S12.E13: Top 10 Perform + Elimination

[cali1981]

I loved seeing Kayla (rare supporter here) again and I thought the routine by Comfort and Virgil was fun and adorable.

Count me in as a Kayla fan.  To this day, I think that she was a better dancer than Jeannine and should have won.

[ajay]

I loved a lot of the routines last night. Haylee may have been a little off in spots, but her charisma carried that number and I really enjoyed it. And I loved Virgil's number. I've become a big fan of Christopher Scott. I did wonder if they paired him with Comfort because of his size. With both Comfort and Jasmine performing, my inclination would have been to swap them. I liked Megz's dance too--I really don't want her to go home next week. Gaby killed it. The Bollywood didn't do much for me--I felt like she was sloppy in spots. The contemporary stuff all runs together for me at this point. Though Edson was good, I kept trying to figure out who his partner was because she was amazing. (I fast forward through most of the show.) And when Cat said it was Jaimie, I thought "of course."

 

I'm hoping Derek and Jaja go home next week. Gaby, Haylee, and Jim are much more versatile. And I thought Jaja stood out in a bad way in the group performance. She's delightful and amazing at what she does, but she doesn't seem to be growing much. 

 

I'm wondering if Megz was dancing after an injury or against doctor's orders.

 

I do love seeing how much better the All-Stars are than they were in their seasons. It makes me wonder how much the competition wore them out and how much is just more time and practice.

[phoenix780]

Came in 4th last year, auditioned with a black fedora and  did a stripper dance that made Uncle Nigel salivate..  I don't consider someone who came in 4th just a year ago an "All Star", do you?

Thanks for clarifying that for me!  I would consider her an All-Star if I'd remembered her.  Has she done a lot since or something? 

 

The geisha-esque/ninja routine- so if it wasn't a geisha but something else...were they supposed to be battling?  I think I totally missed the point (wouldn't be the first time).

 

I also love seeing the All-Stars and how much they change.  Kayla was a non factor for me in her season despite an awesome routine (Addiction).  Last night she was amazing, imho.  And while I loved Comfort before, she came back with a kind of...for me it's a mature sexuality, not too overt, that really amplifies her performance.  Shame we can't get a true All-Stars season- I'm assuming the best ones are all working too much for that to happen.  Plus, y'know, cancellation looms over a show this old.

[cali1981]

 

I'm wondering if Megz was dancing after an injury or against doctor's orders.

 

 

It would be hard to imagine the show runners allowing any contestant to perform after the docs said no.  The liability issues would be fierce if the dancer suffered a more serious injury.  I'm sure that the show's standard contract makes it very clear that no means no when one of the it's staff or consulting physicians says it.

[shortpplfedup]

For the person upthread (I've lost the name) there's no such thing as 'pure Bollywood', Bollywood is an invented mishmash style that includes elements from many other dance styles.

 

Still mad at losing Yorelis, and double mad to lose Edson this week. WHO is voting for Derek? Kid is the definition of bland. Also, was this 'useless stage furniture ruining mostly good routines' week? Next week's bottom 4: Derek, Hailee, Neptune and Megz, with Derek and Megz going home. Also, here are some things I don't understand.

 

1. I get that Chris Scott loves working in the juxtaposition of soft music with hard movement, but it would really be great if he would stop fighting the groove of these old school tunes he chooses for duets and choreograph into it rather than fighting it with staccato movement.

2. You get two great movers like Megz and Marko, a GREAT song for big, stage-eating dancing like 'Canned Heat' and then...chain your dance to a bench in the middle of the stage. A rare fail from Ray Leeper.

3. Why choreograph an all-star/contestant dance that doesn't showcase the contestant? Edson's a pretty great dancer but Travis' choreography was all about Jamie. Edson needed to be strong and supportive, which is difficult yes, but he got no wow factor out of that dance.

4. Jasmine overpops in hip hop routines. The best parts of animation and popping are that rubberband factor, the snap and bounce back, and that requires control that I don't see from her. Also that routine just needed more content and movement. Neptune deserved more.

 

I missed the team routines this week. And I predict the last 4 standing will be JaJa, Virgil, Hailee or Jim and Gaby.

 

Also, I watch Empire religiously, but I really didn't realise just how much great pop music they've made in a short space of time.

Edited August 18, 2015 by shortpplfedup

[realdancemom]

I wished Jim had Jaimie or Alex because Jessica is just blah.  The All Star is supposed to be better than the contestant.  I also thought Kayla was awesome but she's too tall for Jim.  With Kayla there, I didn't even notice Derek.  I agree that Edson was just a forklift for Jaimie. 

 

Why does Brandon and Alex have to come back to do disco and Bollywood?  We need all stars to do those routines but I would also like to see them do their own styles.  I was hoping for an Alex/Jim ballet.  Alex was beautiful doing Bollywood but I'm always scared he is going to snap his Achilles tendon again.

[Tasya]

I liked most of the show last night. I keep reading that Jaja is overpraised but for me that is Megz. I was a huge fan back at the start of the show, but I feel as if she's peaked at this point. She seems as if she has zero flexibility and just comes across as really stiff. 

