O.J. Simpson: The Many Docs

[jenh526]

They aired a series of these on A&E last night. I remember the day I watched the verdict on tv and was stunned like everyone else at the outcome. I guess I learned a few new things from the documentaries. Robert Kardashian knew, and his face when the verdict was read showed he was just as floored as everyone else. Petrocelli was a hero - he did all the groundwork he was supposed to do and destroyed OJ with his meticulous attention to the details. If only he'd been the prosecutor in the criminal trial. I believe that OJ is a complete sociopath - it was really fascinating to watch his denial of anything that didn't match his own version of reality, down to denying the shoes he was wearing in pictures belonged to him. Also learned that he's scheduled for release in Oct. 2017. 

Edited October 4, 2015 by jenh526

[psychoticstate]

These documentaries brought 1994 and 1995 back to me like it was yesterday.   Fred and Kim Goldman brought me to tears.  Not to diminish the Brown family's pain but what happened to Ron is so egregious to me.  He had no connection to Simpson, nothing to do with anything.  Simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and lost his life for attempting to help/save Nicole and maybe even because he stood up to the "great" O.J.  

 

I think even if Daniel Petrocelli had been the prosecutor during the criminal trial, the verdict would have been the same unless there had been a different judge and different jury.  Judge Ito never should have allowed the trial to become the Fuhrman trial and he never should have deferred to the defense.  Many of the jurors admitted after the trial they had their bags packed before deliberations even started and because they didn't really understand the DNA and blood evidence, they threw it out of their deliberations.  Both of which were mind blowing to me.  The blood and DNA evidence should have put the final nail in Simpson's coffin, not been ignored.

 

I'm glad these deposition tapes were shown.  The public, especially those that still believe in Simpson's innocence and/or think he was set up by the LAPD, needed to see the real Simpson - - the narcissistic, violent and arrogant asshole.

[WendyCR72]

I'm glad these deposition tapes were shown. The public, especially those that still believe in Simpson's innocence and/or think he was set up by the LAPD, needed to see the real Simpson - - the narcissistic, violent and arrogant asshole.

I remember this quite well, too. The murder itself took place the summer before my senior year of college, and I recall constant TV interruptions over the year about the case. If there is any sort of consolation to be had, at least Simpson did end up in prison for armed robbery and is still there, at least for a couple more years. Sure, the sentence isn't long enough (to me), but I recall after Simpson was arrested for that, the press went to Fred Goldman, and I remember him saying he hoped OJ's prison view was that of a golf course. And I applaud the man for getting the rights to Simpson's "If I Did It" (Narcissistic to the bone!) as part of the civil trial ruling (since Goldman was to receive money from that, so Simpson could no longer receive any profits from it).

Does it make up for the clusterfuck the murder trial turned out to be? No. (And everyone was a mess. I mean, when you have Jay Leno with the freaking "Dancing Itos" on his show night after night, you know that trial was an out-of-control circus. IMO, there should have been a mistrial.) But at least karma bit Simpson on his ass a bit and he did still end up locked up for something. A half victory is better than none, I guess.

[Hanahope]

Many of the jurors admitted after the trial they had their bags packed before deliberations even started and because they didn't really understand the DNA and blood evidence, they threw it out of their deliberations.

 

Defense attorneys usually desire the less-intelligent jurors, while the prosecution usually tries for the smartest.  Obviously the defense attorneys did a much better job at picking the jurors than the prosecution. 

[LADreamr]

To be clear on that 2017 date, that's just his first shot at parole. He could well stay in jail until the end of the sentence, in 2041, at which time he'd be about 94. Ironic, since that's the year this all started.

Edited October 5, 2015 by LADreamr

[WendyCR72]

To be clear on that 2017 date, that's just his first shot at parole. He could well stay in jail until the end of the sentence, in 2041, at which time he'd be about 94. Ironic, since that's the year this all started.

 

If it was Joe Q. Public, he'd probably serve the full term or close, but even tarnished, OJ is a celebrity, etc. So it could go either way, IMO. But thanks for the info. And that is ironic vis a vis the age he would be if he served the full sentence versus the year when his criminality came to light.

[TVFan17]

O.J.'s sheer arrogance was evident, as he apparently thought that since he was cleared of a grisly double murder he would be able to easily get away with a 'lesser' crime (the fiasco in Vegas).  I'm so glad he didn't.   When he finally gets out of prison, if he is still mobile and still has his connections, I wouldn't be shocked if he tried to pull some shenanigans again.  That's how arrogant he is.   Or he might have someone else do it for him.  That's what I think many of these 'alleged' (cough cough) killers do -- they try to get someone else to do the dirty work for them, and if they get away with something one time they assume they will get away with again.   Sometimes they do; sometimes they don't.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Sure, the sentence isn't long enough (to me), but I recall after Simpson was arrested for that, the press went to Ron Goldman, and I remember him saying he hoped OJ's prison view was that of a golf course. 

