S06.E04: Here's Not Here

[AndySmith]

Yes, that point of Tabitha getting out.  Um, how?  Even if she was able to push open the cell door - not that hard to believe - how did she open the cabin door?

 

Maybe she is related to the raptors from Jurassic Park?

 

The other main reason I liked this episode was because of Eastman.  We've seen so many of the evil, awful people who have survived by wreaking havoc on their fellow humans, but we haven't seen too many good people outside of our group

 

I think we've seen just as many fundamentally good people in Alexandria (at the very least, Deanna and Reg), even if they're just as misguided as Eastman.

[henripootel]

Any aiki guys here?  I'm a stick guy from a different art, and not to be too critical but the stuff Morgan and Norm Gunderson are doing here looks a bit odd. Question: is it recognizably aiki stick work?

[maystone]

I liked the episode, and yay for Gimple getting to write that two-character teleplay he probably had rattling around in his brain for a while. Seriously, it must be a nice change from writing the usual multi-character dangerous-situation-of-the-week scenarios that we normally see and love. I thought the acting was spot-on, and it did cast some light on Morgan's doings between "Clear" and his reappearance at the end of S5. All that aside, I'm not taking this ZA version of Jedi master and padawan at face value.

 

The whole "all life is precious" isn't a conversion for either of them; it's a lifeline for their psyches. It's atonement. It's a fantasy built in first Eastman's and then Morgan's tiny bubble of existence in the midst of a world overrun with violence and terror. It hit me when Eastman wouldn't answer Morgan's direct question about what happened to the psychopath who murdered Eastman's family, and he replied something like "I now believe (or maybe I have come to believe) that all life is sacred." Said twice in a row, IIRC. Well, sure - now that you've imprisoned and intentionally starved a man to death. Forty-seven days worth of dying, in fact. You got what you wanted out of it; now is as good a time as any to come up with a plan to ease your conscience and convince yourself you're not a monster, too. And look: into your little Happy Valley stumbles your psychic doppleganger. How great is that?! You get to reinforce the righteousness of your philosophy by virtually reliving your own moral/psychic breakdown and rebuilding through Morgan.

 

I think that all of the posters who have already pointed out that pacifism on steroids only works in a social vacuum are brilliantly perceptive. Eastman never put his faith into practice out in the wider world that we could see. Morgan came to him. Now Morgan is trying to live by a practice that really hadn't been tested in the real society of the ZA. I think his new-found faith is crumbling in the face of that reality. I think that's why he locked the door on the wounded wolf. I believe that Morgan is going to come around. We don't actually know whether or not he was going to tell Carol or Maggie about his prisoner because suddenly Rick is shouting at the gate. Personally, I think he would have told them. I think at heart Morgan is a decent, brave man; I think he's been handicapped by his isolation and again by his time with Eastman, who basically was still fighting his own demons. At least he's now self-aware enough to see that maybe he needs to rethink his peace-at-all-cost stance. I really believe that he's going to find his balance.

[mandolin]

I'm in GA and it was hot as hell. Whether it actually reached 106, the humidity would choke you to death. Not pleasant. at all.

It's 80 here today, but the heat index is 87. Welcome to November. (I'm about 2.5 hours south of where they film.)

 

Back on topic, I think I didn't like this Morgan episode as much as Clear because it was him alone. Not with our other people. If he'd even been shown mumbling about Rick or the walkie talkie or something, it would've connected better for me.

Edited November 2, 2015 by mandolin

[Irishmaple]

It bothered me that in the midst of all that Every Life Is Precious crusade, Morgan let that barely-competent couple continue their (probably doomed) trek through the woods. It drives me insane when people miss those stealthy walkers. Heads on a swivel, people. That couple looked like prime candidates for a cabin in the woods. Why fixate on redeeming a Wolf when he let the benign couple go? I wonder if they ended up at Terminus? Seeing that sign again made me stabby.

[maystone]

Another thing - did anyone else get the impression that at the end of this episode, Morgan just kind of stumbled upon the signs for Terminus? But back in S5 when CDB escaped from Terminus and Rick wrote "No Sanctuary" on the sign, it seemed that Morgan was tracking Rick, didn't it? And Morgan wasn't giving off that "peace, love, and understanding" vibe that he left Eastman's place with, either. He was all geared up in a helmet with a face guard, a mask under that (I think), and a pretty bulky coat. In this ep, he was wearing just a light jacket and carrying his bo-stick.

