S02.E04: The Fury Of Firestorm

[Chicago Redshirt]

Also, I call bullshit that Jefferson couldn’t go to college.  If he had a 4.0 GPA, he would have gotten a scholarship.  Use some logic show (not something the writers use much).

 

In fairness, I don't know if real-world full-ride scholarships are as plentiful as one might hope, even to black former star athletes with 4.0 GPAs. (Keepin' it real.) That may not make college unattainable, as he could presumably always go to Central City Community College or somewhere. But between his funk at being injured and other factors, he might have leaned too hard on "I can't get a full ride athletic scholarship, might as well become a mechanic rather than rack up $100k in debt."

 

See, Francine, all this lying is ... y'know what? It isn't even half on Francine. All Iris has known is lies from Joe. Lies of omission and "to protect" her and the woman is apologizing for "trying to make him the bad guy"? Wev. We don't know if Francine's son is Joe's because Iris interrupted and did not let her mother finish the explanation.  I like Iris, so hearing  that the newly-minted, front-page story-making reporter "wouldn't know if you [Francine] were lying"? Because you have no way to check facts on that son you dug up okay. You are unable to do simple math? You are unable to figure out some way of getting around sealed files at the rehab center your mom was in last and see who actually did visit her? I get that Iris is supposed to be in a very emotional, angry, distrustful place, but the words that Iris speaks aren't exactly adding up, imo.  It's... tiresome, the lazy writing.

Iris was faced with two possibilities: either 1) Francine had become pregnant by Joe and kept secret from him that he has a son who he had been denied the chance to even know existed, let alone get to know 2) in her addict-dom, Francine cheated at least once with someone and gave birth to a son.

 

I would think I would want to know which of these was true. But I could see Iris saying, "Either way, it doesn't matter, since it will hurt Dad, so just GTFO."

 

BTW, I'm not sure I like the idea of Wally West being a crack-baby, but I guess that's where we are.

 

So, in the space of one episode, Patty is suddenly not only a detective, but also Joe's partner? Was it written somewhere that she had to be his partner to be on the task force?

 

 

In an earlier appearance, Patty was begging to be part of the task force and Joe's partner, and Joe eventually let her. 

 

I assume by joining the two-person task force, she gets a promotion to detective.

 

I mean, nice that we have a new Firestorm in Jefferson Jackson, we might have a potential Deathstorm in the guy "rejected" by Prof. Stein, and there's the possibility of a Wally West coming into existence. But between Francine's drama and the show hellbent on shoving Batty (Barry/Patty) down our throats, I think I agree with AVClub this week. Also: King Shark? Really?!? He's not a canon Flash villain. I can buy Grodd on many levels, but a lumbering humanoid shark? And he gets put down by the Earth-2 Harrison Wells. Looks like Hewitt is going to have a new friend to play with in the Pipeline.

 

And yeah . .. the Pipeline is still a thing. Wasn't Iron Heights getting a new wing to house metahumans, so that the STAR Labs gang wouldn't inter villains without a trial? This show gives me fewer headaches and heartbreak than Arrow, but they're both present.

 

Hewitt's character is apparently a rift on a cannon Firestorm villain whose name was dropped in the episode.

 

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Henry_Hewitt_(New_Earth)

 

As to King Shark not being a canon Flash villain, neither are Multiplex, Plastique, Atom Smasher, Sand Demon and others. 

 

So what Caitlin is a bit of a snob? It's a character flaw. Characters are SUPPOSED to have those. We're acting like Caitlin being a snob makes her some awful human. This is why we get characters like Patty....

 

Plus, there was a lot of emotion in it for Caitlin. She saw someone accomplished and thought, "sure that person has what it takes to carry my husband's legacy because look at all the effort he put into his career"....

 

It bothered me more than it otherwise might, because there was a whiff of racism as well that came with the snobbery. 

[netlyon2]

Awww, I loved the shark!  When he reached out and snatched Barry up, I nearly fell off of the couch laughing.

 

I'm not a Caitlin fan in general, and this episode did nothing to change that.  For me, it wasn't so much the snobbery (although that was pretty off-putting), it was the blindness verging on stupidity that was so irritating.  Perhaps the actor playing Hewitt gave away too much, too soon, but he seemed pretty whackadoodle before he even started manifesting his powers.

 

Actually, I was stymied by the fact that no one seemed to point out that Dr. Stein was dying because of his lost partner.  While Caitlin was all, "but you'll be a hero," I was thinking that the guy who ran back to save his teammate (and got hurt in the process) would be more likely to say yes because it would be saving Dr. Stein.  Furthermore, I think someone who wasn't interested in having superpowers, but had demonstrated a predilection for saving people, would make a better hero anyway.

 

I might also be missing something regarding the timeline of Francine leaving Iris and Joe.  Why is Iris totally supportive of Joe's lying to her, but completely dismissive of her mother?  I mean, I can understand why she would resent Francine and choose not to have a relationship with her, but it seems that the show had her channel all of her resentment in her mother's direction in order to keep Joe in the "good dad" column.  Not buying it, Show.  Also, Iris, I'm not sure when the woman was supposed to be able to mention a son/brother when your conversation with her consisted of "Yeah, I'll meet you but I have no interest in a relationship with you and I'm leaving now, bye."

