Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Lillybee]

Valerie, you need to take your needy self away from Dante and leave PC.

[LexieLily]

Valerie, you need to take your needy self away from Dante and leave PC.

 

And there's a busload of people she can take with her.

[Oracle42]

Now Liz thinks Little Jake needs therapy?

If he's in therapy his story about hearing her talk about Jakeson is immediately less credible and anybody who questions him is traumatizing him/pushing too hard

[HeatLifer]

Patrick, Dante, Jason, Sonny, Julian, Nik, Paul, Dillion = All Douchebags.

Is there a good guy on this show? Nathan?

[TeeVee329]

Lucas (who?), who apparently didn't get invited to eat with any of his many families.

[HeatLifer]

Lucas (who?), who apparently didn't get invited to eat with any of his many families.

Exactly. Who?

[MissE]

If he's in therapy his story about hearing her talk about Jakeson is immediately less credible and anybody who questions him is traumatizing him/pushing too hard

Except Liz doesn't know that Jake heard her and Laura talking. All she knows is that he thought Jake was his dad before everyone found out he was Jason.

[ulkis]

It's really gross, Cam and Aiden being inconsequential now that the spawn of Jason has returned.  What would have been the harm at having them come along to the Q's?  Or, hell, have them on-screen with Laura and Lulu instead of having poor injured Audrey return home from Vienna and get drafted right back into babysitting.

 

In other news, I'm all done sticking up for Valerie.  Girl, stop.

 

I can't blame her when he clearly wants it.

 

I can blame her for being pathetic enough to do this tool.

[HeatLifer]

This show has trashed Lulu/Dante, Scrubs, JaSam, and Liason.

[LexieLily]

This show has trashed Lulu/Dante, Scrubs, JaSam, and Liason.

 

Speaking of...did Patrick really say it to Jason's face that he isn't a member of the Jason Morgan fanclub? To Jason's face, when Patrick is all set to marry Jason's WIFE. (And yes, she is still Jason's wife)

[MissE]

Speaking of...did Patrick really say it to Jason's face that he isn't a member of the Jason Morgan fanclub? To Jason's face, when Patrick is all set to marry Jason's WIFE. (And yes, she is still Jason's wife)

Jason brought it up. and what is Patrick supposed to do? Is he supposed to bow down and kiss Jason's ass? Patrick doesn't owe Jason anything. 

[HeatLifer]

Speaking of...did Patrick really say it to Jason's face that he isn't a member of the Jason Morgan fanclub? To Jason's face, when Patrick is all set to marry Jason's WIFE. (And yes, she is still Jason's wife)

Yes. When just two months ago, he said, "I respect your love for Jason! I love you and Jason! You're like PB&J!!!"

[IWantCandy71]

Patrick, Dante, Jason, Sonny, Julian, Nik, Paul, Dillion = All Douchebags.

Is there a good guy on this show? Nathan?

Yes, but he's boring.

I hate to say it-it doesn't really matter that they are douchey. If and when I watch this show-and okay, I haven't bothered for several weeks-I just want to not be bored.

Good guys and girls are great, and we need them. But I need them to not bore me to death in their goodness. Some of the so called "good" characters in soaps have been some of my favorites over the years. I was a hardcore Justin and Adrianne DOOL fan back in the day, and a Jennifer Horton fan in her younger years. So, I don't need all my characters to be "bad", or even gray, even though I have always felt the gray ones are the best ones.

I just need them to make me feel something, make me want to watch, make me care. Because it doesn't matter if they are an angel or a douche-if  you don't care about them and aren't captivated by them, why bother?

Edited November 25, 2015 by IWantCandy71

[Dandesun]

So can we stop pretending that Val wasn't after Dante from jump and her lip-service about wanting Lulu to take him back was just a load of shit? Because she jumped on him as soon as she possibly could, didn't she?

 

And Dante needs to also stop pretending that Lulu was unreasonable for not trusting him and certainly thinking the worst of him and Valerie because, guess what, when he bones her the second Lulu drops off divorce papers after snarling at her about how there's no point in fighting for the marriage because she hasn't gotten over his cheating on her within a month... fuck that guy.

