S02.E08: Omega Station

[Kbilly]

Also kinda funny that there was a Veronica and Betty Chessani.

 

\

[represent]

 

That when Ani was leaving Laura at the train station and Laura asked, "What will I do?" Ani responded "I don't know," and walked away. Come on, say "I don't know, you'll (have to) figure it out" at least. It was just so weird and abrupt.

Ah, she was lucky Ani was letting her walk away from it all, bought her a damn ticket and everything. She's a grownup, she's not the little girl in that picture anymore, how much coddling does she need? She had been up to some pretty devious stuff to seek vengence on her parents killers, and I sure don't fault her nor her brother for that, not in that town. But she's not wet behind the ears little flower. Plus Ani had to go save her man Ray's ass. 

People keep saying Ani was sidelined after sex with Ray, not sure I saw that.

Once again Ray fucked up and she had to shoot Burris and literally pick Ray's ass up off the floor before Burris shot him  in that train station. Which is another damn reason I'm pissed he got himself killed in the end by none other than Burris, jeesh.

There were ton of signs in this series that Ray in particular was man walking dead or a dead man walking Heck the doctor asked him did he even want to leave in an earlier episode then they showed that xray of his chest. Yeah, he was always a goner, but gosh, to be hunted down like a wild animal, depressing, so depressing.

Edited August 11, 2015 by represent

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

She was looking at the life they had together in those pictures, at what was and how tragic it was to see a man that she knew was good deep down, or use to be, fall so tragically.

Perhaps you are right. Well, if he was very different when their kid was young, were those photos from that period before or after he killed the wrong guy?

If the insinuation is something about him changed, I'm missing the beat because I thought he wanted the rapist and was off-kilter from that point onward.

 

Maybe avoidance of cliché?

Perhaps. But, given that I read somewhere that Ani Bezzerides' name was an homage to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._I._BezzeridesI thought he would have picked more purposeful names. That's not to say all names were loaded with meaning or value. But, a good name can make for building a great character from the outset. For instance, choosing Athena or Velocorro or Caspare (if broken into French, it would be Case + Father; and, since this mystery revolved around him, it could be intentionally spelled that way.)

 

But, switching names that are popular in different generations? Why? There is a continuance of control in that patriarchy, right? That's according to the Rick Springfield psychiatrist. So, what's the significance of naming the older one Austin?

 

Also kinda funny that there was a Veronica and Betty Chessani.

I didn't notice that but now that you mention it, that is funny.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

You know how this should have ended? Instead of going to Venezuela, Ani should have gone to Ireland and met Ray's Irish side of the family, who all turn out to be fat and red-headed.

Well, in reality, Colin Farrell's oldest son James is a redhead (but not overweight - his mother is a model/former model who isn't a redhead). So I'm gonna assume the character Chad was eating his feelings or the propensity to be overweight comes from his mom's side. ;)

I think the reason so many people got upset with the series is because it had so much potential to be great. If it had been outright crappy, then everyone would be like "Nothing to see here," and move on by. There were some good setups and some challenges. I really wanted this to be better, but the finale confirmed how badly I think it went.

This.^^^

Thank you for articulating what I've been trying to express about this season in a much more eloquent way than I've been able to do.

It's sad that I really wanted to love this season, but I found it hard enough to even like it at certain times.

Edited August 12, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[represent]

 

 

Perhaps you are right. Well, if he was very different when their kid was young, were those photos from that period before or after he killed the wrong guy?

If the insinuation is something about him changed, I'm missing the beat because I thought he wanted the rapist and was off-kilter from that point onward.

Yeah, now you have a point that I was thinking about when they showed those pictures of him with baby sleeping on his chest all at peace. But that may have been just a peaceful moment while anger and the determination to seek revenge on his wife's rapist kept building. Because you are right, she was raped before she found out she was pregnant which is why the paternity was always in question.

I don't think she hid the rape and then told him after the baby was born?  But that picture with him and the baby definitely looked like all was well and he was at peace and not yet angry and washed up yet.

 

I always felt that when she talked about how good of a man he was, that it was definitely before the rape, but maybe not. In the one scene where she first tells him that she is filing for sole custody, she almost says something to the effect that she doesn't know what happened to cause the change in him. I remember thinking to myself, what is she talking about, isn't it your rape that changed him? But maybe that wasn't it, it was just that final "thing" that he needed as an excuse to bring out what and who he really was like Frank said. Maybe he started to change before the rape.

