S03.E03: Blood And Fear

[jhlipton]

Question: does Nicole Beharie have chemistry with everyone? Crane of course, and Agent Reynolds. Jenny, Joe Corbin, and now also Pandora and the killers she chases down and often shoots. Whenever Abbie interacts with another character, the scenes pop and the dialogue feels very natural and effective. It's probably just a reflection of her strength as an actor.

 

After about 5 minutes, I told my wife that I'm a bit ambivalent about SH being cancelled, if it means bigger and better roles for Beharie. She is a joy to watch as she conveys all her thoughts without a word.

But I really don't want it cancelled!

 

And slapping Jack the Ripper on the thing doesn't make it fresher, especially with the writing contortions necessary to make it work for Crane's past and it still didn't really fit the Ripper's history. It all just felt lazy.

 

Yeah, they really didn't do a good job tying the MoTW to Jack the Ripper. Both Star Trek and Grimm were smart enough to realize that JtR had a thing against women, not some random "bloodlust". The Whitechapel murders were precise and methodical -- most theories point to a doctor of one type or amother as the killer.

 

 

So malaria was the colonial version of iocane powder?

 

That wasn't the only (or even most egregious) use of biological warfare in he Americas. Google "smallpox blankets" and be prepared to be sickened.

 

Making the object of desire such an empty page - if she'd been a bipedal mannequin with "HUMAN" on its t-shirt in helvetica like the labels in Repo Man, i couldn't have been less invested in what happened to her - was either a sad reflection on the producers' use of pretty, poorly-drawn women as plot points or a brilliant commentary on the previous producers' use of pretty, poorly-drawn women as plot points. As long as I'm being swept along with happy endorphins, I'm going to go with brilliant.

It partially worked for me because it was in keeping with the trope of the nice guy who actually sucks, because he's never going to see the pretty girl he pines for as anything other than an empty vessel for all his warped issues. Unfortunately it was also in keeping with a problem I've had with all actual and potential victims this season in that I didn't care about them. Writers! Don't make me miss season two! I mean it!!!

It worked for me too, because she was just someone who owed the dude affection, and if he didn't get what he was owed, the b**h would pay. I did care about her though -- she wasn't cruel or malicious, she just didn't notice him. She shouldn't have to suffer for his dementia.

 

 

I've only seen her in one thing, an old indie movie called Wristcutters, which I liked a lot.

 

Isn't that a great film? I stumbled on by accident but loved it to pieces. The smile at the end warmed the cockles of my cold, dead heart!

 

================================================================

 

Of course Thomas Jefferson was against coffee breaks.  Slaves don't get breaks!

[Julia]

There wasn't one point during viewing where I thought about Betsy Ross. It was only after the end that I even noticed her absence. I noticed when I wondered why the flashbacks in the episode enhanced the story rather than sucking energy out of the narrative as was the case in the first two episodes. It wasn't just the lack of Betsy, it was that they seemed brief and to the point in comparison, so therefore less intrusive. Maybe if they stopped trying so hard to charm us with showcases for her ... charms and concentrated on making the scenes work as a small part of a larger story. More actual humour, greater brevity,  less "behold the awesomeness of Betsy, Isn't she awesome?" 

 

It partially worked for me because it was in keeping with the trope of the nice guy who actually sucks, because he's never going to see the pretty girl he pines for as anything other than an empty vessel for all his warped issues. Unfortunately it was also in keeping with a problem I've had with all actual and potential victims this season in that I didn't care about them. Writers! Don't make me miss season two! I mean it!!!

It worked for me too, because she was just someone who owed the dude affection, and if he didn't get what he was owed, the b**h would pay. I did care about her though -- she wasn't cruel or malicious, she just didn't notice him. She shouldn't have to suffer for his dementia.

 

Oh, it worked for me three, and for those reasons. I just went back and forth over whether it bothered me that the woman he was projecting his issues onto wasn't ever made into anything like a real person. I think live humans should not be murdered in principle, but let's face it, the bodies pile up like cord wood on this show, and after a while, the impact is "Oh look, the monster killed somebody." The stakes are a little higher for me if I have some vague sense of the person in danger, and I didn't get that with this woman. 

 

Eventually, though, I decided to look at it optimistically, and figure that they didn't make her anything more than Generic Pretty Girl in the Elevator™ because it was all about what was going on in his head, and for all he actually knew about her, she might just as well have been any Generic Pretty Girl in the Elevator™, and just as random a victim as any of the others were. Which amused me, because last season was an epic tantrum of one man trying to convince us that the Generic Pretty Girl in the Elevator™ was totally awesome.

 

Should I say that I'm only talking about the fictional deaths of fictional people here? I'm a little less cold-blooded about actual live humans.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Julia

[crowswork]

Great casting. Joe really looks like he could be Corbin's son. Every time I see him - I actually checked to see if he was Clancy's son.

