S05.E10: Mother's Mercy

[VCRTracking]

Perusing the Unsullied boards(but not posting, okay mods), there's some posts that say it would have been better and more dramatic if Brienne had seen Sansa's signal and then find out Stannis is in the field. The she would have decide what to do: Avenge Renly or keep her oath to Catelyn? It would have been a good dilemma for any other character but this is Brienne. As much as she hated Stannis I personally think Brienne would no question have chosen to save Sansa. That's who she is. She is the one true knight in Westeros. Not  a child like Arya choosing to avenge Syrio and forgoing her Faceless training.

Edited June 17, 2015 by VCRTracking

[CletusMusashi]

I predict that Tyrion will turn Mereen into the Vegas of Westeros.  

I want tickets to the Mace Tyrell Show.

[CletusMusashi]

It would have been a good dilemma for any other character but this is Brienne. As much as she hated Stannis I personally think Brienne would no question have chosen to save Sansa. That's who she is. She is the one true knight in Westeros. Not  a child like Arya choosing to avenge Syrio and forgoing her Faceless training.

I agree about Brienne. But, to be fair to Arya, she's never shown herself to be religious, so not really being into the cult but still wanting to learn their assassination tricks isn't childish. It's pragmatic. The real question is: if Sansa were chained up in the brothel, and Arya had one chance to either save her sister or kill Trant, which would she do? I can quite easily see her saving Sansa. But being very pissed off about it.

[Hecate7]

I agree about Brienne. But, to be fair to Arya, she's never shown herself to be religious, so not really being into the cult but still wanting to learn their assassination tricks isn't childish. It's pragmatic. The real question is: if Sansa were chained up in the brothel, and Arya had one chance to either save her sister or kill Trant, which would she do? I can quite easily see her saving Sansa. But being very pissed off about it.

 

If the choice was between saving Sansa or killing Meryn Trant? I think Arya's response would be, "Sansa who?"

 

Besides, killing Trant she knows how to do. Unchaining someone in a brothel? Honestly, Sansa's already got way more skills in that department anyway. She picked a medieval lock with a corkscrew. I don't think she needs Arya anymore.

[DrSpaceman]

Sorry to nitpick but JFK and AL had already made a difference, which is why we know who they are.  I agree, we do lament, however what more might have been done.  I think a more fitting comparison would be JFK Jr. with all that was expected of him.  As for JS, he would have never been much unless he shook the NW free.  Sadly they shook him free first.  Like the Starks before him and really all except for Bran, he wasn't that quick on the uptake.

 

 

As a Whedonite from the beginning, I'm kind of used to losing a main character now and then.  But as a writer, I think it is a mistake to do it for shock.  It needs to mean something.  That can be done with extra scenes or extra words or just a moment of clarity.  I think Stannis' death would have been very poignant if it told a bigger story about the futility of the quest for power - as did an equally too long Lord of the Rings.  Jon's death would mean something if he had put something in motion that will bear fruit later.  I already wrote a path for Sansa that the writers didn't take (damn them all to hell!) - she could have been a contender had they shown her learning from her experience and, more importantly executing that knowledge.  Like how cool would it be to have Sansa be the one to bring down Littlefinger?  Arya's epic quest is annoying as hell.  It's not fun watching this girl kill and kill again.  I was hoping that the MFG would put out that hate in her heart so that one day she could love.  On and on, they built a world so building houses (stories) in that world shouldn't be so hard.  Also, if you are going to write Direwolves into your tale, you damn well better put them to good use.

 

 

I guess I did take Stannis death as written as a point of the futility of the quest for power.  He lost his daughter, his wife in the quest and it was all for nothing, he then gets slaughtered on the battlefield the next day. 

 

And Jon did make a first step in bringing together the wildings and those south of the wall.  Its a wait and see as to whether that bears fruit or not. 

[Macbeth]

I love the fact that Stannis's calvary deserted him and came to the rescue for the House of Bolton.

 

So you don't approve of Daddy sacrificing his child - Welcome to House of Torture.  Those are not crosses on our banners, but flayed men.  You'll see.  We'll be flaying some of your former comrades real soon.

 

Westeros has made quite a name for itself.  Sacrificing children, torture as a brand name.  And of course the Dead rising in the North - which the Bravos fleet (Most of Stannis's fleet burned up at Blackwater) witnessed first hand.  After they dropped off Jon et all off - they headed straight back to Bravos and told them to keep their money.  Lesson learned - Stay the F*** away from Westeros. 

 

Which is how Tyrion and his gang should learn about the dead rising.  Varys's little birds should be bringing that news real soon.

 

 

[JTMacc99]

On the other hand, I'm afraid Firebush would need a sacrifice to save him, and it might be Ghost.

 

But on the other other other hand, if Jon gets another story arc with another redhead, you do know what five words she's going to have to tell him, like five or six hundred times, don't you?

Well, she's always going on and on about "royal blood" and we last saw Jon's blood spilling out of him. And I think we're all pretty sure he's got a heck of a lot of Royal in his blood.

