Hawaii 5-0 In the Media

[Passepartout]

That is the problem, violence is always a first resort for Steve no matter what. He needs to think before he acts. Danny usually does this.

[BluBarbi98]

Grace Park and Daniel Dae Kim have left Hawaii 5-0. This is incredibly disappointing especially since it seems like they won't get a proper goodbye.

. http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/daniel-dae-kim-grace-park-exit-‘hawaii-five-0’/ar-BBDuVEa?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

Edited July 1, 2017 by BluBarbi98
Additional comments

[HurricaneVal]

Whaaaaat?  I know Grace Park was restless, but DDK lives in Hawaii, and I never got a whiff of restlessness from him.  Though I do agree there needs to be pay equity, they are a team.  I started watching because of Daniel Dae Kim--I've been a fan since he was so naively and deliciously evil in Angel.  I hope this is just posturing.

[Utpe]

That's preposterous.  CBS should have given them equal pay.  The ensemble is what makes the show great.  Without Park and Kim, Hawaii Five-0 will surely go downhill fast.  I don't see this coming back for a ninth season.  Pity.

[Passepartout]

I hope it goes down the toilet. Or better yet fans protest them being back.

[Princess Lucky]

Grace Park and DDK, both of whom have been on very successful shows before (Battlestar Galactica, and Lost, respectively, though DDK has been on tons of stuff over the years) can't get the same (or roughly the same, I assume) amount of money as AOL who basically only has H50 under his name (in terms of success)? (Scott Caan is a little more famous, and probably makes a lot of money per episode, but I suspect the fact he sits out about 6 episodes per season lowers his total salary)

Great. And now a show set in Hawaii has no Asian actors in it.

Will the new characters be Asian, at least? Or nah?

CBS treats women and POC so poorly when it comes time for contract negotiations (see also Criminal Minds, with the JJ/Prentiss debacle a few years ago, but also this season, with JJ and Garcia). At least on TBBT the other co-stars supported Mayim Bialik and Melissa Rauch, and accepted pay cuts so those two could get raises. Which is amazing. And the only reason they did that was because they knew CBS would have fired them otherwise. Because that's what CBS does. I guess H50 is not much of an "ohana" after all.

(yes, I'm mad.)

[BW Manilowe]

6 hours ago, BluBarbi98 said:

Grace Park and Daniel Dae Kim have left Hawaii 5-0. This is incredibly disappointing especially since it seems like they won't get a proper goodbye.

. http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/daniel-dae-kim-grace-park-exit-‘hawaii-five-0’/ar-BBDuVEa?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

We've been discussing it in the Spoilers and Speculation thread.

[BW Manilowe]

6 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

Whaaaaat?  I know Grace Park was restless, but DDK lives in Hawaii, and I never got a whiff of restlessness from him.  Though I do agree there needs to be pay equity, they are a team.  I started watching because of Daniel Dae Kim--I've been a fan since he was so naively and deliciously evil in Angel.  I hope this is just posturing.

It's not posturing, unfortunately. DDK & GP are officially gone. They asked for pay equity with Alex & Scott (Variety reported they make/made about 10-15% less than Alex & Scott), which to me seems at least close to fair, given how the "core four" seemed like an ensemble & the show is going into S8. They apparently couldn't work out a deal. So they're gone.

[BW Manilowe]

2 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

Grace Park and DDK, both of whom have been on very successful shows before (Battlestar Galactica, and Lost, respectively, though DDK has been on tons of stuff over the years) can't get the same (or roughly the same, I assume) amount of money as AOL who basically only has H50 under his name (in terms of success)? (Scott Caan is a little more famous, and probably makes a lot of money per episode, but I suspect the fact he sits out about 6 episodes per season lowers his total salary)

Great. And now a show set in Hawaii has no Asian actors in it.

Will the new characters be Asian, at least? Or nah?

CBS treats women and POC so poorly when it comes time for contract negotiations (see also Criminal Minds, with the JJ/Prentiss debacle a few years ago, but also this season, with JJ and Garcia). At least on TBBT the other co-stars supported Mayim Bialik and Melissa Rauch, and accepted pay cuts so those two could get raises. Which is amazing. And the only reason they did that was because they knew CBS would have fired them otherwise. Because that's what CBS does. I guess H50 is not much of an "ohana" after all.

(yes, I'm mad.)

I know you meant "no LEAD Asian actors", but they still have Dennis Chun who plays HPD Sgt. Duke Lukela (he's at least part Chinese, I think). And they still have Taylor Wily (Kamekona) & Shawn Mokuahi Garnett (Cousin Flippa)--but I think they're Samoan, which is probably more "Pacific Islander" than Asian. And they have Kimmee Balmilero, who's Filipina & replaced Masi Oka as the Medical Examiner. And Shawn Thomsen, who plays the recurring role of HPD Officer Pua--I think he's Hawaiian, but I'm not sure what the rest of his ethnic mix is. And I know we only saw her once last season, but the new Hawaiian Governor in the show, Governor Keiko Mahoe (played by Rosalind Chao), is apparently at least part Asian as well.

So there is still Asian representation among the supporting/recurring cast.

And they haven't yet cast the new female regular they've announced they're looking for. She could be a full or part Asian as well.