[Miss Dee]

I agree; we only saw the blonde lady from the killer's POV. It would make sense that she would come across as a object rather than a live person.

I'm not sure that was deliberate though. I wish we could have had an interrogation scene with Abbie so she would come across as a person; then it would have been apparent that the objectification from the killer was meant to be deliberate.

LOVED the look between Abbie and Ichabod when she told him that "American" sounded good on him. If that had happened exactly the same way between Castle and Beckett in early Season 3, there'd have been 30 pages on TWoP about it by Friday and endless media speculation. Not to mention we'd all be 75% convinced by now (excitedly or angrily) that an endgame romance was in the works. *sigh*

[DeLurker]

I don't expect this to be a popular post, but am I the only one confused by NB's performance this year? Her line readings seem weird, and she's just ice cold with everyone. Lots of eye rolling and sneering. Maybe I'm projecting some shit based on behind the scenes drama, and imagining her being in a hostile workplace, but I feel like her warmth is gone.

 

I've interpreted that as Abbie being preoccuppied with trying to do her FBI job, which was the career path she was on when things got waylaid by Crane and Headless, getting her bearings again with Crane after his extended absence and with the start of the second tribulation. 

 

I was in "oh great - another Bustry Ross flashback" when Crane's memory started.  I was quite happy that she was not part of the show this ep.

[tennisgurl]

I have already watched Cranes rant at the beginning of the episode 3 times, and its still hilarious. The parts parts are Abbeys long suffering "here comes Jefferson" sigh, followed by everyone in line applauding, and Crane doing a fist pump. Classic.

 

I cannot state enough how much of an improvement Pandora is over last years bad guy mess.  

[CalamityBoPeep]

It was the blood LOSS and stabbing that was serious! Dude should have been in a hospital.

 

...

 

I am finding the interactions between Crane and Abbie really interesting this season. Crane seems so much more relaxed and comfortable. I mean, he still has that formality and stiffness from his time and upbringing, but around Abbie, he just seems so mellow and relaxed and content. Abbie, however, is not. She seems more reserved and she is obviously conflicted over Crane and his return. She had nine months doing her thing for herself and her future. Now Crane comes back, evil returns and she's back to square one. BUT what did Pandora say at the end of the episode - she fears losing Crane, fears fighting alone and BEING alone. That shot of Beharie's face at the end, where you knew that she is totally conflicted about Crane, about them, about the Witness obligations, about this person who she feels to close and connected to. It's not even shipping, it's just very interesting and a new dynamic that I see.

 

Loved this whole post!  

 

Crane being at home on the couch with his IV was kind of a WTF for me too.  In the scene in the garage, I believed he had been stabbed, but then I started questioning that, when he was at home.  He should have had stitches at least, if not surgery. (... and his shirt off, so we could see the... uh... dressing?)  As for the malaria virus, I expect it hadn't even had much time to replicate itself, and if he was stabbed and immediately had a lot of blood removed by the knife, I figured the virus itself probably went to the knife, so he might not end up even needing quinine.  But yeah... stabbing and blood loss should have resulted in a hospital stay.  His reaction to the IV and general befuddlement, when he woke up, seemed to indicate that he'd been out of it for some time.  No way a hospital would have let an unconscious patient recover at home.  They'd at least have wanted to measure his urine output.  

 

But hey, no Betsy Ross, so I can deal. Heh.

 

I am finding that the slower pacing of scenes at home, the after work vibe, with both of them, is really delightful.  We have all this activity going on around them... villains, battles, panic, struggling against the bureaucracy... but they get to come home and just chill and breathe, which I really enjoy.  Those character moments when they get a chance to talk and process just really make the show for me.  Like having a nice glass of wine after a long hard day.  Watching these two find their places and exploring their relationships, is lovely.  Other shows could learn from that.  (*cough* Once Upon a Time *cough*).

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

You Don't Know Jack (The Ripper)

Crane battles bureaucracy, mythology, and a haunted blade. 

[ZoqFotPik]

I understand how they can tell shape of a blade by the stab wounds, but how the hell did they know what the handle looked like?

[Free]

I cannot state enough how much of an improvement Pandora is over last years bad guy mess.

 

Definitely, a mysterious villain is always more interesting than a whiny brat with parental issues.

[WearyTraveler]

My take on the ·"I'm glad I found you again" line is that it relates to the tablet that Crane found in his grave.  It depicts the witnesses in Crane's time, with swords, IIRC.

 

I'm going to guess that we will see how these two witnesses have been fighting the Apocalypse since pretty much the beginning of time and how they are reborn every time they are needed.  Destined to fight this fight all the time.  We will see similar depictions of the Witnesses throughout history. I'm also going to guess that the stone storyline that Jenny and Joe are dealing with will tie into the Witnesses story.  It was used by the Witnesses in ancient Egypt and it's now come back to them.

 

Favorite parts of the episode for me were Jenny telling Abbie and Daniel to have a good day "agenting", Abbie saying "here comes Jefferson", and the fist pump.