 

 

 

Well, in reality, Colin Farrell's oldest son James is a redhead (but not overweight - his mother is a model/former model who isn't a redhead). So I'm gonna assume the character Chad was eating his feelings or the propensity to be overweight comes from his mom's side. ;)

Yeah, because the pictures that Ray was looking at on his cell phone of Chad when he was little, he was not chubby/overweight at all. I even think one picture had him smiling with a baseball bat.

Edited August 12, 2015 by represent

[izabella]

I think I'm just over the emotionally messed up cops trope.  I tune in hoping that it's a clever cops with messed up criminals story.  I want them to be interesting cops because they are clever, not because their lives are all messed up.

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

I think I'm just over the emotionally messed up cops trope.  I tune in hoping that it's a clever cops with messed up criminals story.  I want them to be interesting cops because they are clever, not because their lives are all messed up.

That's similar to why I'm tired of the detectives just being cops. In both series, the principals begin as cops and then become private eyes. But, we could have had one who was introduced as a private eye and stayed a lone wolf type of character. In a weird way, Frank almost filled that role because he was looking into things and got answers using his methods.

 

But, I would really hope the lead or leads in the third installment goes straight up gumshoes, in a classic style. It doesn't need to to be contemporary either. There's decades to sort through that don't involve famous cases or even classic stories. But, in this season if there had been one who didn't have the family issues and had nothing to lose, that could have been a solid character to tie two or more detectives around. I'm convinced of this.

 

I also would have had no problem if she or he lost or didn't solve the case. But, to throw 4 balls into the air and have three disappear while the fourth one is left bouncing is lackluster enough. (Ani on the run; will the reporter live to tell the tale?)

 

I get that all four characters had overlapping circles (flat ones?). But, since so much was told to us using exposition, it may as well have been told to us by someone who was not in those circles. Does that make sense?

 

Instead of that True Detective, I relied on this board to understand the stuff I missed or confused. You, PTV Posters, are the True Detective!

 

Oh crap. They killed us in the end anyway, didn't they?

Edited August 12, 2015 by Hobo.PassingThru

[Lemons]

 

I always felt that when she talked about how good of a man he was, that it was definitely before the rape, but maybe not. In the one scene where she first tells him that she is filing for sole custody, she almost says something to the effect that she doesn't know what happened to cause the change in him. I remember thinking to myself, what is she talking about, isn't it your rape that changed him? But maybe that wasn't it, it was just that final "thing" that he needed as an excuse to bring out what and who he really was like Frank said. Maybe he started to change before the rape.

 

.

The wife didn't know that he killed a man she thought was the rapist and was being blackmailed by frank. I don't think Frank was right when he said that was who he really was. That murder caused the downward spiral and ruined his life. I think Ray would have been happy and content with his wife, child and cop salary.

[susannot]

"That being said, CF's more talented than I remember."

Yes, this. I've seen RM in many films and her talent was not a surprise to me, but I actually can't think of anything that I've seen Colin Farrell in. I thought he was a superb actor in this series: poignant, damaged, violent, and gentle. I know he's been a successful actor for a number of years but I really don't think I have ever seen any of his films. Thank you HBO.

ETA: Looking at IMDB, the only movie I have ever seen with Colin Farrell is Horrible Bosses. Entertaining, but it hardly showcased his acting skills.

Edited August 12, 2015 by susannot

[represent]

 

The wife didn't know that he killed a man she thought was the rapist and was being blackmailed by frank. I don't think Frank was right when he said that was who he really was. That murder caused the downward spiral and ruined his life. I think Ray would have been happy and content with his wife, child and cop salary.

Actually there was a point that she did suspect that he had killed him. She  knew or suspected at some point that he had done something. That's what she was referring to when he told her that it was his God given right as her husband to... This was said when they were arguing that first time out in the street and when she first told him that she was going to sue for sole custody. She knew exactly what he was referring to. Then their last scene on the cliff she asks him why he lied about seeking retribution on the rapist when he really didn't, thinking that he had lied. That's when he tells her he was set up. But yes, the first time they argued out in front of some store and he was expecting her to bring Chad and she didn't, in that argument she knew very well what he did. She just didn't know that he had killed the wrong man.

