Caitlyn Jenner: Call Me Caitlyn

[bichonblitz]

And from a transgender point of view, Jenner making himself the center of national attention on Father's Day seems pretty fucked up.   He says he's a woman.   Women don't celebrate Father's Day.   Yes, he's still their father and has a right to be honored by his kids, but it should have been done privately.  Instead, he used the occasion as an opportunity to remind the world of his male self.    Pick a side, Bruce.

ITA. I didn't understand Bruce when he was part of the Kardashian machine and I don't understand Caitlyn now. I don't think "coming out" to the world has changed what a screwed up person she is. For once, I admire Kris for staying the hell away from this mess. 

[RealityCowgirl]

There are parents who are blind and deaf, who have lost limbs, who have returned from war with shattered bodies and minds.  There are parents who struggle with debilitating diseases like multiple sclerosis and ALS, parents who are fighting aggressive cancers knowing they're probably going to lose in the end.  There are parents who are dirt poor, parents who work 60-80 hours a week, parents who live in third world countries and have to listen to their children cry from hunger.   There have been generations of parents who were in the closet -- and many who still are today.   There are parents who live in countries where expressing your true self can mean imprisonment or even death ... All over the world there are parents who have crosses to bear yet they still do whatever they possibly can to put their children's welfare and happiness first.   They sacrifice.   They suffer in silence.   They deal.  

 

Jenner blaming his failure as a parent on his gender dysphoria is a cowardly excuse, especially in light of the luxurious life he was blessed with.   And to see that "off-roading" photo plastered all over the national news as America's big Father's Day story is a disgusting insult to all the real parents of the world who do the best for their kids through good times and bad, whatever the cost.

 

And from a transgender point of view, Jenner making himself the center of national attention on Father's Day seems pretty fucked up.   He says he's a woman.   Women don't celebrate Father's Day.   Yes, he's still their father and has a right to be honored by his kids, but it should have been done privately.  Instead, he used the occasion as an opportunity to remind the world of his male self.    Pick a side, Bruce.

Perfectly stated. I'm glad that Caitlyn is finally able to live the life she was meant to live. I support her right to do whatever she need to do that. Good for her. But that and the clear *failures* as a *parent* are two different things.

The good news is that the four oldest children seem to have emerged on the side of healthy despite one parent's clear and sweeping failures and indifference. Jury is still out on Kendall. IF she makes it to the other side, it will be in spite of both of her parents. Kylie is headed for something ugly, and the lion's share of the blame falls on Kris and her other parent. Bruce, Caitlyn - whoever - has failed her deeply. She is still a child, despite what she is allowed to believe and behave.

The other kids had mothers (and at least one stepfather - can't remember the situation for Casey and Burt) who stepped up and filled the gap. The youngest two are stuck with two self-absorbed wastes of flesh.

The common thread for all is one absentee parent who failed six children.

[Artsda]

 

The good news is that the four oldest children seem to have emerged on the side of healthy despite one parent's clear and sweeping failures and indifference

 

Brody is more a reality show magnet than anyone. He's gone from reality show to reality show to be in the spotlight. From things like The Hills, he and Brandon had their reality show where they were spoiled brats. 

 

I don't think the first 4 deserve to be placed on a pedestal just because Bruce (at the time) didn't raise them. He didn't raise Brody and Brody is starting a sex talk show on E! (a show the family network gave him) in a matter of weeks. Brandon jumped on KUWTK for seasons when it was beneficial to him for his music career.  

 

 

New promo.

http://www.people.com/article/i-am-cait-promo-caitlyn-jenner-shopping-rides-motorcycle?xid=socialflow_facebook_peoplemag

Edited June 26, 2015 by Artsda

[jonesingjay]

Happy belated Father's Day, Caitlyn. You look marvelous, darling. Off roading in your couture, girl! 

[escape]

Perfectly stated. I'm glad that Caitlyn is finally able to live the life she was meant to live. I support her right to do whatever she need to do that. Good for her. But that and the clear *failures* as a *parent* are two different things.

