someone has to go outside the walls, chop down a big tree with a chain saw (hello major noise?) and then go through what I assume is going to be a long process cutting the tree logs into viable spears.

 

2.  Now assume the spears are finally made, where do they go about doing all the spearing?  The ASZ walls aren't chain link so you can't kill them like at the prison.  Also, it's not like the ASZ has a walkway along the entire length of the wall so they would have to construct more watchtowers or lure the walkers to the main watchtower.  The latter leads to the next issue.

 

3.  Once the spearing begins, the dead walkers would start piling up so the options are as follows:

 

          (i) the live walkers will likely either be blocked by the dead walkers which defeats the purpose of said spearing as the spears are not likely extendable;

          (ii) the live walkers start trodding on the piled up dead walkers and we have a World War Z situation where the eventually climb over the wall; or

          (iii) someone has to clear the dead walker bodies to avoid a pile up after the live walkers are lured to another spot near the ASZ (I am sure everyone will be lining for this very dangerous task).

 

4.  Spearing walkers from the top of a 10 feet+ watchtower doesn't exactly seem like the safest job in the world.  How long until a spear gets stuck in a walker skull and you lose it or the spearer gets pulled over the wall?

[blackwing]

Would the show really kill off Spencer so soon?  He's Deanna's last family member, and that seems a bit too cruel to me if we have to watch her husband and both of her sons die onscreen.  Plus, isn't the actor some sort of minor "name" actor?  By that I mean he's not famous famous, but he was on that show with Chad Michael Murray and dated Sophia Bush.

 

I don't think that was his blood on the wall.  I suppose he could have fallen over to the outside and gotten chomped and bled through the wall.  But I'm thinking it's more likely that it's just showing that walkers are pressing against the wall with such force that some of them are getting smushed.

[riverheightsnancy]

Just proves that in a world with zombie hordes, everyone needs to learn to make and shoot arrows.  The biggest problem with poking in the brain against the gate is that the bodies will pile up and they won't be able to safely reach them eventually.

Yes, everyone should be taught how to use a bow and arrow and a staff by Morgan. When the hoard is dead, They could recollect the arrows like Darryl does all the time. Even though all of the shopping centers are supposedly all cleaned out. Aren't these people near any larger stores? Walmart, & sporting good stores would have hundreds of bows and hunting equipment. I would guess that many places haven't even been broken into yet. I remember when they went into that One Stop store (where Bob caused the shelf to collapse). That store had multitudes of stuff just sitting there. Tons of stuff. A Costco, Sams Club or BJs would have so much stuff. Any larger area might have multiple stores like this. They could have outfitted the prison with an entire ensemble from Ikea! 

[lulee]

The spear idea gets bandied alot on forums as an effective means to thin the walker herd crowding outside the ASZ.

 

It could possibly work, but I see several issues with it that would have to be overcome before it can be considered a serious idea:

 

1.  Where would you get the materials for the long spears?  I doubt they have 8-10 feet wood or steel spears just laying around.  Sure they could make wooden spears, but that means someone has to go outside the walls, chop down a big tree with a chain saw (hello major noise?) and then go through what I assume is going to be a long process cutting the tree logs into viable spears.

 

2.  Now assume the spears are finally made, where do they go about doing all the spearing?  The ASZ walls aren't chain link so you can't kill them like at the prison.  Also, it's not like the ASZ has a walkway along the entire length of the wall so they would have to construct more watchtowers or lure the walkers to the main watchtower.  The latter leads to the next issue.

 

3.  Once the spearing begins, the dead walkers would start piling up so the options are as follows:

 

          (i) the live walkers will likely either be blocked by the dead walkers which defeats the purpose of said spearing as the spears are not likely extendable;

          (ii) the live walkers start trodding on the piled up dead walkers and we have a World War Z situation where the eventually climb over the wall; or

          (iii) someone has to clear the dead walker bodies to avoid a pile up after the live walkers are lured to another spot near the ASZ (I am sure everyone will be lining for this very dangerous task).

 

4.  Spearing walkers from the top of a 10 feet+ watchtower doesn't exactly seem like the safest job in the world.  How long until a spear gets stuck in a walker skull and you lose it or the spearer gets pulled over the wall?

To address #1 and #4, I will quote myself: "I hope the next time we see Alexandria in daylight, somebody's taken down a flagpole, sharpened it and is using it - while wearing a safety harness - to spear walkers in the head."

 

As for #2, start with where Rick and Ron were.

As for #3 I figured there'd be some climbing on top of walkers, but - I haven't see World War Z - they wouldn't be making a cheerleading pyramid - I don't think the pile would stay stable enough to get to the top of the fence.

 

The goal would be to thin the herd, not kill all of them.

Edited November 10, 2015 by lulee

[Mu Shu]

I disagree. A psychiatrist IS a medical doctor and she has the same training and rotations as a resident intern like all MDs do. Once they specialize, that is where you start to work specifically in your area, but some choose their speciality after their rotations. I had to deal with some of the most inept residents in respect to psychological processes. They frankly did not care about psychiatric and could wait to leave the unit. They would argue with us about proper detox protocol when we had a patient in obvious distress or DTs. It was always a fight and they knew shit about addictions. It always seemed like they wanted to punish the patients with addictions.