 

I wanted to love Comfort and Virgil but the dance just didn't go with the music. It was cute but it could have been closer to Misty Blue with a different song. Neptune and Jasmine had moments but something just didn't "finish" their routine for me. I kept waiting for that one moment where I would be like woah!, and it never came. 

 

Loved Jaja and ALEX the most. 

[St. Claire]

I predict that next week's injury report will include Paula have been eaten alive by that necklace. Good gracious.

 

This is only my second season as a regular viewer, so I'm not familiar with most of the All Stars. I enjoyed the Comfort-Virgil duet; it just had me smiling like mad and I thought some of the moves (that backward crab walk!) were fantastic to watch. I wanted to like Jasmine-Neptune, but it fell a bit short for me. I wanted to see more of Edson dancing in his duet (y'know, since he's the actual contestant); it felt way too Jamie-heavy for me. I'm not a huge Bollywood fan, but thought Jaja and Alex both brought a lot to the routine.  

[OakGoblinFly]

I thought having all-stars would make the show better - it didn't (well, not that much).

 

I loved seeing Marco, Comfort, and Alex again ..... so much so that I forgot who they were paired with.

 

I wished that Kathryn was paired with Edson (or even Jim) - I thought that Jessica appeared heavy in her movements detracting from the dance.

 

I only like the Bollywood number (only because I could not stop watching Alex) and the Comfort hip hop.

 

Honestly, I don't remember the contestant routines much - they were so overshadowed by the all-stars (even the lesser ones) showcasing their limitations in technique, performance, and charisma.

[luvthepros]

..........I do love seeing how much better the All-Stars are than they were in their seasons. It makes me wonder how much the competition wore them out and how much is just more time and practice.

Could be maturity. Most of the All Stars were youngins in their respective seasons.

[treeofdreams]

At this point all the contemporary routines look the same to me.  A lot of flailing around, torturous body positions, and the leg stretched, here's-my-crotch movement that has become a staple with choreographers for both men and women.  I appreciate that they want to take advantage of a dancer's flexibility, but it is not a pretty sight.  And they use it way too often.

Edited August 18, 2015 by treeofdreams

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Dropping Like Fly Girls / Another week, another injury. At this point Danny hopes one of the contestants is actually an undercover reporter working on an exposé of safety violations on this show.

[Terrafamilia]

I thought they overpraised Derek this week. There were awkward spots and he just didn't bring teh sexy.

On the other hand, Edson put his inner cheerleader back on the shelf after letting it out again last week as well as bringing teh sexy (a first for him) in his solo.

I did like Virgil and Comfort but the piece seemed a bit too fluffy for me. Megz and Marko's was even more so.

 

I swear, at the very, very last instant of the broadcast it looked as though Nigel was homing in with an open-mouth assault on JJ. I had to rewind several times to comfort myself with the realization that it was just a very unflattering angle.

[haloangelgirl]

So I'm new to replying on this forum, but I just wanted to say ALEX FREAKING WONG! and there was a contestant with him? Sorry, didn't notice!

[rlc]

Loved Gabby and Joshua. I could watch them all day (with some Alex Wong thrown in for fun). Megz is a good performer, but her moves aren't sharp enough. This was the first week I felt that Jaja lived up to the praise they always throw at her.

[Rahul]

Most of these weeks routines were entirely forgettable. I have little to say because I literally cannot remember most of the dances. The most memorable thing about this weeks episode were the outrageous costume choices--Frankenstein and his bride, ninja geisha (wtf), etc. I was bored by most of the choreography.

What I can remember...

Hailee overdid the facial expressions.ni felt like she was mugging a bit in her Broadway routine.

Edison's Travis Wall routine was awful. He was just a lifting prop. Very little actual dancing there. I felt similarly about his solo showing limited dance content, though it really did show off his athleticism and all the tricks he can do.

I wish there had been group street and stage routines. Surely they could have cut Derulo's superfluous and redundant commentary to make time for them.

 Someone needs to tell me if Hailee has a wart on the end of her nose?  WTH?

 

 

Not a wart and I'm sure she's well aware, but that raised mole is distracting as hell. Poor thing.

 

[rollerblade]

Why does Brandon and Alex have to come back to do disco and Bollywood?  We need all stars to do those routines but I would also like to see them do their own styles.  I was hoping for an Alex/Jim ballet.  Alex was beautiful doing Bollywood but I'm always scared he is going to snap his Achilles tendon again.

 

Alex -wanted- to do the Bollywood (with Amy in S10) because he missed out on the dance during his season. Not sure about this season though.

 

I think they will probably want bring back Eliana to pair with Jim in a ballet. Wonder if she's available.

[MomKat]

Actually, Jessica came in third last year, not fourth. I only remember this because Zach came in fourth, and I was shocked that he didn't make it to the top two.

[dcalley]

I really liked the top 10 (9) routine but thought Jaja was the weakest of the women. However, I liked her solo the best. In the top 10, I couldn't figure out who two of the guys were. Edson eventually came to me, but Derek was a mystery. He's so forgettable. I couldn't pick him out of a lineup of one.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I love Warren Carlyle. He was so cute after Hailee and Brendon's performance. He seemed genuinely excited and proud (unlike some of the other regular choreographers who just look like they are there to pat themselves on the back). And yay for regular double pirouettes in passé (I feel like when pirouettes are in routines, they are usually in coupé - see Megz and Marko's routine)! They are a very basic skill that we don't see enough of. When was the last time we saw a contestant do four double pirouettes in one routine? Unfortunately, Hailee's pirouettes were not all clean. The shoes might have been a contributing factor because your center of gravity is very different when you're wearing heels so trying to plié in preparation can feel weird if you aren't used to dancing in heels. The one pirouette she did in her solo (barefoot) was much cleaner. And yay for Brendon coming back!