Edited July 1, 2017 by BW Manilowe
To add a comment.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, BW Manilowe said:

I know you meant "no LEAD Asian actors", but they still have Dennis Chun who plays HPD Sgt. Duke Lukela (he's at least part Chinese, I think). And they still have Taylor Wily (Kamekona) & Shawn Mokuahi Garnett (Cousin Flippa)--but I think they're Samoan, which is probably more "Pacific Islander" than Asian. And they have Kimmee Balmilero, who's Filipina & replaced Masi Oka as the Medical Examiner. And Shawn Thomsen, who plays the recurring role of HPD Officer Pua--I think he's Hawaiian, but I'm not sure what the rest of his ethnic mix is. And I know we only saw her once last season, but the new Hawaiian Governor in the show, Governor Keiko Mahoe (played by Rosalind Chao), is apparently at least part Asian as well.

So there is still Asian representation among the supporting/recurring cast.

And they haven't yet cast the new female regular they've announced they're looking for. She could be a full or part Asian as well.

I am reasonably sure from her MASH and After MASH interviews which I remember for a single question that both of Rosalind Chao's parents immigrated from China. But of course my memory could have lost something from 30 years ago. This is an interesting political case that instead of the hope of color blind casting  everyone is speculating that if you are not publicly seen as Asian then no need to apply. It reminds me of seven years ago with complaints about no ethnic Hawaiians in the main cast when most sites show that there is a greater percentage of  ethnic Japanese  and ethnic Filipinos in the state that were not seen in that political discussion

[Passepartout]

I think in a sense both Grace and Daniel wanted to move on. But still it makes me not want to watch the show over what happened. Wonder if people that are fans of the show will protest and start to lead a letter campaign to get both back on? Doubt it but they can at least try.

[Babalu]

I'm done, and I told CBS. Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park and their contributions to the team were important parts of why I've watched the past seven seasons, and this is just a shoddy way to treat two of your stars, especially since they're the only two POC leads. If CBS/the production company needed to save money that badly, they could have eliminated shrimp guy, Flippa, the kids, any girlfriends in the past few years (none of whom have added an iota to the show), Jerry, and even Scott Caan, who apparently doesn't want to be there anyway. I'll miss the scenes of Hawai'i, but not enough to get over my distaste at the way this was handled.

Edited to respond to @Passepartout: I think you're probably right, but that's not how it was presented. If the story from both GP and DDK had been that their time at H50 was wonderful but they'd decided to pursue other opportunities, that would have been sad but understandable. Instead, it was that CBS wouldn't value them as much as their co-stars.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Babalu

[BW Manilowe]

OK... This version of yesterday's article from Variety says that *CBS' final offer in the negotiations with DDK & Grace P. was to pay them 10-15% less this season than Alex & Scott are getting*; what was stated/I read before was that DDK & Grace P. were *already* making that amount (& wanted more). It also says that both Alex & Scott have deals which give them percentage points on the back end, as far as the show goes. I know that's a (pretty standard) contract thing, & it's a showbiz term which I've heard, but I've never really understood it other than it means--in this case--Alex & Scott make money from being on the show through other sources than their paychecks.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/daniel-dae-kim-grace-park-hawaii-five-0-1202484329/#respond

[Princess Lucky]

3 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

I know you meant "no LEAD Asian actors", but they still have Dennis Chun who plays HPD Sgt. Duke Lukela (he's at least part Chinese, I think). And they still have Taylor Wily (Kamekona) & Shawn Mokuahi Garnett (Cousin Flippa)--but I think they're Samoan, which is probably more "Pacific Islander" than Asian. And they have Kimmee Balmilero, who's Filipina & replaced Masi Oka as the Medical Examiner. And Shawn Thomsen, who plays the recurring role of HPD Officer Pua--I think he's Hawaiian, but I'm not sure what the rest of his ethnic mix is. And I know we only saw her once last season, but the new Hawaiian Governor in the show, Governor Keiko Mahoe (played by Rosalind Chao), is apparently at least part Asian as well.

So there is still Asian representation among the supporting/recurring cast.

And they haven't yet cast the new female regular they've announced they're looking for. She could be a full or part Asian as well.

Yes, a lot of Asian actors who are paid next to nothing, because they play minor roles. Within months, we lost DDK, Grace Park (and I assume Ian Anthony Dale) as well as Masi Oka. The show went from 3 Asian leads plus a big recurring player to bit players in glorified cameos.

Like I said, though, I truly hope any new characters/actors brought in will be Asian. This is set (and filmed) in Hawaii, after all.

13 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

OK... This version of yesterday's article from Variety says that *CBS' final offer in the negotiations with DDK & Grace P. was to pay them 10-15% less this season than Alex & Scott are getting*; what was stated/I read before was that DDK & Grace P. were *already* making that amount (& wanted more). It also says that both Alex & Scott have deals which give them percentage points on the back end, as far as the show goes. I know that's a (pretty standard) contract thing, & it's a showbiz term which I've heard, but I've never really understood it other than it means--in this case--Alex & Scott make money from being on the show through other sources than their paychecks.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/daniel-dae-kim-grace-park-hawaii-five-0-1202484329/#respond

Another thing to consider is the original disparity. DDK and GP didn't accept a salary that was 10-15% lower than AOL and Scott Caan's now, but I can only imagine how much lower their original salary was, for 7 whole years. A new salary would have to partly make up for that, as well.  And, considering the back end deals, even if DDK and GP were to have an equal salary, AOL and SC would still be making more.