 

Seems like maybe she can swoop in and do her thing, whatever the heck that is, and we can have a Frankensnow of the North who will hopefully be less horrible than the various other reincarnated folks on this show. 

[annsterg]

I love the fact that Stannis's calvary deserted him and came to the rescue for the House of Bolton.

 

So you don't approve of Daddy sacrificing his child - Welcome to House of Torture.  Those are not crosses on our banners, but flayed men.  You'll see.  We'll be flaying some of your former comrades real soon.

 

Westeros has made quite a name for itself.  Sacrificing children, torture as a brand name.  And of course the Dead rising in the North - which the Bravos fleet (Most of Stannis's fleet burned up at Blackwater) witnessed first hand.  After they dropped off Jon et all off - they headed straight back to Bravos and told them to keep their money.  Lesson learned - Stay the F*** away from Westeros. 

 

Which is how Tyrion and his gang should learn about the dead rising.  Varys's little birds should be bringing that news real soon.

 

Unless I missed something (entirely possible), I am pretty sure Stannis's cavalry deserted, period, and scuttled away, vs going over to the Bolton side.

 

 

Can anyone think of an instance where an actor has claimed he's been let go from a show which turned out to be a bold-faced lie? I know there are actors who are written off then come back in later seasons but I can't remember an occasion where someone went around giving interviews saying "No, I won't be back next season" that just turned out to be an enormous ruse to throw the fans off.

 

Sure! It happens on soaps all the time...which just confirms my long held opinion that GoT is a soap -- albeit one with high production values.

Edited June 17, 2015 by annsterg

[DarkRaichu]

Well, she's always going on and on about "royal blood" and we last saw Jon's blood spilling out of him. And I think we're all pretty sure he's got a heck of a lot of Royal in his blood.

 

Seems like maybe she can swoop in and do her thing, whatever the heck that is, and we can have a Frankensnow of the North who will hopefully be less horrible than the various other reincarnated folks on this show. 

If Melissandre does not have the ability to revive Jon, we still have the Necromancer WW coming soon who we KNOW can animate the dead.   My point is, this is not the end of Jon Snow. He will be back, one way or the other :D

 

 

Unless I missed something (entirely possible), I am pretty sure Stannis's cavalry deserted, period, and scuttled away, vs going over to the Bolton side.

 

They did not mention it in the show, but there were only 2 way out from the area for a group that size.  One was to go back up via the wall to board the ship home.  Or two went south via Winterfell.  Winterfell was much closer to Stannis encampment, so there was a very good chance they went south and hired by Boltons in exchange for passing through Winterfell 

[Constantinople]

Perusing the Unsullied boards(but not posting, okay mods), there's some posts that say it would have been better and more dramatic if Brienne had seen Sansa's signal and then find out Stannis is in the field. The she would have decide what to do: Avenge Renly or keep her oath to Catelyn? It would have been a good dilemma for any other character but this is Brienne. As much as she hated Stannis I personally think Brienne would no question have chosen to save Sansa. That's who she is. She is the one true knight in Westeros. Not  a child like Arya choosing to avenge Syrio and forgoing her Faceless training.

Then why did Brienne abandon her vigil the moment heard Stannis was around?

Not that I thought much of Brienne's plan. The situation would have to be sufficiently dire for Sansa to attempt to light the candle, but not so dire there isn't enough time to get to the tower and light it. Then, somehow, Brienne sneaks in to the castle and then, somehow again, sneaks out with Sansa. That's assuming the candle is even visible given the weather and lighting conditions.

[peggy06]

Did the sellswords desert Stannis out of disgust? Or just because there was no food, or supplies, and Melisandre's magic didn't immediately provide anything? It would be nice to think they took a moral stand, but then why didn't they intervene when it could have done some good?

[JTMacc99]

Did the sellswords desert Stannis out of disgust? Or just because there was no food, or supplies, and Melisandre's magic didn't immediately provide anything? It would be nice to think they took a moral stand, but then why didn't they intervene when it could have done some good?

I assumed it had something to do with getting a better deal elsewhere.

[terxav]

On whose ship was Jaime returning to Kingslanding on?  If it is Dornish is there any way it would not return to the shore?

[Lady S.]

Did the sellswords desert Stannis out of disgust? Or just because there was no food, or supplies, and Melisandre's magic didn't immediately provide anything? It would be nice to think they took a moral stand, but then why didn't they intervene when it could have done some good?

Yeah, I really doubt the mercenaries were taking a moral stand, defecting when the risks start outweighing rewards is what sellswords are known for. One group had already deserted earlier, then the others find out they're following fanatics willing to burn anyone, but they didn't confront Mel during the act because she's a scary witch and Shireen's murder wasn't really any concern of theirs, at least not one worth turning heroic.

 

On whose ship was Jaime returning to Kingslanding on?  If it is Dornish is there any way it would not return to the shore?

