Hawaii 5-0 In the Media

[Vera]

The Variety article states that CBS's final offer to Daniel and Grace was about 10-15% lower than what Alex and Scott are making. So how much lower were their salaries for the past 7 years?!

Something else that's bugging me. Salaries at the beginning of the show would have been based off their work till then (so their popularity, critical acclaim, etc)? In 2010, Grace had just completed a four season run of Battlestar Galactica, Daniel had done six seasons of Lost, Alex had one season of Moonlight. Scott had completed a reoccurring stint on Entourage (?) and had been in a number of movies. Wouldn't Daniel and Grace have started out making more that Alex at least? How does this work?  

[BW Manilowe]

20 minutes ago, Vera said:

The Variety article states that CBS's final offer to Daniel and Grace was about 10-15% lower than what Alex and Scott are making. So how much lower were their salaries for the past 7 years?!

Something else that's bugging me. Salaries at the beginning of the show would have been based off their work till then (so their popularity, critical acclaim, etc)? In 2010, Grace had just completed a four season run of Battlestar Galactica, Daniel had done six seasons of Lost, Alex had one season of Moonlight. Scott had completed a reoccurring stint on Entourage (?) and had been in a number of movies. Wouldn't Daniel and Grace have started out making more that Alex at least? How does this work?  

Alex also had another failed, 1 season series at CBS, Three Rivers. He played an organ transplant surgeon (which I think inspired his work with the Taylor's Gift charity &, I think, other organ donation/transplantation charities/organizations). Right now I can't remember which show came first (Three Rivers or Moonlight). But all 3 of his series began in consecutive years, Fall 2008-2010 (when H50 started).

Also, Scott's stint in Entourage wasn't over until the hiatus between S1 & S2 of H50.

Usually who gets paid what depends, among other things, where they're billed in the show's cast credits (plus a whole bunch of other things the actor's agents, managers, lawyers, &--in this case--the network work out among themselves; people like Peter Lenkov don't have anything to do with the financial negotiations of getting an actor on a show, like H50). If you're billed first, you get the most money even if others lower in the credits than you have more acting credits than you. Plus, it depends on if your role is a "regular" role (you're presumably in every ep, or you're popular enough to be given the perks of "regular" status) or if your role is recurring (you're only in a certain number of episodes per season & not all of them).

Edited July 3, 2017 by BW Manilowe
To add a comment.

[ganesh]

The real tragedy here is that we'll probably never see the San Francisco Treat again. 

[BW Manilowe]

Not that it's gonna work, but someone's put a petition to Les Moonves, who runs CBS, on change.org in an attempt to get Grace P. & DDK back on the show, with the equal pay they're asking for.

https://www.change.org/p/leslie-moonves-keep-daniel-dae-kim-grace-park-as-part-of-the-cast-on-hawaii-five-o-on-cbs?recruiter=607748576&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=share_for_starters_page

[Just my 2 cents]

5 hours ago, LizDC said:

Really? I thought Alex's interviews after Catherine took off seemed a little interesting when he was talking about Steve being done with her forever. Of course, subsequent Lenkov interviews basically said Catherine might come back some day and she'll always be a part of the H50 family.  What happened? 

I think Alex just meant that the way they wrote the character of Steve with trust and abandonment issues he would be an idiot to take back a woman that has left him a couple of times and has lied to him a couple of times.  It would make the man that's supposed to be such a tough guy  and Navy SEAL look weak.  Of course she has a big fan base and PL likes to tease people.  He posted a pic of her on Instagram or Twitter back in February or March getting her fans excited and her haters angry thinking she might show up on the season finale and then no Catherine.  When he does bring her back she barely has any screen time because the cast is too big and she only appears a few times each season.  Of course that could also be what the actress wants.  She may not want to invest in being on the island for long periods of time.  PL also gave a Parade interview in March or April for the crossover episode and alluded that Catherine "kinda" chose to end the relationship as if to almost put the blame on the character.  He just likes to play people.  Only time will tell if he will bring Catherine back.  It doesn't seem like the cast has a problem with MB or at least part of the cast, but only those who have firsthand knowledge know for sure. 

44 minutes ago, ganesh said:

The real tragedy here is that we'll probably never see the San Francisco Treat again. 

I was waiting for someone to mention this.  LOL!!

[BW Manilowe]

6 minutes ago, ally said:

I think Alex just meant that the way they wrote the character of Steve with trust and abandonment issues he would be an idiot to take back a woman that has left him a couple of times and has lied to him a couple of times.  It would make the man that's supposed to be such a tough guy  and Navy SEAL look weak.  Of course she has a big fan base and PL likes to tease people.  He posted a pic of her on Instagram or Twitter back in February or March getting her fans excited and her haters angry thinking she might show up on the season finale and then no Catherine.  When he does bring her back she barely has any screen time because the cast is too big and she only appears a few times each season.  Of course that could also be what the actress wants.  She may not want to invest in being on the island for long periods of time.  PL also gave a Parade interview in March or April for the crossover episode and alluded that Catherine "kinda" chose to end the relationship as if to almost put the blame on the character.  He just likes to play people.  Only time will tell if he will bring Catherine back.  It doesn't seem like the cast has a problem with MB or at least part of the cast, but only those who have firsthand knowledge know for sure. 

I was waiting for someone to mention this.  LOL!!

I actually also mentioned not seeing Abby Dunn (or Chin's niece, Sara, or Kono's husband, Adam) anymore in the next to last paragraph of the next to last post on the previous page. Only I referred to her (& all of them) using the character name, not an irrelevant (in my opinion) nickname. Perhaps that's (partly) why my post was missed.

[Just my 2 cents]

3 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

I actually also mentioned not seeing Abby Dunn (or Chin's niece, Sara, or Kono's husband, Adam) anymore in the next to last paragraph of the next to last post on the previous page. Only I referred to her (& all of them) using the character name, not an irrelevant (in my opinion) nickname. Perhaps that's (partly) why my post was missed.