 

Finally, I really wish that they would acknowledge that none of them ever knew Harrison Wells because he was murdered by the guy who wanted to get back at Barry.  It really bugs me that the show is not having them distinguish between Wells and Eobard Thawne, because it seems to indicate that they will feel justified in distrusting Wells and treating him like crap when they run into the Earth-2 version of him.  I need the smart people to be smarter, Show.  Have them start by referring to "Thawne" as "Thawne," instead of "Wells."

 

Hmmm, I actually liked the episode more than my mostly negative post would indicate.  **fights urge to start up talking about Patty, whom I keep accidentally thinking of as Patty Simcox**

 

ETA:  After reading the recap, I'm glad to know that John Ramos and I agree on a number of things.  Vindicated!

Edited October 28, 2015 by netlyon2

[XtremeOne1]

I watched that episode, and the reason she came to him was so she could be on the task force, not his partner.  And this may be nitpicking, but since when does Joe decide who is going to be his partner or who can be made into a detective after a week or however many days passed since Patty showed up? He's just a detective; he's not a Sergeant, Lieutenant, or Captain. Plus, as far as I know, a cop has to take an exam in order to become a detective. Or should I just assume this show can't be bothered with doing this kind of stuff? If the plan was for her to be his partner and also be on the task force, then she should have been a detective from the get go. I've never heard of a cadet being partners with a seasoned detective. Or rather, have never seen it, either.

I'm pretty sure you need to be an office for a while, take a detective test, and still wait to get the promotion. 

 

This is yet another reason why Patty isn't a believable as a human.  The actress is 30, but given this is the CW we have to de-age that by a few years because "ew 30!" I'm pretty sure she's around Barry's age(26)...So Patty tripled major in three of the hardest degrees(it would be impossible to finish that in four years, just due to the amount of classes), went through the police academy, spent a couple of years on the force, took the detective exam, and got a promotion. 

 

Even Barry only has one degree and is in forensics(and apparently the only one in Central City)....

I assume by joining the two-person task force, she gets a promotion to detective.

 

Hewitt's character is apparently a rift on a cannon Firestorm villain whose name was dropped in the episode.

 

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Henry_Hewitt_(New_Earth)

 

As to King Shark not being a canon Flash villain, neither are Multiplex, Plastique, Atom Smasher, Sand Demon and others. 

 

 

It bothered me more than it otherwise might, because there was a whiff of racism as well that came with the snobbery. 

 

That isn't how Detectives are made. 

 

And Henry was black so not sure where the racism thing is coming from. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by XtremeOne1

[Chicago Redshirt]

XtremeOne1

 

Different police departments operate differently. In the real world, at least some departments consider "detective" a title rather than a rank like Sgt., Lt., etc. 

 

For instance, here is something from the City of Chicago's web site:

https://portal.chicagopolice.org/portal/page/portal/ClearPath/FAQ/Becoming%20a%20Police%20Officer

 

How do I go about becoming a homicide detective (or working in the Marine Unit, the Canine Unit, etc.)?
You must first be hired as an entry-level Police Officer with the City of Chicago. After your probationary period, you may apply to a specialized unit as opportunities become available. The selection process may range from a competitive examination to simple seniority. We cannot guarantee that you will be accepted into the unit of your choice.

 

And from a chart here:
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Police_Department#Ranks

 

Chicago detectives are not considered ranking officers, but rather officers assigned to specialized units, e.g. violent crimes, robbery, gang and narcotics (NAGIS), Internal Affairs Division (IAD), Major Accident Investigation Section (MAIS), etc. (Unless they hold the rank of Sergeant or above.)

 

So it could just be that by joining the Metahuman Task Force, a specialized unit, Spivot got the title of detective. It could be that she was in the pipeline to be a detective and on joining the task force, her application got fast-tracked. In a world where Barry is the only known CSI -- not to mention all the metahuman and fake-sciencey stuff -- I think there are numerous other things that are less realistic.

 

As to the racism thing, racism is complicated and to sum up things here is going to do a disservice to the topic.

 

But there is one form of racism that involves stereotype all blacks as lazy and entitled and any number of other things.

 

There is another form that separates some blacks as "the good ones" with the implication that a) they are good because they are like white people and b) the rest of the blacks are bad.

 

Caitlin's embrace of Hewitt because he was educated, articulate and like her and her rejection of Jax as street and likely unworthy to be part of Firestorm smacks of privilege to me. YMMV.

[Ruby25]

Yeah, Caitlin sure was a snob in this episode. I've never been crazy about DP on this show though- every time she gets to give longer speeches it betrays how weak her acting is, imo. I don't know why the writers seem to love her so much- I'm guessing she's really friendly with everybody behind the scenes.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Ruby25

[maczero]

 

In fairness, I don't know if real-world full-ride scholarships are as plentiful as one might hope, even to black former star athletes with 4.0 GPAs. (Keepin' it real.) That may not make college unattainable, as he could presumably always go to Central City Community College or somewhere. But between his funk at being injured and other factors, he might have leaned too hard on "I can't get a full ride athletic scholarship, might as well become a mechanic rather than rack up $100k in debt."

Too true.  Speaking from experience, being a minority, lower middle class and having good grades didn't earn me any free rides through college either.  

 

And honestly mechanics make decent money.

BTW, I'm not sure I like the idea of Wally West being a crack-baby, but I guess that's where we are.

