S01.E10: Cycle

[jhlipton]

My interpretation of the post I quoted was that the original poster was saying that they weren't monitoring the abbies, and I was saying that they showed Pilcher doing just that.  I never said I thought that made any sense.

 

The original original poster (SoothingDave) said "I think the abbies on the screen were picked up by surveillance via heat:" 

 

What about IR sensors mounted in trees?

 

 

.and yet, in the end, I still found it a pretty enjoyable, entertaining watch.  ::shrug::

 

That would have been fine if someone had said "During one of the Abbie's migrations, we put IR sensors in the trees."  Because otherwise, how do they get there?

As far as I'm concerned, you have nothing to apologize for -- I watch (and enjoy) Teen Wolf!

[janie jones]

The original original poster (SoothingDave) said "I think the abbies on the screen were picked up by surveillance via heat:" 

I'm not sure what you're talking about, because I read my post, and who I quoted was you, saying

"What surveillance? They have never shown aerial footage like this (nor did they mention the "migration"!), so is the helicopter up? Do they have drones? There was nothing in the previous episodes to show this.

Do you mean that I misunderstood, and you were not saying that you didn't think they showed that Pilcher had aerial footage of the abbies?

[fishcakes]

I've seen the first two episodes--which I call "100% questions, 0% answers"--and I have the last eight on DVR.  But this very post has inspired me to delete the whole magilla.

 

I would say the first five episodes are worth watching; they have a nicely done moodiness and the existence of the mystery is interesting. The major question ("WTF is this place?") gets answered in episode 5, after which the entire series goes to shit. However, I would even say episode 6 is worth watching just for the flashbacks, but the problem is that you've now watched more than half the series and if you're a completionist, you might feel compelled to finish it out, which is how I ended up watching episodes 7 through 10 even though I spent those four hours shaking my head ruefully.

[SlackerInc]

I've seen the first two episodes--which I call "100% questions, 0% answers"--and I have the last eight on DVR.  But this very post has inspired me to delete the whole magilla.

 

Too late for you, but you saved others.  [iMDb emoticon saluting with the frothy beer mug]

 

I would have suggested (were they not already deleted) just going straight to episode 5.  That answers all the questions you are basically going to get answered (though leaving others, like why they gaslighted/tortured Ethan so much, frustratingly unanswered).  Then you can decide if you want to go forward with a sci-fi show set in a postapocalyptic future.

[riverheightsnancy]

I haven't read the books, but even if some say they there were not so good, they still had something that people liked. I think it was an interesting premise that in terms of adaptation for TV might have been better undertaken by saving some aspects of the big reveal for the very end. I bet that a real thorough reworking of the script with all major big reveals at the end, may have made for a much better show all the way around. Perhaps looking at making some of the issues that people complained about better explained or left out, would have made the show more viable (like the crickets and being able to store stuff for 2000 years).  I will put in a plug for another show while I am at it. If anyone likes scifi-ish shows, 12 Monkeys on SyFY is really worth it. 

[jhlipton]

 

I'm not sure what you're talking about, because I read my post, and who I quoted was you

 

Do you mean that I misunderstood, and you were not saying that you didn't think they showed that Pilcher had aerial footage of the abbies?

 

 

Correct.  I was saying that they definitely showed that Pilcher had aerial footage of the abbies, but where did that footage come from?  The most likely probability (and we don't know because the show didn't tell us) is that Pilcher had some kind of IR surveillance in the forest -- but what kind and how did it get there?

 

Sorry for any confusion! 

[dr pepper]

I figured it out. Abbies have ultrasonic hearing. There's a special control, which Pilcher never told his regular minions about, which causes the cricket boxes to go into shrieking bat mode. Megan knows about it and set it off after everyone had either escaped or got killed. The abbies fled, carrying their lunch with htem.

[kat165]

I like what Slacker said about misdirection as that's what happened for me. I thought this would be an interesting mystery and was in for the first few episodes. I do like sci-fi but this seemed more horror to me. I missed the abby when we first see Pope get dragged off by one, but the next time we saw one I was seriously disappointed. I'm not interested in zombies, vampires, werewolves and animal hoards running amuck, etc. After that I stayed in to see where it would go/give it a chance, but as soon as the reveal was, well, revealed I started loathing this show. By the end I was actively loathing it.

 

I never watch a show for mindless entertainment or because I'm bored or because it's summer, got better things to do. I want to be engaged and/or entertained in some way.

 

This was just another Under the Dome type crapfest. I stayed with to see it out, but I'm so disappointed and wish I hadn't wasted my time. I think the next show I consider viewing I'm going to do a little research before investing my time.