 

I think there's too much episodic MotW right now and not enough overarching arc.  Hopefully they'll fix that soon.

[Helena Dax]

"Here comes Jefferson" was pure gold. It was hilarious to see Ichabod giving his  speech with his usual passion while Abbie was playing with her  phone, barely paying attention to him. I also loved that last scene with them, sweet and with fist bump  included, although Ichabod should have been in a hospital.

 

I'm really enjoying the scenes with Jenny and baby Corbin. He's way more interesting than the blond guy, she's awesome and I'm  pretty sure that plot  will  merge eventually with  plot A. 

 

I don't think Abbie's conflicted about Crane  or her work as a Witness. Her reaction when he said something about meeting her again made me think that she was remembering Pandora's words about being alone. And tbh, while  her job as a FBI agent is important, being a Witness is even  more important, just as it was more important than Crane's feelings about his family.  I can't see her  thinking "okay, maybe I should focus on my career now". 

 

I like Ichabod's new  love interest, I'm meh about Daniel  and I think the guy who tried to steal the Egyptian thing is very,  very hot.

[rainsmom]

I like Ichabod's new  love interest, I'm meh about Daniel  and I think the guy who tried to steal the Egyptian thing is very,  very hot.

Word. I also have little interest in the girl with the possible Corbin connection, but the guy who first stole the Shard? Serously hot. He can stay for a while. Or at least reoccur occasionally.

[HalcyonDays]

I don't think Abbie's conflicted about Crane  or her work as a Witness. Her reaction when he said something about meeting her again made me think that she was remembering Pandora's words about being alone.

 

I read elsewhere someone else's theory that everytime Ichabbie had a "moment", a flower would bloom on Pandora's tree. Because I am a sucker, I rewatched the Pandora parts of the first three episodes to confirm that.

 

Nope. But what I did discover...okay, we all know the tree's "nourishment" is fear. It's a Fear Tree. So any time a demon that Pandora released was able to pull fear out of these people, her tree (or a blossom) grew.

 

At the end of Blood and Fear, when Crane said "I am more grateful that we found each...one again." Okay, it could be initally misintrepreted as shipping (as I did). But I don't think it is.

 

He says that, then the show cuts to Abbie, and she looks - I don't know, like she had a disturbing revelation or something. That look I think was this. It was fear that Crane was back in her life. Because him being back in her life means that the demons will come back, the fighting as Witnesses comes back, the disruption of her life comes back. Fear that she can never "live the life she dreamed of". Right after that, we have the shot of the Pensieve, with Abbie's face swimming in the water. Then Pandora smiles, and a rose bloom opens.

 

Abbie is fearful. She's fearful of the implications that Crane's return brings to her. The tree needs fear. That fear in Abbie made the rose bloom. Does that make sense.

 

Like having a nice glass of wine after a long hard day.  Watching these two find their places and exploring their relationships, is lovely.

 

I like this. Season 1 and 2 reallt missed the personal moments. The bonding, even the downtime between the mains. That's why last years scenes with Jenny, Crane and Abbie in the bar were fun. We need the downtime too. I love it too!

[Watermelon]

I wonder is new thief a Mills. Maybe related to their dad and not their mom....Call me crazy, and I might be wrong, but that character could technically have been any race. Why pick a black girl who looks more like Jenny than Abbie does?

[CalamityBoPeep]

I understand how they can tell shape of a blade by the stab wounds, but how the hell did they know what the handle looked like?

 

Bwah!  Yes, we asked that exact question here!

 

My take on the ·"I'm glad I found you again" line is that it relates to the tablet that Crane found in his grave.  It depicts the witnesses in Crane's time, with swords, IIRC.

 

I'm going to guess that we will see how these two witnesses have been fighting the Apocalypse since pretty much the beginning of time and how they are reborn every time they are needed.  Destined to fight this fight all the time.  We will see similar depictions of the Witnesses throughout history. I'm also going to guess that the stone storyline that Jenny and Joe are dealing with will tie into the Witnesses story.  It was used by the Witnesses in ancient Egypt and it's now come back to them.

 

I love this theory.  From your fingers to the writers' ears, please. 

[Frozendiva]

The soliloquy was hilarious! As much as they've used similar rants, I never get tired of FiredUpCrane.

 

Citizenship, or lack thereof, shouldn't affect his hospital bill. (Now whether he has insurance is probably a whole other can of worms...) I have friends and family with green cards, which I'm assuming Crane must have, since they let him back into the country after his jaunt home, and their medical bills are no better or worse than mine.

 

 

As someone mentioned up thread, something about this episode gave me an MotW X-Files vibe. What The X-Files was able to do successfully, IMO, was to mix stand-alone episodes with mythology episodes. Last season they were too heavy on mythology and this season seems heavy on MotW, so I'll be interesting to see if they can find a good balance between the two. But so far I'm really enjoying this season, MotW and all. Possibly because I'm still in a "as long as she's gone, it's all good" post-Katerina honeymoon phase...