 

 

I know it's wrong but this gave me a serious chuckle.

[LisaM]

I liked it a lot -- as I usually do with The Flash episodes. Thought Iris was unexpectedly strong with her mother; interesting reveal about the possibility of a brother.

 

Loved Jax and hope to see him with Professor Stein on LoT.

 

I like Barry and Patty. Very interested to see if Cisco follows through with the Professor's advice and tells his friends about Vibe.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Two Become One, Mark Two
The S.T.A.R. crew races to find another Firestorm partner for Stein.

[GHScorpiosRule]

For me, Vanessa Williams will always be that "underaged" girl in red in Will Smith's Parents Just Don't Understand video from 1988. Boy, I just totally aged myself, heh.  She was also on the first season or two of the original Melrose Place.  She's a decent actress, but here? She sounded and acted like she was doped up on medication or something.  I think I would have preferred Salli Richardson to play her mother, since she and Candace really look like they could be mother and daughter. Or is Salli too young?

 

King Shark or whatever his name is reminded me of "Bruce" the mechanical Great White that was used in the original Jaws.  It was the teeth.

[Jack Kerouac]

It bothered me more than it otherwise might, because there was a whiff of racism as well that came with the snobbery. 

 

I really don't believe there was. Hewitt was also black and Caitlin loved him. For her, it was all about wasted potential.

[Maverick]

 I thought Hewitt, with his arrogance and condescension, was a lot like Hartley.  I wish Cisco had noted the similarities and rooted against him rather than apparently acquiescing to Caitlin.  

 

 Clearly Central City U needs to start Ethics in a Metahuman World 101 class.  And all of Team Flash needs to enroll for a remedial course.  Hewitt no longer has metahuman abilities but since he knows all of Team Flash's secrets they're going to Gitmo him in the Pipeline 'till he learns to keep his mouth shut, bitch.  The waterboarding can't be far behind.  Who's DC's counterpart to Hydro Man?

 

  Francine is so robotic there has to be more to her story.  Earth-2, time travel, something has to be involved and I wish they'd get to it.

 

 Can Barry not get an email from his dad?  Test?  Postcard?  I guess Henry's gone into hiding since Barry would just zip over and drop in unannounced if he knew where dear old dad was.

 

 I was hoping Tina would be Stein's science replacement on the team but then they made Wells a good guy so I guess he's going to step in, with the team side eyeing him the whole time.  Still, Tina was fangirling all over Joe so maybe he'll pull her onto the Team...or at least use her as his own personal resource on the side. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I'm going to need Barry to stop flirting (where was that?) with Patty and go comfort his best friend who was there when he lost both his parents. His best friend who was alone and crying while Joe was encouraging Barry to try something new, even though Iris is now free....

 

I just don't get it.

 

IKR?  Loved that whole storyline of last season about how Joe was so upset about her being with Eddie when Barry/Iris was his OTP.  And now, all of a sudden, its -  "You've been in love with Iris since forever................ but forget her (for now) and be a playa;  go get it on with my partner, stud!  And once you've 'hit it and quit it', Iris might be more available for a relationship with you.".

 

Ugh.  I knew it was unavoidable and would happen at some point (at least once), but CW always gonna CW.

Edited October 29, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Ruby25]

Joe should date Patty himself if he thinks she's so great. Barry wasn't showing near the amount of interest that Joe claims he was, imo.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Joe should date Patty himself if he thinks she's so great. Barry wasn't showing near the amount of interest that Joe claims he was, imo.

 

Kinda like how Dig became their biggest fan and helped force the 'Olicity' on Arrow - replace 'Joe' with 'Diggle', 'Barry' with 'Oliver' and 'Patty' with 'Felicity' & it'd be a near identical match of how the two 'ships got the final push on how they came to be..... but that's talking about another show and veering off the topic here.

 

 

I usually like Caitlin and appreciate what she brings to the team each episode, but holy Hell was she getting on my last nerve in this hour.  I know she is part of a superhero's team and was (albeit very briefly) married to one-half of another one, but WhereTF does she get off trying to tell someone that its their moral and civic responsibility to merge with someone else to become a human nuclear bomb to be a superhero?  "It might not work and possibly ruin your life, but you need to do this.  NOW."  Instead of telling her to be nicer, Barry should have been telling her to slow her 'I'm a better and smarter human being than you are' roll, when it came to her initial interactions with "Jax".

[millennium]

YAWN.

 

When will this season stop spinning its wheels?

[KirkB]

I don't know why but now I want to see King Shark fight Grodd. 

 

Where the hell was Jay? I mean, I don't know what he would have actually contributed to the story but his absence was noticeable, at least to me.

 

I totally understand Iris' attitude here. Yes, her father has repeatedly lied to her and withheld things from her, but at least he was THERE to do so, and she was able to confront him and show her anger. The one thing he never did was abandon her. Her mom disappeared from her life and refused to come back until she was dying and now it seems she is looking for redemption or forgiveness to make herself feel better, not to help Iris. 

 

I'm still not interested in Barry and Patty. I know the show wants me to be but I just don't care.

 

STAR Labs might as well turn off its security system. First Jay and now Wells just waltz in despite it supposedly being upgraded. 