The good news is that the four oldest children seem to have emerged on the side of healthy despite one parent's clear and sweeping failures and indifference. Jury is still out on Kendall. IF she makes it to the other side, it will be in spite of both of her parents. Kylie is headed for something ugly, and the lion's share of the blame falls on Kris and her other parent. Bruce, Caitlyn - whoever - has failed her deeply. She is still a child, despite what she is allowed to believe and behave.

The other kids had mothers (and at least one stepfather - can't remember the situation for Casey and Burt) who stepped up and filled the gap. The youngest two are stuck with two self-absorbed wastes of flesh.

The common thread for all is one absentee parent who failed six children.

So if Kendall makes it, it is in spite of her parents?  And if Kylie doesn't, it's because of her parents?  There's a double standard here.  Brody is a Kim wannabe - but not as successful.  Brandon has appeared on reality TV to further his career. 

[jonesingjay]

A new day. A new I Am Cait promo video. One month away from the start of her docu-series. I'm excited and looking forward to it. Hopefully, it'll stay away from manufactured drama, and manage to be lighthearted while at the same time, shedding light on transitioning late in life. She really does look good and happy. 

[ginger90]

Is thee a thread for the new show or will it be under this one?

[jonesingjay]

Is thee a thread for the new show or will it be under this one?

 

There's going to be a new show thread for it. I'm unsure of when it'll be created though.

[nexxie]

Definitely looking forward to Cait's show - fascinating TV!

[OnceSane]

Is thee a thread for the new show or will it be under this one?

The docu-series will have its own forum, you just have to request it.

[Artsda]

Caitlyn Jenner appeared at a New York Pride event on Sunday, and the crowd went wild

Caitlyn Jenner appeared at Voss Events’ annual Pride Party at PH-D Rooftop Lounge in New York’s Dream Downtown Hotel on Sunday. Video of Jenner arriving at the party was posted to Instagram.

 

According to Variety reporter Ramin Setoodeh, Jenner was filming an episode of I Am Cait, her new reality show, during Pride. Voss Events tweeted a photo of Jenner enjoying the event, while fans also posted pictures of the 65-year-old taking selfies.

[Cosmic Muffin]

The promos for her show make Caitlyn seem so appealing. I don't know if they had to do dozens of takes or she just is this pleasant now that she's happy with her gender presentation, but I stop to watch every time they run the ads for the show. She seems so upbeat and optimistic. I never found Bruce that interesting. Maybe someone is just really good at creating promos. I'll probably check out the show.

[jonesingjay]

The promos for her show make Caitlyn seem so appealing. I don't know if they had to do dozens of takes or she just is this pleasant now that she's happy with her gender presentation, but I stop to watch every time they run the ads for the show. She seems so upbeat and optimistic. I never found Bruce that interesting. Maybe someone is just really good at creating promos. I'll probably check out the show.

 

That's been very interesting. Seeing how happy and alive Caitlyn is in comparison to Bruce. It's night and day. 

[nexxie]

That's been very interesting. Seeing how happy and alive Caitlyn is in comparison to Bruce. It's night and day.

Sure does seem as if this soul is now comfortable in her own skin!

[howmanywords]

Probably because she's genuinely happy now and doesn't have to hide who she is. I think she looked very pretty at Pride. Nice makeup that suits her well.

[Kromm]

Perfectly stated. I'm glad that Caitlyn is finally able to live the life she was meant to live. I support her right to do whatever she need to do that. Good for her. But that and the clear *failures* as a *parent* are two different things.

Lesson to be learned: Fixing your gender issues doesn't magically transform you into being a better person, nor does it magically fix your past.

Someone who was long an asshole is probably still an asshole.  That said, only time will tell if being happier in general over time starts to make a difference to how Jenner treats the people around her.

[iwasish]

Right now I think she's on a high, all the attention and accolades. Bruce was pretty much part of the furniture in the Kardashian house, not given much respect. I think her ego is going to explode for a while. A year from now when the newness has worn off... Let's see where she is and how things are going within the family. I bet a lot of the same issues they had before will still exist

[jonesingjay]

Probably because she's genuinely happy now and doesn't have to hide who she is. I think she looked very pretty at Pride. Nice makeup that suits her well.

