NFL Thread

[DrSpaceman73]

Manning really looked good and much healthier in this game. Except he still missed on two long throws. Overthrew them thow, seems to be a timing thing.

Sitting out was good for him, even though he didn't like it, at least for that long.

Glad to see he got a chance again and hopefully gets another shot in the playoffs at least to start. THey can always do just what happened here if he plays poorly, switch to the other guy.

And suddenly NE does not look that great, and Brady was hobbling. Two weeks for them all to get healthy.

I am guessing Pitt and KC as WCs both win their games. that means it will be KC and NE and Pitt vs Denver, both great match ups.

[yourpointis]

Browns cleaning house again, fire Mike Pettine, GM Ray Farmer

[AimingforYoko]

Man, I don't know what would piss me off more if I was a Browns fan, the fact that my team has sucked since its inception or the fact that the team I should be rooting for has won two Super Bowls for another city.

Edited January 4, 2016 by AimingforYoko

[mojoween]

Apparently Brandon Weeden and Brian Hoyer both play for Houston? Whichever, two guys posted a pic of themselves in their Houston conference champs caps and it made Browns fans sad.

Someone else tweeted that Cleveland had has four head coaches in the same timeframe Ohio State lost four games.

Factory of sadness, indeed.

[pennben]

I hope the Browns don't trade or release Manziel.  He seems like he's been acting like a [drunken] child to get out of Cleveland.  I hope he (for the first time) doesn't get what he wants.  What an asshole.

[merylinkid]

I think one of the reasons Pettine was one and done is his handling of Manziel.   They really did give him chance after chance after chance.   They let him get away with mouthing the right words while carrying on as always.    When Dallas had the problem child Pacman Jones, they had a bodyguard assigned to him specifically to keep him from doing stupid stuff.   Yeah, grown men, whatever.   Sometimes you gotta protect your investment.

 

On the other hand, changing coaches every 10 minutes doesn't help thing either.   If both Brandon Weedon and Brian Hoyer can help the Texans win the division, the problem is not necessarily the players.   (and where the hell was that Brandon Weedon in Dallas?).

[Rick Kitchen]

Are people really talking about Chip Kelly for the 49ers?  Please, no.

Man, I don't know what would piss me off more if I was a Browns fan, the fact that my team has sucked since its inception or the fact that the team I should be rooting for has won two Super Bowls for another city.

 

Or the fact that Manziel spent the weekend in Las Vegas?

[mojoween]

I don't even get The Niners. Way to not give Tomsula a chance.

[yourpointis]

Report: Browns 'so done' with Manziel, so what's next for him?

 

The MMQB's Peter King is reporting that the Cleveland Browns will move on from quarterback Johnny Manziel.

Whatever Cleveland Browns are remaining standing, that is. After all, the team razed head coach Mike Pettine and GM Ray Farmer after Sunday's loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers. So we assume this directive comes straight from owner Jimmy Haslam.

<snip>

On top of that, Manziel was spotted in Las Vegas on Saturday. Haslam later told reporters Sunday night that Manziel did indeed skip his concussion treatment scheduled for Sunday morning.

 

Jimmy Haslam on the Browns' future at QB: "We do have the second pick in the draft."
— Aditi Kinkhabwala (@AKinkhabwala) January 4, 2016

 

[merylinkid]

Tomsula needed to be gone.    There were rumors he was Baalke's inside source under Harbaugh.   It is known that during HC interviews after Harbaugh was forced out the interviewees were told they HAD to keep Tomsula as DC.   Since HCs prefer to pick their own staff that was a no go.   With no one with a brain wanting the job, it fell to Tomsula.   Solely because he was loyal.   It was clear from his first interview he was in over his head.  The number of players who chose to retire rather than continue to play for him was a huge clue by four.   The product on the field was the nail in the coffin that this was a stupid idea from inception.   

 

Baalke needs to go next if Jed York really does want a consistently winning team.   Because Baalke is more about building an empire within the organization than winning games.  

[Jx223]

Browns cleaning house again, fire Mike Pettine, GM Ray Farmer

 

Definitely not surprised by the Pettine/Farmer firings. I think that the main reasons Pettine was fired was because of the team's losing record and how poorly the team played as a whole this year. The defense played terribly several times this year, and Pettine had clock management issues as well. He didn't seem to be the most inspiring of coaches. Plus he didn't try and develop some of the younger players on the team like Justin Gilbert (#8 pick of the 2014). Gilbert had like 50 snaps for the year, and there were some players that weren't that good playing ahead of him. Pettine seemed to have favorites, and didn't always seem interested in putting the best players on the field.

