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Small Talk: Let's get Jazzed

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The Small Talk topic is for:

 

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This is NOT a topic for actual show discussion. When you want to talk about the show:

 

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Happy trails beyond Small Talk!

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Not sure if this should go in any other topic so figured I'd post here in Small Talk.

 

John Oliver recently created an excellent and accessible primer on issues concerning transgender rights.  I think it's relevant for those of us watching this series, whether we have been involved in the trans community for years or if it's all new to us.  Fair warning, it's John Oliver so there is some cursing.  Since it's a youtube video, the F-bombs  are mostly bleeped but shit is said multiple times.  So maybe wear some headphones if you are at work.  

 

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What do you think about Caitlynn Jenner? I've read so many different opinions about her. I think she's done good things for the transgender community but I've heard many opposite opinions.

I think getting it out there is a good thing. She's a well known person and it's got people talking about transgender people and has opened the subject to people who normally wouldn't talk about it.

Maybe she and Jazz can help people realize that they're people, just like the rest of us.

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I think she's great.  Granted, I haven't really followed her all that much but I've caught some of the major events like the Diane Sawyer interview, the Vanity Fair cover and interview and most recently, the ESPY award speech (which was amazing, btw).  I think awareness is necessary and so to have a transgender person who is able to put their true self out there is very important.  It's helpful that Caitlyn was a successful motivational speaker for so many years as I think this skill will likely be important if she chooses to continue to speak about transgender issues.  I think Caitlyn's age and her past as a major sports star will be a major influence on how the public thinks about transgender people.  

 

I'm not sure if I'm really interested in the show but that has a lot to do with just being disinterested in the Kardashian/Jenner clan in general.  I don't really care about high fashion celebrity lifestyles and figured if I find it boring to watch Kim put on make-up and travel to NYC and Paris and drink diamon champaign, I'm likely to also find it boring to watch Caitlyn do these things.  I'll probably end up watching some of the show as my social and professional circles will have cause to discuss it, but I'm guessing there will be lots of fast forwarding.  

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No, I haven't seen it. Thanks for the recommendation. I just want to be more educated about the topic. I don't want to ever be offensive to anybody because of my ignorance.

I would also like to educate people like my bigoted brother and his friends. My brother lives across the country and our main communication is through Facebook. I told him if he and his idiot friends keep posting offensive stuff, I'm deleting him.

I appreciate everybody being so patient and answering all of my questions.

I'm going to go find "Growing Up Trans". Thanks again.

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Maharincess, I just want to say that I think it's amazing that you have chosen to become a transgender ally.  Further, it's very brave to make the decision to be vocal in your stance.  Extremely brave.  It's so hard to do because people have very strong opinions on this topic and even allies face severe backlash and discrimination.  I can admit that I still find it difficult to near impossible to stand up to my own family when I see them spew hatred, especially towards LGBT people (and they know I happen to fall under this umbrella).  Really, you're awesome.  Thank you.  

 

I always feel terribly choked up when I read about someone who has become an LGBT ally.  

Edited by Human
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Human and Maharincess,

I have loved and learned while reading your posts. Maharincess, I recognize your name and pix from other threads, but Human, I am thrilled to meet you. Please continue to share your expertise. I am a public school teacher in the reddest of states, but consider myself inquisitive, liberal leaning and eager to learn. Transgender people fascinate me (for lack of a better word). I admire the LGBT community for their bravery.

ETA- just watched the John Oliver video, it was great. I, too, am curious about the surgery and other body issues, but if I wouldn't ask Jimmy Carter about his genitaIs, I sure shouldn't ask Jazz about hers.

Edited by jacksgirl
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Maharincess, I just want to say that I think it's amazing that you have chosen to become a transgender ally. Further, it's very brave to make the decision to be vocal in your stance. Extremely brave. It's so hard to do because people have very strong opinions on this topic and even allies face severe backlash and discrimination. I can admit that I still find it difficult to near impossible to stand up to my own family when I see them spew hatred, especially towards LGBT people (and they know I happen to fall under this umbrella). Really, you're awesome. Thank you.

I always feel terribly choked up when I read about someone who has become an LGBT ally.

You're so sweet.

Regarding the thing with my brother, his friends will post disgusting pictures and "jokes" about transgender people, Caitlynn Jenner in particular, and they'll tag my brother in their posts. I'll go on and say shame on you and tell my brother if he comments on it, I'll disown him.

He and his friends are all "macho" truck drivers. They all like "manly" things. I have asked them if they liked boy things when they were young, I ask if they loved playing with the boys, felt most comfortable doing boy things, felt most comfortable in boy clothes. I ask them if they felt like they were 100% boy when they were young.

