Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Darklazr]

RC has never met an incest, rape or sexual misconduct story that he did not want to write to make fans vomit, so he clearly did not know enough about Alexis' history to write her maybe being raped by Stavros and Sam was the outcome.  He could have tied that story in with Stavros kidnapping Lulu and the whole embryo baby thermos stuff.

2 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Nope, no to changing Sam's paternity.  Nothing is more irritating to me than constantly revising a character's paternity because a story doesn't work, a la Rex on OLTL.  This was an unresolved story thread for so long, leave it sewn up.

Turning Rexx Balsom and David Vickers into Buchanan's pissed me off, when the show did not need those two clowns tied to a core family.  Rexx already had faux sister Natalie and mother Roxie and don't get me started on Roxie not being that clown's biological mother.  

[Bringonthedrama]

4 hours ago, Perkie said:

Here's a question, why did the writers deliberately have the Davis coven leave before Sonny's little "look at me show"?  It was a very obvious, "Sam has had enough, let's get her home" and all four of them got up and left the church.  Was it just because Haley and Lexi have reached their maximums for the month?  Just seemed very weird to me, like there was a specific purpose that they didn't want them in the church during that scene.  

Haley may have reached her maximum, if she's still under 18 yrs old.  Maybe the Josslyn actress, also a minor, reached her maximum as well? I think the writers wanted "the kids" gone for Sonny's "I'm gonna kill myself" moment. They don't want him to appear to be a violent, selfish, traumatizing-the-youngest-of-the-family monster. The youngest people there in the final moment were Michael and Nelle (both mid-20s?).  I saw that Joss was gone; Michael and Jax were sitting next to Carly instead in the last moments of the episode. Also, Sonny and Kristina just had a scene where Kristina wanted to know why he sounded like he was saying goodbye, and he b.s.-ed his response so as to calm her down. She's been crying in front of and next to him. Once she's gone, he figures he can make a show of wanting to shoot himself without his reckless daughter lunging for the gun and getting shot. "Sam's had enough" was a good excuse to get the young, emotional daughter and niece out of there.

Also, the last time Kristina and Molly were in that church (for their Mom's wedding), a dude had a gun pointed at them. Having them scared about a gun again in a church so soon would be kinda repetitious.  

[dubbel zout]

Just now, Bringonthedrama said:

Having them scared about a gun again in a church so soon would be kinda repetitious.  

When has that stopped these writers? We just saw Sonny threatening to kill himself on the bridge. We have to watch him do it in a church now? Of course, the worst part is he never follows through, so it's just a ridiculous way for him to be the center of attention.

[Vella]

When Alexis first started to talk about her long lost child, she remembered having a son, not a daughter.  Couple that with Helena's longstanding hatred of Alexis and no DNA test being done, it would be so easy to bring about a story where it comes out that not only is Sam not a Davis, but that she found out about it years ago and kept quiet, first out of desire to hurt Alexis even further, and then later, because she forgave her and actually began to welcome her place in their family.  Years go by and then here comes a new male Cassadine, raised by Helena, not a lunatic like Stavros but not weak minded for useless blonde women like Stefan.  At first it's suggested that Alexis had twins, hence her memory of a son, but then Sam starts to get squirrely because she knows they aren't related.  It would only work with good writers not intent on the usual MEAN Alexis vs VICTIM Sam/Jason story that went on for EONS before someone mercifully ended that noise.  And if GH is intent on rebuilding the Cassadines, they need to do better than Sam, NATHAN and this emo, watered down, pathetic attempt to recreate Stefan, known as Valentin.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Vella

[WendyCR72]

Zander and Alexis had an awesome relationship before Nem ruined it. He should have been her son. Cameron, Sr. still could have had a role as Zander's adoptive, rather than biological, father.

[stlbf]

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

When has that stopped these writers? We just saw Sonny threatening to kill himself on the bridge. We have to watch him do it in a church now? Of course, the worst part is he never follows through, so it's just a ridiculous way for him to be the center of attention.