Yes, that is exactly why you were left off of my post.  If I offended you, I certainly did not mean to offend.  However, just as I cannot tell from your post if I offended you, you probably did not understand my post since I did not elaborate and took it the wrong way (I was on my lunch break and did a quick post.  I was bored!).  I was actually waiting for someone on this board to refer to the actress Julie Benz, that plays the character of Abby Dunn, Chin's girlfriend, as the San Francisco Treat, instead of one of the many other names I just mentioned of which she could have been referred.  The nickname is pretty much expected since most of the women on H50 walk around the show at one time or the other in a triangle top bikini or cutoff jeans with the pockets hanging down.  I think Jenna, Rachel, Lori, and that anthropologist or archeologist that Danny dated have been the only women not in swim wear.  I haven't seen Abby in any, they just put her in a sheet or bra.  H50 makes a mockery of women and professional women and it can be annoying.  I've found a way to joke about which is how I deal with a lot of things that I find frustrating.  I also would not refer to San Francisco Treat as a nickname.  I'm not a blonde hair, blue-eyed woman and I must admit I envy Julie Benz's figure, but it has to be annoying for any woman to be called that especially a serious Hollywood actress with her credentials.

Edited July 3, 2017 by ally

[LotusFlower]

16 hours ago, pinkglove said:

Having said that, I also don't agree with calling Grace Park and DDK "victims". I mean, I understand that they felt they're not treated equally and maybe saw better opportunities elsewhere - that's fine. But having in mind how much they probably make, I wouldn't spend that much time wondering about how awful it is to be in their situation compared to white male boys :) Sure, it would be nice if they were given equal payment, because apart from them staying, it would set an example. But victims are probably elsewhere and this 10% doesn't matter all that much if you look at the bigger picture.

They're victims of racism in show business, and that deserves attention just like in any other industry.  I get it - they have fame and fortune, so it's easy to not feel sorry for them, but it doesn't mean they weren't wronged.  

Btw, they didn't refuse a 10% raise - they were holding out for equal pay (with Alex and Scott), and turned down CBS' final offer of 10-15% below Alex and Scott's salary.  So it's unknown how much they were making before.

[seacliffsal]

I will miss DDK.  I would rather they cut Jerry's (?) character as in my view he doesn't add anything to the cast or the story lines and give his salary to DDK (and Grace-I just found her boring at times so don't love the character as much as DDK's).

[BW Manilowe]

5 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I will miss DDK.  I would rather they cut Jerry's (?) character as in my view he doesn't add anything to the cast or the story lines and give his salary to DDK (and Grace-I just found her boring at times so don't love the character as much as DDK's).

It's Jorge (Garcia)--he plays Jerry (Jerry Ortega) & was also a fellow cast member of DDK's on Lost.

[BW Manilowe]

DDK Discusses His H50 Departure on His Facebook Page

[Evagirl]

Scott Caan's character has been MIA in several shows and nothing was that different without him except the bromance between he and Steve.  Likewise, the Steve McGarrett character was MIA a couple of seasons ago when the actor was ailing and life went on.  Chin Ho and Kono took up the slack.

Agree with the comment that they could loose a couple of "extra" folks and pay DDK and GP what they're worth.   The show could loose Jerry and the fans would never feel it.  I think they only added the black guy to bring more diversity to the cast because he doesn't add much of anything else.  They could cut him too and I'd be fine with that.  I will definitely feel the lost of DDK and GP though.  

It will be interesting to see how the show will move forward.  Will they simply replace the characters with new actors?  Will they have them die in some kind of off-screen shoot-out drama or car crash?  Whatever they decide, I really admire the was DDK handled his leaving.  He didn't trash the show, the producers or anyone else.  I've seen him on talk shows and he really is a nice guy. 

[Raja]

5 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

forward.  Will they simply replace the characters with new actors?  Will they have them die in some kind of off-screen shoot-out drama or car crash?  Whatever they decide, I really admire the was DDK handled his leaving.  He didn't trash the show, the producers or anyone else.  I've seen him on talk shows and he really is a nice guy. 

They already set it up. Officer Kono is going out to work against the sexual trafficking of children and LT. Kelly is going to San Francisco to set up a 5-0 type task force there.

[Evagirl]

Just now, Raja said:

They already set it up. Officer Kono is going out to work against the sexual trafficking of children and LT. Kelly is going to San Francisco to set up a 5-0 type task force there.

What?!!!  Wow, I'm impressed.  You're really in the know..

Well, at least that leaves a window open for a return.  Those plot lines really played into the producers hand and worked in their favor because both ideas are believable and realistic to the show.  

[LizDC]

TV Line - Five-0: Daniel Dae Kim Opens Up About 'Sad' Exit, 'Honor' of Playing Chin Ho

[BW Manilowe]

3 hours ago, Evagirl said:

What?!!!  Wow, I'm impressed.  You're really in the know..

Well, at least that leaves a window open for a return.  Those plot lines really played into the producers hand and worked in their favor because both ideas are believable and realistic to the show.  

They set up a potential Chin departure in the next to last episode of last season, where Ingo Rademacher's recurring, originally bad/anti-Five-0 character offered Chin a job running a Five-0 type task force in San Francisco. As for Kono, in the last scene of the season finale she was seen on a plane with a flight attendant, or perhaps flight crew member, welcoming everyone on board the flight which was going to Las Vegas with continuing service to Carson City, NV (which doesn't even have a commercial passenger airport). Kono was going to Carson City to continue tracking down the sex trafficking ring involving teenage girls that Five-0 battled in both the finale & an earlier episode last season. When Five-0 dealt with the part of the ring that was in Honolulu, they were shown a map, on the magic table, showing other cities where there were active sex trafficking rings; Carson City was 1 of them.

All it took to be "in the know" about the potential exits that became reality for the Chin & Kono characters was to watch those 2 episodes of the show, read recaps of them, or know somebody who watched & could tell you about them.

Edited July 5, 2017 by BW Manilowe
To add a comment.

[ganesh]

3 hours ago, Raja said:

LT. Kelly is going to San Francisco to set up a 5-0 type task force there.

With the San Francisco Treat! (I'm so sorry I can't help it). 