That's why she was so angry at the custody hearing and he told his lawyer that she had never looked at him like she hated him. But that's why she was shooting death stares at him, she thought he lied about killing the rapist and for what, that ruined him,  them, their marriage. She says this on the cliff in their final scene. She  knew and like Ray thought he had killed the right guy.

 

 

TA: Looking at IMDB, the only movie I have ever seen with Colin Farrell is Horrible Bosses. Entertaining, but it hardly showcased his acting skills.

He was in this other move SWAT with Sam Jackson and Jeremy Reiner not sure how to spell his last name, I think that was the first thing I saw him in.

Edited August 12, 2015 by represent

[izabella]

I thought Colin Farrell was great in "Phone Booth."

Edited August 12, 2015 by izabella

[Cardie]

I liked him in an early supporting role in Minority Report.

[Armchair Critic]

I kept laughing at Colin Farrell's inexplicable channeling of Karl Childer's accent in that scene at the terminal.

 

So glad somebody else mentioned the Sling Blade accent and deep growly voice he used in that scene. HAHAHAAA

[Milburn Stone]

Frank really had Ray's number, all along. When dealing with Gena's rape, just because Ray took out the wrong guy doesn't mean he was innocent. Just because Ray FED him the info, didn't make him innocent. And funally, when the slate between Ray and Frank was clear, Frank offered him one last temptation, and Ray took it.

Frank and Ray both could have gone south and lived like kings, but their final choiced doomed them.

 

I agree with your observation about the tragedy of Frank and Ray, but I don't understand "just because Ray FED him the info, didn't make him innocent." What info did Ray feed Frank? And who didn't it make innocent? 

[benteen]

I never saw it but the first time I ever heard about CF was in a film called Tigerland.  He got really good reviews for that.

 

I saw him in Minority Report and he was good.  Thought he was hilarious in Horrible Bosses.

Edited August 12, 2015 by benteen

[DarkRaichu]

Works in theory but in practice, there's a fundamental asymmetry between participants.  For an elected official it's potential disaster but for a mobster, the revelation of sexing up hookers is not such a big deal.  If I'm the mayor or looking to be one, no way I'm partying with crooks who have little to lose and everything to gain.

The mobs need the officials to operate semi openly and to clean up any mess.  The officials cleaned up a big shoot out involving multiple dead cops and civilians just like that.  Should the mobs turn, they will loose all access to their shady operations.

 

Plus, only the mobs higher ups (like Osip) were invited.  Even Frank was not in the party.  Come to think of it, Frank was treated more like mid-management by Chessani and Catalast exec.  He was high enough to oversaw several parts of the operation, but not big enough to be part of the big boys orgies.  His exclusion from the orgies most likely lead to how easy the rest of the big boys colluded behind his back and kicked him out of the pack / tribe.

[Jextella]

I never saw it but the first time I ever heard about CF was in a film called Tigerland.  He got really good reviews for that.

 

I saw him in Minority Report and he was good.  Thought he was hilarious in Horrible Bosses.

Minority Report was a great movie (Tom Cruise is far underrated as an actor, IMO).

 

I haven't seen a ton of Colin Farrell movies but what I have seen I really like. 

 

He was amazing in Minority Report, Phone Booth, Saving Mr. Banks, and Horrible Bosses.  I think it was Al Pacino who referred to him as the greatest actor of his generation.  I'm no pro, but I do thinkhe is really really good - and he's one of those who can do all genres.

[catrox14]

I liked him in an early supporting role in Minority Report.

 

That's when I first really took note of him. I thought he stole the show.

 

I didn't know for like a year after seeing that he was Irish, because he's done a pretty great American accent for along time. I've seen almost all of Colin Farrell's work and he's never been the issue in a bad project.  IMO of course. MV.

 

He was good in "Hart's War" whilst not a great movie. He was remarkable in "Tigerland".  He was fantastic in "In Bruges" and  "A Home at the End of the World".  Agree with everyone about him in "Phone Booth" and loved him in "SWAT"(which I quite liked both of those).  Also, yes even he was good in 'Miami Vice' which was not a good movie IMO. 

 

I think he's one of those internal actors who does so much with just a look or a flick of eye or subtle shift in his face. 

 

I'm really happy to see him get noticed all over again by a new flock of viewers.

