Episode Discussion: TFGH

[dubbel zout]

14 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

You'd think soap writers would be smart enough to see the inherent drama in Joss hating the man her mother marries because of all the shit that man has pulled on her father.  Instead, it's "Uncle Sonny's a cool badass mobster!  Squee!!!"  

Hey, Sonny takes Joss out on the boat all the time! What's not to love about that?

The  boat on the lake is the kid version of the island and a dress.

15 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

On a related note, I'm so tired of hearing Ava or Sonny whining about the other being the parent of their child.  Hey, geniuses?  If you hadn't fucked in a crypt, this wouldn't have happened.  It's not like fate just randomly chose the two of you to co-parent a child.  You did this, and you're both certainly old enough to know where babies come from.  Shut the hell up and keep it in your pants next time.  

Seriously. Though I'm ready for Morgan to be revealed as Avery's father. Just to see Sonny's reaction would be worth it, even though Morgan can't take care of breakfast for himself.

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I found Nik sorta enjoyable in yesterday's ep tbh. I don't know, I'm just embracing his horribleness I guess. It is pretty funny. And TC seems to be actually trying nowadays so that's nice.

I like that TC is making Nik's douchiness peevish, too. Like he knows it's ridiculous the show is painting Nik as some poor put-upon victim here.

[ulkis]

Do you really think they're gonna reveal Morgan is the father? I used to, but I've given that up. Not that I think Morgan needs to be a dad but it's not like he's gonna be taking care of Avery anyway. 

[Oracle42]

Ugh.  Ava/Scotty had potential, dammit. 

But that bodyguard shit? The. Fucking. Worst. And painfully stupid

Why do these writers do the dumbest possible thing in any given situation?

[jsbt]

So I'm bingeing these week's messy-ass shows on Hulu out of curiosity since Lucy and Robin have been on recently, and I will say I think that despite some histrionics (some of which were necessary for the story) I actually felt the Julian/Alexis reveal scenes were fairly well-written and performed. deVry has always been best at playing a creepy villain, and he was very creepy here as he calmly tried to coax and cajole a horrified, tortured NLG. It was two people in two totally different places and both the writing and the actors sold it.

What I found disgusting, however, was the subsequent scenes where manly Sonny comes in, hugs poor Alexis and says she's dead to him and now he can do anything to her, hurt her just like Julian and threaten her, just so the writers can jizz over repeating an old Godfather II scene for the 99th time. Pair that with the same episode's Mansplain with Franco showcase, where the rape-loving serial killer cuts eyes at rape victim Liz for not being a good enough parent to the child he kidnapped in infancy, and for not appreciating his serial killer wisdom while repackaging the accursed line Roger Howarth has recited approximately 200 times throughout his career: "You're basically the closest thing I have to a friend, [Elizabeth/Carly/Blair/Téa/Rebecca/Sam/Evangeline/Meg/Emily/C.J./Sarah/Moose the parrot]." That was a horrific look for the show and it infuriated me. The RHs do have some basic chemistry but it will never, ever work with Franco, and frankly (haha!) the show cannot handle bringing him back as yet another character too because he has become so fucking toxic. Kill him and move on.

I thought Genie Francis gave an incredible performance finally getting her own space to talk about Laura's rape, but I don't understand why they insisted on dredging this up again. Yes, Helena would absolutely make her go to the campus disco just to hurt her but what is the point of this plot point? I don't see it, and I also have no idea why the campus disco looked mostly pristine since it has to have been closed for decades. Lindstrom and Francis still have mostly friendly chemistry but whatever, I'll watch this minor subplot. Lynn Herring looks fantastic, but this tryhard new Nurse Amy Frank is trying to put over must die.

Could not give two fucks about Sabrina or her baby, though I like seeing Jane Elliot with an infant. And I like Finn, despite myself. More as it happens! I enjoy being days behind the discussion!

[Chairperson Meow]

2 hours ago, P3pp3rb1rd said:

Would be 'way cool for that bearded dragon lizard to escape and be discovered amid Lucy's underwear or peeking out of her bra or cleavage.

I'm also wondering if Zabreeeeena and her large baby will be reunited by May 24 so she can sing "I'm not alone anymore" to it in a sappy scenario.

Obviously.   With Michael smiling like an idiot beside them, as Sonny gleefully plots to take over/take out Eduardo because he is the son of Carrrrlos.   

[Cheyanne11]

I'm not an Ava fan, but I feel like I should be wearing a #TeamAva shirt any time the subject of Avery comes up in regard to custody.  Sonny and Carly have some big balls acting as if they are not only somehow better at parenting than Ava, but that they weren't going to do exactly what Ava has said she wants to do, that being cut them out of Avery's life.  Hell, Carly still acts like SHE'S Avery's rightful mother.  SmugCarly is only slightly less rage-inducing than #FakeLaughCarly, so her acting like she got one-up on Ava yesterday?  Flames on the side of my face.

My only thought on Sabrina's return is it looks like TC put some lighter highlights in her hair and it looked good.  Otherwise, snoozeville. 

[TeeVee329]

17 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

And wasn't he [Nikolas] seemingly blackmailing her [Lucy] to get her vote back then?  Did they just drop that?  