 

She looked very good. Very happy. Having a good time. I wonder why she didn't go to Pride in West Hollywood. I would've liked to have seen her. The more appearances she makes, the more I look forward to watching her series. 

[Snarryfan]

She was at Pride in West Hollywood--it was a few weeks ago. She was apparently at an LGBT Republican booth taking photos with people. She was overshadowed by Channing Tatum and Matt Bomer dancing on the Magic Mike XXL float.

[jonesingjay]

She was at Pride in West Hollywood--it was a few weeks ago. She was apparently at an LGBT Republican booth taking photos with people. She was overshadowed by Channing Tatum and Matt Bomer dancing on the Magic Mike XXL float.

 

I had no idea! I was there, but didn't stay that long. I only spotted Gloria Allred.

[jnymph]

Now that Caitlyn has emerged; I can see a strong resemblance between Kendall and her.  I didn't really see it with Kendall and Bruce.

[Artsda]

From all the photos of NY this weekend, it definitely seems like Caitlyn is more social/public than Bruce. Shopping at Patricia Field and wearing family type clothes like Herve Leger and the leopard prints. Bruce acted like  a hermit and didn't like going anywhere, which could be because he rather stay in alone so he could be "her." 

 

However the cameras were also with her the entire NY trip, so it's also all for the show. 

[Kromm]

From all the photos of NY this weekend, it definitely seems like Caitlyn is more social/public than Bruce. Shopping at Patricia Field and wearing family type clothes like Herve Leger and the leopard prints. Bruce acted like  a hermit and didn't like going anywhere, which could be because he rather stay in alone so he could be "her." 

 

However the cameras were also with her the entire NY trip, so it's also all for the show. 

I don't know if it's really right to talk like they're two separate people.  I mean it's moreso that it's just one person who's able to act more like them-self than they used to be able to.

[Artsda]

I don't know if it's really right to talk like they're two separate people.  I mean it's moreso that it's just one person who's able to act more like them-self than they used to be able to.

 

It's how Caitlyn (she makes references to "her" like Caitlyn's was a different person) and even her kids talk about about this transition like Caitlyn is a different person. Kim says she saw "her" for the first time. Burt, Cassandra etc.. all compare Bruce the father to Caitlyn the father.

 

Like they're not the same person. Burt said how he hoped Caitlyn's a better parent than Bruce. Acting like they're not the same. 

[Kromm]

I buy (and always have) the general Trans logic that HOW you refer to a person is totally up to them.  This is the thing that the conservative shitheads mess up (sometimes deliberately).  The whole "Blah blah how do I know what to call them and when", leading to some fat old bible thumper rolling their eyes, and the easy clear rejoinder "you call them what they ask to be called". (gender designation and name).

 

But I think that's totally different from claiming you've rebooted your identity.  And if Caitlyn is actually acting like that's the case, it's total bullshit. People can reinvent themselves, especially when they are happier. But it's not an instant process the moment they change their name.  You still did the stuff you did, said the stuff you said, didn't do the stuff you didn't do, etc.  

 

Caitlyn may be an underexplored, underutilized repressed part of the person who used to be named Bruce, but she's still the same person overall.

[Maysie]

 

But I think that's totally different from claiming you've rebooted your identity.  And if Caitlyn is actually acting like that's the case, it's total bullshit. People can reinvent themselves, especially when they are happier. But it's not an instant process the moment they change their name.  You still did the stuff you did, said the stuff you said, didn't do the stuff you didn't do, etc. 

 

Caitlyn may be an underexplored, underutilized repressed part of the person who used to be named Bruce, but she's still the same person overall.

 

I totally agree with this.

 

I get the feeling that it's a bit politically incorrect to call Caitlyn out for being a shit father because that was Bruce, not Caitlyn. Bruce was the bad dad. Bruce was the henpecked husband. Bruce lived a lie because he didn't feel like he could be himself and that affected everything.