 

Farmer made some pretty poor draft picks and passed over getting the Browns a WR, even knowing that Josh Gordon was going to be suspended. He let people like Odell Beckham, Jr and Sammy Watkins sit on the board. Plus he acquired Dwayne Bowe and was paying him 9 million dollars to basically do nothing. Dwayne Bowe barely played this year.

 

Also it seems like Johnny wants out of Cleveland. I would rather he just flat out asked to be released, than to do what he is doing right now. I don't think he's happy in CLE and there have been reports for a while now that he wants out. I wonder if CLE will cut or maybe try to trade him. I did think he had some trade value. I think he's shown he can play at the league and can at the very least be a viable backup. Maybe eventually a starter. Maybe the Browns will end up cutting him soon. Haslam seems like he's ready to move on from him. I do hope that Johnny ends up getting himself together, I would like to see him be successful.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Jx223

[shoregirl]

He's basically holding his breath/ throwing a temper tantrum until he get what he wants, I don't think acting like a petulant toddler should be rewarded. IN the long run its better for the team to get rid of him somehow but it ducks that means they are giving into him.

[pennben]

Tomsula needed to be gone.    There were rumors he was Baalke's inside source under Harbaugh.   It is known that during HC interviews after Harbaugh was forced out the interviewees were told they HAD to keep Tomsula as DC.   Since HCs prefer to pick their own staff that was a no go.   With no one with a brain wanting the job, it fell to Tomsula.   Solely because he was loyal. 

 

I'm not sure it was because he was "loyal", unless you mean loyal to ownership above all others.  I see so many on sports sites bemoaning his fate, but I think he did what he did to jump ahead in line and then he jumped over the level at which he was competent.  I'm sure he's a good guy, but he's a good guy that stabbed others on his way up, didn't look how high he had gotten, and then tripped over himself all the way back down. And he was foolish enough to think that if he licked the boots of Baalke/York on the way up, they would cradle him when he got there as long as necessary.  Whoops!

[xaxat]

So Johnny is trying to get out of Cleveland by sucking, in the most public manner possible, at every possible aspect of being an NFL QB. The same job he apparently wants to do somewhere else.

 

Interesting  strategy.

[pennben]

Right?!

 

I can't explain how much I want his "strategy" to blow up in his face.

[Jx223]

So Johnny is trying to get out of Cleveland by sucking, in the most public manner possible, at every possible aspect of being an NFL QB. The same job he apparently wants to do somewhere else.

 

Interesting  strategy.

This year I thought he played decently on the football field. He a rough game last week, but I think he showed a lot of growth/improvement as a player. He  is responsible for the majority of CLE's win this year. Granted they only won 3 times, but he won two of those games.  I think that overall QB play this year for CLE was not a problem, I thought that Josh McCown played decently too. If the team had more offensive weapons and the defense had performed better overall, they would have had a better record.  On the field Johnny was fine.

 

The off the field stuff is a bit of mixed bag for me. Some of the stuff that was going was on serious, but other things I think were overblown. Almost all of the things Johnny did off the field was legal. Things considered distracting for the teams sure, but not worse than a lot of the other things players have done over the years. Like the 10 second video of him rapping in his basement, with one other person around on Christmas. That is the type of thing that I think Pettine really should not have lingered heavily on at least not in public with the media. (I think that questions about that is the type of thing you move on from quickly and then you can address it in house if you have an issue with it.)

 

I think he should have went "Belichick" on that subject as well as some other things regarding Johnny. I didn't care much for the way that Pettine handled things regarding Johnny, but I don't really hold it against him. I think he was in a rough spot. A more seasoned coach could have handled things better.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2016 by Jx223

[benteen]

Tom Coughlin deserves to leave on his own terms but I do think it's time for a change.  I hate saying that but the last four years have really shown why that is the case.  I've watched almost every Giants game these past four years and it's been the same story.

 

I think if Coughlin goes, Jerry Reese should go as well.  He's been living off of that first-year draft of his forever.  He's the man most responsible for destroying the Giants once-vaunted defense.

[yourpointis]

Chip Kelly reaches out to the 49ers

 

Chip Kelly wants to keep coaching in the NFL, and he’s letting other teams know that he’s interested.

Kelly has reached out to the 49ers to tell them that he’d like to coach them, Adam Schefter of ESPN reports.

One of the things that could make Kelly an interesting candidate in San Francisco is that his offense could be a good fit for the skill set of Colin Kaepernick, who once looked like the future of the franchise but was benched this season. If 49ers owner Jed York and General Manager Trent Baalke think Kelly is the coach who could get Kaepernick back on track, that would make Kelly a strong candidate.