 

When does Johnny get back into town? Lulu needs to get on that and nurse her broken heart through her vagina. Johnny's a way better choice than f'n Dillon. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

Except Liz doesn't know that Jake heard her and Laura talking. All she knows is that he thought Jake was his dad before everyone found out he was Jason.

 

Yeah, she does. When Jake told her he knew Jake/Jason was his real dad he told her that he heard her and Laura talking and then she hilariously told him how wrong it was to eavesdrop.

 

Bravo, show! I don't know how you've done it, but you've finally found someone I want to slap more than Liz (though her smug, happy face when Jason revealed he didn't actually remember the Q Thanksgiving pizza tradition was plenty slapworthy.) I just want to slap both Dante and Valerie repeatedly. Is this going to be a new holiday tradition for them. Dante gets mad at Lulu. Valerie comes by to talk about her mom (she's dead you know) and then they screw in Dante and Lulu's house. Though I guess this time, they may not have defiled their bed, but just their couch. Lulu needs to burn that whole place down.

 

While I was on Ross' side on "Friends" during the whole "we were on a break" argument, in the previews when Dante hilariously/ridiculously asks how long he was supposed to wait, I could only hear Chandler's line "bullets have left guns slower" in my head.  Dante is seriously a piece of work. I know separation papers are probably a pre-cursor to divorce papers, but still. Dude, you're still married. This storyline has just proved time and again, despite Dante claiming to be wracked with guilt, he really wants to do fuck all to repair his marriage. Like his line earlier in the episode about how he didn't want to have to explain every phone call and every e-mail he got to Lulu. You idiot you don't have to explain every phone call and every e-mail you receive. Your wife kind of has a problem with you receiving e-mails and having intimate conversations with the WOMAN YOU SCREWED. He basically wants to have his cake and eat it, too. It's never once crossed his mind that he should distance himself from her. Clearly today proved why.

 

And Valerie! Ugh, at least today vindicated those who knew she wasn't truly sincere in wanting to let Dante go and hope for the best for Dante and Lulu's marriage. Once again she comes over with stories about her dead mom and their stupid traditions and then conveniently finds an excuse to stick around, then lunges for Dante the first chance she gets. And this is the woman who thought she had the moral superiority to lambaste Dillon for his cheap stunt at the Halloween party.

 

I'm just glad the previews show that this won't be another long held secret and that Lulu appropriately gets to put Dante on blast for not waiting one damn day. I know as a soap opera audience we want to have evolved from this Dynasty slap fights between women, but I don't care. After she, hopefully, knees Dante in the balls, I want Lulu to slap the crap out of her smug cousin.

 

Olivia shut up about you and your damn canolli. I am glad that Kristina got to meet her sister and spent some time with her other (better) family. It's a shame that Sam couldn't even make an appearance, especially considering Julian and Alexis are her parents.

 

Uh, Michael we get it you're proud that you're going to be a father. But stop putting Sabrina on display and constantly making an announcement about it as if you're trying to say "Look what I made." It was cute at first, but now it's annoying.

 

 

Jason brought it up. and what is Patrick supposed to do? Is he supposed to bow down and kiss Jason's ass? Patrick doesn't owe Jason anything.

 

No, he doesn't. But honestly Jason wasn't even trying to start anything. He was just talking about not wanting to hurt Sam and Patrick basically had to puff out his chest and, basically, mark Sam as his property. I'm surprised he didn't bring her out to pee on her and make it official.

Edited November 25, 2015 by FilmTVGeek80

[MissE]

Yeah, she does. When Jake told her he knew Jake/Jason was his real dad he told her that he heard her and Laura talking and then she hilariously told him how wrong it was to eavesdrop.

 

I stand corrected. As a Liz fan, you can imagine, that this show isn't exactly on my list of shows I have to watch every day, so I must have missed those scenes. What exactly did Jake hear though? I don't recall him hearing that Liz and Laura knew that Jake was Jason. Didn't he just hear Liz say that Jake was his father, and that they were going to be raising him?

 

Honestly, at this point, I think both Liz haters, and Liz fans can agree that its ridiculous how long they are dragging this out, and everything should have been outed months ago, or at very least the wedding. Its just stupid, and doing no one involved any favors.