I hope that Crane got a very good fake ID and/or Green Card. He is an unusual sort, who doesn't really exist in this time. Not a US citizen, doesn't have a real job. No 'records'.  No valid birth certificate. A fake Social Security Number.  Which must be put in to the standard databases.  An unusual person, as he existed 200 years ago. Whatever fake ID he obtained, must be very good. He will need help from the friend who has a parent who works at Immigration.

[CooperTV]

I thought it was solid episode. I mean, shoehorning Jack the Ripper and other real life atrocities into the killer dagger legend was ridiculous but that's Sleepy Hollow in a nutshell.

 

Glad the writers addressed how Ichabod had the same experiences with the supernatural evil when he was a child as Abbie and Jenny did. It shows nicely their shared burden as the Witnesses and their shared mindset. The closing scene between Abbie and Ichabod was amazing and touching, and Abbie's desperation over Ichabod's life was heart-wrenching.

 

Still not sure about Joe and Jennie but at least this storyline is getting somewhere with the New Girl appearing. My first thought was that Corbin was friends with Abbie's and Jenny's father, and that they had the same goals in collecting mystical items and worked together. And then Papa Mills skipped the town, probably because he was on the run from the law or bad guys or a jerk or corrupt or all of the above. And Corbin decided to teach Jenny his (and Papa Mills's) ways, and Papa Mills taught the New Girl everything he knew.

 

Ichabod's rant was comedy gold, and Abbie was quietly amused by it in the corner was adorable. Ichabod's Fangirl and Abbie's Boss seem creepy to me, but I think it's the residual effect from having a omnipotent villain who could mind-control them or whatever,

 

I think Shannyn Sossamon is having a blast playing Pandora. And considering the she acts mostly at someone/or at the green screen, that's pretty impressive how menacing Pandora comes off.

 

(BTW, writers, malaria? Really? And how did Ichabod and co manage to develop resistance to malaria anyway? Oh well, it's Sleepy Hollow, times ten. Again).

[Miss Dee]

I've heard people fanwank that last one. HalcyonDays pointed out that strains of such diseases do exist in labs and the like. It's not hard to imagine the FBI having some or being able to procure some. Abbie can bull her way through it and she is friendly with the lab tech there from the first episode. Convince Ichabod to bat his baby blues at her as well, and there you go.

In addition to HalcyonDays pointing out that malaria is not all that dangerous nowadays, Ichabod in his ailing state at the end mentioned about soldiers developing resistance to such diseases throughout the war; presumably he was one of them and he reasoned he'd pull through if there was no other way to stop Knifey (TM the Game of Thrones boards).

Finally, people on other boards have pointed out that if a guy entered a hospital with a stab wound, ethically they would have to treat him first and ask questions later. Once he was stabilized, then they'd phone law enforcement. So if there was a friendly FBI agent on the scene to say," He's in my custody; release him to me once he's stable and send the bill to us", the hospital would probably leave it at that.

So while not plotted with the deftness of an Agatha Christie novel or anything (and that bit about the knife hilt *was* an error, unless someone caught something the rest of us missed), I'm comfortable believing the writers did try to reason most of this through.

Of course, these explanations depend on Abbie using her FBI resources in what are most probably unlawful ways.

Maybe that ties into the "crucial decision" she has to make about the FBI in episode 6.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Miss Dee

[CooperTV]

I've heard people fanwank that last one. HalcyonDays pointed out that strains of such diseases do exist in labs and the like. It's not hard to imagine the FBI having some or being able to procure some.

 

My issue is mostly that malaria doesn't work like that. I'll gladly hand-wave the way they took hold onto the malaria sample. But Ichabod could hardly have any resistance to malaria if he was from this century. And it's even more ridiculous than he could have any resistance to the new variety of plasmodium that had thousands of billions of genetic mutations in the past 250 years, not to mention it has several different species to its name that was discovered since XVIII century.

[Julia]

But malaria's not arsenic. If it worked, he had time to get to a doctor, and if it didn't, he was dead anyway.

[CooperTV]

But malaria's not arsenic. If it worked, he had time to get to a doctor, and if it didn't, he was dead anyway.

Completely off-topic and really nitpicking on my part, but it's still relevant that he claimed he has a resistance to it. Which is, shall we say, inaccurate description of his condition. I'd rather they skipped it entirely and said "oh well, he was treated for it along with his knife wound! Or something!". :)

[Miss Dee]

Maybe so. I'm not well-versed on the various ways disease can spread. In any case, I can see Ichabod choosing to inject himself with malaria if need be because his previous exposure offered him the best chance of survival, and that works for me as the writers trying to write a coherent plot.