 

Am I not remembering correctly, or is there a big ol' retcon going on?

[jaigurudeva]

I had to laugh when Eastman said that out of almost 900 inmates he'd interviewed, only one was irredeemably 'evil,' and that apparently every other murderer, abuser, and rapist was just going through some shit, give 'em a break, sheesh. Psychopaths aren't exactly rare, it's estimated that 1 in 100 of the general population and 1 in 4 among inmates are have characteristics of psychopathy or sociopathy (ASPD). Of course it takes the right situational powder keg to bring a psychopath to start harming people (otherwise they just become CEOs, lawyers, and salespeople), and a ZA is certainly the thing that will send someone with such tendencies (and even perfectly empathetic people) down the dark path. However, it is very difficult to completely rehab a psychopath. It's just wired in them.

Not to say that they should all be executed, but that they need serious psychological reprogramming in socially responsible behavior and monitoring outside of release to be sure they stay on the straight and narrow. Reading a book on Zen philosophy isn't going to be enough to reform a psychopath. Apprehending, locking up, and trying to rehab every deranged person that comes to ruthlessly kill you and everyone you love is not feasible in the ZA, when every other thing, zombies, disease, starvation, is trying to kill you, too. And it's ultimately what brings Eastman his demise! Sorry, Morgan, but it's a dog eat dog (and zombie eat human, and human eat human, and human and zombie eat turtles, dogs, horses, goats...Tabithaaaa :() world now. Kill or be killed. (But stop killing the animals, show! For all his ridiculousness, I would be down to have falafel with Eastman, as a vegan myself.)

[ParadoxLost]

Someone want to explain to me the deal with the gigantic 'A's Morgan was putting on trees that weren't part of the word 'clear'.  And there was one marked on a house in Alexandria after the wolves attacked, and I presume done by Morgan, a couple episodes back.

 

I thought the 'A' in that episode was just for the train car they were put in at Terminus.  Is there supposed to be a Terminus, Wolves, and Morgan link/past history?

[riverheightsnancy]

Any aiki guys here?  I'm a stick guy from a different art, and not to be too critical but the stuff Morgan and Norm Gunderson are doing here looks a bit odd. Question: is it recognizably aiki stick work?

Some of the moves (strikes) are exactly the same in taekwondo bostaff and some of the leg work wasn't. Hand placement was a little wonky. There are definitely moves in taekwondo staff work that could really hurt walkers, a lot of the stabbing type moves and sweeping moves to take someone off their feet. Some of Morgan's form was pretty decent with the staff, especially if he only learned a few days or weeks ago (as the character). It would be enough to protect a person. Totally better than nothing and it keeps distance between you and the opponent. If they have a gun, all bets are off though.   He should be teaching everyone in Alexandria how to use a staff. It is the reason that it is preferred to use a leg, or staff, over a punch or arm, you keep a greater distance between you and an opponent. 

[Samx]

I enjoyed the acting but got tired dodging all of Gimple's anvils. Like many, I thought we were in for a plot twist that Eastman was really CDW (which might have been the better story). The CDW/Eastman story felt like a Red John redux and made me think Gimple half-assed a lot of this story because he needed to fill the longer running time (which I assume was scheduled by AMC ahead of time, as crackpotted by me below).

I think this Very Special Episode of AMC Presents The Walking Dead was 90 minutes solely so that AMC could run its trailers for Into the Badlands and Preacher while having TWD audience's attention. Knowing that this week's episode had to be a longer one for AMC's purposes, it's possible Gimple decided this particular episode would be it since it's too early in the season to advance the main plot for 64 minutes, and the Glenn/Rick cliffhanger would ensure everyone tuned in this week. As much as the audience was excited for Morgan prior to S6, we all know his backstory isn't what warranted the 90 minutes.

 

ETA: For those who didn't watch The Mentalist, Red John was a serial killer and show's Big Bad whose history w/ the main protagonist parallels the Eastman/CDW story.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Samx

[Blinkoshuman]

 

Am I not remembering correctly, or is there a big ol' retcon going on?

Re:  Morgan finding the Terminus signs.

I thought about that, too.  I figure that Morgan is trailing Rick & Co. far enough behind that CDB is already at Terminus doing their thing when Morgan sees the signs.  By the time he gets closer, Terminus is gone and so is CDB..."no sanctuary" on the signs...onward toward Father Gabriel's church...and so on and so on.