Yet again, CBS gives everything to the white male leads with minimal negotiations, and leaves the women and the poc (and GP is both, by the way) hanging, if not fired.

As for DDK and GP wanting to leave, I doubt it, if only because the show probably has another year left, two tops, and DDK especially (who lives in Hawaii) would have no reason to give up a cushy job. These articles (from their camp, I'm sure) clearly suggest they left for financial reasons alone.

That said, I can definitely believe that they were fully prepared to leave, and they don't see this as a huge loss. Because it's not, for them. It's the show's loss.

I really want to see how the premiere handles their exit. We'll probably get a cargument in which Danno argues against bringing in new people because he hates everyone, and Steve tells him to give the newbies a chance, and we'll only hear what happened in a throwaway line, right before a car chase randomly starts. And, starting with episode 2, Chin and Kono will never be mentioned again.

[Trey]

This is just really sad.  Even though I have more or less quit watching it, it makes me angry that CBS would not give GP and DDK the raise they deserve.  It sure makes  Peter Lenkov's  comments about GP and DDK being "family" sound very phony.

[anna0852]

9 minutes ago, Trey said:

This is just really sad.  Even though I have more or less quit watching it, it makes me angry that CBS would not give GP and DDK the raise they deserve.  It sure makes  Peter Lenkov's  comments about GP and DDK being "family" sound very phony.

In all fairness Peter Lenkov might not have been the decision maker here. When all that stuff when down on Criminal Minds with JJ/Prentiss being fired to allow budget for a spin-off (that failed), the show's producers were *very* opposed to the move but got over-ruled by the CBS execs.

[BW Manilowe]

1 hour ago, Princess Lucky said:

Yes, a lot of Asian actors who are paid next to nothing, because they play minor roles. Within months, we lost DDK, Grace Park (and I assume Ian Anthony Dale) as well as Masi Oka. The show went from 3 Asian leads plus a big recurring player to bit players in glorified cameos.

Like I said, though, I truly hope any new characters/actors brought in will be Asian. This is set (and filmed) in Hawaii, after all.

Another thing to consider is the original disparity. DDK and GP didn't accept a salary that was 10-15% lower than AOL and Scott Caan's now, but I can only imagine how much lower their original salary was, for 7 whole years. A new salary would have to partly make up for that, as well.  And, considering the back end deals, even if DDK and GP were to have an equal salary, AOL and SC would still be making more.

Yet again, CBS gives everything to the white male leads with minimal negotiations, and leaves the women and the poc (and GP is both, by the way) hanging, if not fired.

As for DDK and GP wanting to leave, I doubt it, if only because the show probably has another year left, two tops, and DDK especially (who lives in Hawaii) would have no reason to give up a cushy job. These articles (from their camp, I'm sure) clearly suggest they left for financial reasons alone.

That said, I can definitely believe that they were fully prepared to leave, and they don't see this as a huge loss. Because it's not, for them. It's the show's loss.

I really want to see how the premiere handles their exit. We'll probably get a cargument in which Danno argues against bringing in new people because he hates everyone, and Steve tells him to give the newbies a chance, and we'll only hear what happened in a throwaway line, right before a car chase randomly starts. And, starting with episode 2, Chin and Kono will never be mentioned again.

I'm pretty sure DDK's original intent was to stay on. After The Good Doctor, a show he Executive Produces through his production company, along with others & their company/companies, got picked up for ABC's fall schedule he was quoted (I think in TV Guide/on their website) as saying his involvement in that wouldn't affect his involvement in H50 (& vice-versa)... he was fully prepared to work on the other show behind the scenes & continue playing Chin on H50. As for Grace, it's less clear. As far back as her last day of shooting for last season, there was talk that when they wrapped her last scene they referred to it as "a season, & possible series, wrap" for her--so someone, somewhere, was apparently under the impression that she might not be coming back for S8 (for whatever reason) as far back as the end of S7 shooting at the end of March or the beginning of April (whenever it was).

Considering Alex, Scott, &--as far as we know--Chi McBride's Grover & Jorge Garcia's Jerry are all still on the show, & all their respective characters are badge-carrying members of the Five-0 task force in the show (which makes 4 team members), they may only be casting 1 part: the new female potential regular, an HPD washout with the character name of "Tani", that was publicized between when we saw Grace's Kono on the plane for Nevada to track down the teen sex traffickers in the S7 finale & yesterday when it was announced DDK & Grace were leaving H50.

[Artsda]

 I wonder if with all the media & fan attention, they may try to still work out a deal. 

[Magnumfangirl]

 It's nonsense that DDK and GP should be paid as much as Alex.  He is the ONLY one of the cast to make a full and total commitment to the show.  The others were constantly wrangling for time off to do other things.  CBS should have kept them, but DDK & GP aren't without fault here.

[Raja]

2 minutes ago, Magnumfangirl said:

 It's nonsense that DDK and GP should be paid as much as Alex.  He is the ONLY one of the cast to make a full and total commitment to the show.  The others were constantly wrangling for time off to do other things.  CBS should have kept them, but DDK & GP aren't without fault here.

The thing is Scott Caan also has the Alex deal and pride forces them to go for parity with him.

