S06.E12: Face Off

[Freckledbruh]

Well yeah and that still makes me side-eye him about his decision to not work.  Child support is supposed to get reviewed periodically.  If you're that freaked out about what you're paying being raised at ALL, then maybe you should go get a job.  There's no excuse for him to choose to sit at home all day when he is an able-bodied young man with a child on the way.  Jo gets no passes from me.

At this point I think it's all made up for a storyline, but let's say it is is true. First, Jo said he would pay more. He just wanted some figures. So, whether he is scared to go to court or not, he definitely isn't against paying more so I don't know where you came up with that. Secondly, if he really did get that house, his BMW and has been regularly paying his child support with Mtv money, so what? Kail has done the same thing. She doesn't have a job either and has two houses and a fleet of cars. Child support is about the child and Isaac seems well taken care of to me. Then again, I think it is a hoax because two unemployed people talking about going to court for child support increases is ridiculous.

[lezlers]

My opinion is based on Jo's attitude towards Kail saying she wanted to go to court (his begging her not to on the verge of tears) and his statement that "how can I take care of my son if I can't take care of myself?"  

 

You might very well be right about this being made up for a storyline, tho, all things considered.

[Freckledbruh]

My opinion is based on Jo's attitude towards Kail saying she wanted to go to court (his begging her not to on the verge of tears) and his statement that "how can I take care of my son if I can't take care of myself?"  

 

You might very well be right about this being made up for a storyline, tho, all things considered.

I still don't see how you got that he doesn't want to pay ANY increase from that scene. In the context of that argument, Jo thinks that the court is going to have him pay multiple thousands of dollars per month (which is insane) so I don't see him on the verge of tears meaning he doesn't want to pay an increase. He is just scared of paying an increase that he has absolutely no money to pay.

Don't get me wrong. I think he needs to go to court and handle his business (if any of this mess is even true at this point) but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water and pretend that he is some dead beat dad when that is not the case.

[lezlers]

I still don't see how you got that he doesn't want to pay ANY increase from that scene. In the context of that argument, Jo thinks that the court is going to have him pay multiple thousands of dollars per month (which is insane) so I don't see him on the verge of tears meaning he doesn't want to pay an increase. He is just scared of paying an increase that he has absolutely no money to pay.

Don't get me wrong. I think he needs to go to court and handle his business (if any of this mess is even true at this point) but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water and pretend that he is some dead beat dad when that is not the case.

 

Oh, I don't think he's a deadbeat at all.  I think he's a great dad!  Next to Corey, the best of the bunch for sure.  I just think he's very immature and has a lot of growing up to do, but that's true for all of them. 

[Freckledbruh]

Oh, I don't think he's a deadbeat at all.  I think he's a great dad!  Next to Corey, the best of the bunch for sure.  I just think he's very immature and has a lot of growing up to do, but that's true for all of them. 

I definitely agree with this!  He needs to quit whining and go to court already.  Him moving to be closer makes no sense if he isn't willing to go to court.  Like I stated before, those school drop offs are allowed solely by Kail's kindness because it is outside of his visitation agreement.  If for whatever reason she decides that that is not working for her, is he going to be too afraid to go to court then?

[MissMel]

I think Jo is more or less self employed and his income is not regular. He and Kail probably agreed that he pays/helps out on top of his court order. He could make $20,000 one month and $1500 the next. Who knows? Whatever it is, Kail didn't have a problem with their arrangement before now. Even if PA wants to revisit the support order, it's not in their jurisdiction anymore. (This is where I agree this is just a storyline for the show)

I think he called her "an idiot" in relation to her, telling him, he needs to get a job. Sure, he could go work at Home Depot for 30 hours a week at minimum wage. They could go to court with that income, if she wants. His obligation would be minimal, he'd have time for Isaac, and an employee discount. Kail would be an idiot to ask for that. Then she acts like she's doing him a favor. Cool your jets, Kail. Careful what you wish for- you just might get it.

Not that any of this is fact. I'm just thinking out loud here.

[Freckledbruh]

 

He and Kail probably agreed that he pays/helps out on top of his court order.

If this is true then she really is stupid.  Money outside of the order is considered a gift and would not be calculated into any child support increase.  If the judge decided that she should get an increase but it is below what Jo was paying and he decides to not continue paying extra, her head would explode (after she choked out Javi of course).

[FozzyBear]

I think the issue is that Kali doesn't know how much Joe makes, or thinks she doesn't. She probably saw a figure 3 years ago when the set support through the court. I'm guessing (in Kali's mind) that income wasn't even close to being enough to save up for the house he bought. I think she wants Joe to tell her what his income is and he doesn't for whatever reason. Hence the stand off. Honestly, since I think the truth falls somewhere in the middle they should just go to court already. They will both likely walk away unhappy, the hallmark of a good compromise!

[Soobs]

This episode made me remember why I dislike Jo. He's a humorless, arrogant guy. He's an okay dad (great by this show's low standard) but he's still kind of a jerk and the type of guy that would pick someone like Kail. Either this custody/ child support story line is bs or he's working under the table and doesn't want to get found out. It's hard to say. I also don't like how he dicks around Vee. I mean, she lets him but it seems like their relationship is uneven.

 

Looks like Leah has turned all her problems onto Miranda instead of taking responsibility for herself. That must be extra frustrating for Miranda because not only does she have to help undo Leah's poor parenting but I can tell she's the type of person who takes her responsibilities very seriously. It probably really chaps her hide to see Leah shucking hers onto anyone nearby.

 

I seriously side eyed the last few minutes where they tried to happy ending this shit show. I guess it's all roses since we didn't end with another Janelle mug shot.

[MissMel]

Also, Jo is stupid because if he *looks* to be in arrears, on paper, and comes to court saying " but I paid extra for this, this, and that." The judge will tell him that is what a parent is supposed to do. Then ask him what he plans to do with what he owes. It won't matter if a huge check is coming in three weeks, the judge wants answers right then.

