S17.E38: Episode 38

[pennben]

I addressed this in the E37 thread, after deleting my initial response here and reviewing the tapes, as they say. Julie specifically stated closest without going over wins/if both over, closest wins.

Edited September 17, 2015 by pennben

[Xazeal]

What am I missing? Several of you said variations of this thought. But I feel like it would have been so much smarter to get rid of Liz. She has two guaranteed votes out of 7 jurors! And won several HOHs. Whereas John was evicted once before and that's something you could really press when you are making your F2 speech to the jury. Plus he never won HOH. Why would Vanessa rather take her? I just don't get it

There are a couple of reasons, for me. 

1. Against Liz, Vanessa has Shelli, Becky, JMac, and Steve in the bag. Liz really just has Austin/Julia, and would have a hard time getting Jackie or James. Meg votes for Julie Chen. 

2. Vanessa being directly responsible for both Austin's and Liz's evictions may cost her yet another jury vote.

3. Liz is much, much more likely to take Vanessa to the end than JMac. Liz has been made aware that no woman has beaten a man in F2 and she could get revenge on Steve for evicting Julia. 

 

So essentially, in a F3 of Vanessa/John/Steve, Vanessa would have a harder time getting to F2 and I think a lot of her jury votes are much less certain. 

Edited September 17, 2015 by Xazeal

[fuzzed]

It was a Doctor vs. a Cornell student vs. a Duke graduate vs. ...well, Liz. 

 

This is what has made this season so much more interesting to me than most others. I find intelligent players more compelling than bolt-on bimbos and vacuous bros. With the exception of Liz, all of this season's players who either are dumb or pretended to be have already walked out the front door.

[ghoulina]

Well, Goodbye JMac, for the second time. You made for one entertaining summer, but your time is up. I liked John, but let's face it - he wasn't going to win this. And that's why it makes the most sense to send him now. Because anyone who makes final two is going to want to take him. 

 

Now I'm rooting for Steve. But I wouldn't be upset if Vanessa won. As much as she grates, she has played hard and played well (half the time anyhow). I think it would be deserved.

 

And I really wish they would have lingered on the Jury House longer, so I could hear just what Austin had to say about it. I just have to know what his list of reasons is, why she has not played a good game. Because I think Shelli was spot on. They're all sitting there in Jury, and Vanessa is still in the house. They had chances to take her out, but they didn't. She manipulated many of them (that thing with Julia was brilliant) and also won lots of comps. Austin is really just bitter. He was a duo with Vanessa early on, but once he and Liz started getting hot and heavy, he became tighter with the twins. What was Vanessa to do? Be content to be the 4th wheel? No, she had to find other options to get to the finals, and he's just pissed that his lack of forethought blew up in his face. 

 

I'm not sure how I'd feel about a Liz win. Liz has won her fair share of comps, but I really think that's the extent of her game. Socially, I haven't really seen her do squat. She got pretty comfy with her "cool kids" alliance fairly early on and from where I'm sitting didn't do much after that. It seemed that that alliance just felt in her lap because she was a twin and they wanted her for that strong bond. I guess you could say whatever she had going on with Austin could constitute making social moves, as he was fighting to keep her safe for a long time. But that just disgusts me and I wouldn't want to reward someone for that. 

 

So yea, Steve, but Vanessa is okay with me as well. 

 

I just wish she would stop freaking crying over every decision she makes! Just own it. Damn. 

 

I knew Rachel was pregnant, her face was all puffy. Congrats to them. Brenchel drive me crazy, but not in a hateful way. More in a slightly snarky way. I wish them the best. 

 

LOVED seeing Beast Mode! Other than his Amber creepiness, that dude was hilarious. He takes himself so seriously. Love it!

So essentially, in a F3 of Vanessa/John/Steve, Vanessa would have a harder time getting to F2 and I think a lot of her jury votes are much less certain.

 

I agree. Liz is pissed at Steve (or so she acts), so if it's up to her, I see her taking Vanessa. I see JMac taking Steve. But more than that, if JMac was still in the game, he's so unlikely to actually win, everyone would be tripping over taking him to final 2. 