 

 

He was all geared up in a helmet with a face guard, a mask under that (I think), and a pretty bulky coat. In this ep, he was wearing just a light jacket and carrying his bo-stick.

This is true, and I can't figure out why unless he has all of what you mentioned packed in his bag?  They certainly got that mask in enough shots to remind us he wore it later on...

Edited November 2, 2015 by Blinkoshuman

[rab01]

Someone want to explain to me the deal with the gigantic 'A's Morgan was putting on trees that weren't part of the word 'clear'.  And there was one marked on a house in Alexandria after the wolves attacked, and I presume done by Morgan, a couple episodes back.

 

I thought the 'A' in that episode was just for the train car they were put in at Terminus.  Is there supposed to be a Terminus, Wolves, and Morgan link/past history?

The "A" on the Alexandria house was stamped there by Jessie's son. I thought Morgan's "A" on the tree spelled out a word when combined with other trees but I wasn't watching closely enough.

[bmoore4026]

Rick killed that guy who escaped from Sasha. The guy was cuffed and running away. Rick literally ran him down, got out of the car and killed him. If that wasn't cold blooded murder I'm not sure what is.

 

Oh, I forgot about that one.  So much happens over seasons, it's easy to forget the sociopathy.

[RainOnToosdays]

The young couple we saw briefly last night - the guy on crutches and girl giving Morgan a can of soup and a bullet - are they the "fruit hippies" Rick and Carol ran into? I vaguely remember one of them having something wrong with their leg. 

[TVFan17]

Maybe she is related to the raptors from Jurassic Park?

 

 

I think we've seen just as many fundamentally good people in Alexandria (at the very least, Deanna and Reg), even if they're just as misguided as Eastman.

 

I suppose so, though I don't feel that we have have learned enough about some of the Alexandrians' lives pre-ZA to really get a sense of how good or not good they are.  I am still skeptical about a few of them.   And, from what we have learned thus far, honestly,  for whatever reason, I just don't care about the majority of the Alexandrians.  I don't know why.   I guess I just don't find them that interesting.   Their possible 'goodness' has been overshadowed and outweighed by all of the 'bad' on the show.

 

I think that Eastman was basically a good, decent, smart and interesting person -- who did a bad thing to a bad person -- and it would have been compelling to follow him through the ZA to see how he fared.   I liked learning about what his life was before the ZA, and seeing how he adjusted to the ZA world, and I liked his scenes with Morgan.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Sherry67

[AndySmith]

Interestingly enough, this episode is airing now where I live, and its just as shitty the second time as it is the first time.

 

Its hard to determine who the bigger idiot is here, Morgan or Eastman. And for the record, Eastman does say he only met 1 truly evil person, the rest (all 899 of them) were just damaged snowflakes who could be redeemed.

 

I suppose so, though I don't feel that we have have learned enough about some of the Alexandrians' lives pre-ZA to really get a sense of how good or not good they are

 

I think for the most part, they're pretty much the same people before as they are now. They haven't been scarred by the ZA.

 

I think that Eastman was basically a good, decent, smart and interesting person

 

Well, from what we learned, he seemed to be a nice guy with issues who got his act together once he discovered akido. And again, I don't see him being all that different from people like Deanna and Reg in terms of being a honorable, decent person. His tragic backstory does maybe make him more interesting, but as they say, mileage varies.

Edited November 2, 2015 by AndySmith

[GodsBeloved]

The young couple we saw briefly last night - the guy on crutches and girl giving Morgan a can of soup and a bullet - are they the "fruit hippies" Rick and Carol ran into? I vaguely remember one of them having something wrong with their leg. 

I think with the fruit hippies, it was the girl with a bad leg. I think she got trampled.

Edited November 2, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[Boofish]

If this does not prove back stories should be told in short burst and flash backs nothing will

[ParadoxLost]

If this does not prove back stories should be told in short burst and flash backs nothing will

 

I thought we learned this lesson with the Governor episodes already. Twice.

[TattleTeeny]

I can't help but feel like Eastman would have changed his mind about refraining from killing, had he been in Alexandria during the Wolves' attack. As should have Morgan, obviously. That was so different from the debate at the farm over that kid they took from the town, man.

[henripootel]

There are definitely moves in taekwondo staff work that could really hurt walkers, a lot of the stabbing type moves and sweeping moves to take someone off their feet.

