Season 17 Live Feed Discussion: Watch People Sleep All Day!

[call me ishmael]

There's nothing physical about part 3. It's just guessing how the jury answered questions.Steve already won part 2. Steve and Vanessa will face off in part 3 live on Wednesday.

Thanks. That is what i get for hoping Liz would win this one (as opposed to all the times i wanted her to lose and she won).

[burgerbitz]

I respect Dan's or Derrick's game more than Vanessa's.  They at least were subtle in their manipulation, and aggressive in strategic moments (Dan, moreso).  Vanessa was like a constant jackhammer of aggressive manipulation.  There is just an air of desperation to her game that turns me off.  

Not to mention the crocodile tears she turned on when she needed them. That was another form of manipulation. She started that when she was first in the house, saying she was missing Mel & wasn't the type person to be aggressive towards others. Then she used the tears every time she was caught screwing someone over. 

[LoveLeigh]

I can't stand Steve's sarcasm about Vanessa when he is in the DR. He is sarcastic and cruel. He says things like "go ahead and cry Vanessa" and ridicules her and the expression on his face is hateful. Plus, I think Ian already won so a Steve win is sort of redundant. But at least Ian was nice. 

Edited September 19, 2015 by DakotaLavender

[Coco88]

Vanessa kind of reminds me of Maggie from S6. Both are/were so fake and phony "nice" in the DR.

I can't stand Steve but I'll take him over Vanessa. And it's not because he's a man (insert eye roll). This being said Vanessa will probably win because it's always the person I can't stand the most that wins.

[LoveLeigh]

This being said Vanessa will probably win because it's always the person I can't stand the most that wins.

Yes! And one thing is certain for me: I am always angry on finale night. 

[Cutty]

I respect Dan's or Derrick's game more than Vanessa's.  They at least were subtle in their manipulation, and aggressive in strategic moments (Dan, moreso).  Vanessa was like a constant jackhammer of aggressive manipulation.  There is just an air of desperation to her game that turns me off.

 

Dan also owned his game. He didn't portray himself as anything other than someone who was trying to win a bunch of money on a TV gameshow. Vanessa's moral righteousness is my biggest problem with her. This game involves lying and manipulation... there's no reason to pretend you are somehow above it, especially when you are as skilled at it as she is. 

 

If Steve wins part 3 HOH, boots Vanessa and wins agains Liz, he absolutely "deserves" it, whatever that even means. But I'm of the opinion that anyone who wins the game, regardless of how they got there, "deserves" it. I loathe him, but Dr. will deserved it even though he purposely never won a comp. Ian deserved it, even though I thought Dan played one hell of a game, while I thought Ian was just kind of there for half the season. Rachel deserved it, even though she had a HUGE helping hand by the "duo" twist being inexplicably brought back into the game at final six, and her being able to save both her AND Jordan from eviction.

 

Couldn't agree more. There are bad winners but there is no "deserve". The jury is under no obligation to vote for the "best strategic player" or "person who won the most comps", which is why I find the term "bitter jury" so nonsensical. If we're just giving it to whoever played the best based on this predetermined criteria, then there's really no point in having a jury. There are many facets to this game. If someone in the jury hates you so badly that they won't vote for you then that's a poor reflection on your gameplay. Quite honestly, if the jury is "bitter" against Vanessa, it's because she made a million deals with everyone and broke them. That was HER gameplay.

[TexasChic]

I think the person who really deserves to win is JohnnyMac because he's the only one who got voted out and then won his way back in...

Just kidding.

I think the final three have all played hard in their own way and all deserve to win. Whatever the outcome, I believe the final vote will be a close one, and I look forward to seeing it.

[Nashville]

So, one highlight from Austin's interview with Jeff on CBS:

 

 

So, from all his post-eviction interviews I gather that: on the one hand, he was going to win this game yet, on the other hand, he was planning to advocate for Vanessa when he was in the jury house but for her awful betrayal, and then, on the third hand, that's the one we don't talk about, all he cared about was protecting Liz and sitting next to her when she beat him in the Final 2.  He has also said he was also planning on taking Vanessa to the finals with him, so she could lose to him.

