S01.E06: Episode 6

[Cranberry]

The fractured Hawkins family reaches its lowest ebb, with dad Joe in exile, and Mattie, Toby and Sophie tired of their parents' lies. As the situation reaches breaking point, Laura decides it is time to tell the truth, and her confession has incredible consequences for household synth Anita. Meanwhile, Karen finally discovers 'killer synth' Niska's whereabouts, and a joyful reunion for the runaways is cut tragically short when a brutal betrayal forces one of their number to make the ultimate sacrifice.

[Athena]

Good episode. I think the episode summaries are giving away a bit too much though.

 

Lots of movement plot wise and character wise. A lot of what we speculated about Leo and Laura's brother happened. I also called Joe as the one who call the authorities. Very glad Mia stayed with the Hawkins. Poor Max though!

 

Loved all the scenes with Niska and George. David Elster created a carer for Leo, some friends, and even a toy for himself. No wonder Niska has issues with human males. I love how William Hurt plays their scenes. He is wary and scared, but he also has nothing to lose as well. He can offer some genuine friendship and mentoring to Niska as she discovers her own humanity. Love the return of Odi too! Niska seemed so pleased when she watched George and Odi interact.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Loved all the scenes with Niska and George. He created a carer for Leo, some friends, and even a toy for himself. No wonder Niska has issues with human males. I love how William Hurt plays their scenes. He is wary and scared, but he also has nothing to lose as well. He can offer some genuine friendship and mentoring to Niska as she discovers her own humanity. Love the return of Odi too! Niska seemed so pleased when she watched George and Odi interact.

 

This was really good episode for William Hurt -- George's conversations with Niska were really interesting. I liked how Niska tried to keep coming off as threatening and George really had no fucks to give so he did what he wanted.

 

I liked all the backstory we got on Leo and David Elster -- it's confirmed Leo is a synth/human hybrid who died and was brought back to life with all his memories transferred to digital storage.

 

Max sacrificing himself so that Leo could escape was heartbreaking, especially with his final remark.  Glad to see that Fred was not incinerated, and managed to successfully escape.  After briefly coming to the surface in front of Laura and Mattie, Mia's personality is now in full control of her body.  I'm still curious how Karen fits into all this, as she doesn't appear to be one of Elster's special synth creations (at least in Leo's memories).

 

Pete's wife has sex with her synth, although it appeared that it was a little too mechanical and somewhat unsatisfying -- and things go awry when she asks the synth to be random and unexpected, so Pete has to beat him until he is no longer functional.  And despite basically saving her from being raped by her synth, Pete's wife still won't let him back in the house.  

 

Karen has sex with Pete, and afterwards she tells him what she really is. Needless to say, Pete does not take it well.  For some reason, Karen says that she has to go somewhere and may not be coming back -- I'm curious where she has to go.

[Daisy]

:( Poor Maxie. Please find him, I like him most of all. 
I honestly thought Mia and Leo were loverrs, but it's so much more than that, Mia's basically his mother, and everyone else were siblings. 

 

this was a very sad episode, also, piss the hell off, Joe. 

[NorthstarATL]

I've said this before, but I absolutely love the way the series has taken my initial impression of the Hawkins family members and turned it on its head! Laura and Mattie, especially, have turned out to be quite admirable, and Joe is a creep, who has no idea what trouble he is unleashing just to conceal his sexual exploits with Anita/Mia. Max's fate moved me more than I thought it would, and I hope Leo is wrong about this being irreversible. I was suprised how many cues Pete missed with Karen, but that might be the root of his problem with his wife; that for a detective he's not really all that observant. The wife's misadventures with Simon were pretty amusing, if only for Simon's dialogue.

 

Loved all the scenes with Niska and George. He created a carer for Leo, some friends, and even a toy for himself. No wonder Niska has issues with human males. I love how William Hurt plays their scenes. He is wary and scared, but he also has nothing to lose as well. He can offer some genuine friendship and mentoring to Niska as she discovers her own humanity. Love the return of Odi too! Niska seemed so pleased when she watched George and Odi interact.

 

This was really good episode for William Hurt -- George's conversations with Niska were really interesting. I liked how Niska tried to keep coming off as threatening and George really had no fucks to give so he did what he wanted.

Indeed! I'm waiting for Niska to meet up with Joe. Mia can tell her how "hands on" he's been.

[Unclejosh]

I'm a bit confused, maybe I missed something. I though the wife of the cop was paralyzed or something and couldn't walk on her own, yet she was walking fine tonight?  In past episodes she had to be carried by the synth and Pete once to the bathroom to both their awkwardness.

[Cranberry]

She was involved in some kind of accident but has been doing physical therapy, and I guess she's improving! The synth was sent by the insurance company to help her until she could get back on her feet.

[Daisy]

I'm a bit confused, maybe I missed something. I though the wife of the cop was paralyzed or something and couldn't walk on her own, yet she was walking fine tonight?  In past episodes she had to be carried by the synth and Pete once to the bathroom to both their awkwardness.

That  had confused me too. I was like, how did she got from being on her feet for 122 seconds to being able to walk and do whatever. That was off. 

 

She was involved in some kind of accident but has been doing physical therapy, and I guess she's improving! The synth was sent by the insurance company to help her until she could get back on her feet.

 

I'd say. Go Simon. (until he got all creepy). 