[BestestAuntEver]

My issue is mostly that malaria doesn't work like that. I'll gladly hand-wave the way they took hold onto the malaria sample. But Ichabod could hardly have any resistance to malaria if he was from this century. And it's even more ridiculous than he could have any resistance to the new variety of plasmodium that had thousands of billions of genetic mutations in the past 250 years, not to mention it has several different species to its name that was discovered since XVIII century.

Pulls up a chair, the above sound rational logic is the exact reason I rarely watch medical shows.

[jhlipton]

I understand how they can tell shape of a blade by the stab wounds, but how the hell did they know what the handle looked like?

 

Count me in that group too.  It helps to have a large amount of PLOTonium on hand!

 

Word. I also have little interest in the girl with the possible Corbin connection, but the guy who first stole the Shard? Serously hot. He can stay for a while. Or at least reoccur occasionally.

 

Hot is in the eye of the beholder.  I have little interest in the male thief, but the girl can stay for as while.

[piperkat]

 

Completely off-topic and really nitpicking on my part, but it's still relevant that he claimed he has a resistance to it.

 

I think that almost makes it more believable--Ichabod wouldn't be familiar with genetics and evolution, and probably wouldn't be aware that the malaria of today isn't the same as the malaria of 250 years ago. I could see him legitimately believing that he was resistant, even if it's not true.

Now, it would have been nice if they acknowledged this somehow, with a throwaway "But I'm resistant!"/"Yeah, to Revolutionary malaria, but 21st century malaria is a bitch. Luckily, we have good drugs" exchange.  Maybe they did, and it was a victim of editing...? 

 

My weird little nitpick is on the timing--It looked like he injected himself just as he got stabbed, and I find it hard to believe that the tainted blood got from his hand/whatever to the stab wound in 5 seconds. Of course, we're talking about a magic knife, so nitpicking that might be pointless.

[Sparkling Beth]

 

Oh, and SH Casting department...If you are going to cast a young Crane, try to get the eye colour right. Tom Mison's eyes are very blue, and you can't miss that, so try to get a blue-eyed kid next time. Cause you know - eye colour doesn't change that much (naturally).

They could easily have slipped a pair of blue contacts on the kid.  Did you see the pictures of Johnny Depp as Whitey Bulger?  We all know Johnny has very dark brown eyes but his blue-eyed look as Bulger was very convincing thanks to the realistic colored contact lenses they have nowadays.

[CooperTV]

I think that almost makes it more believable--Ichabod wouldn't be familiar with genetics and evolution, and probably wouldn't be aware that the malaria of today isn't the same as the malaria of 250 years ago. I could see him legitimately believing that he was resistant, even if it's not true.

Now, it would have been nice if they acknowledged this somehow, with a throwaway "But I'm resistant!"/"Yeah, to Revolutionary malaria, but 21st century malaria is a bitch. Luckily, we have good drugs" exchange.  Maybe they did, and it was a victim of editing...?

 

Well, yeah, I would be fine with some BS excuse, that the treatment happened off-screen. Plus, since Crane had malaria 250 years ago, Plasmodium could just go into the dormant cycle and obviously still could be in his system! I hope no malaria mosquitoes in the area bit poor Crane!

 

My weird little nitpick is on the timing--It looked like he injected himself just as he got stabbed, and I find it hard to believe that the tainted blood got from his hand/whatever to the stab wound in 5 seconds. Of course, we're talking about a magic knife, so nitpicking that might be pointless.

 

I thought about it as well. It appears that the writers have no idea how incubation period works, either. Oh well...

Edited October 18, 2015 by CooperTV

[Julia]

Well, yeah, I would be fine with some BS excuse, that the treatment happened off-screen. Plus, since Crane had malaria 250 years ago, Plasmodium could just go into the dormant cycle and obviously still could be in his system! I hope no malaria mosquitoes in the area bit poor Crane!

 

I thought about it as well. It appears that the writers have no idea how incubation period works, either. Oh well...

 

Hey, the first time I saw this plot, the 'malaria' was a drug which caused a heritable trait. This is practically science compared to that.

[catrox14]

Re the brown-eyed Ichabod. I literally didn't even notice his eye color because it was kind of desaturated.

[Yolapukka]

 

Well, yeah, I would be fine with some BS excuse, that the treatment happened off-screen. Plus, since Crane had malaria 250 years ago, Plasmodium could just go into the dormant cycle and obviously still could be in his system! I hope no malaria mosquitoes in the area bit poor Crane!

 

 

I remember Abbie's dialogue indicating he was on some fairly potent stuff, which I took to mean as being treatment for the malaria exposure,  possible infection from the knife wound and most especially pain medication as well.  Ichabod's story about the colonial soldiers having resistance to malaria being key to particular victory just seemed like a story to me, intended to underline the specific blood-borne disease that had defeated the blade. It was definitely possible that he was saying he personally had shown prior resistance to the disease but that was not what I thought the main point of it was.