They always respond that of course they did. Then I say imagine feeling all of those things but every time they looked in the mirror, they saw a frilly girl with ribbons and pig tails wearing a dress. Imagine that you KNEW you were all boy but everybody is telling you that you're a girl and you need to look and act like a girl. You know with everything you have that you're a boy but everybody tell you that you're wrong, you are not a boy.

I ask them how that would make them feel about themselves.*

I don't know if I ever get through to anybody. I don't even know if that's the right thing to say to them, but it feels right to me.

As for my being an ally, thank you, I actually feel like one! When my kids were young transgender people weren't as public as they are now. I taught my kids about gay people, how they are just like anybody else they just happen to love somebody of their same sex. They knew to never harass, judge or make fun of gay people, handicapped people etc.

I have 2 grandkids now, I want to be prepared to help them understand that just like gay people, transgender people are just like us, they just happened to be born into the wrong body.

Edited to add: *Depending on the person and the situation I will add to my speech...Imagine one day you were finally able to talk your parents into letting you cut your hair and wear some "boy" clothes. You are so happy that your outside is starting to look like how you feel on the inside.

Then all of a sudden, none of your friends want to be around you anymore and the few that do aren't able to associate with you because their parents don't won't let them. The same parents who used to love you, treat you like you were their own and were happy you were their kid's friend. People start making fun of you, harassing you and calling you a freak. Kids as well as adults will point and stare at you wondering exactly "what" you are.

All of this happens simply because you are finally feeling free enough to be who you really are.

Like I said, I don't know if I've ever gotten through to anybody and I don't know if I'm saying all of the wrong things but I feel like it's the right thing to say.

Edited by Maharincess
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I don't know if any of you know (or care), there is a transgender person on Big Brother this season.

She's a beautiful woman, she's kind of a bitch but she's really pretty. My husband always has a BIg Brother crush every year, there's always one woman on the show that he loves. Audrey is his crush this year.

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Maharincess, I just want to say that I think it's amazing that you have chosen to become a transgender ally.  Further, it's very brave to make the decision to be vocal in your stance.  Extremely brave.  It's so hard to do because people have very strong opinions on this topic and even allies face severe backlash and discrimination.  I can admit that I still find it difficult to near impossible to stand up to my own family when I see them spew hatred, especially towards LGBT people (and they know I happen to fall under this umbrella).  Really, you're awesome.  Thank you.  

 

I always feel terribly choked up when I read about someone who has become an LGBT ally.  

Since I have no filter at all, I don't find it hard to stand up to my family.  If they're being bigoted or offensive, I flat out tell them they're being idiots.

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I haven't watched the show yet but am looking forward to it. I'm a lucky person. My parents were best friends with a gay couple, so this was just normal for me. I'll add that that I met them 40+ years ago!

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John Oliver recently created an excellent and accessible primer on issues concerning transgender rights.

 

That, on its own, comes very close to making HBO worth the added expense.  What a fantastic piece; thank you for sharing, and I hope this social media era in which we live - which I lament for many reasons - results in it being widely disseminated.

 

So, in this, the social topic, let me introduce myself.  I'm a civil rights lawyer in Los Angeles - my primary focus is on women's rights, but I've had my hand in many other types of cases; in a world teeming with injustice, I have a hard time limiting myself - and I loathe candid reality television as much as I love documentaries.  But the importance of this show is, so far, letting me set aside my objections to the staging, recreation, etc. that permeates the genre.  I'm just pleased it's on the air, and look forward to discussing it.

Edited by Bastet
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There was a post from radishcake in the episode thread that included this...."it's not the trans community's job to educate you, you've been given resources here, please use them".

I want to sincerely apologize. I feel like that may have been directed at me because I've expressed an interest in learning more and I've asked a lot of questions.

I'm so sorry. I never meant to offend or make anybody feel like they are here to educate me. I tried so hard.

I am very interested in learning more but my biggest worry here was that people would think that I looked upon the transgender community as a "thing" to be studied and researched.

I just don't ever want to say or do the wrong thing to or about anybody in my real life. I want to support the community if I can, by learning more I can also help my daughter make sure that her kids learn and that they know from a young age that the transgender community are just people like the rest of us, they just had things about them that they needed to change.

See. I don't even know if that's the right thing to tell the kids.

I am very sorry if I asked too many questions or inappropriate questions. I'm also sorry if I ever made anybody feel like I expected them to educate me.

I'm scared of saying the wrong thing so I think I'll bow out of the conversation. I may make a few comments about an episode but I won't ask any more questions.

Thanks.

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Maharincess,  I can absolutely assure you that the post was not directed towards you.  You have been nothing but polite and respectful with asking questions.  I honestly can't remember the exact comment that had been made in the other thread, but it was something along the lines of implying that it's the job of transgender people to be public educators, only the comment was posed in a much much much more offensive way.  On a forum like this, ask away and those of us who are willing and able to reply will gladly jump in.  