[Athena]

During the scene where Mattie and Laura have their talk, it is clearly very windy and cold. Anita is standing robotically close to them but in her standard 3/4 sleeve top and slacks. It was one shot probably to showcase their differences, but I felt for Gemma Chan. She must have been freezing in that shot. Even actors who wear proper clothing get very cold doing the same scenes over and over again.

[henripootel]

I think this show is finally hitting its stride.  I've been a bit meh on this till now, like I was watching the set-up for a good show but not the show.  I think they've arrived.

[OrientalAmish]

I am glad I didn't give up on this show.... This episode really peaked my interest.... I love that most of the Hawkins family wants to help out....Shame on you Joe for being a pervy snitch.... Snitches don't get bitches....Ugh, I hope Max doesn't die! I love his character! ;-x

Edited July 20, 2015 by OrientalAmish

[John Potts]

Kinda ho-hum episode. The scenes with George and Niska were great and when Odi turned up it was really heartbreaking, the "affair" between the two cops went a bit sideways and we got the reveal (as several people suggested) that Leo was David's cyborg-ed son. But the family dynamics really let it down: although the Laura/Mattie scenes regarding her dead brother were great (and Yay! I was right, she wasn't having an affair), the rest just seemed a little too pat. Suddenly Anita/Mia acts weird and Laura is immediately convinced she's a real person (as oppose to say, an incompletely deleted previous personality - they know she's "old"). Then we had the "Let's split up - we can take more damage that way!" followed by the "Black dude dies first!" trope, which writers/producers never tire of (granted, he's totally set up for a "Not dead after all!" reveal down the line, but it's still such a cliché, not to say offensive)

 

OttoDBusDriver And despite basically saving her from being raped by her synth, Pete's wife still won't let him back in the house.

 

I know! Kicking him out in favour of her physio Synth was a dubious move, expecting him to pay for the extension on his hire fee was pretty damn offensive and then kicking him out straight after his heroic moment was just solidifying her bitchiness. Even if you don't have a spare room, he could sleep on the couch. And he'd probably be grateful it would mean he didn't get to sleep with his Synth Colleague!

[tatterd]

Noooo, poor Max!  He was becoming one of my favourites, so I'm hoping it's not permanent.  Whereas Joe and Pete's wife are fully deserving of being pushed off a bridge (as would be David Elster if he was still alive).

 

Very intrigued as to where Karen fits in with all this, I'd guess she must be one of David's as nobody else seems that technologically advanced but it seems odd that the other ones wouldn't know about her.  Unless he created her as a future girlfriend for Leo, because he did sound like a very odd man.  I find the transitions with her a bit jarring, it's like she's very human when we're not supposed to think of her as a synth, but then very synth like when we're supposed to remember.  It's subtler with the others.

 

Loved the way both the synth and human male came up with equally pitiful compliments. 

[Sakura12]

Maybe Karen was Elster's first creation (before Mia), that he abandoned for some reason. That's why she's interested in finding George and the others. 

 

Well at least we know where Niska's issues come from. She was a sex doll for Elster, while everyone else got to be mother and friends for Leo

 

My thoughts on the Family have really turned around. I didn't really like Mattie or Laura in the beginning, now I love that they are so willing to help Mia and her family once they realized she could feel. Although I was surprised to find out that Mia was Leo's "mother" not his girlfriend. It does explain why she was so obsessed with mothering. 

[Which Tyler]

Right just caught up - or as caught up as I can be with 2 teens who ask to watch the show, then ignore it for a multitude of conversations on phones / skypes and across the living room.

 

Why is there so much projection on these boards?

Synths are synths; they are machines with no feelings, no emotions; they are not human. On top of that we've got 1 cyborg and 5 synths with partial emotions*

Sex with a synth is no more disgusting than sex with a blow-up doll, or vibrator (again, excepting the ones with partial emotions).

The teens powering off the synth to shag it is disgusting as indicative behaviour; they're projecting / anthropomorphisising onto the synth, and then learning and reinforcing awful behaviour. I see this as more the equivalent of pulling the legs off insect and then dissecting a stray cat for the cliche growing psychopath. It's also reminiscent of plenty of real-life teen rape cases. And absolutely, well played Mattie.

 

Joe on the other hand is using a masturbatory aid - no worse than a blow-up doll or vibrator - not even close to rape. Bare in mind - he's not anthropomorphising Anita.

Funny how when Joe activates Anita's adult option it's rape, when Jill does the same.. and then some; it's an amusing misadventure. (Yes, yes, I know, Anita's one of the emotional ones; but it's also been stated many times that it's about how Joe sees her, not how she actually is and has no way of suspecting she is).

 

 

*Now, Leo and "his" 4 synths. My guess here is that Dr Estler did manage, over the years to programme a more-or-less complete ability to emote, feel etc; and that this is the end-game for the series; and that he basically split it 4 ways between these synths, as his needs at the time developed; so Mia has the empathy and nurture; Niska has the self-worth and some of the darker sides to humanity (utter cruelty / idiocy of giving the self-worth to the sex-bot**); We haven't really seen enough of Max and Fred; but it seems that Max is the clever, analytical one capable of faith (made to be Leo's high-achieving friend, capable of turning to God, dispair and utter faith in Leo); whilst Fred seems to be the hard-working, get stuff done one (probably made to protect and do the heavy lifting around the Elster home.

I also have this sneaking feeling that Dr Estler himself may have died in mysterious circumstances - AKA Niska; everyone seems a little too blasé about his death.