I think that might be why Jo is so nervous. He bit his tongue on TV. Kail is poking him. He's trying to wait for the next big check to cover all the expenses. Court could throw a big ole monkey wrench in that plan, though.

[Freckledbruh]

Also, Jo is stupid because if he *looks* to be in arrears, on paper, and comes to court saying " but I paid extra for this, this, and that." The judge will tell him that is what a parent is supposed to do. Then ask him what he plans to do with what he owes. It won't matter if a huge check is coming in three weeks, the judge wants answers right then.

I think that might be why Jo is so nervous. He bit his tongue on TV. Kail is poking him. He's trying to wait for the next big check to cover all the expenses. Court could throw a big ole monkey wrench in that plan, though.

Not actually, if he can prove that he would be coming into substantial income within 3 weeks, the court would be fine with it.  If he were in arrears and tried to say that he did pay "extra", then he would be laughed at because it makes no sense.  How can you be behind in payments but have been paying "extra"?  As for unreported income, if Kail could even prove that, she would be out of luck because then the IRS steps in and she gets less.  I'm seriously thinking this is a made up storyline.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Freckledbruh

[WhosThatGirl]

As far as graduations go, I don't remember having anything for preschool or kindergarten but my memory could be off on that. I do remember having one for 6th grade though because when I was in 6th grade we didn't have a middle school so we were going to another school and in 8th grade we got a dance instead of a graduation, probably because we would still be in the same school.Now I think since there is a middle school, they may have a graduation.  Also my graduation from high school. But I don't remember having anything from kindergarten, nor have I see any pictures alluding to some sort of graduation ceremony. I sort of laugh too. Only because for my town, pre-k and kindergarten were in the same school and the classes room for pre-k- 3rd grade were on all on the same floor so no real moving was involved. I mean, it is hilarious because really, we are just making achievements for everything at this point and I do agree a bit that it kind of takes away from when you are actually having a real graduation if everything is becoming a graduation!

[MissMel]

Not actually, if he can prove that he would be coming into substantial income within 3 weeks, the court would be fine with it.  If he were in arrears and tried to say that he did pay "extra", then he would be laughed at because it makes no sense.  How can you be behind in payments but have been paying "extra"?  As for unreported income, if Kail could even prove that, she would be out of luck because then the IRS steps in and she gets less.  I'm seriously thinking this is a made up storyline.

The "3 weeks" was just an example. You can substitute 6 months or even a year. I was just using that to get to my point. Not a factual time frame.

One can actually be in arrears and pay extra. If it does not go through the state depository, it is extra. It does not count towards arrears. My ex bought our sons plenty of things when he did not pay support for over a year and a half. There was one time the kids took my truck to visit him. One of the tires blew out just before his house. My son got the spare on and called me. I asked their dad to go get a new one for me, make a copy of the receipt, and meet me at the courthouse depository before work on Monday and the cost would be taken off his arrears. It was that quick and easy. (He had a big check coming, that's why he wasn't paying. I got the check.i think support comes out before taxes.)

I totally think this is a made storyline as well, though.

[sobasic]

I also don't like how he dicks around Vee. I mean, she lets him but it seems like their relationship is uneven.

Unfortunately when a childless woman dates or even marries a man with a kid, it's uneven by default. I know from experience. Not saying it shouldn't be, kids come first etc, but it's extremely uneven. Your life revolves around the needs of the child. This is why so many women - Vee included - immediately have kids in this situation. They are trying to even the playing field and become as important as the "first family".

I still can't believe that someone as young and attractive as Vee hooked up with this guy in the first place, much less got herself attached to his life. Jo has never struck me as a catch.

I always made it clear to my now ex that if his ex-wife ever moved and he wanted to follow her, I wasn't going. I don't revolve my life around the baby mama's decisions, not to that big of a scale anyway, following her around just because she chooses to move. If it was someone like Karl, oh hell no. That's not a good life. Vee surely had other options, not sure why she chose this one. Unless there's a lot of money somewhere we don't know about.

[TM2]

I still don't see how you got that he doesn't want to pay ANY increase from that scene. In the context of that argument, Jo thinks that the court is going to have him pay multiple thousands of dollars per month (which is insane) so I don't see him on the verge of tears meaning he doesn't want to pay an increase. He is just scared of paying an increase that he has absolutely no money to pay.

Don't get me wrong. I think he needs to go to court and handle his business (if any of this mess is even true at this point) but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water and pretend that he is some dead beat dad when that is not the case.

Well. Except he WAS on the verge of tears when he was at the park with them. That is why Kail started crying and decided to not let it go through court (in that moment anyway). For whatever reason he is scared shitless about going to court. He is also scared shitless that he won't have a dime left. I have no idea why. But you can check the episodes if you want to see despair. I actually felt sorry for him even though I have no idea why he is so afraid of the outcome. He seems very on edge. Not at all as how he has behaved before.

 

I have seen no one ever saying on here that Jo was a dead beat dad.

 

This is no fake storyline as far as I can tell. There is no way these people can act that good. Even if things of this childsupport thing are not the way they seem. There is no way that it is all made up. Not because they are above it but because they would suck at making it look real.

Edited September 27, 2015 by TM2

[Freckledbruh]

The "3 weeks" was just an example. You can substitute 6 months or even a year. I was just using that to get to my point. Not a factual time frame.

One can actually be in arrears and pay extra. If it does not go through the state depository, it is extra. It does not count towards arrears. My ex bought our sons plenty of things when he did not pay support for over a year and a half. There was one time the kids took my truck to visit him. One of the tires blew out just before his house. My son got the spare on and called me. I asked their dad to go get a new one for me, make a copy of the receipt, and meet me at the courthouse depository before work on Monday and the cost would be taken off his arrears. It was that quick and easy. (He had a big check coming, that's why he wasn't paying. I got the check.i think support comes out before taxes.)