That was the speculation around these parts when that spoiler came out, but no, Lucy seemingly voted for Nikolas of her own volition because Michael was (GASP!) mean to Duke and (DOUBLE GASP!) took Avery away from Sonny.  It was a bad color on Ms. Coe.

Edited May 21, 2016 by TeeVee329

[testardo]

30 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

That was the speculation around these parts when that spoiler came out, but no, Lucy seemingly voted for Nikolas of her own volition because Michael was (GASP!) mean to Duke and (DOUBLE GASP!) took Avery away from Sonny.  It was a bad color on Ms. Coe.

thanks for reminding me why I don't like Lucy anymore. Team Doc and Laura ?  Lucy needs a gigantic box of STFU. Tiic  can ruin a character in twenty seconds.

[TeeVee329]

I still love Lucy, which means I've done my best to blot that bullshit from my mind and thus didn't appreciate the reminder.

Lucy was high octane on Friday, but I did appreciate Dillon sincerely saying that the Nurses' Ball is always a success because of her hard work because true.

Relatedly, two questions I have about Kiki/Dillon from Friday.  1) Why was Kiki acting like she's never been in the Nurses' Ball before?  Yes, that was Kristen Alderson with all Kiki's frrrrriiiiieeeeennnnnds, but it's still the same character.  And 2) if Dillion starts dating her, will there be any discussion about the year she was screwing his cousin Michael, during which she also worked at his family business?

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

Do you really think they're gonna reveal Morgan is the father? I used to, but I've given that up. Not that I think Morgan needs to be a dad but it's not like he's gonna be taking care of Avery anyway. 

I don't know. There is groundwork for it, but I suppose it depends on what they want to do with Morgan's relationship with Sonny. I could see Sonny insisting on keeping Avery with him, because of Morgan not being ready to take care of Avery and Morgan getting bent out of shape. This could parallel Michael wanting to be with Sabrina and her baby and Sonny not liking that. It might be too much of Sonny as paterfamilias, though. The show doesn't like to emphasize that aspect of Sonny, even as we're beaten over the head that Sonny Loves His Kids.

As I wrote, the main reason I want Avery to be Morgan's is to see the expression on Sonny's face when it's revealed. Bonus points if Carly knew and kept it from both of them. Betraaaayal! Heh.

[ulkis]

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

As I wrote, the main reason I want Avery to be Morgan's is to see the expression on Sonny's face when it's revealed. Bonus points if Carly knew and kept it from both of them. Betraaaayal! Heh.

I need this, because at this point watching scenes with Carly lately make me feel like I gorged on a giant bag of candy.

Edited May 22, 2016 by ulkis

[jsbt]

On May 18, 2016 at 5:38 PM, fishcakes said:

This show is so cheap, they not only couldn't show us a flashback from the disco years, but they also gave us some generic Muzak instead of paying the royalty on Herb Alpert's Rise, which I assume isn't more than twelve cents and some pocket lint these days.

Yeah, this drove me nuts. They couldn't even be bothered to just show old footage of the goddamn campus disco.

[Oracle42]

2 hours ago, jsbt said:

Pair that with the same episode's Mansplain with Franco showcase, where the rape-loving serial killer cuts eyes at rape victim Liz for not being a good enough parent to the child he kidnapped in infancy, and for not appreciating his serial killer wisdom while repackaging the accursed line Roger Howarth has recited approximately 200 times throughout his career: "You're basically the closest thing I have to a friend, [Elizabeth/Carly/Blair/Téa/Rebecca/Sam/Evangeline/Meg/Emily/C.J./Sarah/Moose the parrot]." That was a horrific look for the show and it infuriated me. The RHs do have some basic chemistry but it will never, ever work with Franco, and frankly (haha!) the show cannot handle bringing him back as yet another character too because he has become so fucking toxic. Kill him and move on.

 

 

Now is a pretty perfect time for a Who Killed Franco murder mystery. 

[Bringonthedrama]

5 hours ago, Chairperson Meow said:

I was hoping that they'd do this epic death scene with Dr O and a bunch of red balloons and that old syringe Finn uses.   Sigh.   

My ultimate preference is for Dr. O to die by the syringe she tried to kill Robin with, that Robert took in the chest instead (which put him in a coma for a year). That would be some small measure of poetic justice.

Have I missed any mentions of Lucky? I think JJ is too good for the show, but my selfish little heart wants Lucky to return (since the announcement of no more "Nashville,")deliver a smackdown to Dr. O about hiring the freak who tied his sister to a bomb and kidnapped his newborn son from the hospital. Then he can deliver a second public smackdown to Franko for trying to gain redemption through Elizabeth and working with Jake. I think Lucky could get through to Liz about moving past the Franko, Jason and Sam crap. I also would love to see him flat out tell them not to speak of violence or Sonny's business in the vicinity of Jake, ever.  In response to Sam's righteous indignation that they would "NEVER..." he'd respond that Jason and Sonny had good intentions with Michael as well, intending to keep him away from the biz and violence...but he grew up to end up killing two people and spent time in prison for one of those incidents. And Lucky has a right to speak, since he raised Jake from newborn to almost 4 years old. Jason's only been in the Daddy role for almost a year. 