[phoenics]

Yeah, Caitlin sure was a snob in this episode. I've never been crazy about DP on this show though- every time she gets to give longer speeches it betrays how weak her acting is, imo. I don't know why the writers seem to love her so much- I'm guessing she's really friendly with everybody behind the scenes.

She got the role solely because she's friends with one of the producers - AK I think. Which largely explains why she gets more screen time and attention than the actual female lead of the show.

[phoenics]

Too true.  Speaking from experience, being a minority, lower middle class and having good grades didn't earn me any free rides through college either.

This may depend on where you choose to go to school. My father and I mentored a young high school senior with excellent grades and community service involvement (nothing earth shattering) and he turned down a full ride at MOREHOUSE (where my dad went) for a full ride at Howard.

If Jax applied at even a state school, he would have gotten a full ride. It could be though that the accident happened too late in the year and all of the scholarships were handed out already. This happens to a lot of great students - that's why I always push people to apply early admission. Folks who do it on the regular application due date get the picked over scholarship money - the early application students have already taken the good scholarships - many of which have deadlines in late December, months before most college applications are due.

The more you know... it's how I got a full ride at Spelman.

I really don't believe there was. Hewitt was also black and Caitlin loved him. For her, it was all about wasted potential.

I think if you read CRS's post about "good" vs "bad" blacks, you'll understand where some of us are getting that whiff of racism.

I usually like Caitlin and appreciate what she brings to the team each episode, but holy Hell was she getting on my last nerve in this hour.  I know she is part of a superhero's team and was (albeit very briefly) married to one-half of another one, but WhereTF does she get off trying to tell someone that its their moral and civic responsibility to merge with someone else to become a human nuclear bomb to be a superhero?  "It might not work and possibly ruin your life, but you need to do this.  NOW."  Instead of telling her to be nicer, Barry should have been telling her to slow her 'I'm a better and smarter human being than you are' roll, when it came to her initial interactions with "Jax".

Well now I think I know why Iris was left out of these scenes - she might have cussed Caitlin's snobby @ss right on out and been 1000% right to do it.

[TwistedandBored]

This episode was meh.

I liked the new Firestorm. Jay's storyline this episode felt like after-school special of don't judge a book by it's cover.

Caitlin was super snob but I guess she came around in the end. I don't know I just started to tune her out. But seriously, if the two guys weren't black this would have made Caitlin seem racist. Now she is a classiest. I did not know that about her. New character trait? 

I liked Iris's storyline but it felt soo isolated from the main storyline. I wonder how long she would keep this secret from her father? I bet she would crack faster than Joe and Barry did. 

Also, I just now started to see how selfish Barry is and I knew he had some selfish in him but I didn't know how much. If he is not the one needing constants reassures from others then it like fuck it. Seriously, Iris his best friend is going through a life altering things in her life and he is not checking on her?

Iris needs a better friends and family. 

[jaytee1812]

I really don't believe there was. Hewitt was also black and Caitlin loved him. For her, it was all about wasted potential.

Yeah but it came over like she only has time for 'the good ones'.

[Chip]

It didn't really come over that way for me. I'm still hung up on the fact that they stuck him in the pipeline because Caitlin pretty much told him Barry was the Flash.

[miracole]

I think I would have preferred Salli Richardson

 

I would have loved her as her mother, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have given her a crappy Tyler Perry story line. 

[SevenStars]

Yeah but it came over like she only has time for 'the good ones'.

I don't think the writers were doing this but it does fit into the believe that the only "good" blacks are the ones who have the qualities that some white believes make them a better fit for their world. It goes with the saying that the only "good" blacks are the ones who can act like white people and disregard their own culture.

Like I said before, I don't think the writers had any intention of implying this but I won't disregard opinions of those who saw it this way, because respectable politics was and is still being built on this believe.

Anyway,my take away from this episode is: Barry is being an awful friend to Iris, which makes me wonder if the reason he was ever a good friend to her is because he had high hope she would return his feelings. But since she didn't, now he doesn't really care about how she is feeling in regard to the things going on in her life. That's mess-up.

I understand Joe was being a good father to Barry but where is his loyalty to Iris? If I remember correctly Joe was not this supportive about Iris dating Eddie because he knew Barry had feelings for her. So now, he's playing match maker for Barry knowing that Iris have feelings for Barry. Whatever.

The writers could have easily including Iris in the main story since Iris had been looking for more metahuman in the city from the start. This is how her whole journalism career started. So she could have easily been brought in to help the search, especially since it was so urgent, which means all hands on deck. The writers just don't seems to want her in the main story. Which explain why they wrote that stupid lying about the Flash story last season that kept her away from being part of the main story. I hate this.

[Terrafamilia]

I took Caitlin's snobbishness as just part snobbishness and part trying to find a Ronnie replacement for Dr. Stein, not just a proper genetic match. Her search turn out to be too superficial though.

[Marie F.]

The Caitlin thing is interesting. I liked Hewitt because he was an a-hole. I wish he had stuck around longer, but his anger was kind of jarring. It didn't really make sense. They could have had him get angry and accidentally burn/killed--a loved one and then went after Team Flash for turning him into what he is; instead, his anger just kind of came out of nowhere. Also, it could have been interesting if the team had a moment of "Do the ends justify our means?" One thing that I think the show needs is someone to occasionally step in and ask people if they're going about things the right way. Someone to ask them, "Should we really be taking people's blood without their permission? Is there another way? Is it ethical to hold Hewitt captive like this?" And if Hewitt had accidentally killed someone he loved, it would have given them a moment to sit back and reflect on the negative impact they may be having on people and the lengths they're willing to go.