 

I think you mean Fred Goldman, since Ron was the one who was murdered?  I remember this case; the way it was handled by the "media" is what turned me off from ever trying to pursue a career in the field of broadcast Journalism--a degree I got just the year before.  Just the tabloidy way it was all handled. I'm sure part of it also was that I minored in Criminal Justice, hence my conflict. But, at the end, I didn't have the stomach for it.

[WendyCR72]

I think you mean Fred Goldman, since Ron was the one who was murdered?  I remember this case; the way it was handled by the "media" is what turned me off from ever trying to pursue a career in the field of broadcast Journalism--a degree I got just the year before.  Just the tabloidy way it was all handled. I'm sure part of it also was that I minored in Criminal Justice, hence my conflict. But, at the end, I didn't have the stomach for it.

How did I miss such an obvious typo? Indeed, I meant Fred Goldman. Going to edit now.

[GreatKazu]

I said it then, and I say it now. If I had been on that criminal jury, I would have been the hold out. Those "ugly ass shoes" that were the same size as Simpson's feet, the photos of him wearing those shoes, the fact Simpson didn't have those shoes in his possession and denies owning such a pair, and the probability that another male wearing those style of shoes was zero, was one major factor to me that Simpson was the killer. That doesn't include the DNA and the impossibility that police officers, crime scene technicians, a handful of detectives, and all the people involved in gathering the physical evidence, were in on some plot or conspiracy to nail Simpson as the killer.

 

Can someone clear up for me what was mentioned on the black screen at the end of one of the documentaries? It read "The judge at Simpson's sentencing told him he had the right to gather his memorabilia and keep it out of the hands of the Goldmans." I am sure I don't have the exact words. I don't recall the judge ever saying such a thing to Simpson. Does anyone else recall the judge saying such a thing? I tried Googling it and haven't come up with anything. I don't even know what that means. Was the judge saying Simpson had a right to get his memorabilia, he just didn't have the right to commit the crimes that he did to get them? Even if that is what the judge meant, why mention the Goldmans, as if they were leeches trying to keep Simpson's personal property?  What a horrible thing for a judge to say. The Goldmans won a civil suit. They have not been able to collect from Simpson a major part of what he owns or earns for various reasons. They have a right to obtain $$ from what is out there. Simpson's memorabilia is out there and available for them to pursue.

Edited October 5, 2015 by GreatKazu

[FanOfTheFans]

I said it then, and I say it now. If I had been on that criminal jury, I would have been the hold out. Those "ugly ass shoes" that were the same size as Simpson's feet, the photos of him wearing those shoes, the fact Simpson didn't have those shoes in his possession and denies owning such a pair, and the probability that another male wearing those style of shoes was zero, was one major factor to me that Simpson was the killer. That doesn't include the DNA and the impossibility that police officers, crime scene technicians, a handful of detectives, and all the people involved in gathering the physical evidence, were in on some plot or conspiracy to nail Simpson as the killer.

 

Can someone clear up for me what was mentioned on the black screen at the end of one of the documentaries? It read "The judge at Simpson's sentencing told him he had the gather his memorabilia and keep it out of the hands of the Goldmans." I am sure I don't have the exact words. I don't recall the judge ever saying such a thing to Simpson. Does anyone else recall the judge saying such a thing? I tried Googling it and haven't come up with anything. I don't even know what that means. Was the judge saying Simpson had a right to get his memorabilia. He just didn't have the right to commit the crimes that he did to get them?  No matter, what a horrible thing for a judge to say. The Goldmans won a civil suit. They have not been able to collect from Simpson a major part of what he owns or earns for various reasons. They have a right to obtain $$ from what is out there. Simpson's memorabilia is out there and available for them to pursue.

I remember that quote but not verbatim. Anyway I took it as he was saying to OJ that basically he was his own worst enemy. He was so bent on keeping money out of Goldman's hands that he stole the memorabilia rather than see the profit of said items going to Goldman's.

OJ really seems to get off on sticking it to the Goldman's. Revenge seems to steer his actions. That and pure arrogance. I believe as someone earlier stated that he is a sociopath.

[Maharincess]

It's sickening that he murdered their son and then continued to assault the family by taunting them and doing everything he could to stop them from getting a penny.

I don't say this about too many people, I take the word seriously... I fucking LOATHE the killer.

He literally makes me sick to my stomach when I see him or read about the stuff he's done.

Fred Goldman has a lot of self control to be able to sit in the same room as the killer and not attack him. I'm not sure I could have done the same.

Great Kazu, my internet twin, I'd have been holding out in the jury right along with you. I will never understand what they were thinking with that verdict. There was pretty much an arrow made out of blood pointing to him as being the killer. Ridiculous.

In conversations I've had with people and things I've read in the years since the trial I noticed that some people think the verdict had a lot to do with the Rodney King case and the resulting riots. Some think that the jury was either getting revenge for Rodney King or they feared a guilty verdict for the killer would bring on more riots.

I've been spending way too much time reading about this shit since I saw the deposition tapes on TV.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Maharincess

[jenh526]

Can someone clear up for me what was mentioned on the black screen at the end of one of the documentaries? It read "The judge at Simpson's sentencing told him he had the right to gather his memorabilia and keep it out of the hands of the Goldmans." 