Edited November 25, 2015 by MissE

[ulkis]

Much like Lulu's lies physically forced Dante and Valerie to remove their pants, this show has literally possessed my hands and forced me to tweet Brandon Barash:

 

is your stint as Johnny gonna have anything to do with Lulu and giving Dante a beatdown? Bc it needs to happen so badly 

[mybabyaidan]

Now Liz thinks Little Jake needs therapy?

 

Well, she thinks she is in the clear now.  Sam is with Patrick, Jason is staying with her.....so she can finally give a shit about her son.  Until of course, Sam starts asking questions.  She has a lot of nerve trying to act like the innocent victim trying to "make peace" with Sam. 

 

I literally laughed out loud when the first words out of Val's mouth were "my mom...."  I knew you all would have a field day with it.

 

Although I loved seeing Sam at the Q's, I am bummed she wasn't with her mom and sisters.  Oh well, beggars can't be choosers.

[Lillybee]

I hope that Dillon really moves back to LA because he is a waste of a "Q". He is such a boring. whiny character.

 

Maybe he can take Valerie with him.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Lillybee

[TeeVee329]

I literally laughed out loud when the first words out of Val's mouth were "my mom...."  I knew you all would have a field day with it.

 

Dee Wallace Patricia: Oh Valerie, please stop using me as an excuse to get with this married man.

 

Teenage Patricia: Who's her cousin's husband, don't forget that part.

 

Dee Wallace Patricia: Girl, I know.

 

Teenage Patricia: Maybe that Carly chick who looks like our mom has been a bad influence on her?

 

Dee Wallace Patricia: Maybe, she seemed like trouble.  I died so I wouldn't have to talk to her.

 

Teenage Patricia: Good call.

Edited November 25, 2015 by TeeVee329

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

 

I stand corrected. As a Liz fan, you can imagine, that this show isn't exactly on my list of shows I have to watch every day, so I must have missed those scenes. What exactly did Jake hear though? I don't recall him hearing that Liz and Laura knew that Jake was Jason. Didn't he just hear Liz say that Jake was his father, and that they were going to be raising him?

Honestly, at this point, I think both Liz haters, and Liz fans can agree that its ridiculous how long they are dragging this out, and everything should have been outed months ago, or at very least the wedding. Its just stupid, and doing no one involved any favors.

 

That seemed to be basically the gist of what he heard. But he was listening in for awhile, so I think he heard that Jake was his real father. 

 

I definitely agree this has been going on way too long and the lie just needs to be revealed already.

[dubbel zout]

Of course Olivia has to bring Italian food to someone else's Thanksgiving. Maybe ask first?

 

Ugh. Valerie and Dante. They are so not rootable. In fact, I actively root against them. 

 

It was gross to listen to Monica be happy that BorgJason showed up at the very last minute to a holiday. Ugh. I hate that she put up with the scraps he threw her way. I never like seeing her slobber over Jason in any incarnation.

 

This was actually a very depressing holiday episode, and I don't think that's what was intended.

[rur]

Dante is seriously a piece of work. I know separation papers are probably a pre-cursor to divorce papers, but still. Dude, you're still married. This storyline has just proved time and again, despite Dante claiming to be wracked with guilt, he really wants to do fuck all to repair his marriage. 

 

Fixed that for you. 

Edited November 25, 2015 by rur

[P3pp3rb1rd]

So much snarkable material on today's show that one hardly knows where to turn. Valerie's cold Thanksgiving-on-a-plate, fake football enthusiasm, and pity bid (her Mom is dead, you know) were the tools to generate a hug, a kiss, and then breathless stripping and hitting the sheets for (no doubt) the fastest mutual orgasm in history! Who knew that simple leftovers could spark such passion and juicy details to confess to boss lady Jordan, buddy Nathan, and assorted strangers at the Port Charles police station?  That car's gonna be rockin' during Valante surveillance stakeouts from now on.

Edited November 25, 2015 by P3pp3rb1rd

[Gigi43]

Lucas (who?), who apparently didn't get invited to eat with any of his many families.

He's clearly at the reject dinner with Cam and Aiden.

[yowsah1]

He's clearly at the reject dinner with Cam and Aiden.