It must have been, the Dornish Ninja Turtles killed the guy who snuck them into Dorne and I believe this ship had sails with the Martell sigil. (Speaking of the Pussysnakes, how is saying you have a bad pussy supposed to be sexy? It just sounds Booberella is warning that she has an STD or a really mean cat.)

[DarkRaichu]

 

(Speaking of the Pussysnakes, how is saying you have a bad pussy supposed to be sexy? It just sounds Booberella is warning that she has an STD or a really mean cat.)

Yes sure, in the context of their conversation / interactions, she warned him about her pet siamese that likes to bite ears :)

[proserpina65]

What kind of "religion" encourages name-calling and throwing disgusting objects at a person?

 

Judaism?  Christianity?  Both have their versions of the Walk of Shame.  Islam might too, but probably not involving nudity.

[Snaporaz]

Judaism?  Christianity?  Both have their versions of the Walk of Shame.  Islam might too, but probably not involving nudity.

Exactly. Westboro Baptist Church comes to mind.

[Lady S.]

Yes sure, in the context of their conversation / interactions, she warned him about her pet siamese that likes to bite ears :)

JS, it's a terrible pick-up line. Maybe bad girl pussy, but just bad pussy, no.

[proserpina65]

Oh, but her angry face was worth another three or four lines.

That looks like 'smell the fart' acting to me.

[NoWillToResist]

Even with the well deserved death and her punishment, I was still kind of bored by Ayra's storyline.

 

Ye Gods, I would rather have replaced ALL of Arya's "story" this season with Bran's treehouse.

 

Brienne chose vengeance over her oath to Catelyn.  Brienne must have known that this was the best time to get to Sansa, but couldn't resist the temptation of killing Stannis. 

 

Her (admittedly weak) assumption is that no candle = everything's good. No candle was lit during the approximate four million hours she sat watching that window. It's only story contrivance which had the candle be lit .5 microseconds after Brienne left her post to accomplish a tangible goal.

 

 

Dorne.  What a waste of a few good actors on a slow, shitty storyline.  Dornish doesn't harm little girls, but will poison them!  The Sand Snakes were a disappointment.  Tyene poisoned Bronn, gave him the antidote, and for a final act, teased him with her kitty cat.  What was the point? Would have made more sense to have Bronn stay in Dorne since this Snake took such a shine to him.  And you can't tell me that Doran would just let his teenage heir go to King's Landing so easily.  What, no raven service? No one to tell him that shit just got real in the capital?   I don't mind suspending my disbelief since GoT is fiction, but this story just plain insulted my intelligence.

 

Doran seems to have an unwise amount of trust/faith in people. He believed Ellaria would stand down and that sending his son off with Mycella was an act of good faith. It's contrivance that Ellaria and her minions would be there to see off the girl she conspired to kill (bonus contrivance to let her be within touching distance).

 

I also choose to believe that Pod was watching her back while she had her revenge moment, so no one could threaten her from behind. Because that had me on pins and needles, worrying someone would sneak up on her during her righteous speechifying.

 

I was yelling at my screen "DID YOU NOT SEE OR HEAR WHAT HAPPENED WITH OBERYN?? SHUT UP AND JUST KILL HIM!"

 

So Ser Jorah can find it next season whilst out looking for her.

 

I have no sympathy for Cersei. It was 15 minutes into her walk before she finally dropped her holier-than-thou attitude and was back to plotting world domination

 

I will call a MOUNTAIN of bullshit if 'Team Find Dany' manages to track Drogon's flight path, gets to that exact bone horde, wander off as Dany did, and find her tiny ring among the tall grass of that massive field.

 

That aerial shot of Ramsay's army marching on Stannis' group reminded me of the Total War games I've played.  You could tell not only from Ramsay's massive numbers advantage but also the precise formations  of his troops compared to Stannis' disorganized clump of men that it was going to be a slaughter.

 

Unless my eyes deceived me, Stannis and his puny army were utterly surrounded in a snowy field. So...how exactly did he end up in a forest?

 

Also, the LoL melted the snow, which allowed them to advance on Winterfell, so how was there a big snowbank for Sansa to jump into?

 

 I guess we were supposed to enjoy Cersei's comeuppance, but that's not a victory, that's celebrating someone else's misfortune, and honestly I was thinking about Margaery the whole time, wondering if she's going to have to endure the same thing (or already has) and dreading her suffering.

 

I don't think Marg will suffer that fate since her crime was perjury, not fornication. I started to feel bad for Cersei until I realized that if Marg were in her place, Cersei would have watched that with a smile on her face.

 

Someone helps me reconcile this whole Myrcella poisoned by the Sand Snake thing.  Is it just me or it is very dumb for Ellaria to use a poison that takes mere 1/2 to 1 hour to activate ?  Wouldn't the prince of Dorne aboard the ship immediately figure out that aunty dearest had poisoned his lover ?  Who else touched Myrcella and could benefit from her dying ? Neither Jaime or the young prince benefited from Myrcella's death.  The ship was so close to the port, they should turn around and arrest the Sand Snakes immediately.  I am going to be so disappointed if next year they do not do this.

