Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Chairperson Meow]

Jane Elliot is my new choice baby whisperer. The picture of SK calmed the baby down too. She even knew that was her tv dad.

Tell me again why we've seen Sonny with millions of kids, but I'm just now seeing the beauty that is Tracy Quartermaine hold a cute baby. It's like, I can see Tracy, AJ, and Micheal in ELQ all like on the phone, at the computer, doing business things, "Hold my calls!", passing Avery back and forth, feeding her, soothing her. Because Quartermaines stick together. Then Avery gets her toys all over the offices and they hire Duke as Avery's assistant to catalog and clean her toys. The Quartermaines are playing tea party and taking business calls. But instead we get kids who act like their 40 and are in Twilight.

[ulkis]

NuKiki was really struggling to remember her lines there

 

Did Michelle Stafford get a sunburn?

 

It would be nice/interesting to see Lulu get to admit to some jealousy to someone that her 45 year old mother-in-law can still get pregnant from a one night stand. Also, I missed whether Lulu thinks Ned is the father or not. Did they even bring that up?

 

I feel Michael, but at one point I was just like "just go home already".

 

NuRocco is not cute, alas.

[CPP83]

Some of us are old enough to remember Alan trying to murder Monica and Rick when they were having an affair -- blowing up the house they were having sex in.  As a teenager, I thought that was about as low as a soap villain could get (There were other bad guys, but even the Cassadines, when they eventually came along, were more cartoon evil.)

 

 

 

Some of us are old enough to have been watching since the show first aired as well.

 

I have watched GH since the very beginning. I am 70 now but the mind is still pretty good when it comes to recall. I am aware of Alan's crimes and many sins, but he did a lot to redeem himself also and prove he was a good man underneath it all, that he had a good bit of Lila in his heart and soul, not to mention Stu was always one of the great daytime actors to me and I miss him terribly.

 

For me it was watching Carly take her petty, cheap shots at the Q clan, as if she hasn't personally inflicted great misery on too many to name at this point in her life. That will always aggravate me to no end considering her past and present and certain future.

 

The Qs were far from perfect, they were a soap dynasty so they couldn't be, heh, but while they can be judged and criticized Carly, imho, needs to have a billion and a half seats first before she starts running her mouth about them.

[ulkis]

The monopoly scenes were the worst. Having Kiki apologize to Sonny? WTF. She and Morgan would have the dumbest babies.

 

Yes, that was extremely stupid. But it's not like Kiki is an actual character. They should just get out a cardboard cutout at this point.

[CPP83]

NuRocco is not cute, alas.

 

 

 

I concur. I  missed the old Ben as soon as they showed the new kid. He just needed a haircut goddammit!

[Chairperson Meow]

Yes, that was extremely stupid. But it's not like Kiki is an actual character. They should just get out a cardboard cutout at this point.

Aren't they just using a Bratz doll now?

[IWantCandy71]

Jane Elliot is my new choice baby whisperer. The picture of SK calmed the baby down too. She even knew that was her tv dad.

Tell me again why we've seen Sonny with millions of kids, but I'm just now seeing the beauty that is Tracy Quartermaine hold a cute baby. It's like, I can see Tracy, AJ, and Micheal in ELQ all like on the phone, at the computer, doing business things, "Hold my calls!", passing Avery back and forth, feeding her, soothing her. Because Quartermaines stick together. Then Avery gets her toys all over the offices and they hire Duke as Avery's assistant to catalog and clean her toys. The Quartermaines are playing tea party and taking business calls. But instead we get kids who act like their 40 and are in Twilight.

There was a scene back in the day, when Tracy was on a plane with Dillon, where Jane Elliot sat in her seat with her legs almost indian style, and rather than sit there holding the baby, she propped the baby up in the crook of her legs. I have never seen anyone "hold" a baby like that before or since, and it had to be all JE-but at the same time, it was totally a Tracy thing to do. I thought it was adorable.

[ulkis]

I concur. I  missed the old Ben as soon as they showed the new kid. He just needed a haircut goddammit!

 

Maybe one of those babies fussing almost every time ER held him had something to do with it ;) 

 

He didn't even need a haircut. I liked the little curls, so cute!