... and Bobby Jindal. ;)

[Baxter]

So, Patrick and Jason are in a one-on-one conversation for the first time since the reveal, and aside from Patrick verbally marking Sam as his property, he doesn't even suggest that Jason try to contact Robin to see if she has any answers -- or at least to describe how/why she brought him back to life. Geesh!

 

Valerie and Dante deserve each other.

 

Olivia and her cannoli are annoying.

 

Baby Avery was all kinds of adorable. Kristina looked quite smitten with her baby sister.

 

And no Sonny today -- Happy Thanksgiving to us all!

Edited November 25, 2015 by Baxter

[MissE]

So, Patrick and Jason are in a one-on-one conversation for the first time since the reveal, and aside from Patrick verbally marking Sam as his property, he doesn't even suggest that Jason try to contact Robin to see if she has any answers -- or at least to describe how/why she brought him back to life. Geesh!

 

Valerie and Dante deserve each other.

 

Olivia and her cannoli are annoying.

 

Baby Avery was all kinds of adorable. Kristina looked quite smitten with her baby sister.

 

And no Sonny today -- Happy Thanksgiving to us all!

Its amazing how they have Patrick caring so little about Robin. Even Emma cares more about Sam, then she does Robin. Just totally unnecessary. Patrick and Emma can move on, and still love and care about Robin, but the writers don't seem interested in that.

 

Speaking of Robin, was KMc literally just back for that one episode?

Edited November 25, 2015 by MissE

[LeftPhalange]

Aiden and Cam need to throw Dead Now Alive Jake out of a window. What a worthless mother Liez is.

 

Sam and Danny should have had dinner with Julian and Alexis and Monica could have come as their guest. Fuck Jason and that piece of trash he's engaged to. 

 

Dante and Val are garbage. If Lulu isn't going to beat their asses she needs to let someone else do it.

[Gigi43]

As if it wasn't clear Avery is the best character, as the camera panned out of that dinner in which she "talked" during the Thanks, the last shot, it looked like she was about to make a grab for one of the serving bowls.

The look on kidJakes face when he dropped that thing genuinely gave me the creeps. Holy shit. He might be the nicest kid in the world for all I know but I'd lock my door if he were coming down my block.

[ulkis]

Yeah, she does. When Jake told her he knew Jake/Jason was his real dad he told her that he heard her and Laura talking and then she hilariously told him how wrong it was to eavesdrop.

 

filmgeek, just want you to know I pretty much want to give all of your posts huge standing ovations. Well, except I like Liz :) still, kinda. But you get the gist. :)

Valerie and Dante deserve each other.

 

Oh no. I don't care if Lulu started shooting puppies tomorrow and then shot herself. I do not want Valerie and Dante together in any way shape or form.

[DanaMB]

I had to take my kitty for her annual vet visit yesterday, so missed most of the ep.  I'd already had enough trauma for the day so did not On Demand it.  Reading here, I'm looking but not finding...  Did the show offer any explanation for Carlos still being alive?

 

Circumstances...

 

Seriously, that's all we got.

[WendyCR72]

Objectively, as a sane person, I know it is the writing and is not the character's fault. But my cuh-razy soap fan side is really starting to resent the character of Sam and her having to be exalted so much right up until Patrick leaves the canvas for a - no doubt! - half-assed probable Scrubs reunion when it could have been handled better if Sam didn't need a penis as backup.

 

(I say this because it is so clear that Sam is the Queen Bee right about now. But it does still bug me.)

[Tiger]

The first words out of Valerie's mouth today was "my mom". Of course.

Dante and Valerie kissing, Yikes. Whyyyyyyyyyy.

I'm at the gym and there just a headline on CNBC that read "Lulu wins Black Friday". This was obviously referring through some company, but my first was 'god, doesn't that bitchslutwhoretramp know that Black Friday was Valerie's mom's second favorite retail holiday?!?".

I'll show myself out . . .

Edited November 25, 2015 by Tiger

[MissE]

Objectively, as a sane person, I know it is the writing and is not the character's fault. But my cuh-razy soap fan side is really starting to resent the character of Sam and her having to be exalted so much right up until Patrick leaves the canvas for a - no doubt! - half-assed probable Scrubs reunion when it could have been handled better if Sam didn't need a penis as backup.