[Magnumfangirl]

I seriously doubt that Scott has the same "per episode" deal that Alex does.  

[anna0852]

16 minutes ago, Magnumfangirl said:

 It's nonsense that DDK and GP should be paid as much as Alex.  He is the ONLY one of the cast to make a full and total commitment to the show.  The others were constantly wrangling for time off to do other things.  CBS should have kept them, but DDK & GP aren't without fault here.

Really? I don't think DDK has missed an episode (and if he has, it's certainly not as many as SC) and I think GP was only gone for her maternity leave. Which she shot a bunch of stuff for in advance, keeping Kono in most episodes. I'd say they've both made considerable effort to work their other projects around 5-0.

And also, the thought just occurred to me that losing Chin and Kono will make Scott's already considerable absences even *more* noticeable as now it's just McGarrett and Grover to cover for him. Are we going to see Jerry suddenly in the field and chasing down suspects?

Edited July 1, 2017 by anna0852
I swear I can spell

[Artsda]

Scott doesn't even appear in all episodes, he must have a different deal.

[Magnumfangirl]

16 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

Really? I don't think DDK has missed an episode

I don't think he's missed any either, but a lot of his scenes have been filmed separately from the other cast.  I'm not slamming him or GP or CBS or PL, I think they all messed up here.  But for people to claim "racism" is beyond stupid.    If the network or Peter were "racist" why did they hire them in the first place?

As for Scott, whenever his contract comes up again, he may not get the same agreement.  It's possible the network and producers realized that allowing a main character so much time away was a mistake.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Magnumfangirl

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Magnumfangirl said:

I don't think he's missed any either, but a lot of his scenes have been filmed separately from the other cast.  I'm not slamming him or GP or CBS or PL, I think they all messed up here.  But for people to claim "racism" is beyond stupid.    If the network or Peter were "racist" why did they hire them in the first place?

As for Scott, whenever his contract comes up again, he may not get the same agreement.  It's possible the network and producers realized that allowing a main character so much time away was a mistake.

They are all legacy roles from the original show. With a gender flip for the second time in Grace Park's career. With the catch phrase being "book em Danno" and Detective Williams of HPD out ranking a Sergeant promoted to Lieutenant Kelly of HPD on the task force it does leave you with the white leaders, and others as exotic Hawaiians supporting their story that the original show had in 1968 with the norms of that era. It might not have been intentional because of the outsider story for Danny, but while looking outside of the gender box the new show kept the same racial and 5-0 organizational makeup. While Chin Ho and Kono have had storylines there are small things like replacing the "CSI" lab tech with a nephew of Danny.

Chi McBride being in on the cast for a while was looking like William Smith replacing James MacArthur situation in the original with the Asian guys as supporting cast.

[Princess Lucky]

2 hours ago, Magnumfangirl said:

I seriously doubt that Scott has the same "per episode" deal that Alex does.  

 

2 hours ago, Artsda said:

Scott doesn't even appear in all episodes, he must have a different deal.

From what I gather, they make the same amount of money per episode, but Scott Caan is in fewer episodes, so he makes less money overall (per season). So he is cheaper, but technically he makes the same as AOL for the same (-ish) amount of work.

As for AOL being the lead and working harder, there's something to be said about having a white lead on a show set in Hawaii. DDK could have been the lead and he could have worked just as hard (like he has in his long career). But that was never going to happen on CBS.

1 hour ago, Magnumfangirl said:

I don't think he's missed any either, but a lot of his scenes have been filmed separately from the other cast.  I'm not slamming him or GP or CBS or PL, I think they all messed up here.  But for people to claim "racism" is beyond stupid.    If the network or Peter were "racist" why did they hire them in the first place?

I agree with comments above, if anything Peter Lenkov is probably scrambling to fix his show right now. I don't think it was his choice at all to let them go (but he was the one who cast them). CBS itself, though, as a network, it has given us plenty of reasons to consider race plays a role in major decisions. 90% of all CBS shows have white male leads, including the new shows picked up every season, even when they claim they'll "do better" in terms of diversity (which never seems to happen). And I specifically mentioned both Criminal Minds and TBBT in terms of their mistreatment of women (who were paid less and/or fired, as opposed to the male leads. Thomas Gibson had to physically assault someone to get fired, Paget Brewster just had to, like, be a woman and ask for some money which she deserved). Criminal Minds and H50 were the only/most "diverse" CBS shows. At least Criminal Minds made sure to bring in more POC, as it lost others. I hope H50 does the same, because right now we're down to 2 white guy leads and 2 "comic relief" men of color.

[MissLucas]

Regardless of what went down behind the negotiation curtains the optics are bad. Since season 8 will be the last season anyway TPTB should have tried to keep the show's core cast intact.

[Magnumfangirl]

2 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

CBS itself, though, as a network, it has given us plenty of reasons to consider race plays a role

I don't agree.  It's one of those blanket accusations that can never be proved or disproved.

[BW Manilowe]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Regardless of what went down behind the negotiation curtains the optics are bad. Since season 8 will be the last season anyway TPTB should have tried to keep the show's core cast intact.

There's been no official announcement that S8 will be the last. It's all speculation on the part of those who are saying it.