Psychiatrists also can write scripts, so they will have a much higher level of understanding of those processes and drug interactions because they receive training in those areas. I cannot imagine anyone goes through all that to be an MD and not retain some of it, or at least an ability to know how or what to research to find out. When they work their ED rotation, they will be dealing with emergencies. The nurses do not necessarily stitch up gunshot wounds or deep cuts. The residents do. If they had made her character a psychologist, then sure, two different worlds, both docs (MD vs. PHD or PsyD). Different training. If they had made her a nurse or an EMT, I could better accept that her training was not enough and/or she opted not to go to med school because she could not handle it. I have a friend who just got through med school a few years ago and is in rotation for neurosurgeon, To get through med school the person has received a ton of training. It is rigorous. Denise should be able to handle some aspects of helping people and if she thinks they are too far gone, she should say so and work to make their passing as comfortable as possible. I hate how they are making her so weak and neurotic. She is an MD and a psychiatrist, come on! I have worked with psych patients in emergent situations. I know that my training would kick right back in if i were in a similar situation.

Debi Thomas is/was an Orthopedic surgeon, but now she lives in a trailer and has bed bugs. I'd like to think Debi would come around if there was a ZA, but some people do go through the whole nine and fail. But dr Zie does suck and I await her eventual demise.

[Rosiejuliemom]

I think Carl has enough hair the hat knows there is no room anymore so it's moved on in search of another host.

 

 

Judith will inherit the hat. Mark my words.

 

The spear idea gets bandied alot on forums as an effective means to thin the walker herd crowding outside the ASZ.

    

    It could possibly work, but I see several issues with it that would have to be overcome before it can be considered a serious idea:

    

    1.  Where would you get the materials for the long spears?  I doubt they have 8-10 feet wood or steel spears just laying around.  Sure they could make wooden spears, but that means someone has to go outside the walls, chop down a big tree with a chain saw (hello major noise?) and then go through what I assume is going to be a long process cutting the tree logs into viable spears.

    

    2.  Now assume the spears are finally made, where do they go about doing all the spearing?  The ASZ walls aren't chain link so you can't kill them like at the prison.  Also, it's not like the ASZ has a walkway along the entire length of the wall so they would have to construct more watchtowers or lure the walkers to the main watchtower.  The latter leads to the next issue.

    

    3.  Once the spearing begins, the dead walkers would start piling up so the options are as follows:

    

              (i) the live walkers will likely either be blocked by the dead walkers which defeats the purpose of said spearing as the spears are not likely extendable;

              (ii) the live walkers start trodding on the piled up dead walkers and we have a World War Z situation where the eventually climb over the wall; or

              (iii) someone has to clear the dead walker bodies to avoid a pile up after the live walkers are lured to another spot near the ASZ (I am sure everyone will be lining for this very dangerous task).

    

    4.  Spearing walkers from the top of a 10 feet+ watchtower doesn't exactly seem like the safest job in the world.  How long until a spear gets stuck in a walker skull and you lose it or the spearer gets pulled over the wall?

 

 

I wonder how far ASZ is from the coast? They might be able to scavenge up a few spearguns with reels attached. Possibly shave the barbs off if necessary. That should make thinning the herd easier and less dangerous. Especially if a safety harness is used.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Rosiejuliemom

[Janimo]

Other than Jessie and her kids, Aaron/Eric, the doctor, and shot in the leg guy, I think the Alexandrians can die now.

 

I'd like Tobin, Francine (is she's still alive-I'm not sure about that) and Olivia to survive as well.

[magemaud]

Since less than three years have elapsed since the ZA began but in real life Chandler Riggs has aged six years, maybe the only solution to explain his amazing growth spurt is to either re-cast Carl or kill him off, neither of which would be popular options. 

 

And earlier when I said that Enid was "fun" to hang out with, that was not really the right word. I meant that she was mysterious and adventurous and probably enjoyed being treated like "one of the guys". 

[peach]

And earlier when I said that Enid was "fun" to hang out with, that was not really the right word. I meant that she was mysterious and adventurous and probably enjoyed being treated like "one of the guys". 

 

They said she didn't speak for weeks, so they probably thought she was the perfect girl.

The recap was hilarious.  The Latin translation had me doubled over.

http://previously.tv/the-walking-dead/ninety-nine-problems-and-the-dead-are-one-thousand/

[van]

Carol and Michonne don't need no man!

No, but seriously, if they wanted to pair them up with each other, I wouldn't object. Carolonne? Michol? They'd be the badassmost couple ever. And they've had about as much interaction as Rick and Jessie, so it would be just as earned.

 

As much as I love these two individually, as a couple, I think Svengali Carol is too crazy even for a katana-wielding, former zombie-pet owner, gun-clubbing Michonne ;D  

 

This show tactic of separating the CDB, focusing on mini-adventures and us anticipating a dramatic reunion of sorts in the end feel like a deja vu of last season. Hope they're not going for that again. 

 

And as the protector of the camp's armory and pantry, Olivia should really start learning how to handle those guns and assert some attitude... and actually keep track of her inventory (side-eyeing Spencer).  