 

 

 

 

I think there was a time jump between the events in the garage and Abbie being at work later on that was clumsily handled. You can do a lot of hand-waving in a show about the supernatural, but it works better if you keep the real world references grounded. I don't think we were meant to think too hard about the logistics of Abbie getting medical care for Ichabod, getting him home, dealing with generic pretty-girl victim, doing paperwork, hanging out with Reynolds over a drink and then going home to sit with Ichabod, but I think it would have been good if there had been a clearer indication of a day or more going by. The best route to seamless storytelling isn't always show don't tell,  they should tell what they don't show.  I would have liked it if Abbie had said that she needed to take her housemate home from the hospital as a reason for clearing out so quickly once she'd swallowed her drink.

Edited October 18, 2015 by yuggapukka

[CooperTV]

Hey, the first time I saw this plot, the 'malaria' was a drug which caused a heritable trait.

Lol, this is amazing! :)

 

 

I remember Abbie's dialogue indicating he was on some fairly potent stuff, which I took to mean as being treatment for the malaria exposure,  possible infection from the knife wound most especially pain medication as well.

 

I thought she implied he was on the good drugs (he was really loopy). But your explanation is definitely better than the writers' effort with Ichabod babbling about malaria.

 

And I too found the editing at the end jarring. Abbie was devastated over Ichabod, Pandora was screwing with her mind, and BAM, suddenly random nightcap with Daniel! They could've spent this time of Ichabod's hospital visit (because dramatic!). I believe the same clumsy editing happened in the first episode of the season, when Jenny was hurt and everyone forgot about her completely.

[jhlipton]

Now, it would have been nice if they acknowledged this somehow, with a throwaway "But I'm resistant!"/"Yeah, to Revolutionary malaria, but 21st century malaria is a bitch. Luckily, we have good drugs" exchange.  Maybe they did, and it was a victim of editing...? .

 

Just me, but I'm glad they didn't.  That's hardly the most jarring part of the episode (to most folks, like me, "malaria" is "malaria" and it's perfectly fine that Ich is resistant).  The reconstructed knife handle was far more WTF!!!

[fantique]

My take on the ·"I'm glad I found you again" line is that it relates to the tablet that Crane found in his grave.  It depicts the witnesses in Crane's time, with swords, IIRC.

 

I'm going to guess that we will see how these two witnesses have been fighting the Apocalypse since pretty much the beginning of time and how they are reborn every time they are needed.  Destined to fight this fight all the time.  We will see similar depictions of the Witnesses throughout history. I'm also going to guess that the stone storyline that Jenny and Joe are dealing with will tie into the Witnesses story.  It was used by the Witnesses in ancient Egypt and it's now come back to them.

 

Favorite parts of the episode for me were Jenny telling Abbie and Daniel to have a good day "agenting", Abbie saying "here comes Jefferson", and the fist pump.

 

I think there's too much episodic MotW right now and not enough overarching arc.  Hopefully they'll fix that soon.

I think there is a theory that the witnesses get reincarnated and that when Crane said "found you again", because he was drugged his "previous self" resurfaced and recognised Abbie and that's why he said "again". What would be interesting is if Abbie is more self aware and remembers brutal ends to their cycle. Oh! And what if they are called the destroyers because one of their fights against evil caused a city/country/civilisation to collapse? Oh god this could be so interesting which is why I am expecting to be sorely disappointed.

 

Still not sure about Joe and Jennie but at least this storyline is getting somewhere with the New Girl appearing. My first thought was that Corbin was friends with Abbie's and Jenny's father, and that they had the same goals in collecting mystical items and worked together. And then Papa Mills skipped the town, probably because he was on the run from the law or bad guys or a jerk or corrupt or all of the above. And Corbin decided to teach Jenny his (and Papa Mills's) ways, and Papa Mills taught the New Girl everything he knew.

My first instinct was that Corbin was a part of an order and they all learned and taught the same methods. I think Papa, who is also the new villain they cast, mentored this girl and since he went rogue from their order, he wants the rock for reason x.

 

Completely off-topic and really nitpicking on my part, but it's still relevant that he claimed he has a resistance to it. Which is, shall we say, inaccurate description of his condition. I'd rather they skipped it entirely and said "oh well, he was treated for it along with his knife wound! Or something!". :)

I am not well versed in medicine, and biology was my weakest science. But the battle Crane mentioned actually happened. So at least that strain of malaria was one that can be resisted by the body.  

Edited October 19, 2015 by fantique

[vanarnd1]

I did like this episode overall but like others I do remain somewhat underwhelmed with the MOTW. Maybe it is because the people involved in the story have not really been sympathetic figures (even the guy who got killed was annoying).There are a lot of other interesting threads going on (Jenny and Joe, Pandora, learning more about Reynolds/Abbie, and Ichabbie of course) but it seems like they are going for more gradual storytelling as opposed to the faster pace and action of Season 1. I don't think that is a bad idea, but I do hope that the sense of urgency increases in the upcoming episodes.