 

He's got all of these alternate endings playing out in his mind other than the one in this dimension....he lost, and went out barefoot, bitter and befuddled.

 

Yes he did - JUST THE WAY I WANTED HIM TO!!!  :D   

Happy happy joy joy.

Don't mind me - I'm just gonna sit over here in the corner and just be happy.

 

Yea, John's interviews are hilarious. He has a highly inflated opinion of what he did in the game.

 

Name a F4 player who doesn't.  ;>

 

The difference is the entire point of the game is to not be evicted. Once you have been evicted, I'm not voting for you.

 

Have to totally disagree.  I think marie totally hit the nail on the head:

 

The entire point of the game is to get to the end and have people vote for you to win.

 

Bingo.  TPTB set down the rules and conditions of the game, and from the beginning those rules included an eviction re-entry option for one Juror - so saying the point is to NEVER get evicted is describing some game other than Big Brother.  In fact, right off the bat I can think of at least one scenario where a HG could use getting evicted and re-entering as part of their strategy.

 

I don't watch The View, but I read this past week that they made fun of one of The Miss America contestants who wore a stethoscope since she was a nurse. They claimed she took the doctor's stethoscope or something to that effect. Basically insinuating that a nurse could not and should not wear one, which infuriated all the nurses in our town. That makes me think that those women on The View must be clueless and obviously not care about what they say.

 

OT, but FYI, several major advertisers are pulling out of The View in protest.  Funny how we never heard of advertisers pulling out during Aaryn's disgusting season.

 

Not to off-track discussion - but for anyone who hadn't caught the story yet: NY Daily News link

 

I agree. I feel like Vanessa's game is like 80% aggressive, gross manipulation tactics and I just don't like that style of play, particularly if it's such a large part of someone's gameplay and if I hate their personality lol.

I don't necessarily have a problem with that style of play - if the player owns it, which has been my key problem with Vanessa. 

V has done morally ambiguous stuff in the game - which, considering the nature of the game, is a given for any HG. 

Heck, at some point it's virtually guaranteed to be a requirement.

But Lady MacV continually claims superiority of morals and/or integrity, even when what she's bashing another HG for is a mirror of her own activity. 

And she not only disavows them to other HGs - again, normal activity in the BB House - but in the DR as well.

And THAT is the part which irritates the crap outta me.

[loki567]

The good news for Vanessa with the current jury format, it really won't matter if she owns up to her game or continues the, "I was a straight shooter." The jury's mind is made up before finale night and they're unlikely to be switched in the five minutes allotted for F2 questions. The vibe I'm getting from the jury segments is most of them think she was a mastermind player and she probably wins if she can get herself to the F2. Even if she bombs the questions, it won't matter.

 

I also think production really wants a Vanessa win, giving them a female mastermind and a female winner after about four years. And they have a lot of influence with the jury in the current format.  

[JediDVguy]

If Steve wins part 3 HOH, boots Vanessa and wins agains Liz, he absolutely "deserves" it, whatever that even means. But I'm of the opinion that anyone who wins the game, regardless of how they got there, "deserves" it. I loathe him, but Dr. will deserved it even though he purposely never won a comp. Ian deserved it, even though I thought Dan played one hell of a game, while I thought Ian was just kind of there for half the season. Rachel deserved it, even though she had a HUGE helping hand by the "duo" twist being inexplicably brought back into the game at final six, and her being able to save both her AND Jordan from eviction. Dick deserved it....no, nope, that's where I draw the line. Dick won because he had his own soundtrack, and great edit, and "America" fell in love with him and basically kept him in the game. Still pisses me off after all these years.

Oh, katesus, I always find myself on your page, and I very much enjoy that page. :)

One comment, though: I know that many fans consider this the season of the strong woman, but I'd have to bestow that accolade upon either seasons five (merciless Diane, strategic Nakomis, ultimate defensive player Karen, and powerhungry Nadria vs. mental voids Drew and Cowboy, and premature evictees Jase and Scott) or season six (cult leader Maggie, competition beast Janelle, thoughtful Rachel, and motormouths Ivette and April vs. duds Kaysar and Eric, whiny James, invisible Beau, and ineffective Howie).