[Raven1707]

You and me both!  Evidently, I can handle walkers so rotten you can stick your hand right through their ribcages, Bob watching his own leg being barbecued and eaten in front of him, heads being crushed, disemboweling, Noah's face being ripped apart, decapitation, Rick tearing that Claimer's throat out with his teeth, and a hundred other gory horrors -- but that needle thing made me turn my face away from the tv!

 

This reminds me of John Carpenter's remake of "The Thing" (with Kurt Russell); there are all kinds of horrific "things" in the film -- truly disgusting scenes with vile, alien-looking creatures, but the moment I have to close my eyes for is when they decide to test their own blood as a way to determine who might have been infected, and someone slashes his own thumb with a knife. YIKES!

 

They really didn't even bother showing how Rick escaped the RV?  That's a pretty big thing to just gloss-over, show.

 

 

This really doesn't bother me at all. I figured he'd run -- Rick running is one of my very favorite things, by the way -- and in "Thank You" (Episode 603) we'd had a couple of references to the efficacy of plain old running: Annie (I believe) said something to the effect of "They walk, we run," and she or someone else estimated that, because they'd been running, they were probably 20 or even 30 minutes ahead of the main herd. The problem is that there were apparently two separate waves of walkers heading for Alexandria: (1) the first group, attracted by the sound of that blasted horn, and (2) a second group, trailing, who turned in response to the gunfire at the RV but who were also "aimed" at Alexandria. 

[Timetoread]

I have to agree. I was looking forward to Rick's reaction to Glenn being missing, but we got nothing. I get that Gimple thinks that he is a clever storyteller, but ignoring what your viewers care about in favor of "art" is not smart.

You can get away with it when you offer something better. This was not the case here.

[BrokenRemote]

Me too. He was the moral center of the group (after the farm and he wised-up). Father Pee Pants cannot fill this role. I love Carl too. I would really like more about Michonne's backstory too.

Regarding the Deanna actress, to me it looks like she has had plastic surgery and the end effect is not so great. Her face is just...odd. Not old necessarily, just where parts are smooth or not, just odd. It doesn't look like normal aging. I guess I would really have to look at a still frame again. I think that she looks much older than 62. Was she a smoker, into tanning, heavy drinker? The lines and aging on her face are unusual in their placement.

One last nit-pick, maybe it is where I am from, but what Maggie and Aaron were walking through, that's a storm drain, not a sewer. Modern sewers do not just empty out into open spaces or waterways. We stopped doing that in the US sometime in the 1900s when we figured out that not processing our waste causes pandemics of sickness. Modern sewers are contained and generally do not have these huge openings (think of the smell!!!). The stuff is contained and carted away to treatment centers. Storm drain is what it is. Now, if this were a really old place, I could maybe buy that it was some old sewer. This is Alexandria, outside of DC. Not happening. Maybe they use the word sewer and storm-drain as the same? Where I am from, they are different.

Where I'm from we call them "storm sewers".

[peach]

I just want to say how much I enjoy this board and so many of y'all's smart and funny posts. I try to keep up reading them on my phone, but only comment from my computer, so a lot of times I forget who I was going to quote or like later.  I pretty much "like" it all, even if I disagree with anything.  :)

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, or not, but when Rick said that "Glenn and Nicholas are going to come back, walking through that entrance" - you are aware that could mean that when the wall(s) fall, 'Glenn' is going to walk in as a walker, right?  I could be wrong - happens all the time - but I think that was a moon-sized anvil, personally.

 

Honestly, when they had Maggie speechifying about not being with Glenn when he went out, so not knowing what's happened to him, not being able to see him - I really expected walker!Glenn to be one of the walkers who piled up on the sewer exit while they were standing there.

 

 

And its been brought up before, but Aaron blaming himself for Glenn is just dumb.  Taking the blame for the Wolves attack, ok, it was mostly his fault.  But he didn't come up with Rick's plan, or push people to go along with it. 

Edited November 13, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[riverheightsnancy]

Where I'm from we call them "storm sewers".

 Yeah, I think that it must be a regional thing. 

[GoldenHera]

Well, a brush with death can have this odd effect of causing one to feel the immediate need to affirm life, and by affirm life I mean screw your brains out. As far as Rick goes it makes no sense that he didn't check Judith or bathe but in real life it is common enough. As these folks are so surrounded by death and dying I would assume there would be far more sexy times happening than we see by far. I know I would at every opportunity, because why not? At least I got a good dream out of this  :) and my dream version of Andrew Lincoln was fine.

 

Not to belabor a point but, that's not the Rick Grimes TWD audience has been shown the last six seasons. The scene could have been a lot more organic if, say, Rick decided everyone should stay in a central location until they figured out a strategy to thin the herd. They would have all been under one roof, and Rick and Jessie could have had their moment while both were on the lookout. With walkers at the door and a strange group of murderous nomads lurking, the actions we saw Rick take make no sense to the character we have been shown. 

 

I agree and disagree with the lack of relationships on the show. On the one hand, yes it's the end of the world, why wouldn't more people just say 'to hell with it all,' and screw any and every willing partner. On the other, I know when I'm stressed, sex is the last thing on my mind. After getting through the tough shit, absolutely! But CDB are in a feedback loop of stress, threats to life and limb and starvation. I'm not surprised at all with the lack of ~sexitimes~ 

 

Oh Maggie, I know eventually humanity needs to procreate but now? She said before that she wasn't scared to have a baby. I wonder if that has changed now that she is actually with child. 