Edited August 12, 2015 by catrox14

[Penman61]

When I heard Colin Farrell was in TD2, I was thrilled and hopeful.  I think he has greater range and more subtlety and presence than Matthew McConaughey or Woody Harrelson, which you can see if you compare their bodies of work (the hypey McConnaissance notwithstanding).

 

So it's been a yuuuge disappointment to see Farrell and the others hamstrung by TD2's godawful writing.  Nonetheless, there was not a single moment where I didn't believe Farrell and feel for him, whereas I often caught myself eyerolling or suppressing laughter when Vince Vaughn was onscreen.  

 

Long way of agreeing with the poster upthread who said the tragedy here is meta, a tragedy of what might have been with all this talent and money and cultural cachet.  So disappointing.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Penman61

[iMonrey]

 

There is no such thing as a negative chance. it's between 0% or 100%. The kid is Ray's

 

Then maybe they shouldn't have put a minus sign, or a hyphen, right in front of 99.99. And obviously I wasn't interested enough in this to freeze frame the letter and examine whatever could be gleaned from it beyond the glimpse we were shown in real time. All I was was "Velcorro" and -99.99.

 

You know what else is screwy? 

 

They captured the rapist on DNA evidence, yet clearly the paternity test was matched against Ray's DNA, not the rapist's. The former was on file. I don't know where they got a sample of Ray's DNA considering he was so adamant that a paternity test not be done. But I supposed if they'd showed the rapist's name I'd have been even more confused since they never named him as far as I can recall. 

[represent]

 

When I heard Colin Farrell was in TD2, I was thrilled and hopeful.  I think he has greater range and more subtlety and presence than Matthew McConaughey or Woody Harrelson, which you can see if you compare their bodies of work (the hypey McConnaissance notwithstanding).

Yes he definitely does. And WH has more range than MM. I don't think MM acting chops are that impressive, he's watchable but please...I mean I wouldn't say he's just another pretty face, but he's not that great of an actor either because I don't see the range.

Edited August 12, 2015 by represent

[Lemons]

They captured the rapist on DNA evidence, yet clearly the paternity test was matched against Ray's DNA, not the rapist's. The former was on file. I don't know where they got a sample of Ray's DNA considering he was so adamant that a paternity test not be done.

 

Ray finally agreed to the paternity test when his wife sued him for sole custody.   He didn't have much choice.  If they had used the rapists DNA to rule out the rapist as father, that still wouldn't have told them whether Ray was the father.

[Philbert]

 

So Ray never saw The General?  (Perhaps the only Irish movie that CF wasn't in.)

 

 

If he wasn't then Colm Meany was :)

[Free]

I think I'm just over the emotionally messed up cops trope.  I tune in hoping that it's a clever cops with messed up criminals story.  I want them to be interesting cops because they are clever, not because their lives are all messed up.

 

I think it's also a problem that it was overdone.  All the characters were like this to an obnoxious extent and there wasn't any other character to counter balance that.

 

It also doesn't help that most of the season had the characters mostly isolated from each other with limited interactions, by the time they finally did get together by the end, the show was already on its' way to wrapping up and it was too little too late by then.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Free

[FemmyV]

I agree with your observation about the tragedy of Frank and Ray, but I don't understand "just because Ray FED him the info, didn't make him innocent." What info did Ray feed Frank? And who didn't it make innocent? 

Sorry, that should have been "Frank FED"

[Hobo.PassingThru]

Keying off of

 

agree with your observation about the tragedy of Frank and Ray, but I don't understand "just because [Frank] ... FED him the info, didn't make him innocent."

 

Was Ray supposed to be a good cop prior to his wife's rape and his revenge?

Was he a Vinci cop at that time or was he somewhere else?

If all the cops in Vinci were corrupt then why did Frank need to hook Ray in? It seemed like he had an entire force to choose from so maybe Ray was the only one who Frank did not own?

 

I ask because obviously Ray stayed loyal to Frank, right through the end. Maybe Frank wouldn't let him make a clean break but it sure seemed like prior to finding out he killed the wrong man, Ray was not too pleased about doing odd jobs (like collecting rent) for Frank.

After the kitchen table talk, why didn't their relationship change with Ray having more leverage?

[DarkRaichu]

Keying off of

 

Was Ray supposed to be a good cop prior to his wife's rape and his revenge?

Was he a Vinci cop at that time or was he somewhere else?

If all the cops in Vinci were corrupt then why did Frank need to hook Ray in? It seemed like he had an entire force to choose from so maybe Ray was the only one who Frank did not own?