 

I can totally understand the issue of being scared to ask questions for fear of offending.  It's a difficult topic and it's also a somewhat unknown topic for a lot of people.  The language to discuss LGBT issues continues to evolve so it can be hard to catch up.  For the most part, it's easy to tell when a person is trying to make an effort to be polite and nonoffensive even if they ask a question that maybe is a little not great.  I hope you haven't been made to feel that you can ask anything at all for fear of making anyone angry.  I can't speak for others, but I definitely welcome your comments, questions and concerns and I've enjoyed engaging with such a lovely and caring ally.  

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Yay, woke up to posts from some of my smart new virtual friends. Hello Human, Maharincess and Hi Bastet! I love that I can come to this site and read and learn. Maharincess, I have seen your name for a long time, I think our tv viewing habits overlap and I have never read anything from you that could be viewed as rude or insensitive. So excited to see that Human has posted on more of the I am Jazz threads. Need to go read those now.

Edited by jacksgirl
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Just a note to say everyone here now is being wonderful and most of my previous modding was an attempt to help those of you who want to post in a respectful atmosphere. I think we've achieved that so far.

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I've mostly just been lurking, but Maharincess, the difference I see between your questions and the questions posed by certain others is that you seem to genuinely want to listen and are open to realizing that your past or current understanding may be incomplete.  Perhaps it was word choices, but some other questions seemed to only want affirmation of their unfounded assumption.  This might be a bit of a facetious comparison, but I see your questions more as "why is the sky blue?" and others as "I think the sky is red.  Prove that it's blue."  It's about what you want to learn and how you react to feedback.  

 

I think education is important, but it is definitely a careful balance of "token trans* experience" and understanding a diversity of experiences.  I can respect some of the pushback against the Caitlyn Jenner publicity because her experience is very much situated in her lifelong experiences with class, race, and being in the public eye.  And this is why I appreciate that I am Jazz and various other shows are gaining visibility.  There are many - far too many - tragedies that get media attention, but I do think we need exposure to positivity as well.     

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The bathroom wars are heating up again as a new school year begins.  Lila Perry is a transgender teenage girl in Missouri.  After having been segregated to the gender-neutral bathrooms for a while, she decided to use the appropriate facilities, the ones that matched her gender identity.  It set off a firestorm which has led to protests that first started with the parents and then moved to the students.  There are a lot of articles around the web that capture comments from the parents who are against Lila using the bathroom and changing at school and they are pretty disgusting with one father implying that Lila is invading his daughter's privacy.  

 

One thing we've discussed rather heavily at work today has been the part where some students at Lila's school rejecting her transgender identity simply because she has not had any medical procedures which is problematic for a whole host of reasons.  I'm not sure if anyone here has watched I Am Cait.  I started watching but grew too bored of some of the topics, but I'm wondering if that is affecting the way the public is understanding what it means to be transgender since Caitlyn didn't formally come out as a woman until she'd undergone extensive surgery and hormone therapy.  

 

Jazz's show is seeming more important than ever since it focuses on transgender youth.  While Jazz is in an extreme position of privilege and has access to a wide array of health care, I think she, her family and the show were very sensitive to the fact that it's not always like that for everyone.  

 

Are there bathroom wars going on in your neck of the woods?  If you're an ally, I shamelessly beg you to lend your support in any way you can.  Even just talking to your coffee friends and educating them about what's happening with transgender youth is a way to be a supportive ally.  The more who know, the more who care.  Hopefully.

Edited by Human

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I read about this situation. To clarify, it's the girls' locker room (and bathroom, but the bathroom didn't seem to bother people much because there are stalls for privacy). It's the lack of privacy that is concerning the other girls.

However, we've been warned not to talk about this particular subject so I won't go on.

A friend posted a letter from a transgender student at a University in Pennsylvania who has been stopped by security every time he wants to return to his dorm. Since his ID still has an old picture and his old name from when he started, the school will not let him change it. So his problems are very basic, he just wants to go to his room, and it's an ordeal each time.

So heartbreaking.

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Just came here to vent/share some frustration:

I am so sad to say that even people that I consider open minded in my life;  have a closed mind when I describe this show and Jazz to them.