 

Seriously, being poison expert, at least she should have used some super slow poison that could kill AFTER they had reached King's Landing.

 

Yeah, there's not a lot of plausible deniability here.

 

Sure, but Cersei will be damned if she's letting such trivial things as reason or not having an army interfere with her wrecking things up and starting a war. Her and Ellaria would get along greatly if they weren't after each other's throats.

 

Ha! Right? Jesus, can you imagine them united against a common goal? They are both such cruel, petty assholes.

 

The Lannisters will blame Dorne.  And Myrcella seems to be afflicted with a similar poison to the one that hit Bronn a few episodes back.  And I am sure he'll inform Jaime.  On the other hand without proof Doran has no choice but to support his own.  And if Trystane is taken back to King's Landing to be placed in a black cell as payback for the death of Myrcella that will certainly mean war.

 

If Jaime doesn't find a way to turn that ship around and have it sail the required ten feet back to Dorne, he's a fucking idiot. And since he just showed some signs of intelligence by telling Mycella that he didn't think Cersei really liked him, I'm hoping he (and the prince) return Mycella to Dorne to confront Ellaria.

 

Taking Dorne's prince to KL with a dead Mycella = a bad idea.

 

I suppose there may have been a time ellipse between our view of the boat off the dock and Jaime's little chat with Mycella but I don't think it would be long enough to justify NOT immediately going back to Dorne.

 

So, after four seasons of not giving a shit about Jon Snow, I get interested in him after the White Walkers attack and now he's been killed off? Sounds about right...

[CletusMusashi]

(Speaking of the Pussysnakes, how is saying you have a bad pussy supposed to be sexy? It just sounds Booberella is warning that she has an STD or a really mean cat.)

If it's the latter, I'm already shipping it with Ser Pounce.

[Unusual Suspect]

Unless my eyes deceived me, Stannis and his puny army were utterly surrounded in a snowy field. So...how exactly did he end up in a forest?

 

As they left a forest, it wasn't far behind them. I assume when the army broke, the remnants fled into the woods, where they were hunted down and finished off. Enter Stannis. 

 

I've never been team Stannis, I, like Brienne, wanted vengeance for Renly. So I was glad to see that. But I've long run out of people I actually root for, I just wait and see who falls next.

[MrWhyt]

Unless my eyes deceived me, Stannis and his puny army were utterly surrounded in a snowy field. So...how exactly did he end up in a forest?

 

Also, the LoL melted the snow, which allowed them to advance on Winterfell, so how was there a big snowbank for Sansa to jump into?

When Sansa is placing the candle in the window we get a shot of her POV and you can see the forest in the distance, also when the shot zooms out to show the Bolton forces charging on Stannis' men you can see the forest behind them. As for the snow, it can stick around for a long time, I've regularly seen snow in well sheltered areas here all the way into June. melting enough to allow easier passage may still leave significant amounts against the walls at Winterfell.

[morgankobi]

I suppose there may have been a time ellipse between our view of the boat off the dock and Jaime's little chat with Mycella but I don't think it would be long enough to justify NOT immediately going back to Dorne.

 

 

I'm pretty sure we saw Mycella's nose bleeding, and then cut to "Snakes On A Dock" with Ellaria's nose bleeding. The shot of them panned over to the ship Jamie was on --about 100 ft. away. They could probably wade back.

[Taget]

Did the sellswords desert Stannis out of disgust? Or just because there was no food, or supplies, and Melisandre's magic didn't immediately provide anything? It would be nice to think they took a moral stand, but then why didn't they intervene when it could have done some good?

 

Sellswords desire two things.  To make money and to make it out alive.  There is an element of honor involved in that they don't want a reputation for being cowards who cut and run.  That would hurt profits.  But so would being annihilated.

So each one of them is asking two questions of Stannis.  Can we win?  And is he mad?  After losing his supplies and doing a Hail Mary human sacrifice of his own daughter the mercenaries in his employ quite rightfully determined he is a religious nut who will bring them all down if they follow him.

 

I don't think you're dealing with moral people.  While they'd feel bad they wouldn't have left if Stannis had burnt say Roose Bolton's daughter alive as a political or even personal statement that he's serious about obliterating the Boltons.  But his own daughter?  For some religion they don't believe in because he wants the blessing of some fire God for a battle they all know they had no business fighting?

 

That was a step too far.  Being alive AND not fighting for the guy who stood there listening while his own tween daughter cried for mercy while clutching her dolly?  That's a win-win.  Or in the case of Stannis Baratheon a lose-lose.

[Rocket]

I had mentioned before the Army was sort of in a state of shock when Stannis burnt his daughter. Later talking about sell swords reminded me of how crappy mercenaries normally were. A normal reward to mercenaries is to loot, burn and rape anyone they care too when they take a town. So mercenaries are not that caring about killings. Probably no one knew who they were going to burn until it happened and there was no Davos to lead a mutiny. 