We don't do foot sweeps in jo but we do have an array of moves that strike to the eyes, very useful for dealing with walkers I'd think.  Plus a jo is much smaller - the staff Morgan uses looks like a tree trunk to me, hate to carry that for miles and miles.  I'd be less concerned with stumblers than Wolves but facing a guy holding a cutting tool while you have a stick - that's a pretty the definition of Jo. 

Edited November 2, 2015 by henripootel

[GreyBunny]

The young couple we saw briefly last night - the guy on crutches and girl giving Morgan a can of soup and a bullet - are they the "fruit hippies" Rick and Carol ran into? I vaguely remember one of them having something wrong with their leg. 

No.  The fruit hippies are long dead.  The girl got eaten by a zombie in the same episode where we met her. Her boyfriend, Sam, was killed at Terminus.  He was the blonde guy who was first to get the baseball bat to the back of the head at the trough.

[JackONeill]

I can't help but feel like Eastman would have changed his mind about refraining from killing, had he been in Alexandria during the Wolves' attack. As should have Morgan, obviously. That was so different from the debate at the farm over that kid they took from the town, man.

I'm aware of the turn the other cheek concept. I'm aware of it; doesn't mean I approve of it. What would have happened had those 3 or 4 Wolves gotten the better of Morgan and had him on the ground with an axe above his head? Or if it had been Eastman (assuming he were there)? Or if the Wolves had an axe over Judith's head?

 

I know there is no way to win this argument. People swear up and down YOU SHALL NOT KILL. But I say there are times when it should be allowed. If someone is trying to kill me or my loved ones and I knock him to the ground 3 or 4 times, but he won't stay down, and he's bound and determined to KILL, than I'm going to kill him. My decision. My call. I gave him a chance. He didn't take it. Is it better that I die, or my loved ones? Eastman killed the man who killed his family. I think Eastman would have seen that same "look" and depravity in the eyes of the Wolves.

Edited November 2, 2015 by JackONeill

[RustbeltWriter]

One thing I found funny about this episode was the way Morgan carried on the Atlanta group's tradition of utterly destroying the way of life for anyone they stumble across. Every single viewer knew Eastman was dead the minute he appeared on screen. Oh sure, he had a nice isolated cabin, power, food, a goat and awesome Aikido skills but that's all worthless once you've run into one of the regular cast members. Just resign yourself to imparting some wisdom or solving a problem before you encounter a death you've managed to avoid for the last couple years.

Edited November 2, 2015 by RustbeltWriter

[Morgan of Hed]

Any aiki guys here?  I'm a stick guy from a different art, and not to be too critical but the stuff Morgan and Norm Gunderson are doing here looks a bit odd. Question: is it recognizably aiki stick work?

I'm primarily a kendo guy with a strong side of judo.  I did a year of aikido, none of what they were doing looked like aiki-jo to me.  Also the reference to an armbar defence to choke on the ground was not something I ever saw in aikido, that would be more along the lines of judo or BJJ.

 

Aiki-jo in most aikido dojo is primarily used to enforce the empty-hand techniques.  This episode made it seem like aikido is all about jo but in my admittedly limited experience that's not the case.

 

Also, like most have said this episode was boring and unnecessary.  I could have written 80% of it just based on what we already knew about Morgan.

[anadyr21]

While the acting in this episode was excellent, I have a major problem with the placement. You've had 3 action-packed episodes, and this episode completely killed the momentum. I understand that after a lot of excitement, you need a breather, however, you also needed some type of closure to the excitement, so that when you get back to the main story, it's a new sub-story. I was hoping there would be at least an indirect connection to the mayhem of the last episode (and that little Wolf bit doesn't count). I can't imagine how jarring this would be for someone marathoning the season for the first time.

 

I'm not even sure where you can put this episode. Right now, it's really derailed the main narrative, and I feel that it adds very little to the overall story, and even Morgan's overall character development. And, 90 minutes.... of this!?! I would have been ok without understanding Morgan's new "zen" mindframe. I can fanwank.

 

As at least one other person has said, this should have been a series of webisodes.

[Cheetosandchoc]

But then they would probably had to have scrapped the oh-so-compelling framing device of Morgan's lecture to the grey-toothed Wolfman.

Grey? I thought they looked more yellowy/shit  brown

[RainOnToosdays]

The young couple we saw briefly last night - the guy on crutches and girl giving Morgan a can of soup and a bullet - are they the "fruit hippies" Rick and Carol ran into? I vaguely remember one of them having something wrong with their leg.