[Donny Ketchum]

Name a F4 player who doesn't.  ;>

Michele from BB11 comes to mind.

[TimWil]

Some former players give their opinions on this season. It's very interesting...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/big-brother-17-zach-rance-824583

[Ceeg]

I'm going to wait until post-finale interviews to decide if Vanessa has "owned" her game or not. Personally, I don't really care if she owns it or not. But, I wouldn't really use her words to other people in the house or the DR as evidence that she doesn't. Mostly because she's said before that she's not totally honest in her DRs. And I don't blame her, since production can sometimes fuck things up or change people's minds if they're doing something outside of production's desires.

 

For example, the day of John's 2nd eviction. A few hours before the eviction, Vanessa was still insisting to Steve that she had no idea who she was voting for and she might just flip a coin or decide based on their speeches at the live show. Steve freaked out and asked her if she was serious, and she was like '100% you can ask the DR I haven't told them anything, I really have no idea what I'm doing.' In that moment, there's no way I believe that she didn't already know she was evicting John. No way. Not the Vanessa I've watched. Not the Vanessa with complex Skittles charts, who thinks of every outcome of every scenario possible. Not the Vanessa who told John in her eviction speech to him her Reason for voting him out. However, I do believe that she told Steve exactly what she told the DR. I don't think Vanessa wants the DR fucking with her game.

[peachmangosteen]

Name a F4 player who doesn't.  ;>

I can't even remember a single F4 player.

 

I don't necessarily have a problem with that style of play - if the player owns it, which has been my key problem with Vanessa.

Yes, that is my problem, too. I mean I think Dan played an amazing game and I would've vote for him and he certainly aggressively used emotional manipulation. But he not only owned it, but he also didn't seem offended by others doing the same thing. Vanessa's hypocritical ways and entitlement are my biggest problems with her game.

[Starla]

I think the final three have played a good game and deserve to be there, and whoever wins deserves it. Not just this season but any season. Whether it is because they won comps at the right time, laid low when they needed to, aligned with the right people, voted to boot the right people, floated from side to side, lied to everyone, made friends with everyone, made big moves to get out the threats, or made no moves so as not to be considered a threat, it's all valid strategy if it gets you to the end. Even the jury being bitter or not is part of the game, and if someone who seemingly coasts through the season wins in the end because they didn't piss off everyone, I think they are as valid a winner as someone who bulldozed their way through and lost votes by doing it. Every season has different factors and personalities, so I think every winner will be appropriate to the dynamics at play in their season. 

[Machiabelly]

TY Starla, I agree completely. When the object is to be the last one standing, then the last one standing played the best.

[PaperTree]

Just to throw this in, sometimes the "Big Move" isn't the smart move to keep yourself in the game.

 

If Steve wins this final crapshoot and doesn't boot Vanessa, he's an idiot like Cody.  

 

Derrick:  "Cody, thanks for putting the steak and lobster in my daughter's mouth and buying me a new house..  Drop by for a hot dog any time!"

 

Cody:  "Thanks bro!!"  (pants like a puppydog)

 

 

 

It's also hard from our position up here in the helicopter watching what is going on down there in the jungle to see things as the houseguests see them from their 2-dimensional world.   It is  hard to see the forest for the trees when you're stuck in the middle of it.  

[ennui]

"Deserves" to win? I don't think anyone on this show "deserves" $500,000.  Yes, I know, that's the basis of the show, but I don't think any of them deserve anything.

 

Ok, rant over.

[mooses]

Steve annoys me. I also don't think he played a stronger game than Vanessa and Liz. But if I liked him, I'm sure I could come up with The Reason he should win.

It's going to take another miracle for Vanessa. I feel like her luck has got to run out and she'll be Janelle-d.

If Steve wins, I'll be disappointed, but I think he has the best chance right now.

[ByaNose]

I think I always say deserve when I really mean should. Lame but it's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. LOL!! So, Sunday's show is the stupid, "remember when <insert name> said.....?" which I always skip. Then it's onto the Wednesday Finale. It's too bad they stretch out the Final 3 so long. It's like watching paint dry.