 

Hilariously, the song credit for Derek's dance was put on the screen during the bumper coming back from the commercial. I wasn't crazy about Derek and Kayla's dance. The choreography wasn't interesting to me and good lord, Kayla's costume was straight out of the Naughty Maid costume section at Party City. Does this show not have a costume budget anymore? I guess on the plus side, I like Kayla's current hair color better. Who the hell is voting for Derek? His solo was such a competition dance - trick, trick, trick, trick, gymnastics, trick, trick, trick, gymnastics.

 

I wonder what the show will do about the routine JJ was supposed to do this week. Since we didn't see it, will they recycle it for someone else next week? Since she still wasn't cleared to dance in this week's episode, maybe it's best that she was eliminated. I do give her credit for moving to California to pursue her dream and then taking more dance classes in multiple styles when she realized she wasn't picking up choreography quickly enough.

 

I wasn't crazy about Comfort in her dance with Virgil. I felt like she was too over the top while Virgil was very chill.

 

Ha, I love that Ray Leeper had a few little nods to the Center Stage finale in his jazz routine (because who can hear Canned Heat without thinking of that routine?). While it's true that Megz should work on her flexibility, realistically there's only so much stretching she can do over the next three weeks. It's not like she's going to be able to get her splits in such a short amount of time (let alone a center split leap) so it seemed like superfluous "advice" from Nigel. You know what would have been more practical advice? Telling her to point her toes. Is this the first time that the show mentioned she auditioned back in S5? I liked that, like JJ, she took it as a sign to train more.

 

Sorry, Travis, I don't believe that you choreographed this routine to challenge Edson. This was more a showpiece for Jaime. For as much as Travis talked up this piece as being challenging and a chance for Edson to grow, it looked like a typical Travis Wall piece. But I guess thanks for giving us shirtless Edson one last time?

 

I thought that Neptune and Jasmine's Frankenstein routine was hindered by the costumes. I think the movements would have looked crisper and cleaner with different outfits. I really didn't like that lift with the leg earlier in the routine. It looked kind of loose and sloppy. Despite my complaints, this was one of the better routines of the night.

 

Jim's dancing was lovely as usual but I didn't love his routine. I'm not sure how much of that was the choreography and how much of it was Jessica (who wasn't bad, for the record).

 

Jaja seemed a little awkward at the beginning of her Bollywood routine but once the dancing really started, she was very clean and precise. But more importantly, ALEX WONG! Ugh, Nigel's lame Whoopi joke followed by Nigel patting himself on the back for having a dancer from the Czech Republic doing a Bollywood dance. STFU.

 

I felt bad for JJ having to smile as she got offed right after having to sit through the cringeworthy Japanese stereotype shitshow of that ninja/geisha number.  Not that it's a first for this show, but that was particularly bad.

So much word to this.

 

Gabby was costumed more in a wuxia (Chinese period action film) style rather than geisha. (No wuxia costume would show that much leg, but the hair definitely was Chinese.) That being said, it was truly a cultural hodge-podge. And I'm fine with that.

I'm not fine with it. It's bad enough to have them have a geisha dance (What's next? Native American headdresses?) but to have them then use a Chinese costume is just really ignorant and offensive. China and Japan are two completely different countries and cultures. They are not interchangeable. If you are going to be un-PC enough to do a geisha dance, at least do your homework and make sure to use a Japanese costume. That's like saying oh, we're doing a French can can dance with the girls dressed as leprachauns. What? Europe is one big blob of white people. It's all the same! Then we're going to do a flamenco dance set to the Mexican Hat Dance song while wearing sombreros! Or while dressed as Che Guavara! Because they speak Spanish and have dark hair in all those countries so you can just swap one for another!

 

I wish they have paired the solo dance with their respective partner dance. ie: Watch Gabby video package, then her solo tap, followed by her partner dance with all star Joshua. The way they do it now felt so disconnect, like the solo dancer is an opening act to someone else.

They can't do that because the dancers need time to change their costumes and hair/makeup. Even in my high school dance shows, we had to look at who was in each dance and then spread out the dances so that no one had back to back dances (everyone had at least one dance to change for their next routine, but we tried to give people at least two dances to change if possible).

 

wtf did JLo mean when she said the winner will "get a chance" to perform in her Vegas show?

Given what happened with Benji and the Celine Dion prize, I think it's just the show's way of saying that the winner will be offered a spot in the show but they don't have to take it.

 

Why does Brandon and Alex have to come back to do disco and Bollywood?  We need all stars to do those routines but I would also like to see them do their own styles.  I was hoping for an Alex/Jim ballet.  Alex was beautiful doing Bollywood but I'm always scared he is going to snap his Achilles tendon again.