No.  The fruit hippies are long dead.  The girl got eaten by a zombie in the same episode where we met her. Her boyfriend, Sam, was killed at Terminus.  He was the blonde guy who was first to get the baseball bat to the back of the head at the trough.

 

Rick and Carol ran into the "fruit hippies" the day Rick banished Carol, just before everything went to hell at the prison and everyone got split up before reuniting at Terminus. We don't know the timeline of Morgan's history, all we know is that everything we were shown last night took place sometime between Rick/Michonne/Carl running into him in "Clear" and him ending up at Alexandria. So it could have been Sam & Anna before Rick & Carol met them, but you're right - Sam was blonde and the guy last night had dark curly hair so it wasn't them. Darn. Would have been a neat little touch.  

[Cheetosandchoc]

I liked it even more watching it a second time.  Lennie and John Carroll Lynch were incredible.  Acting on TWD can be very hit and miss (more miss than hit to be honest) so when I get a chance to watch two great actors do their thing, I'm very happy.

 

Morgan is obviously still very disturbed as was Eastman.  It was like they were the two men who founded AA.  They both were still alcoholics but as long as they hung on to their philosophy, they would be okay.  Of course, it works better when you're in a cabin in the middle of the woods.

 

But I'm still not ready to completely toss out 'all life is precious'.  I don't think Carol is any more sane or 'right' than Morgan is.  She murdered two sick people while they lay in their beds.  I'm not sure that things would be so great if someone like Carol was running things, especially during flu season.

You watched that twice? Are you a glutton for punishment? Aint nobody have time for that!

[truelovekiss]

So I've been hemming and hawing about Morgan's morality crap since he came back.  And I maintain my belief that he's overrated and no one that wishy washy has a place in the zombie apocalypse world.  But upon further thinking, I've decided that most of my issues with his storyline is that it is just so damn TIRED at this point.

 

How many times have we been through this "is it morally ethical to kill someone who is causing death?" dilemma.  We did it with the Randall dilemma.  We did it again when Shane went InShane.  And again at the prison with Tomas and co.  And again with the governor.  Dale, Hershel, Rick, Gabriel and Tyrese, all went through the "what is okay in the zombie apocalypse?  what is not okay in the zombie apocalypse?" crisis of conscience.  At this point, how much more do we need to go over that?  And if we have to do it again, I think that having Morgan be the one to go through it is piss poor writing.  He's been living out there, pretty much on his own since the beginning (obviously excluding his time at the cabin in the woods).  It doesn't make sense for him to still be waffling on what is right and wrong in the current state of the world.  If they have to do this tired old plot again, it should be on someone like Deanna or Spencer or Jessie or Ron or any of the other Alexandrians (except Sam, because I have a feeling that kid is going to become pretty awesome in time.  Especially if he keeps hanging out with Carol) because now they're only starting to live in the apocalypse.  I'm assuming that none of them had to make those kinds of choices before, so watching them try to figure it out would make at least some sense.

[Caelicola]

I'll sit over here in the small circle of people who actually loved it.

It was extremely well-acted, and decently written as well, which isn't all that frequent, unfortunately.

Morgan now is season 4 farmer!Rick taken to the extreme, because Morgan before was season 3 delusional!Rick taken to the extreme. I'm a bit scared of what the next step for him is going to be, because taking neckbite!Rick to the extreme is a terrifying thought.

Would I have enjoyed it even more if they had switched around this and Thank You? Yeah, for sure.

But I'm not certain that the show wanted us to understand Morgan and make us see his point as much as see him for who he is now, for all his mistakes and dumb moral decisions. We have had 5 seasons to get to know Rick, Carol, Daryl and the rest of CDB in all their incarnations, so now, when they take a decision, we can generally see where they're coming from, even when the decision is effed up. We only saw glimpses of Morgan, so whatever he does is kind of out of the blue. Now we at least know why he does things, and we can decide for ourselves if his philosophy is sustainable or not (personally, I'm in the not camp).

I don't think the aim of the episode was to make Morgan a completely likable character, but not an unlikable one either.

Just a complicated one, with sort of in-flux sanity.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Caelicola

[Grace284]

That was so slow I was half expecting Beth Greene to pop up and serenade us all with her guitar.

 

I enjoyed the story about the psychopath who tried to beat a guy to death in case people found out he was a psychopath. That's some Rick Grimes level of forethought.