[Chairperson Meow]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't know. There is groundwork for it, but I suppose it depends on what they want to do with Morgan's relationship with Sonny. I could see Sonny insisting on keeping Avery with him, because of Morgan not being ready to take care of Avery and Morgan getting bent out of shape. This could parallel Michael wanting to be with Sabrina and her baby and Sonny not liking that. It might be too much of Sonny as paterfamilias, though. The show doesn't like to emphasize that aspect of Sonny, even as we're beaten over the head that Sonny Loves His Kids.

As I wrote, the main reason I want Avery to be Morgan's is to see the expression on Sonny's face when it's revealed. Bonus points if Carly knew and kept it from both of them. Betraaaayal! Heh.

Avery being Morgan's kid would make sense of Carly's actions.  She does not care this much about any of Sonny's other alleged bio kids.  She has a daughter.   Therefore,  if she's hiding Avery's true paternity to protect Morgan, that makes sense and is a very good story.  It's way better than the crap being written now with Sabrina, etc.  CD must be pissed because everything good writing wise for Michael is basically AJ related.   So, address the drunk elephant in the room and quit wasting time.   Let Michael and Morgan work together and vow to not be AJ/Jason nor let Sonny come between them.  

[mostlylurking]

The character of Alexis is ruined beyond repair in my book.  Julian was rough, but he spoke the truth. She knew who he was when she agreed to be his wife, and if she's really surprised by any of this she's a fool. I almost couldn't watch the scenes of her being so tortured by these truths, it was beyond embarrassing to see a once strong woman reduced to this. I would much rather her be an unapologetic Julian supporter who doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks. This sniveling basket case is unwatchable!

[jsbt]

I don't think it's in character for Alexis to ever not be tortured about this, to ever not try to delude herself. It's who she's always been, at war with herself and her desires for all kinds of dark men, going back to brother Stefan. I do think there was a way to evolve her to understanding this better and owning it, but I think her just signing up with Julian for a life of ride or die is not who she is. Not since she's had children.

The problem is that the show does not see the dissonance between Alexis balking at the depths of Julian's unrepentant criminality and her refusal to burn the last of his guilt in the fire - two choices which I believe are absolutely her character and correct - and Alexis's continued push-pull relationship with Sonny between cordiality, love and longing. Alexis has written off Sonny many times and it never lasts, she always goes back to sniveling and begging for his help or forgiveness like last week or politely tolerating him and his dimples. The problem is that the show sees this as logical behavior, not a symptom of codependence.

There are not 'levels' of evil in Julian vs. Sonny, they are the same kind of man in the same business for the same personal reasons. She can't be horrified by Julian and then continue to lie to herself about Sonny - or she can, which I think is in character actually, but the show can't, which it absolutely, totally does. It sees Sonny as the better man, the 'good mobster'. That's got to stop and it never will.

I think Julian is cruising for death and I think he absolutely has it coming. It makes for good drama, but the drama is damaged when it's made to headline Sonny as the better man/alternate choice. It should be about Alexis and her husband's end and her acknowledgement of the life choices with men like Sonny, Jerry, Ric, etc. which has led her to this ultimate conclusion, period.

tl;dr: I don't have a problem with Alexis balking at Julian - I have a problem with the show seeming to see her POV of Julian vs. Sonny as objective.

Edited May 22, 2016 by jsbt

[Chairperson Meow]

The problem with killing Julian becomes who is Sonny's next Teh Evil?  Then what?  It must be a man because they will be compared to Sonny, who is the best man ever.  

[KerleyQ]

5 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

 

Now is a pretty perfect time for a Who Killed Franco murder mystery. 

Isn't any time a pretty perfect time for a Who Killed Franco murder mystery? 

[Vella]

YES. Yes to everything jsbt said.  Although this show's notion that Alexis needs Sonny's help for ANYTHING is far more of a cry of out of character behavior than what's going on with Julian.  Her needing him to get Kristina under control? Bull. Her needing him to get Kristina into Yale? Her Alma mater, her background, her family, her influence and connections? Bullshit.  But then again, this is the same show that had Anna needing Sonny's help for spy stuff.  You know, the world Anna has lived and breathed in for 40 years.

This show is crippled by its unwillingness to pick a side when it comes to characters like Jason and Sonny and it shows time and time again.

[Asp Burger]

Yeah, I too liked TC's performance as Nikolas on Friday's show, and I have to admit, he and Rebecca Budig have something. I find myself wanting the show to keep that love/hate relationship alive instead of moving them off with other people. I was only on-and-off as an All My Children viewer, and far more "off" than "on." It's only now that I get why (as I called her) Greensleaze was a fan favorite despite all the hideous things she did. Budig always gives 100 percent to every shit story she's handed, doesn't she? 

This Sonny/Carly/Ava/Avery story: I don't get what they're going for. Are we actually supposed to root for the baby to stay at Sonny and Carly's? I know these two have deprived parents of custody before, but isn't this a bit much? It isn't about Ava being "better." I don't care if Ava runs a puppy-killing mill; we all saw the scene in which she was going through something difficult and Sonny offered to temporarily help out by housing the kid, and she trusted him to honor that. Now it's supposed to be fair game that they're playing hide-the-baby, and it's dragging on for weeks and months, Carly is doing little furtive sabotages and looking smug while saying "Screw you, bitch"? Even by General Hospital Sonny/Carly rules, I don't get it. I just need someone to explain why even their fans would be happy about this.  