 

(I say this because it is so clear that Sam is the Queen Bee right about now. But it does still bug me.)

Sam has been the Queen Bee for awhile. Under RC she was never allowed to be wrong, never allowed to do anything bad. She was, and still is Saint Sam. She's more saintly then Sabrina ever was, and that is something I didn't think was possible. She's everyone's victim. Its ridiculous the lengths that this show goes to, to prop her.

[texastornado]

Lucas (who?), who apparently didn't get invited to eat with any of his many families.

Yesterday, Carly mentioned that Lucas was bringing Joss to the hospital for the "dinner" but they should all eat before the food got cold.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

 

Oh no. I don't care if Lulu started shooting puppies tomorrow and then shot herself. I do not want Valerie and Dante together in any way shape or form.

 

So much delicious Schadenfreude as pouty Lulu complains to Big Mama while Valante climax in Lulu's bed! I'm sure that Lulu's overall shrewish bossy nature, baby rabies, and daddy worship have a big hidden part in driving Dante to this desperate fling with Val. When is Lulu not self-righteously screaming at him or (when she is happy) endlessly verbalizing the stressful details of embryo implantation?

 

Honestly, it's time to declare that I don't blame Dante for fleeing to Val's arms. For Lulu, marriage is all about babies and reproduction. Poor Dante or any other man would naturally feel a lack of romance, passion, and interpersonal intimacy. This lack would wear down the marriage, I think. I'm not defending infidelity; I'm just saying that the constant pressure that Lulu exerts for babymaking would not be ideal for a full mature marriage, IMO.

 

[Dandesun]

Yesterday, Carly mentioned that Lucas was bringing Joss to the hospital for the "dinner" but they should all eat before the food got cold.

 

Are they swimming their way from Australia? Is that why the family shouldn't wait for them?

[Tiger]

Dante has been Patrick'ed. Not that he hasn't already been pretty much. But I'm just sitting and staring (at recaps) wondering who the hell is this person? Dominic Zamprogna playing some random dude.

You or someone wrote in a recent post that I can't find that a big part of Dante's appeal was that he was a nice normal guy. From a dude's perspective, he was someone you wanted to have a beer with. Now he's a generic douche.

Anyway, didn't Dom do some interview this past summer wherein he mentioned working on outside projects? I wouldn't be surprised if Uncle Frank read that and ordered Ron and now Shelley & Jean to destroy Dante as revenge on Dom for daring to do non-GH work.

[ulkis]

Honestly, it's time to declare that I don't blame Dante for fleeing to Val's arms. For Lulu, marriage is all about babies and reproduction. Poor Dante or any other man would naturally feel a lack of romance, passion, and interpersonal intimacy. This lack would wear down the marriage, I think. I'm not defending infidelity; I'm just saying that the constant pressure that Lulu exerts for babymaking would not be ideal for a full mature marriage, IMO.

 

Dante was the one to bring up babies this go-round first to cover for his cheating ass.

 

HE was the one who wanted them to get married in the first place. When she thought she was pregnant SHE was the one who was nervous and uncertain, meanwhile he was going out of his mind with enthusiasm. 

 

Dante is just as enthusiastic about kids as her, even more so probably. The problem with Lulu is just she's incredibly insecure about it, because of her medical problems.

You or someone wrote in a recent post that I can't find that a big part of Dante's appeal was that he was a nice normal guy. From a dude's perspective, he was someone you wanted to have a beer with. Now he's a generic douche.

Anyway, didn't Dom do some interview this past summer wherein he mentioned working on outside projects? I wouldn't be surprised if Uncle Frank read that and ordered Ron and now Shelley & Jean to destroy Dante as revenge on Dom for daring to do non-GH work.

 

I doubt he would do anything with Frank's permission, in fact I don't think he could. I'm sad to say this is just the case of the writers being morons.

[Ambrosefolly]

Yeah, she does. When Jake told her he knew Jake/Jason was his real dad he told her that he heard her and Laura talking and then she hilariously told him how wrong it was to eavesdrop.

