S03.E01: Antipasto

[Brattinella]

I'm pretty sure the prior seasons had lots of dark scenes, too. I love everything about this show!  When it became 10 pm last night, I was astonished that the hour had passed so quickly.

 When you have a chance, do a search for Hannibal Food.  Have fun!

[MrsR]

The story thread about Hannibal in Florence posing as Dr. Fell and his lecture about Dante and his rivalry with the other expert are entirely lifted from the third book Hannibal.

 

About Bedelia and her hanging around for the cameras; kind of spoilery kind of speculation,

In the book Hannibal Clarice finds H in Florence by scanning video from shops where she might expect him to frequent. Thus Bedelia is continuously going to the specialty shop and ordering wine and food he would be known to purchase. I believe it's a set up for how Will will find Hannibal later in the season

[DittyDotDot]

Is it wrong that I spent a good deal of the episode distracted by the thought of that kind of party?

 

Man, I forgot how much this show makes me think, I absolutely love that!  I think they got the look and feel of an artsy Italian film to perfection. They were in Florence after all. And the quiet...oh, how I adore the quiet. Yes, the show is pretentious, but I find it fits the show like a nicely tailored suit. ;)

 

Raw oysters  taste like a gulp of sea water, but in a delicious way. Escargots have a very soft taste so it depends a lot on the sauce or species you're using to cook them. 

 

Hee! At first I smiled thinking that was a typo, but then I remembered what show thread I was in. Well done!

 

I think Hannibal has mind fucked Bedelia.  I mean how can he blame HER for HIM killing Dimmond?  Hannibal's like, "It's your fault I'm killing him."  I'm like WTF, that doesn't make any sense, I'm like, dude, I'm not the one who snapped that guy's neck.  

 

What was that scene with Bedelia at the train station about?  Where was she going?  

 

Maybe I misunderstood? Hannibal asked her why she did it, was she curious. I thought she had done or said something to Dimmond just see how Hannibal would respond. She was surprised earlier when Hannibal didn't kill Dimmond, so I think she was testing the boundaries and realized too late she had crossed a line. Earlier in the episode she said she felt like her choices were still her own, I think she now knows she was wrong.

 

I don't think she was going anywhere, but making sure she was seen on the surveillance video. I think she's trying to make sure Will finds them.

[MisterGlass]

I understand why the emphasis on the atmospheric shots and lingering asides were off-putting to some of the audience.  It was a gradual, indulgent opening for the season.  I wondered going in how they would handle the season opener because Season 2 began with such a bang that it couldn't be equaled, and because the show has broken from its procedural underpinnings, at least for now.  I think it makes since to have a soft start as a transition, and to explain the current dynamic between Hannibal and Bedelia, and how they ended up on that plane and in these ornate chambers.  I enjoyed it.  However, atmosphere for atmosphere's sake can go too far.

 

I think Bedelia on the train station platform was giving as much of a cry for help as she feels able to give.  Integrating her into what was a solo outing for Hannibal in the book gives insight into his mind and deepens the sense of dread.  I think she did fairly well controlling herself while having dinner with a man when she expected him to die at the end of it.  There is no certainty for her anymore.  Hannibal controls her future now that he has confronted her with her participation, something she may have explained away up to this point as professional curiosity, or helplessness in the face of a monster.

 

 

The bit about the Judas hanging is such obvious foreshadowing.

In the book,

a police officer with a famous, traitorous, and hanged ancestor was trying to ensnare Hannibal for Mason Verger. He did not fair well, though it will be interesting to see if he shows up in this.  However, with Bedelia along there is no telling how the story will change.

 

Edited for spelling.

Edited June 6, 2015 by MisterGlass

[Anela]

Is it wrong that I spent a good deal of the episode distracted by the thought of that kind of party?

 

Man, I forgot how much this show makes me think, I absolutely love that!  I think they got the look and feel of an artsy Italian film to perfection. They were in Florence after all. And the quiet...oh, how I adore the quiet. Yes, the show is pretentious, but I find it fits the show like a nicely tailored suit. ;)

 

 

Hee! At first I smiled thinking that was a typo, but then I remembered what show thread I was in. Well done!