[fuzzed]

It seemed that that alliance just felt in her lap ...

 

That wasn't the only thing to just fall in her lap. (BTW, "felt in her lap" — regardless of whether it was intentional — made me snort.)

[laurakaye]

So, looking ahead to the final speeches to the jury, we will have two of the following:

 

Steve, who might not be able to form a coherent sentence without passing out or throwing up

Vanessa, who might not be able to form a coherent sentence without sobbing hysterically while talking in circles at 100 mph

Liz, who might not be able to form-uh a coherent sentence-uh.

 

Gosh, can't wait.

 

I feel like whoever can simply discuss their strategy without falling apart wins the money.

Edited September 17, 2015 by laurakaye

[ghoulina]

Austin is bitter but no one is in the jury is listening to him. Liz barely shed a year when he left and then coos about Caleb, I think she despises Austin.

 

I love imagining the steam coming out of Austin's ears when he sees Liz swooning over Beast Mode! 

 

I thought that was funny, because it showed James clearly didn't listen to anything Vanessa said afterwards. Pretty interesting metaphor for his game play.

 

I actually think James just likes to fuck with people. Like during comps, he would mess with all their minds. I saw him saying that as trying to rub salt in the wound and make Austin all paranoid. Which, really, there's no point at this stage. But maybe old habits are hard to break, or James just wanted to be an ass to Austin. 

 

Personally I can't see James at all winning AFP over John. I truly don't get what would be lovable or likeable about James.

 

I thought James was hilarious (his love of Titanic) and sweet (bringing Audrey food) and played a decent game (actually put up real targets when HOH). I have been splitting my votes between him and JMac. I have no idea what America will do, though. I always find that when I peak out from under my PTV rock, views are vastly different from the ones we have here. So we might end up with freaking Austin or Clay as AFP. 

 

Smart or not I don't understand how they knew exactly what day such and such happened. I realize there's not much to do in the house but memorize shit but I still don't get it. I've been at my job a little over two months, so a somewhat comparable timeframe as these guys. But if you asked me what day 'Bob' was fired or what day the boss brought in donuts I'd have no effing idea.

 

Very true. But, is it possible that if they know a comp like this is coming, they might do a nightly tally in their heads?

That wasn't the only thing to just fall in her lap. (BTW, "felt in her lap" — regardless of whether it was intentional — made me snort.)

 

Ha! No, that was a complete typo, but I'm now keeping it.

[blixie]

 

She got pretty comfy with her "cool kids" alliance fairly early on

 

I don't agree with this at all, Liz was part of an alliance that called themselves Freaks and Geeks, they were formed because they WERE NOT part of the cool kids smoking on the porch making bitchy and charming commentary about her being "the fat one' and "thickems".  Yet she and Austin and her sister, were always hanging out with James/Jackie/Meg/Becky/John. Liz's mistake was being a smug bitch in her DR goodbye videos. I have no idea why she thought gloating and rubbing it in with almost EVERY evictee was a good idea, coupled with the fact that she was part of a super obvious threat that they ALL ignored for WEEKS, I think they resent Liz AND discredit her game play being thanks to a production twist with the strongest must trust-able alliance out of everyone and the rest to her showmance with Austin who carried her with HIS social game. So she didn't have a great social game, she just "hid" behind the Sasquatch both in terms of likability and terms of his being a comp threat, though she was a threat far more than he EVER was.

 

I've mentioned this else where, but the kicker with most of these jurors (Becky, James, Jackie, Meg, John) is that the final three are there because they were too fucking STUPID and LAZY to get out a set of Twins, the other big showmance, and the most incredibly obvious Alliance of all time, lead by the one of best strategic players of all time. None of those people want to hear how dumb they were and that's why Van/Steve/Liz 3//5 of Freaks and Geeks are there in the end. 

[Sammich63]

I still can't get in to vote since I voted on Tuesday night, so I'm perplexed.  I thought is was daily voting.  

