Season Three Discussion

ncz · June 13, 2015

Hi, I just wanted to share that this OITNB season broke my heart.
1. Niki was one of my favourite character! It was really depressing to watch so many episode without her in it
2. Daya and Bannet. I don't think I have to explain.
3. Alex and Piper. This season revealed that their relationship isn't what we thought it is. Piper seems to has interest in Alex only when she is that badass criminal "that I fell in love with. she was hot". So when Alex reveals her vulnerable side and humanly get scared, Piper turn off and cheats with the next hot tough lesbian on call. she only wants to be in this relationship when it fucked up! She even disgusted by the idea of "loveing fuck", Like it so unusual to mix love and sex, cause sex only goes with hate and hair pulling.
4. Piper changing so fast this season, from a sweet girl who hold her lover gentlly and caress her cheek for her to stop cring she turnes into this bitch who uses poor girls and frames up girl that she had feeling for few seconds ago right before she gets out and all of this for money and power. Where the hell is the girl that wantad to be a teacher? the girl that tried to make the prison a better place? the girl that makes normal mistakes and hurt people she love but not really on purpose, the girl that often cries and gets scared and regrets and feeling lost, the girl we could all relate to and even though she is incredibly annoying.

I know it is only a TV show but I've got to say that I am really depressed. when you waiting for a story for such a long time and watch it for 14 hours accumulaty (!!!) it really get to you and if it is sad it makes you sad, doesn't it? It is good for TV show to makes you sad sometimes but there is a limmit, it is really sucks when it breaks your heart 4 time in on season because ultimately, you watchTV shows to feel good on the big picture. please tell me I'm not the only pathetic one here...

p.s: sorry about all the spelling and grammer mistakes, English is not my mother tongue.

FaithsMum · June 13, 2015

This season disappointed me, rather than upset me.

I missed Nicky. I love her scenes with Morello; last season after Nicky witnessed Christopher's visit and Morello was crying to her that no one is ever going to love her with Nicky responding that *she* loves her was one of the most touching scenes of the season, for me. I kept hoping Nicky would come back and was pretty pissed off that didn't happen.

Piper is insufferable now. I have always found her irritating but now she's acting like a badass kingpin, I wanted to punch her. I felt bad for Flacca when she "fired" her for wanting to be paid for what they were doing. I get that prison is dog-eat-dog but most of those women know *real* poverty in a way Piper could never understand and it pissed me off she was ripping them off when she was making so much money off them. I then loathed her for bragging to Alex about how "badass" she was.

I don't think Piper is a bad person; most people are neither all bad nor all good - I just don't like her. Her more redeemable qualities don't, well, redeem her for me and the less she is on my screen the better. The same applies to Alex who I dislike too - the talent in this cast really shows what a meh actress Laura Prepon is as well.

I still love Morello, Red, Poussey, and Suzanne although none of them had great story arcs this season.

Boo's friendship with Pennsatucky was, by far, my favourite of this season. I really enjoyed them together as they're such an unlikely pair and I hope it continues into season four. With the absence of Morello and Nicky scenes, this became my substitute!

Edited June 13, 2015 by FaithsMum

Cranberry · June 13, 2015

This thread is the place to discuss season three as a whole, so if you're reading before finishing, expect spoilers! If your post is about a specific episode, it should probably go in that episode's thread instead.

Trick Question · June 13, 2015

Suzanne as Litchfield's filthy answer to George R.R. Martin never stopped being hilarious.

JAYJAY1979 · June 13, 2015

Nicky leaving so early.in.the season was surprising, yet memorable.

Pennasucky (aka Jesus freak) finally got a good story arc and a great friend/sidekick in Boo. She was underused in season 2..and used well in season 3...so I have faith that poussey, tastee etc will get another turn next season.

Piper/Alex need to exit stage left...the arc is played out.

I loved all.the back stories featuring ching, Leanne, Norma and an in depth one of Nicky. I kind of want to see quirky Angie's backstory next season as well.

Janet Snakehole · June 13, 2015

This season disappointed me, rather than upset me.

I missed Nicky. I love her scenes with Morello; last season after Nicky witnessed Christopher's visit and Morello was crying to her that no one is ever going to love her with Nicky responding that *she* loves her was one of the most touching scenes of the season, for me. I kept hoping Nicky would come back and was pretty pissed off that didn't happen.

Piper is insufferable now. I have always found her irritating but now she's acting like a badass kingpin, I wanted to punch her. I felt bad for Flacca when she "fired" her for wanting to be paid for what they were doing. I get that prison is dog-eat-dog but most of those women know *real* poverty in a way Piper could never understand and it pissed me off she was ripping them off when she was making so much money off them. I then loathed her for bragging to Alex about how "badass" she was.!

Oh my god, I agree so hard with your Piper assessment. I always kind of liked her, but now she is purposely trying to be an asshole, and is not even entertaining with it. I prefered her awkwardly trying to fit in while also somewhat staying to herself last season. I also completely agree with being sad about Nicky, some of the heart is gone now.

The Gloria/Sophia conflict was good, particularly because I could see both sides.

I have mixed feelings about the whole Norma storyline. It seemed very reductive of everyone following Pennsatucky and Vee previously. I did like that in the end Norma was the one to kind of stop it.

Mixed feelings overall. I definitely do not feel the same sense of satisfaction that I felt after season two.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Janet Snakehole

Sophronisba · June 13, 2015

All in all, I liked this season quite a bit, but I didn't like the Piper-as-kingpin business and I didn't really buy the attempt at a feel-good ending. It didn't really have one strongly plotted story propelling the season forward the way season 2 did, but it had a lot of great scenes and moments and lines.

The early reviews talked about this season being lighter than last season. That may be true for the first few episodes (which is what the reviews would have been based on) but I thought it went to some pretty dark places in the second half, with the Gloria/Sophia storyline, the Soso story, and the Pennsatucky arc with the guard. In some ways it ended up feeling darker to me because there wasn't a single Big Bad who could be killed off in the end, just the relentless misery and frustration of prison wearing people down.

One nitpick: the lack of resolution to the Morello/Christopher story bugged me. So four strangers force their way into his house and beat him up and it never comes back to Morello? Didn't they even mention her to Christopher at the beginning? Christopher's never been shy about going to the police in the past, so I don't know why this hasn't come back to bite Morello.

elzin · June 14, 2015

I think they didn't say why they were doing it and they might have scared him enough that he wouldn't report it. Like if he takes it and is silent, it's over, but if he reports it then THEIR friends come back. I feel really bad for him but I did laugh when I realized what was going on.

Plus too Morello again has the perfect alibi: she's in prison.

I think I kind of like the two of them marrying. They're both so dysfunctional that maybe they can help each other. They were really cute together and I love the female CO (I always forget her name) letting them bang in the vending machine room.

JellyFishQueen · June 14, 2015

Wow- I think this show would be better off if they write off Piper character at this point. Really it felt like her story was just Plot C. No real character development and little scream time, and honestly I'm okay with that. Piper probably at the bottom who interest me and I would be happy if she went away and show just focus on everyone else. Her stick got old in end of season 1, and I think her loosing connection to outside world really flatten her character.

However though I did like this season but it kinda felt off to me, like the creator of the show left and someone else took over trying to recreate the pervious creator. I know this didn't happen but it feel like that, example be when Community creator left and season 5 was just blah. I mean the premier mother day kinda felt like a middle ep then a premier.

Edited June 14, 2015 by JellyFishQueen

Mindymoo · June 14, 2015

Boo and Pennsatucky's relationship was the best thing about this whole season. I was left underwhelmed, to be honest, but those two shined whenever they were onscreen together. I never cared much for either character- in fact, I HATED Tucky- but they make one hell of a team. Tucky's rapes were hard to watch as a survivor myself, and I understood where she was coming from when she was trying to place the blame squarely on herself for it, because I did the same damn thing after my rape/assaults. Boo standing up and saying fuck no, that's not your fault, was so awesome to watch. As was Boo's taking down the pastor, and Tucky admitting that she's still taking money from those sleazebags.

I don't give a shit about the Alex cliffhanger, or what Piper did to the girl who stole the panty cash, or Caputo and Fig's hate fucking. Morello's wedding was cute, I guess. However, even as an atheist, I do admit to being moved by Black Cindy's conversion to Judaism. That felt completely real to me. And even though the lake sequence went on too long, I was glad she got her Mikveh. I don't know how she plans on doing that after each menstrual period, but whatever. And to think that he had a real spiritual transformation after just trying to BS her way into getting the Kosher meals. And aww, Suzanne has a girl with a crush on her. I did appreciate the look into the for-profit prison industry, and how corrupt and rotten it is. If I had to grade the season, I'd give it between a B and B-.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Mindy McIndy

ridethemaverick · June 14, 2015

My unpopular opinion is that I didn't muss Nicky one bit.