Yes to all of this. Props to Alex for being brave enough to do Bollywood after his injury, but I want to see him do ballet, especially with Jim! But I would guess that Uncle Nigel is still trying to figure out how to do a male-male ballet duet that's totally masculine and not in the least bit gay.

 

I felt sorry for the dancers having to choreograph their first solos of the season to Empire music because most people come with pre-choreographed solos that are set to specific music. Having to use new music means you really have to choreograph a new routine or majorly rework an existing solo to make it fit the new music.

 

Dee Caspary knew it and gave Jim a lot of solo work in this routine that should have had partnering.  I saw tentativeness, very little in the way of lifts or leveraging and a little sloppiness in transitions.

I'm actually annoyed that the show has created the expectation that every routine needs to have a ton of lifts and partner tricks. You can dance with someone without any of that and I would prefer that they take out the liftapalooza (which will also greatly reduce the chance of injuries) and let the dancers concentrate on dancing rather than all these crazy lifts.

 

the leg stretched, here's-my-crotch movement

Hey, that's the HMV (here's my vagina) move (TM TWoP forum)!

[luvthepros]

At this point all the contemporary routines look the same to me.  A lot of flailing around, torturous body positions, and the leg stretched, here's-my-crotch movement that has become a staple with choreographers for both men and women.  I appreciate that they want to take advantage of a dancer's flexibility, but it is not a pretty sight.  And they use it way too often.

I miss ballroom, especially Latin! Sigh.

[Carrots4]

It was a little sad to see JJ eliminated, since she was an early favourite of mine, but realistically it was her time to go. Still not sure how Derek is still in this, as aside from a few dramatic moves in the group dances he does really fade into the background.

 

Am curious if, as a dancer, it's easier to be eliminated after an injury (like JJ), or after a great performance (like Edson). Is it frustrating to get booted after one just nailed it, or is it preferable to have one last chance to show off one's skill? At any rate, at least they both get to go on tour, so that's some consolation.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think it's difficult either way. I had something similar to JJ's situation happen to me and I remember wishing that I could have gone out with a bang instead of not having one last chance to give it my all. But I can see how frustrating it would be to have a great performance and then get cut the same night.

 

Off the top of my head, I don't recall JJ having any standout dances so I wonder what they will have her perform on tour. As I was sitting here thinking about it, the only routine I could remember her doing was last week's pinup dance. The judges didn't love it though so will it be included on the tour? If so, which other girl from the top ten will they bring in to replace Kate? Aside from her Argentine tango (which was supposed to be with Derek), her other dances were with people who didn't make it to the top ten (jazz with Marissa and Moises, jazz with Edson and Yoralis). I guess they will definitely have her "meet the top 20" hip hop with Megz and Neptune.

[MiseryIndex]

This whole format is strange. I don't know why they think street can go against stage in choreographed routines if treated evenly.

Thr format of the show was never a problem. Street dancers who were good enough made it to the top and occasionally won.

[allypenguin]

I'm not fine with it. It's bad enough to have them have a geisha dance (What's next? Native American headdresses?) but to have them then use a Chinese costume is just really ignorant and offensive. China and Japan are two completely different countries and cultures. They are not interchangeable. If you are going to be un-PC enough to do a geisha dance, at least do your homework and make sure to use a Japanese costume. That's like saying oh, we're doing a French can can dance with the girls dressed as leprachauns. What? Europe is one big blob of white people. It's all the same! Then we're going to do a flamenco dance set to the Mexican Hat Dance song while wearing sombreros! Or while dressed as Che Guavara! Because they speak Spanish and have dark hair in all those countries so you can just swap one for another!

 

Yes. This 100%. Never mind the fact that it was just gross inaccurate stereotypes as usual when it comes to Japan. It's really a shame because I thought it was a great dance, and that they didn't have to be a "geisha" and a "ninja" to make it edgy or exotic or whatever they were going for, the spirit of the dance would've been fine if they said they were just warriors or battling or something. Or they could've just made it about the dance and not have a story at all.

[Jesse]

I felt bad for JJ having to smile as she got offed right after having to sit through the cringeworthy Japanese stereotype shitshow of that ninja/geisha number.  Not that it's a first for this show, but that was particularly bad.  

Not only that, but her last performance was as a WWII-era pinup! You know, the ladies that got painted on the war planes in our war against Japan?? Yikes.

[mojoween]

It was Gaby's makeup that did it for me. Not only was it a terrible idea, it also looked atrocious. Also I didn't get the little robe with the hooker boots concept.

[BensBritches]

I fell asleep during most of the show when it aired, so I had to rewatch last night before I posted.  Nothing moved me at all.  Nothing has really moved me at all.  I don't have a horse in this race... I always liked JaJa, but she seems hammy (is that a word) in so many of routines.  It seems that the judges love it, but it bugs me.  I find that I focus on her facial expressions at times more than her movement.  

 

Like someone above, I had no idea who Edson was in the group dance.  Other than Neptune, Virgil and Jim, none of the male dancers this season have stood out to me.  But then again, most of the female ones haven't either!

 

I would like to know what SYTYCD's actual definition of "Street Dancer" is... because based on the packages we saw last night, it appears that all of the contestants have been "trained" and many on the street side have trained in styles outside of hip hop (and any sub-genre of so-called street dancing like popping and locking).  This is not a competition between untrained and trained dancers, or dancers who free-style vs those who do choreography, so what is the difference? JJ noted that she had pretty much trained in every style imaginable... so what makes her street? Is it that she can tut and Jim can't?

