Unpopular Opinions: "I hate BLTs from Kelly's!"

[Ladybyrd]

20 hours ago, Camille said:

Geary indicated in an interview that he had some distaste for the "Luke & Laura" phenomenon, given how they started out.

Very reasonable, but I wish in that case he had been a little more reluctant about Luke as a romantic lead in general. 

I was just watching clips from 2012, god knows why, and Luke literally had three women fighting over him. (Tracy, Heather, Anna.)  I never bought Luke as a lady's man, but if he had to be one, would've been nice if his past had given anyone pause. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Ladybyrd

[alessia]

11 hours ago, Ladybyrd said:

Very reasonable, but I wish in that case he had been a little more reluctant about Luke as a romantic lead in general. 

I was just watching clips from 2012, god knows why, and Luke literally had three women fighting over him. (Tracy, Heather, Anna.)  I never bought Luke as a lady's man, but if he had to be one, would've been nice if his past had  gave anyone pause. 

I think Geary is similar to Guza in that he resents that he didn't make it outside of soaps.  In Geary's case, he didn't even make it outside of L&L.  Bill Eckert was a flop of a character.

And they both seemed to enjoy sticking it viewers.

[Dr.OO7]

What I also hate about Guza's destructive tendencies was how forced it was. One day, Tony's a pillar of the community, the next, he's a deranged kidnapper endangering the life of someone he's known since she was a child. One day Felicia's a loving wife and mother, the next, she's a moronic slut running off with Luke every chance she gets and genuinely confused as to why her husband and children hate her. 

And while it may have been a little more realistic, Luke and Laura going from a loving couple to one who couldn't stand each other never made sense either.

1 hour ago, alessia said:

In Geary's case, he didn't even make it outside of L&L.  Bill Eckert was a flop of a character.

While Genie Francis had moderate success outside of GH and L&L, even if none of her other characters were as popular as Laura.

[Melgaypet]

23 hours ago, Camille said:

Geary indicated in an interview that he had some distaste for the "Luke & Laura" phenomenon, given how they started out.

Honestly, I may be too cynical about Geary at this point, but think this gives him too much credit. I'm sure he recognizes the problematic nature of the couple - and I bet he was creeped out by the crazies who would scream "Rape me, Luke!" at him at public events just as Roger Howarth would later be - but I doubt he really cares about it too much in a "this was irresponsible storytelling" kind of way, you know what I mean?

11 hours ago, alessia said:

I think Geary is similar to Guza in that he resents that he didn't make it outside of soaps.  In Geary's case, he didn't even make it outside of L&L.  Bill Eckert was a flop of a character.

And they both seemed to enjoy sticking it viewers.

I think this is much closer to the mark. He resents being "trapped" by the character of Luke and the phenomenon of Luke and Laura, and that it supposedly scuttled any chance of a Hollywood career.

[dubbel zout]

21 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

He resents being "trapped" by the character of Luke and the phenomenon of Luke and Laura, and that it supposedly scuttled any chance of a Hollywood career.

That may have been true at the height of Luke and Laura, but he's been okay with it for years now. I He's mentioned in interviews that getting the place in Amsterdam was a huge factor in that acceptance, as he could walk around and nobody cared who he was. 

[teenj12]

On 11/28/2018 at 2:04 PM, statsgirl said:

While I was a Julexis fan even after he threatened her (UO), I find myself wanting Julian to stay with Kim.  They have a freshness that Julexis doesn't have any more and I don't think Drew and Kim have ever had.

Oddly enough, I'd argue that time and distance has actually done Julexis... well? Lemme explain, I was never a fan of the ship when it first started up in 2013 (I didn't like Julian dragging Alexis down with the mob stuff), though I did see why they garnered such a sizable following (the actors had chem)  . After the emotional abuse and knife incident that Julian inflicted on Alexis, I was disgusted with his character, with Julexis, and with the idea of them ever getting back together - and plus, what kind of example would that have set for Kristina (an abuse survivor) if Alexis went back to Julian?