 

I'll also put in a plug for 12 Monkeys. Very well done. Most eps were riveting and for the most part very well thought out. A comment like Beverly's "I believe you every time" would get answered eventually in 12 Monkeys & possibly blow your mind with the answer. Wayward Pines on the other hand just blows.

[candall]

I would say the first five episodes are worth watching; they have a nicely done moodiness and the existence of the mystery is interesting. The major question ("WTF is this place?") gets answered in episode 5, after which the entire series goes to shit.

 

 

I would have suggested (were they not already deleted) just going straight to episode 5.  

Yes!  I appreciate this input--thank you for taking the time to clue me in.

 

I was holding out to see if the finale delivered because the comment threads for the first two episodes had so many people who were enthralled with the book and the clever nature of the mystery. 

 

I'm one of those weirdos who checks out the ending first and then enjoys the book for how the author gets there and whether s/he cheats on the journey.  (Lesson learned in my teens after the villain in a 400 page whodunit by Straub turned out to be an alien with supernatural powers.  Chain, yanked.)

 

Off to S.01/E.05. 

 

Season 2:  Teenbotz Rule?  Ha. 

Edited July 27, 2015 by candall

[legaleagle53]

Yes!  I appreciate this input--thank you for taking the time to clue me in.

 

I was holding out to see if the finale delivered because the comment threads for the first two episodes had so many people who were enthralled with the book and the clever nature of the mystery. 

 

I'm one of those weirdos who checks out the ending first and then enjoys the book for how the author gets there and whether s/he cheats on the journey.  (Lesson learned in my teens after the villain in a 400 page whodunit by Straub turned out to be an alien with supernatural powers.  Chain, yanked.)

 

Off to S.01/E.05. 

 

Season 2:  Teenbotz Rule?  Ha. 

 

If you're really possessed by morbid curiosity at this point, candall, you can also watch the entire series at the FOX website if you live in the US.

[Kip Hackman]

Just finished the finale. This show was mindless summer tv.

I dug it.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Anybody else get the sense that Shyalaman really liked the ending of Burton's Planet of the Apes movie?

 

The ending to this seemed very similar to me, right down to the heroic statue of the "bad guy". 

 

It was better set up than Burton's ending, for sure, although the idea that the kids could take over and completely reinstate the town so easily is still far-fetched, IMHO.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[Timetoread]

Well that was crap.  I wasn't liking it and didn't really care what happened, but I finished to the end becuase I have a bad habit of finishing what I start - even when I see it's going nowhere. 

 

There was one thing I was hoping for, though.  I kept wondering about the Abbies.  I thought that an amazing twist would be that the Abbies break in, people escape WP and find out that farther outside the perimeter the Abbies have rebuilt Earth and it is beautiful.  Why?  Because supposedly Abbies were the EVOLUTION of mankind - as in they get BETTER.  Yeah they look fierce but they are highly intelligent and evolved past the pettiness that corrupted the last "batch" of humans that is "us".  Basically Planet of the Apes.  Still better than Children of the Corn, though.

 

One last question -  it's been a while for sure but I remember being a teenager.  Did we have a general disdain for the uncoolness that was our parents?  Absolutely.  But we didn't HATE our parents. No.  We loved and respected and, most of all, NEEDED them.  There is no way you would find more than two teenagers who would be willing to essentially kill their parents - or anybody else's parents for that matter - being a teen means that you lack judgement, not complete morals and sense.  Also, these kids probably couldn't run a washing machine let alone a town.  And since we only saw them learn to be fruitful and multiply, this would make no sense.  What would have made more sense is that they are all a bunch of Teen Moms and Dads screaming and crying "You're so mean to me!"  Who learned how to sculpt out of stone?  That would be a mural at best on the side of the road.

 

Blech.  Time for Empire to start up.

[Free]

Anybody else get the sense that Shyalaman really liked the ending of Burton's Planet of the Apes movie?

 

Shyamalan likes his twists, but he stopped doing them for his last few movies.

[lucindabelle]

I've been hate-watching since episode 5.

I was seriously enjoying the finale-- I like showdowns-- and the reveal that maybe Group A didn't go crazy but were sabotaged, that I could buy.

But that epilogue!
Dumbest. Thing. Ever. For all the reasons people have said. It's just completely implausible in every conceivable way.
if the adults had taken some of the kids (but not HY leader0 they might have bought their loyalty better; leaving them to die was cold since most of those kids didn't do the actual murdering.

But STILL. Sheesh.