[Skittl1321]

 

Very true. But, is it possible that if they know a comp like this is coming, they might do a nightly tally in their heads?

Yep.  That was a HARD competition the first time it appeared.

Now the houseguests drill this sort of stuff (and memorize the photos on the wall)

[Wootini]

I loved the little recap of the strategy before the surprise eviction.

Caleb in small doses is actually kind of awesome.

I'll show myself out.

 

I find that I can tolerate even the most annoying former hamsters in small doses (Brenchel, Caleb, Jessie). Well, not Frankie. Frankie needs to be destroyed at a cellular level.

 

I enjoyed the final nomination ceremony where nobody even seemed remotely interested in who was going up since they all know the game and they all understand that it's the Veto that matters the most at this point. And unfortunately Vanessa won that one and got rid of JMac. Which I guess makes sense.

 

I don't think it really matters too much who Vanessa eliminates. Her goal at this point is to win that final HoH. That is going to be crucial to her game. Because if either Steve or Liz get it, they'd be fools to take Vanessa to the final two with them because she will clearly win. Well… actually, I could see Liz being stupid enough to take Vanessa, thinking everyone in the Jury will be hating on Vanessa not realizing it's really just Austin who feels that way. I think at this point even Julia would vote for Vanessa to win. We'll see if Austin is any less butthurt when they get to the actual finale and they have to vote.

 

If it's Steve versus Liz in the end, I could see the vote being kind of close. But I think Liz might still pull it out because her social game was better than Steve's. But if either of them are up against Vanessa, there's no way it's not going to be a near-unanimous vote for Vanessa to win. Sorry Steve. I don't see any way you can pull this off.

 

At least if Vanessa wins maybe she can buy some more hats.

[Sweets McGee]

 

Van winning Veto was the best. I love her. She is Queen, and a boss ass bitch. If she doesn't end up in F2/win I will be full of whatever. 

This. I was cheering like I was watching playoff football when she won the Veto.

[AbsoluteShower]

Two things I've had enough of:

 

1) Vanessa with the head clutching and the pained expressions and the crying and the "do you understand you understand why I had to do it do you understand why I did it I had to do it do you understand do you understand I will not stop badgering you until you tell me YOU UNDERSTAND!"

 

2) Steve with the "I need a hug" and "give me a hug" and "one more hug" - It's starting to look a little creepy...

 

Johnny Mac's exit speech was killer - he wasn't going to even pretend that his eviction was a shocking surprise; saying that Liz was useless at hiding her excitement and that he wasn't going to beg Vanessa. Perhaps he thought he would forestall a rambling self-justifying Vanessa-speech. He was wrong.

 

Anybody else disappointed that Brendon didn't take the opportunity to announce that cure for cancer he's been working on? Oh well, maybe next season, eh?

[Primetimer]

Big Brother is down to its final few players, but unfortunately another household is about to have three people as well.

Read the story

[ProfCrash]

Caleb is actually entertaining when he's not spinning tall tales or stalking some poor girl.

 

And yet Caleb stalked a woman, was awful toward her, couldn't take no and was genreally an asshole. I am trying to decide if I am watching Survivor 32 because I really don't like him and don't think his awful bahevior should be rewarded. The fact that he is an idiot who tells tall tales and makes him appears humerous is dangerous because it masks the fact that he stalked Amber the entire time in the house. So yeah, no.

 

I didn't watch tonight because 1) Caleb 2) Rachel 3) Caleb.

[Sara2009]

What am i missing here in the HOH comp? the winning number was 2800 seconds. JMac guesses 3600, Steve guessed 601. At no time did Julie say guess the correct # without going over. Whoever is closest wins right? Isnt Jmac closer? I watched a # of times and there was no rule about going over.

please someone explain

Julie DID say " without going over." I heard it.

[AbsoluteShower]

Thank goodness we didn't have to endure Chen rehashing the long, national nightmare that was the Ariana Grande concert outing. Another second of seeing that shrieking bell-end Frankie may have caused irreparable damage to my TV screen...