I totally think this is a made storyline as well, though.

 

But that is the point.  He can't use paying "extra" as a defense if he is arrears because that "extra" is considered a gift and not child support.  If you are in arrears, it would behoove you to take the money you would spend on toys, clothes and "extra" and pay your child support.  The same goes for his school drop offs.  That is "extra" and if things change, Jo can't complain about it because it wasn't in the visitation order.

Well. Except he WAS on the verge of tears when he was at the park with them. That is why Kail started crying and decided to not let it go through court (in that moment anyway). For whatever reason he is scared shitless about going to court. He is also scared shitless that he won't have a dime left. I have no idea why. But you can check the episodes if you want to see despair. I actually felt sorry for him even though I have no idea why he is so afraid of the outcome. He seems very on edge. Not at all as how he has behaved before.

 

I have seen no one ever saying on here that Jo was a dead beat dad.

 

This is no fake storyline as far as I can tell. There is no way these people can act that good. Even if things of this childsupport thing are not the way they seem. There is no way that it is all made up. Not because they are above it but because they would suck at making it look real.

My post wasn't about whether or not he was on the verge of tears.  It was a response to a poster who stated that Jo didn't want to pay ANY increase in support which was untrue.  There is a big difference in paying an additional $2,400 per month and an additional $100 per month.  The former could put him to the verge of tears while the latter could be no big deal to him.  Painting a picture that Jo doesn't want to pay ANY extra looks (to me) like an attempt to slap the dead beat dad label on him but since me and that poster have already come to an agreement that that was not her/his position, I don't see why bringing that up is relevant.

[FozzyBear]

Unfortunately when a childless woman dates or even marries a man with a kid, it's uneven by default. I know from experience. Not saying it shouldn't be, kids come first etc, but it's extremely uneven. Your life revolves around the needs of the child. This is why so many women - Vee included - immediately have kids in this situation. They are trying to even the playing field and become as important as the "first family".

I still can't believe that someone as young and attractive as Vee hooked up with this guy in the first place, much less got herself attached to his life. Jo has never struck me as a catch.

I always made it clear to my now ex that if his ex-wife ever moved and he wanted to follow her, I wasn't going. I don't revolve my life around the baby mama's decisions, not to that big of a scale anyway, following her around just because she chooses to move. If it was someone like Karl, oh hell no. That's not a good life. Vee surely had other options, not sure why she chose this one. Unless there's a lot of money somewhere we don't know about.

1. I don't think Vee is a particularly bright girl.

2. When she met Joe she was some sort of aspiring model (I swear these kids and "modeling" careers. I do not think that word means what they think it means.) so maybe she initially thought it might jump start her career to be on the show. Maybe she still does.

3. I think, much like Kali, Vee has a healthy dose of "need to win" in her so at some point it probably became at least a little bit about not letting Kali drive her away. As I have said, she and Kali actually seem pretty similar. I think Joe has a type.

4. Put all of that together and you get this stellar plan that may FUBAR her life, but cements her place in Joe's world and in the next season of TM2.

[DangerousMinds]

In my state Vee would be entitled to full, free medical benefits for herself and the baby while she lived with Jo.  Jo's income would not be factored in and only be factored in if he was court ordered to pay child support for the new baby.  Once paternity was determined the State would go after Jo for child support even if Vee didn't initiate it.  Jo's monthly child support payments would be counted as monthly income for Vee and in order for Vee to continue to receive benefits she would be subject to a review every six months as to eligibility. 

 

In my state Vee would also be able to get food stamps and WIC (extra nutritional food products - dairy, peanut butter, juice, etc.) for herself and the baby.  Vee may live with Jo but the state is not going to be counting much in the way of Jo's income at this point.  In my state Vee would be able to admit she lived with Jo (and say that, i.e. - Jo pays the rent because she has no money). 

 

Vee would not be able to collect rental assistance because Jo lives with her.  She would have to live alone in order to receive that.  However, Vee would be able to say that Jo has asked her to pay some utilities in lieu of rent (i.e. - the heating bill during winter months and she could receive a large break on that monthly heating bill (Nov - April) while they cohabitated and she remains single.  Vee would also be able to collect food stamps in my state while residing with Jo as long as she says she and Jo do not share food, keep their food separate, cook separately, etc. like roommates do.

 

Of course once Vee admits that Jo is the father he will be court ordered to pay child support (initiated via the State if Vee doesn't request) and monthly benefits could go down for Vee a bit as long as she stays unemployed and doesn't work.  As long as Jo and Vee don't legally marry and Vee stays unemployed she will continue to receive most of her medical/dental, food, monthly heating bill benefits.  Jo may be required to cough up medical insurance for the baby but the baby will always have free insurance through the State (T-19) as its secondary, back-up insurance.  Whatever Jo's insurance didn't cover for the baby would be picked up by the T-19 insurance (State insurance).

 

Where I live plenty of women live with their baby daddies and the State knows it.  I have a few acquaintances that receive a plethora of free services via the State. As long as they don't get married ;)   Even with paternity confirmed.  The women don't even have to lie or scam.  They just have to make sure they keep up on their "reviews" every six months so benefits don't get interrupted.

I never had kids, in part because I never felt financially strong enough to support them myself. So glad my tax dollars could help support others' kids, who feel entitled to plan a family when they can't afford it. And I am an ultra-liberal.

[FozzyBear]

I never had kids, in part because I never felt financially strong enough to support them myself. So glad my tax dollars could help support others' kids, who feel entitled to plan a family when they can't afford it. And I am an ultra-liberal.

I talk as much smack on Vee as anyone here, but we don't actually know she's receiving any public assistance. If she is...EYE ROLL! Public Assistance is there for families in financial crisis and need. Not for MTV celebutant wanna-bes that are getting into baby having contests with Kali.