[Madding crowd]

I agree the episode was oddly boring, and with Glenn's fate hanging over the show, we won't be satisfied with any episode until we know. I actually thought Maggie's wiping the name off the board was more indication Glenn is dead because the show does like it's ironic and poignant moments. I'm OK with her being pregnant. The world has to go on and people will need to repopulate at some point.

 

Honestly, I really don't want to see endless episodes of Rick giving speeches about "this is how it is now". Yes, and no. Everyone needs to learn how to fight and danger could be anywhere. However, there are also pockets of safety, even if the safety is only for a year or so. And Rick and Co's arrival pretty much disturbs much of that safety. The ASZ people have had much more safety as a group than CDB, even counting in the people they lost. 

 

I really hate the constant adding of characters too. I have no particular interest in Denise and think the romance with Tara came out of nowhere. We are barely seeing much of the main cast, and barely seeing even the newer members of the secondary class (FPP, Abraham and Co). Lost used to be my all time favorite show until this came along, but they suffered from the same thing. Constantly bringing in new characters with no options but to either kill off older characters or rarely show them.

 

I want to see more of Rick just being a human being too. This super hero Rick who is constantly running around make speeches and looking like a war zone gets old for me. I guess I don't mind him with Jessie, but the actress isn't very compelling to me. We are not seeing anything of Judith and not much of Carl either. To whoever said they think Carl looks like AL: I always thought Carl looked a lot like Lori and not like Rick at all. It's funny how we all see things differently.

[phoenix780]

So don't shoot me, but I thought this what everyone has missed with this show and was clamoring for with FTWD.  And looking at it that way, I didn't hate the episode.

That's what I kept thinking- this episode was mostly what I thought FTWD should be.  Only on a smaller scale.

 

I'm not sure whether that makes me enjoy it, though.  I think I can do without more pause-and-lecture scenes, the one with Jessie after offing a walker was my limit.  I'm also over the effect they used with Deanna and that one guy who was with Glenn when he maybe died (he's totally coming back a walker, like Sophia back in the day- or he'll just appear like Rick).  I'm also not sure how I feel about understanding the characters' feelings about the unknown by actually having an entire episode without checking in on certain people.  

 

And, while I'm not finding the B Team characters all that interesting, I can sort of understand needing to build them up to A Team status by focusing on their responses to things.  I just wish I knew names, or there was more consistency, and I need a check-in to see everyone and get a status update.  For example, where's the guy with the dreads?  Didn't...the guy that goes scouting have a boyfriend?  Is boyfriend alive?  It's not Game of Thrones hard to follow, but I could do with some clarity through the show itself.

[Mars7]

http://www.eonline.com/news/711792/the-walking-dead-renewed-for-season-7-because-no-duh

 

 

Thank you.  

[CletusMusashi]

And let's add Carol's character.  Pookie is out there in the night, fighting against the odds to make it home...and she gives her watch duty to fucking Spencer.

 

ETA:  This could be made acceptable if this is because she and Carl have already gone over or under the wall to go rescue everyone and bring them back.

Carol's a little tired right now. Who do you think had to kill all those zombies that Rick was trapped by?

I'd rather they have Sasha reading books and becoming the village "doctor" than seeing this woman.

Or Carol. 

"Hi, I heard you're giving free flu shots."

"Do you have any flu symptoms?"

"Well, yeah, maybe..."

BANG!

Edited November 10, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[AwesomO4000]

And let's add Carol's character.  Pookie is out there in the night, fighting against the odds to make it home...and she gives her watch duty to fucking Spencer.

 

ETA:  This could be made acceptable if this is because she and Carl have already gone over or under the wall to go rescue everyone and bring them back.

 

In which case the choice of Spencer on guard is a good one, because he'd be less likely to see them sneaking out.

 

And I think it's odd for Carl not to be getting restless and worried here. I'm ready for Carl to be questioning dad's apparent "nesting" attitude again like he did at the jail, because to me Rick's whole "if we're quiet and don't attract any more zombies we should be safe here until the people out there - who may or may not be alive and/or functional - can come back with their vehicles and save us by leading these zombies away" seems even less likely to be a viable plan than Rick's "let's just farm and all will be well" plan at the jail. And we all remember how well that went. And I get that Carl had to pull back from his attitude that lead to shooting that kid  - though considering the reality of their world, I didn't exactly disagree with him there, either - but his little slip with that Wolf and almost falling for his "please don't shoot me" crap should've woken him up to the fact that his previous survival instincts likely have kept him and his baby sister alive. And though I appreciated his at least somewhat more maturity with Ron, somehow I think Carl is being way too laid back and should be much more vocal about "shouldn't we be doing something here, Dad?" In other words: where is badass Carl? This passive one is sort of creeping me out.

 

And I agree with you (and the other previous poster who used a *small voice*) - I like Carl's hair.* At least that still says "It's the friggin zombie apocalypse, and the pickins are slim. I can wear my hair any damn way I want to." You go, Carl.

 

* What can I say. I was in high school and college in the 80s, and I love hair band music. I think longer hair on guys looks just fine.