[terxav]

The acting and cinematography were of course absolutely gorgeous. And as much as I'm generally not a fan of creating more work for yourself when so much of the world has devolved to manual labor, there was something quietly beautiful about taking the time to properly bury the walkers and acknowledge that they had once been somebody. I love when the show includes little moments like that. Still didn't need to be 90 minutes though.

I know this episode was supposed to help us understand Morgan, but what it really underscored was the failure of blanket philosophies unless you plan on living off by yourself in the woods where the consequences of enacting those philosophies affect only you. If someone tells you specifically that they're going to kill the children if you don't kill them and you still let them live because your belief that "life is precious" is more important than your responsibility to those children, whatever happens after that the blood is on your hands.

Morgan does not belong with a group or let the group know that in a fight Morgan will fight but not kill and he take time to capture and tie up enemies.  Any situation that requires fighting humans puts peoplen at a disadvantage.

[bosawks]

I thought we learned this lesson with the Governor episodes already. Twice.

 

I will take 90 days of Morgan over 90 seconds of The Pirate King. 

[HighMaintenance]

So, after our 64 minutes of zen, and 26 minutes of  product placement, we discover that Morgan did NOT kill that wolf with his bo-staff at the end of the Lupine Riots.  But... didn't the wolf with the bad teeth make the "in memoriam" roster a couple weeks ago on the TTD?  If you can't rely on TTD to keep count, who can you trust?

 

The live and let live philosophy does not work in the ZA.  Morgan's brain is damaged goods, so I think that is why he's so quick to adopt it. And give the world's new circumstances, it's a foolish doctrine to follow.  This belief is functional only in Eastman's limited environment.  Sure, he can put down walkers, but he's seemingly had no practical experience in the ZA with his aikido mindset.  He mentions the one true psychopath before in the "real world", but probably has not met any of those child rapists, mass murderers, cannibals, prepubescent slashers and claimers that are free to roam the land once law and order became a thing of the past.  

 

The evil living are just as relentless as the walking dead.  Neither faction stops until they have captured you and killed, eaten or done their unspeakable acts. It is a convenient philosophy if you are a hermit or don't become part of a community,  because neither man's actions (or lack of action) affects anyone else but themselves and their own survival.  However, if there is a group/family/society to protect, they can't afford to be philosophical, introspective and "peace-loving".  The world is too primal for that.

[GaT]

Sure it would. But the Wolves aren't about sense. They give zero fucks. They are straight up psychopaths, which is why Morgan needs to quit trying to "redirect" them. This isn't pre-school. Take their fucking heads off. 

And wouldn't it be nice if the show gave a some kind of clue as to why they're psychopaths? So far it's just been "here's another bunch of crazies & this bunch have a W on their forehead so you can differentiate them from the other bunch of crazies we've had on the show" We don't have a clue why they do what they do, or what their ultimate goal (if they have one besides being crazy) is. They're adding nothing to the show other than a plot device for the regulars to fight against.

 

And speaking of the regulars, does it seem like the show is moving away from them this season? Other seasons we were deep into Rick angst by now, but he's hardly been on. We've had some Daryl, Carol, Carl, Glenn (who apparently has a good reason for not being on the show), but nothing like we have in the past. I'm wondering if the show is going to be using a different bunch of regulars.

[BananaRama]

I enjoyed this episode. I understand Morgan so much better now. He doesn't want to kill people because that was hurting him and driving him crazy. Eastman made a good point that humans aren't supposed to kill other humans and we have laws and rules to guide us. The problem is that in this post apocalyptic world there are no laws and there are new rules. Also, there isn't medicine or therapists to help crazy people and killers. Morgan tried but unfortunately, the wolves have to go. I think the same would have to be said for the folks at Terminus. But what about Jessie's abusive husband, Pete? Could he have been rehabilitated? Was Rick a little hasty when he blew Pete's head off?

[TattleTeeny]

I'm aware of the turn the other cheek concept. I'm aware of it; doesn't mean I approve of it. What would have happened had those 3 or 4 Wolves gotten the better of Morgan and had him on the ground with an axe above his head? Or if it had been Eastman (assuming he were there)? Or if the Wolves had an axe over Judith's head?

 

I know there is no way to win this argument. People swear up and down YOU SHALL NOT KILL. But I say there are times when it should be allowed. If someone is trying to kill me or my loved ones and I knock him to the ground 3 or 4 times, but he won't stay down, and he's bound and determined to KILL, than I'm going to kill him. My decision. My call. I gave him a chance. He didn't take it. Is it better that I die, or my loved ones? Eastman killed the man who killed his family. I think Eastman would have seen that same "look" and depravity in the eyes of the Wolves.