 

I ask because obviously Ray stayed loyal to Frank, right through the end. Maybe Frank wouldn't let him make a clean break but it sure seemed like prior to finding out he killed the wrong man, Ray was not too pleased about doing odd jobs (like collecting rent) for Frank.

After the kitchen table talk, why didn't their relationship change with Ray having more leverage?

 

Somebody should re-watch the flashback from ep1 to see Ray's uniform in the flashback ;)  I'd say he was an "average" cop :)

 

As for the reason for Frank to own Ray, probably because

1. Burris and Holloway wanted to have complete deniability as to Ray's actions since Frank was giving the orders to do dirty jobs to Ray, even when they were the masterminds

2. Frank wanted his own dirty cop, outside of the "Kabal"

3. The "Kabal" wanted to make Frank think he had some kind of power and autonomy by giving him his own dirty cop, yet controlled him at the same time by giving him tips / orders

 

As for the rent, I thought that was Ray's responsibilities AFTER he quit the force and worked full time for Frank.

 

Ray stayed around for revenge (ie. destroy the people who mastermind the whole thing), and for the money (enough to send his son to college)

Edited August 13, 2015 by DarkRaichu

[Milburn Stone]

Ray stayed around for revenge (ie. destroy the people who mastermind the whole thing), and for the money (enough to send his son to college)

 

I think that's part of why Ray stayed around, but not all of it.

 

Two other things were a part of it: Ray's disgust at the corruption, and wanting to do something right for a change to redeem himself (in his own eyes, and the eyes of his wife and son); and his loyalty to Ani and Paul.

 

I confess when I read your list of 3 items of why Frank wanted to own Ray, I went "Wait, Ray wanted his own dirty cop? Who was that? And when did that happen? And what does that have to do with Frank owning Ray?" But I'm sure the confusion is mine.

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

2. Ray wanted his own dirty cop, outside of the "Kabal"

3. The "Kabal" wanted to make Ray think he had some kind of power and autonomy by giving him his own dirty cop, yet controlled him at the same time by giving him tips / orders

 

So, you're saying his partner Dixon was Ray's own dirty cop?

 

 

Somebody should re-watch the flashback from ep1 to see Ray's uniform in the flashback ;)  I'd say he was an "average" cop :)

 

I do remember that he was a uniformed patrolman of some sort when Frank gave him the picture of his wife's "attacker".

 

 

As for the rent, I thought that was Ray's responsibilities AFTER he quit the force and worked full time for Frank.

 

And, yes, when he became one of Frank's full-time handy men/ hench men, it was when he was collecting rent. I get that much of Ray's loyalty to Frank--both while on the force and afterwards-- was about having the money to get custody and to fight his wife's legal maneuverings. Frank did use that situation to keep him dishonest. Heck, everyone used that situation to coerce Ray. Even that DA who recruited him to work on that Three Detectives task force used the situation to get him on board.

 

Now, let's get to Paul. After he left the CHP, he became an insurance inspector. Prior to Burris killing him, Paul was shown digging in some records room--maybe looking at microfiche. For some reason when I watched that I thought he was in a Cali. Highway Patrol station. Does an insurance detective have access to a place like that, or, was he in that Hall of Records place? Was he in the building right above the tunnels where he was confronted by Holloway and his Black Mountain thugs? 

 

I ask because Burris' shadowy figure was shown spying on Paul as he was looking at the records. And, I kept believing Paul had access to so much info because he seemed to be using resources that cops were using/ could use.

 

Too Many Crooks!

[Milburn Stone]

Too Many Crooks!

 

This is brilliant.

[represent]

 

 

Was Ray supposed to be a good cop prior to his wife's rape and his revenge?

Was he a Vinci cop at that time or was he somewhere else?

If all the cops in Vinci were corrupt then why did Frank need to hook Ray in? It seemed like he had an entire force to choose from so maybe Ray was the only one who Frank did not own?

I believe Ray was transferred from LAPD to Vinci after he was suspected of killing his wife's rapist. He came to VInci PD with those rumors, in the first episode he addresses them in the car with Ani. He was definitely at another police department before Vinci.  But it was Blake that took it upon himself to get his hooks in Ray first. Blake told Frank that he found out about Ray and thought that it would help Frank move up if he had his hooks in a cop. So Blake took it upon himself to get the ball rolling and give up the name of the "rapist" which apparently was just some guy that putting the heat on him and he wanted to get rid of.  And remember Blake was working with the enemies for now we know a pretty long time. That's what he told Frank, someone correct me if I'm wrong. So basically, Frank understood that he had a cop, Ray, in his pocket, but he at least thought it was based on getting said cop the true identify of the man who raped his wife. 