If the Abbies migrate every year, why has there been no attempt every year to make the human area bigger? of course that would mean filling people in on the situation but why not just do that?

if the show had only ended with Pam and Kate getting along, I would have actually forgiven the show many things and felt satisfied.

No, I didn't dislike the ending because it was dark-- but because it was absurd. It felt tacked on JUST to have a twist and go gah.
Yes, who would sculpt? Who is a surgeon? Who is even an electrician to get carousel going?

I won't be back if there is a season 2. I'd read recaps to see if it kicked in. Life's too short.

 

ETA: Melissa Leo is awesome. She's actually only 2 or 3 years older than Hope Davis (Megan), which is interesting. Hope looks a lot younger. Genes! Both look great.

Edited July 27, 2015 by lucindabelle

[Mmazeo]

I'm a little surprised at how negative the reaction is. I liked how they ended the show, but I didn't like the ending if you follow. This episode needed another hour. Not another stand alone episode, but another hour where they could've given us at least some semblance of an idea on how the students took over. I like that they took over, but I really needed to see some of it.

I really enjoyed this show, glad I gave it a shot.

[Zanne]

This episode needed another hour. Not another stand alone episode, but another hour where they could've given us at least some semblance of an idea on how the students took over. I like that they took over, but I really needed to see some of it.

 

 

What this entire series needed was to weave the HY students throughout the episodes so we could see they were part of the town and were actually involved in things. They could've been causing trouble in every episode, not through outright revolt, but through their sense of entitlement. They could have made nasty comments to Ethan about how he was doing his job wrong or subtle leering at Theresa about how they wouldn't mind keeping her around if they were in charge. Ethan and Theresa could have talked about their run-ins with these kids and passed it off as evidence of the usual teenage discontent or the kids being brats since they were being raised in this gilded prison.

 

Then the kids go psycho and we see they have taken over the town. Then it would seem earned. It would make sense. Since we did not meet these kids until the last couple of episodes, it's like Kevin Costner showed up to deliver some mail in the last 15 minutes and staged a coup.

[SlackerInc]

There are definitely solid reasons behind the antipathy.  But, as I've said, somehow those things didn't add up to a total fail for me.  Comments sections on other sites are not nearly as overwhelmingly negative about this show; whether by chance or just something about this site's culture, it's been mostly a hatefest here.

Edited July 27, 2015 by SlackerInc

[jhlipton]

the reveal that maybe Group A didn't go crazy but were sabotaged, that I could buy.

 

Not me -- we were shown them going crazy.  Either everything on screen is true (which is what we were told) or we can't trust what's on screen at all.  They can't have it both ways!

[radishcake]

I don't know that I'd call it a "hatefest". It's hard in these days of cool sci-fi shows not to want one that will really BE as cool as it seems like it might. I don't think this one was written very well since it was trying to really cram a lot of info into such a short time frame. Some writers are really good at compression, some aren't. That doesn't mean I am hating, just that I'm disappointed that this wasn't as good as it could have been. 

[Clanstarling]

This may not be the right place to do this - but if you were intrigued by the concepts in Wayward Pines (whether or not the show ultimately worked for you - for me it did not, though I very much wanted it to), you might try Hugh Howey's Silo series: Wool (read the Omnibus edition), Shift (read the Omnibus edition), and Dust. I'm halfway through Shift, so I don't know how it ultimately works out. But so far, I think the writing and world building has been heads and above the little bit I've read of Wayward Pines.

Edited July 27, 2015 by clanstarling

[radishcake]

ooh thanks for the tip clanstarling! 

[izabella]

Not me -- we were shown them going crazy.  Either everything on screen is true (which is what we were told) or we can't trust what's on screen at all.  They can't have it both ways!

 

This is a huge problem for me with the show.  The first half was deceptive and mysterious and people were all lying and sneaking and doing shady things - especially Nurse Pam, Pilcher/Dr. Whatever, and Pope.  In the second half, I'm supposed to believe every word they say is true starting with the revelations to Ethan in the mountain.  I can't believe the first half characters in the second half because they were such liars in the first half.  So it just doesn't add up for me.

Edited July 28, 2015 by izabella

[lucindabelle]

We were shown that by an unreliable narrator. He was creating the images.

I choose not to believe it because it never rang the slightest bit true to me.

[SlackerInc]

Those images were also shown in the teaser, with no narration.

[lucindabelle]

Those images were also shown in the teaser, with no narration.

Teasers are notoriously misleading, so not convinced by that. All that means is that as a teaser, we were shown a bit of the story Pilcher told.