The age of people has never stopped Sonny before: KAREN WEXLER! Stone Cates. Are 2 teens that either employed and or abused. And yeah, Sonny is a fucking diva and a coward. We all know that he ain't shooting himself. And of course, poor Sonny didn't arrange for Julian's car to be bombed by that particular bomb! Sonny isn't a monster! *CopkillaEyeRoll*

3 hours ago, Vella said:

When Alexis first started to talk about her long lost child, she remembered having a son, not a daughter.  Couple that with Helena's longstanding hatred of Alexis and no DNA test being done, it would be so easy to bring about a story where it comes out that not only is Sam not a Davis, but that she found out about it years ago and kept quiet, first out of desire to hurt Alexis even further, and then later, because she forgave her and actually began to welcome her place in their family.  Years go by and then here comes a new male Cassadine, raised by Helena, not a lunatic like Stavros but not weak minded for useless blonde women like Stefan.  At first it's suggested that Alexis had twins, hence her memory of a son, but then Sam starts to get squirrely because she knows they aren't related.  It would only work with good writers not intent on the usual MEAN Alexis vs VICTIM Sam/Jason story that went on for EONS before someone mercifully ended that noise.  And if GH is intent on rebuilding the Cassadines, they need to do better than Sam, NATHAN and this emo, watered down, pathetic attempt to recreate Stefan, known as Valentin.

I would happy accept this, only if GH gets a real producer and head writer(s) that actually know and respect the damn history of the show. Ala, what Y&R is about to have happen. Fix this crap and I am willing to stretch my bs meter. Yes, Zander should've been her son. Keep Dr. Cameron as his father. Just say that college student Alexis had an affair with her professor(Dr. Cameron). She couldn't handle a baby with her crazy family. He decides to secretly adopt his son with his wife. Or just say that his wife forgave him and wanted a baby to raise. This would've been a great story to have with Alexis/Kristina/Parker. Alexis seeing her daughter committingthe same blunder that she herself made as a college student. 

A major problem with this shit hole of a show is the fact that Sonny, like Victor Newman, can't lose. And it just plain sucks. I have a hard buying that law enforcement is this incompetent for this long. And Sonny is a mobster AND town sainted good guy. Everybody forgives Sonny after a few weeks. Damn it, Michael is calling him Dad and his father after Sonny swore not to harm AJ. AND the asshole murdered AJ. And covered it up! The psycho finally went to prison for murder and mere weeks later he had a fucking pardon from the governor for serendipitously being around after escaping prison and throwing a bomb off a boat.

[sunnyface]

Quote

A major problem with this shit hole of a show is the fact that Sonny, like Victor Newman, can't lose. And it just plain sucks.

What is disconcerting to this viewer is that there are scenes where he is able to deliver his lines flawlessly but the majority of time he doesn't care - nor do the editors.  It's hard enough to tell my brain that it is alright to watch this violent thug that hijacked my soap opera.  It is quite another to train my brain to watch a professional (and those behind the scenes) who doesn't care about his craft.

[Perkie]

Quote

I think the writers wanted "the kids" gone for Sonny's "I'm gonna kill myself" moment. 

You're right.  I thought Joss was still there, but I went and rechecked and Bobbie walks Joss out right before the coven leaves.  

[Oracle42]

I loved Zander and Alexis's relationship and he's actually a character I always wanted to see in a better story, but the Davis Coven is one of the few things on this show that isn't shitty and I don't want to lose that. Plus, if the point was to use it hurt Alexis, she'd have told her because Sam did hate Alexis and she blamed her for everything . And at the time, all she cared about was Jason, if she'd been able to sever the link with Alexis, she'd have done it in a heartbeat

I liked CB. It would actually be doable to have his suicide by cop  faked for witness protection. Especially since everyone involved is dead and gone and SWSNBN is actually the one who killed the cop. There's an interesting story for Cam

Edited November 13, 2016 by Oracle42

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

There's an interesting story for Cam

Who? 

We should start a pool as to when Cam and Aidan will be SORASed.