[ghoulina]

don't agree with this at all, Liz was part of an alliance that called themselves Freaks and Geeks, they were formed because they WERE NOT part of the cool kids smoking on the porch making bitchy and charming commentary about her being "the fat one' and "thickems".  Yet she and Austin and her sister, were always hanging out with James/Jackie/Meg/Becky/John.

 

Mileage obviously varies, but I didn't watch feeds or BBAD, so all I saw was stuff on the actual show. I just remember Clay and Shelli as "the cool kids" and Shelli loved Liz because they were both sorority sisters or something. Then when they found out Liz had a twin, they were all over that. One other solid member for their alliance. I don't remember Liz hanging out a ton with those other people being shown on the show, but maybe I just didn't get to see everything. 

[woodscommaelle]

The top of Liz's dress last night was hideous.  That sweetheart shape or whatever it is?  Dislike.

[Cutty]

Julie's interview with John was... interesting. His awkwardness and random one word answers seemed to throw her off. You could tell she was begging for the segment to end.

 

Steve refusing to even try the champagne. IT DOESN'T TASTE BAD, DICKFACE. JUST TRY IT. I'm almost wondering if he spent the first 18 years of his life in a literal bubble like that Jake Gyllenhaal movie. 

 

I expect John to beat James out for AFP. Screaming in the DR and having an awkward laugh apparently goes a long way these days.

[AbsoluteShower]

Julie's interview with John was... interesting. His awkwardness and random one word answers seemed to throw her off. You could tell she was begging for the segment to end.

 

She probably would have preferred LIz - more showmance questions!!

[Mumbles]

Unless Steve wins HoH and is smart enough to realize Vanessa's appeal to the jury takes Liz (unlikely), I fully expect a Vanessa victory. But what a joyless victory, with all the over-analysis and exhausting triple-guessing and crying jags. But that said, after many seasons where the final two were awful choices (the racist season two years ago, Jun/Allison, Maggie/Yvette come to mind) it wouldn't be the worst BB outcome. She's smart, an engaged player, and inoffensive.

This is two seasons in a row where I have actually enjoyed the (mostly) harmless goofballs they have thrown on the show. Beats seasons where there was blatant racism, bullying, or sleaziness. I only wish they would make the show more diverse, both demographically and age-wise.

[Former Nun]

IT DOESN'T TASTE BAD, DICKFACE. JUST TRY IT.

 

 

Is that why he didn't drink a drop?  Maybe he doesn't drink...maybe he made some sort of promise or vow.

Anybody else disappointed that Brendon didn't take the opportunity to announce that cure for cancer he's been working on? Oh well, maybe next season, eh?

 

 

Did he ever complete the work and get his doctorate?

[AbsoluteShower]

Is that why he didn't drink a drop?  Maybe he doesn't drink...maybe he made some sort of promise or vow.

 

Did he ever complete the work and get his doctorate?

According to his LinkedIn page he's still working on his PhD but has moved on to finding a cure for Alzheimers instead.

 

Maybe Steve's mommy made him take the pledge - "Lips That Touch Liquor Shall Ne'er Touch Mine, Steven!"

[Cutty]

Is that why he didn't drink a drop?  Maybe he doesn't drink...maybe he made some sort of promise or vow.

 

He told Vanessa a story about how he got drunk at a frat party once and made a huge ass of himself. I don't think a sip of champagne would do any harm, and he was smelling it like a 8 year old smells a piece of broccoli. I'm over his act.

 

Maybe Steve's mommy made him take the pledge - "Lips That Touch Liquor Shall Ne'er Touch Mine, Steven!"

 

LMAO! Bravo.

[HurricaneVal]

I love imagining the steam coming out of Austin's ears when he sees Liz swooning over Beast Mode!

Oh, and you know it will happen, ghoulina!  Remember how irritated he was about the twins drooling over Jesse?

 

Brenchel can just go away.  Far away.  Somewhere with Frankie and Jesse.  A long, long ways away.