 

On the other hand, Kelly was a disaster in 2015 in Philadelphia. It wouldn’t be surprising if the 49ers give Kelly a polite, “Thanks but no thanks,” given his results last year. The 49ers announced yesterday that they fired Jim Tomsula after one season, meaning they’re now looking for their third coach in as many years.

 

[merylinkid]

Because what the 49ers need is another egomaniac head coach who wants total roster control.   At least Harbaugh produced results.

[ganesh]

So everyone knew Manziel might have a problem with alcohol, including his own father, when he was drafted, yet did absolutely nothing to give him the help he needed? And then threw him under the bus when said problems arose. How is that a wise investment?

 

Almost all of the things Johnny did off the field was legal. Things considered distracting for the teams sure, but not worse than a lot of the other things players have done over the years.

 

 

Taking any serious problems aside, sometimes 23 y/o kids act like dumb kids. Just because you sign a pro contract doesn't automatically grow you up. This kind of reminds me when people would rail on and on about what an awful person Terrell Owens was. What with all the DUIs, gun charges, and abuse of women. Oh, wait. 

[mojoween]

Aww! I don't care if I knew it was coming, and that this season was such a disaster, but knowing it's 100% true doesn't make it any easier to say good-bye to Coughlin.

Godspeed, Patriot killer.

[Bastet]

Yes, it's rather odd to find myself sitting here feeling so sad about a decision I can't really disagree with.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Bastet

[FuriousStyles]

I didnt think I was going to get so emotional seeing Coughlin go. Man, what a classy classy guy. And yeah, the team has been a disaster the last few years, but I wont put all the blame on him. Especially this year where having a successful season and easily winning the division came down to 5 or 6 plays. The players just didnt make those plays. To me, anyone other than Sean Payton is a downgrade.

Johnny Manziel is a joke. IMO, him being 21, 22 is not an excuse or a reason for his stupidity. Plenty of players come into professional sports and dont act like him. Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota, Andrew Luck, and the list goes on all have been model players since entering the league and throughout their college careers. You can be 40 years old and still be an ass.

Johnny Manziel is just another entitled rich kid who's spoiled rotten and couldn't care less about anyone but himself. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. If he didnt want the responsibility of being a professional, then he shouldnt have declared for the draft. Stay in school, and live off daddy's money.

With that said, I actually hope he does get what he wants. I hope the Browns do release him. But then I also hope nobody picks him up. And he's forced to go play in Canada or retire, or just go away in general. I'd rather watch the circus that is Tim Tebow than Manziel.

[kissedbyarose]

Sad day for this Giants fan :(

[roamyn]

I was pissed when the Browns dumped hometown boy Brian Hoyer, who did a decent job, so firing Farmer makes me happy.

I'd like to dig up Art Modell and kick him in his (now non-existent) balls for destroying the Browns.

[ganesh]

Being young and dumb isn't an excuse. Or they're just jerks. Expecting literally everyone who signs a pro football contract to instantly become a consummate professional is unreasonable, especially when there's red flags all over the place. Investing money in a top draft pick and not providing them with the resources to succeed is simply short sighted and why the organization is not a winner. Yeah, lots of people do step right into being a professional. Some can't handle the stress or expectations. Some have legit problems, and maybe with a little help, can become a good pro. They just can't do it all on their own. 

But seriously, if someone has a legitimate mental health or substance abuse issue, and you don't help them, that's partly on you too. 

 

Did the Cowboys have someone basically following around Dez Bryant, waking him up on time, etc.? Pacman Jones was already discussed. I don't see why this isn't nearly the same thing, and even more serious, if the guy is an alcoholic. 

[Rick Kitchen]

I was pissed when the Browns dumped hometown boy Brian Hoyer, who did a decent job, so firing Farmer makes me happy.

I'd like to dig up Art Modell and kick him in his (now non-existent) balls for destroying the Browns.

 

Modell had nothing to do with the existing Browns, blame that on the expansion and their new owners.

[mojoween]

There was a picture of Coughlin online that said he was one of 13 head coaches with multiple SB titles and while I came up with 13 names, I gave two coaches multiple wins when they only have one, and the two names I didn't think of I would have been here from now until February and wouldn't have come up with them. And they are from the same state, which wouldn't have helped me.

Of course, since I then went down the rabbit hole of googling Super Bowl stats, it amuses me that the NFC East has 12 wins out of 49...and Philly has none. You can even throw the St. Louis Cardinals in there from the old division alignment, and the number does not change.

[nowandlater]

George R.R. Martin is sad...http://grrm.livejournal.com/466305.html

I looked at Coughlin's win-loss total...and it's like his teams are either really good or really bad.