I enjoyed the season. It was weird in a lot of ways but completely watchable for me.

The actress who.plays black Cindy? Killed that scene with the rabbi. I think I was happiest for her out of them all. Then probably Soso for finding a home with the black girls.

Alaida is a miserable hosebeast and I hate her most out of everyone this season.

My other unpopular opinion is that I like Bennett/Daya and was sad to see him go. But it made sense for the story so I can't complain too much.

I like that Lolly ended up being a garden variety conspiracy theorist/nutjob instead of an assassin. Don't care about Alex but I did feel for her. Piper's an asshole.

I also enjoyed Flacca's back story. She strikes me as a very bright girl, an unconventional thinker. Wasted potential there and heartbreaking that she's losing her mom.

I still hate Healy. I felt a smidge of sympathy for him when his wife wouldn't even show him the courtesy of fake laughing at his joke. Beyond that, he can bugger off. He and red have no chemistry IMO so I hope that doesn't happen next season.

Poor Sophia.

Overall, good season for me.

Edited June 14, 2015 by ridethemaverick

FaithsMum · June 14, 2015

Oh my god, I agree so hard with your Piper assessment. I always kind of liked her, but now she is purposely trying to be an asshole, and is not even entertaining with it. I prefered her awkwardly trying to fit in while also somewhat staying to herself last season. I also completely agree with being sad about Nicky, some of the heart is gone now.

The Gloria/Sophia conflict was good, particularly because I could see both sides.

I have mixed feelings about the whole Norma storyline. It seemed very reductive of everyone following Pennsatucky and Vee previously. I did like that in the end Norma was the one to kind of stop it.

Mixed feelings overall. I definitely do not feel the same sense of satisfaction that I felt after season two.

I preferred that Piper too. She irritated me often but she's much better when she's on the receiving end of Nicky's one liners or bouncing off Red. I hated her again when she set up Stella, *not* specifically because she set her up but that she was so cold about it; she went to say goodbye before doing so after toying with her for several episodes when she had a girlfriend in Alex. I have a hard time getting for too irate with Stella for stealing from her when Piper had been making thousands of dollars a week, and only paying the others in food flavouring. 100% of those women are going to be in a worse situation than her when they get out of prison; Piper may have no job, and now she's split with Larry, no home but I doubt her parents are going to see her on the streets and starving or she's going to find herself in a position of communitting crimes again just to survive.

Oh, I liked the Gloria/Sophia conflict too and was on both of their sides! Gloria *is* badass, but she's also kind - I loved it when she jumped in to defend Flacca to Piper despite the fact they'd been arguing two minutes prior. For me, Gloria is tough without being hard and I believe she genuinely cares for her girls. I really liked Gloria this season. Flacca, too - and I laughed when she said "I'm getting arrested for *not* dealing drugs!"

I agree with you about Norma. I think it'd have been better if the cult of personality arc had played out sooner. That and Suzanne turning into E. L. James both went on for too long. Like you though, I liked it that Norma ended it herself. I wonder if she realised she was a lot like her "husband" - that that is who she was becoming and ended it so her followers wouldn't waste their lives as she did hers. I hope that was the reason, anyway.

Edited June 14, 2015 by FaithsMum

possibilities · June 14, 2015

We still don't know why Suzanne is in prison, do we? They did all those flashbacks from her childhood last season and this season they said shew as banned from being around the children on Mother's Day, but they never said how she got locked up in the first place (or did I miss that?)-- and I really want to know.

I kept thinking Lolly was faking her paranoia, just waiting for a good time to catch Alex unaware. If she wasn't there to "make a move" then why was she keeping that notebook? But when she started warning Alex about the new toothpick guard, and Alex tuned her out, I had a bad feeling. I have watched TV enough to spot that kind of foreshadowing, and I was really bothered that Alex volunteered to stay behind and sweep-- why would she do that? Since when was she altruistically volunteering to do more work? And she should not be allowing herself to stay behind alone when she knows that even if she doesn't suspect Lolly anymore, she still has a legitimate fear.

Piper is unforgivably awful but I don't mind that they've written her that way. I wanted Flaca to start her own competing panty business and pay the wearers more fairly, forcing Piper to be less of a dick. I kept waiting for that to happen. But I guess she really is still the kid who doesn't want trouble and now has kind of given up.

Piper had been making thousands of dollars a week, and only paying the others in food flavouring. 100% of those women are going to be in a worse situation than her when they get out of prison; Piper may have no job, and now she's split with Larry, no home but I doubt her parents are going to see her on the streets and starving or she's going to find herself in a position of communitting crimes again just to survive.

This so much. She's worse than Red because at least Red actually cared about her community. With Piper, it's ONLY for her own ego and profit. With Red it was a mix of that with some genuine caring for others.

Boo and Doggett were great this season. I'm hoping Poussey/Soso and Suzanne/woman whose name I don't know are carried over and given some interesting development in Season 4.

I'm glad they're exposing the for profit prison business.

Did Bennett report Cesar? Was he trying to do his best for the baby and wiated til he guessed the birth had taken place? I was horrified by Aleida, but I was also not happy about Pornstache's mom having the baby and planning to give him access to it. The whole situation is a huge, huge disaster on every level.

Lorna having Christopher beat up was really upsetting to me.

I kept waiting for some resolution to the issue of the new counselor being "put on leave" and "investigated." Did hiring her actually cut Healy's workload in half? His hatred of her was a good hard reminder of how he's more than just pathetic or a fuck up, he's really got a sickening streak to him that's actively witch hunty and viciously prejudiced.

I actually liked Cindy's unexpected eventual sincerity during her conversion. She did kind of nail some of what I loved most about my Jewish religious education growing up. We were always told that we are responsible for our lives and for each other and for the world's conditions and that we shouldn't look at God as a Divine Fix It. On the other hand, it's way more common for inmates to find Buddhism or Islam while incarcerated, isn't it? So I'm not sure why they felt a need to showcase Judaism in particular. I get it about the kosher meals, and I took the point about how the meals led into the process, but still. They had an opportunity with the Qu'ran being the only book to survive the library purge and they chose not to go there, except for Piper saying it was more interesting than she expected.

Don't even know what to say about the Norma religion story. At some points it annoyed me nearly to death but at other points I thought it was pretty interesting.

Very much appreciated that they finally gave some lines and story to Chang, but was disappointed that she disappeared after the first few episodes, and never really got integrated into the ensemble. It was very hard to connect the person she was in the flashbacks with the person we see now, which has not been the case with anyone else whose backstory we've seen.

I do think it's insane that they fence had that cut in it and no one noticed? Don't they walk the perimeter and pay attention at least slightly?

Edited June 14, 2015 by possibilities

JellyFishQueen · June 14, 2015

I have a theory that Benner turned in Dia Family (Can't remember his name) to the police, or maybe he turn himself in for what he did and is in prison now. Also so happy Dia no longer pregnant, that girl been pregnant for 3 years now. Also after she gave birth she really didn't show any emotion to having a kid? I mean when her fellow intimate (I forgot her name as well, seriously I read these message board going who is that) gave birth in season 1 when she came back she really looked grief and heart broken. But Dia...nah, just fighting with her mom. Oh by the way, I really don't have much sympathy for Dia and her mother relationship simply because the mother allows a NUTJOB around and raise her kids. Thank god the police arrived at season 2, I mean she trying make it up to Dia in prison but she got other kids outside world who she never really seem to care for really...

Kiddvideo · June 14, 2015

I do think it's insane that they fence had that cut in it and no one noticed? Don't they walk the perimeter and pay attention at least slightly?

I thought is was because all the guards quit.

Lots of questions from me, too. How does Piper think she can continue her business now? No way Stella doesn't give her up. And how is it the CO's knew about the naked photos of Litchfield prisoners being online but they (and the underwear company whose material and trademark are being misappropriated) haven't found the retail site?

Boo and Tucky were my favorite part of the season, and I loved that the writers changed Tucky's character from nutso religious freak to run of the mill scammer.