[TheGapper]

 

Not to off-track discussion - but for anyone who hadn't caught the story yet: NY Daily News link

 

Gosh, sorry, I realize I mixed The View and The Talk.

[PaperTree]

"Deserves" to win? I don't think anyone on this show "deserves" $500,000.  Yes, I know, that's the basis of the show, but I don't think any of them deserve anything.

 

Ok, rant over.

I think anybody who signs up for this thing, knowing they will be trapped in a windowless house, cut off from ALL external reality while subject to any sort of humiliation on national TV for 3 months deserves to win $500K (while making CBS $millions$) if they get to F2.

 

Julie hasn't used the term "pressure cooker" in a while, but it's so true.  No music alone would make me insane.  

 

Edit:  Except Evil Dick

Edited September 20, 2015 by PaperTree

[ByaNose]

I'm sure Derrick is hoping that Vanessa doesn't win. He hated the earlier comparison to his game and if she won I think he would hate it. Her game was so much frantic than his was. He cool (and, boring) as a cucumber. Whereas, Vanessa had the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. They both played the HG really well but their games were very different. I was more shocked that Vanessa lasted because her game seemed more obvious to the other HG (Shelli & Johnny Mac) compared to Derrick's. IMO!!

[BK1978]

I never get the whole, "I don't want a man to win." or "I don't want a woman to win."   As a man I never root for a man to win and I never get offended if a woman wins (Well that is not true, I was annoyed that the Twinie won Survivor but that was more because she was a reprehensible person who stole from people when she was on TAR and was gleeful in doing so.).  I am not a fan of Vanessa, I do not dislike her either, but I do want her to win because she played the best game out of the people left in the house.  

[pennben]

It's going to take another miracle for Vanessa. I feel like her luck has got to run out and she'll be Janelle-d.

 

Hot streaks only last so long. I think it is win part 3 or go home for Vanessa and I think that may be a win too far. Between Steve and Liz winning, in that case, I go back and forth.

[Brian Cronin]

Yeah, any one of these three winning would be fine by me. Steve, though, is annoying the shit out of me with his speech preparation. Dude, it is a simple freakin' speech! You don't need to practice it for two weeks! 

 

As for the overall win, I still think Vanessa is the better bet to win the final part of HoH, so I think she is still the most likely winner. She plans on taking Liz, right? I think that's the right move, but it IS a shame to see a woman have to bring a woman to be sure that they win. Vanessa likely beats Steve, as well, but she beats Liz much more easily. She probably wins 7-2 against Liz. Steve is likely a 5-4 win with a chance for a 5-4 loss. 

 

 

I'm sure Derrick is hoping that Vanessa doesn't win. He hated the earlier comparison to his game and if she won I think he would hate it.

 

Yeah, there is no doubt that he must be HATING how his "mastermind" season was directly followed by ANOTHER "mastermind" season! But if it makes him feel better, if Steve wins the final part of the HoH, he specifically won't bring Vanessa BECAUSE of how dumb Cody was last year, so Derrick's season could help save Derrick's delusional reputation.

 

Notice how Will and Dan don't give a shit about other people's edits? Because they're cooler than Derrick (and it is not even that Will and Dan are cool, just cooler than Derrick). 

Edited September 20, 2015 by Brian Cronin

[blixie]

 

it's going to take another miracle for Vanessa. I feel like her luck has got to run out and she'll be Janelle-d.

 

 

 

Hot streaks only last so long. I think it is win part 3 or go home for Vanessa and I think that may be a win too far. Between Steve and Liz winning, in that case, I go back and forth.

 

 

I was thinking the same thing, but now that mooses and pennben are picking against her one last time I'm feeling better about Van's chances! 

[Ceeg]

I'm leaning toward Steve winning because I've literally watched this gd show since the beginning and my fave HG at Day 1 has only won once. So the odds are not in my favor at all.

[ByaNose]

How shocked will Steve be if Vanessa doesn't bring him to the finals? Does he know she's bringing Liz if she wins the final comp? I know Vanessa is playing both sides but does Steve know that?