 

Karen / Robocop. My guess here is that she's a more natural evolution of synths; not a deliberately made lines of code, but a million monkeys in front of a typewriter - type scenario where she's been able to better mimic humans, and escape (probably for plot convenience) her previous life. Her interest in Leo's 4 would be her feeling of not wanting to be alone. Her very existence leads to much more scary answers of the same questions posed by deliberately coding emotional AI. If it's capable of developing on it's own, then we can have no idea which synths are capable of the same code, which ones already have it but haven't been able to express it etc etc; in which case all synths would deserve "human" rights; not just the ones specifically coded and deliberately made.

 

 

 

** Sex-bot before being taken by the avagers and sold to the brothel. On this - why do some people think that Leo sent her to the brothel? she was captured whilst out of charge, and sold the the brothel - Leo left her there later when he "couldn't take her now" for no valid reason (unless he really needed Mia to keep Niska in line; in which case that still needs to be made clear)

 

ETA - best not to get me started on Vera and the socialised health care thing; that conversations thankfully seems to have died, completely missed the point, and mostly gave evidence against itself in the first place.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Which Tyler

[Tara Ariano]

Sex with a synth is no more disgusting than sex with a blow-up doll, or vibrator (again, excepting the ones with partial emotions)....Joe on the other hand is using a masturbatory aid - no worse than a blow-up doll or vibrator - not even close to rape. Bare in mind - he's not anthropomorphising Anita.

 

I think his bashfulness when he had to inspect Anita for damage suggested that he does ascribe at least some human attributes to her. As well, as soon as they had finished having sex, his behaviour struck me as very shameful -- he wanted her to go back to her non-Adult Options mode immediately, even though there was no one else around to witness the difference in her manner. However you define the sex act, it seemed clear to me that, when it was over, he didn't think it was okay, and took pains to hide it, including (momentarily) letting his son take the blame for it.

 

Joe has certainly rationalized this event in exactly the ways you've described, but my sense is not that the show is presenting him to us as a wronged victim of Laura's overreaction. Pretty much every other character is appalled by him -- with the exception of the friend whose couch he's sleeping on, who wouldn't know about the Anita/Mia dichotomy, since Joe doesn't even hear about it until later in the episode and, as far as we know, didn't share that with this guy. Since we only know what living in a world with synths is like based on what we can triangulate from the various ethical positions of the show's humans, it seems safe to regard the responses of Joe's family members as reasonable under the circumstances, and take his furtiveness and subterfuge as proof of his own feelings of guilt.

[Which Tyler]

Uncomfortableness and guilt which plenty of people feel about masturbation, and even more so, about using masturbatory aids. Until the advent of broadband, porn was viewed in much the same way; until Sex in the City, vibrators were viewed in much the same way; fleshlights (google it) or blow-up-dolls still are viewed that way - hell, porn is still viewed that way (why do you think "private browsing" really exists?).

 

Joe is not the only person presented as having had sex with a synth - he's just the only one being stigmatised about it. There are synth brothels, there is the very existence of the adult mode; presented with a nod and a wink. I get the impression from the show that most, or at least, very very many people are at it; but it's still in that "dirty little secret" stage - just like porn and vibrators used to be.

 

Again, look at the dichotomy on these boards - Joe is an aresehole rapist. Jill is an amusing misadventure. Mind you, that fits my theory above - people are happy to buy mum a vibrator; dads still get kicked out if their porn stash is discovered.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Which Tyler

[Tara Ariano]

Joe is not the only person presented as having had sex with a synth - he's just the only one being stigmatised about it. There are synth brothels, there is the very existence of the adult mode; presented with a nod and a wink. I get the impression from the show that most, or at least, very very many people are at it; but it's still in that "dirty little secret" stage - just like porn and vibrators used to be.

 

Again, look at the dichotomy on these boards - Joe is an aresehole rapist. Jill is an amusing misadventure. Mind you, that fits my theory above - people are happy to buy mum a vibrator; dads still get kicked out if their porn stash is discovered.

 

I didn't say anything about Jill and I don't think her experience was amusing. She definitely didn't seem to think it was amusing, and the event seemed like it caused her to reconsider her beliefs about synths and what is appropriate or wise to do with them -- something I think is the biggest question the show is raising and grappling with, not just with regard to sex.

 

If Joe is "the only one being stigmatised" about his sex with Anita, it may be because he's married and he and his wife apparently didn't have an arrangement in place where he was free to have sex with humans or humanlike animate objects, based on the fact that she kicked him out when she learned that he had. His wife doesn't consider Anita tantamount to a Fleshlight: "She lives in our house, looks after our children, and you're calling her a sex toy." Anita isn't a fembot in a brothel. There was no understanding between Joe and Laura that having sex with him was one of the tasks Anita was going to be performing when Laura agreed to keep her.

 

I'd also argue that Joe isn't the "only one" whose sexual activity with synths is being treated, by the show, with disapproval: none of the men we saw Niska with at the brothel seemed like he was gentlemanly, particularly the last one whose requests she pretty emphatically refused. I also don't get the sense from what she says about David Elster in this episode that the sex they had was okay with her, which to me is ultimately the issue with Joe and Anita. If Anita were a synth like Jill's, I could almost accept your argument that she's just a device for human pleasure. But this episode makes it clear that Mia's consciousness has been alive all along. Joe didn't know at the time that there was more to Anita than there is to any other synth, and he may not want to believe it now despite what every other member of his family is trying to get him to understand because facing it would mean he had to admit to himself that what he did was tantamount to having sex with a coma patient: Mia was in there, conscious, and unable to consent.