Is this the first time that the show mentioned she (Megz) auditioned back in S5? I liked that, like JJ, she took it as a sign to train more. 

 

I think so because this threw me.  I recalled a brother/sister pair who had been in a car accident who auditioned together, but I'm not sure that was Megz. Did she audition as a hip hop/break dancer?  And as you say, she then went and got more training... so to me, the difference in the two sides of this competition are what style you feel you excel in and not whether you are trained or whether you have done choreography before. The street dancers being able to do well in the "choreography" does not impress me as much as I think Nigel wants it to because they are trained dancers!

[crowceilidh]

 

I'm not fine with it. It's bad enough to have them have a geisha dance (What's next? Native American headdresses?) but to have them then use a Chinese costume is just really ignorant and offensive. China and Japan are two completely different countries and cultures. They are not interchangeable. If you are going to be un-PC enough to do a geisha dance, at least do your homework and make sure to use a Japanese costume. That's like saying oh, we're doing a French can can dance with the girls dressed as leprachauns. What? Europe is one big blob of white people. It's all the same! Then we're going to do a flamenco dance set to the Mexican Hat Dance song while wearing sombreros! Or while dressed as Che Guavara! Because they speak Spanish and have dark hair in all those countries so you can just swap one for another!

 

I don't know whether this is amusing or what exact point I am making, but I'd just like to say that as someone who is highly knowledgeable about 18th century Western costume, I get exactly this indignant over the pseudo-historical costuming (I think my time period has been done twice in the history of this show) and the highly inaccurate ideas by which they are accompanied..  And then I say to myself, these people are wearing costumes for theatre. The costumes are meant to convey some meme in the choreographer's head.  There is no intention of authenticity in the choice. Settle down.  I do think it's unfortunate that the choreographer said Geisha and then the costumers did something Chinese, but it is no less inauthentic than nearly any of the costuming choices we see on the show all the time (I'm betting Frankenstein's Monster's bride didn't wear any clothing like that at all).  I sympathize with the indignation, but at the same time, the pseudo-African stuff, the pseudo-Bollywood stuff, the pseudo film noire stuff, the pseudo-street styles, the pseudo.....  on and on.

[haloangelgirl]

I agree with everyone who says that they would kill to see Alex and Jim do a ballet routine..through Brandon into the mix (is he still w/ the Britney Vegas show?) and my head just might explode. As much as I like seeing all the All Stars again (though Jessica, really?) all it does is remind me that I used to love this show so much, and that the more recent seasons haven't really caught my attention. I miss ballroom! Need something to balance out all the contemporary

[Zuleikha]

There is no intention of authenticity in the choice. Settle down.  I do think it's unfortunate that the choreographer said Geisha and then the costumers did something Chinese, but it is no less inauthentic than nearly any of the costuming choices we see on the show all the time

 

IMHO, there is a huge and significant difference between doing an intentional spin on historic European dress and drawing on cultural stereotypes for the primary aesthetic of the dance. Personally, the authenticity of Gaby's costume and makeup is the absolute least of my issues with the concept. While I would have been impressed if they'd been able to get her in authentic geisha clothing, hair, and makeup and found a way to choreograph a hip-hop dance that she could still do despite the restricted movement imposed by an actual geisha kimona, I would still hate the concept of the dance. It was lazy and worse than that, it was incoherent. Nothing about the music or the primary movement suggested Japan, and geisha aren't warriors anyway. The choreographers just used uninspired, stereotypical Japanese characters to do... I'm not really sure what. Add a layer of exotic to try and make their dance pop out? 

 

It's a shame, to me, especially because the choreography was strong and the dancing was strong. The stereotypical imagery was not needed.

 

The pseudo-Bollywood isn't pseudo, by the way. I know Nakul isn't everyone's cup of tea, but his dances are Bollywood. Bollywood is a recognized dance form characterized by the mixing of elements drawn from Classical Indian dance with elements drawn from Western dance forms (more hip hop than ballet in what I've seen), and Nakul is both trained and a cultural insider. The style he choreographs for the show is harmonious with the style that his performance troupe really does. It's just not a style that everyone likes (including me... I live in an area with a high South Asian population so have seen a many community-based Bollywood performances. I generally like them all better than Nakul's choreography, even though the actual dancing is much less polished).

 

Likewise, with Cheesman's African Jazz. That is a dance style that actually exists, characterized by the fusion of jazz with elements of West African dance. Cheesman really is trained and does it, and performance African Jazz by specialists looks decently similar to the choreographies Cheesman does for the show.

 

The other pseudo listed isn't generally related to issues of stereotyping but rather issues of dance skill. In the past, I do remember feeling that certain street dance choreographies veered uncomfortably in that direction but I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head. 

[realdancemom]

Alex -wanted- to do the Bollywood (with Amy in S10) because he missed out on the dance during his season. Not sure about this season though.

 

I think they will probably want bring back Eliana to pair with Jim in a ballet. Wonder if she's available.

Thanks for the info on Alex.  I'm glad that he wanted to try Bollywood since he really does want to learn other dance styles.  He's just so beautiful when he does ballet and so is Jim. 