 

Bravo, show! I don't know how you've done it, but you've finally found someone I want to slap more than Liz (though her smug, happy face when Jason revealed he didn't actually remember the Q Thanksgiving pizza tradition was plenty slapworthy.) I just want to slap both Dante and Valerie repeatedly. Is this going to be a new holiday tradition for them. Dante gets mad at Lulu. Valerie comes by to talk about her mom (she's dead you know) and then they screw in Dante and Lulu's house. Though I guess this time, they may not have defiled their bed, but just their couch. Lulu needs to burn that whole place down.

 

While I was on Ross' side on "Friends" during the whole "we were on a break" argument, in the previews when Dante hilariously/ridiculously asks how long he was supposed to wait, I could only hear Chandler's line "bullets have left guns slower" in my head.  Dante is seriously a piece of work. I know separation papers are probably a pre-cursor to divorce papers, but still. Dude, you're still married. This storyline has just proved time and again, despite Dante claiming to be wracked with guilt, he really wants to do fuck all to repair his marriage. Like his line earlier in the episode about how he didn't want to have to explain every phone call and every e-mail he got to Lulu. You idiot you don't have to explain every phone call and every e-mail you receive. Your wife kind of has a problem with you receiving e-mails and having intimate conversations with the WOMAN YOU SCREWED. He basically wants to have his cake and eat it, too. It's never once crossed his mind that he should distance himself from her. Clearly today proved why.

 

And Valerie! Ugh, at least today vindicated those who knew she wasn't truly sincere in wanting to let Dante go and hope for the best for Dante and Lulu's marriage. Once again she comes over with stories about her dead mom and their stupid traditions and then conveniently finds an excuse to stick around, then lunges for Dante the first chance she gets. And this is the woman who thought she had the moral superiority to lambaste Dillon for his cheap stunt at the Halloween party.

 

I'm just glad the previews show that this won't be another long held secret and that Lulu appropriately gets to put Dante on blast for not waiting one damn day. I know as a soap opera audience we want to have evolved from this Dynasty slap fights between women, but I don't care. After she, hopefully, knees Dante in the balls, I want Lulu to slap the crap out of her smug cousin.

 

Olivia shut up about you and your damn canolli. I am glad that Kristina got to meet her sister and spent some time with her other (better) family. It's a shame that Sam couldn't even make an appearance, especially considering Julian and Alexis are her parents.

 

Uh, Michael we get it you're proud that you're going to be a father. But stop putting Sabrina on display and constantly making an announcement about it as if you're trying to say "Look what I made." It was cute at first, but now it's annoying.

 

 

No, he doesn't. But honestly Jason wasn't even trying to start anything. He was just talking about not wanting to hurt Sam and Patrick basically had to puff out his chest and, basically, mark Sam as his property. I'm surprised he didn't bring her out to pee on her and make it official.

Funny you bring up Friends because I was thinking about that show. Ignoring the actually argument (Rachel said thought they should take, not said the needed to take a break) Chandler said something that justified Rachel's attitude, along the lines "You slept with the copy girl 3 hours after you broke up. Bullets leave guns faster!" Even when he thought they were over, he barely waited hours to bone someone else.

[Tiger]

Exactly. Who?

As if it wasn't clear Avery is the best character, as the camera panned out of that dinner in which she "talked" during the Thanks, the last shot, it looked like she was about to make a grab for one of the serving bowls.

Please tell they haven't re-cast the adorable babies playing Avery Bavery!?!

Whoever cast the babies they were using at least last spring and summer should be in charge of all casting. Well okay, they can share the job with whoever cast young Patricia and young Luke. And we know it wasn't Uncle Frank because a waxy 20-something dient get the part.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Tiger

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

filmgeek, just want you to know I pretty much want to give all of your posts huge standing ovations. Well, except I like Liz :) still, kinda. But you get the gist. :)

 

Aww, we all have our flaws. Hee! Just kidding. Thanks.

 

 

 

Dante was the one to bring up babies this go-round first to cover for his cheating ass.

HE was the one who wanted them to get married in the first place. When she thought she was pregnant SHE was the one who was nervous and uncertain, meanwhile he was going out of his mind with enthusiasm.

Dante is just as enthusiastic about kids as her, even more so probably.