 

The way the show is presenting Joe's actions is, to me, the biggest clue as to their morality in the show's universe. Calling the cops on Leo and Max isn't the act of a misunderstood hero. Throwing his teenaged son under the bus to conceal what I'll generously call his sexual indiscretion: ditto. But you seem to be focused on the technicalities of Joe's choices with regard to Anita's Adult Options, as opposed to engaging with these events as the show presents them -- namely, that the other humans in Joe's family, who also live in a world with synths, think what he did was gross and did even before they knew Mia, with her consciousness, was in Anita when he did it.

 

So are you arguing with the show for how it's presenting synths to us, in the non-synth world? That is, is your view that the invention of synths who have consciousness is a circumstance that entrapped Joe into fornicating with what he mistakenly thought was an insensate machine in his house because he physically could, no different from a man in our world having sex with a Dustbuster?

 

Or is it that you think there are people on this thread who are fundamentally misreading the world of the show?

[Which Tyler]

I didn't say anything about Jill and I don't think her experience was amusing. She definitely didn't seem to think it was amusing, and the event seemed like it caused her to reconsider her beliefs about synths and what is appropriate or wise to do with them -- something I think is the biggest question the show is raising and grappling with, not just with regard to sex.

No, but I did, as have others on these boards - "amusing misadventure" was a direct quote.

She presumably found sex with the synth amusing enough to do it again, and to have him illegally modded to better suit her preference.

Her reaction to the illegal mod going wrong is a reaction to an illegal mod going wrong, not a reaction to having sex with a synth.

However, I completely agree with your last point above.

If Joe is "the only one being stigmatised" about his sex with Anita, it may be because he's married and he and his wife apparently didn't have an arrangement in place where he was free to have sex with humans or humanlike animate objects, based on the fact that she kicked him out when she learned that he had. His wife doesn't consider Anita tantamount to a Fleshlight: "She lives in our house, looks after our children, and you're calling her a sex toy." Anita isn't a fembot in a brothel. There was no understanding between Joe and Laura that having sex with him was one of the tasks Anita was going to be performing when Laura agreed to keep her.

Well, his is the only family we're seeing. His wife doesn't consider Anita to be tantamout to a fleshlight - he does; others seem to (or at least, a fleshlight/vibrator with other uses).

Yes, she kicked him out of the house when she found out - just like other wives have done in discovering a husband's porn stash or fleshlight.

Some people think it's adultery, others don't; both opinions are valid.

I'd also argue that Joe isn't the "only one" whose sexual activity with synths is being treated, by the show, with disapproval: none of the men we saw Niska with at the brothel seemed like he was gentlemanly, particularly the last one whose requests she pretty emphatically refused. I also don't get the sense from what she says about David Elster in this episode that the sex they had was okay with her, which to me is ultimately the issue with Joe and Anita. If Anita were a synth like Jill's, I could almost accept your argument that she's just a device for human pleasure. But this episode makes it clear that Mia's consciousness has been alive all along. Joe didn't know at the time that there was more to Anita than there is to any other synth, and he may not want to believe it now despite what every other member of his family is trying to get him to understand because facing it would mean he had to admit to himself that what he did was tantamount to having sex with a coma patient: Mia was in there, conscious, and unable to consent.

Brothel =/= home environment. People frequenting brothels =/= representative sample of all men.

"If Anita were a synth like Jill's..." That's exactly my point, no-one knew that Anita wasn't a synth like Jill's. Anita didn't know, Joe didn't know, and didn't have any reason whatsoever to suspect that it might be the case. Of the billion synth.s out there in the world, 0 are known to be anything other than synth.s. As viewers, we know there are 4 (or 5, or 6) out of a billion; Joe has absolutely no reason to suspect even that any, let alone that Anita is one of them.

 

I agree with your analogy of the coma patient; were the coma patient walking around, talking and acting like an otherwise completely normal and consensual person. However, to make your analogy more analogous; had professor Charles Xavier implanted the consciousness of a coma patient into another human being who consensually had sex with someone, I would not consider that person to be a rapist; though I would consider the coma patient to be a rape victim. It doesn't mean that there's no crime, just that there's no fault (or that the fault lies with the evil bastard that implanted the coma patient's consciousness into a functional human being).

The way the show is presenting Joe's actions is, to me, the biggest clue as to their morality in the show's universe. Calling the cops on Leo and Max isn't the act of a misunderstood hero. Throwing his teenaged son under the bus to conceal what I'll generously call his sexual indiscretion: ditto. But you seem to be focused on the technicalities of Joe's choices with regard to Anita's Adult Options, as opposed to engaging with these events as the show presents them -- namely, that the other humans in Joe's family, who also live in a world with synths, think what he did was gross and did even before they knew Mia, with her consciousness, was in Anita when he did it.

I've never claimed Joe to be a misunderstood hero - so I'll ignore that straw-man. However, I will say that this show isn't showing much in the way of answers; it's posing questions for the audience to answer on our own, and deliberately making the answer non-obvious. I would certainly suggest that anyone who finds such answers to be obvious is missing something.

 

Not really focussed on the technicalities - I focussed on the context. You see the family's reaction as an exact reaction to infidelity and rape; I see the reaction as a reaction to porn stash from the dark old days where everyone did it, no-one admitted it, and discovery would break up families - even your own language supports this; it's "gross" not cheating, not rape.

If you want to look at the context, the only person on the show who has acted as if Joe shagging Anita was rape is Joe once he found out about Mia, and that she was there and aware the whole time.