 

I would love to see Jim and Eliana paired.  Unfortunately, I think Eliana might still be injured.  She was supposed to be one of the pointe dancers in Jason's musical number.  But then she was injured and they had Tiffany do it.  I still shudder at the pointe work in that number. 

[akr]

Who the hell is voting for Derek? His solo was such a competition dance - trick, trick, trick, trick, gymnastics, trick, trick, trick, gymnastics.

I think you just answered the question - little competition dancers who like tricks and gymnastics, and who can have a safe little asexual crush on the only remaining blond dude (because otherwise, why not Edson or Jim or Virgil? (I'm leaving out Neptune only because I find that I really can't ever remember him - the others are pretty distinct to me, albeit in Derek's case, only for occasionally hitting a really amazing split jump or something).

 

I don't mind Derek, I just think he's pretty young and so isn't showing as much emotional range as he may down the road. But of the five male stage dancers, I liked Jim and Moises best, then Darion, and had Derek and Edson sort of tied, with Edson the better partner dancer. I though both Derek and Edson were kept around over Moises simply because they were taller and they wanted some bigger dancers to pair with the women, given that they knew Jim and Virgil were sticking around for the long haul. But Derek and Edson always had that emotional connection with little dance studio and cheerleading kids, I figured.

 

My votes for going home next would be Derek and Neptune (because I still have only a vague idea of who he is), but I can see pretty much anybody but Virgil and Gaby being at risk at this point. Hailee's growing on me but sometimes I don't connect with her emotionally - it can be too technical. 

[treeofdreams]

I wish that occasionally a choreographer would introduce their rehearsal package with something like, This is just dance, no storyline, no dramatic emotional manipulation, just pure dance, pure beauty.

[crowceilidh]

I'm perfectly well aware that there is such a thing as African Jazz - however, the costuming and make-up that is sometimes indulged in is often highly inaccurate (fairly obvious that anything labelled "African" is going to be leaving out a whack of a lot of info) and/or borrowed from completely different cultures, although I've never seen anything on SYTYCD as egregious as the "tribal" offensiveness that goes down on DWTS.  And you can find the dissemination of inaccurate historical ideas to be inoffensive and I can find it to be totally offensive.  It implies that ignorance of history is immaterial and that understanding the history of ideas is for elitist snobs.  

 

Also, I never thought that they were implying that Geisha were warriors.  I thought their idea was that THIS geisha was not actually a geisha, but was instead a deadly warrior disguised as a geisha.  Unfortunately, she was a deadly warrior disguised as something else, either because they are ignorant or they think it doesn't matter.

 

Anyhow, I'm not trying to invalidate your indignation -- I'm just pointing out that your example is merely one of the many kinds of cultural ignorance displayed by the show.

[Anothermi]

I wish that occasionally a choreographer would introduce their rehearsal package with something like, This is just dance, no storyline, no dramatic emotional manipulation, just pure dance, pure beauty.

 

I sympathize with your point. Unfortunately I have a horrible memory of Tyce doing exactly that for Mark and Kherington's 2nd dance in Season 4 Top 10 and in the context of the rest of the show it was completely blah. Full disclosure - I was/am a complete Mark Kanemura fan (but not Kherington) - and because Mark was getting slammed with "you're great with character but not pure dance" critiques I (and many, many other Mark fans) took Tyce's explanation as a moustache twirling take-that-you-character-not-technique vote getter" slam against Mark.  Yes, I realize I was/am being OTT -  but such was the pull of the earlier seasons of this show. <blush>

 

My real point is that, although choreographers like Mia have done dances without stories without the disclaimer that there is no story, it didn't go over well. And story dances became required by TPTB (and/or exploited by choreographers if they didn't want their dance to land their couple in the bottom) UNLESS the show narrative wanted to make some point (Mark isn't a good dancer).

 

So, I think I would be a bit suspicious if a choreographer came out and said: "this is just a dance for movement sake". Having said that, Desmod Richardson and Dwight Rhoden were allowed to not tell stories (as well as most Ballet routines).

Edited August 19, 2015 by Anothermi

[Hana Chan]

IMHO, there is a huge and significant difference between doing an intentional spin on historic European dress and drawing on cultural stereotypes for the primary aesthetic of the dance. Personally, the authenticity of Gaby's costume and makeup is the absolute least of my issues with the concept. While I would have been impressed if they'd been able to get her in authentic geisha clothing, hair, and makeup and found a way to choreograph a hip-hop dance that she could still do despite the restricted movement imposed by an actual geisha kimona, I would still hate the concept of the dance. It was lazy and worse than that, it was incoherent. Nothing about the music or the primary movement suggested Japan, and geisha aren't warriors anyway. The choreographers just used uninspired, stereotypical Japanese characters to do... I'm not really sure what. Add a layer of exotic to try and make their dance pop out? 

 

Having worn a full kimono properly, I'll attest that you really can't dance in it. Hell, you can barely walk in it. And geisha kimonos are especially heavy and only work if you're doing very traditional Japanese dance. Not hip hop.