Glad Bennett rabbited, though too bad it wasn't before two of God's stupider people procreated. I wonder if Pornstache's mother will get the baby now that it's a ward of the state. We didn't see if Daya named a father on the birth certificate, but he'd have to be on record as such because of his trial, I'd think. Will Daya have any input into where her baby goes? Meaning, she can tell the state she'd rather have the baby in foster care rather than go to Grandma in Greenwich? And with McGorry working on a different show, do the writers even have the option of having Daya name Bennett as the father, unless the storyline plays out off camera?

I guess I'll be watching season 4. lol

possibilities · June 14, 2015

I thought is was because all the guards quit.

I meant the cut Caputo and O'Neill found earlier, when Caputo saw the chicken. They found Chang's tangerines there, too, IIRC.

The other one, where everyone ran through to the lake, I do think had to do with the guards being AWOL, and the workers being clueless.

marylennox · June 14, 2015

I may be in the minority here, but I do not like Big Boo's character. She is super creepy (the way she hits on women) and always has to remind everyone she is gay. I know there are women out there like her, but it's like they made her being butch THE defining thing about her character. Couldn't she have some other backstory besides just being a big butch lesbian? I have no issue with her looking the way she does and that being part of her identity, but no one's sexuality completely defines them. It took a while for me to understand that she and Pensatucky were actually starting a real friendship because everything she says is so damn sarcastic. Please, give Boo another storyline.

I loved the Leanne backstory and the Flaca backstories. I really want to know Maritza's story for some reason. Poor kiddie Daya. Never stood a chance.

I was kind of surprised that Bennett left because I thought he truly loved Daya. But I guess it was all too much...plus it had to be done for the story. I guess Bennett is never coming back?

Lady Calypso · June 14, 2015

I don't really like Boo either, I never really have. But honestly, the only time I enjoy her is with her scenes with Pennsatucky. I think she's actually genuine when she's around her and I don't cringe because she's not hitting on her or anything like that. I didn't even like her flashback scenes that much, but this is the most I've liked her in the series so I guess credit goes to Pennsatucky for that.

Speaking of, I hated Pennsatucky in the first season, absolutely loathed her. I didn't even like her all that much for most of the second season. But I think once they stopped making her into a caricature (in my opinion) and made her a little bit more sympathetic, I started to really enjoy her. This season made her in my top five favourites for sure.

I never liked Daya but I even felt some sympathy for her when Bennett up and left. I'm going to guess Matt McGorry was filming HTGAWM around the time that they filmed season three (not sure when they filmed season 3 though), and that's why they sent his character away. But it also made sense because why would Bennett want to stick around with crazy Cesar who thinks holding a gun at his son is a good parenting tip? I'll also jump on the 'Bennett called the DEA on Cesar' train. I'm not sure why he would do it now, but if Bennett is somehow keeping tabs on Daya and the baby, I can see why he would. I'm going to guess Bennett will come back next season, even if it's just for a couple of episodes.

My opinion of Piper turned 180 degrees this season. I actually really liked Piper; I may not have always liked her storylines, but I liked Piper as a person. And now she's turning into a version of Alex because the version of Alex she fell in love with is gone due to her (rightful) paranoia. Prison certainly is changing her, and not for the better. I now think she's awful and do not wish to see her return to Alex. Speaking of, I'm going to guess Alex survives? I can't believe I'm saying this because I never was loving Alex, but the girl deserves better at the moment.

Aleida is an awful mother, just awful. The actress is great and I wanted to feel for her during her crying scenes, but I can't muster it. She's seriously awful and, like Daya, I also don't fully buy her sob story about how she was thinking of Daya and the baby. I like Gloria and her rivalry with Sophie is definitely coming to a head next season.

The backstories on Chang, Leanne and Norma were really interesting to see; I do like them as supporting characters though, and don't mind if those are the only flashbacks we see of them.

Poussey/Soso are building up a relationship, which is good because Soso needs a better support system. Susanne and what's her name (like a lot of people, I must have missed her introduction and her name because I can't even recall what it could be) could be interesting too and the first half of the season didn't do justice for making me like Crazy Eyes, but the second half made her more likeable. Which is good, because I loathed her in the second season, despite the fact that I know it wasn't her fault and she was being manipulated by Vee.

Caputo is great; I love him because he does truly care about everyone at the prison, but he's put in a tough spot because he has no power outside of the prison. Well, now he will and he can help but he can only do so much, and now his guards up and left. It disappoints me because I wonder if they have any idea on how much he's fought for them and how the business side of the prison system works. Clearly not, because they dumped him like a hot potato when he got that promotion, but it was to help them.

Healy, on the other hand? I am really hoping Healy/Red do not become a couple. Healy is the worst of them all. He's misogynistic, racist and he has a severe ego problem with underlying anger issues. I don't have to be a psychologist like Birdy to know that. I feel bad for poor Birdy; like Caputo, she was trying to help the inmates in her own way and Healy goes to get her suspended because he can't handle the fact that someone is better than him (and a black woman, no less!). Healy is an interesting character, but he will likely never get sympathy for me. Even with his Ukrainian wife who doesn't care for him. She may be a bitch, but he's on the same level, if not worse than her. But sadly, I love to hate him on my screen. I really, really do.

I feel bad that we may not see Nicky again; I liked her and I thought she had more story potential. But maybe her and Bennett will somehow find their way back on the show. Maybe there'll be an episode where a character goes to max (wrongly) and we'll get to see how Nicky's doing.

Overall, the season was slightly diisappointing with some not so great storylines (the Piper/Alex/Stella storyline, the panty storyline, Crazy Eyes' erotic novel), but there were also some pretty good ones (Danny/Caputo, Boo/Penns, Sophia/Gloria).

Chaos Theory · June 14, 2015

I love Boo. I know plenty of people who tell people in the LGBT community that they don't care that they are gay but they shouldnt be so loud about it. They should fit in more and their lives would be better. Some simply can't. Which is why I loved Boo's flashback. Yes it was not surprising but it reinforced the idea that Boo couldn't be anything other then Boo. Even as a child you could see Boo in her.

I know Piper isn't always a favorite but I love her. I loved what the show did with her this season. She is no longer a fish out of water and is now fully emerged in prison life.

I also loved Nicky's story and how it made sense as well. The self-fulfilling tragedy of it.

I also like Bennets backstory which is unusual. The Bennett/Days storyline has always been the least interesting thing about the show for me; however his backstory was interesting in that it also reinforced things we already know. He's a good guy with no follow through. His fight or flight is set to flight.

<~~~~my iPhone likes to make up words.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Chaos Theory

marylennox · June 14, 2015

I don't think it is about being loud about it and taking pride in it and being yourself, but reminding people every three minutes you are gay. I am Jewish and know Jews who do this and PoCs who also do this. WE GET IT. I just really dislike how her sexuality seems to be her defining feature...and her character also seems to be hypersexual. Like...what else is Boo besides a butch lesbian? It's like they decided that was the only dimension to her character.

As far as Nicky, please come back! Does anyone know why Natasha Lyonne left? Was it a scheduling thing and just temporary or is she really gone for good?

Chaos Theory · June 14, 2015

Re: Boo it is hardly one dimensional. She is intelligent and conniving. Last season she sided with Vee and crew because they offered her more then Red did. This season she was the one coming up with all the ideas for selling the heroin while Nicky was sandbagging it at every turn.

I also love her scenes with Pennsatucky and they do more then just talk about sexuality. I think Boo and Pendatucky are a comedy duo and their scenes have a lot of heart.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Chaos Theory

ridethemaverick · June 14, 2015

Speaking of Healy, I cracked up when he listed Birdie's ever changing hairstyles as one reason he dislikes her. It was a wtf moment, but also funny and made sense for a person like him.

He'd hate me so much LOL.

marylennox · June 14, 2015

I thought Nicky was pretty crass as well at times, but her character was never made out to be "The Lesbian" and her flashbacks weren't all about her homosexuality. Like most people, her homosexuality isn't her defining feature. I'm hard pressed to think of a conversation Boo has had that doesn't mention, "I love eating pussy!"

ciprus · June 14, 2015

Solid season, but not as addictive as the previous two.

I was really sad to see Nicky go, she's been such a vital part to the show for me. I think the show missed the boat on exploring her relationship with Morello further, it ended with such potential last year. I also think her struggle with addiction could have been fodder for many episodes to come. Her episode was very well done, though.

Piper was really pissing me off, especially in the last half of the season. She whines that she won't have any prospects when she gets out, yet she has rich parents who she can live off, like her brother does and she and Larry did before, while her "employees" are payed in fucking seasoning. I rather enjoyed that she was robbed, even though Stella sucked as a character.