Then something changed. The writers went from making Julian dangerous, but misunderstood to completely evil (the emotional abuse/knife incident) to reforming him as the man we see on screen today. The thing is, I like the new Julian, I like that he's growing beyond the mob and that he's somewhat changed as a person. When they paired him with Kim, it was good exploration of Julian actually having a healthy non-mob-influenced relationship with a woman. At first, I thought Kim/Julian had no chem, but they worked on it. After a while, they were alright to me chem-wise, but I still never called myself shipping them. Now I think I like the chem between Alexis and the "new" Julian lately. It hit me out of nowhere honestly, even though I'm still not sure about that being a thing again. 

[Hater]

Am I the only one who doesn't care for Eden McCoy's acting?  She gets tons of praise and for what?  Because she screeches like her on screen mother? 

Is it b/c Oscar is played so horribly by Garren that she looks good in comparison? I also don't care to see Liz's kid stuck in a relationship with Carly's daughter.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Hater

[teenj12]

15 hours ago, Hater said:

Am I the only one who doesn't care for Eden McCoy's acting?  She gets tons of praise and for what?  Because she screeches like her on screen mother? 

Is it b/c Oscar is played so horribly by Garren that she looks good in comparison? I also don't care to see Liz's kid stuck in a relationship with Carly's daughter.

Eden's gotten a lot better, I'll say (and next to Garren Stitt, it's no wonder that her acting looks "emmy-worthy"). But, I get what you mean.

Honestly, William Lipton (Cameron) is the best actor of the three, and I think maybe the writers are starting to notice that too. 

[sunnyface]

I enjoyed watching Courtney in the way-back episode and wonder why this board hates the character/actress so much that they won't even type her name (LOL).  How much worse would she have been than the Sonny/Carly/Jason/Sam piece of garbage that the TPBP are flinging at our screens each week-day?

Edited December 26, 2018 by sunnyface

[Asp Burger]

She filled the "Sam" slot before there was Sam. Those characters (Sonny, Tamara Braun's Carly, Jason, and Courtney) were known as "the fab four," or "the drab four" to people who didn't like them. They really ate the show for a couple years.

Alicia Leigh Willis was rumored to be a favorite of Brian Frons's. He saw a chem-test scene of Jason and Courtney on the docks and said in an interview that he had told Guza and Pratt that that was what he wanted to see more of. Coincidentally or not, the pairing then went into high gear. Also coincidentally or not, they later brought on a hunky cop named Brian to be infatuated with Courtney. 

Courtney even had a whole dream episode built around her and her romance with Jason, when she had been on the show for less than a year. The present-day equivalent would be if Shelly and Chris wrote a whole episode taking us into the mind of Willow.    

I think by the time that "fab/drab four" period ran its course, Courtney/Jason ended and the TB Carly was no more, a lot of people disliked Courtney on her own merits. The character was pretty obnoxious, pushy, and hard ("She's a strong woman like Carly, and even Carly loves her!"), and she had gotten off lightly for a lot of misdeeds, like shooting the above hunky cop in the back. So it was a combination of a lot of things. Too much too soon/overexposure, a perception of favoritism, bad writing, and the actress not being appealing enough to overcome it.

But she did have some fans.  

I didn't mind the very early Courtney. When she first came to town and was grossed out by Sonny's controlling ways, and did not take crap from Carly, I thought she was all right. But even then, I could see the story being set up for her to love her wonderful brother and his brave-and-strong wife, and I knew her relationship with AJ was not going to last. Sure enough, they wrote the dumb stripping-to-keep-AJ-out-of-jail story, and the even worse story where she was being stalked and AJ was behind it, and she defended herself by throwing flour at an intruder dressed as a skeleton. 

Shame, as ALW was better opposite Billy Warlock than she was with any of Steve, Ingo, or Tyler later.  

Edited December 26, 2018 by Asp Burger

[dubbel zout]

30 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

Courtney even had a whole dream episode built around her and her romance with Jason, when she had been on the show for less than a year. The present-day equivalent would be if Shelly and Chris wrote a whole episode taking us into the mind of Willow.