 

"You didn't want all those items to fall into the hands of the Goldmans," Judge Glass said of the robbery. http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20252103,00.html

 

It's clear he has no intentions of paying for the killings in any way, shape or form, even if he has to resort to armed robbery to prevent it. He is loathesome.

[Picture It. Sicily]

Something that really resonated with me was that video of Ron and Fred rocking out to 'Old Time Rock 'n Roll'. Seeing Fred having so much fun made me tear up. It felt like I was seeing the last truly carefree moment the man ever had.

[junemeatcleaver]

 

In conversations I've had with people and things I've read in the years since the trial I noticed that some people think the verdict had a lot to do with the Rodney King case and the resulting riots. Some think that the jury was either getting revenge for Rodney King or they feared a guilty verdict for the killer would bring on more riots.

 

That and the prosecution put on a terrible case.  Why did they decide to have the trial in LA?  Why did they put a racist cop, who fictionally described shit that was actually going on in minority communities, on the stand?  Why did they have OJ try on that shrunken up glove over his latexed gloved arthritic hand?  The prosecution didn't understand the jury and underestimated the political and racial climate of the area at the time.  The prosecution deserves more credit for the acquital than the jury IMO.

[TVFan17]

I had jury duty a couple of weeks ago, and thankfully we were all let go after only a few hours, without ever even setting foot in a courtroom.  Earlier, as we sat there listening to the snoozefest orientation, I remember thinking to myself, "With my luck I am going to get stuck on some crazy 9-month O.J. trial and never be able to escape."  

 

The clerk who was reading her orientation speech to us made sure to let us know that both Jennifer Lopez and Brad Pitt had reported for jury duty in that same courthouse.   I looked up at the wall of the assembly room, which featured framed photos of celebrities who had served on juries (presumably at that same courthouse, but I'm not sure).... Jamie Lee Curtis... Camryn Maheim... Weird Al Yankovic... Edward James Olmos... I think that Ed Asner was up there too... and Judge Lance Ito!!!!  I chuckled when I saw Judge Ito's photo as one of the ones who had been on a jury, since he is forever known as doing a terrible job in the courtroom of probably the most famous and infamous criminal trial ever.  I don't know that I could be on a jury with Judge Ito and not ask him endless questions about the O.J. trial and how ridiculous the outcome was.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Sherry67

[Hanahope]

In conversations I've had with people and things I've read in the years since the trial I noticed that some people think the verdict had a lot to do with the Rodney King case and the resulting riots. Some think that the jury was either getting revenge for Rodney King or they feared a guilty verdict for the killer would bring on more riots.

 

 

That and the prosecution put on a terrible case.  Why did they decide to have the trial in LA?  Why did they put a racist cop, who fictionally described shit that was actually going on in minority communities, on the stand?  Why did they have OJ try on that shrunken up glove over his latexed gloved arthritic hand?  The prosecution didn't understand the jury and underestimated the political and racial climate of the area at the time.  The prosecution deserves more credit for the acquital than the jury IMO.

 

 

There was definitely a lot of political machinations going on at the time, on both sides.  Politics definitely kept the trial in LA instead of having it moved to Santa Monica, like the civil trial was.  The jury was definitely recovering from the Rodney King riots and the perception that the police were out to 'get blacks' and the police definitely had their own racial problems.

 

The prosecution was definitely unprepared for most of the trial (one of the few times that a 'quick and speedy trial' really worked against them, considering the huge amount of evidence), and clearly didn't have the resources that the defense had (money buys a lot of lawyer-associates - and it certainly helped the Goldmans in their civil case).

[imjagain]

"You didn't want all those items to fall into the hands of the Goldmans," Judge Glass said of the robbery. http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20252103,00.html

It's clear he has no intentions of paying for the killings in any way, shape or form, even if he has to resort to armed robbery to prevent it. He is loathesome.

I love that OJ ended up in prison because he was trying to keep his memorabilia out of the Goldman hands. Fred did get OJ in the end. If not for the civil trial, OJ would not be in prison. Fred and Kim have always made me cry the the pain they felt was so on the surface whenever they spoke.

I agree Robert Kardashian was shocked that OJ was not convicted. I remember watching the verdict and saw his face and said he knows OJ did it.

As someone else said watching this took me back to the mid 90's. What a crazy trial.

Edited October 6, 2015 by imjagain

[psychoticstate]

That and the prosecution put on a terrible case.  Why did they decide to have the trial in LA?  Why did they put a racist cop, who fictionally described shit that was actually going on in minority communities, on the stand?  Why did they have OJ try on that shrunken up glove over his latexed gloved arthritic hand?  The prosecution didn't understand the jury and underestimated the political and racial climate of the area at the time.  The prosecution deserves more credit for the acquital than the jury IMO.

 

The trial should have been held in Santa Monica - - that was more a jury of the killer's peers than those that were seated in LA.  However, I believe the Santa Monica courthouse had been damaged during the Northridge earthquake and that fed into the decision to move the trial. 