I am immediately judged simply for WATCHING.  I try to explain to them that you really have to listen/watch/observe Jazz and her family to begin to open your mind and heart to understand their plight,  but they want none of it.    I can't even BEGIN to tell about 90% of the people in my life that I watch this show or I will hear non stop "WTF?'s"    It makes me so sad.    Maybe it's mainly my age group?  I am 55 but my friends and family of course run the age gamut.  Seems younger people are bit more open minded.     I dunno.  I don't have answers.   Just wanted to vent.  :(  

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I've watched this show from the beginning and have always found Jazz to be so mature and articulate for her age. Teen years can be pretty rocky, I can't imagine throwing in navigating transgender issues on top of that . Jazz seems really down , isolated , sad. It's a bummer seeing her go thru such a rough time - I hope it gets better She's a great kid 

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On June 24, 2016 at 9:19 AM, jnymph said:

Just came here to vent/share some frustration:

I am so sad to say that even people that I consider open minded in my life;  have a closed mind when I describe this show and Jazz to them.

Maybe it's mainly my age group?  I am 55 but my friends and family of course run the age gamut.  Seems younger people are bit more open minded.     I dunno.  I don't have answers.   Just wanted to vent.  :(  

I think it may also depend on where you live and the local culture/religions/politics. I am older than you and have friends of various ages on both sides of the transgender issue. It is so frustrating, I agree, when people won't even consider opening their minds and hearts to people who may be different than them.

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Sparked by the last episode, but a more general set of observations about Jeanette. God love her. I had flashbacks of my own mother for the entire hour (and across the series run, but it really came to a head this week).

Bit of context so my observations will make sense. My mother was a grade-A caretaker, mostly focused on her children but also tending to a raging narcissist mother who frequently competed with us for her time and attention. Grandma-dearest set in motion a non-stop cycle of crises that my mother usually had to clean up (because her siblings wisely headed for the hills). It got to where, if we (and succeeding generations) couldn't oblige and give her something juicy (crisis) to gnaw on, she'd create one on her own. Responding to crises became like breathing to her. It got to the point where I gave her a list of topics and people she was not allowed to bring up to me (she never wanted solutions, only an audience, and I couldn't take it anymore) and our discussions stopped. She misplaced her capacity to simply live in an environment where things were normal. Good heart. Skewed/exaggerated sense of responsibility for all of life's challenges.

I see a lot of my mother in what we've been shown of Jeanette. That caretaker sensibility is real (over-identified with her children? Eh. Maybe.). Her long adrenaline rush comes not from a demanding, lunatic parent but from an epic challenge introduced with her youngest child. For the last 13? 12? 14? years, Jeanette's energies have been channeled into advocating for Jazz and her compelling needs (and, of course, her other three children). She's been in overdrive for so long she may not remember how to turn it off. Jeanette may not WANT to remember how to turn it off or dial it down, because her battle is a worthy one that adds to her sense of purpose. Not that she's benefitting personally from her daughter's trials, but she's rising to the occasion for her child and there probably is some fulfillment in that as a parent. It's mostly been necessary over the years - and she is absolutely right to want to protect her still-growing daughter. But speaking as the child of someone who has only one, full-bore energy setting (and constant crisis seeking), it's exhausting. Jazz gets major brownie points from me for handling it as well as she seems to be doing. I saw a lot of anticipating crises across that hour - waiting for the other shoe to drop.

This is not intended to criticize. She (and Jazz) is providing a service in educating us. Jeanette's concerns are grounded in reality. Just hoping she can let go once in awhile.

Edited by RealityCowgirl
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I watched all of last season and loved that Jazz has raised awareness. I haven't been reading much of the forums recently though because I haven't watched much of this season. I have, however, seen the previews for the following episodes and I do have a problem with the show now.

It seems like Jazz is running into more and more hate and I just think she is too young to be made a public spectacle. I think season one was amazing and I'm glad they had the guts to show the world what it means to be transgender. But I say enough now. It should have ended there. Jazz is too young to realize how doing this publicly may affect her long term. So I say shame on her parents for putting her out there. Jazz raised enough awareness and enough of a following that she could have continued and been very successful in her work for transgender children and teenagers--without the video cameras. When I hear people tell her to kill herself, it is heartbreaking and I don't understand how a mother can sit back and watch it happen. I think Jazz needs a few more years to find herself and get through all the medical trauma BEFORE they put her in front of 24/7 filming.

Leave the reality shows to the adults who know what they're getting themselves into.

I'd love to hear other opinions.

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I could be wrong but I believe that by raising awareness thru TLC that Jazz and her family will be able to pay ( thru  show earnings) for her future gender confirmation surgery....the cost must be astronomical and if insurance doesn't cover it then that is an option open to very few transgender people . I wish her the best in her journey.

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8 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

You’re very sweet to me @Granny58 but I’m ok with being fat, I have a BMI of 32, I’m obese and look like a fertility statue. (Like many plus size ladies of color who were fat as children)  

I was also 5’7 at 14, so the same height/size I am now.....so although I’m older I didn’t get any taller!

I say all this to say if you gain 40lbs in one year and haven’t gotten any taller (whether you’re 15 or 35) I would think It could be due to depression OR there was a major medical reason (even just injury or pregnancy). 