 

There is a fine line between taking on cultural attributes for a dance before it delves into the territory of mockery. It's one thing if a dance really calls for it (like African Jazz, or any kind of ethnic folk dancing). This is why I don't quibble over white girls decked out in Indian-style garb and bindis when they do Bollywood because it's a costume that's associated with that particular genre. It's no more out of line than it would be to see a girl from India wearing a tutu if she's dancing classical ballet. When Twitch and Josh danced the Kozak, they wore ethnic Russian costumes because it fit the dance and neither of them likely have a drop of Russian blood.

 

I have numerous issues with the pseudo-geisha look they stuck Gaby in. First, there was absolutely nothing remotely Japanese about that costume. As others have pointed out, she looked more like Chung Lee and that goes to the fit of the costume itself, the fabric used is nothing at all that you would see in a proper kimono. The hair was more in a Chinese style (and the ornaments were more Chinese than Japanese). And don't get me started on the makeup. First of all, it was ugly. And trying to paint Gaby's eyes to appear slanted was bordering on blackface treatment. Next, this is how proper geisha look. These are maiko (apprentice geisha).

 

And this is a geiko (the Kyoto term for geisha)

 

Yeah, they all look like they're ready to throw down with a ninja.

 

Agree with other posters that we got a pseudo-Asian mishmash costume, and it's not as if the choreography screamed "Japan!". If they wanted to set the dance in Japan, that's fine. But do it properly. If you want to put your dancer in a kimono, then just shorten it. But don't disrespect the culture by that kind of lazy Halloween Adventure cosplay "geisha" costume.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Hana Chan

[Rahul]

The pseudo-Bollywood isn't pseudo, by the way. I know Nakul isn't everyone's cup of tea, but his dances are Bollywood. Bollywood is a recognized dance form characterized by the mixing of elements drawn from Classical Indian dance with elements drawn from Western dance forms (more hip hop than ballet in what I've seen), and Nakul is both trained and a cultural insider. The style he choreographs for the show is harmonious with the style that his performance troupe really does. It's just not a style that everyone likes (including me... I live in an area with a high South Asian population so have seen a many community-based Bollywood performances. I generally like them all better than Nakul's choreography, even though the actual dancing is much less polished).

 

 

While its true that Bollywood is an amalgam of many dance styles, heavily drawing from Indian folk dance (with very little drawn from Indian classical dance), that dance was some kind of fusion because you just don't find grand jetés and so forth in this style. I was actually surprised by this number because it was a bit different from his derivative dances with the same 10 recycled moves. I will say that Nakul's dances do feature pseudo Bharatanatyam which always makes me cringe.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

so to me, the difference in the two sides of this competition are what style you feel you excel in and not whether you are trained or whether you have done choreography before. The street dancers being able to do well in the "choreography" does not impress me as much as I think Nigel wants it to because they are trained dancers!

Nigel's favorite narrative is "Oh, you poor little urchin who we found begging for change on the sidewalk, you have never had ANY dance training but because we picked you up out of the gutter and exposed you to all these dance styles you've never even heard of before our benevolent presence in your life, you have learned to point your toes, do split leaps, and perform in all these new and different dance styles. YOU'RE WELCOME." Whenever there are street dancers with cross training, he pretends that they have never taken any dance classes. Remember how every week during judging he would remind us that Fik Shun had NO DANCE TRAINING WHATSOEVER, despite the fact that Fik Shun said in multiple interviews (outside of the show but while the season was airing) that he had gone to a performing arts school and majored in dance and taken ballet, jazz, etc.? Nigel didn't want that mentioned on the show because it would ruin his fairy tale about how the show (and Nigel) changed his life by giving him the opportunity to appear on the show.

I don't fault any of the dancers for being cross trained. They know what the show format is so it's silly for them not to take classes outside their style before coming on the show. Most dancers (and I mean regular kids, not just people who audition for this show) take classes in different styles. My sister's (non-competitive) studio required dancers to take ballet technique as well as non-ballet classes. A cynical person might say this is the studio's way of making more money but I saw it as similar to having to take gen ed classes in college - they wanted to expose the kids to other dance styles because sometimes you end up liking something that you might not have otherwise. My sister ended up liking (but not loving) tap. I, om the other hand was briefly forced to take modern dance and all I learned was that I hated it.

Because so many dancers cross train, I can't fault them for identifying as one type of dancer even if they have taken classes in other styles. And in this season particularly it was very smart for someone like Yoralis to say she was Team Street even though she previously auditioned as a contemporary dancer. Historically the show has a glut of contemporary dancers every season and not as many street dancers (let alone female street dancers) so in theory being a street dancer gave her a better chance of making it on the show. But at least in her case they acknowledged that she tried out as a contemporary dancer before. I was more surprised by the old pictures of Jaja at dance competitions.

Edited August 19, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[EyesGlazed]

Things that made me unhappy:  What a travesty that Edson is going home instead of Derek.  I'm also sad to lose JJ.  I don't know why she hasn't caught on with the audience (or apparently those who post here).  She was multi-faceted and had a lot of personality.  Her sexy cha-cha was amazing.  Megz, in my view, is overpraised.  And she's been given choreo that's not too challenging.