She is also a complete SHIT girlfriend. She offers zero emotional support when Alex is rightfully scared and depressed. As soon as she finds a new shiny thing, she strays while whining that Alex is clingy when she (correctly) suspects Piper of cheating. Piper is the ultimate hypocrite. I wouldn't mind her getting out and not coming back.

Donut Man needs to go down in flames. I'm oddly proud of Boo and Penn for not revenge raping him. Their scenes were the best part of this season. I have so much love for Penn now. Boo is growing on me too, but I'll be happy if there is no more sex scenes with her in the forseeable future.

Healy is still a horrible human being. Getting Birdie fired (?) for being a much better councellor than him is just more proof of what a vindictive little man he is. Stay away from Red!

Glad someone is into Crazy Eyes, someone who seems to appreciate the kooky.

I felt for Soso this year. Good character development there, she was getting on my nerves so bad last season. Hope she gets with Poussey, they'd make sense together - even tough I didn't see it coming at all.

Cindy's conversion was so well acted and sincere. I was actually shocked. Very compelling, even to a raging atheist like myself.

I also liked the whole corporate run Litchfield storyline very much, from how it impacted the inmates to the officers and Caputo, standing with one leg in each camp.

Didn't care for the drawn out Norma plot or Morello getting married. That won't end well. The transphobic plot could have gotten a bit more development for it to be truly compelling. Maybe next season.

I was worried about Alex this season because I knew that the more they talked about her being paranoid, I knew someone was coming for her in the end. She also wasn't as bad as Piper was making her out to be. She was rightfully scared, after what happened to Fahri. I couldn't enjoy the beauty of the lake scene because just I wanted them to cut back to the greenhouse.

Mindymoo · June 14, 2015

I thought Nicky was pretty crass as well at times, but her character was never made out to be "The Lesbian" and her flashbacks weren't all about her homosexuality. Like most people, her homosexuality isn't her defining feature. I'm hard pressed to think of a conversation Boo has had that doesn't mention, "I love eating pussy!"

I'm a lipstick lesbian. I've known people in the LGBT community whose families have outright rejected everything about them, so they find comfort in being the outest, loudest, most stereotypical lesbian/gay man you can find. Women who butch it up to eleven, men who are like a cross between Freddie Mercury and Elton John's stage persona, because from a very young age, that's what they thought being gay *was*. Yes, you can be from a repressive household and go the opposite direction and from a progressive household and be flamboyant, but for some people, that's just their expression. And since they lived for so many years being told that what they are is wrong, shameful and evil, that one part of their identity becomes the loudest part.

marylennox · June 14, 2015

I'm a lipstick lesbian. I've known people in the LGBT community whose families have outright rejected everything about them, so they find comfort in being the outest, loudest, most stereotypical lesbian/gay man you can find. Women who butch it up to eleven, men who are like a cross between Freddie Mercury and Elton John's stage persona, because from a very young age, that's what they thought being gay *was*. Yes, you can be from a repressive household and go the opposite direction and from a progressive household and be flamboyant, but for some people, that's just their expression. And since they lived for so many years being told that what they are is wrong, shameful and evil, that one part of their identity becomes the loudest part.

I hear you, I just wish there was more to her character.

Riful · June 14, 2015

I thought Nicky was pretty crass as well at times, but her character was never made out to be "The Lesbian" and her flashbacks weren't all about her homosexuality. Like most people, her homosexuality isn't her defining feature. I'm hard pressed to think of a conversation Boo has had that doesn't mention, "I love eating pussy!"

I don't recall that coming up in e.g. Boo's conversation about the heroin, or when she 'comforted' Penns about the abortions she had where she also mentioned Freakonomics, or any of the times addressing the rape Penns experienced.

Personally I find it refreshing that Boo's sexuality is addressed more than once and she is brazen about it. 99% of the time with gay (or bi) female characters on TV, some audience members will often praise writers for 'not letting the sexuality of a character be their defining trait'. However what they often mean is that they are happy it is barely mentioned. It is so not in their faces that they can pretty much pretend the character is straight or at least not be confronted by the clear presence of someone that is not straight on their screen. Boo is a character that does not make it easy for audience members to forget she ain't following the entrappings of society regarding sexuality (and conventional gender expression).

Here is the thing. Yes we (LGBT*) are just like everyone else. Being queer is not our sole characteristic. However we do actually also talk about being gay/bi/pan/queer - quite often. Not a week goes by without discussions or comments between myself and other queer friends about LGBT* stuff or just random comments like say cute girl walked by. There is a difference between letting a queer character be more than just that, and having it be so un-addressed that the character would seem straight unless you tuned in during two episodes a season.

Boo is someone who represents the more butch identity, however try to think of 5 butch TV lesbians. I don't even think there is 5 within the past 10 or 15 years. At least not as an actual character instead of some crime victim or perpetrator one off on a procedural show. The more 'acceptable' tv lesbian package is the more fem looking one, and Boo is one that tends to make a lot more people uncomfotable. Mostly because her sexual identity seems so 'loud to them' (that is ignoring the fact that it is their own prejudices that heavily creates that notion). So what if her sexual identity was part of her flashback (although I could argue it was more her gender expression there)? It is very integral and huge part of her. She knew from early on she was different and tried to be true to herself, and her surroundings tried to force her to not be. That was the essence of it and paralleled to her current story line with the pastor.

It also showed that Boo was unwilling to downplay that part of herself for money in the end. And more specifically, I think one of the main reasons she changed her mind was when the pastor mentioned that her fake story would go on a pamphlet to be spread around. I don't think she liked the idea that it would be a story of conversion that other LGBT* kids might read.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Riful

marylennox · June 14, 2015

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I don't think she SHOULDN'T be Butch or that there shouldn't be conversations about sexuality, because all of this is realistic for the situation. I also don't think she shouldn't discuss her backstory as being negated by her parents, but it seems like in the series it is one of the sole identifiers. She does even mention it with 'Tucky, talking about how much she likes to eat pussy. Her character seems to be talking about sex all of the time as well, which concerns me as it plays into a stereotype of a scary butch lesbian who is out to have sex with every woman whether they are gay or straight. I don't have a problem with her character being butch, like I said, or her butchiness being part of her storyline, I just sometimes see it as THE storyline with her and to me it makes her come off as one dimensional. Nicky was also hypersexual and crass, but she was redeemed for me in the fact that she also seemed to have other storylines.

If there was a male character on the show so hypersexual and crass, I would also dislike his character, no matter how "real" he is. Pornstache is slightly an example of it, but then he's also a shitty person in general. Boo isn't a shitty person, just not my favorite character.

Morbs · June 15, 2015

Maybe it's unfair, since there are so many characters and plots some are bound to bore me, but I was impatient with several of the longer plots like the baby drama, the Norma cult, the Panty stuff, and anything with Alex. I like the vignettes and any scenes with the groups of women (especially the black women) where they are just enjoying each other's company and having a ball but a lot of the plot archs just leave me cold. I can't think of a popular TV couple that has less chemistry than Piper and Alex, and I think it has everything to do with the casting, which is strange to me because everyone else is so well cast and they were able to find so many gems.

Black Cindy delighted me the most, and I love Pennsatucky and her relationship with Boo. I think Boo's episode might have been my favorite. She definitely is a horndog, but that Freakonomics speech was another highlight of the season for me.

I thought a Fran Lebowitz reference was kinda stretching who a random inmate would name drop, and we love her for her lectures, not her writing for 40 years ago!

rippleintime17 · June 15, 2015

I thought this season was a fun watch, overall. It felt more anecdotal but with such a large cast of interesting characters, I like that. There's always new things to learn about these ladies. I always want to learn more about the Maritza/Flaca/Blanca/Ruiz group, so I'm glad we had a chance. How about Maritza having a baby that she didn't realize she was pregnant with until seven months in?

I wish we had more closure with Nicky and Sophia. Hopefully they will be back next season in some way. I'm not sure I believe that Nicky is still alive.

I will ship Poussey and Soso so hard next season! Glad for both of them that they found each other.

I'm probably in the minority but I like Caputo. He can be an idiot but his heart usually is in the right place. I'll tell ya what I can do without, though!

Pallida · June 15, 2015

Binging this show is difficult. I am at a point where I thoroughly hate the intro song, and I don’t know why Netflix doesn’t skip over it like it does for their other original programming.

I am scared that the panty business is a ploy to ensure that Piper stays front and center for many more seasons – far beyond the time she stated she has left. I am thoroughly exhausted by that delusional, bougie bitch. She is the localized personification of the prison corporation.