[Turtle]

I really cannot believe that Morgan and especially Kiki are supporting Sonny, especially after all that Sonny did to Ava, who they both claim to have loved. Sure, Morgan is a dumb dumb desperate for his dad's attention, but Kiki was never a huge fan. She should not even be speaking to him, much less defending him or APOLOGIZING TO HIM for not helping him kidnap her sister. I just don't believe that no one has mentioned the hostage-holding or murder-attempting (on the show; we've certainly brought it up!). Other than that, Michael has covered just about everything else, and I adore him.

Speaking of kidnapping, Puerto Rico, a U.S. territory, isn't the best place to avoid the long arm of the law.

Spinelli, ugh. Manufacturing a reason to go bug Maxie, literally begging her for leftovers -- it's all so disgusting. I really need him to go away. And I hate that Georgie had a health crisis right in the middle of all this.

Michael's face while announcing little Avery's new name was amazing. It was like he was smiling and smirking and shooting icy daggers with his eyes all at once. And that little baby chewing on his tie made it even better. Her being fussy better not be a sign of Michael getting overwhelmed and reaching out to Carly to help. Speaking of kids and icy daggers, the actor playing Rocco may not last for long.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Turtle

[Vella]

How many times has Sonny made ominous overtures to Michael?  Two? Three now?  All in front of Carly. 

 

Her ass STILL can't think to do anything to help her child. Even when "You're a good father" is so bold and uncaring as to threaten her kid right in front of her.

 

Not one damn word.

[IWantCandy71]

This may happen, but I think the circumstances are a bit different.  On the one hand there is Sonny, who is a convicted murderer, mobster (allegedly), shot his own wife in the head and son in the chest, and generally awful human being who quite literally ruins everything he touches.

 

For the most part AJ was just a drunk and he was fat.  And I don't even think he was fat.

Not really, because at the heart of the matter, both are keeping bio kids from their supposed parents. Kids love their parents, it didn't matter to Michael for years, what Sonny did. I don't think it would matter to Avery, either. All she would see is lies, unless of course Michael plans on being honest from the beginning.

[dubbel zout]

Maybe one of those babies fussing almost every time ER held him had something to do with it ;)

 

Remember the Dannys who kept trying to throw themselves out of KeMo's arms? Hee.

[IWantCandy71]

How many times has Sonny made ominous overtures to Michael?  Two? Three now?  All in front of Carly. 

 

Her ass STILL can't think to do anything to help her child. Even when "You're a good father" is so bold and uncaring as to threaten her kid right in front of her.

 

Not one damn word.

That's because Carly only cares about herself.

[HeatLifer]

How many times has Sonny made ominous overtures to Michael? Two? Three now? All in front of Carly.

Her ass STILL can't think to do anything to help her child. Even when "You're a good father" is so bold and uncaring as to threaten her kid right in front of her.

Not one damn word.

Sonny threatening Michael in that tone of his would have Jason rolling in his grave.

[CPP83]

Maybe one of those babies fussing almost every time ER held him had something to do with it ;) 

 

He didn't even need a haircut. I liked the little curls, so cute!

 

 

Heh, they had good taste. This new Ben looked tired and sleepy and bred, not that I blamed him.

 

The curls were cute but I thought his hair was getting a bit shaggy towards the end, a trim was due imo, but he was just adorable regardless. I will miss him, he had a nice chemistry with Dom and Maurice I thought.

Edited March 10, 2015 by CPP83

[TeeVee329]

I really cannot believe that Morgan and especially Kiki are supporting Sonny, especially after all that Sonny did to Ava, who they both claim to have loved. Sure, Morgan is a dumb dumb desperate for his dad's attention, but Kiki was never a huge fan. She should not even be speaking to him, much less defending him or APOLOGIZING TO HIM for not helping him kidnap her sister.

 

ALL of this.  Her abrupt about-turn makes absolutely no sense to me.

[ulkis]

Out of character, for Carly imo. And now that we have nuKiki I was hoping that Carly would start hating her as she would and should. Instead she plays monopoly with her, what the eff. Maybe Carly doesn't even notice Kiki is in the room.

 

I really cannot believe that Morgan and especially Kiki are supporting Sonny, especially after all that Sonny did to Ava, who both Of them claim to have loved.

 

 

Oh, I can. Has Kiki ever been consistent about anything, ever? Can anyone describe any facet of Kiki's personality? 