 

I do assume the mercenaries went over to Boltons, they did not have the supplies to do anything else, probably are working for enough food to make the coast and not much more. Mercenaries are also known in history for changing sides. Government employee army's called professional militaries kicked mercenary ass over and over again and so the age of the Mercenary ended in the last few centuries. Recent experiments in this area ignoring history have not gone that well over all. There were historically a few mercenary units that matched the emerging professional armies like the Swiss Guards that still guard the pope but that was the exception not the rule.  

[CletusMusashi]

Why did Ellaria just stand there, waiting for the signs of poison to show? First of all, it's obvious to anyone who happens to look at you. Is she trying to get caught? I can understand if she is. It would fit with the characters' grief and alleged moral conflict. But if she's not worried about getting away with it, then why not do it quicker? Walk over to say goodbye, stab the girl, and then get your head chopped off by Entire Secret Service Guy. All standing on the shore waiting for obvious signs of poison to show does is implicate yourself and your daughters for regicide. And if you're just going to take an antidote immediately anyway, then what's the point? Not even a death wish makes any sense.

All it does, to me, is:

a. To show us that the poisoner who just kissed the girl on the lips who is now dying of poison used poison on her lips. Because apparently the writers do not think any of us have ever seen a movie or TV show in our lives. and

b. Reminds everybody how stupid and nonsensical that "instant antidote" trope is. You've been standing there while the poison permeated your entire blood stream. It has now done enough damage that you are starting to seep blood out of your respiratory system. Ah, but if you just swallow the cure, it will magically bypass your stomach lining and go straight into your bloodstream where it will immediately cure all damage done by the chemical that was working on you for a longer time!

Is it magic poison? i hope so, because that would actually be more plausible.

[morgankobi]

For a moment, before I remembered that there was a magic!instant!antidote!, I had a bit of respect for Ellaria for having the lady cajones to kill herself to just get revenge. 

 

I know she would like to wipe out the Lannisters to both avenge Oberon and finish his avenging (for his sister?), but there were only six notable ones left as of the start of last week. She had 1/3 of them in her house and decided to only go after the teenage ditz. Meh.

Edited June 18, 2015 by morgankobi

[WearyTraveler]

For a moment, before I remembered that there was a magic!instant!antidote!, I had a bit of respect for Ellaria for having the lady cajones to kill herself to just get revenge. 

 

(Bold and underline are mine)

 

The word is cojones.  Cajones means drawers, as in the ones where you put your socks (not as in underwear).  Cojones means balls, specifically male genitalia (balls to play sports, like soccer, are called balones and smaller balls to play tennis or ping pong are called pelotas -pelotas can also refer to male genitalia, but balones never do, and cojones is never used to refer to anything other than a guy's balls).

 

I thought you'd like to know :D 

Edited June 18, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[bmoore4026]

Correction, he's saying he won't be back next season.

 

Given HBO's track record of killing characters, regardless of popularity and/or likability, I'm pretty sure the Snow has turned to Slush.

[Last Time Lord]

Given HBO's track record of killing characters, regardless of popularity and/or likability, I'm pretty sure the Snow has turned to Slush.

I feel bad for laughing at that as hard as I did.

[bmoore4026]

I feel bad for laughing at that as hard as I did.

 

Was it because of my doubts in Jon Snow coming back or the "Snow/Slush" comment?

[penelope79]

Why did Ellaria just stand there, waiting for the signs of poison to show?

I agree with your entrie post, but as for this specific question, my impression was that Ellaria waited for the signs of poison in order to know when it would've affected Myrcella too, i.e. she was already too far for Jamie to bring her back to Dorne in time to try to save her.

 

That said, if Jamie comes back asking for Ellaria's head I don't think Doran will deny it, because he already told her that that was his last warning.

Edited June 18, 2015 by penelope79

[CeeBeeGee]

Unless my eyes deceived me, Stannis and his puny army were utterly surrounded in a snowy field. So...how exactly did he end up in a forest?

 

Birnam Wood came to Dunsinane.

[Last Time Lord]

Was it because of my doubts in Jon Snow coming back or the "Snow/Slush" comment?

The Slush.

[NoWillToResist]

Why did Ellaria just stand there, waiting for the signs of poison to show? First of all, it's obvious to anyone who happens to look at you. Is she trying to get caught?

 

I may be wrong, but I thought only Ellaria and her sand fleas were standing on the dock at that point.

 

I want to know why she didn't use the poison which takes effect when the poisoned person's heart-rate kicks up (the one used on Bronn). Mycella might have been all the way back in KL by the time she expressed enough emotion to be affected! ;)

 

I just can't fathom how this doesn't result in Ellaria being executed by Doran. Surely it will be obvious to all that she was the one responsible and they turn the ship around and return for revenge. Hell, I can't imagine that M's fiance will be happy about what happened; he might lead the charge against Ellaria. And so, yeah, unless she plans on running (with a stunning 10 minute head start), I don't see how she thought this would play out.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

 Ellaria and her sand fleas.