@Granny58, I couldn't figure out how to post your quote. This new format is taking some getting used to.

When I was referencing my female students who are a size 14/16, I knew you'd be smart enough to know that I wasn't being mean or cruel about their clothing size.

I know what a difference several inches can make re: weight/clothing sizes. Being 5'7" and a size 14/16 is vastly different than shorter females (5'1", 5'2", 5'3") being a size 14/16.

I simply wanted to be courteous and make sure that I was clear to everyone here about my original post. The last thing I would ever do is insinuate any adult who is a size 14/16/18 needs to lose weight. It's the young ones I'm worried about. 

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15 minutes ago, Bridget said:

The last thing I would ever do is insinuate any adult who is a size 14/16/18 needs to lose weight. It's the young ones I'm worried about. 

I totally get it.  Young people have great metabolisms.  They shouldn't be 14/16/18!  That SO MANY are is a clear indication of bad diet and lack of exercise.  It's a real pity.  Then, as you age and your metabolism slows down, it is very common to be these sizes.   When it started happening to me I observed old movie stars (men mostly, because I'm sure old-time women stars swallowed tapeworms or smoked like chimneys to stay slim) and even "back then" they were filling out as they aged.    It's natural, even though you still gotta try to keep a handle on it so you don't end up on My 600 Pound Life. 

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12 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I totally get it.  Young people have great metabolisms.  They shouldn't be 14/16/18!  That SO MANY are is a clear indication of bad diet and lack of exercise.  It's a real pity.  Then, as you age and your metabolism slows down, it is very common to be these sizes.   When it started happening to me I observed old movie stars (men mostly, because I'm sure old-time women stars swallowed tapeworms or smoked like chimneys to stay slim) and even "back then" they were filling out as they aged.    It's natural, even though you still gotta try to keep a handle on it so you don't end up on My 600 Pound Life. 

Exactly! I blame the addiction to screens as a major increasing factor, but the reality is that they eat like garbage and don't move. The next time you see a teenager, please watch how slow they move...a lot of it is because they're on their damn phones, but they also walk slooooooowly and I have no idea why that is. I'm not saying teens need to be health nuts, and I understand they're not at the grocery store buying the items that end up coming home. However, they are the ones who make daily runs to Starbucks,  7-11 and vending machines. I understand that sugar is addictive, but they also don't eat fruits or veggies nor do they drink water. It's so sad to say this, and I'm not saying "CPS, take them away!", but if the heavy teens were removed from their homes and ate healthy foods in other homes, the weight would come off. 

Forgive me if you've seem me post this anywhere before, but we had a staff meeting one afternoon and the main topic was "How to Spot the Varying Symptoms of Diabetes." I kid you not.

We were taught how to (nonchalantly) observe physical symptoms of students who are possibly pre-diabetic, including a slide show of the various types of shading around necks of young ones. I couldn't make this up if I tried! I was also shocked at how many teachers didn't know about the frequent thirst and urge to urinate. I can't tell you how many of my students ask to get water every 2 mins and I know why some of them really are thirsty. I tell them all to bring a water bottle, but they look at me like I'm nuts. Even drinking water, not Gatorade/juice/soda, is too healthy for them. Ahhhhhh!

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1 hour ago, Bridget said:

@Granny58, I couldn't figure out how to post your quote. This new format is taking some getting used to.

When I was referencing my female students who are a size 14/16, I knew you'd be smart enough to know that I wasn't being mean or cruel about their clothing size.

I know what a difference several inches can make re: weight/clothing sizes. Being 5'7" and a size 14/16 is vastly different than shorter females (5'1", 5'2", 5'3") being a size 14/16.

I simply wanted to be courteous and make sure that I was clear to everyone here about my original post. The last thing I would ever do is insinuate any adult who is a size 14/16/18 needs to lose weight. It's the young ones I'm worried about. 

Oh @Bridget I didn’t think you were being mean or cruel at all!

But I am a little bit confused, probably because as a former fat kid (and fat adult) right before the childhood obesity movement really took off (I do kind smirk a bit that NOW obese kids are to be helped and taught nutrition but 20yrs ago, and 60yrs ago if we are talking about my Dad, we were just stupid or lazy....ummmhmmm), I never understood the idea that because someone was young they were supposed to be thinner- me at 14 is the same height as 32 yrs old me, and I’m the same size, that 16-18(plus sizes)....but trust me I got plenty of mean comments (from adults not kids) that youth and obesity was due to my moral failure while age and obesity is just life.....

Adult height is adult height whether you’re 14 or 34.....