Unpopular opinion: I only minded Sabrina in the early ugly-Betty days, because it was one of those stories you could see coming from a thousand miles off -- she was going to take off her glasses and get a better hairstyle and be a beauty, because every television viewer and no television character can see past glasses and bad hair (except for the designated fairy godmother character who does the makeover). Days viewers had already seen it in the '90s with Ghoul Girl (Chloe), and it was hardly new then. The only suspense was whether they'd go full-on cheese by breaking out the slo-mo for Sabrina's public coming-out as "newly" beautiful. But now that that's long in the past, I don't mind her, fundamentally. I can get behind a goodhearted soap heroine. It would be boring if they were all Disney princesses, but I like the idea of Sabrina.    

I can't really hate Alexis, either. I've had years of reasons. Oh, so many years. The latest idiocy with Julian is just another layer on the cake. I wanted to hate her almost 20 years ago, when she and Ned were so intolerably smug, bonding about being their family "gatekeepers." But Nancy Lee Grahn is another who always commits to whatever she has to do, whether it's the panic attacks with the paper bag over her mouth, throwing her sister's ashes around in the funeral freak-out, impersonating a man in that horrible Dobson story, having a nervous breakdown with runny mascara. Or just doing the steely-lawyer bits where they park her when she doesn't have anything else going on.  

I'd really like to believe Kiki is going to stick to her guns after telling Morgan she doesn't care anymore. I'll take the reprieve while it lasts. Summer of Killon, please! 

A light bulb went off when I was watching Lucy on Friday: Lynn Herring is the senior/master version of what Michelle Stafford tries to be as Nina. But Herring does it well and seems like a plausible human being; Stafford is like something that escaped from a government lab.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Asp Burger

[BlueberryJane23]

On May 21, 2016 at 9:30 PM, KerleyQ said:

And since Ava didn't tell Carly that she'd already donated the old crib until after Carly had the delivery held up, how did Carly know that halting the delivery would leave Ava with no crib?  Who would think that holding up that delivery would leave Ava with no choice but to leave Avery with Sonny and Carly?  Like Ava can't just have Avery sleep with her a couple nights, or, if all else failed, go stay in a hotel for a couple nights and get a crib in the room?  This was just ridiculously stupid.  

Don't they have Target?  Couldn't Ava just go out and buy a Pack 'n Play??  These people are just so useless.  

Edited May 22, 2016 by BlueberryJane23

[LeftPhalange]

This custody battle shit with Sonny and Ava is excruciating and it feels like it's being going on for a decade. Trying to pretend like either one of them is the better parent or has a moral high ground is absurd. And I still don't know what the point of this is since neither one of them has benefited from being stuck with this useless plot point baby. What's so hard about having them agree to joint custody and then moving the fuck on? These stupid writers can't end a story to save their lives. Damn Ron to hell for starting this. 

[fishcakes]

32 minutes ago, LeftPhalange said:

This custody battle shit with Sonny and Ava is excruciating and it feels like it's being going on for a decade.

Seriously. And how many times is Ava going to show up at Sonny's, say she's there to take Avery, be told by Carly she can't because Avery's either sleeping, eating, or playing and therefore can't be disturbed, and then say, "All right! But I'll be back! And then you'll never see Avery again!"

It would be one thing if Sonny and Carly were pouring all their parenting energy into Avery, but they're still hovering over their grown kids as well. In show time, Michael is supposed to be what, 25 or so? And yet he's never allowed to make any kind of decision or have any romantic relationship without getting into an argument with his parents about it and without them getting involved, either with or without his knowledge. Alexis was the same with Sam, who she never even met until Sam was an adult, and is now doing it with Kristina. The only reason Maxie and Lulu get to act like independent adults is because the show doesn't care enough about their parents to give them screen time. Soaps shouldn't shove their older characters into a closet, but I think even long-time viewers want to see the generations evolve and younger characters start to get the front-burner stories, and not just be plot devices for their parents. I mean, how many more times are we going to have to watch Sonny and Carly marry and divorce? How much longer do we have to pretend that Alexis having sex is hot and steamy and not just an embarrassing AARP inspirational film for active seniors? I'm not saying get rid of the older characters, but let's also not pretend that they're the audience draws that they were 20 years ago.

Or the shorter version: Avery should have been Morgan's kid all along.

[Asp Burger]

That was a brilliant post, fishcakes. The only place I differ is that I think Alexis/NLG has aged really well. If there's been work involved, it's been discreet and top-notch. She obviously didn't get a referral from Jackie Zeman, who was done in romantic stories after Roy in 2001, and I do believe the aging process and her attempts to combat it had something to do with it. 

NLG is someone who never seemed especially young to me and now doesn't seem especially old. She's perennially 45.   