[jhlipton]

I think there is a theory that the witnesses get reincarnated and that when Crane said "found you again", because he was drugged his "previous self" resurfaced and recognised Abbie and that's why he said "again". What would be interesting is if Abbie is more self aware and remembers brutal ends to their cycle. Oh! And what if they are called the destroyers because one of their fights against evil caused a city/country/civilisation to collapse? Oh god this could be so interesting which is why I am expecting to be sorely disappointed.

 

My first instinct was that Corbin was a part of an order and they all learned and taught the same methods. I think Papa, who is also the new villain they cast, mentored this girl and since he went rogue from their order, he wants the rock for reason x.  

 

 

I really think that when Crane said "again, he meant after 6 months, not some number of centuries.  Even better, he "found" his early Season 1 relationship with Abbie, when they could be easy with each other, and care for each other as comrades.  I doubt Abbie is aware of any previous life -- I haven't seen anything to support that.  I do see that she has a lot more to lose than Crane, which is why she's more apprehensive.

 

On one hand, I don't really want any family member to be the villain this season.  On the other hand, neither Jenny nor Abbie would let sentiment of MFD keep them from putting a monster down.  Abbie had a lot more feeling for Andy, but she never lost sight of the fact that he was dead.

[Bruinsfan]

I'm really liking the subplot with Jenny and Joe, even if it's not directly involved with the leads. It lets Jenny shine as a character in her own right and has her playing off a character she has a pseudo-familial connection with, who does not himself feel like as formulaic contrivance the way Hawley did. I'm also OK with Abbie's new boss and their attempts to navigate possible complications from their previous relationship. Really, Busty Ross is the only thing I don't like about this season, and that's a much, MUCH shorter list of complaints than in Season 2.

 

Question: does Nicole Beharie have chemistry with everyone? Crane of course, and Agent Reynolds. Jenny, Joe Corbin, and now also Pandora and the killers she chases down and often shoots. Whenever Abbie interacts with another character, the scenes pop and the dialogue feels very natural and effective. It's probably just a reflection of her strength as an actor. 

Not everyone, the show's stabs at creating sexual tension between Abbie and Designated Bad Boy Love Interest last season went over like a lead balloon. But she did manage to have better chemistry with Katia Winter than Mison did, so in general she can pop with just about anyone.

 

Yeah, my family and I joke that people in countries that are not used to it imagine Malaria to be what Ebola is. Just getting the medication is enough, Malaria is only fatal in developing countries because the people who die from it don't get medical attention. It's very rare people that live in urban settings to experience anything worse than being put out of commission for a few days, a week max.

It's not necessarily a walk in the park, though. My dad had malaria as a kid, which caused recurring high fevers that destroyed his tooth enamel. (He had full dentures by his early 20s.)

[fantique]

It's not necessarily a walk in the park, though. My dad had malaria as a kid, which caused recurring high fevers that destroyed his tooth enamel. (He had full dentures by his early 20s.)

Oh yeah, it's not a walk in the park. But it's not this rare and fatal affliction some people seem to believe it is. Almost everyone in my family has had it more than twice. The fever is definitely one of the most worrying symptoms especially when it goes a long time untreated. But if you are already on the look out, over the counter medication (at least in countries where it's more common) stops it pretty quickly. Especially if it's not the first time. Of course it can have bad consequences but most of the time, if the person lives in an urban setting and is seen to by medical professionals quickly enough, it's not The Worst. The fatalities in developing countries almost always come from the fact that they didn't/couldn't get medical attention in time.

I really think that when Crane said "again, he meant after 6 months, not some number of centuries.  Even better, he "found" his early Season 1 relationship with Abbie, when they could be easy with each other, and care for each other as comrades.  I doubt Abbie is aware of any previous life -- I haven't seen anything to support that.  I do see that she has a lot more to lose than Crane, which is why she's more apprehensive.

 

On one hand, I don't really want any family member to be the villain this season.  On the other hand, neither Jenny nor Abbie would let sentiment of MFD keep them from putting a monster down.  Abbie had a lot more feeling for Andy, but she never lost sight of the fact that he was dead.

Yeah...but this is a genre show with an ancient sumerian showing figures meant to look like the heroes... let a girl dream. Edited October 19, 2015 by fantique

[Snookums]

Did Corbin send her after it? Is it possible he's somehow still alive?

 

 

Oh, please, PTB, send Corbin back to Sleepy Hollow with an attitude and green ribbon around his neck!

 

It took me forever to catch up with this one but loved what everybody else did: "Oh, Damn!", Crane's rant, how he's apparently got another gal on the string who was clearly ready to offer up the idea of a green card marriage right then and there, Pandora being all "oooooo....you're alooooonnnnne... got go water my fear tree, peace out!", the fisty bump, no Boobsy Ross!