[jsbt]

Has Kiki ever been consistent about anything, ever? Can anyone describe any facet of Kiki's personality? 

 

It's Starr Manning, we don't need to! Wait, no.

 

I know I say this all the time and about many people, but him especially, and it's still true: Morgan is the dumbest motherfucker alive. "She'll get to see the world at an early age." Hahahaha! Morgan, you backwards piece of inbred shit. This is why I've always given him crap, this kind of behavior. It's not new, it's what he's always done to different people. If Julian told him Avery could be protected from Mean Mean Mikey by riding Julian's dick, Morgan would hop onboard while browsing Instagram. I don't know why I came up with a gay sex analogy but look, here we are, and it fits.

 

If they really wanted to play this drama out in an interesting way, they'd be honest about who Sonny is and what he is doing. The way he behaves and the way he's written is the opposite of what they are apparently going for - he is petulant, thick and tone-deaf. Have him lose his grip (and his meds) and go all-out against Michael, seeing him as A.J. reborn. Turn it into a real war for over a year. Have Carly and eventually even Morgan turn away from him (because no Carly - Laura Wright's included - would ever side with Sonny over Michael just for the sake of getting some dick). Let him become the delusional villain. That would be great story, but Ron is either too disinterested and distracted by his own pets (Franco, Nina, etc.) to play it, or the network won't allow it, or both.

 

You could even kick this all off for real at the next sweeps: Weird NuKiki (who is just awful) becomes collateral damage during a mob hit as a result of Sonny's own machinations against Michael and/or the Jeromes! He killed his kid's own sister! And then after a year of this bloodshed - including a vengeful Ava siding with Michael, or something - we finally find out what I have known all along, which is, guess what, Carly switched the fucking tests! This kid is Morgan's, and Carly switched the results because she unilaterally decided Morgan wasn't ready to have kids. I firmly believe that to be the truth.

And by the way, it's criminal how someone - whether it's Frank Valentini or the network or even Ron - has decided the hope for Michael Easton's future lies in shackling Maura West to his side. Ava is a great villain but she is not meant to be crying and weeping in rags or prison jumpsuits. She's meant to be dressed to the nines and scheming in swag digs, not hanging off a wooden, over-the-hill heartthrob who has no interest in performing. "You have cancer. I smelled it on you, just like Danny."

Edited March 10, 2015 by jsbt

[CPP83]

Can anyone describe any facet of Kiki's personality?

 

 

 

Moocher? Free loader? Shitty girlfriend? Shitty person period?

[dubbel zout]

Ava is a great villain but she is not meant to be crying and weeping in rags or prison jumpsuits. She's meant to be dressed to the nines and scheming in swag digs,

 

Ava should be Alexis Carrington, but I suppose they don't have the budget for even a cut-rate version.

Edited March 10, 2015 by dubbel zout

[ulkis]

It's Starr Manning, we don't need to! Wait, no.

 

I know I say this all the time and about many people, but him especially, and it's still true: Morgan is the dumbest motherfucker alive. "She'll get to see the world at an early age." Hahahaha! Morgan, you backwards piece of inbred shit. 

 

lol. I do think he was kidding, but everything else he said yesterday was pretty much just as dumb, so. 

 

Sonny may need to take someone else out in addition to Kiki in your scenario, because I would cheer him if he caused Kiki's death. Maybe Duke? "Noooo, I didn't mean to kill the old guy I met at that place somewhere!"

 

I do think she is going to be a goner soon somehow. I just can't believe they are serious with this girl.

[magnolia11]

Sonny may need to take someone else out in addition to Kiki in your scenario, because I would cheer him if he caused Kiki's death. Maybe Duke? "Noooo, I didn't mean to kill the old guy I met at that place somewhere!"

 

People accidentally run over cats all the time.  It could happen.

[IWantCandy71]

None of the newer characters have ever been well defined. I can't give even one word to describe Nathan's personality, either. Or Silas. Nina and Ava, other than being nutty, who are they? Other than being a mother and a Fed, who is Jordan?

 

It's part of the reason I started checking out. Too many characters, and the newer ones are not defined. And not being defined to me, equals boring. The worst part is, the writers don't know, either. And yet, they just keep bringing new ones in. Because it's a bait and switch thing, I guess. IDK why.