 

Thank you! Yes, Lulu has had babies on the brain a lot, but she's never held a gun to Dante's head or forced him to have a family. I won't swear to this, because Dante and Lulu have never been a top couple for me, but I think - not only this time around - but when they initially wanted to start a family that was Dante's idea. Because of her family issues, Lulu was wary about marriage and kids and Dante was the one really selling her on the whole thing. So, if he were trying to use that as excuse for being a cheating ass, we could just add hypocritical bastard on top of being a horny douche.

 

 

Sam has been the Queen Bee for awhile. Under RC she was never allowed to be wrong, never allowed to do anything bad. She was, and still is Saint Sam. She's more saintly then Sabrina ever was, and that is something I didn't think was possible. She's everyone's victim. Its ridiculous the lengths that this show goes to, to prop her.

 

IMO I think the whole propping concept is overblown and overused a lot. And for me, I only consider a character being propped if they are not only always presented as being right, but that a whole busload of people praise them to the gills, including people who barely even know them. Just because Sam hasn't done anything outwardly objectionable like murder someone or keep someone's dead husband away from them or kept a paternity secret does not mean she's been written as a saint or never wrong. I'm pretty sure she was written as wrong about Silas when they were first getting together. She still breaks the law on occasion. She gets her friends arrested and is yelled at about it. She gets in stupid fights with nitwits and gets lectured by flight attendants. She has to beg her fiance to marry her because she had the audacity of being confused when her dead husband comes back to life. Other than, maybe Patrick and Emma, nobody inordinately sings her praises on the show. In fact, you have several people - including her own family - that don't give two shits about lying to her face. She's certainly not everyone's victim. 

 

It's not her fault that Liz is being written as the IMO desperate, pathetic loser she's been for ages.

 

I would much have the writing for Sam than for Liz and not just because Liz is pathetic or because Sam is some saint, but because she's actually been allowed to grow and mature and learn from her mistakes. That's not a bad thing and it's not being written as a saint.

[MissE]

Aww, we all have our flaws. Hee! Just kidding. Thanks.

 

 

Thank you! Yes, Lulu has had babies on the brain a lot, but she's never held a gun to Dante's head or forced him to have a family. I won't swear to this, because Dante and Lulu have never been a top couple for me, but I think - not only this time around - but when they initially wanted to start a family that was Dante's idea. Because of her family issues, Lulu was wary about marriage and kids and Dante was the one really selling her on the whole thing. So, if he were trying to use that as excuse for being a cheating ass, we could just add hypocritical bastard on top of being a horny douche.

 

 

IMO I think the whole propping concept is overblown and overused a lot. And for me, I only consider a character being propped if they are not only always presented as being right, but that a whole busload of people praise them to the gills, including people who barely even know them. Just because Sam hasn't done anything outwardly objectionable like murder someone or keep someone's dead husband away from them or kept a paternity secret does not mean she's been written as a saint or never wrong. I'm pretty sure she was written as wrong about Silas when they were first getting together. She still breaks the law on occasion. She gets her friends arrested and is yelled at about it. She gets in stupid fights with nitwits and gets lectured by flight attendants. She has to beg her fiance to marry her because she had the audacity of being confused when her dead husband comes back to life. Other than, maybe Patrick and Emma, nobody inordinately sings her praises on the show. In fact, you have several people - including her own family - that don't give two shits about lying to her face. She's certainly not everyone's victim. 

 

It's not her fault that Liz is being written as the IMO desperate, pathetic loser she's been for ages.

 

I would much have the writing for Sam than for Liz and not just because Liz is pathetic or because Sam is some saint, but because she's actually been allowed to grow and mature and learn from her mistakes. That's not a bad thing and it's not being written as a saint.

We'll just have to agree to disagree here because IMO, Liz has been written to know she has done wrong until Jasam needs a bad guy, and then they drag her back into it.  Sam absolutely is written as perfect and a saint. She's never allowed to be the bad guy, she's never allowed to be wrong. Even Carly and Sonny are written as being wrong occasionally, but not Sam. Everyone is always doing bad things to her. She's the perpetual victim. 