 

I do have to call some time on how fast and loose the show is playing with the FBI, however. How did Agent Mills account for discharging her weapon three times? Even if nobody called the cops about gunshots, a body falling out a five story window, hitting a car and strolling off, her boss knows she's working this case. And how is he "a few years ahead of her" on the career track if they were in school together? I'm having a hard enough time writing off that they graduated less than a year ago and she's got her own damn office that he's the boss of! And of course the ever unquestioned "this is my illegal immigrant friend who likes to trample across crime scenes" thing with her and her ever present escort. NOBODY she works with thinks this is strange? Just a little bit?

 

Flu would have been more plausible to me (and they earlier referenced the Spanish flu).

 

 

They damn well have better not unleashed Spanish Flu on the general populace! It's incredibly contagious and has a hellaciously high fatality rate. Malaria is only blood borne, not airborne, so the chances of an uncontrolled outbreak among the citizens at large was much smaller.

Oh, and also? Jack the Ripper's murders were anything but bloodless, and I believe Eton has TERMS, not semesters. 

[jhlipton]

Yeah...but this is a genre show with an ancient sumerian showing figures meant to look like the heroes... let a girl dream.

 

Dream on, dream on, dream on, dream until your dreams come true!

[theatremouse]

I think there is a theory that the witnesses get reincarnated and that when Crane said "found you again", because he was drugged his "previous self" resurfaced and recognised Abbie and that's why he said "again". What would be interesting is if Abbie is more self aware and remembers brutal ends to their cycle. Oh! And what if they are called the destroyers because one of their fights against evil caused a city/country/civilisation to collapse?

So they're the Avatar? ;)

[Dobian]

I thought it was better than the first episode, which I thought was kind of weak.  Looks like they're already pairing off the main characters with a significant other this season.  Why Crane didn't end up in the hospital with a serious and potentially mortal knife wound to the gut is beyond me.  He needed surgery, lol.  Abbie did say an ambulance was coming but you never saw him actually being taken to a hospital.  What did Abbie do, stick a bandage on him and throw him on the couch?  Or maybe the wound magically healed because they killed the current Ripper, though that wasn't conveyed if that was the case. 

 

The whole Ripper premise didn't fit really well with the real Jack the Ripper, who was a cunning an calculating killer.  It's kind of hard to be discreet and function without arousing suspicion when you have a large knife permanently attached to your hand, lol.  And just because Pandora gives someone the knife, it doesn't mean he's going to be great at murdering.  He might be a total idiot who gives himself away after the first assault.  It seemed like all the Rippers in the long line were largely successful until they got diseased.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Dobian

[theatremouse]

It played oddly to me and I wonder how significant a time jump there was perhaps supposed to have been between "ambulance is on his way" vs delirious on couch.

[Clanstarling]

My take on the ·"I'm glad I found you again" line is that it relates to the tablet that Crane found in his grave.  It depicts the witnesses in Crane's time, with swords, IIRC.

 

I'm going to guess that we will see how these two witnesses have been fighting the Apocalypse since pretty much the beginning of time and how they are reborn every time they are needed.  Destined to fight this fight all the time.  We will see similar depictions of the Witnesses throughout history. I'm also going to guess that the stone storyline that Jenny and Joe are dealing with will tie into the Witnesses story.  It was used by the Witnesses in ancient Egypt and it's now come back to them.

I like this theory. Mine was much more mundane - just that they'd been apart physically and emotionally after the events of the last season and got their groove back. 

 

I wonder is new thief a Mills. Maybe related to their dad and not their mom....Call me crazy, and I might be wrong, but that character could technically have been any race. Why pick a black girl who looks more like Jenny than Abbie does?

I totally think you are on the right track here, and I don't think race is a limiting factor in this case. I thought Jessie Camacho was a latina, but that doesn't exclude her from being black as well. Do we know Papa Mills is black? The pictures Abbie took were from behind, and I don't think I noticed one way or another. In either case, you don't need to resemble your half-siblings. Mine looked like our mother, but I looked like my father. We didn't even look related.

 

I really think that when Crane said "again, he meant after 6 months, not some number of centuries.  Even better, he "found" his early Season 1 relationship with Abbie, when they could be easy with each other, and care for each other as comrades.  I doubt Abbie is aware of any previous life -- I haven't seen anything to support that.  I do see that she has a lot more to lose than Crane, which is why she's more apprehensive.

Much better explanation of what I was trying to say.

 

I didn't notice Betsy Ross wasn't in the episode until I came to the forums. 

Edited October 20, 2015 by clanstarling

[jhlipton]

I didn't notice Betsy Ross wasn't in the episode until I came to the forums. 

 

So much this.

[sinkwriter]

From Sarah's recap/review:

 

 

Classic Sleepy Hollow: take what we know about a historical figure and subvert it to fit the show's brief, without playing too loose with provable fact. This true-crime dork loved it and I kind of hope they bring in other notorious unsolved crimes.

 

Sarah, given that you're such a true-crime buff, I thought for sure that them playing too fast and loose with the Jack the Ripper stories would bother you. I'm really surprised that you liked it!