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S05.E01: Heavy Is The Head

thewhiteowl

By thewhiteowl
in Scandal [V]

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FozzyBear

FozzyBear

Olivia had no case! None! A bunch of suspicions, but nothing close to what would be needed to challenge diplomatic immunity. And she was wrong! Idiot. You and Fitz deserve eachother.

I'm still confused about the list. Mellie seemed shocked by what happened and Liz (who actually got the list) hadn't even put it together until Mellie told her. What was the list? Was it a list of jury names or a travel schedule or the van number or what? If it was a list of names it would have to be "get me this grand jury" and what was Mellie expecting to happen? And how would Liz even get it? I know this is Scandal where people are supposed to be all powerful, but how on earth would Liz get a grand jury list without it leading back to her? I'm so confused. Am I supposed to just pretend this all makes sense?

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Guest

Guest

Olivia had no case! None! A bunch of suspicions, but nothing close to what would be needed to challenge diplomatic immunity. And she was wrong! Idiot. You and Fitz deserve eachother.

I'm still confused about the list. Mellie seemed shocked by what happened and Liz (who actually got the list) hadn't even put it together until Mellie told her. What was the list? Was it a list of jury names or a travel schedule or the van number or what? If it was a list of names it would have to be "get me this grand jury" and what was Mellie expecting to happen? And how would Liz even get it? I know this is Scandal where people are supposed to be all powerful, but how on earth would Liz get a grand jury list without it leading back to her? I'm so confused. Am I supposed to just pretend this all makes sense?

You and your logic have no place in the Shonda-universe. Once you start trying to make sense of any of it, the illusion disappears.

WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

(edited)

I think it was a list of the jury. How did Liz get it? Who the hell knows. I believe Papa Pope said, "I need a list of names" so..And I know Mellie is guilty for agreeing to go along with it and get this list, but she didn't even know who Papa Pope was and what he needed the list for. I doubt very much he went into detail what he was going to do with it. So, yeah. And from my memory, yes Mellie saved herself with this but she also saved Fitz too, right? Fitz is not innocent in anyway and I hate this show for trying to paint him as a good guy. He is not a good guy at all. I don't care that apparently he and Olivia are meant to be as far as this show is concerned, he is no prize to be won here. 

 

What makes me laugh a lot about this show is that the magazine EW did a cover story on all of Shondalands shows, Greys, HTGAWM, and this one and on Greys(spoiler alert for last season btw ;)) Derek died and fans were all, "but this show is about Meredith and Derek!" or something and apparently that made Ellen the lead character upset because she didn't understand how the two characters on Scandal and HTGAWM could be strong lead female characters without a man and not her character. Now I don't watch HTGAWM so I know nothing, but has Olivia been alone ever? I mean, I know there was that time last season sort of but she was still hooking up with that random guy who turned out to be part of her Dad's team to takedown Jake and company but I mean, I feel like she has never been independent. I don't really remember the first season so maybe there was a blip there. But to me, she's always been caught up with Jake or on the side waiting for Fitz. Anyway, this long paragraph just boiling down to personally, I would like to see her go it alone. Like not even doing the random hook up thing. Just being alone. I however very much doubt that will happen.

Edited by WhosThatGirl
FozzyBear

FozzyBear

Ok I know the list is just a McGuffin to get Fitz, Olivia, and my gag reflex back together, but why ask Mellie for it? How is it easier for her to get a grand jury list than Command? As I said, these list are really hard to get for very good reasons. There is no reason for a First Lady or her staff to have one so its not like she could just ask without sounding alarms. How is this easier for her? Or is that the point and Papa Pope will use this against her later? I'm expecting too much logic, aren't I?

WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

Ok I know the list is just a McGuffin to get Fitz, Olivia, and my gag reflex back together, but why ask Mellie for it? How is it easier for her to get a grand jury list than Command? As I said, these list are really hard to get for very good reasons. There is no reason for a First Lady or her staff to have one so its not like she could just ask without sounding alarms. How is this easier for her? Or is that the point and Papa Pope will use this against her later? I'm expecting too much logic, aren't I?

You are. Because reality doesn't make sense. Logic doesn't add up because it was a plot contrivance that Mellie feeling desperate to get a senate seat would somehow be able to get her hands on lists on random trials she knows nothing about. Eh. Yeah. Logic will only hurt your head. 