[blackwing]

I find this news appalling.  Why shouldn't Grace Park and Daniel Dae Kim have received equal pay?  Both of them were arguably more well known than Alex O'Loughlin when the show began.  Hawaii Five 0 made news when it premiered because 50% of the lead credited cast were Asian.  That is a rarity on a drama in today's TV age.  When Masi Oka joined, 3/5 of the credited cast were Asian.  Now, all three are gone.  And two of them are gone pretty much because of money.

Why would they be so willing to lose both of these actors?  Their characters are integral to the show.  Why couldn't they have cut the thoroughly useless character of Jerry Garcia and divided Jerry Garcia's salary between Grace and Daniel?  Jerry Garcia adds pretty much nothing to the show.  Every scene he is in feels like they shoehorned him in because they need to find something for him to do.

I realise that people "in the know" were speculating that both Kono and Chin would be leaving the show, given the way their storyline went towards the end of last season.  But many others who were "in the know" were saying it was just a semi-cliffhanger designed to create suspense, there'd be no question that both of them would be back.

How awful to have a show set in Hawaii with no Asian characters.  From 60% of the cast to ZERO.  And yes, I am aware of the litany of supporting characters who are basically glorified extras.  I imagine it's hard enough being an Asian-American or Asian-Canadian actor in Hollywood.  Parts are hard to come by, and then when you get them, they tell you that you are going to be paid less because... well, because.  You accept it because you have the chance to be a lead on a show.  You toil away for seven years and realise that there's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be paid as much as the other two actors, because you are part of the main lead cast just as much as they are.  And then you get told that in fact, you will make 10% less.  For no good reason.  It's hard not to view this with some element of racism.

1 minute ago, ganesh said:

With the San Francisco Treat! (I'm so sorry I can't help it). 

Although I have always appreciated the ring of "San Francisco Treat" and the nostalgia of the Rice a Roni jingle... I can't help but still call her by the name "San Francisco Police Lady".  I like that moniker because it's just so bland and uninteresting.  Like her.  I'm assuming that with Chin gone, that she will also be gone.  Buh bye.

[Evagirl]

1 hour ago, BW Manilowe said:

They set up a potential Chin departure in the next to last episode of last season, where Ingo Rademacher's recurring, originally bad/anti-Five-0 character offered Chin a job running a Five-0 type task force in San Francisco. As for Kono, in the last scene of the season finale she was seen on a plane with a flight attendant, or perhaps flight crew member, welcoming everyone on board the flight which was going to Las Vegas with continuing service to Carson City, NV (which doesn't even have a commercial passenger airport). Kono was going to Carson City to continue tracking down the sex trafficking ring involving teenage girls that Five-0 battled in both the finale & an earlier episode last season. When Five-0 dealt with the part of the ring that was in Honolulu, they were shown a map, on the magic table, showing other cities where there were active sex trafficking rings; Carson City was 1 of them.

All it took to be "in the know" about the potential exits that became reality for the Chin & Kono characters was to watch those 2 episodes of the show, read recaps of them, or know somebody who watched & could tell you about them.

I don't read anymore into a show that what's shown.  I don't try to figure out anything beyond that point because it's just entertainment to me.  So for the folks who connected the dots - my hat is still off to you.  I am not "in the know", so I thank you for enlightening me.

[BW Manilowe]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I find this news appalling.  Why shouldn't Grace Park and Daniel Dae Kim have received equal pay?  Both of them were arguably more well known than Alex O'Loughlin when the show began.  Hawaii Five 0 made news when it premiered because 50% of the lead credited cast were Asian.  That is a rarity on a drama in today's TV age.  When Masi Oka joined, 3/5 of the credited cast were Asian.  Now, all three are gone.  And two of them are gone pretty much because of money.

Why would they be so willing to lose both of these actors?  Their characters are integral to the show.  Why couldn't they have cut the thoroughly useless character of Jerry Garcia and divided Jerry Garcia's salary between Grace and Daniel?  Jerry Garcia adds pretty much nothing to the show.  Every scene he is in feels like they shoehorned him in because they need to find something for him to do.

I realise that people "in the know" were speculating that both Kono and Chin would be leaving the show, given the way their storyline went towards the end of last season.  But many others who were "in the know" were saying it was just a semi-cliffhanger designed to create suspense, there'd be no question that both of them would be back.

How awful to have a show set in Hawaii with no Asian characters.  From 60% of the cast to ZERO.  And yes, I am aware of the litany of supporting characters who are basically glorified extras.  I imagine it's hard enough being an Asian-American or Asian-Canadian actor in Hollywood.  Parts are hard to come by, and then when you get them, they tell you that you are going to be paid less because... well, because.  You accept it because you have the chance to be a lead on a show.  You toil away for seven years and realise that there's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be paid as much as the other two actors, because you are part of the main lead cast just as much as they are.  And then you get told that in fact, you will make 10% less.  For no good reason.  It's hard not to view this with some element of racism.

Although I have always appreciated the ring of "San Francisco Treat" and the nostalgia of the Rice a Roni jingle... I can't help but still call her by the name "San Francisco Police Lady".  I like that moniker because it's just so bland and uninteresting.  Like her.  I'm assuming that with Chin gone, that she will also be gone.  Buh bye.

Unless they can figure out workarounds I can't, at the moment, to keep these characters around it would appear we're going to lose the recurring characters of Abby Dunn (aka San Francisco Treat/San Francisco Police Lady), Chin's niece Sara, & Kono's husband, Adam, with the departures of DDK & Grace P.

[Ohmo]

Quote

They're victims of racism in show business, and that deserves attention just like in any other industry.  I get it - they have fame and fortune, so it's easy to not feel sorry for them, but it doesn't mean they weren't wronged.

I do think that Daniel and Grace were wronged, but I also think they asked for too much.  I also believe that CBS was wrong in the way this has been handled...going back years.

As soon as Scott Caan said he wanted his 5-episode fewer deal, regardless of what the reason was, at that point, I would have considered him a supporting actor.  If he didn't like that, then so be it...bye, bye, but that is the issue here for me.  I think that CBS should have offered to bring Grace and Daniel up to whatever Scott's terms are.  I think a case can be made that Grace, Daniel, and Scott have done a comparable amount of work with Scott working in 5 fewer episodes.  If it's not exactly comparable, I think it's close enough given Grace and Daniel's time on the show.