So are you arguing with the show for how it's presenting synths to us, in the non-synth world? That is, is your view that the invention of synths who have consciousness is a circumstance that entrapped Joe into fornicating with what he mistakenly thought was an insensate machine in his house because he physically could, no different from a man in our world having sex with a Dustbuster?

No; so I'll ignore the straw-man as well.

Or is it that you think there are people on this thread who are fundamentally misreading the world of the show?

Yes - you can tell by the way I said "Why is there so much projection on these boards?" and went on to tackle exactly what I saw as a fundamental misreading of the world of the show; and gave my counter-opinion.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Which Tyler

[Tara Ariano]

Okay. I don't think either of us is going to change the other's mind on this matter.

[Which Tyler]

Just speaking for myself, I wasn't trying to change anyone's mind. Always an exercise in futility.

 

I was merely trying to present a different way of interpreting things. I don't think in am right, I don't think you are right. I don't think there's any such thing as "right".

 

This is all subjective interpretation of deliberately ambiguous material after all.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Which Tyler

[Primetimer]

Anita and Mia come into their/her own.

Read the story

[editorgrrl]

Once again, the AMC preview for the next episode spoils an important plot point before I even get a chance to process the impact of this episode.

[kieyra]

I have the same basic frustration with the show, which an AVClub recapper summed up more succinctly than I'm going to be able to, but it's basically: why are they framing the questions of "should sentient synths be treated as people?" through the lens of a family who doesn't bloody know they're sentient to begin with?

I've felt all along this was a fundamental flaw with the setup that, at best, makes the world look like human-identical synth tech was dropped wholesale into a society that was psychologically incapable of dealing with it. And that's completely leaving aside the question of sentience.

Put another way, people were already losing their shit about the synths even before they had to try thinking of them as people.

[CarpeDiem54]

Wow! Great episode. Joe, I hate your guts. I cried at the end - poor Max. His scene when he was praying was heartwrenching.

Pete's wife has sex with her synth, although it appeared that it was a little too mechanical and somewhat unsatisfying -- and things go awry when she asks the synth to be random and unexpected, so Pete has to beat him until he is no longer functional.  And despite basically saving her from being raped by her synth, Pete's wife still won't let him back in the house.

This apparently is the scene in this episode that AMC cut out. This really pisses me off. All of the deleted scenes with Pete's wife and her synth really change the perception we have of Pete, and consequently, his relationship with Karen.

[SlovakPrincess]

Well, that explains why Max seems so innocent -- he's the baby of the family!    Poor Max -- I should've known something scary would happen to him after they built him up as the sweetest guy ever.   I really hope Max will "live" somehow ... the actor does an amazing job.  

 

Fred and Niska must get along famously ... they both get pretty violent when they feel it's necessary!  

 

I enjoyed Niska and George bonding over Odi.  And George refusing to be scared of Niska.  

 

This whole time I've been thinking of Mia and Leo as lovers.  Now that I know she's like his mom, I feel kinda weird, lol.

 

Laura and Mattie had some nice moments tougher this episode.  The family's concern for the synth family was touching.  

 

The Pete / Karen storyline moved along a bit faster than I expected! 

[Bryce Lynch]

Whatever you think about Joe, he did the right thing, perhaps for the wrong reason, by calling the police.

Hobb was an absolute fool for not destroying Fred and Mattie and Laura, while well meaning, have no clue how dangerous what they are doing is.

The sentient synths are a grave, existential threat to mankind. Fred and Niska both seem to have a desire to dominate or destroy mankind, though George seems to be mellowing out Niska a bit.

[riverheightsnancy]

Great episode. Very moving on a variety of levels. Really felt for Mia and Niska. 

[TonyMicheaux]

I'm a bit confused, maybe I missed something. I though the wife of the cop was paralyzed or something and couldn't walk on her own, yet she was walking fine tonight?  In past episodes she had to be carried by the synth and Pete once to the bathroom to both their awkwardness.

she wasn't paralyzed at all she could move but it was painful and she was going  through some kind of therapy.

[EverCat]

Wow! Great episode. Joe, I hate your guts. I cried at the end - poor Max. His scene when he was praying was heartwrenching.

This apparently is the scene in this episode that AMC cut out. This really pisses me off. All of the deleted scenes with Pete's wife and her synth really change the perception we have of Pete, and consequently, his relationship with Karen.

And all those deleted scenes are plot points discussed here (so definitely not minor). I'd prefer AMC replace the spoilers/

previews with the scenes they are deleting.

They better find and revive Max.

[TonyMicheaux]

Uncomfortableness and guilt which plenty of people feel about masturbation, and even more so, about using masturbatory aids. Until the advent of broadband, porn was viewed in much the same way; until Sex in the City, vibrators were viewed in much the same way; fleshlights (google it) or blow-up-dolls still are viewed that way - hell, porn is still viewed that way (why do you think "private browsing" really exists?).

 

Joe is not the only person presented as having had sex with a synth - he's just the only one being stigmatised about it. There are synth brothels, there is the very existence of the adult mode; presented with a nod and a wink. I get the impression from the show that most, or at least, very very many people are at it; but it's still in that "dirty little secret" stage - just like porn and vibrators used to be.