I too am ultra liberal so I'm just going to assume that Vee is NOT gaming the system until I have reason to think otherwise.

[Mkay]

I don't think that Jo was getting pissed that Kail wants child support.  Jo was getting upset that Kail wants MORE child support on top of the court ordered monthly child support that she is already receiving

Exactly!

I think that the house must have been purchased by his family or based off their credit and info. It's the only thing that makes sense why Jo doesn't want the court looking too deep into his financials. Maybe he has an agreement with his parents for them to buy the house, and once he gets on his feet, he pays the rent. Kail definitely knows or senses it, which is why she was okay doing outside of court at first. But unless she provides concrete numbers, Jo should not cave to her demands.    He probably also filed a restraining order to make him look better when he goes to court to file for custody of the Roll. Tip the scales in his balance to even out his Criminal DV charge that he got earlier.

The house is in his name.  So he definitely isn't renting it. They could have loaned him money, but that leaves him making house payments and payments to his family.

[HeySandyStrange]

1. I don't think Vee is a particularly bright girl.

2. When she met Joe she was some sort of aspiring model (I swear these kids and "modeling" careers. I do not think that word means what they think it means.) so maybe she initially thought it might jump start her career to be on the show. Maybe she still does.

3. I think, much like Kali, Vee has a healthy dose of "need to win" in her so at some point it probably became at least a little bit about not letting Kali drive her away. As I have said, she and Kali actually seem pretty similar. I think Joe has a type.

4. Put all of that together and you get this stellar plan that may FUBAR her life, but cements her place in Joe's world and in the next season of TM2.

I agree with most of this, only difference is I tend to think Jo&Kail are more alike then Kail&Vee are. Both seem to have the need to dominate and have tempers. Certainly Jo seems to have grown up more but he strikes me as being more of a traditionalist as far as gender roles. I think their similar personalities is why they could never work out, among many other reasons.

Conversely, I'd say Vee&Javi fulfill similar roles in their relationships with the other two. Both seem to be more passive, go with flow types. Luckily Jo isn't as angry Kail and seems to treat Vee much better then Kail does Javi, but I do think he wears the pants like Kail does. JMO, but I've found the similarities between the couples interesting, to say the least.

[BitterApple]

Unfortunately when a childless woman dates or even marries a man with a kid, it's uneven by default. I know from experience. Not saying it shouldn't be, kids come first etc, but it's extremely uneven. Your life revolves around the needs of the child. This is why so many women - Vee included - immediately have kids in this situation. They are trying to even the playing field and become as important as the "first family".

I agree with every word of your post. I always said Jo gave off the vibe that when it came to Vee, he could take her or leave her. When they were discussing the move and Vee was complaining that if they tried to do a long-distance relationship they'd inevitably break up, Jo really didn't seem too concerned. Ditto for Vee's Keeping Up With Kail baby, even though it was planned. I'm sure he'll love his daughter but he won't be moving to follow Vee around the way he did for Kail and Isaac. I have a feeling Vee is going to come out the loser in all of this.

Edited September 27, 2015 by BitterApple

[FozzyBear]

I agree with most of this, only difference is I tend to think Jo&Kail are more alike then Kail&Vee are. Both seem to have the need to dominate and have tempers. Certainly Jo seems to have grown up more but he strikes me as being more of a traditionalist as far as gender roles. I think their similar personalities is why they could never work out, among many other reasons.

Conversely, I'd say Vee&Javi fulfill similar roles in their relationships with the other two. Both seem to be more passive, go with flow types. Luckily Jo isn't as angry Kail and seems to treat Vee much better then Kail does Javi, but I do think he wears the pants like Kail does. JMO, but I've found the similarities between the couples interesting, to say the least.

Huh, you know that's a good point. Maybe I'm confusing similarities between the couples with similarities between Vee and Kali. A lot of the similarities I think of are based on social media (tacky tattoos, lots of random selfies, a tendency to use terms like "haters" and "disrespect"), but maybe it's more that the 4 of them are really similar people.

[langway]

Wrt the baby talk between Chelsea and Cole, I can't say shit because my boyfriend and I baby talk the shit out of each other. Not every conversation is like that, but sometimes it is nice to not have a care in the world about anything else but each other. Plus, some of the shit we say in the baby voice is fucking hilarious.

[cheatincheetos]

 

2. When she met Joe she was some sort of aspiring model (I swear these kids and "modeling" careers. I do not think that word means what they think it means.)

I blame Instagram!  :)

[SPLAIN]

Also, Jo is stupid because if he *looks* to be in arrears, on paper, and comes to court saying " but I paid extra for this, this, and that." The judge will tell him that is what a parent is supposed to do. Then ask him what he plans to do with what he owes. It won't matter if a huge check is coming in three weeks, the judge wants answers right then.

I think that might be why Jo is so nervous. He bit his tongue on TV. Kail is poking him. He's trying to wait for the next big check to cover all the expenses. Court could throw a big ole monkey wrench in that plan, though.

I am certain "arrears" was not the issue. If it was, Karl would have mentioned that long ago on Twitter and on camera. What Karl did say was, Jo's child support payments have not "made a dent" in Isaac's tuition. If he was in arrears, Karl and Javi would have both said so on camera. Karl did say if she avoided court and made an agreement on the side to extra money, what would happen IF Jo didn't make a payment.

[SPLAIN]

Well yeah and that still makes me side-eye him about his decision to not work.  Child support is supposed to get reviewed periodically.  If you're that freaked out about what you're paying being raised at ALL, then maybe you should go get a job.  There's no excuse for him to choose to sit at home all day when he is an able-bodied young man with a child on the way.  Jo gets no passes from me.

As someone else noted, it is possible he is in school. He might be in tech school or even waiting for summer to come to an end before starting a new job. He probably wanted to spend the summer with Isaac. Not having a job doesn't always mean not wanting to work.