1 hour ago, Granny58 said:

I totally get it.  Young people have great metabolisms.  They shouldn't be 14/16/18!  That SO MANY are is a clear indication of bad diet and lack of exercise.  It's a real pity.  Then, as you age and your metabolism slow

Not all young people though. There are always those people at either end of the bell curve, even 100yrs ago, you have 1-2 heavy kids in a class who probably grew up to be heavy adults (more so if they were rich). I am not in denial about the health complications of obesity (trust I go to the doctor and watch my numbers etc), but my father who was bullied mercilessly as a child for being heavy (back in the 1950s), was determined I was NOT going to hate myself the way he did, and he knew things would be harder for me being a girl.

It’s kinda funny, as a child he kept it real about the way people often treated fat people (especially fat women), but he had no idea most of the population would gain weight in the subsequent years and that would affect how we look at obesity. 

Edited to add- for the record I am all for healthy eating, exercise, nutritional education and if a young person is depressed about their weight PLEASE get them therapy/treatment and a plan in place to change. What I am not for is an attitude that calories don’t apply to those under 21 and if they are fat it’s because they are awful/stupid/ignorant people while the middle aged adults (that are supposed to be helping them) look down on them in condensation yet said adults continue to eat badly as well. (For the record I don’t think you ladies are coming from this place, but many people do.)

This was a portion of my life experience and it’s not the way the next generation will get healthy. 

Edited by Scarlett45
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55 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Oh @Bridget I didn’t think you were being mean or cruel at all!

But I am a little bit confused, probably because as a former fat kid (and fat adult) right before the childhood obesity movement really took off (I do kind smirk a bit that NOW obese kids are to be helped and taught nutrition but 20yrs ago, and 60yrs ago if we are talking about my Dad, we were just stupid or lazy....ummmhmmm), I never understood the idea that because someone was young they were supposed to be thinner- me at 14 is the same height as 32 yrs old me, and I’m the same size, that 16-18(plus sizes)....but trust me I got plenty of mean comments (from adults not kids) that youth and obesity was due to my moral failure while age and obesity is just life.....

Adult height is adult height whether you’re 14 or 34.....

Not all young people though. There are always those people at either end of the bell curve, even 100yrs ago, you have 1-2 heavy kids in a class who probably grew up to be heavy adults (more so if they were rich). I am not in denial about the health complications of obesity (trust I go to the doctor and watch my numbers etc), but my father who was bullied mercilessly as a child for being heavy (back in the 1950s), was determined I was NOT going to hate myself the way he did, and he knew things would be harder for me being a girl.

It’s kinda funny, as a child he kept it real about the way people often treated fat people (especially fat women), but he had no idea most of the population would gain weight in the subsequent years and that would affect how we look at obesity. 

Edited to add- for the record I am all for healthy eating, exercise, nutritional education and if a young person is depressed about their weight PLEASE get them therapy/treatment and a plan in place to change. What I am not for is an attitude that calories don’t apply to those under 21 and if they are fat it’s because they are awful/stupid/ignorant people while the middle aged adults (that are supposed to be helping them) look down on them in condensation yet said adults continue to eat badly as well. (For the record I don’t think you ladies are coming from this place, but many people do.)

This was a portion of my life experience and it’s not the way the next generation will get healthy. 

There has always been a wide variety of shapes and sizes.  So when I said that "most" teen girls of my cohort (1970s) were size 7/9/11, again, that doesn't mean all.  In fact, my best friend was the "fat girl."  And here's the thing...her case was mostly genetics.  She and I were equally active and both ate large amounts of food....but I was a size 11 while she was probably a 15.  So I am not talking individuals, but instead the overall group.  So in the 1970s we would have weekly dances at the school.   We had active jobs in stores.  In between we were walking our dogs or hanging out with friends (which often included parties with dancing).   Somebody with diabetes or ADD was a real rarity.  Something has gone really wrong.  

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17 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

There has always been a wide variety of shapes and sizes.  So when I said that "most" teen girls of my cohort (1970s) were size 7/9/11, again, that doesn't mean all.  In fact, my best friend was the "fat girl."  And here's the thing...her case was mostly genetics.  She and I were equally active and both ate large amounts of food....but I was a size 11 while she was probably a 15.  So I am not talking individuals, but instead the overall group.  So in the 1970s we would have weekly dances at the school.   We had active jobs in stores.  In between we were walking our dogs or hanging out with friends (which often included parties with dancing).   Somebody with diabetes or ADD was a real rarity.  Something has gone really wrong.  

Oh yes I agree- 1-2% of the population is just the bell curve, when an entire population changes (1-2% of kids being obese to 30%) it’s a lifestyle issue.

I think we are agreeing with each other but coming from different view points. 

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On 12/18/2018 at 1:11 PM, ClareWalks said:

Yeah, agreed. I'm not saying Jazz wasn't trans at age two, I just don't think she was this precocious little genius they're always making her out to be.