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bobbyjoe

bobbyjoe

But mostly, can't you think of your own plot lines, Scandal, instead of rehashing a story from years ago with a "twist" that most could see coming from a mile away?

 

Seriously.  This storyline was like a "ripped from the headlines" Law and Order episode... from 1998.  What's next, variations on Monica Lewinsky, Tonya Harding, and OJ?

 

Is there really anyone who wants either a "Huck redemption" story or a "Huck seems like he's redeemed but has to go back to killing" story?  The character is over.  Like: over, over, over, over.  I actually like the actor, but this is a one-note character who's painted into a corner no amount of writing is ever going to get him out of.  Would anyone have cared if Quinn had said "oh, by the way, Olivia, I killed Huck and threw his body into the Potomac.  Anyway, about that dead princess..." and then we never see Huck again.  At this point, I don't think it would make a difference to the show or  even this week's episode, other than a lot of fans going "whew, glad that's over with" like they've done with the apparent ditching of B613.

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Donny Ketchum

Donny Ketchum

Maybe they'll chemistry test her with Marcus from last season.

Or maybe Cornelius Smith, Jr.'s character.  He was added to the main character roster.  I saw his name under the "starring" actors' list.

 

Sally may have her fair share of sins including murder, but at the show isn't trying to sell her as a tragic hero, ala Fitz, who's done just as bad and/or worse than Sally.

What?!  Sally's killed, too?!  When?!  Whom?!

PrincessTT

PrincessTT

Doesn't America already know Olivia is Fitz's mistress? Isn't that why she ran away to the island with Jake?  

 

Fitz leaked Liv being his mistress (via Tom) at the end of season 2... Season 3 started with us "meeting" Liv's dad and him trying to get her to go to the island to get away from the stories & rumours. 

 

She refused and they found a way to convince people that the mistress was actually someone else who worked at the White House (Jeanine,  I think her name was) and she was willing to say it was her as she got lots of book & TV offers out of it. 

 

Then we had a season of Liv's mum and dad running wild, which culminated in Fitz and Mellie's son being killed. 

 

Liv then ran away to the island at the end of season 3 as she felt that everything that happened was linked to her and so she was bad for everyone. 

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Vallegal24

Vallegal24

I think whoever outed "Olitz" will be a new character coming in this season. Perhaps a new power player.I can't see Abby betraying Olivia and Liz will not be stupid enough to do that to her new employer.Cyrus and Mellie are looking for a way back in Fitz's good graces so I don't think it's them.There's one possible guy though. He-Whose-Organization-Shall-Not-Be-Named who is currently rotting in jail.If it turns out to be him, GAHHH!

...I'm convinced that Fitz leaked the photos. Who stands to gain the most out of having this affair out in the open? Fitz. First, he serves Mellie with divorce papers, and tells her he has nothing to lose. Then he argues Liv down about why they should be together, as she babbled on about staying in secrecy, and blah, blah, blah. You'd think after 5+ years of being a mistress Olivia would be eager to live openly with this man who has left his wife (several times now it seems) and even sent the country to war for her, and yet his acts of declaration never seem to be enough for this woman. So yep, Fitz leaked the pics and per usual is leaping before looking and living in fantasy land. He does not give a damn when it comes to Olivia, as he wants to be with her, and will stop at nothing to have what he wants, damn the consequences.

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Mama No Life

Mama No Life

I wondered if FItz leaked them as well.  I hope not, because that would be just another break-up and I am so tired of that.    You'd think he'd know her well enough by now.

 

I have no problem with him divorcing Mellie and don't agree he should have consulted Liv.  He needs to end that marriage whether he and Liv are together or not.  He does, however, owe it to her to consult her before he outs them.  So I'm really hoping he didn't. 

 

I don't think Liv was concerned b/c she doesn't want to be with him.  I think she's worried about the spectacle issue, as you could tell when she was having the potty talk with Abby and Emily.

 

I honestly cannot, will not, do another break-up then back together arc.  I walked away from Grey's with no problem, and I'll do it here too.  There is so much to mine from their being together that the on-off thing is just lazy, bored, stupid writing.