Or like what happened with Sabrina, where she was having elaborate fantasies about Patrick, and we saw them all. It was so embarrassing for the character, since she was an adult (supposedly™ Silas Clay forever) and the fantasies were so schoolgirlish. One might have worked, but there were three or four, I think.

I wish writers would learn than shoving a character down our throats isn't the way to get us to like him/her. It does the exact opposite for me.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

1 hour ago, sunnyface said:

I enjoyed watching Courtney in the way-back episode and wonder why this board hates the character/actress so much that they won't even type her name (LOL).  How much worse would she have been than the Sonny/Carly/Jason/Sam piece of garbage that the TPBP are flinging at our screens each week-day?

I liked Courtney, too. I didn't like her with Nik, but I enjoyed the character other than that.

[CharethCutestory]

On 12/26/2018 at 9:08 AM, Asp Burger said:

She filled the "Sam" slot before there was Sam. Those characters (Sonny, Tamara Braun's Carly, Jason, and Courtney) were known as "the fab four," or "the drab four" to people who didn't like them. They really ate the show for a couple years.

Alicia Leigh Willis was rumored to be a favorite of Brian Frons's. He saw a chem-test scene of Jason and Courtney on the docks and said in an interview that he had told Guza and Pratt that that was what he wanted to see more of. Coincidentally or not, the pairing then went into high gear. Also coincidentally or not, they later brought on a hunky cop named Brian to be infatuated with Courtney. 

Courtney even had a whole dream episode built around her and her romance with Jason, when she had been on the show for less than a year. The present-day equivalent would be if Shelly and Chris wrote a whole episode taking us into the mind of Willow.    

I think by the time that "fab/drab four" period ran its course, Courtney/Jason ended and the TB Carly was no more, a lot of people disliked Courtney on her own merits. The character was pretty obnoxious, pushy, and hard ("She's a strong woman like Carly, and even Carly loves her!"), and she had gotten off lightly for a lot of misdeeds, like shooting the above hunky cop in the back. So it was a combination of a lot of things. Too much too soon/overexposure, a perception of favoritism, bad writing, and the actress not being appealing enough to overcome it.

But she did have some fans.  

I didn't mind the very early Courtney. When she first came to town and was grossed out by Sonny's controlling ways, and did not take crap from Carly, I thought she was all right. But even then, I could see the story being set up for her to love her wonderful brother and his brave-and-strong wife, and I knew her relationship with AJ was not going to last. Sure enough, they wrote the dumb stripping-to-keep-AJ-out-of-jail story, and the even worse story where she was being stalked and AJ was behind it, and she defended herself by throwing flour at an intruder dressed as a skeleton. 

Shame, as ALW was better opposite Billy Warlock than she was with any of Steve, Ingo, or Tyler later.  

 

Yeah Courtney was ok at the very very beginning of her tenure. Then I hated her with the fire of a thousand suns.

 I agree she had good chemistry with BW's AJ, and him alone. I remember being happy that AJ was finally getting the girl he liked and a good arc, rubbing it in the face of Carson, Jason and all his haters. That lasted about five minutes. Then they reverted back to their normal state of AJ: Town Shiteater.

They shoved Corky into Jason's orbit, which helped to blow up Liason, which back then was very popular. A bunch of plots changed abruptly and this newbie began eating the show.  They ruined Courtney before she really got off the ground by not keeping her on the opposite side of Sonny's world. There was also the sickening moment Jason showed up at the strip club, climbed on stage and carried Courtney off bridal style, thus bastardizing the beautiful moment he had with Robin at the Nurse's Ball years prior. They had no chemistry whatsoever and were pretty universally loathed.  After being mercifully ended a year or two later, they were essentially expunged from GH history. She was Jason's wife and they had him act like he barely knew her name after they split. 

Now, the show's current state is full of Courtneys/pets that eat the show and chem-less Jourtney-esque pairings. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by CharethCutestory

[UYI]

8 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Alicia Leigh Willis was rumored to be a favorite of Brian Frons's. He saw a chem-test scene of Jason and Courtney on the docks and said in an interview that he had told Guza and Pratt that that was what he wanted to see more of. Coincidentally or not, the pairing then went into high gear. Also coincidentally or not, they later brought on a hunky cop named Brian to be infatuated with Courtney. 