 

Back to Caitlin, she was definitely displaying some not-so-subtle "-ism" or bias there and I think the only reason she even liked Hewitt in the first place was because they are so much alike.  Did you see the way he didn't even bother to shake Barry's hand like he was insignificant or beneath them but went to shake Dr. Stein's?  It kind of mimicked how Caitlin treated Jax, like he was unworthy because he isn't a celebrated scientist.  If it were anyone else, I would say that part of the Caitlin/Jax thing was just wanting the very best to fill in the shoes of the person she loved/lost, but since it's Caitlin, who I don't believe ever really cared about Ronnie, I don't think it had anything to do with doing Ronnie's legacy justice.  I think it's classism more than anything else.  She thought Hewitt's degrees/profession made him a better person than Jax, but it turns out that Jax had more character and heart than him.

The writers could have easily including Iris in the main story since Iris had been looking for more metahuman in the city from the start. This is how her whole journalism career started. So she could have easily been brought in to help the search, especially since it was so urgent, which means all hands on deck. The writers just don't seems to want her in the main story. Which explain why they wrote that stupid lying about the Flash story last season that kept her away from being part of the main story. I hate this.

Yep. They're not going to do that because now it's Patty that does the metahuman research instead of Iris.  I realized that this episode when she took that tooth to Barry; it reminded me of Iris taking her metahuman/Star Labs research to Barry.  They've taken away much of her purpose on the show--she's not even his bestie anymore--and she seems to currently exist just to set up Wally's entrance.  What happens with Iris after that?

Edited October 30, 2015 by Marie F.

[Ruby25]

 

Yep. They're not going to do that because now it's Patty that does the metahuman research instead of Iris.  I realized that this episode when she took that tooth to Barry; it reminded me of Iris taking her metahuman/Star Labs research to Barry.  They've taken away much of her purpose on the show--she's not even his bestie anymore--and she seems to currently exist just to set up Wally's entrance.  What happens with Iris after that?

Presumably, they get rid of Patty and go back to Barry/Iris, right? Once Barry's gotten laid by somebody else and is considered "experienced" enough for him and Iris to get together, I figured that's what they'll do. I mean, assuming they haven't decided to drop them altogether, which I don't think they have (on this show, unlike Arrow, dropping Barry/Iris kind of does take away Iris's role, since the WestAllen love story is so essential to Flash comics, whereas Laurel can still be Black Canary, even if they don't have her with Oliver). But Iris being matriarch of the Flash family tree and everything...it just feels like it's much more crucial that they be together on this one.

[Marie F.]

Presumably, they get rid of Patty and go back to Barry/Iris, right? Once Barry's gotten laid by somebody else and is considered "experienced" enough for him and Iris to get together, I figured that's what they'll do. I mean, assuming they haven't decided to drop them altogether, which I don't think they have (on this show, unlike Arrow, dropping Barry/Iris kind of does take away Iris's role, since the WestAllen love story is so essential to Flash comics, whereas Laurel can still be Black Canary, even if they don't have her with Oliver). But Iris being matriarch of the Flash family tree and everything...it just feels like it's much more crucial that they be together on this one.

I think this is what a lot of people would like to believe and Iris is a big deal to the entire mythos of the Flash, but I wouldn't put it past them, to be honest.  I think they're trying really hard to make Patty work and to put a whole lot of distance between Barry and Iris--and not trying to make Iris work at all.  Someone mentioned that commercial they aired during Supergirl which was about a Barry/Betty kiss that didn't happen in this episode; I think they really want her to work and aren't interested in at least keeping some of the tension between Iris and Barry.  At this point, I'm not sure he ever loved Iris and when he inevitably professes his love for Patty, I won't believe that either.  This show is terrible at romace.

[Ruby25]

I'm not sure I'd go that far yet, simply because nothing about the way Patty's been introduced or the way they're hooking her up with Barry so quickly makes me think she'll be anything but temporary...I could be wrong, but I've watched a lot of CW shows and she just really feels like a temporary thing, and I'm suspicious about how fast it's going. The stalling romances on Arrow (Oliver/Sara and Felicity/Ray) built up for much longer and neither couple got together until the second half of the season. The way this one's moving makes me think it's doomed before season's end, probably by 2x15 or so. And I'm guessing that something's gotta wake up Iris's feelings for Barry at some point, which will probably happen in the last half of the season as well.

 

So I'm not going to pronounce that they've iced the Barry/Iris pairing yet, until I see where things are headed once Patty's served her purpose.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Ruby25

[Marie F.]

Let's hope that's the case.  I just hope that if she is temporary that they don't have me completely lose interest in Barry/Iris by then.  Because I'm starting to wonder if they're still into each other at all--or if they're even friends.

[Ruby25]

Well, this last episode sure made it sound to me like Barry is forcing himself to settle for Patty because he can't be with Iris...wasn't that the whole point of the conversation with Joe about exploring something new? They hadn't acknowledged it up until that point, but by saying that the way they did, it kind of dooms Barry/Patty before they even start, imo. Even if he likes her, she'll always be "not Iris."