But Frank never gave an order to Blake to find some cop to corrupt and get in his back pocket.

 

And like Ani said they were all set up including Frank. I think I realized many episodes ago that Austin Chessani really had no power. Clearly it was his son. He really wasn't pulling the strings yet that was who Frank was reporting to. Frank was taken for a ride, he was never really a power player, he just didn't realize it until it was too late. So basically the VInci police dept. was not at his disposal, they were setting him up.

 

 

After the kitchen table talk, why didn't their relationship change with Ray having more leverage?

I don't know if he had more leverage, but I think they did begin to realize that they may be on the same side. I think Frank really realized than he was more an outsider and less of the power player that he set out to be. That's why he says that Ray maybe the only friend he's got left. I think there was some honor in Frank, at least that is what he wanted to see  in himself. There were certain lines he would not cross. Just little things like his disgust at the Mexicans slitting that woman's throat. I think both these men wanted to be honorable, while the other players, mayor, mayor's son, Vinci PD, Caspere etc. were clearly shown to not have any redeeming qualities, regrets, introspection about their actions. Even when Frank is taking his walk of death, inability to grant salvation to that man who was begging him to save his life years ago,all shows that he did have redeeming qualities, like just feeling guilty about shit. I think he was a man of his word, he did not want Ray to think that he purposely deceived him with regard to his wife's rapist. 

 

So basically in the end, Frank gets some kind of justice on the men who screwed him over Osip and McCandless because them and Caspere were really who he was in business with. But Ray does not live to see justice on the  law enforcement who screwed him over. He said he was trying to get money and justice for Woodrough when he went and shot up that place with Frank, but those men had nothing to do with killing Woodrough. So at the end it's Ani giving that reporter the evidence that will finally get justice on law enforcement side of things. And that reporter would have to go all the way up the the US attorney general for that since the CA attorney generaly is also corrupt. He was all set to put all that shit on Ani, they really wanted her at the end, jeesh.

Edited August 13, 2015 by represent

[Constantinople]

On the bright side:

 

Baseball is the most popular sport in Venezuela, and Bezzy Velcoro is a great name for a baseball player.

[DarkRaichu]

 

I confess when I read your list of 3 items of why Frank wanted to own Ray, I went "Wait, Ray wanted his own dirty cop? Who was that? And when did that happen? And what does that have to do with Frank owning Ray?" But I'm sure the confusion is mine.

 

So, you're saying his partner Dixon was Ray's own dirty cop?

 

This is what happened when you try to post and eat lunch at the same time.  You were lucky I did not type BLT and Dr. Pepper instead :D

[Hobo.PassingThru]

So you meant Frank having Ray as his dirty cop?

Not that Ray got his his own dirty cop in the form of Dixon?

 

If the answer to both is yes then that makes sense because if the latter were true then we didn't see much more of Dixon than we did of Stan before, you know, Dixon hit the pavement.

 

 

And, yeah. I think we all know what it is like to write while hungry or eating at work. If you had written "BLT owned Ray" then it would have added too many more (delicious) layers to the mystery of the Second Season. ha ha

Edited August 13, 2015 by Hobo.PassingThru

[polyhymnia]

I thought Ray was with the Sheriff's office before Vinci.

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

I thought Ray was with the Sheriff's office before Vinci.

That's what I thought, too. If he was LAPD, it is odd because Holloway and Burris were originally there, too. Perhaps I'm just conflating the two possibilities.

 

Admittedly, I don't have plans on trying to rewatch the show. Even snippets of it is too much more time. At least with PTV-it is a more constructive use my time in relation to that show.

[represent]

Personally, this season would have been a lot more enjoyable and cohesive if Bezzerides and Velcoro had a history, the way that Frank and Velcoro had one. Loved TKitsch and his character was a warrior god, but he was not necessary.