 

 

I'll respond in the History thread. 

[Asp Burger]

15 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I wish writers would learn than shoving a character down our throats isn't the way to get us to like him/her. It does the exact opposite for me.

More than 20 years after The Simpsons skewered that TV strategy in the classic "Itchy & Scratchy & Poochie" episode, no one seems to have learned a thing ("Whenever Poochie's not onscreen, all the other characters should be asking 'Where's Poochie?'").  

[HeatLifer]

BM and Becky had chemistry and it was wasted for a now-retconned trash story that destroyed Liz’s character. BUT, there is a path to pair those characters again. Unfortunately, it will never happen because RoHo.

Edited December 29, 2018 by HeatLifer

[Bringonthedrama]

20 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

BM and Becky had chemistry and it was wasted for a now-retconned trash story that destroyed Liz’s character. BUT, there is a path to pair those characters again. Unfortunately, it will never happen because RoHo.

 

So true. I liked the quick Drew-Cam hug in the hospital (when Cam went to check on Oscar) because it acknowledged that Drew and Cam still have residual affection for each other from the "Jake"/Elizabeth relationship time. We also know that Jake still loves Drew as a father/uncle, and that Elizabeth and Drew still care about/respect each other.  My ideal scenario would be that an angry survivor of one of Franco's victims (possibly with mental health issues) corners him and kills him, saying something like "I can't live with knowing you're walking around free and that you have the audacity to be an art therapist after what you've done; I don't buy that a brain tumor made you do it."  Elizabeth and Drew leaning on each other in their suffering (him because of Oscar, her because of Franco, and he doesn't hate Franco anymore) could lead to them falling in love again.  Drew has said to Franco "Elizabeth is the best" - he was both attracted to her and found her to be a kind and caring person back when he had no memories or connections. I also think BM has played Drew as respecting that Kim has been devoted to Oscar since he was born, and he is eager to co-parent with her, but that's it. He understandably seems to feel awkward about Kim bringing up a past he doesn't remember. Kim seems to want Drew to remember her/feel something romantic toward her; one moment she seems invested in being with Julian and the next she's recounting to Drew how she felt being in his arms after they conceived Oscar.  It's just SO strange.   The hospital room kiss seemed like BM thinking "Ok I've been directed to kiss you, let's get this over with." Drew seems almost as repulsed by Kim's words/behavior as Sam seems by Jason being close to kiss her, lol.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Bringonthedrama

[Hater]

32 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

So true. I liked the quick Drew-Cam hug in the hospital (when Cam went to check on Oscar) because it acknowledged that Drew and Cam still have residual affection for each other from the "Jake"/Elizabeth relationship time. We also know that Jake still loves Drew as a father/uncle, and that Elizabeth and Drew still care about/respect each other.  My ideal scenario would be that an angry survivor of one of Franco's victims (possibly with mental health issues) corners him and kills him, saying something like "I can't live with knowing you're walking around free and that you have the audacity to be an art therapist after what you've done; I don't buy that a brain tumor made you do it."  Elizabeth and Drew leaning on each other in their suffering (him because of Oscar, her because of Franco, and he doesn't hate Franco anymore) could lead to them falling in love again.  Drew has said to Franco "Elizabeth is the best" - he was both attracted to her and found her to be a kind and caring person back when he had no memories or connections. I also think BM has played Drew as respecting that Kim has been devoted to Oscar since he was born, and he is eager to co-parent with her, but that's it. He understandably seems to feel awkward about Kim bringing up a past he doesn't remember. Kim seems to want Drew to remember her/feel something romantic toward her; one moment she seems invested in being with Julian and the next she's recounting to Drew how she felt being in his arms after they conceived Oscar.  It's just SO strange.   The hospital room kiss seemed like BM thinking "Ok I've been directed to kiss you, let's get this over with." Drew seems almost as repulsed by Kim's words/behavior as Sam seems by Jason being close to kiss her, lol.