Yes, Alex said in an Australian media interview last season that he thought he'd be ready to leave at the end of S8 because of the physical damage he'd incurred from doing so many of his own stunts (& at the time, S8 hadn't even been officially announced), & 1 media report I've seen since the Grace/DDK departure news broke says the upcoming S8 is the last year on Alex's contract; but in his even more recent interview, with CBS' Watch! magazine, Alex--who's been undergoing specialized treatment for his injuries--said that he was now feeling well enough he thought he might be able to continue past S8 if the show went beyond the then-announced S8. If the ratings resurgence it was said the show had last season continues (now who knows about that, what with Grace & DDK gone) this season, it could go past S8.

[LotusFlower]

29 minutes ago, Magnumfangirl said:

I don't agree.  It's one of those blanket accusations that can never be proved or disproved.

Of course it can be proven.  Just look at the shows, the cast, who's a lead actor, who's a supporting actor, who leaves, who stays, who gets fired, who doesn't, who gets raises, who doesn't, etc...  

I'm sad for both of them, but I applaud their willingness to walk away from a high-paying gig out of principle.  It would be great if others followed suit, and CBS (and other networks) got the message.  

[MissLucas]

21 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

There's been no official announcement that S8 will be the last. It's all speculation on the part of those who are saying it.

Yes, Alex said in an Australian media interview last season that he thought he'd be ready to leave at the end of S8 because of the physical damage he'd incurred from doing so many of his own stunts (& at the time, S8 hadn't even been officially announced), & 1 media report I've seen since the Grace/DDK departure news broke says the upcoming S8 is the last year on Alex's contract; but in his even more recent interview, with CBS' Watch! magazine, Alex--who's been undergoing specialized treatment for his injuries--said that he was now feeling well enough he thought he might be able to continue past S8 if the show went beyond the then-announced S8. If the ratings resurgence it was said the show had last season continues (now who knows about that, what with Grace & DDK gone) this season, it could go past S8.

If they are seriously planning for a season 9 then that makes their handling of the situation actually worse. They have a lead-actor with health problems and the second billed actor is not available for full seasons. Under those circumstances I'd try to keep the other main actors who helped to establish the show (both Park and DDK brought some serious genre clout with them) in order to help the franchise stay on course. The current controversy is probably more damaging to the show than giving these two equal pay.

[Princess Lucky]

55 minutes ago, Magnumfangirl said:

I don't agree.  It's one of those blanket accusations that can never be proved or disproved.

I literally provided several examples of it, from the last couple of years alone. Not just about race, but also about female performers. Criminal Minds, TBBT, and H50 itself. Along with the fact CBS only picks up pilots starring white men (last season it was 100% white men, and this season it's 99% white men plus that show with Shemar Moore).

Which reminds me of another example. CBS passing on that Nancy Drew reboot starring Sarah Shahi (who is Persian) because it was "too female".

Literally all the other networks try (Fox especially). CBS has not tried in years. H50 actually seemed like the exception, but I guess that's done (for now). I just hope they don't bring in more white people to replace the actors they lost.

5 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

If they are seriously planning for a season 9 then that makes their handling of the situation actually worse. They have a lead-actor with health problems and the second billed actor is not available for full seasons. Under those circumstances I'd try to keep the other main actors who helped to establish the show (both Park and DDK brought some serious genre clout with them) in order to help the franchise stay on course. The current controversy is probably more damaging to the show than giving these two equal pay.

Absolutely agreed. Then again, maybe a potential season 9 is exactly the reason they let DDK and GP go. Two more years of higher salaries? When they can cast newbies and pay them far less? No need. I actually look forward to S9, when AOL and Scott Caan will leave, and we'll have to watch a soft reboot, starring the S8 newbies plus Jerry. Now that's what I call a show!

[Magnumfangirl]

49 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

I literally provided several examples of it, from the last couple of years alone. Not just about race, but also about female performers.

You don't KNOW that the reasons were based on race or gender.   You don't KNOW what the demands from the actors were either.  It sounds like everybody over played their hand here and don't underestimate the role that agents/lawyers play in this stuff.  They convince actors that they can demand more because that means they'll get more,  not because they're looking to make some big statement about social issues.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Magnumfangirl

[ByaNose]

I wonder if they'll use Ingo Rademacher more. He lives in Hawaii and has an established role but he ain't no DDK. The roles of Chin & Kono are pretty big roles to fill. Do they hire doppelgänger Asian actors/actresses to fill the spot? Find the best actors? Don't replace them? It would be very man heavy but they sort of have Julie Benz but she's paired with Chin, right? I'm kind of shocked by this. I was more worried about Alex O and the interviews about quitting after Season 8 and just assumed that DDK and Caan would pick up the slack. Maybe, Christopher Sean (DOOL) could come back as another character?! The 5-O team could be freaked out at first by the "lookalike" and then they accept him? Just thinking out loud. LOL!!!!

Edited July 2, 2017 by ByaNose

[LotusFlower]

1 hour ago, Magnumfangirl said:

You don't KNOW that the reasons were based on race or gender.   You don't KNOW what the demands from the actors were either.  It sounds like everybody over played their hand here and don't underestimate the role that agents/lawyers play in this stuff.  They convince actors that they can demand more because that means they'll get more,  not because they're looking to make some big statement about social issues.