 

And yes, to an extent it did affect everything but that's still not the reason for everything, in my opinion. It becomes an excuse for everything because he was living a lie and not being true to himself, blah blah blah. But here's how I see it: we all have our basic ethical code, our basic guiding principles. They may evolve over time and circumstance, they may shift, etc. but I don't think it's as simple as everyone's making it out for Bruce/Caitlyn. I keep coming back to the Vanity Fair article and I simply can't escape the fact that she was pissed that the kids wouldn't participate in his money making docu-series. Disappointment I can understand. But anger because he wants good ratings?

 

That article left me with the feeling that it's still all about Caitlyn. And I understand that to some point because the kids are mostly grown, she's 65 and finally able to live the life, in the open, as she sees fit. But that's no different from Bruce who was all about Bruce because he lived a lie.

 

It will be interesting to see how out and about and engaged Caitlyn is, doing good works for the cause, when the cameras aren't rolling. I think the real Caitlyn is the one that won't be in front of the camera.

[Jellybeans]

Girl can rock a mini! Anyone see Cait's pictures at DailyMail?

[Artsda]

 

I keep coming back to the Vanity Fair article and I simply can't escape the fact that she was pissed that the kids wouldn't participate in his money making docu-series. Disappointment I can understand. But anger because he wants good ratings?

And even hurled profanities to the bio 4 according to the Vanity Fair article. I just can't picture the parent Kendall and Kylie got ever hurling profanities at them. 

 

That's why I think the bio kids may be having too much expectations for this new parent they believe they're getting. Burt  saying he hopes Caitlyn will be a better parent than Bruce was. He's acting like they're different and it may be setting up expectations that their dream parent they always wanted Bruce to be they'll now get in Caitlyn which could end up being not the case. I just don't think suddenly Caitlyn will be the parent she was to the 6 to the 4. Hopefully she will be a better parent, but from what I read in Vanity Fair so far it seems like a lot of hurt on that side and inviting Cassandra over for girls night still isn't being that parent he was to the other 6 to me.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Artsda

[Gam2]

Kromm, calling people "conservative shitheads" and "fat old Bible thumpers" does not advance your point of view. I am neither of those things but was still uncertain what one calls a transgender.  Being kind, respectful and considerate of other people who hold opposing views goes both ways. 

[Kromm]

Kromm, calling people "conservative shitheads" and "fat old Bible thumpers" does not advance your point of view. I am neither of those things but was still uncertain what one calls a transgender.  Being kind, respectful and considerate of other people who hold opposing views goes both ways. 

If those terms offend you, I'll withdraw them and am sorry it offended you, but the key part of that was that a lot of people of a certain demographic (especially in the media serving that demo) PRETEND they don't know what to call a trans-gender person to score backhanded points with their audience.  It's become a game.  If you genuinely don't know what to call such a person, then I hope the simple statement "whatever they ask to be called" covers things. Clearly we do have to deal with English language pronouns, but I think we've all heard pundits use "it" or "he/she" or deliberately use "he" when they know the person has asked to be called "she", or visa-versa. It's pretty clear in those cases an agenda is being fulfilled, even though that might not be the case for everyone in every case.

Of course the abuses comes from both sides.  If Caitlyn really is acting like she's a new person and using it as a get-out-of-responsibility-for-my-life card, that's not cool either.  That was a key part of my post too.

[Gam2]

Of course, I'll accept your apology and appreciate that you recognized the point I was making. I do agree with a lot of what you've said in your explanation but my point still stands. Lumping all people together and calling them derogatory names does not advance with dialogue. We're all trying to understand the transgender issue and no doubt Caitlyn Jenner's story has helped us all to do that. I'm not sure that I'll ever understand it completely but transgender people deserve to live with dignity and respect. As do all the rest of us. 

[Kromm]

We're all trying to understand the transgender issue and no doubt Caitlyn Jenner's story has helped us all to do that. I'm not sure that I'll ever understand it completely but transgender people deserve to live with dignity and respect. As do all the rest of us. 

Okay, but we've been talking about a very specific targeted part of the trans-gender discussion, not the whole of it. You don't have to understand their motivation to understand simple labeling issues, and frankly I don't buy that there's anyone out there living exposed to the major media who can honestly claim to no longer understand them.  It's utterly indefensible to call a human being "it", and yet that happens routinely even still as part of some people's blunt attacks on the issue.  "He/She" is something someone's 90 year old grandfather might say about a hermaphrodite they saw in a circus freakshow in their youth, and unless they somehow don't understand the differences between hermaphrodites and transgenders, using that is pretty inherently hateful too. 