That being said, I think to ask to be on par with Alex-was not warranted, no matter how unpopular that opinion may be.  To me, Scott, Daniel, and Grace can be considered similar, but I would not give Grace and Daniel the same amount of money as Alex.  Chin and Kono do not lead the show like Steve does.  Alex is in many more scenes, does many more stunts, and drives much more story.

CBS did do this to itself by continuing to see Scott and Alex as equal, but if Grace and Daniel were offered terms similar to Scott, then I think that was fair.  If CBS is overpaying Scott because he's still on par with Alex, that's CBS' fault, but that doesn't mean I agree with overpaying Scott, Daniel, and Grace.  I completely disagree with the premise that Alex, Scott, Daniel, and Grace are the "same."  They are not, in my opinion.

The racism piece is a separate, but related conversation.  Sure, one could rightly wonder about Alex's ethnicity and its ties to his lead status, but that's more a conversation for eight years ago, and it's not going to be righted eight years later.  Whether Alex should or should not have been cast as lead,  he was, and he's been doing lead work for the entire length of the series.  I like Daniel and Grace, but the same can not be said about the characters they have played.  I consider Chin and Kono to be supporting characters.

[ByaNose]

The opening credits are gonna be really short this season. LOL!!!

I'm not really that shocked by all of this. Nobody in the same job title (perhaps fast food) makes the same salary in any business. I'm not even sure Alex & Scott do.  I think Caan is on par but not making the exact as Alex, is he? Of course, there are some exceptions. Most notably the cast of Friends but they were even in "star status". I doubt the cast of ER was making the same as George Clooney in his heyday. The real lead on H50 in Alex and Scott was more the co-star and then the rest. IMO!!!

[BW Manilowe]

1 hour ago, ByaNose said:

The opening credits are gonna be really short this season. LOL!!!

I'm not really that shocked by all of this. Nobody in the same job title (perhaps fast food) makes the same salary in any business. I'm not even sure Alex & Scott do.  I think Caan is on par but not making the exact as Alex, is he? Of course, there are some exceptions. Most notably the cast of Friends but they were even in "star status". I doubt the cast of ER was making the same as George Clooney in his heyday. The real lead on H50 in Alex and Scott was more the co-star and then the rest. IMO!!!

Unless they promote someone who recurs in most/many episodes to the main titles (like Dennis Chun, who plays Sgt. Duke Lukela, or Taylor Wily, who plays Kamekona) or they add the actress who's supposed to play Tani, the HPD washout turned lifeguard (or whatever the character description is) whom McGarrett apparently wants to add to the team, they'll probably do a mix of staying on the actor name credits &/or existing Hawaii shots longer, or adding any Hawaii scenes necessary to make up for the lack of DDK & Grace P. on the opening credits. They removed Masi Oka's credit the week after his "aloha" episode & the credits didn't seem appreciably shorter to me (but, yeah, we're only talking about removing 1 person there... like when Michelle Borth was in, then out of, the main titles... we're not talking there about removing at least two people from the credits in the same season); so presumably they can make the credits work without noticeable issues when they remove DDK & Grace P. from them. They still have at least 4 actors in them (Alex, Scott, Jorge, & Chi) . It'll probably be like S1 again, when the "Core 4" were the only ones in the main titles, if they don't add anyone/anything else.

Edited July 5, 2017 by BW Manilowe
To add a comment.

[MissLucas]

Quote

Nobody in the same job title (perhaps fast food) makes the same salary in any business.

It's a bit more nuanced than that as the history of the salaries on TBBT shows. Nayyar and Helberg managed to get salary parity with Parsons, Galecki and Cuoco for season 10. And most notably they all agreed to some cuts in order to raise the salaries of Bialik and Rauch.

CBS promoted H50 as a team show, it certainly profited from the cache Park and DDK brought along coming from two major shows and also enjoyed the praise the show got for diversity. Add to that how accommodating they were to Caan's wishes who managed to keep second billing (and the salary that goes with it which from what I've read is still higher per episode than Park's and DDK's) and it really looks bad.

Edited July 5, 2017 by MissLucas

[LotusFlower]

2 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I do think that Daniel and Grace were wronged, but I also think they asked for too much.  I also believe that CBS was wrong in the way this has been handled...going back years.

As soon as Scott Caan said he wanted his 5-episode fewer deal, regardless of what the reason was, at that point, I would have considered him a supporting actor.  If he didn't like that, then so be it...bye, bye, but that is the issue here for me.  I think that CBS should have offered to bring Grace and Daniel up to whatever Scott's terms are.  I think a case can be made that Grace, Daniel, and Scott have done a comparable amount of work with Scott working in 5 fewer episodes.  If it's not exactly comparable, I think it's close enough given Grace and Daniel's time on the show.

That being said, I think to ask to be on par with Alex-was not warranted, no matter how unpopular that opinion may be.  To me, Scott, Daniel, and Grace can be considered similar, but I would not give Grace and Daniel the same amount of money as Alex.  Chin and Kono do not lead the show like Steve does.  Alex is in many more scenes, does many more stunts, and drives much more story.

CBS did do this to itself by continuing to see Scott and Alex as equal, but if Grace and Daniel were offered terms similar to Scott, then I think that was fair.  If CBS is overpaying Scott because he's still on par with Alex, that's CBS' fault, but that doesn't mean I agree with overpaying Scott, Daniel, and Grace.  I completely disagree with the premise that Alex, Scott, Daniel, and Grace are the "same."  They are not, in my opinion.

The racism piece is a separate, but related conversation.  Sure, one could rightly wonder about Alex's ethnicity and its ties to his lead status, but that's more a conversation for eight years ago, and it's not going to be righted eight years later.  Whether Alex should or should not have been cast as lead,  he was, and he's been doing lead work for the entire length of the series.  I like Daniel and Grace, but the same can not be said about the characters they have played.  I consider Chin and Kono to be supporting characters.

I agree that Alex is the star or lead actor of the show, but I think that as soon as they gave Scott his deal (high or equal salary to Alex's, plus money on the back end), then it's only fair to do the same for DDK and GP, as all three are in similar supporting roles.  But what do you know - they gave the money to the white guy, and said no to the two Asian actors.  That's why this is being called racist.  