[Vella]

4 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

the Davis Coven is one of the few things on this show that isn't shitty and I don't want to lose that. Plus, if the point was to use it hurt Alexis, she'd have told her because Sam did hate Alexis and she blamed her for everything . And at the time, all she cared about was Jason, if she'd been able to sever the link with Alexis, she'd have done it in a heartbeat

I get that but for years after the reveal, Sam became the figurehead of the Davis family and the others gravitated around her. Any remotely interesting story Alexis got almost immediately featured Sam, relegating Alexis to a supporting role. Sam was constantly taking Alexis' role in Kristina's life, Sam got a relationship with Nikolas when Kristina and Molly had nothing and still have nothing and even Alexis barely got time with her nephew. It's been a continuous problem. It's gotten a bit better since Guza was fired, but to me, I see a family revolving almost exclusively around 1 member and her relationship with Jason and how wonderful and perfect Sam is.  Krolly have zero issue calling each other out, they have zero problem yelling at Alexis or being yelled at by Alexis, but somehow, that never falls on Sam, because Sam is wonderful and they all squeal happily at Jason/Sam.  The same goes for the Cassadine family where Nikolas goes through the meat grinder for Sam/Jason and Helena suddenly cares about Sam/Jason and gives a laughable curse while ignoring Krolly.  Ridiculous, but that has always been the problem thread. The focus is on Sam. Always. I resent the hell out of it.

And Sam is a con artist. She was the woman who loathed Alexis, but had zero problem moving in, taking a job Alexis arranged and pretending to be a happy Davis family member all the while planning to seduce Ric and blow up the Rexis family.  And she did it successfully, so I can absolutely believe she'd hang on to an ace card like "I'm not really your long lost daughter" for awhile longer, knowing it would crush Alexis the longer the charade went on.

[Chairperson Meow]

16 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

When has that stopped these writers? We just saw Sonny threatening to kill himself on the bridge. We have to watch him do it in a church now? Of course, the worst part is he never follows through, so it's just a ridiculous way for him to be the center of attention.

How many times will Sonny threaten suicide before the writers realize it means nothing?  He just looks like that person who wears a white dress to a wedding to take attention away from the bride.   God, it's his son's funeral.   Morgan felt like he was second to everyone in life, which is why he drank and was so not great with his mental health, so maybe instead of worrying about brokers and bombs and mob stuff; perhaps Sonny, Carly, Jason, Sam, Julian, Alexis can all shut up and stop being shitty people who do stupid illegal shit and wonder why their lives suck.  Maybe Sonny can stop running around and shooting people and/or carrying a gun, threatening to kill people.   That might eliminate about 75% of his problems right there.  Like, dude.  Chill out.  And dammit, Jason, for someone not in the mob, you sure do a lot of mob type shit.  So, just shut up.  Shut the hell up.  Michael ,get away from them. 

[stlbf]

^^Amen!^^

Of Sonny wouldn't  be going around killing people, putting hits out on people and/or threatening multiple citizens,  then I would wager that the vast majority of his stress and family shit would disappear. No police investigations, no need for guards, no guns, no dangerous enemies and no need to have murder middlemen on a contact list.

Dump the mob. Murderers should not be damn town heroes! 

[TeeVee329]

15 hours ago, Vella said:

And if GH is intent on rebuilding the Cassadines, they need to do better than Sam, NATHAN and this emo, watered down, pathetic attempt to recreate Stefan, known as Valentin.

Oh, I don't think these writers even remember that Nathan is a fake Cassadine.

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, Vella said:

Krolly have zero issue calling each other out, they have zero problem yelling at Alexis or being yelled at by Alexis, but somehow, that never falls on Sam, because Sam is wonderful and they all squeal happily at Jason/Sam.  

Sam has her own life. She's not being supported by Alexis, so there's less reason for Alexis to yell at her.

2 hours ago, Chairperson Meow said:

How many times will Sonny threaten suicide before the writers realize it means nothing? 

It will always mean nothing, because we know Sonny will never do it. Plus, he's the male lead. Of course he's not going anywhere. It's why these things are so cheap. There are no stakes.

[Oracle42]

Moved to history thread

Edited November 14, 2016 by Oracle42

[dubbel zout]

23 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

But I don't remember her planning to seduce Ric?

They were sniffing around each other, and Sam would wander around the lake house in filmy nightgowns. They knew exactly what was going on and were united in their hate against Alexis. It was really selfish of Alexis to get lung cancer, you know.

[WendyCR72]

Okay, the Sam talk should go either in the Wishlist thread (for those posts that discuss what you want to happen) and past stuff belongs in the history thread as this seems to have overwhelmed the episode thread.

Thanks for your cooperation!