 

And, while I'm not finding the B Team characters all that interesting, I can sort of understand needing to build them up to A Team status by focusing on their responses to things.  I just wish I knew names, or there was more consistency, and I need a check-in to see everyone and get a status update.  For example, where's the guy with the dreads?  Didn't...the guy that goes scouting have a boyfriend?  Is boyfriend alive?  It's not Game of Thrones hard to follow, but I could do with some clarity through the show itself.

 

Yup, Aaron has a boyfriend, Eric, and he's still alive. Though I wish I knew the status of his ankle injury, so I'll have an idea of his survival prospects when those zombies break into Alexandria.

[Rosiejuliemom]

I honestly think the last couple episodes will come off much better when one can watch them back to back. I'm enjoying the storylines so far, but the pacing is simultaneously too fast and too slow. My opinion of 4B vastly improved when I Netflixed it all at once, hopefully the last two episodes will be the same way.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Yup, Aaron has a boyfriend, Eric, and he's still alive. Though I wish I knew the status of his ankle injury, so I'll have an idea of his survival prospects when those zombies break into Alexandria.

 

Rick seriously gouged his hand on a walker-gore soaked machete blade a couple hours ago and barely acknowledges it back in Alexandria, a few hours later.  Eric's had 2-2.5 weeks to rest up with that ankle;  he'll be fine! ............  which of course means that when we have to watch him make an escape, he'll be hobbling worse than a person with two broken ankles and messed up knees, to boot.

I honestly think the last couple episodes will come off much better when one can watch them back to back. I'm enjoying the storylines so far, but the pacing is simultaneously too fast and too slow. My opinion of 4B vastly improved when I Netflixed it all at once, hopefully the last two episodes will be the same way.

 

I think on rewatch, I might seriously consider watching "Morgan's ep" separately from the rest of the season.  Other than the last minute, it had absolutely 100% nothing to do with the 'current' storyline (other than 'explain' why Morgan is such a pacifist nowadays).

Edited November 10, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Rosiejuliemom]

Rick seriously gouged his hand on a walker-gore soaked machete blade a couple hours ago and barely acknowledges it back in Alexandria, a few hours later.  Eric's had 2-2.5 weeks to rest up with that ankle;  he'll be fine! ............  which of course means that when we have to watch him make an escape, he'll be hobbling worse than a person with two broken ankles and messed up knees, to boot.

 

I think on rewatch, I might seriously consider watching "Morgan's ep" separately from the rest of the season.  Other than the last minute, it had absolutely 100% nothing to do with the 'current' storyline (other than 'explain' why Morgan is such a pacifist nowadays).

 

I'm hoping that Aaron (and Maggie and Glenn) lead Eric and Judith to the storm sewer when the shit inevitably hits the fan in Alexandria. It may not be the most comfortable place, but it seemed relatively safe. Maybe send Carl down as well, so that he can kill any squishy walkers.

 

I had that same thought for Morgan's bottle ep! I'll probably watch that at the beginning, then do the rest in order. Seems like it might flow better (except for the end scene with Unfairest Wolf).

[CletusMusashi]

So the town is kind of fucked right now for two reasons. One is that half of the zombie parade are outside the walls, instead of in the big hole that they were deliberately led out of, as quickly and loudly as possible. And the other is that while most of the big guns were out of town, advertising the fact that they were out of town by having a noisy-ass parade, the Wolves attacked.

If I didn't know better, I would say that both of those problems had a common source.

But, good news: Rick has a backup plan.

"Zombie parade!"

The other one failed because they heard a loud noise. A loud noise that was deliberately made by the Wolves, in order to ruin the parade. But I guess maybe the Wolves promised not to interfere this time?

Kill the damn zombies where they are, and until they're thinned down a bit, at least you know that the Wolves probably won't be visiting. Unless they found a can of Brillip's Zombie Repellent Bat Spray.

Edited November 10, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[Nashville]

Yes, everyone should be taught how to use a bow and arrow and a staff by Morgan. When the hoard is dead, They could recollect the arrows like Darryl does all the time. Even though all of the shopping centers are supposedly all cleaned out. Aren't these people near any larger stores? Walmart, & sporting good stores would have hundreds of bows and hunting equipment. I would guess that many places haven't even been broken into yet. I remember when they went into that One Stop store (where Bob caused the shelf to collapse). That store had multitudes of stuff just sitting there. Tons of stuff. A Costco, Sams Club or BJs would have so much stuff. Any larger area might have multiple stores like this. They could have outfitted the prison with an entire ensemble from Ikea! 

 

Not to mention - the original Americans did fine without WalMart for a couple of millennia or so.  ;)

[poppytheastronaut]

If Rick Grimes came to my house for some ass my panties would be on the floor so fast it would make him uncomfortable.

Word. Rick in Alpha male mode (as he has been since mid-last season) = sexy as hell. More than makes up for the lack of beard. 

 

Otherwise I thought that this episode was a bit meh. I appreciate that there's a large ensemble cast, but this seemingly increasing habit of splitting off a few characters' storylines for individual episodes isn't really working for me. I find that this sort of fragmentation results in an overall loss of momentum and in my emotional investment in the story. 