[SPLAIN]

I never had kids, in part because I never felt financially strong enough to support them myself. So glad my tax dollars could help support others' kids, who feel entitled to plan a family when they can't afford it. And I am an ultra-liberal.

I watched this season and nothing, absolutely nothing was mentioned about Vee going on assistance or mentioning anything of the sort. Until I hear it come out of her mouth, it is absolutely false. There is plenty to rag on about Vee without us having to resort to lies.

[DangerousMinds]

I believe someone else mentioned it earlier. I am just going with the discussion and speculating.

[akr]

I noticed that the link from above, with Jo's lyrics, is from August 2011. I guess his twitter account still has the silly name (https://twitter.com/nerdin_acoolkid), but I give him a little bit of a pass on at least the photos in that article, given that he was quite a bit younger at the time (18?) and I'm assuming this was after Kail & before Vee. I'll save my criticism for what he's up to these days . . . . 

lyrics at http://starcasm.net/archives/115585

[heatherchandler]

Could it be that if they go to court, Jo will have to pay back some or all of the funds Kail owes back to the state from when she was on that family assistance program (section8)? Isn't that how it works? There is a payback process - of the mother needs money, they will look to the father- if he has it, they try to get it. Or, am I totally off base?

[Cosmocrush]

As a few posters noted, that scene was all kinds of crazy with the editing. For all we know, Isaac probably ate by that point when he was shown at the table. He likely went to the table to get his dad's attention or just to hang out at the table.  Vee and Jo likely stopped their original conversation as Isaac joined them to eat. Since it was throwaway footage (to MTV) they edited out that portion and that is likely where Jo and Vee began their conversation which ended up being dwindled down to a few minutes with chop-chop inserts of different things being said.

Oh, good point.  I bet you're exactly right.   At least I hope so.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[Scorpiosunshine]

Could it be that if they go to court, Jo will have to pay back some or all of the funds Kail owes back to the state from when she was on that family assistance program (section8)? Isn't that how it works? There is a payback process - of the mother needs money, they will look to the father- if he has it, they try to get it. Or, am I totally off base?

No, except in cases of fraud (pursued cases, that is ) there is no repayment of Section 8 or most any other assistance programs (I mean state and fed, not private), as "repayment" is considerd to be via the recipient paying taxes, since those programs are funded by tax dollars.

[Scorpiosunshine]

This is from Jo's website:

N.I.C.K. B aka Nerd In A Cool Kid's Body is part of the new generation of young MC's coming out of New Jeruz. Focusing on lyrics and content. N.I.C.K B is truly a student of the game. With influences from The Wu Tang Clan, Eminem, Nas and Jay Electronica......Jo takes on the altered ego [sic] named N.I.C.K. B (Nerd in a Cool Kids Body). “Rhyming is something I did before the show and I’ll continue to do as long as I live” N.I.C.K. B. Born in Newark, NJ, raised in Union, NJ, taught N.I.C.K B both strength and knowledge and gave him the platform that would later assist him with his choice of content and his name.

Among his song selections are "Life of a Teenage Father" (available on YouTube) and "Untaxed Income."

https://www.reverbnation.com/enterthemind

N.I.C.K. B, eh? Hahaha, I'd forgotten. Jo's too duck-faced for my taste , so I'm not really getting "cool kid" vibes, but I'm also not a kid, lol.

Listening to "Life of a Teenage Father" right now. I'm not a huge listener of rap, so can someone who is give me a review on this? It seems at least average, but I don't have much of a basis to judge on. I wonder if MCing is his new potential under the table money earner?

I listen to all kinds of music, rap from across many eras and styles included. I haven't listened in a while, but IIRC, my reaction when I first heard Jo rap was laughter and a big eyeroll. Could I have been colored by TM infamy? Certainly, it is possible, but I am pretty sure I could separate my feelings. In other words, I thought it was crap, lol.

I watched this season and nothing, absolutely nothing was mentioned about Vee going on assistance or mentioning anything of the sort. Until I hear it come out of her mouth, it is absolutely false. There is plenty to rag on about Vee without us having to resort to lies.

Just to be fair, no one lied on Vee. It was a purely speculative conversation --re: what Vee (and in effect, others in her situation) may be entitled to receive -- started upthread by someone other than the poster you quoted.

More on Jo:

I think he's getting a little too much credit --"maybe" he plans to do this or that when it comes to school, time with Isaac, as to why he isn't working, etc. He said NONE of those things when he had the chance. He said he "could" get a 9 to 5 "but" yadda yadda...then gave excuses why he doesn't want to, all while acting above it. He also didn't ask for and was specifically happy about not getting more time with Isaac. (Yes, I know he's now doing school drops, games, etc..that's not what I mean)

Just like with Kail and the pic text, wouldn't mentioning things during an important convo about those things make sense? Jo made it clear that he doesn't want to work, then gave a ridiculous excuse which made no sense. As much as I loathe Kail these days, I just cannot strain credulity to defend Jo. He's not a saint just because Kail is a sinner. If he had plans for school or getting a job, he sure made no mention of any of those plans. I go by what these people say, and he didn't "defend" his unemployment with any summer visit/school/job is coming excuses.

To me, he seemed defensive and embarrassed. There is zero shame in temporary unemployment , but when it comes to supporting kids, IMO, there is shame in not wanting to work. Even though he is paying support now, maybe he's afraid an increase will mean getting a job, which he doesn't want to do. It could be that simple.

He and Vee were stupid to have a baby with no flexible financial plan in place. Jo should know child support could go up, because the cost of living goes up , and it's as much his responsibility as it is Kail's , even if she does make more. I just don't think he deserves a pass ( that no other father gets) simply because Kail sucks.

The best thing to do is to do what most people do, and the right thing to do --let the courts handle it. If Kail gets less, so be it. Jo will come out better . I won't wish it on her , though, because that money is for Isaac. As much as Kail deserves scorn, I believe she uses CS for Isaac.