 

 

Maybe I misunderstood? Hannibal asked her why she did it, was she curious. I thought she had done or said something to Dimmond just see how Hannibal would respond. She was surprised earlier when Hannibal didn't kill Dimmond, so I think she was testing the boundaries and realized too late she had crossed a line. Earlier in the episode she said she felt like her choices were still her own, I think she now knows she was wrong.

 

I don't think she was going anywhere, but making sure she was seen on the surveillance video. I think she's trying to make sure Will finds them.

I thought she once inferred that he had already messed with her, via that patient. Maybe I just came to that conclusion on my own. She pointed out that he was Hannibal's patient before he went to her, and then the guy attacked her (I thought). 

Edited June 6, 2015 by Anela

[LittleIggy]

So happy the sexiest fictional cannibal is back! Great opening episode.

[Snookums]

 

"I do not love thee, Dr Fell.

The reason why I cannot tell;

But this I know, and know full well,

I do not love thee Dr Fell."

 

I can't be the only one who had that running through their head, can I?

 

 

Absolutely not, it was the first thing I thought of. If that hadn't been the actual name of the identity Hannibal stole I would have shaken my finger at him for being so showy. But he's obviously tired of the shadows and enjoying stringing Bedelia's terror along, so he's getting all "riding his bike no-handed." Once you doff the person suit, you just can't get it on again.

 

Gillian Anderson sold curiosity and terror with perfection.  She really is in his power, even if she wants to leave.  Her comment about feeling in control of herself being a victory with Hannibal around is too true.  She lost control when she gave in to her curiosity, and now it is too late.  Mads was wonderful too, hunting and seeking.

 

 

And how he set her up YEARS ago with the patient attack, and she's been aware this whole time that one day the Devil will claim his due. Said it before and I'll say it again, Bedelia Du Marier is a survivor, and they are the most dangerous people of all. She knows she's been manipulated, that Hannibal will always pull her delicate gold ankle chain without her being aware, so she works around him--her elaborate, eye catching clothes, returning to the same store and speaking good Italian in an odd enough to be noticed accent, making sure a camera sees her face. When your enemy has outposts in your head, you have to be a guerrilla warrior in Dior--showing only the cracks he made, not your eye peeking out from them. 

 

Even her fleeing was calculated: she knew that after her "My husband's very particular about how I taste" WHHHHHAAAAAAT remark, that Hannibal would realize she's challenging him to kill the guy, to do something. This was after he told her he's making sure to cut down on the kills so their new life isn't spoiled--it really meant a lot to him that he got a job on his merits, so her remark was meant to push him into a situation where he's used to being the lead--as if she suddenly took the man's position in the waltz. 

 

So his lecture about betrayal and hanging is pretty damn obvious, especially for Mr. Subtle. That's him saying "okay, B, I see you, I get it, and am seeing your bet." So she takes off, knowing full well that he'll follow her home--her bet is that he'll get home before she leaves. If he has to chase her, he'll kill her. So she was actually relieved alongside her genuine horror--maybe he pushed her into participating, but she's actually been doing that for years, ever since she asked for his help. She knows him a lot better then he thinks she does. By "forcing" her to participate in Dimmond's murder, she actually gains the upper hand by bringing his control out into the open.

[Snookums]

Eddy Izzard clanging that fork! Love his petty defiance.

 

 

That made me laugh so hard! Hannibal knows that if he does anything about it he loses, especially when Eddy throws the fork on the floor! Hannibal's face is totally "This is why I do not have kids" during that whole bit.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

After sauntering through Florence dressed like a fabulous Carmen Santiago in a blue hat and coat, Bedelia purchases her usual wine and truffles and inexplicably goes to an Italian train station and sits on a bench? For a minute there I thought she was gonna hop a train but nope.