 

 

 

        D-E-A-D!

[annsterg]

If Melissandre does not have the ability to revive Jon, we still have the Necromancer WW coming soon who we KNOW can animate the dead.   My point is, this is not the end of Jon Snow. He will be back, one way or the other :D

 

 

They did not mention it in the show, but there were only 2 way out from the area for a group that size.  One was to go back up via the wall to board the ship home.  Or two went south via Winterfell.  Winterfell was much closer to Stannis encampment, so there was a very good chance they went south and hired by Boltons in exchange for passing through Winterfell 

 

Hmmm we don't know where the ships were told to wait for Stannis.

 

Looking at the map, it seems nuts -- as others have posted -- for the ships to have dropped the Wildlings north of the wall.

 

It also seems nuts for those same ships to be still waiting for Stannis, north of the wall -- it seems to make more sense for them to be further south off the coast, in that bay south of the Dreadfort.

[CletusMusashi]

(Bold and underline are mine)

 

The word is cojones.  Cajones means drawers, as in the ones where you put your socks (not as in underwear).  Cojones means balls, specifically male genitalia (balls to play sports, like soccer, are called balones and smaller balls to play tennis or ping pong are called pelotas -pelotas can also refer to male genitalia, but balones never do, and cojones is never used to refer to anything other than a guy's balls).

 

I thought you'd like to know :D 

My balone has a first name... it's O-S-C-A-R...

[morgankobi]

(Bold and underline are mine)

 

The word is cojones.  Cajones means drawers, as in the ones where you put your socks (not as in underwear).  Cojones means balls, specifically male genitalia (balls to play sports, like soccer, are called balones and smaller balls to play tennis or ping pong are called pelotas -pelotas can also refer to male genitalia, but balones never do, and cojones is never used to refer to anything other than a guy's balls).

 

I thought you'd like to know :D 

No, no, see...she had to put on her big-boy-pants... which she got from her drawer, to pull this off...and, ehh I got nothing  :(

Edited June 18, 2015 by morgankobi

[Jaded Sapphire]

(Bold and underline are mine)

 

The word is cojones.  Cajones means drawers, as in the ones where you put your socks (not as in underwear).  Cojones means balls, specifically male genitalia (balls to play sports, like soccer, are called balones and smaller balls to play tennis or ping pong are called pelotas -pelotas can also refer to male genitalia, but balones never do, and cojones is never used to refer to anything other than a guy's balls).

 

I thought you'd like to know :D 

Stannis lives!

[Lady S.]

For a moment, before I remembered that there was a magic!instant!antidote!, I had a bit of respect for Ellaria for having the lady cajones to kill herself to just get revenge. 

 

I know she would like to wipe out the Lannisters to both avenge Oberon and finish his avenging (for his sister?), but there were only six notable ones left as of the start of last week. She had 1/3 of them in her house and decided to only go after the teenage ditz. Meh.

That would have been a much better outcome, since I fear we're going to be inflicted with her and the Pussysnakes again in s6. (If they could make Julius Caesar a supporting player who only appeared in 5 eps, then why couldn't Indira Varma have been limited to s4? They should have let the undeveloped Pussysnakes lead Operation Stupid Vengeance themselves instead of bumping Indira Varma to the main credits just to waste her on this embarrassing shit.)

 

BTW, I updated my long-ass character guide soon after Sunday night, but I'm linking the death count here for anyone who didn't see it, since I think the thread is about to get pushed off page 1 again.

 

[WearyTraveler]

My balone has a first name... it's O-S-C-A-R...

 

Ah! but the singular is "balón"  :-P

 

Stannis lives!

 

See above :D

[Elkins]

I think this show is going to lose viewers by getting rid of important characters.

I know, right? How is anyone supposed to stay interested when they kill off all the good characters? No Ned, no Robert, no Drogo... I mean, what's supposed to hold our interest here, the kids and the dwarf?

</2011>

I'm really surprised by the number of people who thought Drogon was possibly dying in that scene. It just didn't read that way to me at all. Don't you think if we were meant to understand Drogon to be that severely wounded, then Dany would be showing signs of concern, rather than pestering him to fly her home or catch them both some food? I mean, I know that she did lock her other two dragons away when she was afraid they might hurt people, but still. She loves Drogon. I really think that if he were that badly wounded, we would have seen her trying to help him somehow, trying to clean and bind his wounds maybe, or at the very least stroking and comforting him. Instead, she was nagging him to return to Meereen, trying to clamber back onto his back... I just can't see her acting that way if her baby were suffering from life-endangering injuries.

I also interpreted all those charred skeletons to mean that Drogon had taken her back to the nest he'd made for himself since leaving Meereen. When he lay down there, it didn't look all that ominous to me; it just looked like him doing the dragon equivalent of lazing about on the couch in his bachelor pad.

 

RE: Walk o' Shame:

I hope they paid Lena's body double very well for that. And also that she was given her own trailer and awesome food to eat and expensive booze and free backrubs and assistants to order around for as long as she was on set, because holy hell, even for someone accustomed to professional nudity, that could not have been fun.