 

As for calling people the opposite pronoun from what they've clearly stated they want?  That's a bit more insidious.  Sure it can happen accidentally, but I've seen entire news reports (lets be honest... most of them on Fox News) where someone uses the wrong pronoun over and over (including between different reports) and it's clearly a game/insult/shot at the situation.  

 

And that's just with the pronouns.  It happens with the actual names too, of course.

 

Really there's not much to understand.  Save understanding their motivation for another day. But understanding the speech part of it?  It's darn easy.

[Crucial]

Girl can rock a mini! Anyone see Cait's pictures at DailyMail?

 

For me, I didn't think she rocked it. For me, I don't think anyone over 60 looks good in a mini or low cleavage bearing dresses (Kris - looking at you with the cleavage bearing stuff).  But that's just me.  When I first saw her, I thought she's too old for the outfit.   I thought she looked good in the dark blue dress, wasn't a mini, but she looked much better in that one (I thought). Her taste in clothing is much better than any of her Kardashian family for sure.

 

This is the dress I mean.  I guess it's not really dark blue.  She looks amazing

 

http://www.justjared.com/2015/06/30/caitlyn-jenner-flaunts-some-cleavage-for-broadway-night/

Edited July 1, 2015 by Crucial

[howmanywords]

I thought she looked amazing. Wow. I suspect like with all women she will have those no makeup, dress down days and then some days more than others will be dressed up with her hair done and sporting a styish dress and shoes.  The look she had for fathers day and that photo she posted on instagram a couple of weeks back where you saw her and her friends from the back are probably what her overall everyday style is.

 

I saw Sophia Loren pretty recently on a red carpet and Raquel Welch, hmm I wanna a couple of years ago.  Both women are well over 70 and they were rocking tight dresses and their cleavage put some youngins to shame.

[millennium]

Probably because she's genuinely happy now and doesn't have to hide who she is.

 

Probably because the spotlight is now squarely on Jenner and Jenner alone.  

 

Would Jenner be at the Pride event if it weren't being filmed for the reality show?   Seriously doubt it.

[millennium]

 

I get the feeling that it's a bit politically incorrect to call Caitlyn out for being a shit father because that was Bruce, not Caitlyn. Bruce was the bad dad. Bruce was the henpecked husband. Bruce lived a lie because he didn't feel like he could be himself and that affected everything.

 

 

No, no and no.   They are the same person.   Transitioning is not a mulligan.   That's like saying it was Bruce who killed that poor woman in the car wreck, not Caitlyn.    We are all responsible for our actions -- especially where children are involved -- regardless of what pressures might be bearing down on us.   Just because Jenner throws on a dress, gets hair extensions and has a couple of saline bags inserted into his chest doesn't wipe the slate clean. 

 

As I stated upthread, there are many people whose burdens are far heavier than any Bruce Jenner ever carried, yet they manage to love their children and their spouses and get through the day.   Nobody's calling them heroes, but they are.   They're ten times the hero Jenner will ever be.   They just don't have a fawning, sensation-seeking public hanging on their every move.

Edited July 1, 2015 by millennium

[jonesingjay]

Caitlyn was giving me life these past couple of weeks. She won the gold and my heart. 

 

 

I need more super fierce Caitlyn gifs in my life. None of this tired down button-ness she was serving in her coming out interview. 

[iwasish]

No, no and no.   They are the same person.   Transitioning is not a mulligan.   That's like saying it was Bruce who killed that poor woman in the car wreck, not Caitlyn.    We are all responsible for our actions -- especially where children are involved -- regardless of what pressures might be bearing down on us.   Just because Jenner throws on a dress, gets hair extensions and has a couple of saline bags inserted into his chest doesn't wipe the slate clean. 

 

As I stated upthread, there are many people whose burdens are far heavier than any Bruce Jenner ever carried, yet they manage to love their children and their spouses and get through the day.   Nobody's calling them heroes, but they are.   They're ten times the hero Jenner will ever be.   They just don't have a fawning, sensation-seeking public hanging on their every move.