With you on all of it! And, I'd like to think that in such a scenario (and as a normal non-homicidal person), I'd be thinking more along the lines "incapacitate by any means necessary...but if this attacker dies in the process, so be it," which differs--perhaps only slightly--from, "I am going to flat-out kill you now."

Alexandria has no jail (that I know of), and is full of people who we are repeatedly reminded know nothing about how to handle this world (and half of them are out with Rick at the moment), and it is not like these Wolves came to the gate asking for refuge--a situation in which caution would certainly apply but also one in which I could definitely understand Morgan's reluctance to just go all-out Rambo (or Carol); the Wolves were hell-bent on murder without even a hint of stealth or subterfuge, and even a learned pacifist should see that, in this world, there was no other option but Carol's at that moment.

 

He played Norm Gunderson in Fargo. He was Marge's husband who was hoping to get a stamp design approved by the USPS.  He got the 2 cent stamp.

 

THANK YOU! Holy shit, man--it's like actual physical relief I'm feeling. And, no, I have no idea why I didn't just look it up, as it is clear I am equipped with a working internet.

 

Yes, that point of Tabitha getting out.  Um, how?  Even if she was able to push open the cell door - not that hard to believe - how did she open the cabin door?  Even if it was a non-knob handled door, it still required action taken to get the door to open that a goat simply couldn't do (or know how to do).

 

Our cat can open the bedroom door. Also, our cat is a jerk.

 

The timeline at the end is a bit confusing.  If that was Rick yelling to open the gate, why is Morgan still there?  Last we saw in the 2nd episode Morgan was walking away from Alexandria long before Rick could return.

 

We saw Morgan walking in that direction, but I don't recall any solid evidence saying he was doing anything beyond that.

 

Also, that Wolf's teeth! Oy, I just cannot.

Edited November 2, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[Boofish]

At the end of those 90 minutes I'm sure me and Tabitha felt the same way "THANK YOU GOD FOR PUTTING ME OUT OF MY MISERY"

 

I think the dilemmas are worth telling because everyone's moral high ground is at a different altitude for different reasons. But as I said before in small doses and flashbacks. I do not need to see 90 minutes of you learning how to use a stick or growing a beard and teaching a little girl to play chess.

 

That's why I liked Abrahams back story - flashbacks people FLASHBACKS!

[truelovekiss]

That was so slow I was half expecting Beth Greene to pop up and serenade us all with her guitar.

 

I enjoyed the story about the psychopath who tried to beat a guy to death in case people found out he was a psychopath. That's some Rick Grimes level of forethought.

Unpopular opinion:  that would have been an improvement.  

 

Also, why were there no fucking guards guarding the fucking psychopath that was in prison for killing lots of people?!?! I mean, it worked out alright that Eastman happened to know how to lay the beat down on Crazy Creighton/Clayton.  But don't they usually have prison guards for this kind of thing?

[Mars7]

Quit trying to make prequels happen, Walking Dead.

Isn't that the truth.  I don't know what Scott Gimple is trying to do.  I guarantee Frank Durabont would have never done what Gimple is doing with these overly, melodramatic episodes.   Regressing the internal stories with the characters really has no significance overall to the story line.  They should just show segments and move on to the relevant story line.  Did an episode as boring as this one have to be 90 minutes?  I think the TWD are trying to make this their last season.   All the TWD fans are going to tune into "The X-Files" and dismantle the TWD ratings for the second half of Season 6.       

Edited November 2, 2015 by Mars7

[truelovekiss]

Also, every time they brought up Akido or whatever it was, all I could think of was this:

 

 http://giphy.com/gifs/love-friends-boy-QV3A0OgMbbYA0

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

And yes about the goat! When Eastman kept going on about not killing living things I was wondering where the buck and kid were?! Cause she's not producing any milk without those. 

 

Maybe this is a question and thought process better left alone, for mental health sake?  I mean, that dude was way too laid back for a guy who lost his family to a psychopath and living completely alone(!! - another potentially disgusting clue) in a ZA.  Must have been craving other forms of affection though, since he told Morgan he really wanted to find people and be with them.

 

If I was Morgan, I would have stayed in that jail cell and fashioned my own lock to keep him out and away from me, is all I'm saying..........