 

They're clearly both not interested in their respective partners on screen.  The only thing is Billy gets just a little bit more slack in that Drew has no memories, has not given one indication of liking Kim in *that* way, is apparently according to the writers in the rags "still hung up on Sam." and the character has had a terrible year (Discovered he wasn't who he was, brain mapped, found out his wife lied to him and really wanted Jasus's peen, divorced, was almost molested as a child, son is now dying, etc.)

Kelly on the other hand, there is a zero slack for that. Sam's apparent "love of her life has returned from the dead"  a "love that just is!" and she acts as if she's getting her rectum examined.

I think Drew/Liz could happen again but not until after Friz get married. Roho signed a 3 year contract last year so unless FV gets tired of him, I don't know if he'll ever be cut. 

Unless Drew gets his memories, I think Krew is going to be a fantastic disaster.  But that is par for the course for GH and it's chemistry free pairings.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Hater

[HeatLifer]

Drew needs to get his memories and show an interest in women outside of Sam, especially if they refuse to do an actual triangle and/or the actors refuse to participate to accurately portray one. I don’t think Drew/Kim is as bad as JaSam, nor do I think Billy is giving as low an effort as Kelly, but I would still like to see more from him. The show gives him nada, so it’s not all his fault, anyway. If he is going to continue to be on GH, he needs to be given real material and treated like more than an extra.

[dubbel zout]

28 minutes ago, Hater said:

Unless Drew gets his memories, I think Krew is going to be a fantastic disaster. 

Drew getting his memories back doesn't mean he's going to automatically love Kim in the present. They still barely know each other, and who's to say Kim's love of cortados and avocado toast isn't a deal breaker for Drew? Or that Drew's gritted-teeth smile doesn't creep Kim out so much she doesn't want it around 24/7? (LOL)

[Hater]

12 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Drew getting his memories back doesn't mean he's going to automatically love Kim in the present. They still barely know each other, and who's to say Kim's love of cortados and avocado toast isn't a deal breaker for Drew? Or that Drew's gritted-teeth smile doesn't creep Kim out so much she doesn't want it around 24/7? (LOL)

This is true. lol.  But as they are right now, they have nothing in common outside of Oscar. I would like to see what the hell Drew likes before they go there, but I feel like they will....

And that's the thing I can't see Drew liking an avocado toast with or without memories.

This character is just completely wasted.  He doesn't even know his favorite color.  Billy is just cashing a check because what a "fall from grace" going from YR and never getting that primetime gig to GH and being a dupe for 4 years.  Sad.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Hater

[melody16]

I totally agree about Drew/Elizabeth. I thought I was the only one thinking that! Would love to see them revisited again or at least more scenes together. 

[dubbel zout]

Margaux has a ways to go before I want to see her with Drew. She was blackmailing him with his own memories. That’s gross. She needs to do something tangible before I’m ready to see her get a love interest. (Unless it’s Sonny, heh.)

[Ambrosefolly]

I think Serial Killer storylines are in general, terrible. Apparently Loving was the only Soap to pull it off and that probably was because the show was ending.  How does it work when the audience complains on the one hand, that mainly day players are killed, but refuse to let go of any character that have a long and involved history on the show. The only long term or contract characters that are fair game to be killed are the ones that usually have no real ties and/or are absolutely hated...so where are the emotional stakes in the story? Griffin might be on regularly, but I think the audience is feel more empathy to the tv producer that was just murdered for doing his job than Griffin, who was unapologetically screwing his girlfriend's daughter. 

It is now occured to me Jason alive or dead, won't change the show because the morality of the show has been so completely warped since Jason started working for Sonny, that it is almost immaterial. In the long run, GH allowed Jason's accident to be the worse thing that ever happened to show. Even when Luke raped Laura, it wasn't treated as "okay", kind off glossed over with the seduction bullshit, we never heard of Luke raping Laura after they got into a relationship or during their marriage and Luke not really blaming Lucky for getting the hell out the house when he found out. With Jason, they treat his murder-for-hire as in its on seperate sphere. They are now treating all murder for hire (Sonny killing Margeaux's dad as the first step to seducation)And unlike Sonny, he will always get the whole, lets not kill him because he is a Q. 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Ambrosefolly

[HeatLifer]

44 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

GH allowed Jason's accident to be the worse thing that ever happened to show.