 

Beast Mode Cowboy can come back, but only if done in small, campy doses as he was used last night.  JUDY CHOP!!! indeed....

[LoneHaranguer]

As a matter of principle, I wish Austin luck in his "not Vanessa" campaign, but he's up against airheads who would rather believe that Vanessa is some sort of genius than face how dumb they were. Maybe he can leverage how he was unnecessarily blindsided in a season where people have been exceptionally nice to each other. It's one thing to respect an honorable player who bested you, another to reward someone who pulled crap like that (whatever you might think of their game-play).

 

Count me among those who are disappointed with the way the season is winding down. I'm hoping for an unexpected twist, like Liz winning, but it's probably not happening.

[Ceeg]

Maybe he can leverage how he was unnecessarily blindsided in a season where people have been exceptionally nice to each other. It's one thing to respect an honorable player who bested you, another to reward someone who pulled crap like that (whatever you might think of their game-play).

Vanessa didn't unnecessarily pull any crap IMO. This is Big Brother, honor has no place in this game. She had to blindside him, because if she told him beforehand, he would have had an amazing opportunity to talk her out of it. He would have used every trick in the book to get her to vote out Steve. He would have used his loyalty and he would have guilt-tripped her and promised her a F2, even though it would have been total bullshit because no way is he choosing Vanessa over Liz and no way is Liz choosing Vanessa over Austin. Austin is pissed because Vanessa made him lose the game. The end. He literally told Julie in his exit interview "I was going to win". He's bitter that she did to him what she (with his help and blessing) has done to almost every juror on the panel, and it's all sour grapes for him right now. Even Shelli, who has said in interviews that Vanessa probably fucked her over, can see that Vanessa has outplayed everyone in that house, including Austin.

[HurricaneVal]

Eh, I don't know.  I know that he's a polarizing houseguest out here in the world, but I think Steve winning the game would be a huge twist.  The other houseguests don't seem to like him, and he's been pretty much on the bottom of every alliance or pairing he's tried to make.  He's awkward, and made the other houseguests very uncomfortable with his inability to read social clues and his general creepiness.  Frankly, I think it is a miracle he's still there--and it would be a miracle if he wins.

 

Vanessa worked it hard--hard--all summer, but I think she was unnecessarily convoluted in her thinking and could have played a much more subtle game to greater success.  I'd be OK with her winning.

 

I think Liz rode a lot of coattails.  Her twinness made her an automatic "get" as far as the big power alliances were concerned, because she represented two votes once Julia joined the game.  As soon as her Clelli alliance blew up, that's when she started really responding to Austin's overtures, and I as much as I don't like him, he's a fairly smart guy and had a (mostly) winning strategy.  At no point during the game did I see where Liz was taking a proactive strategic position.  I'd be very disappointed with a Liz win.

[ghoulina]

He told Vanessa a story about how he got drunk at a frat party once and made a huge ass of himself. I don't think a sip of champagne would do any harm, and he was smelling it like a 8 year old smells a piece of broccoli. I'm over his act.

 

Well, maybe that was his reason. Maybe he was afraid if he took a sip and liked it, he'd want more. And didn't want to make a fool out of himself on national TV. It wouldn't take much. He's not a regular drinker and he's very small. I hate when people pressure others to drink. I come from a family of alcoholics and while I was never a full blown alcoholic, I did have some issues with drinking in my youth; made an ass out of myself a few too many times.  I now haven't had a drop in over 8 years and I won't take a sip of anything. Not even to celebrate my sisters' marriages. If Steve said he didn't want any, they should have just let it be. 

[blixie]

 

This is Big Brother, honor has no place in this game.

 

For REAL. Further Austin was in an alliance with her, he has watched her swear on her integrity to errbody else, that was certainly FINE BY HIM, he didn't care about the sanctity of the LGBT community being sworn on when it wasn't him being betrayed, but than Austin is SPESHUL. Come the fuck on. No. NO. NOOOOPE. He certainly talked out of both sides of his mouth and what was his speech to Steve/Johnny, VICTIMS aren't we ALL? It burns on the other side doesn't it?