 

Things that made me happy:  Gabi.  She is everything.  And she's of Cuban background, which makes her even cooler.   I loved her ninja number the most.  Seeing Alex Freaking Wong.  That was an unexpected treat, and he looks finer than ever.  JaJa was much better in her Bollywood with him than I would have expected, though it's clear the choreographer didn't give her the most difficult Bollywood moves.  Neptune and Jasmine in the Frankenhop number:  great.  Since I love Empire, I was glad to see the contestants dance to the soundtrack.

 

Also, I watch Empire religiously, but I really didn't realise just how much great pop music they've made in a short space of time.

Get the Season 1 soundtrack.  You'll love it.  I listened to it compulsively for weeks.

 

 

[BensBritches]

Because so many dancers cross train, I can't fault them for identifying as one type of dancer even if they have taken classes in other styles

 

.Oh I agree with this completely.  I don't fault the dancers at all and this show had a very poor track record with casting female street dancers anyway.  I completely fault Nigel for continually throwing a bs narrative out there just gets trampled upon in the video packages & talking heads.  It's like he doesn't think the audience is smart enough to figure out the dancers on this show are trained and it drives me crazy.  It bugged starting way back with Joshua, but as you pointed out, it has gone on and on through the seasons.  I did fall for it with Ivan, and maybe he too was fully cross-trained, but that was my first exposure to this show, so what did I know.

[ToxicUnicorn]

I'm surprised no one is talking about the Danny treatment that Jim is getting.  I don't know what Nigel is talking about.  I feel a lot of joy when Jim dances.  I loved his solo, and I've enjoyed all of his performances.  I feel he is getting unfairly shoe horned into the technique only box.

 

I always enjoy All-Star night.  I was surprised at how much I loved Marko!  That was one of his best performances ever ... Megz really was nowhere near as good as he was.  Of course, maybe she couldn't be in a Ray Leeper jazz, but it was a not good showing for her.

 

Kayla was exquisite.  I thought Derek did pretty well and got stronger during the performance.  I'm sad to agree with Nigel on that, but there you go  I'm perfectly ok with Derek staying instead of Edson.  I don't like that Travis gets to choreograph for pairs this season.

 

I agree Travis choreographed a forklift routine for Edson; then again, he hasn't impressed me much.  Travis sure loves his Jaimie.  She is so much better than she was, although I still find her dancing a bit cold.

 

Virgil and Comfort's cute Motown hip hop (Just My Imagination, Christopher Scott) was so much fun.  I really enjoyed that - and I liked it a whole lot better than some highly praised hip hop of the past few years.  They were adorable.

 

I wish Barbie and Ken dolls  would get replaced by JJ and Edson  dolls.  They make a really good looking pair.  (See anothermi's post in the Media thread/) 

 

I pretty much hated the Neptune-Jasmine Frankenstein routine.  It was ugly.  Jaja''s solo was only ok for me, and while I enjoyed teh Bollywood ... I don't think it looked nearly as hard as other Bollywoods on this show.  (Alex F. Wong can come back any time.)

 

I agree with everyone that Gaby killed the warriror geisha routine with Joshua.  It was the first routine of hers that I have enjoyed a lot.  If it were up to me at this point, I think she deserves the title the most.

 

 

[Morgan of Hed]

Who the hell is voting for Derek? His solo was such a competition dance - trick, trick, trick, trick, gymnastics, trick, trick, trick, gymnastics.

To be fair, so was Hailee's solo.  In fact during auditions I seem to recall thinking "oh, so they're putting through another bland blonde competition dancer".  She's really turned my opinion around so I think being able to choreograph yourself is a nice but not necessary talent for the show.

[WhineandCheez]

It's like he doesn't think the audience is smart enough to figure out the dancers on this show are trained and it drives me crazy.

 

I really feel like i got the Nigel shaft because right from the previews on, it was be implied to the viewer, and also to the contestants that it was gonna just be the stage doing stage and the street doing street.  Thats why they didn't take Standing O and others like her who weren't cross trained.  It was really a big fat lie they gave out to lure all of us that this season they were doing something dramatically different.  bullcrap, it's exactly the same as the other years ONLY GOOD THING--you don't always dance with the same contestant partner or allstar partner.  THAT was always hugely unfair.

[luvthepros]

Before the season started, I saw an interview Nigel gave. Nigel said once the competition shows begin, stage dancers will be dancing street genres and street dancers will be dancing stage genres. In fact, Nigel said he was expecting train wrecks from some of the dancers because they had no idea if the contestants could perform styles other than their own because the auditioners did not have to dance styles other than their own in Vegas.

 

All this from Nigel, BEFORE the season started.

[kingshearte]

Alex -wanted- to do the Bollywood (with Amy in S10) because he missed out on the dance during his season. Not sure about this season though.

 

I think they will probably want bring back Eliana to pair with Jim in a ballet. Wonder if she's available.

That would be so awesome. Or Cheon. I wouldn't be sad to see him again.

 

 

 

 

 

Given what happened with Benji and the Celine Dion prize, I think it's just the show's way of saying that the winner will be offered a spot in the show but they don't have to take it.

Either that or she's had the sense to include a clause that says she doesn't have to take the winner if for some reason they're totally unsuitable. Seems like that might not be much of a prize, but perhaps the opportunity to even audition for JLo is a rare enough commodity that it would be valuable. I have no idea. I'm not crazy enough to attempt any sort of career in dance.