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dungeonwriter

dungeonwriter

Okay, so we're back and back on the merry-go-round of "Fitz wants out of his toxic marriage and wants Liv, Liv doesn't know what to do, Mellie schemes" How many times have we done this before? Honestly, it's exhausting for me, and I can't imagine how horrible it is for Karen and Teddy. I know we are supposed to remember they are safely in Plot box day care, but....I can't. 

 

A major plot pothole is that Mellie may be the Wicked Witch of the West Wing in Fitz's eyes, but she's also the mother of his children. His mental abuse of her is horrifying. "I despise you"  "Mutually assured destruction." Seriously, I know that it would kill the plot but how hard would it have been for him to paint it as:  

 

"The stress of losing our son tore our marriage apart. After the Presidency, we both wanted different things. Mellie wants to keep her excellent work in public service, and I know she'll be great. As for me, the public life is something I look forward to retiring from. We still care about each other, but the paths we both want to deal with our pain diverge. We decided to divorce and try to rebuild our lives separately, but with friendship and affection. I know Mellie will do great thing and I'll always be her biggest fan. For me, she will always be my first love, my partner, my friend, my confident, the mother of my children and my co-parent."

 

Everyone wins.

 

I did see Shonda's brilliance shine on Princess Emily's words on being a spectacle. I saw Liv seeing the connection, and it was a neat bit of acting. And the dresses at the event were pretty, especially the "diamonds on her head." 

 

I did like the royal subplot, even if it was a bit too Princess Diana for me. (Come on, they couldn't have chosen a bit more different?) and I did find the "Wicked Queen"  line weak. I just didn't get how I should feel about Princess Emily? She was a cheater who had a husband who madly adored her, and was sleeping with another man, pregnant by him? I thought it would have been a twist that the baby was Richard's and the Queen had killed her own grandchild, but instead, Crown Prince sacrifices his dignity for his bride and banishes his mother for a woman who clearly didn't even treat him right. 

 

And how is Fitz going to deal with losing his base? Liv could have gotten that from a grateful Prince but Fitz gets foiled by her as well. 

 

The Huck dialogue was horrid. "Hurt me on the inside." My 6 year old niece is above that. 

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KaveDweller

KaveDweller

You are. Because reality doesn't make sense. Logic doesn't add up because it was a plot contrivance that Mellie feeling desperate to get a senate seat would somehow be able to get her hands on lists on random trials she knows nothing about. Eh. Yeah. Logic will only hurt your head. 

 

Why did he even need the list anyway? The jurors were all killed on a van outside of court, right? So all he needed was to know when the van would be leaving.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Fitz leaked the photos, he leaked her name as his mistress a couple seasons ago, so why not now?

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

I do kind of love that we are trying to analyze the major plot point that happened in the last season finale. Probably more than the people who wrote it did, that's for sure. I think the writers sadly were only thinking about "well, plot x has to happen: Fitz and Liv need to be together at the end of this season and the beginning of season 5, so plot a just has to be the reason for it, no care if plots b,c,d,e,f and so on match up, plot a will set it in motion". Like, really show.

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Happytobehere

Happytobehere

My money is on Abby and Lizzy. Did you see the look on Abby's face when she walked in on Olivia an Fitz? She wasn't happy. Abby had been told in no uncertain terms that Fitz would not be attending Mellie's thing but then Olvia basically snuck into the White House and convinced him to and no one told her.,,,or his chief of staff. Yeah I'd be a little stabby. Weren't Olivia and Abby friends once? Bros before hos ladies.

Since we are talking about females, should the saying be "chicks before dicks," or something like that.

And she'd probably get knocked up by the bodyguard (Jake) too.

This would cause Fitz's head to explode, so I say let happen ASAP.

Add me to the hating Olivia with Putz camp. I'm not crazy about Jake but I'm Team Jake all the way if it means an end to Olitz.

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Oblique Angle

Oblique Angle

I forgot I had decided to stop watching this show after the season four finale. Sigh...Scandal, I wish I knew how to quit you.

 

That was one reason I thought this was tasteless.

I agree. Plus Diana's boyfriend was Muslim so there was possibly an extra layer of bigotry and politics involved.

 

There's no way those dead princess photos would stay off the internet, but OK.