 

Again, look at the dichotomy on these boards - Joe is an aresehole rapist. Jill is an amusing misadventure. Mind you, that fits my theory above - people are happy to buy mum a vibrator; dads still get kicked out if their porn stash is discovered.

lol I see what you are trying to say and don't agree at all and even if Anita was not conscious i would still think joe was a creep/weirdo. Japan  has sex dolls that are almost life like but they are more in the uncanny valley and the men who use them are still seen as creepy and weirdos  by the general population. Im sorry if you can't get laid and have to fuck a blow up doll , a fake pussy or some other tool in my opinion you are a weirdo /creep and i know alot of people who think of it that way.

Wow! Great episode. Joe, I hate your guts. I cried at the end - poor Max. His scene when he was praying was heartwrenching.

This apparently is the scene in this episode that AMC cut out. This really pisses me off. All of the deleted scenes with Pete's wife and her synth really change the perception we have of Pete, and consequently, his relationship with Karen.

i was wondering what the hell everyone was talking about i watched the whole episode and didn't see jill nor her synth once. I wasl ike when did this happen for a sceond i thought i had missed an episode

 

it looks like Fred will get revived in the next episode or so he is not dead lol that was a cheap fakeout

Right just caught up - or as caught up as I can be with 2 teens who ask to watch the show, then ignore it for a multitude of conversations on phones / skypes and across the living room.

 

Why is there so much projection on these boards?

Synths are synths; they are machines with no feelings, no emotions; they are not human. On top of that we've got 1 cyborg and 5 synths with partial emotions*

Sex with a synth is no more disgusting than sex with a blow-up doll, or vibrator (again, excepting the ones with partial emotions).

The teens powering off the synth to shag it is disgusting as indicative behaviour; they're projecting / anthropomorphisising onto the synth, and then learning and reinforcing awful behaviour. I see this as more the equivalent of pulling the legs off insect and then dissecting a stray cat for the cliche growing psychopath. It's also reminiscent of plenty of real-life teen rape cases. And absolutely, well played Mattie.

 

Joe on the other hand is using a masturbatory aid - no worse than a blow-up doll or vibrator - not even close to rape. Bare in mind - he's not anthropomorphising Anita.

Funny how when Joe activates Anita's adult option it's rape, when Jill does the same.. and then some; it's an amusing misadventure. (Yes, yes, I know, Anita's one of the emotional ones; but it's also been stated many times that it's about how Joe sees her, not how she actually is and has no way of suspecting she is).

 

 

*Now, Leo and "his" 4 synths. My guess here is that Dr Estler did manage, over the years to programme a more-or-less complete ability to emote, feel etc; and that this is the end-game for the series; and that he basically split it 4 ways between these synths, as his needs at the time developed; so Mia has the empathy and nurture; Niska has the self-worth and some of the darker sides to humanity (utter cruelty / idiocy of giving the self-worth to the sex-bot**); We haven't really seen enough of Max and Fred; but it seems that Max is the clever, analytical one capable of faith (made to be Leo's high-achieving friend, capable of turning to God, dispair and utter faith in Leo); whilst Fred seems to be the hard-working, get stuff done one (probably made to protect and do the heavy lifting around the Elster home.

I also have this sneaking feeling that Dr Estler himself may have died in mysterious circumstances - AKA Niska; everyone seems a little too blasé about his death.

 

Karen / Robocop. My guess here is that she's a more natural evolution of synths; not a deliberately made lines of code, but a million monkeys in front of a typewriter - type scenario where she's been able to better mimic humans, and escape (probably for plot convenience) her previous life. Her interest in Leo's 4 would be her feeling of not wanting to be alone. Her very existence leads to much more scary answers of the same questions posed by deliberately coding emotional AI. If it's capable of developing on it's own, then we can have no idea which synths are capable of the same code, which ones already have it but haven't been able to express it etc etc; in which case all synths would deserve "human" rights; not just the ones specifically coded and deliberately made.

 

 

 

** Sex-bot before being taken by the avagers and sold to the brothel. On this - why do some people think that Leo sent her to the brothel? she was captured whilst out of charge, and sold the the brothel - Leo left her there later when he "couldn't take her now" for no valid reason (unless he really needed Mia to keep Niska in line; in which case that still needs to be made clear)

 

ETA - best not to get me started on Vera and the socialised health care thing; that conversations thankfully seems to have died, completely missed the point, and mostly gave evidence against itself in the first place.

 

 

idk  were some posts in this thread deleted because i don't see anything  suggesting half of the stuff u said lol the psots talking about joe and rape and the socialized healthcare are in like other episode threads so im jsut reading this and im like what the hell is the guy/girl rambling on about lol

Edited August 3, 2015 by TonyMicheaux

[scrb]

So Paul couldn't perform and then finds out Karen is a synth and he becomes sick?

[CoderLady]

I thought he did but was apologizing for being out of practice. Karen did say something about how now she understood what people saw in it, so it couldn't have been all that bad, though.

[shrewd.buddha]

Currently, this is the show we most look forward to  (until Walking Dead and some other shows start back up in the Fall).

It's really hitting its stride and - for the most part - seems to be a well written show.

 

I like how Mattie and Laura have emerged as MVP's - and more so because the show did not make this obvious from the start.

 

I can sympathize with Joe. His character was set up to be a fall guy - but I think he isn't  bad person  basically (unlike the party boys who would have taken a de-powered synth, or passed out girl, and done stuff to her).  Joe used an android that he bought - which clearly came with an "adult option" mode. And he took advantage of that. Joe's family was in a downward spiral and it appears Laura has been keeping him shut out - in many ways - for quite a while . (I believe some people actually want to be caught in order to finally "break the camel's back" when it comes to a relationship that isn't working.) (just my opinion) 

 

 

I feel it's the show's fault for setting up a situation where a robot that can be both a nanny and sexbot is available for purchase by a family.  That's sort of cheating - just so we can have this sort of situation. Someone called one of the synth's "an invaluable piece of technology" - which makes me wonder how an average family could afford such an above-average android. 