All of her “employees” bear the risk of getting caught. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m under the impression that the panties are contraband. Those employees who work in the sweatshop are even more at risk due to the potential accusation of theft of materials. (Piper can justify the repurposing stuff all she wants, but rhetoric won’t keep you out of the shu or extended sentences.) But the profits? Those are centralized in Piper’s hands. And when she finally agrees to give them a wage, she exploits these women’s lack of awareness, offering $8/pair when they’re being sold for $70 plus. She thinks she’s a bad bitch for running this operation? She’s just another corporate figurehead.

I don’t want to suggest that the writing of Piper is poor or inconsistent; rather, it just nauseates me. I don’t want her to win anymore, and I don’t want the “poor me, I’m a victim” scene when she doesn’t win.

I agree with what’s stated above: I hope next season focuses on Sophia and Gloria. I appreciate the parallels between the two of them, and how minor experiences keep putting them at odds. I wonder if they’re going to approach the new situation as an “oldtimers vs. newcomers” thing and have race relations no longer be the divider.

rippleintime17, I also like Caputo. He wants to do right by people, and he is actively interested in rehabilitation and justice. Whether or not he understands how to get there could be debated, but throughout this season, we heard comments about how well Litchfield ran compared to other prisons, and I'm sure that's because of Caputo's guidance.

CherithCutestory · June 15, 2015

I was always a huge Piper defender so this season was obviously a blow for me. Fuck Piper. That's all. She turned into Alex. And everything I hated about Alex goes for Piper.

But I wll say that it is incorrect that she fired Flaca for wanting to be paid. That isn't what happened. As soon as paymnet was brought up Piper was willing but she had no clue how to do it. It isn't like she has cash on hand in prison. And you can't set up official bank accounts for a bunch of random prisoners. That's why Red had to teach her about untracable accounts and using cell phones to transfer. She was never unwilling to pay anyone. She didn't know how. As soon as she was taught by Red she gave them money. At considerable personal risk to herself. And that's what Alex objected to. Because her scheme for getting the girls money meant she was now creating a vast criminal conspiracy with money laundering. If Alex had her way they wouldn't get paid at all (not because she didn't want to but doing so was a much bigger crime). She just fired Flaca for being an instigator and talking over her when it was brought up. And she did then rehire her.

It is inaccurate to say she was ever pissed off or angry about having to spread the money. She not only did so willingly but paid Red 7% of the profits to teach her how. Being intitially unable is not the same as being unwilling.

Otherwise she was an asshole this season.

I HATED the Caputo storyline. I don't watch OITNB because I lack stories about white men sick of the corporate grind.

Edited June 15, 2015 by CherithCutestory

Cherpumple · June 15, 2015

I think I enjoyed this season as much as the first 2, but it will take a re-watch to know for sure. I agree that this was my least favorite version of Piper, and the only way I can describe it is that she didn't realize that she is no longer the star of the show. She kept strutting around talking about what a badass she was and how no one should mess with her, but none of the other inmates seemed to even think about her except during their panty transactions. No one paid her enough attention to "mess with her". It was kind of pathetic.

Between Bennett's abrupt departure, the dead baby fake out, and the raid on Cesar's apartment, the whole Daya/Bennett/baby storyline was an emotional roller coaster for me, and I don't know how to feel yet. I'm not surprised that Bennett left, but I am a little surprised that he didn't even send Daya a letter explaining, apologizing, or giving excuses. As far as we know, he didn't even officially resign from his job. Stupid and cowardly he may be, but that seemed a little out of character, and definitely anti-climactic for me. And at this point, I don't believe that he ratted on Cesar. If he did it for revenge or to get his child away from him, why wait so long? Why not do it before the child is born, to eliminate the chance of him ever getting custody of the baby, rather than risking the baby's safety by living in that house (even for a short time) and then being caught up in a raid and becoming a ward of the state?

But speaking of, thank god that Cesar was finally arrested! I feel bad for the fate of those kids, but it's about time his ass was hauled off to jail. And on a shallow note, that actor is hot.

Favorite things of season 3:

- The TIme Hump Chronicles, and all the associated silliness- fan fiction, teasing the guard, the ridiculous plot (a man made out of vaseline?!?) That arc provided some much needed levity amidst some uncomfortable and dark elements.

- Cool flashbacks for Flaca, Norma, and Leanne, which were the most interesting and surprising. I don't know how far in advance they create the backstories, but Leanne's in particular could explain her incessant need for social hierarchy, and her very black and white attitude towards being in or out of a group (blindly following Tucky in season 1, then trying to fill the power vacuum she left behind in season 2, and actively shunning Tucky from the group, then following Norma and shunning Soso).

- The background story of Judy King.

- Black Cindy and her conversion.

- More Cal, but no Larry or Polly.

- Cameos by inmate Pornstache and younger Miss Rosa

- Seeing the crying lady not crying for a change

- So many quotable quotes

Least favorite things

- The loss of Nicky. Her absence really left a hole on the group's dynamics.

- The execution of Piper's storyline and her callousness towards Alex.

- Piper and Stella. I just didn't buy it.

- Michael turning into a junior thug. It was a decent storyline, I just hate sassy teenagers.

- Healy/Red. The thought of those two just grossed me out.

Chaos Theory · June 15, 2015

I am not sure if I am in the minority or not but Piper and Alex are the best part of the show for me. Piper scenes never bore or disappoint. If Piper ever does go it will not be enough to ruin the show for me but it will be far less interesting and acclaim worthy for me.

placate · June 15, 2015

Sorry, I binge watched this shit. Who was that little fat blond boy who got vomitted on a Jesus hobo? How does this prove anything? Shouldn't Alex be in protective service? Piper has been an ass all season but she needs to be caught in a racketeering scheme so she can be a main character later.

Captain Asshat · June 15, 2015

Cindy's conversion was so well acted and sincere. I was actually shocked. Very compelling, even to a raging atheist like myself.

It was extremely well acted and sincere. I loved that, what started as a quest for better food turned into a spiritual journey. I really wish we'd seen more of it. Also? Unfortunately, the "payoff" was wrong. The "yes" should not have been, "Yes! Mazel Tov! You're Jewish." The "yes" should have been "Yes, you may now start your journey toward conversion." Only after that "yes," will a rabbi work with and study with a potential convert. I guess this is what happens with 13-episode seasons -- stuff gets rushed. I guess it's OK for Daya to be pregnant for three seasons, but conversion to Judaism gets to happen in a few weeks.

Also, I totally agree there's going to be a kitchen dinner club showdown next season, during which the media will be invited it and Red will be "shown" to be in a menial role and not the mastermind of the thing. This will not end well.

EllisCarver · June 15, 2015

Season Grade: B-. A certain step down from the 1st two seasons.

Pros:

- The supporting cast is still for the most part tremendous and the biggest reason I'll keep coming back to OITNB. Black Cindy, Soso, Flaca, Leanne, and 'Tucky were excellent in their increased screen time

- The pair ups this season worked for the most part, like Boo/Tucky, Leanne/Norma, Poussey/Soso, Sophia/Gloria, and even Red/Healy.

- The guard and employee rotation (not counting the part-timers) is PERFECT as is. No need to bring back Bennett or Pornstache. I hope Berdie returns.

- The best of the mini-arcs was Black Cindy's conversion to Judaism. It started out as just a (funny) running joke, but the writers did a great job weaving that into something special for a character that I mostly thought of as comic fodder for the 1st two seasons.

- I could never get enough of hearing details from Suzanne's erotica.

- Morello's arc was amusing for the most part.

- More Soso everything. I thought Poussey/Soso was going to be an item, but I'm guessing they're holding onto that one for next season.

- Favorite episodes of the bunch were the Mothers Day opener and the 4th episode, which involved the Boo flashback.

Cons:

- With the exception of the dirty panty stump speech, my goodness was Piper insufferable this season. She reminds me of Brenda from Six Feet Under; her problems always operate the same way and because of the same reason: she's a terrible person. She gets an idea, she pats herself on the back, someone throws a kink in the mix, she panics, she does something really shitty, someone calls her awful, she realizes she is, she makes a promise to adapt/change, she gets an idea. Rinse and repeat.

- Piper/Alex has run its course. Adding Stella to the mix made it more unbearable. Permanently end it please.

- The show suffered from the lack of a real antagonist inside the prison like a 'Tucky Season 1 or Vee this season. It's bloody prison. Where are the evil people?