[teenj12]

On 11/12/2016 at 10:20 PM, Bringonthedrama said:

Haley may have reached her maximum, if she's still under 18 yrs old.  Maybe the Josslyn actress, also a minor, reached her maximum as well? I think the writers wanted "the kids" gone for Sonny's "I'm gonna kill myself" moment. They don't want him to appear to be a violent, selfish, traumatizing-the-youngest-of-the-family monster. The youngest people there in the final moment were Michael and Nelle (both mid-20s?).  I saw that Joss was gone; Michael and Jax were sitting next to Carly instead in the last moments of the episode. Also, Sonny and Kristina just had a scene where Kristina wanted to know why he sounded like he was saying goodbye, and he b.s.-ed his response so as to calm her down. She's been crying in front of and next to him. Once she's gone, he figures he can make a show of wanting to shoot himself without his reckless daughter lunging for the gun and getting shot. "Sam's had enough" was a good excuse to get the young, emotional daughter and niece out of there.

Also, the last time Kristina and Molly were in that church (for their Mom's wedding), a dude had a gun pointed at them. Having them scared about a gun again in a church so soon would be kinda repetitious.  

Haley turned 18 a few months ago, but I like your overall head canon...even though our pea-brain writers could never be that 'deep'. 

I support the reasoning that the show is cheap and broke, and wanted a few actors out of Monday's scenes. That's fine, but they could of made it less obvious. 

[LeftPhalange]

Kiki left the funeral in Friday's episode so I would assume not having Lead Younger Actress Hayley Erin there would free up a considerable amount of money. 

[dubbel zout]

If they had any sense, everyone who left would be relieved they didn't have to sit through more of Sonny's absurd histrionics.

[jsbt]

How the hell did Valentin (I hate that they now pronounce it "Valen-teen", I don't care if that's correct) get out of the charges from Cassadine Island? Including killing Nikolas/Nick Stabile? Let me guess: "Connections".

All Sonny's scenes needed was "I'm a messy bitch who loves drama!"

Edited November 14, 2016 by jsbt

[dubbel zout]

46 minutes ago, jsbt said:

How the hell did Valentin (I hate that they now pronounce it "Valen-teen", I don't care if that's correct) get out of the charges from Cassadine Island? Including killing Nikolas/Nick Stabile? Let me guess: "Connections".

Close! It was "technicalities."

[LeftPhalange]

So, basically, Helena.

[testardo]

On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 9:41 PM, Vella said:

Thanks HeatLifer.  See, this is the sort of stuff that drives me nuts.  Robin did not tell ANYONE. I can understand her not going to Michael or Carly, but she doesn't tell Jason or Sam? She doesn't tell her own mother? People who could watch Sonny more closely. Robin is a freaking DOCTOR, Sonny is her friend and she just leaves him to his own devices?  Jesus, these writers do EVERYTHING wrong.

maybe she didn't tell for two reasons. She knows he is too self serving to actually do it. Or she hoped he would. I certainly do !

[Kitty Redstone]

On 11/11/2016 at 2:49 PM, Vella said:

GH cannot handle serious topics.  Not even a little bit. And I can't help but wonder if any of the actors present, including MB himself, felt some outrage and discomfort with what is going to happen.

I doubt it, at least wrt MB.  He has a huge ego and his character is the center of the show.  He only complains when major stories don't involve Sonny or when other characters get more attention than Sonny.  When this show finally gets cancelled, I will put a lot of the blame on MB.

[TeeVee329]

Kevin and Laura were cute, but when he offered that she could come stay with him...isn't he living at the MetroCourt?  I mean, the excuse for that during the summer was that his house was being worked on for a few months so I guess that could be finished, but still, that caught my attention.  Also, slow your roll, Kev.

Scotty selling out longtime friend/bed buddy/ex-wife/co-parent Lucy for Ava's sake grosses me out.

I don't care about a) Nina, b) Charlotte, and thus c) Nina and Charlotte hanging out together.

Bobbie's growing disdain of Nelle mirrors my own and is thus giving me life.

Shut up, Maurice Benard's Emmy reel.

[Linny]

You've got to admire Sonny's commitment to making everything about him. It's Morgan's funeral, yet he makes time to go from person to person like a Jehovah's Witness, asking everyone if they know the story of him and his pain. He's the worst. 