 

As far as the racist cop, the prosecutors put Fuhrman on the stand because he found the bloody glove at Rockingham.  He was one of the responding detectives.  I think Marcia Clark made a huge mistake in running away from Fuhrman after those tapes were admitted (which NEVER should have happened.)  She should have stressed to the jury that those tapes were made years before the murders and had nothing to do with them.  She should have demonstrated that it would have been impractical and improbable that Fuhrman got Lange and Vannatter to co-conspire with him to frame Simpson.  And that they managed to plant evidence without anyone else noticing. 

 

Regardless of how those tapes came to be made and why, I don't think Fuhrman did anything wrong in this investigation.  Heck, even Simpson's agent (who was pro-Simpson, wanted him acquitted but believed him guilty from the get) said that Fuhrman was a good and dedicated cop who did nothing wrong in this investigation. 

 

Clark and Darden never should have allowed Simpson to control the glove demonstration.  Common sense would tell anyone that Simpson would do anything to make sure those gloves didn't appear to fit.  They also should have stressed that he wore latex gloves underneath leather gloves that had shrunken due to blood drying on them.

 

I think the prosecution understood the racial tension but they seriously could not have asked for a better case, evidence wise other than having a video of Simpson committing the crimes.  They had the blood evidence, they had the shoes, they had the cut on Simpson, they had Simpson's history, they had the woman who saw Simpson speeding away from the Bundy neighborhood (Clark was foolish to not put this woman on the stand because she sold her story to the Enquirer - - who cares! Doesn't make it any less of the truth.)  I really think the prosecution thought they had an open and shut case.

 

I am the triplet to Great Kazu and maharincess because I would have hung that jury up like nobody's business.  All I would have to hear is the blood trail.  Defendant's blood at the crime scene?  Ron Goldman's blood in defendant's car?  Done. 

[CaughtOnTape]

Hearing that Ron Goldman's blood was ANYWHERE near Simpson or anything he owned, drove or lived in should've sealed it for the jury.  I don't care how badly the prosecution did.  Ignoring that small (But really effing huge) piece of information was a travesty and as far as I'm concerned is the reason any person sitting on that jury should be ashamed of themselves for what they did.  

 

I would have hung the hell out of that jury.

Edited October 6, 2015 by CaughtOnTape

[psychoticstate]

Not only that but some of the blood found in the Bronco was a MIXTURE of Ron's and Nicole's blood.  That would indicate (to any rational person at least) the blood was shed at the same time. 

[jenh526]

Regardless of how those tapes came to be made and why, I don't think Fuhrman did anything wrong in this investigation.  Heck, even Simpson's agent (who was pro-Simpson, wanted him acquitted but believed him guilty from the get) said that Fuhrman was a good and dedicated cop who did nothing wrong in this investigation. 

 

Say what?! How do you rationalize believing someone brutally slaughtered two people but shouldn't be punished for it?

[psychoticstate]

This man said he wasn't only Simpson's sports agent but also his friend for 20 years.  When he heard about the murders, his first thought was that OJ had done it (or finally done it.)  He also said that he fully expected a guilty verdict, as did much everyone else.  He said there was only person in the Simpson circle of friends - - cannot recall who right now - - who believed he would walk. 

 

This agent said he was basically caught up in the Simpson lifestyle, like everyone else in their circle.  He said that once he terminated his friendship with Simpson, he began to see things in a different light.  He had never cared much for Nicole (nor she him) when she was with OJ but he had a great deal of sympathy for her after seeing the evidence photos and hearing the 911 recordings.  He also said that he and their circle of friends, nearly all of whom immediately said OJ had done it after hearing of Nicole's death, were partly responsible for what happened.  His theory was that if they believed OJ capable of doing such a thing, they should have done what they could to have stopped it. 

 

Additionally, the person he felt the most guilt over was Fred Goldman - - he helped to clear the sports memorabilia and expense items out of Rockingham before the Goldmans could get to it after the civil trial.  He said it was also his idea for Simpson to stop taking his arthritis meds so his hands would swell up and the gloves would not fit. 

 

I would feel like the biggest scum too if I had done what this guy did.  But at least he admitted it and admitting he was dead wrong.

[GreatKazu]

From my recollection, the blood evidence was continuously referred to by the defense as "contaminated" and "cross contaminated" due to improper handling of the blood. I think the jurors were also confused about the mixture of blood from Nicole, Ron, and O.J. as well as believing the whole conspiracy about the LAPD planting evidence, particularly Furhman. Which is why they couldn't see the obvious about the blood mixture such as what was found in the Bronco.  The jurors were led to believe the police had mixed the blood in order to put Simpson at the scene of the crime. They were also told  Simpson's blood droplets, which was found in and around the crime scene, including his home and property, were put there by the police. 

 

Here is a list of the DNA evidence at the scene:

http://www.people.co...0252103,00.html

Thanks!

Edited October 8, 2015 by GreatKazu

[wallofsound]

I loved watching this and agree it all came back in an instant. What a fascinating mess it all was.