 

There was no need to destroy Liz in this story just for the sake of Jason and Sam. They could have easily played this as Liz being in the dark too, but they had to have a bad guy to be the big bad evil vs Saint Sam. It just wasn't necessary. Liz already played the bad guy for Jasam in the Danny paternity mess. She paid her dues with this couple. Its obvious that Jason and Sam are the endgame couple here, but apparently, they can't put them together without other characters beiing destroyed in the process.

 

Hell, even Patrick can't think about Robin, because its all about poor Sam, and her husband being back. Emma flat out said that she didn't want to talk about Robin, she was just worried that Sam was going to leave. Its beyond propping at this point because the writing is so heavy handed. Liz is an evil bitch, and Sam and Jason are the poor innocent little victims of her evil plans. Its lazy, and only makes me root against Jasam even more.

 

It would be one thing if I thought that the writers had any plans to redeem Liz after all this bullshit, but she's nothing but an obstacle for Jasam, who will just be backburned once this is all out. She'll be alone, probably have her kids taken away from her, while the writers just move on. Its gross that a veteran character is being treated this way.

Edited November 25, 2015 by MissE

[LeftPhalange]

Liez being a pathetic, crazy loser isn't on Sam. She's always been obsessed with men who aren't available, Jason in particular. Liez getting to this point was several years in the making. 

[ulkis]

Thank you! Yes, Lulu has had babies on the brain a lot, but she's never held a gun to Dante's head or forced him to have a family. I won't swear to this, because Dante and Lulu have never been a top couple for me, but I think - not only this time around - but when they initially wanted to start a family that was Dante's idea.

 

Pretty much. When Claudia was trying to seduce so she could get pregnant he told her "when I have a kid I'm gonna be married to that kid's mother." Another time he mentioned kids and she got quiet (when she was angsting over telling him about the abortion) and he asked, "is this because I mentioned kids? I don't want kids right now - I do want kids someday though." When she proposed to him he said "I want a life, I want a family with you." He's always sporadically mentioned kids before they ever got married.

 

Listing these points honestly less to prove my point and more to just dig through some nice memories after the crap that happened on screen today.

[MissE]

Liez being a pathetic, crazy loser isn't on Sam. She's always been obsessed with men who aren't available, Jason in particular. Liez getting to this point was several years in the making. 

Except she had moved on from Jason. She moved on with Nik, and then was starting something with Ewen until the writers decided that Jasam needed a bad guy. I saw Liz acknowledge onscreen that she made a horrible mistake with Danny, and that she wanted a fresh start after Jason died. 

 

Obviously that's on the writers, and not the fictional character Sam, but when the writing is always so heavy handed in favor of one character, its pretty obvious what they are trying to do here with this story, and Liz's involvement. Its lazy writing, and the writers have made it clear that the Liz character, who has been on this show for 20 years, and her fans, mean shit to them. They have a core group of characters they care about, and Sam is clearly at the top of that list.

 

I get that I'm a rare Liz fan on this board, but I have watched Liz be the bad guy for Sam for years, and it sucks. Especially when I know that she's once again going to end up alone, until they need her to be angst for Jasam again.

[backhometome]

Patrick and Liz have had crappy writing for a while. I don't get how its put on Sam. I think Patrick's crappy writing is more they dont want/care to write for him when KMc isnt around. 

[ulkis]

I get that I'm a rare Liz fan on this board, but I have watched Liz be the bad guy for Sam for years, and it sucks. Especially when I know that she's once again going to end up alone, until they need her to be angst for Jasam again.

 

The Liz fans on this board are not particularly rare. I think lots of us would like Liz again if/when they stop writing her like a nut. I also don't see anyone saying that the writing for Liz is fair. Plenty of Sam fans have chimed in on how they are dragging Becky/Liz under the bus.

[MissE]

Patrick and Liz have had crappy writing for a while. I don't get how its put on Sam. I think Patrick's crappy writing is more they dont want/care to write for him when KMc isnt around. 

What's happening to Liz now, is all because Sam and Jason need angst and a bad guy. The writers don't care about the Liz character. They care about Jason and Sam, and making sure they are clean and pure in all this mess. I mean, I think we can all agree that Liz is going to just be tossed aside after the whole town berates her for hurting poor Jason and Sam. She won't be redeemed, and she won't get any sort of POV when the fallout happens.