- The new characters just didn't add much to the mix. Stella's hot, but her character was a vacuous space and I don't think that actress is any good. Her idea of emotion for anything was just raising an eyebrow. Lori Petty was very off-putting. None of the new guards (aside from Berdie) added productivity or comedy to the mix. Even (beloved!) Mike Birbiglia wasn't that effective because his arc was all too predictable (and they certainly weren't going to turn him to a full-out baddie). The lack of interesting freshmen characters was really apparent considering the great characters we lost (Vee, Rosa, and Nicky). Weeds (same showrunner) had the same problem.

- Daya should've probably had the baby earlier in the season. Stretching that drama out for a full season was completely unnecessary and it felt like Aleida and Daya were completely wasted.

- The flashbacks have run their course for the most part. I don't think there was a single memorable one beside Flaca and perhaps Boo.

- Having "redshirts" attack Sophia instead of characters we know really dulled the effectiveness of the hate-crime. Would it be really unbelievable for Gloria to order a hit on Sophia? She's a aggrieved mom in prison; I'd get it.

I'm going to hold off criticizing the end of the Boo/Penn/Rapist guard since they hinted that Marisol would need to be saved the next season. But a boo-boo on the forehead of the rapist guard can't possibly be a satisfying conclusion to the story. In prison? Nah.

pennben · June 15, 2015

I feel like maybe they are seeding the max security facility with characters we know (Miss Claudia (please!)/Nikki/Stella?) so that maybe we are going to start getting little glimpses there in the future.

jonesingjay · June 15, 2015

I didn't like Piper's panty business, didn't see the point of it and her involvement with the younger inmate fell flat for me.

One of the things that I enjoyed the most were Big Boo and Pennsatucky's friendship. Those two played off each other well. Although, could've done without the prison guard stuff.

I would've loved to have seen Poussey and Soso's friendship to begin earlier and develop over the course of the season, but I understand how that Soso's depression and feelings needed to be paced.

Overall I enjoy this show more when it's truly an ensemble and not focused on Piper or Piper's relationship with Alex.

Just one more thing, Piper's panty speech was so corny. If that was the point of the scene they nailed it.

Sorry, I binge watched this shit. Who was that little fat blond boy who got vomitted on a Jesus hobo?

Healy. After praying to Jesus to help his mother.

Edited June 15, 2015 by jonesingjay

rue721 · June 15, 2015

In some ways it ended up feeling darker to me because there wasn't a single Big Bad who could be killed off in the end, just the relentless misery and frustration of prison wearing people down.

I think the Big Bad this season was bureaucracy/corporatization.

Leanne "corporatized" Norma's magic and ruined it. MCC "corporatized" the prison and corrupted Caputo. The "corporatization" of Suzanne's erotica (when it took off and got a cult following) ruined it for her. Piper literally started a corporation and it corrupted her, too. Etc.

The actress who.plays black Cindy? Killed that scene with the rabbi. I think I was happiest for her out of them all. Then probably Soso for finding a home with the black girls.

I was really happy for Cindy and Soso that they "found their people." I wouldn't have predicted either, but once I heard Cindy's argument for why she should be allowed to start the conversion process, and once I saw Poussey take Soso's hand and for Tastee to basically give the nod to allow Soso to join the black girls' clique, both made perfect sense. Looking forward to how that all goes next season.

Sophia's story this season seemed like it was all about how the other women still considered her an outsider when push came to shove, though. So I'm nervous that that was foreshadowing for how Cindy's conversion and Soso joining the black girls' clique is going to go long-term.

On the other hand, it's way more common for inmates to find Buddhism or Islam while incarcerated, isn't it? So I'm not sure why they felt a need to showcase Judaism in particular. I get it about the kosher meals, and I took the point about how the meals led into the process, but still. They had an opportunity with the Qu'ran being the only book to survive the library purge and they chose not to go there, except for Piper saying it was more interesting than she expected.

I didn't think it was a problem that Cindy wanted to convert to Judaism instead of Islam or Buddhism. I'm wondering why the show decided to have that really short, otherwise random flashback to show that Watson is Muslim, though. Maybe that'll be part of a storyline next season.

Re: Boo it is hardly one dimensional. She is intelligent and conniving. Last season she sided with Vee and crew because they offered her more then Red did. This season she was the one coming up with all the ideas for selling the heroin while Nicky was sandbagging it at every turn.

IA -- Boo is pretty mercurial and shrewd. She can be a real asshole. What humanizes her imo is that she genuinely likes women -- I don't mean just sexually, I mean that she's straight up NOT a misogynist. Which is different from a LOT of the characters on the show (both men and women). I mean, Boo is not the one tattooing "Trust No Bitch" on her arm or anyone else's, she's not the one teaching her little daughter to say "bitches be like that," she's not the one advising her son to find an insecure girl to use for sex practice, she's not the one raping a woman (let alone while telling the woman it's because she owes her or because that's love, ffs!), and she's not going to doing all the weird, hateful, entitled shit that Healy does. I like that she's not effeminate, but that that doesn't make her not a woman and that that doesn't mean she has a problem with women.

Also, the look on her face when she saw that Martiza was the new girl on van duty would have redeemed her for me anyway. I don't know what she's going to do, but I don't think she's going to let Martiza just twist in the wind.

All of her “employees” bear the risk of getting caught. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m under the impression that the panties are contraband. Those employees who work in the sweatshop are even more at risk due to the potential accusation of theft of materials. (Piper can justify the repurposing stuff all she wants, but rhetoric won’t keep you out of the shu or extended sentences.) But the profits? Those are centralized in Piper’s hands. And when she finally agrees to give them a wage, she exploits these women’s lack of awareness, offering $8/pair when they’re being sold for $70 plus. She thinks she’s a bad bitch for running this operation? She’s just another corporate figurehead.

I agree that Piper is the personification of the inmate-version of the prison privatization. She even only cares about what's happening in the next 6-12 mo because that's when she's planning to get out, just like the Corporate Overlords. But I don't think she's just a figurehead.

She's the one who has to make sure the panty pipeline keeps running, and that does seem like a lot of work. Plus, the money from the panty sales isn't ALL profit, there's also overhead to figure. She's got Red as a consultant for 8%, she's cutting in her brother and sister-in-law, too, she's got to invest in the equipment to get the panties where they need to be (which apparently includes not only a relatively nice website, but even some expensive packaging now!), etc. Plus, she hasn't been very cautious about having layers of management to protect her from the employees' wrath or for being the fall guy if something bad goes wrong, so she's running a fair amount of risk herself.

I mean, she was sort of using Stella as her #2, but that ended pretty catastrophically. And now it's just her and the employees. Maybe she'll get someone to run interference once she inevitably starts trying to recruit some of the new arrivals into the business. Too bad she didn't hear about stuff like the fake entrance exam for the sweatshop jobs, she could have used some of those same tactics to keep the heat off herself. LOL.

Piper's not especially likeable or interesting imo, but I enjoy business storylines as a general rule, so I enjoyed hers. It's like watching a really silly, light version of the first season of the Wire.

Sorry, I binge watched this shit. Who was that little fat blond boy who got vomitted on a Jesus hobo? How does this prove anything? Shouldn't Alex be in protective service? Piper has been an ass all season but she needs to be caught in a racketeering scheme so she can be a main character later.

That little boy was Healy. There was a flashback earlier in the season that showed his mother having a psychotic break or something (she was painting the walls with blood, iIrc?). Then in this flashback, he was at the church yelling for the priest because his mother was sick again. I think that him mistaking some random drunk/sick guy for Jesus and the priest not coming to help him is probably going to dovetail with Cindy's conversion argument about how you have to solve your own problems, God's not going to do it for you, and nobody has the answers (no Hell, maybe no Heaven, etc).

I think Healy genuinely does want to help people. I think he genuinely does want to be good at his job and to be a good husband and all of that. But he's *terrible* at it and he does a lot of damage because of that. Same thing with him being so bigoted. I think that in Healy's ideal world, he wouldn't be a bigot. But he still is one. He's a lost cause imo, despite himself.

Healy's one of those people who is "his own worst enemy," imo. I don't like him and would have no desire to spend any time with him irl, but I find him interesting and enjoy watching him. And I'm shipping him and Red. Red would be such a gigantic asset to him (because she's so much smarter and more sophisticated than he is), and for Red, he'd be a really big step up from her ex. Also, I don't think that Healy would actually be a bad husband to her. He's volatile and has a super fragile ego, but she'd know how to handle that. And in the end, he actually is a pretty loyal person (he stuck by Caputo when the privatization was going on and things were going to shit, and he stuck by his wife (and her mother) even when she said she wanted to be free of him) -- and Red doesn't have a whole lot of loyal people in her life.