[FuriousStyles]

Being young and dumb isn't an excuse. Or they're just jerks. Expecting literally everyone who signs a pro football contract to instantly become a consummate professional is unreasonable, especially when there's red flags all over the place. Investing money in a top draft pick and not providing them with the resources to succeed is simply short sighted and why the organization is not a winner. Yeah, lots of people do step right into being a professional. Some can't handle the stress or expectations. Some have legit problems, and maybe with a little help, can become a good pro. They just can't do it all on their own.

But seriously, if someone has a legitimate mental health or substance abuse issue, and you don't help them, that's partly on you too.

Did the Cowboys have someone basically following around Dez Bryant, waking him up on time, etc.? Pacman Jones was already discussed. I don't see why this isn't nearly the same thing, and even more serious, if the guy is an alcoholic.

The reason why Im not sympathizing with Manziel anymore is because he's doing everything but help himself. I actually *was* rooting for him when he went to rehab and soon after when he was contrite and apologetic. But why should an organization invest more money and more time into a player who's not getting it? When a player doesnt get it, its not called helping, its called enabling. Sometimes the best thing to do for a player like that is to cut them loose. I think the first person who would agree with that is Cris Carter.

[Ohwell]

Speaking of Chris Carter, I do get tired of him being dragged out on shows like Mike & Mike whenever there's a discussion about an athlete having a drinking problem.  I get it, he speaks from experience, but I don't have to hear his story over and over. 

Edited January 4, 2016 by Ohwell

[benteen]

Thanks for the incredible run, Coach Coughlin!

 

Although I think it was time, I'm sorry to see it go and I wish it didn't have to happen this way.  Jerry Reese has no business still being the GM of this team if Coughlin has to go.  THAT is a laziness on the part of the Mara family, who are some of the best owners in the NFL.

Edited January 4, 2016 by benteen

[ganesh]

I was speaking to a larger problem. However, it was well-known iirc at draft time that Manziel was potentially a problem drinker. Not addressing it from the get go was the failure on the organization's part. Now they've wasted all that money on him and got like 2 wins for it. If it's actually a serious issue, telling a player to 'grow up' isn't going to work and no 23 y/o is going to admit they have a serious problem with drinking. Let alone someone with that level of fame. 

 

Yeah, so Philly cut Carter a long time ago because of something similar. It's still the same problem. He was able to overcome his problems. Good for him. How many couldn't? The organization still didn't do anything to help him either. So they got rid of a hall of fame player because. Why? But it's ok. The Eagles are a class organization with a history of championships since then, so no loss I guess. 

[merylinkid]

Now here's really surprising news today -- Pagano and Colts reach a deal on a contract extension.    Good grief.    Irsay really has lost his damn mind.    I hope they enjoy missing the playoffs again next year.

[BitterApple]

Now here's really surprising news today -- Pagano and Colts reach a deal on a contract extension. Good grief. Irsay really has lost his damn mind. I hope they enjoy missing the playoffs again next year.

Wow. Personally I think they're afraid that letting Pagano go makes them look like dicks because he survived cancer. Pagano is long past his expiration date in Indianapolis.

[Fukui San]

Grigson is the main problem in Indy.  Mediocre drafts, putting a lot of eggs in old skill position players, and meddling with the coaching. The fact that both Grigson AND Pagano are back is mind boggling. Andrew Luck must be asking himself "What is going on?"

 

Hard Knocks Indy next year or we riot.

[stealinghome]

I don't follow Indy closely, but I would agree that Grigson seems to be the problem more than Pagano. It's nuts that they kept him--let alone both of them especially when they clearly can't play nicely together.

Andrew Luck's countdown to free agency begins...NOW.

[yourpointis]

Rams File for Relocation

 

 

“The St. Louis Rams informed the National Football League today that the Rams propose to relocate to the greater Los Angeles metropolitan area. The relocation would be effective for the 2016 NFL League Year.”

 

[merylinkid]

The Chargers and Raiders also filed.   The League meeting is next week.  The League is going to have to put up or shut up.   For years they have used the threat of a team leaving to extort public money from cities to build new stadiums.   Now the cities have said "Yeah, right, you'll never actually move."  If the League ever wants to use that pressure again, they have to let at least one of the teams move.

[pennben]

I think the league wants two teams in LA, so I don't think that's the issue here.  It's figuring out which two teams get there out of the three.  If I were to guess, based on what I've read, Raiders and Chargers are the two, although it seems as though the Rams owner will put up a big fight.