 

I think the scene went on far too long. The shame vs just punishment point IMO was made the moment her hair was shorn and she was made to be naked in front of the city. Personally, the length made it less interesting. JMO

Huh. I couldn't disagree more. I thought the scene had to be that long in order to work properly. If it had been short, it would have been far too easy for a viewer to just think, "Ha ha, Cersei! You got what was coming to you!" rather than being forced to confront the true ugliness and misogyny of what was going on. For it to work as well as it did, the viewer had to desperately want it to end.

I also think that making it too short a scene would have run a very high risk of making it just kind of gross and exploitative, because it would have run the risk of making Cersei seem like the object of the scene, just yet another naked lady on Game of Thrones, rather than enforcing her position as subject. This was a sequence that was carefully designed to anchor the viewer in Cersei's point of view, and one of the particular techniques they used to do that was dependent on that length.

The sequence begins and at first, just like Cersei, the viewer thinks: well, it can't be so difficult to just ignore everyone and keep your head up high long enough to reach the Red Keep, can it? They're only peasants, and they're not going to be allowed to physically attack her or anything; I mean, c'mon, it's not that long a walk, right? And then the scene drags on and on and on and ON, and the camera keeps panning up to the Red Keep, so that you and Cersei can both see that, yeah, maybe it's getting closer but not really all that much closer, not half closer enough...until finally you find yourself reaching the same revelation that Cersei is. Namely, that no. No, actually, it can be "so difficult," because 'short' and 'long' are highly subjective notions when it comes to time, because time is not a solid object, time can be even more elastic than ethics, time just makes no damned sense, time can even stretch out endlessly towards an infinitely receding horizon...and this walk is never going to be over, not really. It's going to be going on forfuckingever.

To pull that off, the scene really did have to be almost unbearably long, IMO. That length was absolutely essential to the sequence's narrative construction.

 

Not to mention that her daughter was just murdered. Cersei is going to go mad king on everybody, and it's going to be a hell of a thing.

And I can't wait. I've been waiting for her to burn that city to the ground for years now. Come ON, Cersei! Surely there has to be some of that wildfire left somewhere?

 

Speaking of Myrcella, while Nell Tiger Free did a fine job, I really do have to wonder what about Myrcella's role this season was considered so challenging that they felt the need to recast the part. It's hard to imagine that Aimee Richardson wouldn't have been able to handle that material.

 

I cannot believe that they were so shortsighted as to leave the heir to Dorne in the hands of what is bound to be outraged Lannisters. Unless he brought a whole contingent of Dornish guards with him and they are able to take over the ship?

Yeah, I'm a little confused as to their intent there as well. Are they actually planning an all-out coup? Who is next in the line of succession after Trystane? The Sand Snakes are bastards, so I assume they can't inherit. Do they plan to flee the city? Are they just sort of hoping that Doran doesn't find out about it? Or is--

 

Ugh. You know, that Dorne plotline was just such a mess that I wonder if there's even any point to trying to make sense of it. I mean, is it going to continue next year as part of some actual continuity, or is it going to be like "Yara tries to rescue Theon," where we all just try to pretend it never happened at all?

 

 

I love that apparently no one bothered to steal Mel's horse, probably out of fear.

 

Hah! My husband said the same thing. "I thought they took all the-- oh, right, her horse. Yeah, I wouldn't have risked taking that one either." The nag was dark and full of terrors.

 

I don't know, she ignored the teachings of her supposed Master, failed to carry out her actual assignment getting justice for someone else for a change, stole a face from the super assassins with no training as to their use, then blinded a guy subjecting him to an extended and brutal death with repeated stabbings with a really small knife which brings her death toll to what ? 10 people she's killed ?

And she is blinded as a result. I don't think that's particularly harsh considering she's basically a psychotic teenager with a hit list of people who've 'wronged her' . YMMV though.

Indeed. I can't say that I feel Arya is being terribly wronged here either. She apparently wants the Faceless Men to teach her all of their special skills -- as well as providing her with room and board in their high temple -- while she continues to ignore their teachings and disrespect their religious beliefs. I hate to use the word 'entitlement' here, but honestly now! I can't help but think that if she isn't sincere in wanting to serve (as all men must), then she shouldn't expect those guys to keep giving her free power-ups.

 

I know everyone's pissed at Olly, but in slight defense of him (very slight), he did watch Jon let in the people who murdered his parents last season. I can kinda see how that pushed him to his breaking point.

Yeah, I'm not really feeling the Olly hate either. I get him. He's just another Arya, really: just another child twisted and warped by trauma and the desire for vengeance. He saw everyone he'd ever loved -- everyone he'd ever even known -- murdered by a bunch of cruel barbarians who were then rewarded by the LC with gifts of land. Possibly some of them are even going to be given the same land that his slaughtered family and village once farmed. Of course he's pissed! He's traumatized and angry, and who can blame him? I would be too, I suspect, and I'm a middle-aged adult. Olly's still just a kid, and kids by virtue of their very youth don't have all that much experience dealing with disappointment or sorrow, let alone rage.