On the contrary, you CAN draw conclusions by looking at a network and its history - which shows are greenlit, who is cast, who is cast in a leading vs. supporting role, who gets raises, who doesn't, etc...   If a network cares about diversity, it's easy to see, and of course the same is true if they don't.  If this were an isolated case, maybe it's just that, but when there's a pattern, it's pretty clear what's going on.  Plus, DDK and Grace Pak brought the subject up, so if you think this is a case of their agents being greedy, that's certainly your prerogative, but I believe them.  

Plus, I think it's an overstatement to say they were trying to make a "big statement about social issues" (and an offensive one at that).  Their demand was about fairness, and women and POC in all lines of work have to fight this fight.  All. The. Time.  

[jhlipton]

Once Upon A Time had Jen and Ginn make statements that they were moving on to other things (a production company and directing for Jennifer Morrison, and being a mom for Ginnifer Goodwin).  Framing this as a pay issue was really dumb.

Edited July 2, 2017 by jhlipton
Removed non-BNBR comment

[LotusFlower]

17 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

Framing this as a pay issue was really dumb.

Why?

[Magnumfangirl]

1 hour ago, LotusFlower said:

that's certainly your prerogative

Yes, what I believe about all of this is my prerogative because we'll never know the whole story.  I don't see two actors already making tons of money who overplayed their hand as victims.  I don't see the network who also overplayed their hand as some evil empire either.  Sometimes when people roll the dice, they lose and in my opinion both sides lost.  If anybody (other than the fans) is a victim here, it's Peter and the remaining cast.  They are ones who will be tasked with fixing a mistake that they probably had very little say in.  I don't think PL is any kind of writing genius, but it's his story and two of his main characters have been pulled out from under him.  That's got to suck.  I have no doubt that he, Alex, and Scott all wanted them to return.

[LotusFlower]

28 minutes ago, Magnumfangirl said:

Yes, what I believe about all of this is my prerogative because we'll never know the whole story.  I don't see two actors already making tons of money who overplayed their hand as victims.  I don't see the network who also overplayed their hand as some evil empire either.  Sometimes when people roll the dice, they lose and in my opinion both sides lost.  If anybody (other than the fans) is a victim here, it's Peter and the remaining cast.  They are ones who will be tasked with fixing a mistake that they probably had very little say in.  I don't think PL is any kind of writing genius, but it's his story and two of his main characters have been pulled out from under him.  That's got to suck.  I have no doubt that he, Alex, and Scott all wanted them to return.

Alex, Scott and Peter Lenkov will likely miss them (if they were friends, as I'm guessing they were), but three white men with lots of money, returning contracts, and money on the back end are hardly victims.  The victims are all minority actors (and that includes women) who have to fight for equal pay.  How dare Grace Park and Daniel Dae Kim stand up for themselves!  They should just stay in their place, right?  And the tv audience are also victims.  We're a diverse bunch, representing all races and colors and nationalities, and it's important to see this kind of representation on tv.  Too bad CBS doesn't agree with me.

[Artsda]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Once Upon A Time had Jen and Ginn make statements that they were moving on to other things (a production company and directing for Jennifer Morrison, and being a mom for Ginnifer Goodwin).  Framing this as a pay issue was really dumb.

That really was them wanting to move on from OUAT though. Contracts were up and Ginny said she had made her decision awhile back. During the last half of the season the cast departures at the end of the season were rumored until confirmed. 

Nobody expected Grace & Daniel to not appear in season 8, this came out of nowhere that there was a contact issue.

[Just my 2 cents]

1 hour ago, Artsda said:

Nobody expected Grace & Daniel to not appear in season 8, this came out of nowhere that there was a contact issue.

Someone mentioned on another board that there seemed to be some hints and I did notice that.  At the end of the season when they threw the party they gave Grace a "Going Away" gift of a surfboard and someone posted that they had enjoyed working with her or something to that affect.  DDK posted on his twitter account for fans not to worry Alex and Scott would be back for season 8, which if we would have read more into it would have seemed ominous.  He also made the statement that the new show he was producing, which I assume is not being filmed in Hawaii was totally separate from H50 and wouldn't affect his ability to do both.  However, I cannot imagine having the time to be a full-time Executive Producer on the mainland and full-time actor in Hawaii during the entire filming season.  During season 7 although she was seen in bits and pieces in most if not all episodes GP filmed a movie that I think might have been shot in Canada.  It doesn't surprise that both actors being in their mid and late 40's would either want to branch out into something different or focus on other things.  I imagine by now GP's son must be school age and I'm not sure if she would prefer to raise him in Hawaii or Canada not to mention she might want to focus on her family in Canada. 

[BW Manilowe]

15 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I wonder if they'll use Ingo Rademacher more. He lives in Hawaii and has an established role but he ain't no DDK. The roles of Chin & Kono are pretty big roles to fill. Do they hire doppelgänger Asian actors/actresses to fill the spot? Find the best actors? Don't replace them? It would be very man heavy but they sort of have Julie Benz but she's paired with Chin, right? I'm kind of shocked by this. I was more worried about Alex O and the interviews about quitting after Season 8 and just assumed that DDK and Caan would pick up the slack. Maybe, Christopher Sean (DOOL) could come back as another character?! The 5-O team could be freaked out at first by the "lookalike" and then they accept him? Just thinking out loud. LOL!!!!