 

Look, you may be right, but that story makes such little sense to me (history's FULL of people taken from the world they knew who didn't go crazy, think African slaves, the Holocaust, etc.) that I didn't buy it for one second. That Pilcher somehow sabotaged it before as he tried this time is much more plausible. Maybe the writer didn't do that, probably even, since the ending where teenagers (onTV) magically become sculptors etc in just a few years is in this world, but I loathe and despise scifi "explanations" that have nor elation to human nature.

[SlackerInc]

But we've had several people on this forum say they didn't like the reveal because it meant there was "no point" to trying to perservere and survive, if the rest of humanity was gone.

[Kip Hackman]

That Pilcher somehow sabotaged it before as he tried this time is much more plausible.

 

That was my reading of it. The images of Group A "going crazy" looked pretty similar to the abbie attack on Group B.

[jhlipton]

We were shown that by an unreliable narrator. He was creating the images.

I choose not to believe it because it never rang the slightest bit true to me.

 

As I remember it, not quite.  I think Pilcher described what happened to Group A,  but while he was talking, we saw the images.  

 

That was my reading of it. The images of Group A "going crazy" looked pretty similar to the abbie attack on Group B.

 

Not the "bagged family".  If that image is true (it might not be -- I may be remembering incorrectly), then that family did not die from an abbie attack.

[Free]

But we've had several people on this forum say they didn't like the reveal because it meant there was "no point" to trying to perservere and survive, if the rest of humanity was gone.

 

Even moreso with the characters we have left tbh.

[FishyJoe]

If the abbies can climb the elevator shaft and seemingly have no fear of heights, why didn't they just climb down the mountain. Ethan didn't seem to have too much trouble climbing the mountain.

 

Also, once ethan blew the elevator up, what was to stop more abbies from climbing up the shaft?

[ottoDbusdriver]

If the abbies can climb the elevator shaft and seemingly have no fear of heights, why didn't they just climb down the mountain. Ethan didn't seem to have too much trouble climbing the mountain.

 

So much this.  If they can climb up an elevator shaft, they can climb down a rock face.  Those Abbies should have been swarming into WP (there were thousands of them outside the fence) down that area that Ethan climbed out of instead of waiting for fence lights to turn off.

[Jordan27]

After spending 10 episodes watching what was left of mankind take over civilization to restore some semblance of freedom, we get that awful ending.  What was the point of the show if that happened? 

 

Wayward Pines was a prison to begin with and now it's still a prison.  And we get some annoying teenage rejects from the 100 as the new leaders?!?!? 

 

I too thought the first 5-6 episodes were good, the next 4 just okay.  I could have lived with seeing the town adjusting to freedom in the coming months.  You could have even tried to make that in another season.  (I still don't think all of humanity was wiped out) Perhaps, there are others alive and that could be one storyline.

 

But, Lord of the Flies whiny teens take over.  No way. 

 

I'm trying to think of a worse ending of a show, but I can't.   

 

Wayward Pines indeed, more like Wayward Youth. 

[Free]

After spending 10 episodes watching what was left of mankind take over civilization to restore some semblance of freedom, we get that awful ending.  What was the point of the show if that happened?

Wayward Pines was a prison to begin with and now it's still a prison.  And we get some annoying teenage rejects from the 100 as the new leaders?!?!?

 

Exactly, we're back to where we started only with uninteresting, unlikable characters in charge.

[izabella]

Exactly, we're back to where we started only with uninteresting, unlikable characters in charge.

 

Uninteresing, unlikeable, and unbelievable - they know nothing about the massive infrastructure that keeps the town running and how to manage it.  Not that we do, either, because it was all hand-waved, but we at least have given some thought to where power, water, sewer, and all that food come from.  Geez, even on Under the Dumb, one of the teens was trying to install solar panels on a house.

[FishyJoe]

Yeah, it's unbelievable that a bunch of spoiled, privileged teens who never had to work a day in their life, educated by a crazy hypnotherapist, have the skills to take over the town and completely rebuild it. I'd love to defrost some real street kids and punk their candy asses. 

[Julie23]

I'm rooting for boring Ben and obnoxious first generation to win, said NO ONE EVER. Writers really missed the boat with this one. If the powers that be think they can bring this hot mess back, one word DON'T!

[Free]

I'm rooting for boring Ben and obnoxious first generation to win, said NO ONE EVER. Writers really missed the boat with this one. If the powers that be think they can bring this hot mess back, one word DON'T!

 

We have characters who were only introduced in the last 2 episodes and we already annoying and unlikable, we have Ben who up until the finale was just going along with everything, and then we have the pointless LI with nothing better to do.  What did the writers expect us to root for?