 

Frank and his wife, no way did I ever buy that they were some root for couple, another reason why it never confused me as to whose baby that was at the end. No way was NP invested in that couple's baby. Not to mention that while VV had a high billing KR had a much lower billing than RM. RM and CF were the leading male and female of this season and they're hot. So if you only have eight episodes and you are invested in your two hot leads hooking up, you need to establish some history. This history could have also eliminated Ray's wife and son, Ani should have been a ex or estranged wife and yes a detective on the case. Heck her, father said that she had a failed marriage and it should have been with Ray.  

 

Those two could have had a shit load of issues that would break up a marriage including her daddy/abuse issues if he wanted to leave that in. Have Ray wanting to be a daddy, that could have been one of the reasons their marriage didn't last. Cliche' yes, but I don't care, we're talking about the history of a love story no matter how fucked up it may be within a detective show. Love stories are soapy and problems between the sexes are cliche' give me a break. The only thing is weaving how he would have gotten all tied up with Frank. 

 

I still think they need more than just a corrupt police department so not sure how to get rid of Catalyst because that's Frank's connection. Unless you make Ani's father and that commune more of a player in the prostitution ring. 

 

But yeah back story with Ani and Ray would have helped this viewer.

Edited August 14, 2015 by represent

[editorgrrl]

Honestly, there was a story here somewhere, and possibly a good one, but it either needed more episodes (please don't throw things at my head) to develop/end some of the plot threads OR to pare it down to the basics and make it leaner.

Paul, Ani's father, and Stan should've been cut entirely.

[represent]

 

Honestly, there was a story here somewhere, and possibly a good one, but it either needed more episodes (please don't throw things at my head) to develop/end some of the plot threads OR to pare it down to the basics and make it leaner.

Yeah, I don't get the eight episodes thing. Heck even VEEP does ten episodes, some of the other HBO series I've enjoyed have done thirteen. I don't get it, since season one was such the rave, I am sure that HBO would have given them the money. I mean this is MM and WH still backing the show that they were the stars of in the first season, which everyone seemed to rave about so....I don't get it. 

[shapeshifter]

The eight-episode length may have been part of a formula someone concocted in an attempt to replicate the success of the first season.

[Cardie]

Yeah, I don't get the eight episodes thing.

 

Movie stars with active careers have limited time to devote to TV, so an eight-episode commitment was what snagged MM. When you also consider one guy is writing all the scripts, a limited number of episodes is going to be the result.

[tennisgurl]

Its weird. 8 episodes, and I feel like there was an endless amount of padding. The whole point of the new short run thing (besides getting big name actors who don't want to commit to a longer season) is to tell a clean story, with no pointless subplots or characters, and just make a quick, solid, and in this case, full contained season. This season felt weirdly padded, like even with 8 episodes, they didn't know what to do. 

 

With the exception of that God above men, who was taken from us far too soon....Stan. 

[Free]

Its weird. 8 episodes, and I feel like there was an endless amount of padding. The whole point of the new short run thing (besides getting big name actors who don't want to commit to a longer season) is to tell a clean story, with no pointless subplots or characters, and just make a quick, solid, and in this case, full contained season. This season felt weirdly padded, like even with 8 episodes, they didn't know what to do.

 

Yeah, it didn't feel like it was paced to be an 8 episode season like it should've been, also factor in multiple storylines where the characters for the most part had limited interactions with each other and it wasn't until near the end where they finally did come together, but by that point the series was already well on its way to wrapping itself up.

[represent]

 

 

Yeah, I don't get the eight episodes thing.

Movie stars with active careers have limited time to devote to TV, so an eight-episode commitment was what snagged MM. When you also consider one guy is writing all the scripts, a limited number of episodes is going to be the result.

When I say I don't get it, I don't mean that literally.  I'm aware of what you've stated above. The shorter episode seasons are why I love to watch HBO series rather than the 22 plus episode dramas on the regular networks. Someone just said that the shorter episode seasons lend themselves to a more clean cut story and in my experience I agree. Their shows never seem to cut corners and they put on screen whatever they need to, to tell a great story because they don't have to worry so much about those advertising dollars.

 I  just don't know what happened here. All I was saying is that HBO series have done a few more episodes than eight and maybe they needed a few more episodes and to trim all that fat as well.

I hope having to write for a female character didn't screw NP up, because for me the female character was the main draw. When she and CF were on the screen they captured my attention equally.  Actually let me stop, she was the star IMO. If he goes back to some bros before hoes formula and lets just keep to the "hottest/tough" guys of Hollywood formula every season including not having other actors from minority groups up front and center, then I'm going to get bored with that formula. There's a lot of talent out there, mix it up, fix those writing chops, and limit the number of directors.