OJ always seemed so obviously guilty in my mind, but I was reminded of the whole Detective Vanatter carrying a vial of OJs blood around in his pocket thing while watching this. He took a sample of OJs blood at the station and then put it in his pocket for several hours before processing it properly. During those several hours he went to the Rockingham estate. Now, I don't think any blood or evidence was planted by anyone, but that is some pretty stupid police work. I can see how suspicions were raised because of this idiot. The police were inept, the prosecution were amateurs and the defense was dirty - extremely talented but dirty

[BuggieGirl]

I said it then, and I say it now. If I had been on that criminal jury, I would have been the hold out. Those "ugly ass shoes" that were the same size as Simpson's feet, the photos of him wearing those shoes, the fact Simpson didn't have those shoes in his possession and denies owning such a pair, and the probability that another male wearing those style of shoes was zero, was one major factor to me that Simpson was the killer. 

Just an FYI, the photos of the shoes didn't come out until the civil trial. Wasn't an issue in the criminal trial.

[Calamity Jane]

There was definitely a lot of political machinations going on at the time, on both sides.  Politics definitely kept the trial in LA instead of having it moved to Santa Monica, like the civil trial was.  The jury was definitely recovering from the Rodney King riots and the perception that the police were out to 'get blacks' and the police definitely had their own racial problems.

 

The prosecution was definitely unprepared for most of the trial (one of the few times that a 'quick and speedy trial' really worked against them, considering the huge amount of evidence), and clearly didn't have the resources that the defense had (money buys a lot of lawyer-associates - and it certainly helped the Goldmans in their civil case).

Also, the prosecutor who was to try the case had a heart attack or something, and Clark and Darden had to step in.  I've often wondered how things would have gone with the older and more-experienced guy.  I don't think he would have let Ito get away with treating him the way Ito treated Clark in particular. 

 

The court on the west side is where a trial normally would have been held for a crime committed in Brentwood, but the DA thought the venue was too small.  Big, big mistake moving it downtown. 

Edited October 12, 2015 by Calamity Jane

[Hanahope]

but I was reminded of the whole Detective Vanatter carrying a vial of OJs blood around in his pocket thing while watching this. He took a sample of OJs blood at the station and then put it in his pocket for several hours before processing it properly. During those several hours he went to the Rockingham estate. Now, I don't think any blood or evidence was planted by anyone, but that is some pretty stupid police work.

 

Yes, its pretty amazing how sloppy the police were.  You'd think with such a high profile murder and suspect, they would have been so so careful to do everything correctly and by the book, but instead they were very careless.  I'm sure with most crimes, its fine, the police tell the suspect all this evidence they have and the suspect gives a confession and/or a guilty plea.  Most either don't have lawyers, or simply a public defender, who doesn't have the time or the resources to put on a real defense.  So the cops can get away with sloppy work 99% of the time because no one ever questions it.  I don't remember, but probably at first the cops didn't consider OJ a suspect and took his blood solely for "rule-out" purposes and thus didn't treat it carefully because they didn't think it would be used as prosecution evidence.  By the time evidence started mounting against OJ, it was too late to fix the errors.  This is why it needed to be handled correctly from the beginning.

[Bastet]

Robert Kardashian knew, and his face when the verdict was read showed he was just as floored as everyone else.

 

That's the most memorable image from the reading of the verdict for me; he's stunned, and he looks sickened. 

 

I've watched bits and pieces of these documentaries, but it just stirs up so much emotion.  I cried when the verdict was announced for all that it confirmed about our criminal justice system and our society.  I've done both domestic violence policy work and direct representation of DV victims.  To this day, we still hear women threatened with references to OJ, meaning "I'll kill you, and I'll get away with it."

 

The trial was a clusterfuck, and there's plenty of blame to go around for the unconscionable verdict.  The juror who listened to all that testimony explaining DNA and came away saying, "So, it was his blood type.  Who cares?  Lots of people have the same blood type."  The juror who thought the testimony about domestic violence was irrelevant, because what did him hitting her have to do with whether he killed her.  And, of course, the jurors in general who listened to a mountain of evidence and said, "Nope, reasonable doubt."  The police who did sloppy work.  The prosecutors who made poor strategy decisions.  The judge who got caught up in his celebrity and forgot about his job.

 

And the defense team.  Who took a community's very real and very valid frustration with the long history of bullshit LAPD and the DA's office got up to when dealing with black suspects and used that to secure an acquittal in a case where none of that happened.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Bastet

[Maharincess]

This man said he wasn't only Simpson's sports agent but also his friend for 20 years. When he heard about the murders, his first thought was that OJ had done it (or finally done it.) He also said that he fully expected a guilty verdict, as did much everyone else. He said there was only person in the Simpson circle of friends - - cannot recall who right now - - who believed he would walk.

This agent said he was basically caught up in the Simpson lifestyle, like everyone else in their circle. He said that once he terminated his friendship with Simpson, he began to see things in a different light. He had never cared much for Nicole (nor she him) when she was with OJ but he had a great deal of sympathy for her after seeing the evidence photos and hearing the 911 recordings. He also said that he and their circle of friends, nearly all of whom immediately said OJ had done it after hearing of Nicole's death, were partly responsible for what happened. His theory was that if they believed OJ capable of doing such a thing, they should have done what they could to have stopped it.