[pennben]

Ha!  I always tape the finale and await the results to see if I want to watch!!  I've deleted a few without viewing:)  I think I'll watch this one because I think it will be interesting no matter who wins.

 

Anyway, this season has just been so much fun to watch the feeds, so I can't complain whatsoever at the ending because it's just an hour or so versus a summer of fun watching this year.

[Ceeg]

How shocked will Steve be if Vanessa doesn't bring him to the finals? Does he know she's bringing Liz if she wins the final comp? I know Vanessa is playing both sides but does Steve know that?

Considering Steve's entire mantra since Week 7 or so has been "I don't trust Vanessa", then no I don't think he'd be surprised if she takes Liz over him. He plans on taking Liz over Vanessa too, so Vanessa would just be doing what Steve planned to do anyway.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Yeah, there is no doubt that he must be HATING how his "mastermind" season was directly followed by ANOTHER "mastermind" season!

AFAIC, Derrick was only a "mastermind" to the extent that he was allowed to keep his true profession a secret. He had training in reading and manipulating people and if the houseguests had known that he probably wouldn't have lasted long. Vanessa has a similar advantage and I can't fault her for it because I'm not sure how much it's really helped her given her repeated histrionics. Derrick should just enjoy the fact that Cody is a clueless idiot who willingly handed him $500k and not worry about someone biting on his rep as a "mastermind". I don't think Vanessa can count on either Liz or Steve willingly handing her anything. (Plus, she can't play the "taking food out of my kid's mouth" card.)

[kikaha]

Joimiaroxeu, IIRC Cody thought he could beat Derrick at finals.  He was wrong, but he didn't knowingly hand Derrick the win. 

 

I think LIz is different.  She does not believe she can beat Vanessa -- not in my opinion anyway -- but would have taken her anyway had she won final HOH.  Good grooming on Vanessa's part. 

 

My view: if Vanessa wins part 3, she takes Liz and wins.  If Steve wins part 3, he takes Liz and wins.  Liz was or should have been the goat for all the F5.  Almost impossible for her not to make F2; almost impossible for her to win. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Joimiaroxeu, IIRC Cody thought he could beat Derrick at finals.

I know that's Cody's story and he's sticking to it. IMO he gave up $500k in exchange for being loyal to BB's version of a frat brother. Heaven forbid he took the risk of losing to a girl. Plus he fell for Derrick's "taking food out of my kid's" mouth mantra.

[pennben]

Plus he fell for Derrick's "taking food out of my kid's" mouth mantra.

 

If we put a hamburger in the daughter's mouth, are we allowed to smack Derrick upside the head for repeating that mantra as an honorable thing?  Bonus, if we give her two hamburgers can we smack a few others from that season?  

 

I think the reason he annoyed me so much, as opposed to Vanessa, is she just would constantly mess up and have to dig out of holes week after week and that provided several days of entertainment; whereas, someone would have a thought, Derrick would say "no", and the week would be over and feeds would be boring all week. 

[LGGirl]

At least this final three have in someway or another have played the game. They all have won comps. You can't say this about the final three of last year.

Pretty sure production wants a Vanessa win. They will prep her on winning the final comp. no doubt about it.

[Eolivet]

I never get the whole, "I don't want a man to win." or "I don't want a woman to win."   As a man I never root for a man to win and I never get offended if a woman wins

 

We all have opinions, we all have favorites, we all have rooting interests. I can disagree with someone about their personal likes and dislikes. But these are the statistics:

 

-Over 2/3 of winners are men (16 winners: 69% men, 31% women -- 11 men, 5 women)

-No woman winner in 4 years

-After 2005, winners have been 80% men (8 men, 2 women)

-No non-showmance woman winner in 10 years

-Women 0-5 vs. men, Men 5-0 vs. women in final 2

-First time in 4 years women have held numbers advantage at final 3 (2 women, 1 man)

-This year, jury is 5-6 women, 3-4 men

 

I honestly have no problem if you don't like Vanessa or Liz, are not rooting for either of them, don't respect them, even refuse to root for them on the sole basis that they're women. That's all opinion. But I disagree strongly with the idea that a woman winner doesn't matter. I believe very strongly it does. These statistics indicate that the lack of women winners isn't coincidence, this is a trend.