Edited August 16, 2015 by represent

[terrymct]

Paul, Ani's father, and Stan should've been cut entirely.

Jordan, Frank's wife, could have been reduced greatly or removed entirely, as well.

[henripootel]

Its weird. 8 episodes, and I feel like there was an endless amount of padding.

I was surprised at how remarkably little detecting they did.  I mean they got lucky (like really, really lucky) a couple of times and got people to admit things they probably never ever would, which would be fine if this wasn't called 'True Detective'.  For most of the stuff they uncovered, good luck getting it into court.  Does that still count as detective-ing?

[Free]

Paul, Ani's father, and Stan should've been cut entirely.

 

 

Jordan, Frank's wife, could have been reduced greatly or removed entirely, as well.

 

That and Ani getting completely sidelined in the finale.

[represent]

I was rewatching episode one and I missed when Ray tells his lawyer that the ex-wife took off right after Chad was born. He tells her that he was raising Chad by himself, then the wife comes back into their lives and starts talking about wanting a divorce. Now clearly that was her way of dealing with the trauma of being raped and she won't get judged by me for that, and she did come back but....That sucks, to be a father taking care of the kid yourself, then the wife comes back healthier and you're now the shitty father and husband. 

And there's a scene where Ray's dad tells him that Holloway and Burris are good cops, "old school", so he knew them, cause Ray is talking to him about Vinci PD. I didn't pay attention to any of this the first time. 

 

That and Ani getting completely sidelined in the finale.

 

 

 

In terms of Ani being sideline, I still don't think she was completely sidelined, but I also don't see the character going on the shootout with Ray and Frank. I don't see it, she was the long arm of justice. She was the only one who was always looking to reveal the truth(s). I just don't see her shooting up a bunch of thugs in suits to get runaway money.  But Ray, yeah, he was always hovering back and forth over that criminal line. So I don't know how she could have played an active role in that scene. On the other hand she did save Ray's bumbling ass at the train station.  All the scenes before that she was acting along side Ray not held up in hotel while he did all the leg work so....The only thing she was sidelined from was the Osip/McCandless shoot out and while they were doing that she wasn't back at the bar the entire time shaking. She was at Pittlor's office trying to get more evidence. 

Edited August 16, 2015 by represent

[Free]

In terms of Ani being sideline, I still don't think she was completely sidelined, but I also don't see the character going on the shootout with Ray and Frank. I don't see it, she was the long arm of justice. She was the only one who was always looking to reveal the truth(s).

 

Which she technically didn't in the end, she just gave evidence up to a journalist in hopes of something actually changing (and that's just thinking optimistically), since practically everyone else is dead and they're stuck in Venezuela along with Frank's henchman and gf constantly in danger.

 

Now I'm not saying she's completely pointless, that's what Paul and Jordan, as well as other secondary/tertiary characters are there for.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Free

[represent]

 

hich she technically didn't in the end, she just gave evidence up to a journalist in hopes of something actually changing (and that's just thinking optimistically), since practically everyone else is dead and they're stuck in Venezuela along with Frank's henchman and gf constantly in danger.

My point is "justice and truth" was what this character was always seeking unlike the others. It's  what she stood for, that was her very being.  And yes that is what she ended the show trying to do, whether it ends up punishing those who were left Burris and the AG mainly is another matter. But I surely didn't expect her to go back with that reporter and testify now that she has a child to raise. She doesn't have the right to take that chance with her life now she's in charge of her son's. I suspect that's also why it took her what looks like a year to contact that reporter, which would make justice all the sweeter since Burriss, Toni and that AG, think she has dropped off the face of the earth along with the evidence and they are settled into their happily ever afters for over a year now. She was pregnant, wanting to give birth first, get back on her feet and ready to move to a new location once she was done handing over that evidence. Which is how the story ends.

 

I've been reading about that celebration in Venezuala and that statue with the woman and baby boy I believe is  symbol of truth, protector of truth and innocence something to that effect. Too bad may of the viewers  don't know this and that was who Ani was suppose to symbolize in all of this. That's why at the  end of it all, whatever the billing was, RM character was really the lead here, she was the heart of the whole season.

Edited August 17, 2015 by represent