But I guess I'm just a romantic, because I'm shipping Suzanne and her fan (though imo that is NOT going to end well), and I'm shipping Poussey and Soso, too.

mattie0808 · June 16, 2015

Hmm...not well formed thoughts before I dive into the episode threads.

-- FUCK. PIPER.

-- Damn, Nicky. Damn.

-- ROSA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- I'm so very, very glad that Soso is still around.

-- Taystee, you're definitely the mom. :)

-- Damn, Alex. Damn.

-- I feel bad for Daya (and her baby, obviously) all the way around. God her mother is just an evil, awful human being.

-- Sophia...? :(

-- I am happy to pray to Norma or whatever TV gods exist with extreme gratitude that Red refused to go there with Healy. PLEASE LET THAT STAY THE CASE.

-- Chang and Norma kicked some serious backstory ass.

-- Yay for Black Cindy coming to something real.

-- Lolololololol forever at Suzanne's story taking over the prison.

-- Don't miss you Bennet! Was surprised we saw Pornstache at all.

-- Aussie chick...damn it sucks to be you.

-- Dear GOD, poor Christopher. Holy crap is Morello completely insane.

-- Yay for the Les Miz singing, REAL guards.

-- I hope Boo and 'Tucky come up with something for that rapist driver. Damn, that sucks.

-- FUCK. PIPER.

nobody30 · June 16, 2015

I have to say Season 3 rather disappointed me and left me kind of unsatisfied after the last episode.

First of all let me say that I really enjoyed getting to know the story of all of the characters a little more, I generally love the flashbacks, because you start to unterstand where the characters came from and are able to care about them much more. But towards the end of the season it started getting tired, because there was no structure anymore, just bits and pieces of half storylines with just too much flahbacks.

My main concern ist that there is no main storyline anymore, and because of that it's getting exhausting and less exciting to watch. There is no focus, nothing to hold on to anymore, we are jumping from one character and small storyline to another, and it goes on and on in an endless cycle.

The premise of the show was to tell the story of a middle-/ upperclass women (Piper) in federal prison, how prison is a world of it's own and how prison changes you (and telling the story of other characters in that process too). If they want to leave that storyline, which I'm totally ok with, then they should finish it for Christs's sake and start another one, otherwise it's getting frustrating. Because at the moment it's just getting unrealistic and tired with Piper. I mean she has just months of her sentence left and starts some kind of organized crime from inside the prison, for what, money? She has a higher education and wealthy family background! She's not a mini Walter White, they even had that reference in a funny way, that story is just crap. It would be better if they let her out of prison and tell the story how hard it is to get back to your normal life afterwards, but please stopt that stupid plot!

The Alex cliffhanger was upsetting too, not the cliffhanger itself, but how it was done, no suspense at all (they could have shown her lying on the floor stabbed or whatever, I don't know).

I hope they get the show back on track in S4, character development and knowing the past of those characters is nice, but you need a storyline too (and less characters to be honest).

And a personal wish as a German native speaker: Please stop using foreign languages in the show if the actors can not pronounce a single word of that language. The Amish storyline was torture! I know that Pennsylvania German is kind of different in pronounciation, but if a native speaker doesn't understand a single word (literally) without reading the English subtitles at the same time, then you know it's awkward.

Chaos Theory · June 16, 2015

I actually thought the Pantie thing was incredibly clever and something that would be done inside a prison. It was actually the food thing that annoys me. Then again I never liked Black Ciindy and the group pretending to be Jewish to get better food whine the others got substandard food annoid me.

We all have favorite characters; mine happens to be Piper and never understood why people don't like her but then to each is own. Like I said I don't like Black Cindy but I get why people do. I also kinda like the idea of her converting for real.

ottoDbusdriver · June 16, 2015

Then again I never liked Black Ciindy and the group pretending to be Jewish to get better food whine the others got substandard food annoid me.

I thought it was funny that the only inmate that ended up passing the Rabbi's inquiry to keep getting the Kosher meal was the Catholic nun.

KatWay · June 16, 2015

I've always liked Piper, but this season I found her insufferable. She comes from a privilege that the other inmates can't even dream of, so her gloating of how smart and resourceful she is just bugged. Also, congrats Piper, you had all the opportunities in the world open to you and you ended up selling stinky panties out of prison. You're so badass and awesome. Not.

I also thought Taylor Schilling's acting got worse. She seemed cartoonish. That panty monologue was supposed to be corny, but I just found it cringeworthy and it went on forever.

I like Alex more than Piper now. Never thought that would happen.

ZaldamoWilder · June 16, 2015

My unpopular opinion is that I didn't muss Nicky one bit.

I enjoyed the season. It was weird in a lot of ways but completely watchable for me.

The actress who.plays black Cindy? Killed that scene with the rabbi. I think I was happiest for her out of them all. Then probably Soso for finding a home with the black girls.

Alaida is a miserable hosebeast and I hate her most out of everyone this season.

My other unpopular opinion is that I like Bennett/Daya and was sad to see him go. But it made sense for the story so I can't complain too much.

I like that Lolly ended up being a garden variety conspiracy theorist/nutjob instead of an assassin. Don't care about Alex but I did feel for her. Piper's an asshole.

I also enjoyed Flacca's back story. She strikes me as a very bright girl, an unconventional thinker. Wasted potential there and heartbreaking that she's losing her mom.

I still hate Healy. I felt a smidge of sympathy for him when his wife wouldn't even show him the courtesy of fake laughing at his joke. Beyond that, he can bugger off. He and red have no chemistry IMO so I hope that doesn't happen next season.

Poor Sophia.

Overall, good season for me.

All this here.

I meant the cut Caputo and O'Neill found earlier, when Caputo saw the chicken. They found Chang's tangerines there, too, IIRC.

The other one, where everyone ran through to the lake, I do think had to do with the guards being AWOL, and the workers being clueless.

They didn't spot that hole because Chang used one of those weed looking tall plants to camouflage it.

I think I enjoyed this season as much as the first 2, but it will take a re-watch to know for sure. I agree that this was my least favorite version of Piper, and the only way I can describe it is that she didn't realize that she is no longer the star of the show. She kept strutting around talking about what a badass she was and how no one should mess with her, but none of the other inmates seemed to even think about her except during their panty transactions. No one paid her enough attention to "mess with her". It was kind of pathetic.

Between Bennett's abrupt departure, the dead baby fake out, and the raid on Cesar's apartment, the whole Daya/Bennett/baby storyline was an emotional roller coaster for me, and I don't know how to feel yet. I'm not surprised that Bennett left, but I am a little surprised that he didn't even send Daya a letter explaining, apologizing, or giving excuses. As far as we know, he didn't even officially resign from his job. Stupid and cowardly he may be, but that seemed a little out of character, and definitely anti-climactic for me. And at this point, I don't believe that he ratted on Cesar. If he did it for revenge or to get his child away from him, why wait so long? Why not do it before the child is born, to eliminate the chance of him ever getting custody of the baby, rather than risking the baby's safety by living in that house (even for a short time) and then being caught up in a raid and becoming a ward of the state?

But speaking of, thank god that Cesar was finally arrested! I feel bad for the fate of those kids, but it's about time his ass was hauled off to jail. And on a shallow note, that actor is hot.

Favorite things of season 3:

- The TIme Hump Chronicles, and all the associated silliness- fan fiction, teasing the guard, the ridiculous plot (a man made out of vaseline?!?) That arc provided some much needed levity amidst some uncomfortable and dark elements.

- Cool flashbacks for Flaca, Norma, and Leanne, which were the most interesting and surprising. I don't know how far in advance they create the backstories, but Leanne's in particular could explain her incessant need for social hierarchy, and her very black and white attitude towards being in or out of a group (blindly following Tucky in season 1, then trying to fill the power vacuum she left behind in season 2, and actively shunning Tucky from the group, then following Norma and shunning Soso).

- The background story of Judy King.

- Black Cindy and her conversion.

- More Cal, but no Larry or Polly.

- Cameos by inmate Pornstache and younger Miss Rosa

- Seeing the crying lady not crying for a change

- So many quotable quotes

Least favorite things

- The loss of Nicky. Her absence really left a hole on the group's dynamics.

- The execution of Piper's storyline and her callousness towards Alex.

- Piper and Stella. I just didn't buy it.

- Michael turning into a junior thug. It was a decent storyline, I just hate sassy teenagers.