[ennui]

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

How awful to have a show set in Hawaii with no Asian characters.

So, they can hire new Asian actors. 

It's hardly unusual for actors to leave following contract negotiations. And I think it's the nature of the industry that anyone can be replaced. 

[LotusFlower]

1 hour ago, ennui said:

 And I think it's the nature of the industry that anyone can be replaced. 

And yet they didn't want to replace the two white guys.  Again, there's the racism.

[ganesh]

I don't think *anyone* can be replaced. I mean, really, the network has to know this just doesn't look good. 

[Artsda]

 CBS has issued a response to Kim’s Facebook post, per our sister site Deadline: “Daniel and Grace have been important and valued members of Hawaii Five-0 for seven seasons. We did not want to lose them and tried very hard to keep them with offers for large and significant salary increases. While we could not reach an agreement, we part ways with tremendous respect for their talents on screen, as well as their roles as ambassadors for the show off screen, and with hopes to work with them again in the near future.”

[blackwing]

5 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I do think that Daniel and Grace were wronged, but I also think they asked for too much.  I also believe that CBS was wrong in the way this has been handled...going back years.

As soon as Scott Caan said he wanted his 5-episode fewer deal, regardless of what the reason was, at that point, I would have considered him a supporting actor.  If he didn't like that, then so be it...bye, bye, but that is the issue here for me.  I think that CBS should have offered to bring Grace and Daniel up to whatever Scott's terms are.  I think a case can be made that Grace, Daniel, and Scott have done a comparable amount of work with Scott working in 5 fewer episodes.  If it's not exactly comparable, I think it's close enough given Grace and Daniel's time on the show.

That being said, I think to ask to be on par with Alex-was not warranted, no matter how unpopular that opinion may be.  To me, Scott, Daniel, and Grace can be considered similar, but I would not give Grace and Daniel the same amount of money as Alex.  Chin and Kono do not lead the show like Steve does.  Alex is in many more scenes, does many more stunts, and drives much more story.

CBS did do this to itself by continuing to see Scott and Alex as equal, but if Grace and Daniel were offered terms similar to Scott, then I think that was fair.  If CBS is overpaying Scott because he's still on par with Alex, that's CBS' fault, but that doesn't mean I agree with overpaying Scott, Daniel, and Grace.  I completely disagree with the premise that Alex, Scott, Daniel, and Grace are the "same."  They are not, in my opinion.

The racism piece is a separate, but related conversation.  Sure, one could rightly wonder about Alex's ethnicity and its ties to his lead status, but that's more a conversation for eight years ago, and it's not going to be righted eight years later.  Whether Alex should or should not have been cast as lead,  he was, and he's been doing lead work for the entire length of the series.  I like Daniel and Grace, but the same can not be said about the characters they have played.  I consider Chin and Kono to be supporting characters.

I do agree that Alex O'Loughlin has become the lead.  But I also feel that this is not how the show was billed at the very start.  Sure, this was a reboot of the classic Jack Lord show, and Jack Lord was undoubtedly the sole lead of his show.  The character of Danny Williams as played by James MacArthur was unquestionably a supporting sidekick role.  The Steve McGarrett character was central to the reboot, but all of the four main characters were versions of the originals.

When the current version of the show began, it was billed as an ensemble show.  I'd say that Alex O'Loughlin was fairly unknown to U.S. audiences.  He had two consecutive one-and-done failed series under his belt, and he was in a forgettable movie with Jennifer Lopez that is only known for him being shirtless on a tractor.  Scott Kahn was semi-famous because of his father and the Ocean's Eleven franchise.  Daniel Dae Kim was well known from "Lost" and Grace Park was fairly well known for her role as the scintillating Cylon Sharon on "Battlestar Galactica".  Alex O'Loughlin was arguable the LEAST known out of the four.  The show generated some press for casting 50% of its leads with Asian actors.  I don't remember thinking of this show as Steve and Danny and their two Asian sidekicks.  I remember thinking that it was going to be an ensemble show in which half its cast was Asian.

So it doesn't make sense to me that the least famous of the four, along with the other white dude, apparently got more money than the two Asian actors from the very beginning.  There's absolutely no way they can make a solid argument that Scott Kahn is a lead, especially when he doesn't appear in 1/4 of the episodes and in the episodes he is not in, they often just pretend like he doesn't exist.  I can't blame Grace and Daniel for asking for more money, especially when they see that a guy who doesn't want to be in 1/4 of the episodes (before someone responds with minutia and details, yes, I am aware he has written into his contract that he can skip 5 episodes per season, yes, I am aware that a season consists of 22 or 23 episodes, and that 5/22 is slightly more than 1/4... I am rounding) can miss these episodes without a cut in pay.   I am sure he gets paid less than Alex O'Loughlin, but he apparently gets paid the same amount per episode that Alex does.  Even though he's a part time employee.

I don't blame Grace and Daniel in the least.  If a part-time employee at my work demanded the same benefits that I got, and got paid proportionately more per hour of work than I did, AND insisted on keeping a superior title to me (since Scott apparently demanded and retained second billing), you can bet I'd be complaining.  If Scott is considered a lead, then all four of them should be leads.  What about the episodes that Alex O'Loughlin missed when he was in drug rehab?  Who picked up the slack? Grace especially is the lead female role and at many points throughout the series has been the only significant female role.

I'd be really interested to hear what Alex and Scott have to say about all of this.  After seven years of working together and being this team, I would be interested to see if they supported Grace and Daniel.  I find it hard to believe that after this show made stars out of a dud like Alex O'Loughlin and a C list actor like Scott Cahn that they couldn't even find it in themselves to support their friends and castmates, or at least offer to give up some of their salary in order to make things more fair.  They are multimillionaires many times over because of this show.

I don't know what the show is going to look like in the fall, but if 1) Steve and Danny compete for the attentions and love of New Surfer Girl, or 2) MORE BICKERING, ALL THE TIME.... I'm out.

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

When the current version of the show began, it was billed as an ensemble show.