Additionally, the person he felt the most guilt over was Fred Goldman - - he helped to clear the sports memorabilia and expense items out of Rockingham before the Goldmans could get to it after the civil trial. He said it was also his idea for Simpson to stop taking his arthritis meds so his hands would swell up and the gloves would not fit.

I would feel like the biggest scum too if I had done what this guy did. But at least he admitted it and admitting he was dead wrong.

I read his book, it made me sick. First for all that he did to help the killer get off knowing all along he was guilty as hell. Also for his treatment of Nicole when she was alive. He cared more about living the OJ "lifestyle" than he did for an abused human being. Him feeling bad now is too little, too late asshole.

Then for his hiding of the property so the Goldmans couldn't get it

Then after all of that, he tried to make money off the murders by writing a book about it. It means nothing that he admitted it and admitted he was wrong.

If he had donated all proceeds to a battered women's charity, then I might believe that he really feels remorse.

Sick bastard.

I had never thought of the killer being in prison today is a direct result of the civil trial. I never thought of it in those terms before. That made me smile! If the Goldmans had given up and not pressed for the civil trial and had not stayed on his ass all of these years, the killer would be on the golf course right now.

I hope the killer ponders that while he rots in prison.

Psychoticstate, come and join me and my twin Great Kazu on the hung jury couch. We have plenty of room.

I agree with everybody about this bringing it all back to my mind. I remember where I was when I watched the trial and the events surrounding it. Hearing names like Lange and VanAtter just brings it all back.

And I also agree that the shocked look on Kardashian's face as the verdict was read is one of the trials iconic images for me. Again though, he sickens me too and not just for the disgusting just for the creatures he unleashed into the world. This guy obviously knew he was guilty but still helped him go free.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Maharincess

[GHScorpiosRule]

And I also agree that the shocked look on Kardashian's face as the verdict was read is one of the trials iconic images for me. Again though, he sickens me too and the disgusting just for the creatures he unleashed into the world. This guy obviously knew he was guilty but still helped him go free.

 

 

I've already posted in the 20/20 thread my thoughts about Simpson.  And my disgust with the idiotic jury. As for Kardashian defending Simpson (along with the team of his other lawyers), well, that's his or her job--to defend their client and get them off.  You still see it all the time in these days of social media--where people who are guilty, are still represented by attorneys. That's how our justice system is set up and works. I'm blaming the jury for letting Simpson go free, because ultimately, that's who did; not his lawyers.

[jenh526]

One of the documentaries addressed the reason why Kardashian stayed on the defense team. The show interviewed Kris Jenner about it, and she said she was questioning him about it at the time too. I don't remember exactly what she said but I got the impression that he felt that if he left it would send a strong signal of Simpson's guilt and would likely jeopardize his client's chances. And as was mentioned above, he signed on to defend him. I'm reminded of the movie Cape Fear where the villain's defense attorney had information that would've helped his client, but suppressed it because he believed he was guilty and wanted him to go to prison. The attorney violated his professional duty to his client. I think Kardashian was basically trapped, and the best he could do was hope that Simpson was convicted, while still maintaining his professional code of ethics.

Edited October 14, 2015 by jenh526

[Bastet]

Criminal defense attorneys defend clients they know are guilty all the time; the idea is to ensure the client has a fair trial -- make the prosecution do the job it is required to do in order to deprive someone of their liberty or even life.  It's why I have such respect for public defenders.  And I don't hate attorneys like OJ's "Dream Team."  It was good legal strategy - because deflection was the only realistic option given the evidence - and it worked.  But on a basic human level, yeah, it is a struggle given the result.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Bastet

[Maharincess]

I think it's a totally different situation when the person you're defending killed somebody that you had a personal relationship with and considered a friend. Nicole wasn't some random murder, she was their good friend and knew their children.

To me that's different than defending somebody you don't know who killed somebody else you don't know.

[GreatKazu]

 

I read his book, it made me sick. First for all that he did to help the killer get off knowing all along he was guilty as hell. Also for his treatment of Nicole when she was alive. He cared more about living the OJ "lifestyle" than he did for an abused human being. Him feeling bad now is too little, too late asshole.

Then for his hiding of the property so the Goldmans couldn't get it

Then after all of that, he tried to make money off the murders by writing a book about it. It means nothing that he admitted it and admitted he was wrong.

If he had donated all proceeds to a battered women's charity, then I might believe that he really feels remorse.

Sick bastard.

Agree. And to think, Faye Resnick gets blasted for selling out her friend by writing a book. I don't agree with what she did, that was pretty bad. However, she gets all this blame, but she wasn't hiding a killer. Faye is corrupt, but she wasn't hiding any evidence which is a crime! Writing a book isn't a crime. It may be a moral crime, but this guy committed a crime that could have put the killer away for good. Faye wrote a book about her relationship with her friend, someone she loved. This asshole here wrote a book about someone he didn't give two shits about and years later says he feels sorry? I cannot comprehend.