Yep, someone on the scene would have immediately used their phone to send photos and video off to TMZ, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, etc. Some of those sites might have taken the stuff down but the images would have already been copied onto other sites and stashed into cloud drives. No way would Olivia have been able to contain all that.

 

That ruined Burberry trench tho...

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Dejana

Dejana

(edited)

Fitz leaked Liv being his mistress (via Tom) at the end of season 2... Season 3 started with us "meeting" Liv's dad and him trying to get her to go to the island to get away from the stories & rumours. 

 

She refused and they found a way to convince people that the mistress was actually someone else who worked at the White House (Jeanine,  I think her name was) and she was willing to say it was her as she got lots of book & TV offers out of it. 

 

I never understood how that worked (other than the writers wanting it to), and why people didn't just assume Fitz had more than one mistress, especially since it wasn't the first time an alleged other woman had been publicly named. Bill Clinton seems to exist in this universe (Olivia told Amanda Tanner she'd be another Monica Lewinsky) and the antics of JFK and LBJ make Clinton look like a Boy Scout in comparison.

 

It's hard to see Amal...I mean, Emily, leaving behind her glittering human rights lawyer career for a relationship that seems to have fallen apart fairly quickly as far as royal marriages go, well before they'd brought the heir into the world, let alone the spare. William went out with Kate for years and years before proposing because, he says, he wanted her to be sure she was willing to take on royal life, and that's with a couple from the same country, who attended the same sorts of schools. I guess people stay in unhappy marriages all the time, even if they have options, while putting on a brave public face. Even the main characters suffer from inconsistent writing so you can't expect more from the guest stars in the case of the week.

 

Fitz's tirades about Mellie are part of the show's Hillary & Jackie problem, in that the writers have wanted Mellie to be Hillary Clinton and Jacqueline Kennedy in the same person, when the two women couldn't be any less similar. The Jackie side of Mellie seems to get on Fitz's nerves, so when he's angry, he reduces her to being decorative and ceremonial and not bringing anything substantial to the table (not that I think the real Jackie was decorative and insubstantial, but she did not live and breathe politics by any stretch). However, since the writers have also made Mellie a Hillary type at times, it stretches incredulity when Fitz regards Mellie as some sort of overgrown debutante without her own accomplishments. Even if she all had done for him is dutfully smile and wave, it's done a good deal for his image and popularity in office. Also, he only got elected president the first time because of rigged polling machines, so he really shouldn't talk about someone else not earning it. 

 

I do kind of love that we are trying to analyze the major plot point that happened in the last season finale. Probably more than the people who wrote it did, that's for sure. I think the writers sadly were only thinking about "well, plot x has to happen: Fitz and Liv need to be together at the end of this season and the beginning of season 5, so plot a just has to be the reason for it, no care if plots b,c,d,e,f and so on match up, plot a will set it in motion". Like, really show.

 

I suspect Shonda is more from the pantser school of writing, which is great for OMG moments, and pesky things like logic or character consistency take a backseat to whatever a person feels like writing at the time. Also Who Shot JR? only came about because the network ordered an extra episode of Dallas pretty last minute, and the writers had to think up a season-ending cliffhanger, fast, and they'd have the whole summer to figure out the culprit. So, every TV writer probably has it in the back of their heads that they, too, will come up with something hugely successful on the fly.

Edited by Dejana
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PrincessTT

PrincessTT

Why did he even need the list anyway? The jurors were all killed on a van outside of court, right? So all he needed was to know when the van would be leaving.

 

I've been working on the assumption that he didn't actually need the list (as Command he was much better placed to get the information than the First Lady would be) but he asked for it so that Mellie, and possibly by extension Fitz, would be implicated should the whole thing ever come out. 

 

I thought it was his "insurance policy" rather than him really needing the information from her. 

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Donny Ketchum

Donny Ketchum

I thought it would have been a twist that the baby was Richard's and the Queen had killed her own grandchild, but instead, Crown Prince sacrifices his dignity for his bride and banishes his mother for a woman who clearly didn't even treat him right.

I actually thought about that twist happening and was a bit disappointed when it didn't materialize.  But as for Richard's actions, they were his to make, and it was his decision.  Even if he found out he was cheated on, sometimes you can't just give up loving someone.  So I don't mind what he did there.