 

 

to greater success

 

She has 7 competition wins, and is in the F3 with two people she can likely beat at F2, at least one who will for sure take her to F2? How much more successful does she need to be?

Edited September 17, 2015 by blixie

[Wootini]

I know JMac has been playing this wacky character all summer, but how awesome would it be if Steve made the final two and after Vanessa's rambling, incoherent speech that degenerated into her scrunching up her face trying to squeak out some tears, he stood up and delivered a well-reasoned, intelligent speech where he revealed that he's been playing socially awkward all summer as a strategy and they all fell for it.

 

I know, I know… but I have to imagine there's going to be SOMETHING that makes the finale even remotely interesting! :D

[K-9]

A year ago, there was similar optimistic hope that BB16 Victoria was putting on an act too.

Probably good for Vanessa's game that Austin announced to the remaining HGs on his way out the door that the jury won't vote for her to win. That might influence Steve or Liz to take Vanessa to Final Two, if Vanessa doesn't win the final HoH. If Vanessa gets to Final Two, that would be okay if some of the jurors vote against Vanessa because she over-played the game or didn't respect her play. John called her on her bullying, and James spoke to her about her overthinking. Still, $50000 second prize is a decent summer gig for Steve or Liz if they have to sit next to Vanessa.

Edited September 17, 2015 by K-9

[Cutty]

The reason Vanessa couldn't tell Austin was because she couldn't risk him going to JMac and flipping the vote on her -- and that's assuming she trusted crazy John was going to vote Austin out anyway (which I'm not sure she was). If she tells Austin she has to break the tie and send him home but JMac evicts Steve and Austin stays, she's totally screwed herself. Blindsides are great for TV but awful from a jury management perspective. But in this case I don't think Vanessa had much of a choice. 

 

And on a season filled with predictability, at least we got one good blindside out of it. 

Edited September 17, 2015 by Cutty

[Wandering Snark]

The top of Liz's dress last night was hideous.  That sweetheart shape or whatever it is?  Dislike

Yeah it looked like a 'wardrobe malfunction' waiting to happen. I did think she looked pretty though... she should do something like cut her hair short and die it red though, heh.

[Wings]

I loved seeing Rachael and Brendan again but did not like the way Rachael handled the question about Liz and Austin.  You can be honest without being hurtful or mean.  There were so many ways to handle that short of saying, no fucking way!  

 

Good for you Sheli!  She will be the voice of reason for the jury.  She will not change Austin's mind but she will keep everyone else on track.  

 

Vanessa for the win.  I cannot get behind Steve or Liz.  

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Vanessa didn't unnecessarily pull any crap IMO. This is Big Brother, honor has no place in this game. She had to blindside him, because if she told him beforehand, he would have had an amazing opportunity to talk her out of it. He would have used every trick in the book to get her to vote out Steve. He would have used his loyalty and he would have guilt-tripped her and promised her a F2, even though it would have been total bullshit because no way is he choosing Vanessa over Liz and no way is Liz choosing Vanessa over Austin.

Sounds like you're arguing the other reason why Vanessa doesn't deserve to win. If she were the good player some jurists think, Austin would have been wasting his time. But, we've seen Vanessa cut off discussion before, so I'm not convinced that was behind what she did here. I think she just preferred to limit the amount of time she'd have to see Austin upset, which was a selfish decision that made things worse for him. And honor most certainly has a place in the game. I thought Derrick played with honor. The others were no match for him, but that was the casting director's fault, not his.

[Ceeg]

Sounds like you're arguing the other reason why Vanessa doesn't deserve to win. If she were the good player some jurists think, Austin would have been wasting his time. But, we've seen Vanessa cut off discussion before, so I'm not convinced that was behind what she did here. I think she just preferred to limit the amount of time she'd have to see Austin upset, which was a selfish decision that made things worse for him. And honor most certainly has a place in the game. I thought Derrick played with honor. The others were no match for him, but that was the casting director's fault, not his.