 

 

Just an FYI, the photos of the shoes didn't come out until the civil trial. Wasn't an issue in the criminal trial.

The shoes were mentioned in the criminal trial when they talked about the size, the style of the shoe, and when they showed the bloody shoe prints on the sidewalk in photos. At that point, the probability that the killer just happened to have the same shoe size as Simpson, and wore those expensive shoes to commit double murder, was slim.  The photos that appeared later on just enhanced what I already believed. I jumbled the information together in my post and realize it wasn't clear.

[psychoticstate]

I think Kardashian was in a terrible predicament.  Like most of Simpson's insiders, he knew about their violent relationship.  I'm certain he knew almost immediately that Simpson was guilty (or at least recognized it fairly quickly.)  Like many of the players in the criminal trial, I'm sure he didn't want to be the one that caused Simpson to be convicted and imprisoned (although Simpson himself and his actions would have been what convicted him.)  I don't doubt that Kardashian had loyalties toward Simpson and toward Nicole.  I hope that I am never in that kind of predicament - - it's a no-win.  I do think that he thought that Simpson would be convicted, with or without his support.  His expression clearly told that he was floored at the verdict.

 

I read The Morally Corrupt Faye Resnick's book when it was released and I found it distasteful.  It did seem that she was trying to capitalize on her friend's murder.  If she wanted to tell all about how Nicole suffered, why not take the stand, get sworn in and do it during the criminal trial?  That said, I think Simpson's sports agent was also trying to capitalize and make a buck, although I did find the information in his book interesting.   BTW, I can never see or think of Faye Resnick without tacking The Morally Corrupt in front of her name.  Thank you, Camille Grammer!

 

I too don't fault the so-called Dream Team.  Their job was to get an acquittal for their client, by whatever means.  I fault the judge, who should have roped them in and not allowed them to play the race card, and the jury who clearly had no intention of convicting, no matter what.  I remember the tensions in LA at the time with Rodney King and Reginald Denny but the jury was not supposed to consider those factors when they deliberated and they obviously did.  Three hours shows, in my opinion, they did not seriously deliberate on the evidence or the case at all.  It was shameful.

[hatchetgirl]

My mom told me all about OK abusing Nicole when they lived in Laguna. It was weird. I knew him from the hertz commercials and stuff so when she'd go on about him being this horrible person, I remember thinking ok whatever mom. But then the murder happened and I was like yikes my mom was right!

[BooBear]

My mom told me all about OK abusing Nicole when they lived in Laguna. It was weird. I knew him from the hertz commercials and stuff so when she'd go on about him being this horrible person, I remember thinking ok whatever mom. But then the murder happened and I was like yikes my mom was right!

Though, this is not a defense of OJ... but it seems totally obvious to me that OJ will turn out to have CTE -- or damage from playing football. I watched a frontline special on this and straight up... OJ is textbook of those symptoms but you can't really say for sure until the person is dead. And so many football players who have the symptoms (crazy out of control violence is one of them) turn out to have it once they die.  I feel bad for everyone involved. So many people have formed a little industry of hating OJ for his, intentional, they believed, behavior. But, when it turns out, and I am sure it will, that OJ had less intentional culpability than we thought... I really hope that people can handle it and put the blame where the blame lies properly, the football industry.

 

As for the Jury, I think it was a clear case of Jury Nullification. They just didn't care... they were not going to convict.

[Shannon L.]

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, either, BooBear.  Which makes wonder how the defense would have been different if we'd known about the disease and it's symptoms.  Since it couldn't be proven until an autopsy was performed, then maybe they'd have gone with the insanity plea--because murder is murder and, if the person did it, they need some sort of punishment.  I wonder if I was on the jury how I would have voted if that were the case.  Unfortunately, I think you're right  that the jury didn't care--they were not going to convict, so I guess it doesn't matter.

 

Edited for too many damn commas. 

Edited February 1, 2016 by Shannon L.

[Spartan Girl]

Humph. I'd buy the CTE if OJ and his legal team used that instead of just blaming the cops for "framing" him.

[WendyCR72]

I...don't even get why this is being made. It's now been 21 years since this occurred. (Well, 20 if you go by the civil case.) Why open old wounds? Ratings? And with OJ now in prison, it just seems more a case of trying to keep the grandiosity that was this case relevant rather than as a vehicle for anything new.

 

If it must be, I hope the families are getting the monetary earnings from it that Simpson tried so damned hard to keep from them.

[BW Manilowe]

I...don't even get why this is being made. It's now been 21 years since this occurred. (Well, 20 if you go by the civil case.) Why open old wounds? Ratings? And with OJ now in prison, it just seems more a case of trying to keep the grandiosity that was this case relevant rather than as a vehicle for anything new.

If it must be, I hope the families are getting the monetary earnings from it that Simpson tried so damned hard to keep from them.