[Miral9]

Also the number of scenes with one Alexanduan telling another Alexandrian that if they'd just listened to a member of CDB this wouldn't have happen and CBD is awesome sauce was hysterical to me.

LOL. It was a little OTT heavy-handed with the lecture-y speechifying, wasn't it? Reminded me of a cartoon I'd seen as a kid,

"If Woody had gone straight to the police, this would never have happened."

"If we'd only had this horny nut job in charge from the beginning, this would never have happened."

[Guest]

Otherwise I thought that this episode was a bit meh. I appreciate that there's a large ensemble cast, but this seemingly increasing habit of splitting off a few characters' storylines for individual episodes isn't really working for me. I find that this sort of fragmentation results in an overall loss of momentum and in my emotional investment in the story. 

 

Given AMC's reputation to be cheap with its highest rated show, I've been wondering lately  if the main cast has some kind of weird contracts with different pay levels:

- Just in the credits

- Just in the background for under X minutes but no lines

-Just in the background with voice over and no visibly spoken lines

-Actually have a storyline

 

Because its either got to be an artistic trend that every show will eventually get over (because all of them are doing it) or its saving them on production costs.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the show runners sold the network on the idea of no character is safe, we can swap out the high salaries and nothing will change with the ratings and got their budget set on that assumption.  Then balked at doing anything like that when the time came.  Because the show is chickenshit about killing fan favorites (and I still don't think Glenn is dead).

 

PS.  I'm glad they are afraid to kill off the mains, but I do think the are afraid to do it despite protestations to the contrary by every writer/producer.

Edited November 10, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[BetyBee]

Spencer is very handsome - tall, dark and handsome.  Like Deanna, I was proud of him when he made the speech at the pantry.  Why did it have to be BS?  Why did he have to be a hypocrite?  I thought we'd have some character growth and since he expressed interest in Sasha at the party, possibly a future romance.  But instead we have further evidence that the ASZhats are nearly 100% useless.  It's really depressing.  I can see that some of these people like Dr. Denise and hopefully Heath and definitely Aaron are going to join CDB and be regulars, at least for awhile.  I kind of wish Spence had been one of them.  He is easy on the eyes.  

[GodsBeloved]

If I really think about it, it kind of tickles me to imagine Rick & Michonne's small talk.  "Dude, remember that time you bit that guy's throat out?"  "Right?  How about when you totally stuck your sword right through the Governor's head?"

How about the time you turned me over to the Governor and it was racist Merle who decided to cut me loose? Racist Merle called you out and told you just how diabolical the Governor was. B!tch did you ever part your lips to apologize for that bit of f*ckery?

Edited November 10, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[JackONeill]

"I have to agree. I was looking forward to Rick's reaction to Glenn being missing, but we got nothing. I get that Gimple thinks that he is a clever storyteller, but ignoring what your viewers care about in favor of "art" is not smart." [The quote thingy didn't work. This was said by Simone. I think. Sorry.]

 

Another annoying thing and something that is out of character for our, well, characters: The episode closed at night. (What time, who knows? Time has never been carefully displayed on this show. Witness Carl's true age versus how he looks.) And here's the thing: Where the hell are Daryl and the others?  They were supposed to go twenty miles, then, I would assume haul ass back. No one said anything about stopping off at the Lincoln Memorial for a little sightseeing.

   

So, point is, why isn't Rick worried about his best buddy, Daryl, and his other best buddy, Glenn? (And yes, he'd normally be worried about the others, too)

    

Having him get some quif seems, I don't know, SHALLOW.

    

Whoever first said it about, I give you credit (except I can't remember who you are); This was a different Rick in this episode. I noticed it as I was watching it.

    

And as someone else said, why weren't people making a "fall-back" position in case things don't go well. And, really, CDB should know by now NOTHING ever goes well. I'd find a house or someplace to fortify. To me it's just common sense. Everybody, even Enid (who's what, 15-16?) knows Alexandria isn't totally safe.

Edited November 10, 2015 by JackONeill

[mandolin]

How about the time you turned me over to the Governor and it was racist Merle who decided to cut me loose? Bitch did you ever apologize for that bit of f*ckery?

To be fair, Rick thought about turning her over, but decided against it. Merle took her because he knew Rick wouldn't. Later she tells Rick she knows he had to consider the Governor's offer. Rick says, "I'm sorry; I came real close." Then she thanks him for taking her in that day at the fence. 

[JackONeill]

Come to Atlanta, it's the land of opportunity. (And yes, I know CDB took 2 year's - show time - to get out of Atlanta.)

 

But we have Targets and WalMarts and Costcos on every street corner. And sporting goods stores and grocery stores. In one two-block zone, we have a Whole Foods, a Fresh Food, a Sprouts and a Trader Joes (all grocery stores for those who aren't familiar with the names).

 

Living in the suburbs (i.e., the woods where CDB always seems to find themselves) may have its merits. But I think knowing there's "stuff" literally right the corner is nice.(Yeah, sure, there are more Walkers, but there's got to be a way to cope with them. Somehow.)

[peach]

How about the time you turned me over to the Governor and it was racist Merle who decided to cut me loose? Bitch did you ever apologize for that bit of f*ckery?