[SoothingDave]

I suppose it's possible that Pilcher had created the monument to himself before they all went into frozen storage and had it waiting for just the right group of people.  LOL

[jhlipton]

I think there are laws against Ben and Amy getting together now...

[Milburn Stone]

I'm rooting for boring Ben and obnoxious first generation to win, said NO ONE EVER.

 

I don't think it's possible for boring Ben and obnoxious first generation to win, because they're not on the same side.

 

Before the epilogue, Ben had an awakening in which he realized his parents and the insurrectionists were right. What happens now is that Ben will be an insurgent (along with Amy) against the first generation, not with them. IMO, that taste of the conflict to come made for a satisfying "season" ending in the event this show ever sees the light of day again, and a satisfying "series" ending in the event it doesn't.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[Clanstarling]

I suppose it's possible that Pilcher had created the monument to himself before they all went into frozen storage and had it waiting for just the right group of people.  LOL

The statue reminded me of the bronzing thing they had on Warehouse 13. Maybe it's not a statue of Pilcher - maybe it IS Pilcher. LOL

[marcee]

...and since they said they put the "adults" back into fro-yo, Ben and Amy could, theoretically, defrost them and we COULD enjoy the awesomeness of Kate and the awkwardness of Pam if there were to be another disgusting season.

[Free]

...and since they said they put the "adults" back into fro-yo, Ben and Amy could, theoretically, defrost them and we COULD enjoy the awesomeness of Kate and the awkwardness of Pam if there were to be another disgusting season.

 

But then we'd have to get stuck with a Ben vs Pilcher Youth storyline just to get back to the pre finale twist.  That's not worth it and we'd just go around in a circle story-wise, which already be beyond stretched thin at that point.

[jhlipton]

Ben will be an insurgent (along with Amy) against the first generation, not with them.

 

I think Amy is far more likely to seduce Ben to the FG side than Ben is to bring her to the "grups" side.

 

Not that I really care one way or another.

Edited July 30, 2015 by jhlipton

[KDeFlane]

 a nod to jhlipton for the 'grups' reference ;)

 

I do wonder whether any of the FirstGen class cares about preserving all of the decades of [Western] civilization that Pilcher had stockpiled.  Did any of them listen to Beethoven before their abductions?  Did any of them care about the history of oil paintings?  Ben learned to adapt to life without the Internet, and many of his classmates probably never heard of Twitter or Facebook.  They were taught to forget their own past, and likely have already forgotten about the past of their ancestors.  Could we look forward to watching them dismantle the rest of the cultural remnants of Wayward Pines?  Naw, that would be TOO dystopian for network television.

 

 

[jhlipton]

 a nod to jhlipton for the 'grups' reference ;)

 

To be fair, I had help from Mr Wikipedia.

[buckbuck]

Well that didn't go as I originally thought it might. My idea at first was that Jenkins/Pilcher was leading a secret experiment and that we'd find that the so-called wilderness wasn't the wider world at all, but a vast enclave made to look post-apocalyptic; that the mountain fortress was comprised of a few different towns surrounding the fake wilderness, all joined to the fortress but separate from each other; that someone (maybe Jenkins/Pilcher) had cooked up the abbies in a lab somewhere.

 

When it became evident that was wrong, then for a while I thought that Pam was going to find a way to oust Ethan, then lead a coup against her brother so that she could control the town. She sure seemed to salivate at the thought in the earlier episodes. I also thought maybe hypno-lady might be involved there somehow, and that there would be a conflict and showdown between the adults and the kids (not a couple of scenes here and there, but as the meat of the story in the later stages).

 

Like others here, after Ep 5, I started hate-watching.

 

I could have lived with the ending but not that beschissen epilogue. I should have known better than to give any time at a project Shyamalan was involved in - he's disappointed me too many times in the past. If there's a season 2 it'll definitely be on my NO WATCH list.

 

The show on the whole: too much stupidity, not enough pay-off.

[jhlipton]

I kept wondering about the Abbies.  I thought that an amazing twist would be that the Abbies break in, people escape WP and find out that farther outside the perimeter the Abbies have rebuilt Earth and it is beautiful.  Why?  Because supposedly Abbies were the EVOLUTION of mankind - as in they get BETTER.  Yeah they look fierce but they are highly intelligent and evolved past the pettiness that corrupted the last "batch" of humans that is "us".  Basically Planet of the Apes.  

 

I would have loved to learn more about the abbies, too.  I just posted in the "Wonderful Town" thread.

[MiseryIndex]

Why was lot 33 there in the first place? Build something there and make it something not worth snooping in. Did anyone ever need to go there? if the tunnel led to the mountains you could get into it that way.