They never let him progress into a better person/human, partly because of TPTB who already thought he was and because of the hold Mo and Steve had/have on their characters. 

Michael was also the beginning of the end because it held the character of Jason back, again, from becoming his own person. He never wanted his own wife/family. No one ever penetrated past Sonny/Carly/Michael.

[dubbel zout]

I don't mind Jason never progressed beyond the Borg, but I do mind that he became the town savior/moral authority/St. Jasus. No one is allowed to legitimately criticize him and not be mocked. The fact that his own mother slobbers for the tiny crumbs of attention he shows her, when his best friend unabashedly killed her son and his brother, says it all.

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't mind Jason never progressed beyond the Borg, but I do mind that he became the town savior/moral authority/St. Jasus. No one is allowed to legitimately criticize him and not be mocked. The fact that his own mother slobbers for the tiny crumbs of attention he shows her, when his best friend unabashedly killed her son and his brother, says it all.

But he wasn’t always Borg/Stone Cold. To me, that was born later, specifically because of the input of Steve Burton. So a part of me believes that the writers would have done something different if given the chance. 

I do agree that it’s crazy that no character is really allowed to judge him, but that’s not the larger problem of the character, in my eyes. Like, for me, Jason wouldn’t be a better character if people hated him or thought he was trash. I would have liked to see the writers have him grow. It’s pretty wild that he hasn’t changed in over 20 years. Nothing, no life experience, changed anything about him. That’s bad storytelling.

[OnceSane]

I still love Sam and KeMo. 

[WendyCR72]

If Borg won't change his personality, at least change the wardrobe up! Is he going to be 85 and in a T-shirt and leather jacket?

[HeatLifer]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

If Borg won't change his personality, at least change the wardrobe up! Is he going to be 85 and in a T-shirt and leather jacket?

And that’s another thing that was because of Burton.

[WendyCR72]

6 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

And that’s another thing that was because of Burton.

Kind of figured. But what works in your 20s and 30s starts to look sad in your 40s and onward.

[Hater]

Burton has aged horribly so dressing like 30 year old does not distract from his face aging like milk.

[statsgirl]

On 12/30/2018 at 3:56 PM, Hater said:

This is true. lol.  But as they are right now, they have nothing in common outside of Oscar. I would like to see what the hell Drew likes before they go there, but I feel like they will....

That's on the writing. As soon as they decided to swerve to tease Drew and Kim, they should have actually started writing a story of attraction and things in common other than Oscar. From Anna and Finn at one end, to the laziness of JaSam, the writing for relationships on this show is terrible.

Even if Drew is miraculously placed back into who he was 16 years earlier, Kim has done a lot of living in that time.

4 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

But he wasn’t always Borg/Stone Cold. To me, that was born later, specifically because of the input of Steve Burton. So a part of me believes that the writers would have done something different if given the chance. 

I do agree that it’s crazy that no character is really allowed to judge him, but that’s not the larger problem of the character, in my eyes. Like, for me, Jason wouldn’t be a better character if people hated him or thought he was trash. I would have liked to see the writers have him grow. It’s pretty wild that he hasn’t changed in over 20 years. Nothing, no life experience, changed anything about him. That’s bad storytelling.

Are you referring to Jason pre-accident? I just watched the retro episode and when Monica congratulations him on his baby and wants to talk about the dangerous surgery for Michael, the camera cuts to Jason and SBu has zero expression on his face. And then he blinks once.  (And I burst out laughing.) If that's what SBu wants to do for 25 years, he's the laziest actor I ever saw.

I don't mind if SBu doesn't want Jason to change. Some peopledon't and they can write it off with the brain damage. Let him keep his murderous judgey ways. The problem for me is that everyone act like he's a saint. I'm sick of the gas lighting.

[HeatLifer]

15 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

The problem for me is that everyone act like he's a saint. I'm sick of the gas lighting.