KaveDweller

KaveDweller

I've been working on the assumption that he didn't actually need the list (as Command he was much better placed to get the information than the First Lady would be) but he asked for it so that Mellie, and possibly by extension Fitz, would be implicated should the whole thing ever come out. 

 

I thought it was his "insurance policy" rather than him really needing the information from her. 

 

That actually makes sense, thanks.  Or at least makes sense for this show.

WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

A part of me likes that the prince was a good decent guy and banished his mother. Another part of me gets that clearly his wife, the princess who seemed pretty awesome and down to earth when we met her in the bathroom with Liv and Abby turned out to be cheating on her husband. I'm not quite sure what to think of the storyline. I feel like that scene with her in the bathroom-and I know it was short so maybe I'm taking too much-was supposed to show us that this girl who ended up being a princess is actually a deep person who's nice and kind and then they have her be a cheater? I mean... I just don't understand and also that the prince was a nice good guy after all and not in on her "Death". It..just doesn't add up. But whatever, considering this show is Scandal where everybody is a cheater I don' t know why I care so much!

Vanderboom

Vanderboom

.Now I don't watch HTGAWM so I know nothing, but has Olivia been alone ever? I mean, I know there was that time last season sort of but she was still hooking up with that random guy who turned out to be part of her Dad's team to takedown Jake and company but I mean, I feel like she has never been independent. I don't really remember the first season so maybe there was a blip there. But to me, she's always been caught up with Jake or on the side waiting for Fitz. Anyway, this long paragraph just boiling down to personally, I would like to see her go it alone. Like not even doing the random hook up thing. Just being alone. I however very much doubt that will happen.

You're so right. If the show is going to be about Olivia, then maybe having a breather in between relationships would help her retain her focus and rebuild OPA with new gladiators. She doesn't have to be a nun, but maybe she can just date around without the guy being the President, a potential soulmate, or a tool of her father's (I won't say the name of The Organization That Shall Not be Named). I'm just tired of the constant relationship bullshit that never seems to get anywhere.

I hope this time the Olitz Outing will stick so that it's not just lather rinse repeat. It's gotten to the point where I cringe every time Olivia,

Fitz, or Jake even SAYS the word "light."

If Shonda really wanted to troll fans, she should have Olivia realize that Huck is The One.

mwell345

mwell345

(edited)

Finally watched this weekend on ABC Live or whatever it is.   All in all the episode was better than I expected, but my expectations were pretty low considering the mess last season was.

 

The Diana Copy-Cat story was lazy writing.  What's next - the Pope comes to Washington to seek Olivia's help and on the same day the Speaker of the House resigns and Olivia needs to help him too..and oh, she is so busy - no time to make jam or fix Huck this season.

 

Now that Sally has outed them, I'm guessing this opens the door for Fitz to cancel the divorce and move Mellie back in the WH and act the happy couple (at Liv's insistence) and paves the way for Cyrus to return to do damage control.  And we're back to where we were seasons ago.

 

Why oh why did Quinn not kill Huck when she had the chance? 

 

Question - I can't remember - does Olivia know about Mellie/Huck's involvement with the jurors?

 

 

I'm just tired of the constant relationship bullshit that never seems to get anywhere.

 

I'm tired of it too, and it bugs me because Olivia is supposed to be a strong, willful, take charge woman and yet she's involved in this relationship with a married man that hasn't progressed in years and probably never will.  And every time she decides to extricate herself from it, he wags his finger and she goes running.  Maybe the point is to show she has a human side, but she could and should do so much better for herself that this relationship.   And Fitz is no prize to begin with. If I were her, I would be mortified at being thought of as his sidepiece.  I guess I  just would like to see her respect herself more. 

Edited by mwell345
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Eolivet

Eolivet

(edited)

After thinking about this for a night, I'm putting my (ill-advised) money on Cyrus leaking the photos. He most likely still had people loyal to him in the White House when he was fired, and he also knew about the past relationship (and Sally would trust his information). The visit from Mellie spurred the idea that he needed to do something to get himself back in the Oval Office, and we've seen how duplicitous he can be in episodes past. Of everyone, he needed to stop the divorce to get his foot back in the door. Cyrus knows how to handle a crisis, and more importantly, Fitz knows that Cyrus knows how to handle a crisis.