**Edited because of typos and grammar; the keyboard on my frequently-dropped iPad has a mind all its own, misses letters, can't keep up with my typing, etc. If you see a glaring mistake in a post I've written, my apologies. I probably missed a few!

Edited September 28, 2015 by Scorpiosunshine

[Scorpiosunshine]

I blame Instagram!  :)

Agreed!

While, IMO, Vee may be prettier and less chinful than Kail*, she is not even close to model material....not even video vixen material. On another shallow note: I searched for pics and some of her pregnancy photos came up; I have to say that it suited her --her filled-out face glowed with health and hormones. She looked so pretty!

* I think Kail can be quite pretty at times, but sometimes her attitude is so stank she looks hideous, unflattering scarves aside. *

[TM2]

But that is the point.  He can't use paying "extra" as a defense if he is arrears because that "extra" is considered a gift and not child support.  If you are in arrears, it would behoove you to take the money you would spend on toys, clothes and "extra" and pay your child support.  The same goes for his school drop offs.  That is "extra" and if things change, Jo can't complain about it because it wasn't in the visitation order.

My post wasn't about whether or not he was on the verge of tears.  It was a response to a poster who stated that Jo didn't want to pay ANY increase in support which was untrue.  There is a big difference in paying an additional $2,400 per month and an additional $100 per month.  The former could put him to the verge of tears while the latter could be no big deal to him.  Painting a picture that Jo doesn't want to pay ANY extra looks (to me) like an attempt to slap the dead beat dad label on him but since me and that poster have already come to an agreement that that was not her/his position, I don't see why bringing that up is relevant.

Yeah but I see some claiming here that he shouldn't pay anything more anyway since Kail has enough money so if Jo is willing to pay extra then he must be aware that he is not paying enough. I know that it is the amount that is scaring him shitless but no normal person would think he would have to pay that much unless they know something we don't.

It is relevant because questioning something (Jo in this case) does not equal suggesting he is a dead beat dad. This is a open forum and I've read a lot of posts and responded to yours and I wanted to say there is no post here suggesting he is a dead beat dad and I have never seen it be anyone's position in any discussion. It is relevant since it is incorrect.

Edited September 28, 2015 by TM2

[Tatum]

Bwah! All I can think of is Kelly Bundy telling her brother Bud aka Grandmaster B, "Oh please forgive me Ghostbuster B!"

Or, hey Grandma B! Someone is on the phone for you!

[beesknees]

I watched this season and nothing, absolutely nothing was mentioned about Vee going on assistance or mentioning anything of the sort. Until I hear it come out of her mouth, it is absolutely false. There is plenty to rag on about Vee without us having to resort to lies.

Yeah, I may have started this Vee misunderstanding but I never implied Vee was receiving assistance of any kind.  Another poster mentioneed that Jo's income would be factored in if Vee would ever decide to apply for state assistance (even though they are unmarried at present) .  I didn't agree with that posters opinion and I countered that statement with examples of what single women (who reside in my state and live with their baby daddies) are offered in the way of public assistance.

 

I'm not saying Vee is contemplating taking any handouts from the state of DE.  I don't think anyone was.  We were all just batting hypotheticals around.

 

Switching things up a bit, just because Kail wants a child support increase doesn't mean she's going to get it.  When calculating child support the formula is loosely based upon 17% of the person's annual income x the number of overnights the child spends at that person's house during the calendar year.  Jo's yearly income would have to jump a significant amount before the court will issue a CS increase.  I know in my personal case my ex would have to make an additional $100 per week income-wise in order for me to petition for a CS increase or they won't consider it.

Edited September 28, 2015 by beesknees

[Freckledbruh]

Yeah but I see some claiming here that he shouldn't pay anything more anyway since Kail has enough money so if Jo is willing to pay extra then he must be aware that he is not paying enough. I know that it is the amount that is scaring him shitless but no normal person would think he would have to pay that much unless they know something we don't.

It is relevant because questioning something (Jo in this case) does not equal suggesting he is a dead beat dad. This is a open forum and I've read a lot of posts and responded to yours and I wanted to say there is no post here suggesting he is a dead beat dad and I have never seen it be anyone's position in any discussion. It is relevant since it is incorrect.

First off, him willing to pay more doesn't mean that he isn't paying "enough". Kali may think so but until a court states that there needs to be an increase, then what he is paying now is "enough". If the shoe was on the other foot, I would say the same. The person receiving child support never thinks it is "enough".

Secondly, I didn't see the point of bringing up the dead beat dad thing because that was discussed and finished by me and another poster, but since you want to bring it back up, I will say that you saying he isn't paying "enough" then, yes, you are trying to act like he is a dead beat in some way.

Either way, since neither have gone to court, the point of whether it is "enough" is moot.

[radishcake]

I moved the Jo is a rapper convo over to the Social Media thread since it's not episode specific.

[lezlers]

As someone else noted, it is possible he is in school. He might be in tech school or even waiting for summer to come to an end before starting a new job. He probably wanted to spend the summer with Isaac. Not having a job doesn't always mean not wanting to work.

Why is it that we give Jo the benefit of the doubt absent any evidence whatsoever to support our claims, yet we don't give that same benefit to anyone else?  Everyone keeps saying "if Jo was in arrears, they would've said so!!" (which I agree with) but if he were in school, don't you think he would've mentioned that when Kail was harassing him about a job?  He said it's because he wanted to spend time with Issac.  Yet, when he was at Kail's house and they were talking about sharing Issac they both agreed they weren't going to do the 6 week thing.  So why are we assuming the opposite is true of what was actually said?  I get Kail hate, but come on.

No, except in cases of fraud (pursued cases, that is ) there is no repayment of Section 8 or most any other assistance programs (I mean state and fed, not private), as "repayment" is considerd to be via the recipient paying taxes, since those programs are funded by tax dollars.