I agree that it’s annoying af, but I still don’t think if he was hated by the entire cast of characters that it would change how much they wasted Jason in terms of the entirety of his character. The beauty of soaps used to be that because they lasted for so long, that you could really see the development of a character over time. Jason has stayed the same, largely in part because of an actors wants and needs, and that’s unfortunate.

[Melgaypet]

1 minute ago, HeatLifer said:

Jason has stayed the same, largely in part because of an actors wants and needs, and that’s unfortunate.

I think this is what I find most infuriating about the Jason Morgan Problem. Why has Burton been so catered to for so long, to the point of warping the whole fabric of the show around his character? Even back in the days when he made a regular effort, he wasn't a towering talent. He was serviceable AT BEST. Add to that his reported sense of entitlement and shilling of his Ponzi juice or whatever the hell and I simply don't understand why he's worth the trouble. It reminds me of the old TWoP joke of Burton having blackmail photos of Frons fucking goats or something.

[HeatLifer]

3 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Why has Burton been so catered to for so long, to the point of warping the whole fabric of the show around his character?

Personal friendships he had with high-ranking people and his character’s popularity in its heyday.

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Jason has stayed the same, largely in part because of an actors wants and needs, and that’s unfortunate.

Wants, yes. But not needs unless he really can't act beyond blinking and staring.

The problem is that he drags other characters into his stasis. Sam lost 5 years worth of character growth when SBu came back.

[HeatLifer]

6 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Sam lost 5 years worth of character growth when SBu came back

I don’t think Sam ever had character growth, lol, so that’s where we disagree, but I get your point.

[nilyank]

13 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I don’t think Sam ever had character growth, lol, so that’s where we disagree, but I get your point.

I would add that Sam was acting out of character wanting things that she had never before and is now fine by not having them.

[Hater]

12 minutes ago, nilyank said:

I would add that Sam was acting out of character wanting things that she had never before and is now fine by not having them.

Fine? As in looking miserable on screen in almost every scene? lol.  I know what you're trying to say but her being fine does not come across in Kelly's portrayal at all.  

Edited January 1, 2019 by Hater

[nilyank]

1 minute ago, Hater said:

Fine? As in looking miserable on screen in almost every scene? lol.  I know what you're trying to say but her being fine does not come across in Kelly's portrayal at all.  

True enough, but that's on the writers and directors not following through with Kelly to act what is written.

[Hater]

19 minutes ago, nilyank said:

True enough, but that's on the writers and directors not following through with Kelly to act what is written.

I think Sam had a bit more point of view before Burton returned, whether that was in character or not...I think she did.  Now I think she's just a miserable sack of shit that spews out nothing of merit and just comes across as a brainless idiot who likes to sit on her penthouse couch and search the internet for clues.  So much for the "office was making her stuffy."  Yes sitting inside all day looking at emails from Linda Black is so much more thrilling.

Sam has been unwatchable this year.  The writers have not allowed her communicate one reason as to why she is with Jason at the moment or why he is a good choice for her.  All of that was glossed over in favor of "Aurora/Drew didn't let me be myself" which is bullcrap in itself.    That still doesn't explain why Jason is a good person to be in a relationship with.  Her "finding herself" story was her running into Jasus at every turn and doing some lame ass "P.I." work that made Aurora look like a Navy Seal operation.

Edit: But seriously, what is the difference between what Lulu is doing as girl reporter and Sam as in PI? Nothing, it's the same crap. 

Edited January 1, 2019 by Hater

[HeatLifer]

54 minutes ago, nilyank said:

I would add that Sam was acting out of character wanting things that she had never before and is now fine by not having them.

Sam changes her POV depending on who she’s dating. Sonny, Jax, Jason, Lucky, Jason, Silas, Patrick, NuJason, Drew, Jason...all met different versions of Sam based on who the writers wanted her to be at the time. She is the epitome of what we call an inconsistent character.

Edited January 1, 2019 by HeatLifer

[Ambrosefolly]

11 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't mind Jason never progressed beyond the Borg, but I do mind that he became the town savior/moral authority/St. Jasus. No one is allowed to legitimately criticize him and not be mocked. The fact that his own mother slobbers for the tiny crumbs of attention he shows her, when his best friend unabashedly killed her son and his brother, says it all.