Incidentally, am I alone in thinking the Maxie/Nathan/Claudette story is very similar to Bobbie/Roy/Melissa? They could bring Bobbie out for a scene in which she warns Maxie of the danger of not letting sleeping exes lie. Bobbie just couldn't let that go; she had to go to Chicago to see this mysterious Melissa. It's almost the same story, except for the city, and I think it's going to work out the same way. The ex, who has shown no sign of coming to Port Charles, will do so after the current fiancée makes the ill-advised out-of-town trip.  

Edited May 22, 2016 by Asp Burger

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, jsbt said:

It sees Sonny as the better man, the 'good mobster'. That's got to stop and it never will.

This is the biggest overall story problem with the show. You can't have Sonny's rivals do the exact same thing he does and somehow give him the moral high ground. It's fine if Sonny and people around him think that, but it shouldn't be something the show itself promotes.

2 hours ago, LeftPhalange said:

What's so hard about having them agree to joint custody and then moving the fuck on?

Seriously. Especially because it's another girl child. Tell me Sonny won't lose interest in Avery the instant she stops being an adorable toddler. And it's not as if he'd do the heavy lifting of parenting even with full custody. He just wants his possession.

45 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

How much longer do we have to pretend that Alexis having sex is hot and steamy and not just an embarrassing AARP inspirational film for active seniors? I'm not saying get rid of the older characters, but let's also not pretend that they're the audience draws that they were 20 years ago.

Why shouldn't we see Alexis having hot and steamy sex? That aspect of life doesn't stop just because she's over 35. I think NLG and WdV overdo things, but I like that it's acknowledged Alexis and Julian are crazy about each other physically.

[ulkis]

36 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

NLG is someone who never seemed especially young to me and now doesn't seem especially old. She's perennially 45.   

Yes! I've always thought too.

I do believe she has admitted to his facial work but like you said it looks good. 

[LeftPhalange]

49 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

Incidentally, am I alone in thinking the Maxie/Nathan/Claudette story is very similar to Bobbie/Roy/Melissa? They could bring Bobbie out for a scene in which she warns Maxie of the danger of not letting sleeping exes lie. Bobbie just couldn't let that go; she had to go to Chicago to see this mysterious Melissa. It's almost the same story, except for the city, and I think it's going to work out the same way. The ex, who has shown no sign of coming to Port Charles, will do so after the current fiancée makes the ill-advised out-of-town trip.  

I hope Claud comes to get tree and they leave town together, never to be seen or heard from again. 

[mostlylurking]

On a more shallow note Liz hasn't looked this good in months!  Really like her hair and makeup and she always has cute outfits. <small voice> I don't mind her with Franco. I know. I hate myself :(

[Chairperson Meow]

This show either needs to nut up and tell Mo that he's not the male lead or accept cancelation.   Let Billy Miller go on auditions if he wants.  Let Mo walk if he wants. Recast the roles,  kill them off.  The show will go on.    Jason and Sonny aren't the leads if they are these morally ambiguous monsters.   It should not revolve around them never ever being challenged and losing.  Victor Newman has Adam Newman and Jack Abbott and Billy Abbott.  Rick Forrester has Ridge Forrester.  Etc, etc.  This is the only soap where there's no challenge.   You know Sonny/Jason will win.   Being cast as one of their children isn't even attractive to an actor because you don't get a story unless your story directly affects Sonny.   Being cast as a love interest is even worse.   I don't know what's making this show worse tbh-  Mo, the undying Sonny fanbase, or the writing, or Frank's bad choices... or all of it.  But something needs to be done because I'm sick of soaps I watch getting cancelled when they can easily be saved.  

[Ambrosefolly]

17 hours ago, Chairperson Meow said:

The problem with killing Julian becomes who is Sonny's next Teh Evil?  Then what?  It must be a man because they will be compared to Sonny, who is the best man ever.  

Then when the new "big bad" comes along, we will get a scene with Sonny complaining about how this big bad lacks the ethics of the last big bad. He did it with the Zaccharass vs Jeromes, the Alcaraz vs Zaccharas. 

[fishcakes]

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Why shouldn't we see Alexis having hot and steamy sex?

Primarily because NLG is a terrible actress. I don't see hot and steamy in those scenes. I see her making the same face she makes when she's about to cry and all the grunting isn't helping matters either. But I never could stand Alexis, so mileage varies and all that. For me, it's not her age so much as it is the way I feel like her alleged sexiness has been pushed by the show when, yeah, not so much. In much the same way most people never want to hear about Sonny's dimples ever again is how much I never again want to hear about Alexis's rack. But the bigger point I was trying to make is that I just think it's weird that all the big romances and big love scenes, which are the bread and butter of soaps, go to the most played-out members of the cast. Meanwhile, we have Michael and Dillon living like monks, Curtis who's seeing a woman who'll only do it if it's a major holiday and there's recently been a death in her family, and Lucas and Brad whose relationship has taken place almost entirely off-screen.

[yowsah1]

On 5/21/2016 at 0:36 PM, dubbel zout said:

Hey, Sonny takes Joss out on the boat all the time! What's not to love about that?

The  boat on the lake is the kid version of the island and a dress.

Don't put that out in the universe!  Next thing you know, we'll end up with Jossy!

On 5/21/2016 at 2:18 PM, jsbt said:

I thought Genie Francis gave an incredible performance finally getting her own space to talk about Laura's rape, but I don't understand why they insisted on dredging this up again.