 

It could be Mellie, but it makes her look clueless and cuckholded yet again, and I just can't see Fitz doing it, because they've done that story already. Maybe Jake, with his ex-B613 connections, but it makes no sense for him to give his blessing for Liv's happiness and then yank the rug out from under her.

 

Cyrus has the motive and the potential opportunity, as well as the most to gain. I'm going with him until I'm (likely) proven wrong.

Edited by Eolivet
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KaveDweller

KaveDweller

You're so right. If the show is going to be about Olivia, then maybe having a breather in between relationships would help her retain her focus and rebuild OPA with new gladiators. She doesn't have to be a nun, but maybe she can just date around without the guy being the President, a potential soulmate, or a tool of her father's (I won't say the name of The Organization That Shall Not be Named). I'm just tired of the constant relationship bullshit that never seems to get anywhere.

 

Well she did try and date a different guy last season, it's not her fault he turned out to be a tool of her father's.  She can't go up to every guy in a bar and question them to see if they are some kind of spy/assassin.

 

But I agree with your point.  Olivia is so strong when it comes to her job, it is a shame to see her struggle so much with the men in her life.

reggiejax

reggiejax

(edited)
Once you start trying to make sense of any of it, the illusion disappears.

 

The illusion doesn't exactly stand up even when you suspend all disbelief. In any case, I like applying logic to the Scandal universe just as an exercise. But I don't let it interfere with whatever enjoyment I get from the show. Personally, I only watch for the soap silliness that I haven't seen since the glory days of Dynasty. Of course Shonda Rhimes would no doubt take umbrage at such a comparison. But I'll be honest, I keep waiting for someone to threaten to take down Denver Carrington. If it were Mellie, I might actually like the character. 

 

And that was the ammunition they needed to force her to resign as Veep.  I guess she's not afraid of that info coming out.

 

Sally was not forced to resign as VP, she voluntarily did so to run for President. Shortly thereafter she killed Daniel Douglas, and Cyrus helped her cover it up. And somehow, rather than using the info to bend her to his will, she still ran for President. And in fact she has still managed to be an annoying thorn in Fitz side ever since.

Edited by reggiejax
Guest

Guest

The illusion doesn't exactly stand up even when you suspend all disbelief. In any case, I like applying logic to the Scandal universe just as an exercise. But I don't let it interfere with whatever enjoyment I get from the show. Personally, I only watch for the soap silliness that I haven't seen since the glory days of Dynasty. Of course Shonda Rhimes would no doubt take umbrage at such a comparison. But I'll be honest, I keep waiting for someone to threaten to take down Denver Carrington. If it were Mellie, I might actually like the character.

Sally was not forced to resign as VP, she voluntarily did so to run for President. Shortly thereafter she killed Daniel Douglas, and Cyrus helped her cover it up. And somehow, rather than using the info to bend her to his will, she still ran for President. And in fact she has still managed to be an annoying thorn in Fitz side ever since.

She hadn't resigned when she killed him, but she had started running her campaign. They thought she wouldn't resign once the cover up happened, but she did.

I love her current role on the show. Not as a person, but she's a great character.

reggiejax

reggiejax

She hadn't resigned when she killed him, but she had started running her campaign. They thought she wouldn't resign once the cover up happened, but she did.

 

 

I wanted to be sure so I went and watched the episode where all this happened (Y.O.L.O) and Sally had tendered her resignation to Fitz before finding out about Daniel Douglas and before killing him. However, she had not yet publicly announced her resignation. Before she could, Cyrus tried to manipulate her with the photos, which Sally countered with a classic ShondaWorld speech that was a lot of word salad that said nothing of substance, and was in fact quite wrong about what would happen if those photos were leaked. After finding out, she killed Daniel Douglas in the heat of the ensuing argument. She still however went ahead and ran for President, and despite having two incredibly explosive bits of information on her, Cyrus has yet to use any of it. 

 

In any case, my point was that Cyrus was not trying to get her to resign via blackmail, but rather to get her to fall in line with the Fitz administration. And being Cyrus, he failed miserably. 

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