???  I have a small gig in child support contempt court and many of my clients are paying arrears from when their partners were on aid.  The difference is that the mother can forgive back support if she wasn't on aid but if she was, she can't forgive any back support, as it's paid back to the state.   That's only if there's arrears, tho.

I watched this season and nothing, absolutely nothing was mentioned about Vee going on assistance or mentioning anything of the sort. Until I hear it come out of her mouth, it is absolutely false. There is plenty to rag on about Vee without us having to resort to lies.

 

I was the one who originally speculated on it.  It was just that, speculation.  The same kind of speculation people use to assume nefarious motives from Kail and helpless/angelic ones from Jo.  If we can do it for some of them, why not others?  We know Vee isn't working (and is coming from a minimum wage daycare job, so it's unlikely she has anything saved up) and is sitting at a table crying over potentially not being able to support the baby she chose to bring in the world.  They're not married.  Neither of them are working.  Doesn't seem too far of a stretch to me.

Edited September 28, 2015 by lezlers

[lezlers]

N.I.C.K. B, eh? Hahaha, I'd forgotten. Jo's too duck-faced for my taste , so I'm not really getting "cool kid" vibes, but I'm also not a kid, lol.

I listen to all kinds of music, rap from across many eras and styles included. I haven't listened in a while, but IIRC, my reaction when I first heard Jo rap was laughter and a big eyeroll. Could I have been colored by TM infamy? Certainly, it is possible, but I am pretty sure I could separate my feelings. In other words, I thought it was crap, lol.

More on Jo:

I think he's getting a little too much credit --"maybe" he plans to do this or that when it comes to school, time with Isaac, as to why he isn't working, etc. He said NONE of those things when he had the chance. He said he "could" get a 9 to 5 "but" yadda yadda...then gave excuses why he doesn't want to, all while acting above it. He also didn't ask for and was specifically happy about not getting more time with Isaac. (Yes, I know he's now doing school drops, games, etc..that's not what I mean)

Just like with Kail and the pic text, wouldn't mentioning things during an important convo about those things make sense? Jo made it clear that he doesn't want to work, then gave a ridiculous excuse which made no sense. As much as I loathe Kail these days, I just cannot strain credulity to defend Jo. He's not a saint just because Kail is a sinner. If he had plans for school or getting a job, he sure made no mention of any of those plans. I go by what these people say, and he didn't "defend" his unemployment with any summer visit/school/job is coming excuses.

To me, he seemed defensive and embarrassed. There is zero shame in temporary unemployment , but when it comes to supporting kids, IMO, there is shame in not wanting to work. Even though he is paying support now, maybe he's afraid an increase will mean getting a job, which he doesn't want to do. It could be that simple.

He and Vee were stupid to have a baby with no flexible financial plan in place. Jo should know child support could go up, because the cost of living goes up , and it's as much his responsibility as it is Kail's , even if she does make more. I just don't think he deserves a pass ( that no other father gets) simply because Kail sucks.

 

 

OMG THIS.  SO MUCH THIS!!!!   This is exactly how I feel about it.  You can hate Kail without making excuses for Jo.  

[DangerousMinds]

Why is it that we give Jo the benefit of the doubt absent any evidence whatsoever to support our claims, yet we don't give that same benefit to anyone else?  Everyone keeps saying "if Jo was in arrears, they would've said so!!" (which I agree with) but if he were in school, don't you think he would've mentioned that when Kail was harassing him about a job?  He said it's because he wanted to spend time with Issac.  Yet, when he was at Kail's house and they were talking about sharing Issac they both agreed they weren't going to do the 6 week thing.  So why are we assuming the opposite is true of what was actually said?  I get Kail hate, but come on.

???  I have a small gig in child support contempt court and many of my clients are paying arrears from when their partners were on aid.  The difference is that the mother can forgive back support if she wasn't on aid but if she was, she can't forgive any back support, as it's paid back to the state.   That's only if there's arrears, tho.

 

I was the one who originally speculated on it.  It was just that, speculation.  The same kind of speculation people use to assume nefarious motives from Kail and helpless/angelic ones from Jo.  If we can do it for some of them, why not others?  We know Vee isn't working (and is coming from a minimum wage daycare job, so it's unlikely she has anything saved up) and is sitting at a table crying over potentially not being able to support the baby she chose to bring in the world.  They're not married.  Neither of them are working.  Doesn't seem too far of a stretch to me.

Thank you! You said it all much better than I could. Not sure why speculation about Jo/Vee is not OK, but speculation about Kail, Leah, Jenelle, etc is fine and dandy.

[Adiba]

OMG THIS.  SO MUCH THIS!!!!   This is exactly how I feel about it.  You can hate Kail without making excuses for Jo.

I think some posters are trying to make sense out of this situation as well because not enough info is known. Jo moved down to DE, bought a house, yet has no job(?) and is scared to go to court to have his CS reviewed. He doesn't want the custody arrangements changed formally, yet he doesn't want to get a job ---so that he can spend time with Isaac during the summer.

I do agree that Jo should just go to court and deal with whatever the outcome is. If he is really concerned about an increase, he can request the custody arrangement to include more overnights with Isaac. He lives close enough now that he can take Isaac to school during the week, and school time would be counted as neutral time ( time that is not credited to either parent.)

[BitterApple]

For me what was so odd about the unemployment convo was how Jo didn't refute anything Kail was saying. He didn't say he had applications in, or was about to start school or would look for work after his six weeks with Isaac or was looking to start a business. He just said he "could" work a 9 to 5, but had no plans to and that was it. It's not like you're going to get hired on the spot anyways, it takes time, so there's really no reason for him to be doing nothing about employment. Even Vee never came out and said he had a job on one of her numerous social media rants. So I think MTV money is his only income, unless his parents are slipping him cash on the side.

[charmed1]

taking to the social media thread.