Emmy reel.

13 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Unpopular opinion: I only minded Sabrina in the early ugly-Betty days, because it was one of those stories you could see coming from a thousand miles off -- she was going to take off her glasses and get a better hairstyle and be a beauty, because every television viewer and no television character can see past glasses and bad hair (except for the designated fairy godmother character who does the makeover). Days viewers had already seen it in the '90s with Ghoul Girl (Chloe), and it was hardly new then.

The reason it didn't work on GH was because it's basically a teen story.  Making grown-ass adults do it just makes everyone involved look stupid.

And that's even before we get to Jason Thompson going all-out to tank it.

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Why shouldn't we see Alexis having hot and steamy sex? That aspect of life doesn't stop just because she's over 35. I think NLG and WdV overdo things, but I like that it's acknowledged Alexis and Julian are crazy about each other physically.

While I agree with the sentiment here, I do have to point out that the problem isn't that Julexis gets a lot of hot and steamy sex, it's that hardly anybody else does.

[Oracle42]

1 hour ago, yowsah1 said:

While I agree with the sentiment here, I do have to point out that the problem isn't that Julexis gets a lot of hot and steamy sex, it's that hardly anybody else does.

 

And that the sex was the entirety of their "story" 

[Lobsel Vith]

2 hours ago, yowsah1 said:

Don't put that out in the universe!  Next thing you know, we'll end up with Jossy!

We already had the nightmare that was Soily. I think we suffered enough for one lifetime. Do we really need to see Max carry Joss upstairs?

[jsbt]

Maurice Benard is not the man running the show or running it into the ground. As a working actor in a threadbare industry who has to rely on his own self-promotion for survival, he capitalizes on the leverage they give him and their dogged belief that Sonny is the money. But it's been demonstrated numerous times that if he is paid and fed, he will do as he's told.

The Mo excuse soured for me ten years ago. Guza started marginalizing him around then and while there's still been way too much Sonny worship then and now, Maurice is not writing or producing this show. Getting rid of Sonny (which need never happen provided the character is put in a different place) is not even a fraction as much of a priority for me as firing the fuck out of Roger Howarth once and for all, along with Michelle Stafford and at least 30-40% of the cast, 60-90% of the writers and at this point probably the executive producer as well. MB is not running this show, nor has he had Geary-level power in years and years. Fight the real enemy and the Sonny problem can be contained. It's been done before.

All that said - and this has nothing to do with Maurice, I think it's all on the production's lazy ideas - Avery should be a) Morgan's child and b) dead, and no, those options are not mutually exclusive. That child has no reason to exist.

Edited May 23, 2016 by jsbt

[Francie]

3 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

 

And that the sex was the entirety of their "story" 

And their performances and the settings were so over-the-top to the point that I was suffering second-hand embarrassment for them. And just plain embarrassment for us viewers.

[ciarra]

Quote

Sabrina in the early ugly-Betty days

Ugh.  Remember her "Upstairs/Downstairs" fantasy?   I'd say she acted like a pre-teen, but pre-teens are more sophisticated. 

[Kendall]

Nah, too much has happened for me to believe Maurice is just doing what he can and he has no choice but to use his little bit of leverage. I've seen him tank stories, his and others, just because he could. Other actors on the show that are in the same threadbare industry left a well paying job because it wasn't a "good," well paying job due to fact that the power of Maurice essentially hovered over their heads and stories.

I remember when other actors started joining Maurice's little fight club and shortly thereafter, their storylines picked up. That's just nuts to me. I had to actually give up the show years ago because it had become the Life and Times of Sonny. I only watch it now because this thread makes me laugh.

Susan Lucci wasn't just the star of AMC, but all of daytime and never did AMC become completely centered around her. Even when OLTL became What's Todd Doing Today, Roger Howarth chafed at it all and eventually left. Other than the interview where Maurice said that he ceded the show to Steve Burton, I've never heard of one instance where he was like, "for the sake of the show, my story needs to be modified". And, let's face it, he only "ceded the show" to Steve because he knew that he'd be in every storyline with him.

The worst part of what GH is doing now in regards to Sonny is that they go and get big name stars to play against him. What for? They'd do much better cycling out unknowns every six months to lose to him. Write his stories like telenovelas and just bring in a new crew of schmucks for each new one. Since it's impossible for Ava, Julian, Alexis, freakin' Anna and others to have a full fledged storyline outside of Sonny and just occasionally cross paths with him, stop asking the viewers to invest in these characters by writing these half stories that will be dropped like a rock if they become too popular and Maurice becomes twitchy because he's not in the middle of it.

[Sugarbaker]

On 5/21/2016 at 4:35 PM, Chairperson Meow said:

Avery being Morgan's kid would make sense of Carly's actions.  She does not care this much about any of Sonny's other alleged bio kids.  She has a daughter.   Therefore,  if she's hiding Avery's true paternity to protect Morgan, that makes sense and is a very good story.  It's way better than the crap being written now with Sabrina, etc.  CD must be pissed because everything good writing wise for Michael is basically AJ related.   So, address the drunk elephant in the room and quit wasting time.   Let Michael and Morgan work together and vow to not be AJ/Jason nor let Sonny come between them.  