I can't speak about Derrick, since I didn't watch that season, but in every previous season I've ever watched (and I've seen them all, except BB9), the person who won had to lie almost constantly. I'm going to say it's nearly impossible to win this game without being a liar in some way or another. There is nothing honorable about systematically evicting people one by one, and lying to their faces. I think the players who are regarded as "The Greats", like Dr. Will and Dan, are both huge liars and both played this game throwing honor out the window. But that's the name of the game. That's how you get to the end, and it's how you win.

 

Austin completely understood this, throughout the game. He is a BB Superfan. He had as many deals as Vanessa and planned on going back on almost all of them. When Austin was in positions of power, he encouraged everyone to keep the soon-to-be evicted in the dark. They did it with Becky, they did it with John, they did it with Jason (before his nomination), they did it with Jeff (before they picked that fight with him). The only person I can recall who knew they were the target and were staying the target was Meg, and that's because she begged Vanessa to just tell her. 

 

But, as soon as Austin is on the receiving end of what he's been giving all summer, he turns into a whiny pissbaby who can't take losing a game he thought he was a lock to win. Them's the brakes, and that's the game. Austin literally said "Judas got Judas'd" a.k.a. "she beat me at my own game, but I'm still gonna be a bitter bitch because I'm a sore loser."

And anyway, as a livefeed watcher, there are myriad reasons Vanessa wanted to blindside Austin (one of which I'll talk about under the cut), but I have no doubts that part of the reason why Vanessa didn't tell Austin he was gone was because of Austin's ability to talk himself out of messes. Austin was good at this game, and Vanessa respected him too much as a threat to allow him to barrel his way through to the F2.

 

Vanessa also needed to blindside Austin because she knew that John wanted to make a big move and do that. John told Austin that he wanted to make good TV and he wanted to blindside Steve. Austin told this to Vanessa. Vanessa then used John's own words (blindsiding, tv show, etc.) to convince him that she wanted Austin gone and she wanted him gone via blindside, to get him on board. She played into John's mass chaos style of play, John decided it would be a great move (his vote DR showed he was ready for a big, bloody move), and John really played up to Austin how he was going to blindside Steve, just to turn around and blindside Austin. That's why John said, after the eviction, "yeah I'm a terrible person".

[AbsoluteShower]

I can't speak about Derrick, since I didn't watch that season, but in every previous season I've ever watched (and I've seen them all, except BB9), the person who won had to lie almost constantly. I'm going to say it's nearly impossible to win this game without being a liar in some way or another. There is nothing honorable about systematically evicting people one by one, and lying to their faces. I think the players who are regarded as "The Greats", like Dr. Will and Dan, are both huge liars and both played this game throwing honor out the window. But that's the name of the game. That's how you get to the end, and it's how you win.

 

 

 

And yet you always hear at least one of the final two state to the jury "I played this game with integrity", thus proving themselves to be massive liars right to the end. But you're right. It is impossible to be a winner at this game without deceiving everybody else.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

And yet you always hear at least one of the final two state to the jury "I played this game with integrity", thus proving themselves to be massive liars right to the end. But you're right. It is impossible to be a winner at this game without deceiving everybody else.

Just as you can keep your integrity while you bluff in playing poker, you can do so as you lie and backstab when this game requires. It's how the game is designed and played. The key word is "requires".

[RedheadZombie]

My husband and I continue to believe Johnny Mac's voice is actually the reincarnated voice of Chicago Cubs announcer, Harry Caray. He has the voice inflection, the affable eccentricities, and the tendency to hang out with guys named Steve. Holy Cow, Johnny Mac...you got evicted (again).

 

Maybe Johnny Mac can be the new narrator.  It might be, it could be, it is ...... a blindside.

 

But Vanessa was at her absolute worst after the eviction. Good God that was ridiculous. And if it was "fake" then it was piss poor gameplay, because no one was buying it, certainly not Liz. Frankly, Liz was showing incredible restraint not going completely off on her. She was practically telling Liz she needed to feel bad for poor Vanessa.