It also seems like cheating when the show makes the androids look very human (because they are, actually). Why does George's nurse need to be frumpy and look middle-aged? Do the androids smell like plastic? Do they have pheromones? The fake skin technology is probably more of a sci-fi breakthrough than the A.I. emotions - but the show doesn't want to quibble with those details.

 

Still - a really good show. And I'm wondering what Karen's deal is.. 

Edited August 3, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[editorgrrl]

I feel it's the show's fault for setting up a situation where a robot that can be both a nanny and sexbot is available for purchase by a family. That's sort of cheating—just so we can have this sort of situation.

Someone called one of the synths "an invaluable piece of technology"—which makes me wonder how an average family could afford such an above-average android.

Yes, the story is improbable, but I can suspend disbelief. And Joe said Anita was discounted: "Special offer. Over five years, less than we pay for the car."

Edited August 3, 2015 by editorgrrl

[Sakura12]

The Hawking's didn't strike me as poor. They have a decent size house, Laura's a Lawyer and Joe seems to have a decent job as well. I could also go with the iSynth store would obviously know that Anita was a refurbished model and put her on special for the first person that walked in looking for a cheaper model. 

[shrewd.buddha]

I enjoy sci-fi, so I have no problems with a high level of suspension of disbelief.  (Some shows manage to go too far, but HUMANS is doing a good job, imo.)

 

In the movie AI (Stephen Spielberg), the android actors were given special makeup to make them look sort of plastic and too symmetrically perfect (sexbots as well as little boybots). 

HUMANS, while being interesting and well written, seems as if they really want the audience to anthropomorphize the androids by just using the actors with little or no prosthetic makeup to hide wrinkles, moles, freckles. etc. 

I think this is the kind of storytelling cheating I was talking about. Because, of course we are going to empathize with Anita/Mia as a victim because she looks exactly like a real woman - minus the blank expression and calculated head tilts. 

 

So, when I see Anita, Niska, Odie, etc , what I'm thinking is : The show doesn't have a budget to afford expensive special effects and prosthetics. But if it did they would probably not make the synths look so 'real' -- and then I wouldn't anthropomorphize as much. 

I know that if I lived in this world and could afford an android housekeeper, I would specifically request a sexless, non gender specific , faceless model -- because the last thing I would want is to feel so bad for the robot vacuuming the house that I would feel obliged to help out.. 

Edited August 3, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[scrb]

It's one thing to have software code which makes the synth sentient.  But wouldn't they need to have a nervous system to feel?

 

Niksa implied that her father molested her.  Then she's victimized again in the brothel.

 

But when Anita is run over, she doesn't feel it.

[Sakura12]

I'm guessing Niska was meant to feel, to give a more realistic sexual experience. They also said they can turn off their ability to feel. Anita being reprogrammed to a non-sentient Synth didn't have her's turned on. Case in point when Joe was having sex with her she just lay there like a lifeless robot. 

Edited August 3, 2015 by Sakura12

[Bryce Lynch]

It's one thing to have software code which makes the synth sentient. But wouldn't they need to have a nervous system to feel?

Niksa implied that her father molested her. Then she's victimized again in the brothel.

But when Anita is run over, she doesn't feel it.

In an early episode Leo asked Niska if she had turned off her pain while in the brothel. She said she had not because she was meant to feel. So the AI synths apparently have the ability to turn pain on and off.

While Mia was Anita her pain would be off as the program controlling her was that of a standard synth.

[Quilt Fairy]

Glad I didn't FF through a scene that others were talking about, apparently the scene with Pete's wife and her synth having sex was cut for the US airing. I wonder if it was cut purely for time or was it too racy for AMC?

 

I get that having Anita do that GASP! whenever Mia comes to the surface makes it obvious to the audience that something is happening, but synths don't breath, and the idea that she suddenly needs air is stupid. They're really hitting us over the head with it when something more subtle would be more appropriate.

[Sakura12]

It wasn't racy at all. They showed us after the deed was done. Pete's wife was asking if Simon can be a little more spontaneous, he replied that he was at the correct position for optimal entry. It seems that sex with a Synth is not that satisfying. I wonder if the Sex Worker Synths have more options and/or abilities that the home versions don't have?

Edited August 3, 2015 by Sakura12

[Yolapukka]

 

Glad I didn't FF through a scene that others were talking about, apparently the scene with Pete's wife and her synth having sex was cut for the US airing. I wonder if it was cut purely for time or was it too racy for AMC?

 

This is annoying as hell to me. Pete may not be a main character, but he is still an important one and those scenes go a long way to explaining his increasing antipathy to Synths. I've looked on the AMC site and if the deleted scenes are included among the "extras", I can't find them. They should be.

[rubyred]

Not happy to have missed the Pete/wife/Simon scene either. And was there another snipped scene that explained why Vera was so complaisant while Niska and George discussed...everything? I kept waiting for her to bust through a door but there she was, sitting in the parlor!

[BensBritches]

Finally a point for me for guessing Mia was actually a mother figure to Leo and not a lover. While Max's "death" was sad, it didn't affect me as much as it could because I don't think he's really gone for good.  I loved his line, "If I die, than I've lived" or however he said it!