This often gets said about CBS shows, or at least, I'd think that's what the average person thinks, but in reality, I do not think it's actually true (at least as far as the dramas are concerned.)   Fans said the same thing about NCIS, which Michael Weatherly himself refuted....saying quite clearly that it was Mark's show and they were all playing in his sandbox.  The Good Wife was the domain of Julianna Margulies, CSI: Miami was the land of David Caruso, and so on and so forth.  There's a difference between "team" shows and "ensemble" shows.  They are not interchangeable terms.  CBS likes shows with a "team" concept...and teams have a leader, who in this case is Alex.  CBS is doing the same thing that it has always done. David Boreanaz and Shemar Moore are in similar positions on new CBS shows.  That's not a coincidence.  Simply because H50 IS a CBS show, I've NEVER thought of it as an ensemble.  It's Alex's show, and I'm frankly surprised that Scott was able to get the deal that he got.

ETA:

Quote

Again, there's the racism.

Optically, I understand the point you're making, but I think there's also the issue of time.  Scott's present deal with the 5 episode reduction has been in place for a bit.  It didn't happen while Grace and Daniel were negotiating.  Like I said above, I'm surprised that Scott got it.  Since we're talking about fairness, it also seems unfair to me to lock CBS into potential deal with Daniel and Grace based on a deal that Scott signed during an earlier time frame.  CBS' view on Scott's deal may not be as favorable, yet the network is expected to make the same deal again, not once, but twice?  If Scott, Grace, and Daniel were ALL negotiating deals at the same time, there would be no doubt of your racism claim/argument, but I do think the passage of time does change the conversation a bit.

I still wouldn't pay Alex, Scott, Grace, and Daniel all the same amount of money.  I don't agree with Scott's deal, but I also don't agree with compounding the situation either.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Ohmo

[blackwing]

3 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

This often gets said about CBS shows, or at least, I'd think that's what the average person thinks, but in reality, I do not think it's actually true (at least as far as the dramas are concerned.)   Fans said the same thing about NCIS, which Michael Weatherly himself refuted....saying quite clearly that it was Mark's show and they were all playing in his sandbox.  The Good Wife was the domain of Julianna Margulies, CSI: Miami was the land of David Caruso, and so on and so forth.  There's a difference between "team" shows and "ensemble" shows.  They are not interchangeable terms.  CBS likes shows with a "team" concept...and teams have a leader, who in this case is Alex.  CBS is doing the same thing that it has always done. David Boreanaz and Shemar Moore are in similar positions on new CBS shows.  That's not a coincidence.  Simply because H50 IS a CBS show, I've NEVER thought of it as an ensemble.  It's Alex's show, and I'm frankly surprised that Scott was able to get the deal that he got.

I'd say that all of those actors you cited were stars  before their shows started.  Mark Harmon was a bonafide star from St. Elsewhere and movies.  Julianna Margulies was an Emmy award winner from ER.  David Caruso was a star from NYPD Blue.  David Boreanaz from Angel, and Shemar Moore from Young and the Restless and Criminal Minds.  I think those shows are still ensemble shows, they just have a clear lead.  None of those actors were in the same position as Alex O'Loughlin when their shows started.  Alex O'Loughlin was a nobody when Hawaii Five 0 started.  It's hard to think of this ensemble show at the start as his show when he was a nobody.  And it doesn't explain why a nobody would be given more money than two of the other cast when those two were more famous than he was.  Grace and Daniel were an integral part of the formula that led to the show's success, and it is painful to think that the producers didn't think they deserved the same rewards.

There is the argument that Alex does more than they do and that's why he deserves more money.  Well, then that begs the question, why does he get to do more?  Judging from the comments on PTV and TWOP, I think there's certainly interest in seeing Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park kick just as much butt as Alex O'Loughlin.  The writers could just as easily write bigger roles for Daniel and Grace and thus "merit" them more money.  But they weren't given the opportunity.  Why?  The only thing that seems glaring is that TPTB wanted to make the two white guys the leads and relegate the Asian characters to secondary roles.  On a show set in Hawaii no less, a state in which Asians make up a larger percentage of the population than any other race.

[Magnumfangirl]

The problem with this whole discussion is that nobody knows anything and nobody ever will.  It's all a lot of assumptions based on zero facts.   

[BW Manilowe]

1 hour ago, Artsda said:

 CBS has issued a response to Kim’s Facebook post, per our sister site Deadline: “Daniel and Grace have been important and valued members of Hawaii Five-0 for seven seasons. We did not want to lose them and tried very hard to keep them with offers for large and significant salary increases. While we could not reach an agreement, we part ways with tremendous respect for their talents on screen, as well as their roles as ambassadors for the show off screen, and with hopes to work with them again in the near future.”

Variety spells out the pay disparity & offers to DDK & Grace here

They say:

Quote

1. CBS is "troubled" by the media saying the pay disparity/lack of new deals with the stars who are of Asian descent  is a "race thing".
2. Alex & Scott are each making about $200,000 per episode for S8. Plus their "small" shares of the backend profits from the show.
3. DDK's last offer was apparently $5,000 lower than Alex & Scott's deal; plus a development deal for DDK's production company with CBS was thrown in--per CBS. A source close to DDK said the differential was more significant.
4. Grace P. was said to have sought a deal for less than half of a full season's worth of episodes, which would've been a financially challenging prospect for the network at the salary she sought.
5. DDK & Grace P. DID NOT negotiate as a unit with CBS.
6. The final offer for Grace P. was lower than that for DDK.
7. From DDK & Grace P's perspectives, the lack of pay parity was a deal breaker.
8. From CBS' perspective, Grace P. & Daniel were seen as supporting players, & CBS felt the need for precedent's sake to show that job distinction if you will, in their pay differential.
9. The backend stakes Alex & Scott got in the show reflect the leverage they commanded when the show was put together in the 2009-2010 development cycle.
10. Alex & Scott each have 1 more season (presumably meaning this season) remaining on their contract.

Edited July 6, 2017 by BW Manilowe
To fix a (lack of) spacing issue. Then to add a period.

[ennui]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I don't think *anyone* can be replaced. I mean, really, the network has to know this just doesn't look good. 

It's television. Look how many shows kill off a main character (shocking!) and continue without pause.