I recently read Ingo & family moved back to LA. He's doing another story arc as Jax (or however you spell it) on General Hospital apparently. Plus, Ingo's H50 character seemed to be based in San Francisco, instead of Honolulu given that he was pulling the strings behind the scenes on Abby's original storyline before she & Chin fell in love, when she was supposed to be looking for things about the team which would help Ingo's character shut them down (his brother in the show was the HPD Internal Affairs cop who was always trying to pin something bad on Chin, who was eventually killed by Chin's brother-in-law, Gabriel  Waincroft, & he wanted revenge). Besides that, he was the guy who offered Chin the job of leading his own Five-0 like task force in San Francisco; it would just be weird, in my opinion, if Chin & Ingo's character traded cities.

[BW Manilowe]

10 hours ago, ally said:

Someone mentioned on another board that there seemed to be some hints and I did notice that.  At the end of the season when they threw the party they gave Grace a "Going Away" gift of a surfboard and someone posted that they had enjoyed working with her or something to that affect.  DDK posted on his twitter account for fans not to worry Alex and Scott would be back for season 8, which if we would have read more into it would have seemed ominous.  He also made the statement that the new show he was producing, which I assume is not being filmed in Hawaii was totally separate from H50 and wouldn't affect his ability to do both.  However, I cannot imagine having the time to be a full-time Executive Producer on the mainland and full-time actor in Hawaii during the entire filming season. During season 7 although she was seen in bits and pieces in most if not all episodes GP filmed a movie that I think might have been shot in Canada.  It doesn't surprise that both actors being in their mid and late 40's would either want to branch out into something different or focus on other things.  I imagine by now GP's son must be school age and I'm not sure if she would prefer to raise him in Hawaii or Canada not to mention she might want to focus on her family in Canada. 

This is the link to the article (from TVGuide's website where DDK says being the EP of 1 show & an actor in another, which doesn't film in the same city, at the same time wouldn't be a problem & he intended to do both this season (there's Skype/FaceTime, regular phones, etc., with which he could talk to the other show's set/staff, so it shouldn't have been that hard to make both work. And there's planes, of course, if really necessary). DDK talks about doing both in the next to last paragraph/right before the end, I think.

http://www.tvguide.com/amp/news/two-hawaii-five-0-stars-exiting-season-8/

As for holding down 2 TV show jobs in the same season, our own EP, Peter Lenkov, did it all last season, commuting fairly regularly among his base in LA, the H50 set in Honolulu, & the MacGyver set in Atlanta where they film. And numerous actors who make their living with recurring roles in multiple shows simultaneously also do it (like Michelle Hurd, who's been playing Lou Grover's wife in our show; we didn't see her last season, but in S6 she had roles in H50, Blindspot & Ash vs. Evil Dead--all in the same season). So DDK would've been able to make it work too, I'm sure.

Grace's son was born by the middle of S4 (in the show Kono & Adam were back in Hawaii either right before or after the Christmas/New Year's break repeats); so I figure he's probably 3 or 4 now, given that we're about to start S8. Unless Canadian schools are vastly different, age-wise, than in the US I figure he's around preschool age though I don't know if he would've started it or still has to. And I assume she's raising him in Canada; she's lived in/near Vancouver a long time & I've never heard of her having an alternate residence in the US, or anywhere else, since she moved to Canada when she was growing up. Her Wikipedia page says, most recently, though that she supposedly has US/Canadian dual citizenship.

[Clanstarling]

On 6/30/2017 at 10:25 PM, Utpe said:

That's preposterous.  CBS should have given them equal pay.  The ensemble is what makes the show great.  Without Park and Kim, Hawaii Five-0 will surely go downhill fast.  I don't see this coming back for a ninth season.  Pity.

I took 5-0 off my DVR list at the end of the season. I've had my fill of excessive violence and illegal activities by officers of the law. I can get that in the news.

Since DDK and GP were the only leads I really liked at this point, so I won't be tempted in September. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Macbeth]

On 7/1/2017 at 4:59 AM, Princess Lucky said:

CBS treats women and POC so poorly when it comes time for contract negotiations (see also Criminal Minds, with the JJ/Prentiss debacle a few years ago, but also this season, with JJ and Garcia). At least on TBBT the other co-stars supported Mayim Bialik and Melissa Rauch, and accepted pay cuts so those two could get raises. Which is amazing. And the only reason they did that was because they knew CBS would have fired them otherwise. Because that's what CBS does. I guess H50 is not much of an "ohana" after all.

(yes, I'm mad.)

That's what happened to the actress who played Ziva on NCIS.  Cote de Pablo - wanted a raise was soon out on her butt.  With CBS their attitude is there is always another set of T&A to replace her. 

Considering in the 70s CBS had successful shows like the Mary Tyler Moore Show and Maude - you would think it would learn from experience in terms of gender quality if not racial.  But then I hardly watch network shows for a reason.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Macbeth
Because NCIA is not a show while NCIS is

[Just my 2 cents]

29 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

That's what happened to the actress who played Ziva on NCIA.  Cote de Pablo - wanted a raise was soon out on her butt.  With CBS their attitude is there is always another set of T&A to replace her. 

Considering in the 70s CBS had successful shows like the Mary Tyler Moore Show and Maude - you would think it would learn from experience in terms of gender quality if not racial.  But then I hardly watch network shows for a reason.