 

Besides, as far as that goes, what we need to see more is Iris's feelings for Barry, since of course we know how he feels about her. That's what we haven't seen yet- supposedly she's getting over Eddie, but she doesn't seem all that broken up about him to me. I'm hoping we'll get to that at some point in the second half probably.

[cynic]

I didn't like Caitlin's elitism in this episode, especially since she was so blinded by it that it had terrible repercussions. Way to go giving an unstable person superpowers simply because he has credentials and then having to lock up said person indefinitely because you spilled all your secrets to him. Nice. Here's another person for Star Labs' Gitmo. I understand that Professor Stein was in dire straits, but that doesn't give them a free pass to be stupid. 

 

On a side note, I frequent another Flash board. They're always bashing Iris for everything, like not saying please when she asked for the room. I was curious how they would react to Caitlin's behavior this week. Hardly a peep. The double standard there is glaring.

[paigow]

Oh and Barry seriously needs to improve his peripheral vision.  How does a twelve foot tall shark man sneak up on you?

Barry must have relatives on The Walking Dead... always letting slow-ass zombies surprise them

[Lord Malvolio]

Ok first off, an OK episode. Basically a "fix it" episode where as shoe horning a black actor into the Firestorm role for the spin off. Ok, can we finally move on now? ( By the way, Coud they have made him any more "black"? All that was missing was a gold grill and his pants hanging below his ass. And why didn't they use the established black character of Jason Rusch???)  Anyhow, as for our surpise at the end the episode, that was NOT King Shark, but the often misidentified The Shark, a known Green Lantern villain:

 

 

Karshon, a tiger shark mutated by nuclear waste into a humanoid monstrosity. Despite his heightened intelligence, he is still motivated by his bloodthirsty instincts.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Lord Malvolio

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I have never liked Iris more when she told her mom to take a hike. Yes, Joe is the one who lied to her but her mother could have come back at any time in the last twenty years if she truly wanted a relationship with Iris. To wait until she's dying is selfish. I just wish she would have let her mother tell her whether Joe was the father of the baby before she stormed off.

 

I get that Iris is the best investigative report ever so I'm fine with her finding out that her mom gave birth to another kid (mostly because birth records are public), but how did she confirm her mother's illness? There's this thing called HIPAA.

 

Caitlin was such a snob but I'm not surprised. A lot of people with advanced degrees act like anyone without a PhD is beneath them. And then there are people with science PhDs who look down on anyone with non-science PhDs (and even people with science PhdDs looking own on people with science PhDs within their field but in a different area of concentration). I'm not saying this excuses Caitlin's behavior, just that I have seen this in real life so it was a realistic snobbery.

 

The land shark was stupid, Buffy did it better.

Hee, I was kind of hoping that the land shark was looking for a vampire who cheats at kitten poker.

Edited November 2, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[KirkB]

On the subject of the shark, I get the people of Central City being used to weird things, but how does a twelve foot shark man stomping around relatively nearly the police station manage to go unnoticed or unremarked on?

Edited November 2, 2015 by KirkB

[maczero]

 

 

Karshon, a tiger shark mutated by nuclear waste into a humanoid monstrosity. Despite his heightened intelligence, he is still motivated by his bloodthirsty instincts.

The shark geek in me has to point out that whoever attacked Flash had great white characteristics.

[Lord Malvolio]

True it did look like a great white, but I think when Geoff Johns revamped The Shark, he made it more Great White than Tiger. At least the artist (Ethan Van Shiver drew it that way).

[Oscirus]

Between taking someone's blood without permission, sentencing prisoners to Gitmo and going back into the past, changing stuff and creating portals to another world in the process, and constantly creating super villains through either negligence or outright stupidity. I'm starting to think that Barry's a villain and star labs is his very own evil lair.

 

That's probably going to be the series finale reveal.

[Lord Malvolio]

Well looks like it was confirmed it was Killer Shark.

[zannej]

On the scholarship front-- it really does depend on what school you go to and the circumstances. I had a 4.0 GPA, was involved with student government, and tutored other students and I never got any scholarship offers-- but, I moved around a lot and graduated from high school overseas and less than a year later I moved to another country. I applied for numerous scholarships for my college on Guam and never got them-- and eventually one of the counselors told me privately that I was being rejected due to my race (which was why people with lower GPAs were being selected instead). So, even if you work hard and get good grades, you don't always get the same opportunities.

 

I didn't get a sense of classism or racism from Caitlin. I think it was more a snobbery involving wanting someone more like Ronnie. While I think the actress who plays Caitlin is cute and it seems like she is very sweet and well-loved by the cast, I don't see a lot of range in her acting yet. She lacks the nuance that some of the other actors on the show have-- now, I don't know if it is an issue with talent or directing or just the way things are written. I still like her though. She's not terrible and there are some moments that come off as genuine.

 

I admit the plot with trying to find the new FIRESTORM companion bored me. I love Dr. Stein, but I was always sort of "meh" about Ronnie and I feel the same way about Jax.

 

The comic book geek in me wanted Oliver to end up with black canary (who I always think of as Dinah Lance), but I don't really see chemistry between Oliver and Laurel but I really like Felicity. The difference between the "Olicity" pairing and "Batty" or "Parry" is that Felicity has been Oliver's friend and confidante for years and there has been a build to it. Barry and Patty just met and it seems like they are trying to force her on Barry. I like the actress and I want to like the character, but I can't stand it when they bring in a character just to be a love interest and don't do it organically.