 

Actually, he did apologize.  And he also didn't turn her over to the Governor.  He changed his mind during that scene where Herschel, Maggie, and Beth were praying for him to "see the light."

[ghoulina]

And poor Deanna. Yeah, I was shouting at the TV, too - "The head! The head! THE HEAD!" But I also realized that she's a tiny woman, and that was a pretty tall zombie. The lady needed a step-ladder to get a good shot at the brain.

 

I thought of that too, at first. But even when she got him on the ground, she still wasn't going for the head! 

[maystone]

I thought of that too, at first. But even when she got him on the ground, she still wasn't going for the head! 

 

Ha! There is that :) IIRC when Jessie went all scissors-happy on the wolfette, she started out hacking away at her torso, then zeroed in on her head. ZA aside, I think most of us have an innate prohibition against mutilating a face. I have a number of friends and colleagues who've had to take Gross Anatomy, and each has said that dealing with the cadaver's face was the squickiest part. But yeah - go for the head next time, Deanna.

[Boilergal]

I disagree. A psychiatrist IS a medical doctor and she has the same training and rotations as a resident intern like all MDs do.

 

When we first met Denise she said she couldn't handle the stress of being a MD and specialized in Psychiatry - so she does have all the knowledge/training that is needed to be a doctor - she is just not able to deal with the stress of it and is not comfortable in that role.  Especially now in the ZA where the people she has to help are friends...that's an added level of pressure.  If she had high levels of stress in helping strangers in school her stress level now must be off the charts...and i completely get her wanting to escape and just read books.

[Miral9]

What I care about:  What will Michonne tell Maggie, and how will she react???  How will Rick react to the compound being overrun by psychotic murderers???  How will remaining CDB react to Glenn, Daryl, Sasha and Abraham going missing???  After a 90 minute episode devoted to Morgan's life, what will he do with an injured wolf now that the town is in jeopardy (which he apparently never told them after Rick sent him back).

 

What Show cares about: 

How will Deanna react?

How will Spencer react?

How will Deanna react to Spencer's reaction? 

 

Maggie's upset.  She's on a mission.  What do Michonne, Rick, Rosita, and Carol think?  Who knows.  She's with Aaron.  (This is forgivable because Aaron is more CBD than ASZ, and he actually wants to DO something)

 

Oh, no, Rosita's crying?  She  must be reacting to Abe being missing, and...let's talk about how Spencer feels.  Rosita validates Spencer.  (Also, Carol let an incompetent, drunken coward take her watch duty)

 

Hey, Carl gets a scene!  It's about Ron.  Bye, Carl.  Rick tries to bond with Ron and believes Carl is in the house.

 

Hey, it's Tara.  Glenn is her first friend and closest connection to CDB, and she's the "most important person in the world" to Maggie, but let's check on Denise.  Poor Denise!  "I'm stuck with this injured guy who's been risking his life to keep me fed and supplied during the ZA, who got wounded defending my home from a horde of walkers.  Glenn probably died trying to get him back to safety, and now they expect me to take care of him just because I'm a doctor.  Poor meeeee!  I just want to read a book."  Tara comforts Denise while Maggie slogs through a zombie infested sewer below.

 

This show has turned into The Young & The Restless, where they just use legacy characters to prop up new, annoying characters no one cares about.

The glory of winning the Internet is that everyone quotes your post bc you so got it perfect.

At the core of any story are its characters. They are the lifeblood of the story. It's pretty clear in comedy that the true bellyache laughs come from the characters. LOLs from manufactured hi-jinx? Or LOLs from Larry David's neuroses? (I know it's subjective but I've taken enough writing classes to feel validated in asserting it as fact.)

Anyway, these writers need to get it together. They created *these* characters and there is a story to be told about how *these* characters navigate the ZA. Having scenes in mind that you want to have happen and then bending and folding and shoehorning the characters to accommodate those scenes - losing sight of the established characterizations- does not work.

Take "True Blood." I tolerated that nonsense for years. Finally they made Sam Merlotte a homicidal maniac. I didn't even care for Sam as a character, but it finally hit me that the writers didn't give a sh*t about the characters, or story continuity, and they underestimated viewers intelligence/ability for remembering details. That rankled. Fonzie, get those bathing trunks on.

[ghoulina]

Yes, why are they not doing the head pokey thing with the zombies like they did at the prison?  Do they not have enough pointy things?    Skewering brains is pretty quiet work and wouldn't draw much attention from the horde.  C'mon, there are plenty of ASZ'ers with nothing to do.  Get them used to the gore and walker creepiness by poking heads with a stick!

 

They could even build some long pokey things; stand up on the top of the wall and get them from up there. How about finding large rocks or heavy objects (I volunteer FPP) and dropping them on heads. Something. Anything. 

[nodorothyparker]

Another annoying thing and something that is out of character for our, well, characters: The episode closed at night. (What time, who knows? Time has never been carefully displayed on this show. Witness Carl's true age versus how he looks.) And here's the thing: Where the hell are Daryl and the others?  They were supposed to go twenty miles, then, I would assume haul ass back. No one said anything about stopping off at the Lincoln Memorial for a little sightseeing.

   

So, point is, why isn't Rick worried about his best buddy, Daryl, and his other best buddy, Glenn? (And yes, he'd normally be worried about the others, too)

    

...