I agree! This week’s episode (season 5, episode 2) was painful to listen to. 

In fact, for as much experience that Jazz has had to meet different people, give interviews to media outlets and attend different events all over the country, she doesn’t come off as being very bright or intelligent at all. Even during the countless rubber chicken dinners she has attended, she failed to notice that no one else chewed with their mouth open?!

I can tell she isn’t a reader, which makes my heart sad. Just once, I would love to see see someone on “Reality TV” reading a book before bed or talking about a book they can’t wait to finish.  

I know it’s a bit nit picky, but her grammar is awful! It’s the high school English teacher in me, I know, but I cringe when she mangles verbs and other parts of speech so frequently. She spewed out some word salad this week while on the way to the allergist with her mom. I can’t remember what the exact phrase was, but Jeanette literally said the same thing back to her, as if to confirm she was hearing Jazz and it blew me away. For about 10 seconds. Then I remembered who was on my screen and I calmed down. 

In all seriousness, I wonder what (if any) impact blocking male puberty from setting in had on her development as a critical thinker or overall student. I’m a teacher (credentialed K-12) who has primarily taught middle & high school. The male students definitely struggle more than their female peers during grades 7-10.

Everything she says, whether it’s about a vagina or skydiving, is prefaced with: “I’ve wanted to do this my entire life.” Hey Jazz, you can’t see the planet Earth when you go skydiving. 

I do understand why her mom allowed her to complete her studies via a virtual school (because Jazz said it was what she wanted), but there’s something to be said for students to be around peers in an academic setting. Even if it’s to have minimal access to academic content or to pick up on social cues (i.e. empathy or how to treat teachers), it seems to be working in the state of CA with the introduction of an inclusive classroom. 

I don’t mean to suggest that Jazz would be eligible for services from an Education Specialist, but I would not be surprised to find out that she has either ADD or ADHD. I won’t bore you with the symptoms that I see present, but it would explain a lot. I think she’s well versed in issues that are important to her, and that’s great! I sincerely hope that she also takes a genuine interest in other socially relevant causes as well. More knowledge never hurt anyone!

Edited by Bridget
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I can't believe the latest commercial for this show.     Jazz telling when she's having surgery is not a smart thing to do, and I'm hoping it was all done just for the show, and the hospital and date was not publicized on the internet, or in the media at the time of the actual surgery.     

When there have been people making threats, or people who might want to get pictures to sell, you don't announce something like that.    You can't expect the hospital to have extra security to preserve your privacy, or screen visitors to your floor because you blabbed you would be there at a certain date and time.  Her father is right, it only takes one crazy to cause a tragedy.  

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On 1/10/2019 at 1:13 AM, Bridget said:

I agree! This week’s episode (season 5, episode 2) was painful to listen to. 

In fact, for as much experience that Jazz has had to meet different people, give interviews to media outlets and attend different events all over the country, she doesn’t come off as being very bright or intelligent at all. Even during the countless rubber chicken dinners she has attended, she failed to notice that no one else chewed with their mouth open?!

I can tell she isn’t a reader, which makes my heart sad. Just once, I would love to see see someone on “Reality TV” reading a book before bed or talking about a book they can’t wait to finish.  

I know it’s a bit nit picky, but her grammar is awful! It’s the high school English teacher in me, I know, but I cringe when she mangles verbs and other parts of speech so frequently. She spewed out some word salad this week while on the way to the allergist with her mom. I can’t remember what the exact phrase was, but Jeanette literally said the same thing back to her, as if to confirm she was hearing Jazz and it blew me away. For about 10 seconds. Then I remembered who was on my screen and I calmed down. 

In all seriousness, I wonder what (if any) impact blocking male puberty from setting in had on her development as a critical thinker or overall student. I’m a teacher (credentialed K-12) who has primarily taught middle & high school. The male students definitely struggle more than their female peers during grades 7-10.

Everything she says, whether it’s about a vagina or skydiving, is prefaced with: “I’ve wanted to do this my entire life.” Hey Jazz, you can’t see the planet Earth when you go skydiving. 

I do understand why her mom allowed her to complete her studies via a virtual school (because Jazz said it was what she wanted), but there’s something to be said for students to be around peers in an academic setting. Even if it’s to have minimal access to academic content or to pick up on social cues (i.e. empathy or how to treat teachers), it seems to be working in the state of CA with the introduction of an inclusive classroom. 

I don’t mean to suggest that Jazz would be eligible for services from an Education Specialist, but I would not be surprised to find out that she has either ADD or ADHD. I won’t bore you with the symptoms that I see present, but it would explain a lot. I think she’s well versed in issues that are important to her, and that’s great! I sincerely hope that she also takes a genuine interest in other socially relevant causes as well. More knowledge never hurt anyone!