[Snowprince]

All 3 teams have called L.A home, with the Chargers having been born there in 1960. With the Raiders looking to be on the upswing and having been there most recently, it seems to me they would have the most fan support which will sell the most season tickets/PSL's. The question seems to me which team(s) is willing to play in the Coliseum or Rose Bowl until the new stadium is built, which stadium proposal prevails with the city council and which team(s) is willing to put up the most money to contribute to the cost of it's construction. The L.A City Council is very wary of putting up public funds and wants any team coming in to play in the Coliseum for both financial and historical reasons. Should be interesting to see how this all shakes out, who's bluffing as a final Hail Mary negotiating tactic and who's REALLY serious about leaving their local fanbase and moving.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Snowprince

[nowandlater]

Now here's really surprising news today -- Pagano and Colts reach a deal on a contract extension.    Good grief.    Irsay really has lost his damn mind.    I hope they enjoy missing the playoffs again next year.

 

Looking at his record: He's gone 11-5 for the first three seasons (including one where he was out most of the season because of cancer).

 

And he didn't have a losing season this year, despite losing his starting QB and despite playing his finale with 2 QBs signed a few days before.

 

I mean, why would you fire a guy like that?

[mojoween]

Yeah I didn't really understand all of the calls for Pagano's head but then again I lost interest in Indy when Peyton left.

I love how all year the Giants were eviscerated, rightfully so, but now it's all sunshine and roses with love for Tom and talk about how stable and well-run the organization is.

[BitterApple]

Isn't the Coliseum falling apart? Or am I thinking of someplace else? It's going to suck for whichever team gets stuck playing there until they can haggle out the details and built a new stadium.

[Fukui San]

Grigson and Pagano reportedly hate each other and were both leaking damaging stuff to the media about the other. Namely that Grigson insisted on Pagano playing his acquisitions to make the moves look better (Trent Richarson, anyone? Also Josh Cribbs who had a key fumble last season.) despite the fact that the acquisitions sucked and looked worse with more playing time. Pep Hamilton, the OC to begin the year, was Grigson's guy and reportedly reported to Grigson, not Pagano. The offense sucked and he got fired. Given that they were the sexy pick to make the Super Bowl for some reason I can't fathom and they underachieved, it was assumed that Pagano would go. Or that Pagano would win the power struggle and Grigson would go.  Having them both stay without any apparent mending of fences or adjustment in the working situation like Chip Kelly got last year by moving the GM to another position is unfathomable. Someone should come in to say that this is a bad marriage not worth saving. 

[basiltherat]

Maybe Indy was afraid that Pagano would get snatched up by another team and win with them, so they decided to keep an asset rather than give it to a rival.

[yourpointis]

The Browns just hired a baseball executive to run their team, and it could change football forever

 

The Cleveland Browns made a surprising move on Tuesday when they announced the hiring of Paul DePodesta as Chief Strategy Officer. DePodesta's previous title was the New York Mets' Vice President of Player Development and Amateur Scouting. DePodesta not only helped build the Mets team that went to the World Series this year, he was a key figure in the Oakland A's "Moneyball" team.

 

According to ESPN's Chris Mortensen and Ed Werder, the only two people above DePodesta are Browns president Alec Scheiner and owner Jimmy Haslam — he'll work above the newly hired executive vice president of football operations, Sashi Brown. Mortensen and Werder report that DePodesta will have a strong say in personnel decisions.

 

[mojoween]

Alternatively, because it's the Browns, he'll be back in baseball next year.

The newspaper said that Coughlin was the third longest tenured coach and without looking it up, besides Belichick, I can't decide if it's Tomlin, Payton or McCarthy who has been with their franchise longer than 13 years.

[Fukui San]

Without looking it up, it was McCarthy, right?  The Chin coached the Steelers in the Super Bowl against Seattle, IIRC, and Payton acquired Brees early in his tenure which wasn't 13 years ago. There aren't any other choices I can think of.

 

Re: The Browns. Are they trying for a sequel to Moneyball?

Edited January 5, 2016 by Fukui San

[nowandlater]

Alternatively, because it's the Browns, he'll be back in baseball next year.

The newspaper said that Coughlin was the third longest tenured coach and without looking it up, besides Belichick, I can't decide if it's Tomlin, Payton or McCarthy who has been with their franchise longer than 13 years.

Andy Reid?

 

Although McCArthy and Payton became head coaches in the same year, McCarthy is in his 10th season and Payton is in his 9th season (thanks to that year off).

 

 

What do y'all think of the Jim Nance story. He refused to acknowledge the allegations against Manning. But it turns out, they share a connection...

 

http://deadspin.com/peyton-manning-shares-a-rep-with-jim-nantz-who-wont-me-1751103050

Edited January 5, 2016 by nowandlater