    

And as someone else said, why weren't people making a "fall-back" position in case things don't go well. And, really, CDB should know by now NOTHING ever goes well. I'd find a house or someplace to fortify. To me it's just common sense. Everybody, even Enid (who's what, 15-16?) knows Alexandria isn't totally safe.

 

I think it was before Rick put the moves on Jessie in the open garage of seduction that he remarked that he was surprised/concerned that Daryl and Co. weren't back yet.  The Rick we've been watching for five seasons would have taken that moment to realize something else bad had very probably happened and be trying to figure out what their Plan B was.  But that still requires us to believe that the members of CBD who have seen enough things go sideways were content to sit around passively and wait to be rescued in the first place.

 

That's why until the show shows me otherwise I choose to believe that's what Michonne and Carol are doing offcamera while all the extras in the cast are emoting.  Because they're both smart enough to have realized they did need a fallback if the walls come down and the cavalry doesn't arrive.

[Miral9]

And I think they're keeping Carl's hair in that sloppy pageboy 'do is because if they cut it, it will be SCREAMINGLY apparent he's older than he's supposed to be.

As for why poor Judith still doesn't walk, I've fanwanked giving her the slow-growth condition Carrie & Cory had in "Flowers in the Attic." I mean her dad was feeding her mushed acorns. While on the road, they barely had water, much less milk or baby formula.

[TattleTeeny]

I must not be too picky with WD episodes; I was fine with last week's and this one too. I laughed at Rick loudly telling everyone to keep quiet...though I wish we saw Rick's escape (though I'm assuming it was just that--he left the RV and ran), and people telling Rick what happened with the Wolves. With this show's penchant for flashbacks, maybe we will, and there's going to have to be, IMO, an addressing of the Carol vs. Morgan techniques, I think.

Also, I feel like we were supposed to suspect Maggie was pregnant; there have been pretty obvious clues for weeks now.

Edited November 10, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[JackONeill]

 

That's why until the show shows me otherwise I choose to believe that's what Michonne and Carol are doing offcamera while all the extras in the cast are emoting.  Because they're both smart enough to have realized they did need a fallback if the walls come down and the cavalry doesn't arrive.

 

That could be happening. It would certainly make sense.

 

You know, I did see Tobin (the big guy who had been in charge of construction).  All it would have taken is one line said by Rick to someone, maybe Rosita: "Did Tobin get some men to help you and Carol build a "safe-house?"  That's it. One line (among all the millions of lines straight from the Days of Our Lives).

 

And thanks for reminding me about Rick's line about Daryl. But to that, I would have added, "Tomorrow we need to come up with a plan." Again, simple. BUt these SIMPLE sentences are true to our characters. It shows they're thinking (about something other than . . . ahem, Jessie).

 

Once again, as someone (or many people) have noted or commented upon: the writers have to like the characters. And maybe they don't Maybe this show is nothing more than a way to show how gorey we can go.

[lulee]

They could even build some long pokey things; stand up on the top of the wall and get them from up there. How about finding large rocks or heavy objects (I volunteer FPP) and dropping them on heads. Something. Anything. 

I like the way you think!  A sort of two birds, one stone.

My first suggestion was flagpole, but bottom line is they have to do something -- waiting for Daryl, Abe, and Sasha to return is waiting too long. Some mop handles could be rigged together. Jessie's owl could be dismantled. Find any leftover building materials. Was there a floor lamp broken by a Wolf? Great -- use that! 

Whatever could be used to stab or crush the walker brains

... and Gabriel could show he's ready to atone for letting his flock die.

Edited November 10, 2015 by lulee

[TattleTeeny]

Felt so awful for Maggie. Lauren did a great job tonight, but here`s hoping she gets to do a damn happy scene in the next few weeks. You know, when Glenn comes back and he is totally fine? I mean, damn this poor woman watched her father get beheaded, her sister killed, and her whole family eaten back at the farm, and now Glenn may or may not be gone too? I know everyone on this show has lost a lot, but her on screen loses are still pretty impressive.

 

Oh my goodness, me too. When this season started, I made a big fuss about "please, please, please give Maggie a break already!" This poor woman! She has had enough! And her slow-motion crying, especially in the Hershel death scene, is so heartbreaking!

 

Just going by the way Maggie seems to have gotten over Glenn & is becoming good friends with the other guy (whose name I can't remember), I would say that Glenn is absolutely still alive & just waiting for Maggie to be extremely pregnant & involved with someone else to return.

 

Wait...huh? Forgive me if I'm not catching the sarcasm--I'm tired and it's all gloomy and rainy this morning--but how is she "over Glenn"? She was about to hurl her pregnant self out into a teeming throng of walkers to find him, dead or alive! And Glenn knows she's pregnant, and Aaron is gay and taken! Again, I apologize profusely if I misread your post!

 

As to the integrity of the wall, I always think of Jackson Galaxy's advice in My Cat From Hell; he says to keep a cat from getting over a fence or whatever, installing a barrier at a 45-degree angle will usually make it impossible for the cat to do so. Of course these people can't do this at the moment, but maybe that would be an option--along with the pointy sticks!

Edited November 10, 2015 by TattleTeeny