Yeah, I see what you see as well. I was appalled at how Jeanette really didn't seem to give Jazz an option with the ABC interview either. What mother pushes her kid into doing that when she's about to undergo sexual reassignment surgery?!? Jesus H. Christ. She's living her life through her daughter and doesn't seem to have any other identity than being Jazz's mother. It's sad, really. Her husband is lovely, I dont know how he puts up with all the bullshit with her and Jazz subverting his decisions and wishes.

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Thinking of you all today and the universal love of cold shoulder tops.  It's about 45 degrees and windy.  My colleague is wearing a down jacket, gloves and a wool cap.  Took the coat off; she has on a cold shoulder top.  In this weather is it an ice cube shoulder top? 

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On 2/11/2019 at 11:24 AM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Thinking of you all today and the universal love of cold shoulder tops.  It's about 45 degrees and windy.  My colleague is wearing a down jacket, gloves and a wool cap.  Took the coat off; she has on a cold shoulder top.  In this weather is it an ice cube shoulder top? 

In the office?    I am much to old to wear them, but back in the day I had several tops that worked as a cold shoulder tops, but I could pull them up when needed.  Like a convertible top, in a way.   Think of Naomi Harper in the "Mama's Family."  She wore all her dresses off the shoulder.  The ones Jeannette and her mom have on don't look as though they have enough material to pull up.  She needs to loose those jeans with holes. 

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Cold shoulder tops just don't look good, IMHO. I saw Sharon Stone wearing one of those on The Chew sometime ago and even she couldn't pull it off. Mere mortals have no chance.

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On 2/11/2019 at 11:24 AM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Thinking of you all today and the universal love of cold shoulder tops.  It's about 45 degrees and windy.  My colleague is wearing a down jacket, gloves and a wool cap.  Took the coat off; she has on a cold shoulder top.  In this weather is it an ice cube shoulder top? 

1 hour ago, jcbrown said:

Cold shoulder tops just don't look good, IMHO. I saw Sharon Stone wearing one of those on The Chew sometime ago and even she couldn't pull it off. Mere mortals have no chance.

Im in Chicago and there is a woman in my office to wears cold shoulder tops- I don't get it. I think it ruins the line of the body. The only person I have seen to look nice in a cold shoulder top is my Mom. But my Mom is 70 yrs old and the way she is shaped she looks nice in the legging/long tunic combination, her cold shoulder tops are long flowy tunics to be warn in the spring and the summer. Not in the dead of a Chicago Winter.

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This isn't really directly related to I am Jazz, but looks like TLC is getting ready to exploit a new "circus freak" - a young woman who stopped growing at age 8 and is stuck in a tiny childlike body trying to get more independence from her family. 

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On 1/26/2022 at 9:13 AM, spacefly said:

I am one of those students too. I made it through a year and a half of college and left. I had never had to develop any study habits to get A's in AP classes, I did well on SATs, actually scoring higher on the 2nd round after staying out all night partying. I didn't care because my first scores were high enough. I apprenticed as a chef and built a career in that field before going back to college in my late 30s to get an engineering degree, math was easy the writing and other classes were a struggle. I hype she succeeds but it is tough if you do not have those study skills.

Taking this over here to continue the conversation. I graduated in four years and went on to get an MS in Geography ('cause that's what the cool kids major in 😁 ). The big shock for me was my first English class.  I had taken a slew of AP English classes, and, with almost no effort, got As.  I had published poems and short stories.  Suddenly I had to learn how to write.  😳. I felt like I had to start completely over learning how to express myself in writing. I almost didn't go back after winter break.  If I had a family to welcome me home, I likely would not have returned to college. 

I've had this talk with some of my friends' super bright kids when they headed off to college.  I had friends who were so good at studying and structuring their papers before writing them.  I was too used to winging it.   

Also my college had a common core curriculum.  Suddenly I had to take a series of science classes.  I had somehow graduated the top academic high school in my city without taking physics or chemistry.  When I retire I plan to fill in some gaps in my education. 

I didn't do well in math in college until I went against the advice of my friends and took the higher level version of the math common core class.  I had many AP math classes in HS.  In this case, I needed the challenge and better professors or TAs. In my fourth year my counselor told me they had hoped I would have been a math major.  Would have been nice if they told me that year one and helped me down that path.  I would have enjoyed it. 

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On 1/26/2022 at 12:43 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Taking this over here to continue the conversation. I graduated in four years and went on to get an MS in Geography ('cause that's what the cool kids major in 😁 )

I have a Civil Engineering Degree with a Geomatics emphasis which makes me a Land Surveyor but I am now a GISP (because that's what the cool kids do🤩). I have been working in Geographic Information Systems (GIS) for 20 years now. I agree with everything you said above.

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