 

Statistically speaking, a woman has greater odds of winning this year. And I believe it matters more this year because future contestants will have had the benefit of seeing this year's show. They will know to get out the strong women and to break up the women pairs even not in showmances. They will know those women are threats. This is the only time where they don't have that "knowledge."

 

So, given these statistics, I have no problem with someone who says "I don't like/respect/am not rooting for Vanessa or Liz," as those are all opinions. But I disagree strongly with someone who says "I don't get why it's so important." Statistics have also indicated that representation seems to matter less to those who are consistently represented.

[Vicky]

I don't want Liz in the final two because Austin will take credit for it somehow and I dislike Austin so much I would rather take money from Liz than have Austin anywhere near it. I don't even dislike Liz.

BTW are there any Austin fan clubs out there, or in here, that I'm not aware of? If not, have there been other Houseguests who are so universally disliked?

With Liz out of the picture I'd be fine with either Steve or Vanessa winning.

I've been rooting for Vanessa all season (even though I lost faith once or twice), so I'd prefer Vanessa win.

[Ceeg]

I don't want Liz in the final two because Austin will take credit for it somehow and I dislike Austin so much I would rather take money from Liz than have Austin anywhere near it. I don't even dislike Liz.

On the plus side, I think Liz has almost 0 chance at winning against both Vanessa and Steve. So, it'd be funny to see Austin's head explode if/when either Vanessa wins (despite his efforts) or Steve the Boy beats Austin's hot girlfriend.

 

 

BTW are there any Austin fan clubs out there, or in here, that I'm not aware of? If not, have there been other Houseguests who are so universally disliked?

The Austin hate is nowhere near as bad as the hate other past HGs have gotten IMO. Particularly BB15. 

[PaperTree]

If we put a hamburger in the daughter's mouth, are we allowed to smack Derrick upside the head for repeating that mantra as an honorable thing?  

LOL.  I almost wet my pants!

[pennben]

 

The Austin hate is nowhere near as bad as the hate other past HGs have gotten IMO.

 

As for Austin, I'm going to block out a lot of his/Liz shenanigans (shall we say) as they are two consenting adults.  I'm going to concede that lack of bathing/shampooing is troublesome.  Having said that, if he had won, I probably wouldn't have an issue with it, because he was a good strategist, put himself in a good position and also had a good social game (beyond Liz/Julia/Vanessa).

 

I don't like him, but I don't hate.  As Ceeg suggested, BB15 had the most "hate" worthy; this season, last season, lots of annoying folks to me but that's just it, personal preference, not repugnance at ignorant views.

[ByaNose]

I think the Austin hate is more about him being obnoxious (and, dirty) more than anything else. He thought he was being portrayed as this great character with his (non) witty lines in the DR & Judas. Unbeknownst to him everyone on the outside considered him a joke and a horrible TV character. He doesn't have a clue (nor do most of the HG) that John was considered the fan favorite (though some people didn't) for his DR's. Unfortunately, if Liz is able to pull out a win it will only further his delusion.

[Wings]

 

Unfortunately, if Liz is able to pull out a win it will only further his delusion.

 

Yet another reason I don't want Liz to win.  

[pennben]

 

He doesn't have a clue (nor do most of the HG) that John was considered the fan favorite

 

Oh, he has a clue, he's just trying to deny it.  I remember last month or perhaps longer, they all started figuring out John was in the DR more often than the rest of them.  He was sitting on a bed, I forget who he was talking to, and John was called to DR.  It was fantastic, he bounced around on the bed furious, like a child having a tantrum, and then, stood up and bounced around a bit more......he was furious someone got more attention than he did!  Oh the feeds this year, so much fun!