So that's what happened.  I wondered about that.  I was surprised that Padget Brewster was brought back and given Thomas Gibson's role.  I imagine after losing two original cast members so soon they were in a bind and it gave Padget an opportunity to negotiate.  If this is the last season of H50, which I imagine is costly to produce, I suppose it's no big deal to bring in a cheaper female cast member since they don't seem to value their female actresses.  She'll just be another pretty face that will keep the younger viewing audience satisfied for the season.  This was the first time in a few seasons that it was almost a given that CBS would renew H50.  Generally after 4 or 5 seasons a shows ratings don't rise.  This season H50 was the exception to the rule and that might have been because they had MacGyver as a lead in although their ratings aren't that great for a first year show.  I doubt this will be the case this year and CBS can put their money on some other show that's just starting out and cheaper to produce.

[pinkglove]

Well, I guess they should be paid at least the same per episode as Caan, they were not only more dedicated on screen, but also better ambassadors of the show behind the scenes. I really fail to see how this can turn out good for CBS. Kono and Chin had good chemistry together and their "Cous thing" played an important role. Considering that apart from Kono they didn't manage to create too many (or maybe any) main/recurring female characters that people would like, except maybe from Catherine that some people did like but they nobody liked working with her... It seems like a pretty risky thing to refuse 10% rise and because of this have to find a new female character and a male character who works well with her. Unless they'll just stick to Chi McBride on the male part, but then the void will be kind of always there. Not to mention, even if they do find good actors, they'll still loose some of the ohana feeling that was what made the show stand out; and they'll loose it even more painfully since the characters didn't get an on-screen goodbye and everyone will know it was a money thing, plus there's also all the racist talk going on. The stink will follow.

And considering the cost of one H50 episode, I guess it would be less stupid to spend just a little less on effects and find the money.

Having said that, I also don't agree with calling Grace Park and DDK "victims". I mean, I understand that they felt they're not treated equally and maybe saw better opportunities elsewhere - that's fine. But having in mind how much they probably make, I wouldn't spend that much time wondering about how awful it is to be in their situation compared to white male boys :) Sure, it would be nice if they were given equal payment, because apart from them staying, it would set an example. But victims are probably elsewhere and this 10% doesn't matter all that much if you look at the bigger picture.

[BW Manilowe]

On 7/1/2017 at 8:11 PM, ByaNose said:

I wonder if they'll use Ingo Rademacher more. He lives in Hawaii and has an established role but he ain't no DDK. The roles of Chin & Kono are pretty big roles to fill. Do they hire doppelgänger Asian actors/actresses to fill the spot? Find the best actors? Don't replace them? It would be very man heavy but they sort of have Julie Benz but she's paired with Chin, right? I'm kind of shocked by this. I was more worried about Alex O and the interviews about quitting after Season 8 and just assumed that DDK and Caan would pick up the slack. Maybe, Christopher Sean (DOOL) could come back as another character?! The 5-O team could be freaked out at first by the "lookalike" and then they accept him? Just thinking out loud. LOL!!!!

This is the link to an article from ABC Soaps in Depth magazine from March this year, saying that Ingo's returning to General Hospital & including a screenshot of the page from his Facebook this past January where he says that he & his family are relocating back to LA from Hawaii on Friday of that week (& the pluralization of "Soaps" in the title is weird since ABC only has 1 soap now; they should just call it General Hospital in Depth).

http://abc.soapsindepth.com/posts/general-hospital-ingo-rademacher-return-127243/photos/ingo-rademacher-gh-costars-02-200733

His H50 character primarily interacted with Julie Benz's Abby Dunn character &, after Abby confessed he was having her try to get something he could use to shut Five-0 down, he started interacting with Chin more which eventually led to him offering Chin the job of running his own San Francisco-based, Five-0 like task force in the last season finale--&, as you may remember, Abby's "in" with Five-0 was to observe how they operated because SFPD had already started a similar task force. Considering Chin's gone, I don't know if I can see Abby (or even Sara) being around this season, & I'm also not certain about Ingo's character. Nor, sadly, can I see Adam being around since Kono's gone.

Anyway... Having said that, I suppose they could maybe keep Ingo's character on by having him work with McGarrett, Danny, & the remaining team members now (assuming his GH schedule allowed). It's not like he can't fly back & forth between Honolulu & LA to film his part either; Teilor Grubbs (Gracie Williams) started commuting last season after her family moved to LA, apparently to open up her potential job offers (which is probably 1 of the reasons we're seeing more scenes involving Danny's recently-discovered son Charlie with Danny, Uncle Steve, & others; Zach Sulzbach, who plays Charlie, lives in Honolulu--so he doesn't have to commute--& he's also still in the "cute, precocious TV/movie kid" phase of his career... a stage which Teilor Grubbs has grown out of at this point).

[LizDC]

5 hours ago, pinkglove said:

except maybe from Catherine that some people did like but they nobody liked working with her...

Really? I thought Alex's interviews after Catherine took off seemed a little interesting when he was talking about Steve being done with her forever. Of course, subsequent Lenkov interviews basically said Catherine might come back some day and she'll always be a part of the H50 family.  What happened? 

[Artsda]

Ingo's arc is already over at GH.