Edited November 2, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Susie Derkins]

I've been waiting forever to see what became of Morgan in the time that lead up to the Terminus Teaser. However, I did grow weary in the wait and reached a point where I was more annoyed than interested, especially since this came on the heels of Glenn's questionable fate. I had no patience for the adventures of "Morgangelo" and Splinter/Eastman. This episode was beautifully shot and perfectly acted but would've been more useful a couple seasons ago. I think it was a cheap move to place this episode after the big Glen scene. Shady move, show runners, directors, editors, etc...

[riverheightsnancy]

As a clinician, the pacifist attitude could be construed as passive suicidal ideation. If you only believe in the good in people, but are profoundly depressed and actually want to die, but cannot (for whatever reason) do it yourself, then adopting an attitude of "non-violence" and going on a walk-about in a ZA with only a stick (staff) and you try to rehab very dangerous people, it is very likely to get you killed and to ultimately achieve your goal. Other than that, I got nothing!  

[AndySmith]

had no patience for the adventures of "Morgangelo" and Splinter/Eastman

 

Given his weapon of choice, wouldn't Morganello be more appropriate?

[Nashville]

It'd be like a Bill Bryson book (and movie, except without Robert Redford and Nick Nolte. Although, it would be kind of cool to see Nolte in the zombie apocalypse.)

Dunno. You ever see Nolte's DUI picture? Might be kinda hard not to mistake him for one of the undead.

  

Another thing - did anyone else get the impression that at the end of this episode, Morgan just kind of stumbled upon the signs for Terminus? But back in S5 when CDB escaped from Terminus and Rick wrote "No Sanctuary" on the sign, it seemed that Morgan was tracking Rick, didn't it?

 

 

 

Re:  Morgan finding the Terminus signs.

I thought about that, too.  I figure that Morgan is trailing Rick & Co. far enough behind that CDB is already at Terminus doing their thing when Morgan sees the signs.  By the time he gets closer, Terminus is gone and so is CDB..."no sanctuary" on the signs...onward toward Father Gabriel's church...and so on and so on.

Morgan did just kind of stumble upon the signs for Terminus. Remember, Morgan was already following the railroad tracks en route to Terminus when he saw the hobo signs, followed them to FPP's church, and found the "Rick Grimes"-inscribed map. Until Morgan saw the map, I doubt he'd thought about Rick in months. It wasn't until after Morgan found the map that he diverted from his Terminus-bound course, to follow the map to Alexandria - and Rick.

[TattleTeeny]

The more I read "all lives are precious," the madder I get, haha! Listen here, Morgan, if indeed all lives are precious, then how come the ones belonging to the people who are not committing grisly murder all willy-nilly in the broad daylight are the ones being taken? I mean, go ahead and have a creed, dude...but at least try to take the right turn if/when you come to a crossroads that nullifies said creed! A contingency creed, if you will.

[riverheightsnancy]

We don't do foot sweeps in jo but we do have an array of moves that strike to the eyes, very useful for dealing with walkers I'd think.  Plus a jo is much smaller - the staff Morgan uses looks like a tree trunk to me, hate to carry that for miles and miles.  I'd be less concerned with stumblers than Wolves but facing a guy holding a cutting tool while you have a stick - that's a pretty the definition of Jo. 

Yes, in taekwondo the staffs are as tall or taller than the person. A 6' man should be using a 6' staff or taller (especially in competition). It really extends the reach of the arms, if you hold at the bottom third of the staff and you swing for the fences (which is a move). I agree that it is much more to carry and using it is a very big work out for the arms. Causes bruises too when you bring the bostaff back and you snap it in against yourself. My kid would have bruises all over her arms. In Taekwondo (which is a Korean art form-loosely the way of the hand and foot) they do use shorter sticks called bahmani (Korean for short stick). I do think that any of these tools could be valuable for the younger kids to learn because at some point, they may not have bullets and a stick/staff could be very useful. Maybe Morgan could have purpose in "life" to teach the children these techniques. If the adults do not want the kids trained with the guns, what would the harm of martial arts be? Most martial arts do espouse that you only use it when you must. In other words, you don't look for fights because the other person is at a disadvantage against a person trained in the martial arts! hee!  I would love to see someone use song jae bongs (nunchucks). When my kid used to use double metal ones, they can really hurt and are fast. Just watch any old Bruce Lee videos. That can be very useful weapons. 

[JackONeill]

 A contingency creed, if you will.

 

A contingency credence clearwater revival.

Who needs Beth, if we had that?