 

I also want to like Iris but I think the writers didn't get her right when they created her. She comes off as a bit of an airhead. The actress seems more intelligent than her character when I see her in interviews. That said, I know that she is supposed to be destined to be with Barry. It just seems so strange to see her father go from wanting to see Barry and Iris together to pushing Barry to ask Patty out. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

I had to go drive my brother to a doctor's appointment in the middle of typing this up so I lost my train of thought.

[Trini]

Surprised no one mentioned this; Stein says they are going to Pittsburgh to train with a woman who helped him and Ronnie before.

Who is this woman?

Does she have powers also?

Is this a comics reference?

Should we be looking out for her in the spin-off?

I just have a lot of questions from that one line, and I don't think I've seen it addressed elsewhere either.

[zannej]

Surprised no one mentioned this; Stein says they are going to Pittsburgh to train with a woman who helped him and Ronnie before.

Who is this woman?

Does she have powers also?

Is this a comics reference?

Should we be looking out for her in the spin-off?

I just have a lot of questions from that one line, and I don't think I've seen it addressed elsewhere either.

Good catch. It might be a reference to a hero we don't know about. Maybe they will touch on it in the new series.

[Trini]

On re-watch, this episode makes nearly every character look bad at some point. I think it's all been noted already, but I'm especially annoyed by Joe's double standards, and that Iris is so mad at her mother that she barely knows, when Joe was lying to her for decades. I think there should have been more fallout from that.

It also makes me wonder how Iris (apparently) never tried to visit her mother's grave, or track down extended family in the years between. (Yeah, yeah, I know extended family is usually non-existent on TV)

It was a good intro to Jax, though.

[bettername2come]

Quote

I'm especially annoyed by Joe's double standards, and that Iris is so mad at her mother that she barely knows, when Joe was lying to her for decades. 

I think Iris being mad at her mother over Joe is understandable to me because Joe, lying liar that he is, has always been a father to Iris and she's never had to doubt how much he cares for her, while she doesn't have a strong connection to Francine. Although I am really curious about how Joe maintained this "dead wife" lie for years and how many people knew the truth the whole time.

[Hecate7]

On 10/28/2015 at 3:35 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

In fairness, I don't know if real-world full-ride scholarships are as plentiful as one might hope, even to black former star athletes with 4.0 GPAs. (Keepin' it real.) That may not make college unattainable, as he could presumably always go to Central City Community College or somewhere. But between his funk at being injured and other factors, he might have leaned too hard on "I can't get a full ride athletic scholarship, might as well become a mechanic rather than rack up $100k in debt."

 

GPA isn't that relevant in getting college scholarships in the US anymore. Just having a 4.0 won't automatically get you a scholarship. You have to know which ones to apply for and have someone to walk you through the process, because it's very complicated. You have to be National Merit and get a 100% on your PSAT to automatically get a full ride. There are some merit-based scholarships, but they are the same dollar amount they were in 1978. You can maybe buy one textbook with a State of Kansas Scholarship, for instance. (Once upon a time those were meant to cover your entire tuition, but it went up and they didn't). And Community College is cheaper, and obviously he went or he wouldn't be a mechanic. That also costs money, but it's supposed to be cheaper than mainstream universities.

[Hecate7]

On 8/4/2016 at 2:06 PM, bettername2come said:

I think Iris being mad at her mother over Joe is understandable to me because Joe, lying liar that he is, has always been a father to Iris and she's never had to doubt how much he cares for her, while she doesn't have a strong connection to Francine. Although I am really curious about how Joe maintained this "dead wife" lie for years and how many people knew the truth the whole time.

I'm disgusted by the whole "dead wife" plotline. So he's milked sympathy from Iris and everyone else over his tragic loss, single parenthood, etc... for DECADES, but Francine gets to pay the price for his deceit AND get blamed because "I have a brother???" OMG. Joe does not deserve to know he had a son--he was eager to throw Francine out and call her dead. He is LESS entitled to be his son's father than Francine is to be her daughter's mother.

OTOH, comic books really couldn't do girls or women right at all, and this is a charming struggle to get a handle on a narrative born of a universe of dead mothers and career girlfriends, and the odd cookie-baking Mom or villainous beauty queen. It'll be interesting to see what they manage to do with it.

[phoenics]

On 8/27/2016 at 4:19 PM, Hecate7 said:

GPA isn't that relevant in getting college scholarships in the US anymore. Just having a 4.0 won't automatically get you a scholarship. You have to know which ones to apply for and have someone to walk you through the process, because it's very complicated. You have to be National Merit and get a 100% on your PSAT to automatically get a full ride. There are some merit-based scholarships, but they are the same dollar amount they were in 1978. You can maybe buy one textbook with a State of Kansas Scholarship, for instance. (Once upon a time those were meant to cover your entire tuition, but it went up and they didn't). And Community College is cheaper, and obviously he went or he wouldn't be a mechanic. That also costs money, but it's supposed to be cheaper than mainstream universities.

A 4.0 alone might not do it, you'd need extra curriculars, but a student athlete with a 4.0 has a very good shot at getting a full ride somewhere. Even Morehouse College (notorious for NOT giving full rides) gives those - I just saw several this past year - and these were non-athletes.  Many schools would have given a full ride just for the athletics alone - like any school in the SEC.