That would be one hell of a story, but it seems like the writers and network want us to continue seeing Sonny as a still fertile baby-making stud muffin romantic lead. Why they aren't ready for him to go full (more than one grandchild) grandpa just yet, idk, why not, with three grown kids it happens. Plus, I don't think at this point Maurice would mind.

On 5/22/2016 at 8:37 PM, jsbt said:

The problem is that the show does not see the dissonance between Alexis balking at the depths of Julian's unrepentant criminality and her refusal to burn the last of his guilt in the fire - two choices which I believe are absolutely her character and correct - and Alexis's continued push-pull relationship with Sonny between cordiality, love and longing. Alexis has written off Sonny many times and it never lasts, she always goes back to sniveling and begging for his help or forgiveness like last week or politely tolerating him and his dimples. The problem is that the show sees this as logical behavior, not a symptom of codependence.

There are not 'levels' of evil in Julian vs. Sonny, they are the same kind of man in the same business for the same personal reasons. She can't be horrified by Julian and then continue to lie to herself about Sonny - or she can, which I think is in character actually, but the show can't, which it absolutely, totally does. It sees Sonny as the better man, the 'good mobster'. That's got to stop and it never will.

I think Julian is cruising for death and I think he absolutely has it coming. It makes for good drama, but the drama is damaged when it's made to headline Sonny as the better man/alternate choice. It should be about Alexis and her husband's end and her acknowledgement of the life choices with men like Sonny, Jerry, Ric, etc. which has led her to this ultimate conclusion, period.

tl;dr: I don't have a problem with Alexis balking at Julian - I have a problem with the show seeming to see her POV of Julian vs. Sonny as objective.

I swear the true drama and character driven aspects of these stories get left by the wayside. This show in particular goes out of its way to avoid them. It was completely cringe worthy when Carly was all "you settled for Julian (paraphrasing) because you couldn't have Sonny."

16 hours ago, BlueberryJane23 said:

Don't they have Target?  Couldn't Ava just go out and buy a Pack 'n Play??  These people are just so useless.  

I guess the entire point of the interaction was for Carly's little reaction there at the end, because honestly all Ava had to do was yes, go out and buy a temporary one at a big box store, or hell use Avery's old one. There was no reason it had to be the decorator's crib, or nothing at all. This show lives in a universe where  options exist.

14 hours ago, LeftPhalange said:

This custody battle shit with Sonny and Ava is excruciating and it feels like it's being going on for a decade.  And I still don't know what the point of this is since neither one of them has benefited from being stuck with this useless plot point baby. What's so hard about having them agree to joint custody and then moving the fuck on? These stupid writers can't end a story to save their lives. Damn Ron to hell for starting this. 

Exactly, this story could have been wrapped up last damn fall, but I'm guessing they like the Sonny./Ava interaction so they keep this long dead story afloat with repetitive scenes and dialogue. It makes no sense why Avery isn't Morgan's daughter, that is a minefield of story. Imagine Morgan dealing with his bipolar disorder/new fatherhood & co-parenting with Ava/Sonny and Carly...being themselves/his general petulant assholery. That would actually add a new dimension to the Corinthos family that hasn't been there since...well since Ric showed up.

[Chairperson Meow]

Firing MSt imo won't happen because I think Frank knows she's very, shall we say, talkative.    I also think Frank won't let Roger Howarth go, but for entirely different reasons.  I think another soap will snatch him up.  Which would be great for him and his fans because he could potentially play a better character and be on a better soap.  I do think that Roger Howarth will jump ship the moment he gets the contract he wants-  probably time to split between the coasts with his family.  I wouldn't blame him.   When he has good writing and he's on, he does great work.  Then again, so does a lot of the cast.   I won't berate the guy because he got chicken shit and at least tries to turn it into chicken salad without complaints on social media nor doing anything to his benefit.   He could've easily walked and said "No, fuck that.  I'm not playing Franco.  I want this other character. "  That's where I blame Mo.   It's that too much has gone on around Mo for me to believe otherwise.   Ted King gets popular?   He's gone.  Mo doesn't want to work with *insert actress here*?  She's gone.   BC kisses up to Mo?  Emmy reel.   Mo didn't like Ron/Frank calling his bluff over contract disputes?  Ron is gone.   Now, Julian Jerome gets kinda popular.  Look.  Watch Will DeVry be gone.   Every episode is pretty much about Sonny.  How great Sonny is, how awesome Sonny is, how is Sonny feeling.   Mo is the new TG.   Stay in your lane, Maurice.  It's 2016.  You're going to be unemployed soon if you keep this up because there will be no GH.  

[Francie]

Quote

Firing MSt imo won't happen because I think Frank knows she's very, shall we say, talkative.

 

I'm curious -- why would that matter? I don't see her in possession of any "blow the lid off of everything" secret.

Frank:  Michelle, we're letting you go.

Michelle: I'm going to take a page out of the Scientology playbook, and I'm going to out you if you go through with this.

Frank:  Yeah, the cat's be let out the bag on that one.

Avery should be a) Morgan's child and b) dead, and no, those options are not mutually exclusive. That child has no reason to exist.