Nelle showed a flicker of personality when she opened Sonny's letter to Carly, but I'm sure wet blanket Michael will stamp that right out. 

Call me crazy, but I enjoy Scotty and Ava. Their scheming antics bring some much needed levity to this show. 

[dubbel zout]

19 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

I don't care about a) Nina, b) Charlotte, and thus c) Nina and Charlotte hanging out together.

Given Nina's grotesque baby rabies, it's always alarming to see her with children.

[TeeVee329]

Speaking of, I saw this noted on Twitter - Nathan and Maxie supposedly didn't come to the funeral to support their besties because they were watching Charlotte.  But then they dumped Charlotte off on Nina so they could do some wedding planning?  Bad writing.

[ulkis]

Sonny called Dante "my beautiful son" in public? I guess if shooting someone in the chest doesn't work trying to embarass someone to death is the next step.

[LeftPhalange]

55 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Bobbie's growing disdain of Nelle mirrors my own and is thus giving me life.

 

I love the way Bobbie looks at Nelly. It's probably my favorite thing about the show at the moment. 

[Cheyanne11]

1 hour ago, TeeVee329 said:

 

Shut up, Maurice Benard's Emmy reel.

Every Sonny scene in this storyline reminds me of this:

[Sake614]

okay so I missed the last half hour because the press felt it was vitally important to cover Obama joking with them and discussing his last European trip as president. May I presume from the lack of comments here that I didn't miss anything? I saw mention of Nelle opening Sonny's letter to Carly. Did we find out what it said?

[lovelynn]

I find myself really enjoying Nina with Valentin. I have never enjoyed her character so it's a strange feeling. Maybe it's just that her scenes were fun compared to all the rest of the doom and gloom.

[peachmangosteen]

Did they hire new makeup/hair people? Everyone looked SO much better than they have been looking lately.

I somewhat enjoyed a lot of this episode actually. I skipped all the Sonny related scenes though.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

Jason is so intent on saving Sonny's bacon by keeping him from giving the PCPD a statement or confession. He's also called Diane to represent Sonny. At the same time, antsy Ava is trying to get the switched pills back from Lucy's possession, using Scotty to appeal to Lucy's libido.  Too bad but we are probably going to lose luscious Ava to save Sonny.

The undecorated coffin was utterly tasteless. Morgan had a rich mom and a rich dad, and ties to the rich Quartermaines. He deserved flowers and greenery, and any one of them could have afforded it. Nelle said something about shifting all the flowers to or from the reception, which was canceled. The Show could have found some artificial flowers, which are cheap.

[Lobsel Vith]

26 minutes ago, P3pp3rb1rd said:

Jason is so intent on saving Sonny's bacon by keeping him from giving the PCPD a statement or confession. He's also called Diane to represent Sonny. At the same time, antsy Ava is trying to get the switched pills back from Lucy's possession, using Scotty to appeal to Lucy's libido.  Too bad but we are probably going to lose luscious Ava to save Sonny.

It's too bad the show doesn't explore Jason dealing with the death of his brother. Or perhaps show a schism between Jason and the Quartermaines because he's helping Sonny of all people.

27 minutes ago, P3pp3rb1rd said:

The undecorated coffin was utterly tasteless. Morgan had a rich mom and a rich dad, and ties to the rich Quartermaines. He deserved flowers and greenery, and any one of them could have afforded it. Nelle said something about shifting all the flowers to or from the reception, which was canceled. The Show could have found some artificial flowers, which are cheap.

I'm sure Sonny has enough blood money to cover the expense of the coffin without involving the family of a man he murdered in cold blooded and got away with after spending five minutes in jail. Maybe Sonny didn't want the coffin to distract anyone at the funeral from him?

[Perkie]

Why was Nina babysitting Charlotte?  Griffin and Anna decide to go to the funeral, figure they need a babysitter and think of NIna??  Do either of them know Nina??  Then Valentin shows up, how did he know that Nina was babysitting?  

[dubbel zout]

Charlotte has an implanted GPS chip.

[dubbel zout]

Sonny really bogarted Morgan's funeral. What a drama queen. When he pulled out his gun, I wish everyone had rolled their eyes and had "Not this again" faces. It's what he deserves. I FFed through his woe-is-me confession. Spare me.