So I'm not fussed about Olly. It's Aliser Thorne I'm feeling extremely disappointed in. I know he's been an asshole antagonist from Day One, but all the same, I really didn't think that he would lead a mutiny. I thought he might very well stand back and allow mutineers to act unopposed, washing his hands of Jon in much the same way he did with Slynt, but I didn't expect him to be one of its leaders. I don't know, the characterization there just seems a bit off to me. I feel as if it should have taken considerably more provocation to make Thorne turn.

I also think the mutineers were total dicks for involving a kid to the extent that they did. Anyone could have lured Jon out to the courtyard with that tale of Benjen's return; it didn't need to be Olly. They are grown men of the Night's Watch, and presumably they believed that they were doing what they had to in order to preserve the institution of the Watch itself. Regardless of whether we think they were right or not, their decision was an adult one, rooted in their sense of responsibility and of duty. It was not a decision for a child who hasn't even yet sworn himself to the Watch. I guess maybe they wanted to accept Olly into their fold because they think of him as a future brother-in-arms or something, which...okay. Fine, so keep him enough in the loop so that he knows what is coming and won't be surprised by it, then. But there was no need for a group of adults to give a child still too young to take a binding oath such a starring role in an assassination, and plenty of very good reasons not to.

 

.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Speaking of Myrcella, while Nell Tiger Free did a fine job, I really do have to wonder what about Myrcella's role this season was considered so challenging that they felt the need to recast the part. It's hard to imagine that Aimee Richardson wouldn't have been able to handle that material.

When I saw that the role had been recast, I assumed that Myrcella would have a much bigger part to play this season. Instead she got maybe ten lines of dialogue total so I don't understand why they felt the need to hire a new actress. The last one could have handled saying, "But I love my boyfriend and I'm not going home with you," "Do you like my new dress?", and "I already knew you were my uncle-daddy."

[izabella]

Not to mention that her daughter was just murdered. Cersei is going to go mad king on everybody, and it's going to be a hell of a thing.

 

I'm not so sure about that.  She has one ally - Qyburn.  And FrankenMountain.

 

Cersie has no power without money (Lannisters are broke) and men to fight her battles (which they are no longer doing since the Lannister Army is with Kevan at Casterleigh Rock and he doesn't seem the least bit interested in what is happening to Cersei and KL).  Jamie could have been an ally as leader of the King's Guard, but who knows if he's ever coming back?  He might end up a prisoner in Dorne again.  I also don't think the King's Guard is going to do much in Jamie's absence since the KING himself wasn't interested in trying to help Cersei.  And every other army in Westeros is no friend of Cesei Lannister.

 

So what is Cersei going to do when she has no people to do much?  I suppose Qyburn can go around poisoning people?

[orza]

When I saw that the role had been recast, I assumed that Myrcella would have a much bigger part to play this season. Instead she got maybe ten lines of dialogue total so I don't understand why they felt the need to hire a new actress. The last one could have handled saying, "But I love my boyfriend and I'm not going home with you," "Do you like my new dress?", and "I already knew you were my uncle-daddy."

Maybe the previous actress wasn't available for the time frame they needed her or she was difficult to work with or her parents were a PITA on set or said no to the show or other reasons that they didn't want her back.

[WearyTraveler]

I'm not so sure about that.  She has one ally - Qyburn.  And FrankenMountain.

 

Cersie has no power without money (Lannisters are broke) and men to fight her battles (which they are no longer doing since the Lannister Army is with Kevan at Casterleigh Rock and he doesn't seem the least bit interested in what is happening to Cersei and KL).  Jamie could have been an ally as leader of the King's Guard, but who knows if he's ever coming back?  He might end up a prisoner in Dorne again.  I also don't think the King's Guard is going to do much in Jamie's absence since the KING himself wasn't interested in trying to help Cersei.  And every other army in Westeros is no friend of Cesei Lannister.

 

So what is Cersei going to do when she has no people to do much?  I suppose Qyburn can go around poisoning people?

 

Qyburn told Cersei when he visited her in her cell that Pycelle had sent for Kevan and that Kevan is now the Hand of the King.  But I don't know if Kevan will fight for Cersei or take orders from her.  In any case, if Tyrion didn't use all the wildfire they had in the Battle of Blackwater, she might get her hands on some of that and who knows what would happen then.... I fear for the innocent people in KL.

[MrWhyt]

But I don't know if Kevan will fight for Cersei or take orders from her.

Why would he? He's The Hand of The King, and she's the former queen.

[Avaleigh]

Why would he? He's The Hand of The King, and she's the former queen.

She isn't the former queen. Her title hasn't been removed. At best she's former queen regent and even that isn't clear yet based on what we've seen on the show.

 

 A queen's title isn't removed because she's a widow or because she's done a walk of a shame.