They've created way too many pointless babies lately. We'd be better off without Maxie's baby, Olivia and Jerome's baby, or Sabrina and Carlos's. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by Francie

[Chairperson Meow]

23 minutes ago, Francie said:

 

I'm curious -- why would that matter? I don't see her in possession of any "blow the lid off of everything" secret.

Frank:  Michelle, we're letting you go.

Michelle: I'm going to take a page out of the Scientology playbook, and I'm going to out you if you go through with this.

Frank:  Yeah, the cat's be let out the bag on that one.

 

 

They've created way too many pointless babies lately. We'd be better off without Maxie's baby, Olivia and Jerome's baby, or Sabrina and Carlos's. 

Regarding MSt:   Frank doesn't seem like the kind of guy who tolerates any type of drama, like at all.   MSt is very opinionated and open with whatever.   I don't think she has any secrets that she can blow the lid on, but I think she'll give as many exit interviews as she can to whomever she can and badmouth whomever she sees fit.   Frank just probably imo would rather let her contract run out and then lowball her on a new one imo than fire her,  which would anger her even more.   Imo it seems like how he does things tbh with everyone,  so why would she be any different?   Plus, it avoids any bad press associated with people calling the character bad/her a bad hire.  

And yes, so many pointless babies.   I get Lante having one.   I am all for DZ holding babies because he's adorable when he holds them, but we didn't need Spinelli procreating.   No matter what Maxie uncovers about Claudette, Nate Dogg always has the clapback that she banged Spinelli and you cannot come back from that.   I like Carrrrlos having a baby because it gives me a little piece of Carrrrlos around, but with the two most boring people probably eventually tearing him away from Our Queen....that kid is doomed.  Olivia and Julian didn't need a baby at all.   I'm still pissed that kid cost Ned his shares or someone ELQ shares.   What's next?  A Julexis baby?  Vomit.   We need twenty/thirty something adults and a teen set.  SORAS the kids, hide the babies, and bring on the illegitimate kids we all know AJ, Ned, Johnny Z, Tony Jones, Alan, Stephen Lars, and Scotty have out there.  I'm very big on an AJ son because CD and LW need a good story and that's a perfect one.  

[CreamedPeas]

I'm getting excited about the Nurses Ball. My snack choice will be popcorn and M&M' s.  

[Cattitude]

ugh the nurse ball is tomorrow right. As a newbie watcher I just can't with all that camp. hard pass.

[CreamedPeas]

I understand, Cattitude. I'm cringing in embarrassment through most of it but I still like watching it. Or, it could be, that I'll make any excuse to eat popcorn and M&M' s.....

[Francie]

Regarding MSt:   Frank doesn't seem like the kind of guy who tolerates any type of drama, like at all.   MSt is very opinionated and open with whatever.  I don't think she has any secrets that she can blow the lid on, but I think she'll give as many exit interviews as she can to whomever she can and badmouth whomever she sees fit.   Frank just probably imo would rather let her contract run out and then lowball her on a new one imo than fire her,  which would anger her even more.   Imo it seems like how he does things tbh with everyone,  so why would she be any different?   Plus, it avoids any bad press associated with people calling the character bad/her a bad hire.  

I agree in part, and disagree in part. I don't think Frank tolerates much drama, but that's largely because he never acknowledges it. He doesn't need to accommodate in order to avoid it when he can simply ignore it altogether. Logan and Ron were having blow ups. Tony Geary and Ron were going at it. Bryan threatens to break our fingers. And Frank's typical reaction is: [crickets chirping].

[Cattitude]

I'm not sure where the MSt stuff is coming from b/c when she left Y&R she was nothing but professional and never said an unkind word. She mostly said nothing about her reasons other than wanting to pursue other things and being done with a character she played for so long. There were lots of behind scenes drama at Y&R but she has never commented much on them.

[LeftPhalange]

13 hours ago, jsbt said:

Maurice Benard is not the man running the show or running it into the ground. As a working actor in a threadbare industry who has to rely on his own self-promotion for survival, he capitalizes on the leverage they give him and their dogged belief that Sonny is the money. But it's been demonstrated numerous times that if he is paid and fed, he will do as he's told.

The Mo excuse soured for me ten years ago. Guza started marginalizing him around then and while there's still been way too much Sonny worship then and now, Maurice is not writing or producing this show. Getting rid of Sonny (which need never happen provided the character is put in a different place) is not even a fraction as much of a priority for me as firing the fuck out of Roger Howarth once and for all, along with Michelle Stafford and at least 30-40% of the cast, 60-90% of the writers and at this point probably the executive producer as well. MB is not running this show, nor has he had Geary-level power in years and years. Fight the real enemy and the Sonny problem can be contained. It's been done before.

All that said - and this has nothing to do with Maurice, I think it's all on the production's lazy ideas - Avery should be a) Morgan's child and b) dead, and no, those options are not mutually exclusive. That child has no reason to exist.

This is my favorite part of your post.

[Chairperson Meow]

3 hours ago, CreamedPeas said:

I'm getting excited about the Nurses Ball. My snack choice will be popcorn and M&M' s.  

Mine will be trying not to choke on my vomit and probably a lovely fish dish.