[ByaNose]

I did forget all the complaints that someone was always in the DR. It might have been about John but I can't recall. I guess that is a sign that either someone is giving a great DR or TPTB love that particular houseguest. I would think if you weren't HOH, nominated for eviction or won POV would make you wonder why HG "X" is always getting called to the DR. I know on Survivor the confessional counts play a big part of who potentially makes the finals or just gives good confessional. With BB, it's a little harder since they may get called a lot or a little but the network shows only so many since its in real time. Unless, you watch the live feeds you wouldn't know how to gage it.

Edited September 20, 2015 by ByaNose

[TimWil]

Austin was always going on and on about making "great TV." I really hope when he's out in the real world that somebody has the balls to tell him his pathetic attempts to do that were not great but fricking awful.

[PaperTree]

.....they all started figuring out John was in the DR more often than the rest of them.  

Maybe it took more tries for Johnny to get his lines right.  Or production just enjoyed his company the most.  I often wonder what it's like for the grunts behind the scenes.  None of that stuff ever leaks out.

[Former Nun]

I really hope when he's out in the real world that somebody has the balls to tell him his pathetic attempts to do that were not great but fricking awful.

 

 

...and creepy.  Instead of Judas, his alter ego should be Austin and his REAL persona should be The Creeper.

[Joimiaroxeu]

A while back I posted that if Liz was playing Austin to get further in the game I hope she never admitted it publicly or otherwise let him find out. He's just bitter and creepy enough not only to start calling her a c*cktease, he'd probably start flat out blaming her for his not winning. It'll be interesting to see how their "relationship" fares if she doesn't win either. I agree with comments upthread that his last hope is getting part of her money if she wins. Probably in his deranged mind, she "owes" him.

[BK1978]

We all have opinions, we all have favorites, we all have rooting interests. I can disagree with someone about their personal likes and dislikes. But these are the statistics:

 

-Over 2/3 of winners are men (16 winners: 69% men, 31% women -- 11 men, 5 women)

-No woman winner in 4 years

-After 2005, winners have been 80% men (8 men, 2 women)

-No non-showmance woman winner in 10 years

-Women 0-5 vs. men, Men 5-0 vs. women in final 2

-First time in 4 years women have held numbers advantage at final 3 (2 women, 1 man)

-This year, jury is 5-6 women, 3-4 men

 

I honestly have no problem if you don't like Vanessa or Liz, are not rooting for either of them, don't respect them, even refuse to root for them on the sole basis that they're women. That's all opinion. But I disagree strongly with the idea that a woman winner doesn't matter. I believe very strongly it does. These statistics indicate that the lack of women winners isn't coincidence, this is a trend.

 

Statistically speaking, a woman has greater odds of winning this year. And I believe it matters more this year because future contestants will have had the benefit of seeing this year's show. They will know to get out the strong women and to break up the women pairs even not in showmances. They will know those women are threats. This is the only time where they don't have that "knowledge."

 

So, given these statistics, I have no problem with someone who says "I don't like/respect/am not rooting for Vanessa or Liz," as those are all opinions. But I disagree strongly with someone who says "I don't get why it's so important." Statistics have also indicated that representation seems to matter less to those who are consistently represented.

 

I want Vanessa to win because she played the best game, I am not sure why you would think I do want her to win or did not respect her.  I am indifferent to everyone in the final three.  I do not hate or like any of them, none of them are my favorite.  Honestly for the first time in a long time I did not have a favorite to win as I was pretty much indifferent about the majority of the cast (Though I did dislike Austin but he was probably the only one I truly disliked).  Vanessa played the best game so I hope she wins for that alone.

 

As for the outcome of this season mattering more for future seasons, well yeah any strong women or pair of strong women should be taken out early.  Just as any strong man or pair of strong men should be taken out early.  That is just smart game play and should have nothing to do based on gender.  The casting has more to do with why women tend to not do well as men than anything else.  The men on the show tend to work well together while the women for some reason do not.

 

The Brigade should have been broken up but nobody was focusing on them, instead folks made it their mission to get rid of Rachel.  Danielle's loss was entirely her fault because of her diary room antics.  Season ten much like this season was the season where there were plenty of good female players who took each other out. 

 

If Vanessa or Liz wins this season I am cool with it but to me it does not matter one way or the other.