[jsbt]

lol. I do think he was kidding, but everything else he said yesterday was pretty much just as dumb, so.

 

Sonny may need to take someone else out in addition to Kiki in your scenario, because I would cheer him if he caused Kiki's death. Maybe Duke? "Noooo, I didn't mean to kill the old guy I met at that place somewhere!"

 

I do think she is going to be a goner soon somehow. I just can't believe they are serious with this girl.

 

I don't! Morgan is that stupid. He says shit that stupid without a hint of irony all the time. I think there are many horrific ways to kill Duke but I'd be down for that as well. It's time.

 

I can't believe it either. Notice NuKiki still has no friends, job or personality? I don't know why they did this unless it was to close out story. They can't possibly be remotely interested in this character without their baby girl in the role. They even had her saying to Morgan the other day, "New York is my home." So stay! Stay there! Bye!

[TeeVee329]

I thought they kept Kiki because she was going to be the one, with Michael's support, suing for custody.  But if she's just here to prop Sonny...I mean, we're not exactly lacking in characters to do that kind of thankless work, you know?

[dubbel zout]

I thought it was made clear when nuLauren was hired that it was only to mop up the Avery story. (Though it's not as if she's adding anything to the story by being in it.) She can leave town before it's widely discovered that Ava is alive—Sonny decides to put a hit on her because she's decided to support Michael, or whatever. Bing, bang, boom, Lauren is out of our lives for good.

Edited March 10, 2015 by dubbel zout

[ulkis]

sweet, Dante and Nathan are shirtless together in the previews.
 

here are the rest, cause I know they got preempted for some people

 

Carly says she wants to visit Jake to Sonny

 

Jordan tells Anna it could be an all out mob war

 

Spin and Sam

 

Patrick and Jason

 

Duke, Shawn and Jules meeting in the rain

 

Lulu and Maxie

[jsbt]

I thought she was just a temp too, then people said she had a real contract. I still think she's not for real. Blow her up! Another Sonny casualty.

[dubbel zout]

Lauren was shoehorned into the show in the first place. 

[ulkis]

None of the newer characters have ever been well defined. I can't give even one word to describe Nathan's personality, either. Or Silas. Nina and Ava, other than being nutty, who are they? Other than being a mother and a Fed, who is Jordan?

 

Oh, Nathan has no personality either. But at least he, and the other characters, at least have some consistency.

 

Nathan - likes Maxie and Nina. Exercises, heh. At least we see jogging and working out is a thing with him. I cannot name any Kiki habit.

 

Silas is cranky. Nina is crazy. Ava likes to drink, scheme, and loves her kids. Jordan doesn't have much personality, but same with her, she has a job and loves her son. And Shawn.

 

Kiki has no job, no friends (except Morgan I guess). She's not consistent in loving her mom or Franco (especially now that she's NuKiki) or even Michael. At least with Jordan, if she started treating TJ like shit I'd be like what's going on here? If Kiki started bitching out Morgan tomorrow I would just be like, welp, it's Kiki. So who knows how she's gonna feel about anyone at any given moment.

 

You're right, the show is filled with lots of random characters with no distinctive traits really but imo Kiki is the worst of the lot. Not necessarily the least tolerable but just the least effort put into her.

Edited March 10, 2015 by ulkis

[barkley]

Sonny playing Monopoly? seriously show? What happens when he has to go to jail, does he pull out a gun and yell "I'm not going back!" and shoot a hole through the table? Carly was disgusting as usual - nice of her to simply hide her face in her hands as the mobster tells her son how he's going to break him.

 

Morgan can just go DIAF.

 

Loved Michael today, and that's a sentence I never thought I would write after having to put up with Chucky Corinthos all those years.

 

I'll trade NuKiki for 2 days of Monica welcoming ittle AJ home, although I did love Tracey giving Michael some support.

[TeeVee329]

Oh, Nathan has no personality either. But at least he, and the other characters, at least have some consistency.

 

Nathan - likes Maxie and Nathan. Exercises, heh. At least we see jogging and working out is a thing with him. I cannot name any Kiki habit.

 

How could you forget "speaks French"! 

 

And he has a friendship with Dante.  Kiki has ZERO friends, just an ex-husband.

[ulkis]

oops, I meant Nathan likes Maxie and Nina, the board is not letting me edit right now.

 

How could you forget "speaks French"!