- Healy/Red. The thought of those two just grossed me out.

and then all of this. about the bolded? my family, including without my knowledge and consent, my 15 year old daughter binged watched this season on friday/saturday. I woke up to this kid talking about mom OITNB was out on early release yesterday and it's awesome! (she goes to school away from home). We all have several questions, the most consistent of which is what the hell happened to Bennett? Because I guess it does actually track from his flashback to have a little bit of punkassery in his personality BUT everything about the development of their relationship has been about their genuine feelings and his, are, if anything, overly committed in times where he should actually be like yeah fuck it I'm out. The second most consistent question in our household is this dude has a day job right? So presumably he goes home at night, why the hell can't he do what single mothers since time immemorial have done and leave the baby with an abuela for hire during the day then be a dad at night? Somebody tell me if I missed this explanation in one of these seasons. I binged watched also so it could've gotten by me.

Boo and Penn made a winning duo for me. I wasn't sure where she was going at first but when Boo pushed Penn into the realization that she was raped I thought, yes girl! get here there so we can hurry up and figure out what to do with this bastard. More naivete? I really did think he was a nice guy at first, greaseball hair notwithstanding.

I didn't have a single problem with what Piper was doing because, in my opinion, she just is not selling it. Somebody alluded to it above but all this "that's right, you better let em know, I'm not to be fucked with" when all her fellow inmates are paying her nothing but dust to begin with is hilarious. Very reminiscent of Richard Pryor in some movie doing the "that's right, we bad, we bad" pimp walk down the street to basically a crowd of zero. Lol! I also had not a single problem with the enterprise, as it would've been exploited by anyone else who a. had thought of it first and b. had the help at their disposal to properly execute. If anything it displays her character's "progressive" thinking, if you will. She was about relationships and making friends in season 1 and 2 and we see that really hasn't made a difference in her stay one way or the other. This kingpin thing gets her a modicum of respect, which I imagine in an environment like that is priceless because let's face $70 a pair minus $8 then subtract 8% from the aggregate, carry the one, is not doing shit for her slush fund 18 months hence. I also can't muster up any tears for the women as it's voluntary, they could've told her to, literally, go kick rocks.

I might have missed this in earlier seasons also but why do we call Black Cindy black Cindy? Is there a white Cindy?

Nicky was wronged as fuck but it didn't affect my enjoyment.

The look on Flaca's face when she realized she started selling "not drugs" for a better life than to end up a sweatshop seamstress, only to become a sweatshop seamstress - LOVE.

I loved the call out to Walter White. Now him, I miss.

Healy and Red. Sun glare. Please don't do this producers, it's going to burn my cornea.

When Caputo goes to get meth-teeth from the bus station my heart sank for real. The fact that he fully expected her to still be there and that she was, hours later burnt me up. You ain't got to home but shit if you went to the trouble of escaping, you GOT to get the hell up outta here.

I think my favorite moment, weirdly so, might've been Caputo seeing the chicken.

Cindy and the conversion made me feel like it works that way across the board. I converted to Catholicism 6 years ago. Had the door to the cathedral (and catechism) actually slammed in my face twice. The third time I called. Lol. I was giggling that the blond inmate (Ginsburg?) was shading the hell out of Rabbi cousin Paul and that he still was squirmy about it 20 damn years later.

Overall for me? Good stuff.

JellyFishQueen · June 16, 2015

So I just had a quick question about Cindy conversion to Judaism, does anyone know what branch she will follow? Reform? Orthodox? Conservative maybe?

admiralrodcocker · June 17, 2015

I liked this season, but I didn't love it. Nothing really upset me, it just felt meh, though it did have moments where it shined.

I absolutely loved Pennsatucky and Boo. Two characters I previously hated and now I adore them together. I cried when they hugged after Penn told Boo she was raped. I have never felt more disturbed than when I saw the guard raping Doggett. Give Taryn an Emmy for her dead-eyes. I'm also glad they decided not to use the broomstick on him, coming to the conclusion that it wouldn't actually make them feel any better for doing the same to him. But OMG, Poor Ramos. You in danger girl.

Healy & Red? Why show? UGH. Red is not even a fave of mine, but no one should be saddled with that misogynistic MRA. I hope Rogers is back next season. I really liked the actress and she called Healy on his shit.

Daya, Aleida, Bennett, and Mama-stache: I loathe Aleida. And more insight into her back story has never made her sympathetic (and her transphobia really disgusted me). Even though she was looking for money from mama-stache, the baby would have been better off with her, and she agreed to take her. Daya is an idiot, and selfish for not wanting to give her up knowing damn well that she'd end up with Caesar who threatens to shoot children if they don't eat their french fries (!) Don't care that Bennett is gone. He's always been boring and dumb. There really was no way out for him but to run. Matt McGory is better on HTGAWM.

Oh Gloria. She was a favorite of mine last season, and now she has dropped so many points, but sort of redeemed herself at the end there. Poor Sophia. This was not what I was hoping for when I wanted her to get more focus. But she's right: people are OK with you as an "other" until you step out of line, then they show their true colors. People suck, and these new guards are the worst.

Nicky broke my heart. I thought for sure she might make an appearance, as a sort of back for the finale, but she never did :( Speaking of which, Morello made me tear up when she saw Nicky getting carted off. Morello felt really adrift this season without the van and Nicky.

Soso - Yeah she's annoying but I felt sorry for her, and I thought she really was dead for a moment there in the library. Her arc also made me hate Leanne even more than I did before. Go Poussey for standing up to that meth head at the end there and yay for the black girls for adopting her in. At least for now. I grew tired of Norma's girls and their cult.

Piper was probably the biggest WTF this season. I understand changing in prison to "a darker me," but her new personality seems tacked on. She seems less like a person who was shaped by the harsh realities of prison and more like a sociopath body-snatched her in her sleep. Piper has always been annoying, but she never really bothered me and I have defended her on occasion, but season 3 Piper was god awful and a wannabe badass. The very definition of trying too hard.

New inmates! Excited for next season. I'm glad Lori Petty was around. She'll always make me think of Free Willy and my childhood. :)

Edited June 17, 2015 by BinkyMimo88

possibilities · June 17, 2015

This is a revised version of a post I had in an episode thread til someone told me she thought it was in the wrong place....

I totally get that neither Doggett nor Boo trusts the admin and they wanted to handle the rapist guard on their own. But at the same time, Doggett has one of the stronger cases to prove rape by Donut Guard: he didn't use a condom (so if she'd gone right away to report, there'd be plenty of dna), she has bruises on her wrists. A rape kit would show what happened; and the bruises combined with him being a guard would support her assertion that he used force. At no time do either one of them even seem to consider reporting the incident.

Furthermore, she doesn't realize this, but the guy is already in trouble for missing count, so Caputo might even be more inclined than usual to want to take action, and he can also use it with MCC to show the danger of unprofessional guards. She might get the result she wanted if she had reported it and gone the "official" route. But the sad thing is that the place is so fubar (and her entire life experience is likewise) that even with all that being so, it doesn't even occur to her to make a report.

Doggett at first she didn't even have enough self-esteem to articulate the nature of the violation, but even after that, the lack of even a discussion of making a complaint reinforced how much she doesn't trust her lawyer or Caputo or Healy or anyone-- and who could blame her? I thought this story was excellent for showing why women don't seek justice even when it looks to an outsider like they could.

I also wonder if she will wind up pregnant, and why she didn't seem to even be worried about that possibility. Or maybe an STD? They haven't really dealt with STDs as another way that rape affects the women inside. If both Doggett and the next van driver suddenly have the same one...? I also wonder how Healey would respond to reports of a guard raping an inmate(s). Would he be outraged, or see it as another case of the women being to blame?

Edited June 17, 2015 by possibilities

Cherpumple · June 17, 2015

I'm also worried for the women because the guard is so volatile. We've seen him go from easygoing to violent in the blink of an eye multiple times, and I worry that any more attempts at vigilante justice, especially ones that involve taking him to a quiet, unguarded room in the prison to punish him, could result in even worse violence. I really hope they tell Caputo before it's too late, but I can't see how it will play out. I don't think I can stand another prison pregnancy storyline so soon after the insufferably boring one we just sat through, an STD would be difficult to trace to the source, unless they test the women as part of the initial medical evaluation and can prove that they were disease-free upon entering the prison (even that wouldn't be airtight in tracing the source), the DNA evidence is probably long gone (unless it's preserved on Doggett's clothing), and I certainly don't want them to set up a Daya-style trap, as it would endanger whatever woman was used as bait. I'm afraid this is going to get worse before it gets better.

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