Television history is filled with people who couldn't come to terms and left hit shows. See if you can name any of them, as it's usually a mistake.

[Ohmo]

27 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Alex O'Loughlin was a nobody when Hawaii Five 0 started.

I'd dispute that statement.  Alex had just come off of Moonlight, a very popular (though short-lived) show at the time.  i was not a mega-Moonlight devotee, but I know that fans were trying to get the show uncancelled.

ETA: Thanks for the info, BW Manilowe.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Ohmo

[LotusFlower]

25 minutes ago, Magnumfangirl said:

The problem with this whole discussion is that nobody knows anything and nobody ever will.  It's all a lot of assumptions based on zero facts.   

We can read.

[ganesh]

9 minutes ago, ennui said:

Television history is filled with people who couldn't come to terms and left hit shows. See if you can name any of them, as it's usually a mistake.

Saying anyone can be replaced on any show at any time seems like an overstatement. I'm sure someone can name one show. 

The main point being that not being able to come to terms with the two Asian leads on this show at this point in the show history just seems callous. Yes, they can cast new actors and the show will air in the fall. Also not the point. 

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

Unless they promote someone who recurs in most/many episodes to the main titles (like ...  Taylor Wily, who plays Kamekona)

Oh, God, no, please keep him off the screen.  I hate him and "Flippa" almost as much as I hate Jerry.

1 hour ago, Artsda said:

 CBS has issued a response to Kim’s Facebook post, per our sister site Deadline: “Daniel and Grace have been important and valued members of Hawaii Five-0 for seven seasons. We did not want to lose them and tried very hard to keep them with offers for large and significant salary increases. While we could not reach an agreement, we part ways with tremendous respect for their talents on screen, as well as their roles as ambassadors for the show off screen, and with hopes to work with them again in the near future.”

Yeah, see #2 below.  "We have total respect for them, as long as they know their place".

13 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

Variety spells out the pay disparity & offers to DDK & Grace here

They say:

1. CBS is "troubled" by the media saying the pay disparity/lack of new deals with the stars who are of Asian descent  is a "race thing".
2. From CBS' perspective, Grace P. & Daniel were seen as supporting players, & CBS felt the need for precedent's sake to show that job distinction if you will, in their pay differential.

1. Boo f**kin' hoo.  Even if H50 started as a team show, it certainly isn't one now.  Here's a hint (for all the "I am not a racist" people): if you don't want to be called a racist, don't do racist things!

2.  No,  Just no.  Jorge and Teila are supporting actors.  Seeing Kim and Grace as such is the definition of racism.

It seems to me they could easily have cut Grace and bumped up Kim.  That way they keep the show's cherished tradition of treating women badly without getting into the race problem.

[dwmarch]

I wonder why no one at CBS thought of the obvious solution: Spinoff! If both characters are mainland bound, make a mainland 5-0 show. Maybe they're going around solving cold cases, maybe they're helping when and where requested, maybe they're running down sex traffickers, maybe all of the above. If there needs to be a secret agent element, they could use some Phoenix Foundation connections from McGyver and if they need a military element they've already crossed over with the NCIS crowd. I'm sure CBS could come up with a police procedural staring Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park and have it be better than the parent show.

[MissLucas]

4 hours ago, ennui said:

It's television. Look how many shows kill off a main character (shocking!) and continue without pause.

Television history is filled with people who couldn't come to terms and left hit shows. See if you can name any of them, as it's usually a mistake.

It's a beloved tale that actors who leave a hit show will get punished by fate - hence all the lists tv-related sites produce about the topic whenever they need to fill space - normally peppered gleefully with terms like 'greedy', 'regret' and 'hubris'. They obviously never list the people who continued to work successfully but they do exist: Sasha Alexander, Ashton Kutcher, Steve Carrell, Dan Stevens, Mandy Patinkin, George Clooney.

In the same vein are stories about shows that survived losing a leading actor (though that survival was often of the short-term kind): Scrubs, The Office (s. above), The X-Files. And then there are shows who did quite well after a lead actor left (Cheers). Bottom-line is that there are a lot of variables at play.

H50 has one probably two more seasons left - I highly doubt there's more. So it will be difficult to estimate how much this is going to hurt the show. I actually don't think it will make a major difference. Yes, there's some controversy among the show's fanbase but this is not a cult show with a rabid dedicated following but a show the majority of viewers tune in for some easy entertainment (not dissing the show but it is what it is) so TPTB can take the heat the decision costs them in the short-term. I'm actually surprised they even bothered to issue a statement.

[Princess Lucky]

8 hours ago, Artsda said:

 CBS has issued a response to Kim’s Facebook post, per our sister site Deadline: “Daniel and Grace have been important and valued members of Hawaii Five-0 for seven seasons. We did not want to lose them and tried very hard to keep them with offers for large and significant salary increases. While we could not reach an agreement, we part ways with tremendous respect for their talents on screen, as well as their roles as ambassadors for the show off screen, and with hopes to work with them again in the near future.”

If DDK was offered a "significant" pay raise which was barely enough to give him a salary 10%/15% lower than AOL's (and not $5,000, come on, CBS), then how much less was he originally getting? CBS doesn't even realize they're making themselves sound even worse.

6 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I'd dispute that statement.  Alex had just come off of Moonlight, a very popular (though short-lived) show at the time.  i was not a mega-Moonlight devotee, but I know that fans were trying to get the show uncancelled.

Wasn't that show very poorly rated? Does anyone still talk about it? I don't think it was a Firefly-style cult hit, it just hit a nerve with a small number of people who were vocal about enjoying it. But did the mainstream viewing audience know about it? I remember the efforts to uncancel it (because I follow entertainment news pretty closely) but I never once watched an episode and I didn't even know what AOL looked like before H50, let alone his name. I agree that Scott Caan definitely had name recognition (both literally and because of his movies), but if we accept "Moonlight" as very popular, then how about Battlestar Galactica? By the measure of popularity, GP was ten times more famous. And DDK was on Lost. Surely the most recognizable face on H50.

Also, it seems we have confirmation AOL and Scott Caan are making the same (because Danno is not a supporting character, somehow). Which fortifies the argument of those saying "forget AOL, why shouldn't DDK make the same as SC?"