What bugs me that her excuse for being a lousy parent to her older kids is her gender issues, that she was unhappy. But why then was she such a great parent to her non bio kids?and to the youngest, at least for the bulk of their years? Bruce in all those clips we've seen of him in the beginning of his and Kris's marriage right thru probably half of the reality show was a fun loving happy guy. What changed? I think it was the family dynamics, he was no longer needed as a breadwinner, Kris and the kids treated him less and less with respect and consideration, he was ignored and disrespected. And I think a subtle bit of jealousy. They were all out in the spotlight being lauded for simply being famous and as he told Diane Sawyer, he had the real story, theirs were all so much fluff.

[millennium]

What bugs me that her excuse for being a lousy parent to her older kids is her gender issues, that she was unhappy. But why then was she such a great parent to her non bio kids?and to the youngest, at least for the bulk of their years? Bruce in all those clips we've seen of him in the beginning of his and Kris's marriage right thru probably half of the reality show was a fun loving happy guy. What changed? I think it was the family dynamics, he was no longer needed as a breadwinner, Kris and the kids treated him less and less with respect and consideration, he was ignored and disrespected. And I think a subtle bit of jealousy. They were all out in the spotlight being lauded for simply being famous and as he told Diane Sawyer, he had the real story, theirs were all so much fluff.

 

Transitioning was a magic pill for Bruce Jenner.   It afforded him an excuse for being a bad parent, a bad husband, it ended his years of being stuck on the sidelines while those undeserving girls got all the attention, it made him relevant again, it put him in the news again, it made him a hell of a lot richer, it made people want to see and be seen with him, it got people calling him a hero once more, cameras follow everywhere, and anyone who dares to criticize will be publicly eviscerated.   Probably even the prosecutors are afraid to bring charges for the car wreck, for fear of backlash.

 

Oh, and I guess he gets to be a woman too, whatever that means to him. 

 

The whole thing strikes me as a narcissistic, autogynephilic fantasy made real.   It makes becoming a woman seem like a superficial means to an end, rather than a heartfelt sole objective.

Edited July 1, 2015 by millennium

[Timetoread]

Right now I think she's on a high, all the attention and accolades. Bruce was pretty much part of the furniture in the Kardashian house, not given much respect. I think her ego is going to explode for a while. A year from now when the newness has worn off... Let's see where she is and how things are going within the family. I bet a lot of the same issues they had before will still exist

 

I agree with you except for one point.  About Bruce not being given much respect.  I no longer blame the Kardashians for the mess that is Bruce.  He was never treated like a man because he never was one.   That said, he has ALWAYS had an ego and thinks of nobody but himself/herself.

 

One last thing.  I actually like the style but Caitlyn must be informed that while she gets to be female, she is a 65 year old female - not one of the K girls.  I don't believe in being a slave to age appropriate, particularly if you've got the goods (think Helen Mirren) but thigh high miniskirts don't do anybody favors, especially the older set.  Just sayin.

[Timetoread]

Transitioning was a magic pill for Bruce Jenner.   It afforded him an excuse for being a bad parent, a bad husband, it ended his years of being stuck on the sidelines while those undeserving girls got all the attention, it made him relevant again, it put him in the news again, it made him a hell of a lot richer, it made people want to see and be seen with him, it got people calling him a hero once more, cameras follow everywhere, and anyone who dares to criticize will be publicly eviscerated.   Probably even the prosecutors are afraid to bring charges for the car wreck, for fear of backlash.

 

Oh, and I guess he gets to be a woman too, whatever that means to him. 

 

The whole thing strikes me as a narcissistic, autogynephilic fantasy made real.   It makes becoming a woman seem like a superficial means to an end, rather than a heartfelt sole objective.

PREACH!

[iwasish]

Have the ESPY awards ever be given out on primetime network TV before, or is this just because of Caitlyn? 

[Artsda]

It was announced long before Caitlyn, that this years ESPY's with Joel McHale hosting would air for the first time on ABC. 