 

 

9 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

But he wasn’t always Borg/Stone Cold. To me, that was born later, specifically because of the input of Steve Burton. So a part of me believes that the writers would have done something different if given the chance. 

I do agree that it’s crazy that no character is really allowed to judge him, but that’s not the larger problem of the character, in my eyes. Like, for me, Jason wouldn’t be a better character if people hated him or thought he was trash. I would have liked to see the writers have him grow. It’s pretty wild that he hasn’t changed in over 20 years. Nothing, no life experience, changed anything about him. That’s bad storytelling.

 

@dubbel zout. Totally agree. No one is allowed to legimately critize him, they bend over backwards to make his world view the correct world view. Now we have people like Carly and Ava the lead heriones when the bad girls of yesteryear (Tracy, Lucy)  were no near as criminal. Valentin can straight up murder a character with one of the best recons in GH history (Laura had a secret son on Cassadine island), and gets his house and fortune and serial killer Franco (who has shown tons of violent criminal behavior post tumor) was an art theraptist and is now engaged to Liz Webber. 

I really don't care if Jason has any character growth or not at this point because he should either be in prison still dead. However, the die has been cast. Being a murderer is okay. Not just someone who takes another's life in self defense or in defense of another (that can get you thrown in prison for 5 years. See Matt Hunter). At this point, it is entirely plausiblable to have Ryan Chamberlin as a character on GH, identity fully known. I mean why not? It couldn't damage GH anymore than Jason being treated as town has. 

[Oracle42]

On 12/31/2018 at 7:47 PM, HeatLifer said:

Sam changes her POV depending on who she’s dating. Sonny, Jax, Jason, Lucky, Jason, Silas, Patrick, NuJason, Drew, Jason...all met different versions of Sam based on who the writers wanted her to be at the time.

I think Sam's backstory went through several tortured contortions but the daily script writers gave the  character a relatively consistent throughline. They did the same with Liz, and miraculously with JJ!Lucky when he returned.

But the character has been unrecognizable since FV/RC - starting with her cozying up to McBain. Which never made sense, even if she hadn't been married to the mob, she'd been a criminal and a con artist her entire adult life. She went directly from that to Silas, to Patrick to Jakeson and for most of that time she didn't work and barely interacted with her family. They did the same thing with her that they did with Maxie, job and family suddenly disappeared and her full time job became whichever dude FV was pushing - that's not character growth, and it was never written that way.

[HeatLifer]

24 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

They did the same thing with her that they did with Maxie, job and family suddenly disappeared and her full time job became whichever dude FV was pushing -

I can definitely agree with this. Sam is/was very much attached to a man, as opposed to really being her own character, with her own dreams and motivations. Even the whole “I want children and a family” angle became very hollow because once she had that, they were all thrown to Monica and the Qs. And I get that soaps don’t have a history of really liking kids (unless the child actor was exceptional, and that’s rare), but Sam should have never been given that character arc. Characters like Sam and Jason never should have had kids, and that’s OK. 

[RedheadZombie]

I enjoy Curtis's friendship with Nina.  I think she has the best chemistry with him after Drew.

[Oracle42]

On 1/1/2019 at 10:06 PM, HeatLifer said:

Characters like Sam and Jason never should have had kids, and that’s OK.  

From what I remember the actors didn't want Jason/Sam to have kids either.

But since they can't unring that bell, having these kids should conflict with the lives they've chosen in a meaningful way.

[Hater]

38 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

From what I remember the actors didn't want Jason/Sam to have kids either.

But since they can't unring that bell, having these kids should conflict with the lives they've chosen in a meaningful way.

I don't know about Burton, but Kelly has always claimed she wanted Sam to have her little girl.

[HeatLifer]

2 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

From what I remember the actors didn't want Jason/Sam to have kids either.

But since they can't unring that bell, having these kids should conflict with the lives they've chosen in a meaningful way.

But it never will happen that way. For whatever reason, a precedence was set a long time ago that Jason and/or Sam’s main story arc is a villian coming after them and hurting their “happiness.” There will absolutely never be any sort of reflection on their choices or consequences.