 

j'ai blocked that out :)

 

Oh, and actually, Nina really likes horses. If only she could ride one out of town.

[OnceSane]

Monopoly, how could you betray me like that you bitchslutwhoretramp! I'll never play you again!

I can't decide which was better: The lovely heartfelt Tracy/Michael "Qs stick together" scenes at the Quartermaine manse or the adorably hot Brad/Lucas scenes at the hospital. Maybe the Qs because Spinelli didn't show up there.

Speaking of Spinelli, when will Sonny order Shawn to murder Michael so Spinelli can be hit (& instantly killed) by the bullet intended for Michael? IDK why we should root for Spinelli right now because this is pathetic and gross.

[dubbel zout]

IDK why we should root for Spinelli right now because this is pathetic and gross.

I think they think they're writing Spin as charming. 

[Lillybee]

I like that Michael referenced the fact that he took care of Joss a lot when she was a baby. In fact, I remember when Joss had the kidney cancer, Snarly had to call Michael to find out if Joss had a fever recently.

I like that Michael referenced the fact that he took care of Joss a lot when she was a baby. In fact, I remember when Joss had the kidney cancer, Snarly had to call Michael to find out if Joss had a fever recently.

[jay741982]

Of Course Ava can't be around Kiki to slap her and remind how Sonny was going to fucking kill her after the baby was born. Ron is such a hack. Hayley Erin can't seriously think Kiki isn't a idiot.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Monopoly, how could you betray me like that you bitchslutwhoretramp! I'll never play you again!

 

Sonny ruins everything. Even perfectly good board games.

[Sake614]

 But instead we get kids who act like their 40 and are in Twilight.

 

 

 

 

And 40-year-olds who act like children ::coughNina/Francocough::

[Tiger]

That mooch Spinbitch mah-nipple-lating Dante, ya know that cop he gleefully conspired to murder, into getting Nathan away from Maxie made by blood boil. I don't know what happened to that Aztec knife, but someone, Felicia, Rocky, anyone needs to use it to gut that little maggot like a fish.

And poor Dante; he comes home to Spin in his home and then has to go deal with Franco & Nina. He needs to go find Anna and let her bang his trouble away!

It was great to see Felicia. KW continues to look banging.

Morgan being the banker was hilarious. The very notion that such a fool can count is hilarious.

I loved Michael & Tracy with that baby. This is the relationship Tracy & AJ should have had.

[One Tough Cookie]

I like RP with DZ, too, and it's nice that Dante and his partner are finally allowed to be mildly competent cops

 

.

The fact they are fine looking men doesn't hurt, right?

 

Carly I the worst.mother.ever.  She makes Cersei Lannister look like Mother Teresea.  Someone mess with Cersei's children she KILLS THEM; Carly?  Someone overtly threatens her first born, what does she do?  SHE FUCKS HIM.  Mother of the Year material, no?

 

". I cannot name any Kiki habit. "  {should be in quotes, didn't work}

 

You forgot MOOCHING--she's a pro.

 

Morgan, keep taking those stupid pill, they are really working.

 

Can we PLEASE have Jane Elliot have a story line that doesn't revolve around Luke or Pickle Lila.  She's such a talent, and WASTED with her current storyline.  I'm such  big fan of hers, I will watch any scene she's in, even if it is with that asshat, Tony Geary.

Edited March 10, 2015 by One More Time

[WendyCR72]

.

The fact they are fine looking men doesn't hurt, right?

 

Carly I the worst.mother.ever.  She makes Cersei Lannister look like Mother Teresea.  Someone mess with Cersei's children she KILLS THEM; Carly?  Someone overtly threatens her first born, what does she do?  SHE FUCKS HIM.  Mother of the Year material, no?

 

 

Carly's kids would have been better off raised in trees.

[Lillybee]

When was the last time Snarly spent some time with her real bio. daughter, Joss? Does Joss even exist in her world. Michael should try and get custody of his other sister, too.

[WendyCR72]

When was the last time Snarly spent some time with her real bio. daughter, Joss? Does Joss even exist in her world. Michael should try and get custody of his other sister, too.

 

Joss is a terror like her mama. Unless Jax abducts her back to Australia and exorcises her mother's influence from her, I fear this kid is already doomed.