I think your comments sound very specific to Kansas schools.  It probably varies by state.  Even the beleagured UNC system still gives full rides.  And Howard University has a program for full scholarships based on GPA and SAT scores.

[DearEvette]

Full rides do exist, but it isn't always about good grades.

If you are a desirable athlete being wooed by a Division 1 school -- You get tuition, room and board. 

Most school aid comes from three sources: School aid, State aid and Federal aid.  All three of these have different criteria and guidelines.  State and Federal tend to be the most restrictive in criteria.  Also some aid is purely need based, some if purely merit based,  and some is a complex calculation of the two.

Many schools offer tuition remission or have tuition exchange agreements.  If your parent works there (or at a partner school in an exchange agreement) , you go to the school for free as long as you meet the regular admission criteria.

Some schools offer special programs to reach out to smart need based students who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford school.  For instance there is at least one Ivy league school that will give a full ride to a student who graduates at valedictorian or salutatorian level from their school, with at least 3.5 gpa  as long as their family falls within a very specific low income range.  Stuff like that.

There is another school that offers a staggering amount, that includes a stipend,  based on a student fitting a specific profile (what that profile is, is kept secret since the scholarship is donated money by a rich donor family) and it is neither need nor merit based.  So technically a very mediocre graded student whose family has a ton of money could get it.

There is also aid based on the major you are entering.  Some schools offer full rides if you go into nursing or teaching or even loan forgiveness.  If you enter the ROTC programs at school you can get scholarships plus stipends.  And any combination of these could also lead to full rides.

Edited September 4, 2016 by DearEvette

[phoenics]

7 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Full rides do exist, but it isn't always about good grades.

If you are a desirable athlete being wooed by a Division 1 school -- You get tuition, room and board. 

Most school aid comes from three sources: School aid, State aid and Federal aid.  All three of these have different criteria and guidelines.  State and Federal tend to be the most restrictive in criteria.  Also some aid is purely need based, some if purely merit based,  and some is a complex calculation of the two.

Many schools offer tuition remission or have tuition exchange agreements.  If your parent works there (or at a partner school in an exchange agreement) , you go to the school for free as long as you meet the regular admission criteria.

Some schools offer special programs to reach out to smart need based students who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford school.  For instance there is at least one Ivy league school that will give a full ride to a student who graduates at valedictorian or salutatorian level from their school, with at least 3.5 gpa  as long as their family falls within a very specific low income range.  Stuff like that.

There is another school that offers a staggering amount, that includes a stipend,  based on a student fitting a specific profile (what that profile is, is kept secret since the scholarship is donated money by a rich donor family) and it is neither need nor merit based.  So technically a very mediocre graded student whose family has a ton of money could get it.

There is also aid based on the major you are entering.  Some schools offer full rides if you go into nursing or teaching or even loan forgiveness.  If you enter the ROTC programs at school you can get scholarships plus stipends.  And any combination of these could also lead to full rides.

Agreed - was mostly disputing the assertion that seemed to claim that Jackson might not have been able to find aid due to his injury.  It's just not completely true - if he was as bright as he seemed with a 4.0, then he could have gotten a pretty big ride (partial if not 100%) and then he could have done workstudy to fill in the rest of the gaps.

I get what the writers were going for, but still think it was a stretch.  They made Jackson have a 4.0 to dispel any racial issues, but then ignored what that might have afforded him at the same time.  Several state schools (especially HBCUs) would have gladly given him a full ride.  But perhaps we can argue that he didn't know about those schools or opportunities.  That actually happens to a ton of really decent students and they end up falling through the cracks.  You don't know what you don't know.

[Hecate7]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

Agreed - was mostly disputing the assertion that seemed to claim that Jackson might not have been able to find aid due to his injury.  It's just not completely true - if he was as bright as he seemed with a 4.0, then he could have gotten a pretty big ride (partial if not 100%) and then he could have done workstudy to fill in the rest of the gaps.

I get what the writers were going for, but still think it was a stretch.  They made Jackson have a 4.0 to dispel any racial issues, but then ignored what that might have afforded him at the same time.  Several state schools (especially HBCUs) would have gladly given him a full ride.  But perhaps we can argue that he didn't know about those schools or opportunities.  That actually happens to a ton of really decent students and they end up falling through the cracks.  You don't know what you don't know.

Workstudy isn't what you think it is. It's a cap on your earnings based on matching funds from businesses. A "workstudy" job isn't time you study and are paid to do so, it's time during which you serve lunch or shelve books or guide tours through a museum or whatever, (and don't study), and your hourly wage is half paid by the business and half paid by your workstudy grant. When that grant is used up, you lose your job and have to find a new one. It doesn't fill any gaps any more than working as a hotel maid or at McDonald's. The fact remains that 4.0 by itself won't get you a full ride in most cases, and he'd have to already be in-state where those "several state schools" offer free rides to people with 4.0s even if all their extracurriculars were athletics and they no longer have the ability to do those activities.

Jackson's injury removed the reason for most schools' interest in him. It is perfectly realistic that his 4.0 did not compensate for the loss of those abilities. Obviously he paid for some sort of school, because he's a mechanic now. Not sure how realistic it is that he'd be able to afford those fees, either--Junior colleges and Vo-techs are not cheap.