Edited September 28, 2015 by charmed1

[Chicken Wing]

The whole Kail/Jo/employment situation is so peculiar, and I suspect it has more to do with them deliberately not discussing things on camera than any real foolishness going on. It just doesn't make sense. So Jo is in fact not working - at least, not working a regular job. After all, he didn't say he didn't have income; he just alluded to not having a 9-to-5 job. So he must have money coming in from somewhere, otherwise (a) Kail wouldn't be thinking he could pay her more; (b) he couldn't have bought a house unless he bought it cash somehow; © he basically couldn't do anyting, because life = money. I still don't get why he's so terrified to go to court, or why he thinks he would be ordered to pay some exhorbitant amount. If his finances are so modest, why would he be asked to pay thousands a month? Which makes me think he maybe does have a lot of money coming in from some other projects or ventures, just not a typical "job" job. But then I wonder why he's so afraid he'll end up in the gutter if he gets asked to pay a big amount, if his finances support that order. Argh. I also don't get - at all - his argument about not getting a 9-to-5 job. Because that's his time to spend with Isaac and he couldn't do that if he went out and got a job job? That's ... pretty stupid. He does know that parents spend time with their kids and work full-time, yes? And how would a Monday-Friday 9-5 job impact his time with Isaac? He only has him on the weekends. He might as well argue that Isaac shouldn't go to school during the day because that's time he could be spending with his parents. But really, get a job, man. You can't sit there moaning and crying about how you can't pay for things - things that are your responsibility, one way or another - and refuse to make any effort to try to get the money to pay for it, since whatever and wherever he's getting money from is apparently not good enough to support the imaginary payments he thinks he'll be asked to fork over. Which brings us back to the court issue. If they go to court, the mediators and the judge will come up with a figure based on Isaac's actual needs, the two households' combined standard of living and Kail's and Jo's financials. Why does he think the judge will order him to pay a figure that he literally doesn't have? Why would he rather have Kail itemize everything for him? I mean, I hate to side with Kail and Javi about anything, but they have never been not right about this: Go to court and let the legal folks figure it out objectively so everything is fair and precise and there's none of this back and forth and arguing and hurt feelings. It's a hell of a lot easier than dealing with HER. I don't get what's going on with him.

 

 

 

 

Or, hey Grandma B! Someone is on the phone for you!

Oh really? Is it Bedwetter B calling? Ha ha.

 

I thought it was Court Jester B!

Edited September 28, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[radishcake]

FYI: Speculating about stuff not on the show is totally fine, trying to find out why people think x or y is also fine, responding when someone asks about who posted what or why (within reason) is also fine. When a show is like this, with so many producer shenanigans it's totally valid to question or speculate on what you are and aren't being presented with. As long as you are speaking to others respectfully and not calling each other liars or rude names, it's fine. 

Just wanted to give you guys a heads up so you know where you stand. 

[GreatKazu]

 

.

Either way, since neither have gone to court, the point of whether it is "enough" is moot.

Exactly. I have mentioned this myself. Until these two go to court, I will assume Kail is fine with how things are and they remain the same or she has accepted Jo's offer of giving her extra money without having to go to court.

 

I think some posters are trying to make sense out of this situation as well because not enough info is known. Jo moved down to DE, bought a house, yet has no job(?) and is scared to go to court to have his CS reviewed. He doesn't want the custody arrangements changed formally, yet he doesn't want to get a job ---so that he can spend time with Isaac during the summer.

I do agree that Jo should just go to court and deal with whatever the outcome is. If he is really concerned about an increase, he can request the custody arrangement to include more overnights with Isaac. He lives close enough now that he can take Isaac to school during the week, and school time would be counted as neutral time ( time that is not credited to either parent.)

Exactly. It is not excuses, it is trying to figure out what the hell happened because MTV did one hell of an edit job this season. It is not just Jo and Kail, it also happened with Leah and Jermy. At least with the Leah and Jermy topic, we have social media posts and articles to at least reference and help us make sense of what really went down with Leah and Jermy, and even Cory with the whole court matter and why he couldn't use MTV footage to back up his claims. Leah would love to have the viewers believe Jermy left her because she is unkempt and can't stand her whiny ways. We know that is not the case. Leah and MTV has done everything they can to downplay her drug addiction.

 

It would have been a lot better if MTV had just presented this season the way they put the Teen Mom OG season out . MTV had no problem with showing Farrah and mentioning her porn film and having the Maci storyline focus on whether Farrah is worthy of being on the show and if Maci will remove herself from the show because her moral compass directs her to not be on the same show as someone who did a porn tape. What was presented instead, was Leah being protected and able to throw out lie after lie about what is really going on in her life with chop-chop editing thrown in left and right for all the story lines. Wondering why this or that wasn't said or refuted could be chalked up to the bad editing, too. There may have been scenes that were edited out. Conversations edited down to a few minutes. I fully believe that park scene with Javi, Kail, and Jo lasted a lot longer than what we were shown. Jo went from one emotion to another in such a short amount of time. Even Kail seemed to be on the verge of tears. Surely there was a lot more going on there than we were shown. We could have likely heard Jo give Kail a run-down of what he has planned for the upcoming summer and his future. It would certainly back up what Javi said later on to Kail about how she shouldn't believe what Jo told her. WHAT DID HE TELL HER?? I don't know because MTV is all kinds of fucked up with their editing. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by GreatKazu

[Snarky McSnarky]

Since Jo actually wrote a song called "Untaxed Income," it is safe to assume he is being paid under the table for whatever it is that he is doing.  He knows that going back to court will mean signing documents stating he earns "X" amount of money, which could come back and bite him in the ass if he has filed tax returns that did not disclose all of his income.  Or, if he understates his income to the court, Kail will call him on it.  So he wants to stay as far away as possible from a court of law.

 

Kail is undoubtedly aware of his tax-free income, as he was probably doing the same when they were together.  So their conversations in front of the camera are awkward because neither of them wants to say the truth.