The Brown & Goldman families weren't even consulted on anything to do with the upcoming FX show. At least that's what (I think it was) 1 of Nicole's sisters told People magazine, & I read on their site in the last week or so. They have concerns over how their lost loved ones will be portrayed, as a result. So, if they weren't consulted about the show, I don't think they're making any money from it.

Edited February 1, 2016 by BW Manilowe

[pennben]

I guess I get why it is getting made, but I can tell you I have zero interest in watching this travesty play out all over again. 

 

As for DNA evidence, the thing was back then, average folks on a jury didn't understand it.  Now, average folks on a jury expect it and can be hesitant to convict without it because of all they see in legal shows.

 

As for OJ having CTE, that discussion wasn't around back then in the general public so I'm not sure what a jury would have thought. 

 

 

But, when it turns out, and I am sure it will, that OJ had less intentional culpability than we thought... I really hope that people can handle it and put the blame where the blame lies properly, the football industry.

 

I'm  not going to having any problems handling this at all, and I will have no problem keeping the blame on the murderer.  We now know, sadly, lots of football players have suffered from CTE, but it seems only a very, very few commit double murder. I don't see it as a 'get out of jail free' card.

 

My personal thinking on regrets about CTE not being a topic back then as it relates to this specific case  is that it is too bad OJ didn't contribute his brain for study by killing himself in the back of that Bronco way back when.  I have no use for abusers who eventually slaughter.

 

No chance I'm watching any of this or the ESPN thing coming up.  None.

Edited February 2, 2016 by pennben

[rcc]

The Brown & Goldman families weren't even consulted on anything to do with the upcoming FX show. At least that's what (I think it was) 1 of Nicole's sisters told People magazine, & I read on their site in the last week or so. They have concerns over how their lost loved ones will be portrayed, as a result. So, if they weren't consulted about the show, I don't think they're making any money from it.

Does that mean OJ will be getting paid for this show? If the Brown and Goldman families have to sue again that is so unfair.

[Shannon L.]

I'm interested in this because when it happened, I was working ridiculous hours and didn't really hear a lot of the details.  I heard some snippets of information and some of what is being discussed here is jogging a couple of memories, but as a whole, I don't know too much about it.  Of course, I remember the verdict clearly.  I was working at a hotel and the manager allowed us all to gather around front desk, which looked onto the lounge tv, to see it.  You should have heard the reaction in the lounge. 

 

I do remember thinking that the jury should be ashamed of themselves for taking such a short time to deliberate when they had 9 months of testimony/evidence to cover.  That was an insult.  Everyone remembers the look on Fred Goldman's face when the verdict was read, but I'll never forget his daughter crying out and doubling over, sobbing (unless I'm remembering wrong, in which case, don't I fell like an idiot). 

 

The whole "if they don't fit, you must acquit" thing bugged me because I don't think one other issue, besides the ones that have been mentioned, was brought up:  Have you ever forced on gloves that were too tight and had to take them off?  You practically have to peel them off of you, but, OJ, IIRC, whipped those suckers off in hot second.  I also remembering wishing dogs could talk because from what I understand, a well trained Akita will attack a stranger who is attacking on of it's owners, but if the attacker is one of it's owners, it'd would probably sit by and do nothing. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

 I could not go anywhere and not hear about this when the news broke of the double murders, and the farce that was the trial. It was all anyone could talk about.

 

I caught snippets of the trial and testimony, because I was deliberately staying away from it, but like I said, tabloid tv, mainstream news shows, and the entertainment shows were talking about this case, non-stop.

 

I may tune in to see if the movie captured how horrible everyone was or if OJ's defense team will be glorified or not. Purely out of morbid curiosity and let's face it, so I can snark about it here.

 

Add me to not giving a shit if OJ has CTE; that doesn't excuse him for being a double murderer. It's like there's no such thing as personal responsibility. What's next? The sudden discovery of a tumor in Bill Cosby's brain to explain away why he's a multiple rapist and it's not his fault?

[BW Manilowe]

Does that mean OJ will be getting paid for this show? If the Brown and Goldman families have to sue again that is so unfair.

I doubt it. I don't think any of the real-life people involved in the case were consulted by the production team beforehand--though I know some of the actors did meet their characters' real life counterparts either during or after filming.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Jeebus, I'm a moron.  When I stated upthread I'd probably check the "movie" out, I was talking about FX's American Crime anthology of "The People v. O.J." and not the documentary, since I missed out on watching that.

 

But yeesh, the make-up job on Travolta is horrid.  And Vance's statement about how there were interesting things "behind the scenes" and the people involved just made me roll my eyes.  But I suppose I'll have to snark in the American Crime forum, since this is the wrong thread! Sorry! My bad!

[BW Manilowe]

Here's the link to the forum for the FX OJ Simpson show that starts airing in about an hour in the Eastern/Central Time Zones as I write this.

http://forums.previously.tv/forum/2171-american-crime-story/

[ShadowHunter]

Does that mean OJ will be getting paid for this show? If the Brown and Goldman families have to sue again that is so unfair.

No he is not. In fact he cant even watch the show. An article came out a few days ago saying he wont be able to see since his prison does not get FX.