[cmahorror]

When was the last time Snarly spent some time with her real bio. daughter, Joss? Does Joss even exist in her world. Michael should try and get custody of his other sister, too.

 

Or just call Jax and tell him what is going on. Joss would be much better off in Australia and would probably welcome the attention. I guessing by this point she has already turned Carly's place into her own version of Home Alone, complete with paint cans above the doors.

Edited March 10, 2015 by cmahorror

[BestestAuntEver]

I still love that Michael is calling Avery AJ Quartermaine. He was right that those idiots were more upset at the baby being called AJ, than Sonny the mobster putting her life in danger.

Brad/Lucas were hot and sexy as usual. They never get enough screen time to me. They were only on for a few minutes. Ugh, some of those Franco /Nina scenes were long and pointless and could/should have been cut down.

I'm not hating Spinelli, yet. Yes, he's a passive aggressive little shit but BA can emote and act. IMO, RP is not very good and is called Det. Plywood for a reason.

[peachmangosteen]

And poor Dante; he comes home to Spin in his home and then has to go deal with Franco & Nina. He needs to go find Anna and let her bang his trouble away!

Dante really does need to have one of his trysts with Anna ASAP. Poor guy. I really feel for him. Honestly I think he should be the one to murder Spinelli. He deserves that pleasure.

 

Morgan being the banker was hilarious. The very notion that such a fool can count is hilarious.

I legit laughed out loud when I realized Morgan was the banker. That was actually genius and I thank whoever decided to do that.

 

Speaking of Morgan, he is truly pathetic. It's so sad. BC plays it beautifully though. He has Morgan's stupidity and pathetic need for Sonny's love down pat.

 

Wouldn't it be cool if Monica could have a scene with Michael/baby AJ? It's just so aggravating that they couldn't bring LC out for like 2 minutes to have one scene with them during this.

 

How can TPTB honestly think Carly/Sonny/Morgan/Kiki don't come off disgusting as hell? I mean it boggles my mind that they're writing them this way when it's obvious to me that we're supposed to root for them. It's just, I feel like Morgan trying to decipher a simple addition problem right now.

 

Kiki has always been stupid and awful, but it is so pointless and unbelievable that she is now Sonny's biggest cheerleader. It makes absolutely no sense and it's just further proof that this story is all bout how wronged Sonny is being by Michael. Otherwise they would've done the logical thing and had Kiki on Michael's side. But no, he's not even allowed to have an idiot on his side. FLAMES!

 

Can they please stop having Spinelli in scenes with people I don't hate because I need to fast forward that abomination or else I see red and have a rage blackout.

 

I can't deal with Maxie/Nathan anymore. Added them to my fast forward list. I also couldn't watch the Franco/Nina scenes.

 

Lucas/Brad continues to delight me immensely.

Edited March 10, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[peachmangosteen]

Oh, I forgot to mention that Rocco seems to be rocking Danny's murder eyes. I'm scared of what will happen if those two are ever in the same room.

Edited March 10, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[RedRockRosie]

 

Of Course Ava can't be around Kiki to slap her and remind how Sonny was going to fucking kill her after the baby was born. Ron is such a hack. Hayley Erin can't seriously think Kiki isn't a idiot.

This! My god, does Kiki only have a 5 minute memory? This shoeblackened face hair skeevey little moobster tried to KILL her mother!! How in God's name could she ever EVER side with him?? W. T. & F.

[jay741982]

This! My god, does Kiki only have a 5 minute memory? This shoeblackened face hair skeevey little moobster tried to KILL her mother!! How in God's name could she ever EVER side with him?? W. T. & F.

Don't get it either. Michael has pointed out how stupid she looks reminding her that Sonny would have killed her mom if HE didn't stop it! I'm guessing Kiki is letting it slide since Sonny tried to save Ava from her eventual "death". But her calling him a bad son was sickening I was like BITCH you and his brother are two of the reasons he's "Bad" which Micheal again reminded her of. I wanted to like Kiki with this new recast but the writers still make her a moron. I'm hoping maybe Micheal lets Kiki see her little sis BUT ONLY her. Then she starts seeing Michael be good to little Avery and Kiki starts changing her tune.

I just started this epsiode. TIA to anyone warning me of more angerinducing Kiki supporting her mother's would be Murderer and Kiki/Morgan/Sonny/Carly horribleness