Anyway, it seems that CBS is troubled by all the race talk. I hope that makes them cast some Asian actors, if only to appear less racist. That'll be the one silver lining in this situation.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Princess Lucky

[LizDC]

8 hours ago, jhlipton said:

2.  No,  Just no.  Jorge and Teila are supporting actors.  Seeing Kim and Grace as such is the definition of racism.

Who is Teila? 

[Ohmo]

Quote

I agree that Scott Caan definitely had name recognition (both literally and because of his movies), but if we accept "Moonlight" as very popular, then how about Battlestar Galactica? By the measure of popularity, GP was ten times more famous. And DDK was on Lost. Surely the most recognizable face on H50.

Sure, I never watched Lost or BSG, but I know they're both popular.  That wasn't the point that I was making.  I was responding to the statement that Alex was a "nobody" at the time he was cast.  I don't think that's an accurate statement.

In terms of Grace and Daniel's popularity, yes, they were/are popular for those shows, but that doesn't make the roles of Chin and Kono lead roles.   They are supporting roles played by actors with a lot of popularity who chose those roles for whatever reasons that they did.  Michael Weatherly was popular on Dark Angel and from his soap days, but his role as Tony was supporting to Gibbs.  Jorge Garcia was also on Lost, but his current role is supporting to the character of Steve.  Popularity is a measuring stick when you're talking similar roles, but Steve and Chin are not similar, nor are Steve and Kono.  Whoever chose to play them, no matter what their name recognition, was choosing to take a supporting role, which pays less than a lead role.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

Wasn't that show very poorly rated? Does anyone still talk about it? I don't think it was a Firefly-style cult hit, it just hit a nerve with a small number of people who were vocal about enjoying it. But did the mainstream viewing audience know about it? I remember the efforts to uncancel it (because I follow entertainment news pretty closely) but I never once watched an episode and I didn't even know what AOL looked like before H50, let alone his name. I agree that Scott Caan definitely had name recognition (both literally and because of his movies), but if we accept "Moonlight" as very popular, then how about Battlestar Galactica? By the measure of popularity, GP was ten times more famous. And DDK was on Lost. Surely the most recognizable face on H50.

Also, it seems we have confirmation AOL and Scott Caan are making the same (because Danno is not a supporting character, somehow). Which fortifies the argument of those saying "forget AOL, why shouldn't DDK make the same as SC?"

Anyway, it seems that CBS is troubled by all the race talk. I hope that makes them cast some Asian actors, if only to appear less racist. That'll be the one silver lining in this situation.

I watched Moonlight, thought it was meh. The only actor I liked in it was Jason Dohring. I thought Alex was terrible in it, and almost didn't watch Hawaii 5-0 because of him. I did watch it because of DDK, and GP (hadn't seen Scott Caan in anything). 

But this last season was it for me, and their leaving just confirms that. You can replace actors and have a show survive - but when replace that much of your major cast, it's a far rougher row to hoe. Especially on a show that's (imo) going downhill anyway. We can list just as many shows that didn't survive a major cast member leaving as those who did. 

[Princess Lucky]

41 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Sure, I never watched Lost or BSG, but I know they're both popular.  That wasn't the point that I was making.  I was responding to the statement that Alex was a "nobody" at the time he was cast.  I don't think that's an accurate statement.

In terms of Grace and Daniel's popularity, yes, they were/are popular for those shows, but that doesn't make the roles of Chin and Kono lead roles.   They are supporting roles played by actors with a lot of popularity who chose those roles for whatever reasons that they did.  Michael Weatherly was popular on Dark Angel and from his soap days, but his role as Tony was supporting to Gibbs.  Jorge Garcia was also on Lost, but his current role is supporting to the character of Steve.  Popularity is a measuring stick when you're talking similar roles, but Steve and Chin are not similar, nor are Steve and Kono.  Whoever chose to play them, no matter what their name recognition, was choosing to take a supporting role, which pays less than a lead role.

Nor are Steve and Danno. And yet here we are.

[BW Manilowe]

1 hour ago, LizDC said:

Who is Teila? 

That's Taylor Wily (Kamekona)'s real name: Teila Tuli.

[Ohmo]

5 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

Nor are Steve and Danno. And yet here we are.

I agree with that, and I will quote myself:

Quote

I don't agree with Scott's deal, but I also don't agree with compounding the situation either.

[LizDC]

CBS made ‘significant’ salary offers to ex ‘Hawaii Five-0’ stars

 

Quote

Industry sources said O’Loughlin and Caan are making about $200,000 per episode apiece for the upcoming eighth season of the show, produced by CBS Television Studios. A source close to the situation said CBS’ last per-episode salary offer to Kim was about $5,000 apart from the two lead actors, and CBS offered to set a new overall deal with Kim’s 3AD production banner. However, sources close to Kim said the differential was more significant.

The dispute on the difference in compensation levels may hinge on the fact that O’Loughlin and Caan have a small share of the backend profits of the show. “Hawaii Five-0” commanded a lucrative $2 million-per-episode cable syndication deal with TNT in 2011, although the show turned out to be a lackluster performer for the cabler. It remains a successful property for CBS in international markets — all of which means O’Loughlin and Caan’s profit participation stakes probably plump up their take-home pay considerably.

Park, meanwhile, was said to have sought a deal for less than half of a full season’s worth of episodes, which would have been a financially challenging prospect for the network at the salary that she sought. “Hawaii Five-0” delivered some 25 episodes in its most recent season.

Sources close to the situation noted that Kim and Park did not negotiate as a unit in their discussions with CBS. The final offer for Park was lower than that for Kim, according to a source.

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I wonder why no one at CBS thought of the obvious solution: Spinoff! If both characters are mainland bound, make a mainland 5-0 show.

They need to set that in San Francisco so they can take advantage of The Treat's network of contacts there. 

 

3 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

CBS doesn't even realize they're making themselves sound even worse.

This is what I don't get. I hate this word because it's so overused, but no one took note of the "optics" of this situation? The network may think that GP and DDK are supporting characters, but it's more like 1A to AOL's 1 at best. 

I actually don't think the show will tank either, but this seemed terribly handled.