 

I did cry when Mia and Leo were reunited.  I felt like a baby, but that scene just got to me (maybe because I lost my Mom 15 years ago and would do anything to be reunited with her...).

 

Loved Niska and George together.  I love how he clearly has some fear of her, but isn't afraid to stand up to her.  And yes, now knowing that Niska was created to be a sexbot, it makes her current behavior/feelings/outlook make that much more sense.

 

Bummed that all of the Pete and Jill story is being deleted here in the US.  I watched episodes 1-5 in the UK, so this was my first experience with the deleted scenes.  Seems like AMC is under-developing Pete's character, although I'm not sure why.  Maybe in the end, his character has little to do with the outcome? I think there was also a deleted scene of Max carrying the uncharged Leo with Mattie tagging along back to the warehouse/bar or whatever, as I saw photos of this on a Colin Morgan fansite. 

 

I am a bit confused still about Leo's age... He said he died at the age of 13. We know Mia is 14, Niska is 9 and Max is the youngest (did Leo say anything about Fred's age?  I think he was between Mia and Niska).  All of them were "born/made" before Leo died, IIRC, so that means the accident had to have happened no more than 8 years ago (assuming Max was created right after Niska).  That would place Leo at the age of 21.  He certainly doesn't look or come across as a 21 year old, so I am struggling with the time line a bit.  Maybe being a human/synth hybrid has cause some premature aging.  Not that the timeline here is all that off, as I was thinking Leo was probably about 25 or so... but if Max is less than 8 years old, that means Leo is less than 21!

 

Finally, as others have noted, the previews seem to have given two things away, related to Max and Karen.  Not sure if my thinking is correct on these fronts, but I felt it was sort of clear how Karen is connected to Leo and the Fab 4...

 

Bummed there are only 2 episodes left, but I believe they are looking into doing a second series, so that's good.

[editorgrrl]

I am a bit confused still about Leo's age... He said he died at the age of 13. We know Mia is 14, Niska is 9 and Max is the youngest (did Leo say anything about Fred's age? I think he was between Mia and Niska).

All of them were "born/made" before Leo died, IIRC, so that means the accident had to have happened no more than 8 years ago (assuming Max was created right after Niska). That would place Leo at the age of 21. He certainly doesn't look or come across as a 21 year old, so I am struggling with the time line a bit. Maybe being a human/synth hybrid has cause some premature aging. Not that the timeline here is all that off, as I was thinking Leo was probably about 25 or so... but if Max is less than 8 years old, that means Leo is less than 21!

Leo died when he was 13, and Mia is at least 14. I couldn't tell whether the others were created before or after Leo died. And I thought Fred had the drowning memory because the family shares information, not that he was actually there. Colin Morgan is 29, and Leo is probably younger than that. But I'm not sure if he's supposed to be 21.

I also don't understand if Leo's father is dead, or if he's just been MIA since he abandoned the family. And we know Laura's a lawyer, but what is Tom's job?

Edited August 3, 2015 by editorgrrl

[fauntleroy]

Not happy to have missed the Pete/wife/Simon scene either. Andwas there another snipped scene that explained why Vera was so complaisant while Niska and George discussed...everything? I kept waiting for her to bust through a door but there she was, sitting in the parlor!

 

Didn't George deboot her? I think he said if the synth powers down for too long, the office is notified.

 

I could also go with the iSynth store would obviously know that Anita was a refurbished model and put her on special for the first person that walked in looking for a cheaper model.

 

She was sold as brand new. I presume if the store knew she had been hacked or was old, they would simply have scrapped her.

 

Similar to what others have said above, since the robots are 99.9% lifelike, and the .1% is only acting, it's natural to anthropomorphize. If you can't anthropomorphize Anita, who can you anthropomorphize? It is a cheat--I would definitely have the hots for a robot housekeeper who looks exactly like Gemma Chan.

 

Also, I remember learning 'anthropomorphize' in a high-school vocab book and scoffing ya I bet that'll be a word I bandy about on a regular basis.

[Armchair Critic]

This apparently is the scene in this episode that AMC cut out. This really pisses me off. All of the deleted scenes with Pete's wife and her synth really change the perception we have of Pete, and consequently, his relationship with Karen.

 

Thank you! I was wondering how I missed that part and now I know AMC cut it out.

[Tara Ariano]

Bummed there are only 2 episodes left, but I believe they are looking into doing a second series, so that's good.

 

Yeah, I think I read about that somewhere.

[BensBritches]

Leo died when he was 13, and Mia is at least 14. I couldn't tell whether the others were created before or after Leo died. And I thought Fred had the drowning memory because the family shares information, not that he was actually there. Colin Morgan is 29, and Leo is probably younger than that. But I'm not sure if he's supposed to be 21.

 

I will have to check my recording, but I thought in the memory scene when Leo came back to life, all the synths were there, watching and waiting to see if he could be "rebuilt". If that is the case, it would mean they were all created prior to Leo dying. A lot about the ages of the synths confuse me.  Like Mia only being 14 years old, yet being created as a replacement for Leo's mother.  I can absolutely be misremembering the scenes from last night, but I thought there were memory scenes of Mia pushing Leo in a swing, helping tie his shoe or clean up a wound.  That doesn't seem like the behavior one would to with a 13 year old, so my guess is Leo was quite young when Mia was first built.  Going with my original theory that Leo is 21, he would have been 7 (and older) when these events he remembers with Mia took place, which also seems a bit old (again, I'll concede that my human brain may not be remembering exactly what Leo's memories consisted of) to be pushed in a swing...