Edited July 1, 2015 by Artsda

[cpcathy]

I thought the network airing that seemed like a weird coincidence as well.

[Maysie]

 

No, no and no.   They are the same person.   Transitioning is not a mulligan.   That's like saying it was Bruce who killed that poor woman in the car wreck, not Caitlyn.    We are all responsible for our actions -- especially where children are involved -- regardless of what pressures might be bearing down on us.   Just because Jenner throws on a dress, gets hair extensions and has a couple of saline bags inserted into his chest doesn't wipe the slate clean.

 

I totally agree. When I wrote what I did above, I was trying to make the point that I feel like we're getting a bit of a sales job. I think Bruce was genuinely unhappy and transitioning, etc., however I do think that it became an opportunity for Caitlyn to whitewash her past and blame stuff on Bruce -- poor, old, unhappy, unfulfilled Bruce. I take exception to that for exactly the reasons you state above -- Bruce/Caitlyn/whomever is still responsible at the end of the day. And when I read about how good and truly pissed she was at her children over the tv show, I don't totally buy into the change we're being sold. So it's kind of a double negative for me; blame Bruce and airbrush Caitlyn's image for television, ala Kardashian.

 

Caitlyn's actions after the tv cameras are gone are what's really going to tell the tale.

[Kromm]

I'm looking for someone to make a parody of the old TV show "Kate & Allie" ("two divorced women, both with children, who decide to live together in the same house") with Caitlyn Jenner moving in with someone and "raising" her now adult kids.

[mwell345]

 

It was announced long before Caitlyn, that this years ESPY's with Joel McHale hosting would air for the first time on ABC.

 

Thanks - I was also wondering about that.  I saw a commercial for it last night - they did not mention Caitlyn, but did mention other sports figures who will be in attendance.

[Artsda]

Brody Jenner gets along better with Caitlyn than Bruce

 

Caitlyn Jenner‘s son, Brody, says he gets along much better with Caitlyn than he did with Bruce.

“I’ve known Bruce for a long time and I didn’t get along with Bruce,” the 31-year-old reality TV fixture recently told E! News. “Caitlyn I get along with a little more, because Caitlyn is actually who she really is and she’s living her life finally now as the person that she always was.”

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

 

I do think that it became an opportunity for Caitlyn to whitewash her past and blame stuff on Bruce -- poor, old, unhappy, unfulfilled Bruce. I take exception to that for exactly the reasons you state above -- Bruce/Caitlyn/whomever is still responsible at the end of the day. And when I read about how good and truly pissed she was at her children over the tv show, I don't totally buy into the change we're being sold.

Caitlyn is now getting the attention she craved now that she's not Bruce anymore. What person doesn't want to be needed and have the spotlight on herself? And what person wants herself represented negatively?  It makes me wonder if a part of this wasn't just for the attention. I was watching E! and the paps were yelling at Caitlyn like she was the best thing since sliced bread (I'm assuming these were the paps for the reality show). It will be interesting to see how she's treated once the "bloom is off the rose" and she becomes assimilated as opposed to being the "It Girl" right now. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

What bugs me that her excuse for being a lousy parent to her older kids is her gender issues, that she was unhappy. But why then was she such a great parent to her non bio kids?and to the youngest, at least for the bulk of their years? Bruce in all those clips we've seen of him in the beginning of his and Kris's marriage right thru probably half of the reality show was a fun loving happy guy. What changed? I think it was the family dynamics, he was no longer needed as a breadwinner, Kris and the kids treated him less and less with respect and consideration, he was ignored and disrespected. And I think a subtle bit of jealousy. They were all out in the spotlight being lauded for simply being famous and as he told Diane Sawyer, he had the real story, theirs were all so much fluff.

Bruce was the only one in that family with any real accomplishments as well. He's an Olympic gold medalist. When the show started, he was the only one in the family with a college degree (bachelors in physical education from Graceland College) brushes Kourtney (bachelors in theater arts from Arizona State). (Rob went on to graduate from USC.) He came from a rather working class background and went on through hard work and dedication to become a college athlete, college graduate, and Olympian. Then he's overshadowed by the stepdaughter who made a home porno and the rest of the entitled, spoiled family.