I liked Valentin's reaction to Laura telling him he knew where to put the olive branch: "Fair enough." Hee.

6 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Also, slow your roll, Kev.

I know. He's getting a little creepily aggressive.

Why did Carly cancel the reception? Just because Sonny was arrested? People still need to eat.

I hope Scott and Lucy double-cross Ava. Ava's getup in the church was hilarious.

Dante's indignation at not being able to interrogate his own father was a bit much.

What's this new place everyone is meeting? Is it the inside of the coffee kiosk?

[ciarra]

Quote

Shut up, Maurice Benard's Emmy reel.

Yeah, what was up with the gun if Sonny didn't intend to use it?  Drama queen. 

[LeftPhalange]

I hope Scott is working with Lucy to screw Ava over. Otherwise he's a fuckbag.

I was going to give Ava props for having the decency to stay away from the funeral. I should've known better.

If Bobbie wants to punch Nelly in the throat that would be more than acceptable.

If stupid Julian or Valentin wanted to make themselves useful they would kill Sonny.

I assume Griffin doesn't know Nina has baby rabies and a history of kidnapping, but still, why is he leaving that kid alone with someone he doesn't know?

[IWantCandy71]

On 11/11/2016 at 5:49 PM, dubbel zout said:

There was an interview with Karen Harris (whom we suspected might have been Awesome Writer) where she basically said this. There's no writers room anymore—the writers live all over—so their ability to discuss stories with one another is limited. Their deadlines have gotten shorter, which makes it harder to correct inconsistencies and continuity.

 

You know, if this were even just twenty years ago, I could see that excuse. But there are things like video conferencing/Skype, etc. Forget that, what about simple teleconferencing? There is no excuse these days for the writers not communicating effectively.  

I read good things about the Tracy and Finn stuff, and I love the chemistry with Jane and Michael. I am sticking to not watching, though. I think watching Tracy do nothing but prop Finn and Hayden would just irritate me.

[LeftPhalange]

Quote

There was an interview with Karen Harris (whom we suspected might have been Awesome Writer) where she basically said this. There's no writers room anymore—the writers live all over—so their ability to discuss stories with one another is limited. Their deadlines have gotten shorter, which makes it harder to correct inconsistencies and continuity.

Why are writers being hired to write for this show when they don't even live in the same city where it's filmed? Sure, technology makes it possible, but it's never going to be the same as sitting around in a room bouncing ideas off each other. 

[P3pp3rb1rd]

1 hour ago, IWantCandy71 said:

You know, if this were even just twenty years ago, I could see that excuse. But there are things like video conferencing/Skype, etc. Forget that, what about simple teleconferencing? There is no excuse these days for the writers not communicating effectively.  

Absolutely! At work I've been in plenty of teleconferences where (despite time differences because the company didn't care if we got any sleep) I was in Texas talking to people in Europe, India, and China simultaneously. Mercifully we weren't able to see each other, because some of us were definitely in pajamas. But even worldwide conversations are easy.

[Lillybee]

If Sonny didn't want to make it all about Sonny, he could have turned himself to Dante after the funeral.

[LeftPhalange]

19 minutes ago, Lillybee said:

If Sonny didn't want to make it all about Sonny, he could have turned himself to Dante after the funeral.

Or he could've quietly left town, kidnapped Ava, Julian, and Kiki, and then committed a murder-murder-murder-suicide

[TeeVee329]

14 hours ago, Perkie said:

Why was Nina babysitting Charlotte?  Griffin and Anna decide to go to the funeral, figure they need a babysitter and think of NIna??  Do either of them know Nina??  Then Valentin shows up, how did he know that Nina was babysitting?  

Nathan and Maxie were the ones babysitting Charlotte (this was the "reason" why they weren't supporting their besties at the funeral) and then apparently dumped her onto Nina so they could do wedding plans (bad, plot point-y writing).

11 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I hope Scott and Lucy double-cross Ava. Ava's getup in the church was hilarious.

Ditto on both counts.

Edited November 15, 2016 by TeeVee329

[dubbel zout]

6 hours ago, Lillybee said:

If Sonny didn't want to make it all about Sonny

You're new to the show, aren't you? ;-)