 

I don't hate Vanessa, but that's definitely her worst trait.  No one suffers as much as Vanessa.  I sent your boyfriend home?  But you don't understand how painful that was for me.  You're tearing up?  Well look at me, I'm sobbing.  But what about meeeeeee?  Reminds me of how after spanking me, my mom would pull that bullshit that it hurt her more than it hurt me.  Yeah, right.

 

Caleb is actually entertaining when he's not spinning tall tales or stalking some poor girl.

 

The stalking was horrible, but I'd probably watch a weekly sitcom of Caleb and Victoria telling their ridiculous stories.  Victoria's best was when that bird (crow) picked her up with those things (talons) and flew off with her until her mother leaped into the sky and snatched her back.  Supplemented by Jocasta mimicking the scenario using a shoe as Victoria, and asking if she was the smallest two year old in the history of the world.  I was rolling on the ground with that one.

 

ETA:  youtube link for Victoria's story

Edited September 18, 2015 by RedheadZombie

[SnideAsides]

There was no counting challenge this season, was there? I kinda liked those.

I'd wonder if it was lost when the Takeover twist was cancelled early. The intention was apparently to theme the challenges around each week's Takeover person - there was the opening film premiere HoHs, then travel for Phil, film production for Kathy, parties for Gronk, and 1990s for whoever was supposed to be next - but since then it's basically been challenges that couldn't be rethemed (the cliff wall HoH, Otev, the sponsored paint-splatter one, maybe the boomerang thing if the prop was already built), challenges with minimal props (the "fill a jar" HoH that probably still had its fishbowls lying around backstage, all of the buzzers-and-TV-screens ones including Zingbot and the annual "clumsily steal something from a European-format BB" starting blocks challenge), and exact copies of random challenges from previous seasons with the same themes as before (comics zipline, ballet bowling, finding Veto tokens in the house, I want to say the nut-rolling one too). Especially with BoB also being cancelled early, it seems they're phoning in the challenges more than usual this season, and that's the sort of challenge they need to put a lot of actual effort into.

[CreamedPeas]

Damnit!!! There goes my boy Johnny Mac! I don't like Steve. Can't stand Vanessa. Liz I don't care about either way I just don't want Bigfoot sharing in her winnings. So....I have to hope Steve wins, I guess.

Splitting my votes between JM and James for America's Favorite.

I think Johnny M sounds like Bobcat Goldwaith.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Splitting my votes between JM and James for America's Favorite.

Their voting site is broken for me. I got some votes in on Wednesday, but it keeps telling me I've reached my limit since then. Somebody suggested that they're going by IP address. If that's true, they need to fire their tech guys because being able to tie an IP address to anything beyond a particular ISP or wifi site is absurd.

[Uwbadgmad]

Their voting site is broken for me. I got some votes in on Wednesday, but it keeps telling me I've reached my limit since then. Somebody suggested that they're going by IP address. If that's true, they need to fire their tech guys because being able to tie an IP address to anything beyond a particular ISP or wifi site is absurd.

I am not able to vote again either. It says we should be able to vote 20 times everyday. I voted for Johnny Mac again under another email address but can't vote again there either. On Johnny Mac's Twitter account is a note from BB that says they are working on the glitch but this has taken way too long.

 

Okay late Friday night, I was able to vote with both emails. So it seems to be working now!

Edited September 19, 2015 by Uwbadgmad

[Gemma Violet]

The voting is working for me now too, but it's not stopping at 20.  I'm up to 35 votes for Johnny Mac and still going strong.  So they fixed it but not really.

[RedheadZombie]

Isn't there usually a comp where they have to step forward or backwards? I think it's a before and after.

[Sweets McGee]

Isn't there usually a comp where they have to step forward or backwards? I think it's a before and after.

Yeah, that's usually the Final 4 HOH comp. I was surprised they ditched that this year. Also, I was expecting Final 4 veto to be called Diamond Veto but it was just a regular veto.

[K-9]

No Pandora's box this season. Love how it can shakeup a predictable week.