I was afraid she was going to hop in front of a train to kill herself and escape Hannibal in the only permanent way she could think of.

[ketchuplover]

Hannibal's biggest "dick move" of the episode: serving escargot in the shell to a one-armed man.

Good grief I missed that :(  I heard talk of (part of) a leg missing but didn't see that either :(  Hope I didn't miss seeing hoe Quinto died

[lulee]

Good grief I missed that :( I heard talk of (part of) a leg missing but didn't see that either :( Hope I didn't miss seeing how Quinto died

you didn't. Not much was shown. Methinks we'll see an earlier part of that scene on a future episode.

[Neurochick]

What exactly did Bedelia say to Dimmond that challenged him?  What did she say to Hannibal?  I felt that I missed something.

 

Why would Hannibal impersonate a real person?  Wouldn't that be risky?  Dimmond knew what the real Fell looked like, but what if someone else did?  

 

When Hannibal was on the train at the end, where was he going?  Where was Bedelia?  

 

When Hannibal manipulated Bedelia, did she go along with him because she was frightened of him?  Was she afraid to say, "No thanks, I'll take care of this myself motherfucker?"  

[kmm49]

Why would Hannibal impersonate a real person?  Wouldn't that be risky?

The show's been pushing credibility since last season. All of law enforcement should be looking out for him. I'm glad somewhat they're getting away from murder of the week but I'm afraid we're not going to get the plot developments. With Hannibal out of prison where else can the show go? With Hannibal in prison where can the show go? He still has to at least manipulate (and kill every now and then) people to keep the plots going so therefore pushing credibility. I'm okay with this as long as there's a storyline in season three because I don't watch this show for credibility and I'm sure most viewers feel the same way.

Edited June 6, 2015 by kmm49

[DittyDotDot]

What exactly did Bedelia say to Dimmond that challenged him?  What did she say to Hannibal?  I felt that I missed something.

 

I don't think it was just one thing that raised Dimmond's suspicion...Hannibal just happened to fall into a position vacated by a conveniently missing man; using the name Dr. Fell; and then that dinner...

 

Why would Hannibal impersonate a real person?  Wouldn't that be risky?  Dimmond knew what the real Fell looked like, but what if someone else did?  

 

Is it really a risk if the person whose name your using died in the 1600s?  I do agree Hannibal is playing with fire now that he took off the person suit, though.

 

What's interesting to me is: I've never read the books or saw any of the movies till last week when I watched Silence of the Lambs on a whim. I commented to a friend who had read the books that I had a hard time believing movie Hannibal hadn't been caught sooner. She replied, this was after he was caught and gave up all his pretenses; now he can play with people openly. It's interesting to me how much more this Hannibal is becoming like the Hannibal from the movie.

 

When Hannibal was on the train at the end, where was he going?  Where was Bedelia?  

 

I assumed they were moving on to the next place. One missing person and they might not raise too much suspicion, but now another...

 

When Hannibal manipulated Bedelia, did she go along with him because she was frightened of him?  Was she afraid to say, "No thanks, I'll take care of this myself motherfucker?"  

 

I think she was curious, but thought she was in control to a certain extent. IMO, she's fascinated by Hannibal and wants to study him in the wild, so to speak. But how can one passively observe a serial killer without also participating in the deaths, to a certain degree? That's what Hannibal was telling her in the end; she's been participating all along.

[Captanne]

Fable quoting someone:  While we're on the subject -- I'm also finding the cannibalism nauseating and bordering on boring*.  The only book (hardcover or otherwise) I've ever thrown in the dumpster was American Psycho, by Bret Easton Ellis.  The sole redeeming quality of that book was to make me finally realize what a hack the author is.

 

*The late, great Lenny Bruce (Google him) made a point to the censors that if you use something alarming over and over again, your audience becomes numb to it.  Although I will never make cannibalism jokes or plays on words intentionally (because....see:  obvious and boring) about this show, I am becoming numb to the horror.  My beloved Eddie Izzard as Abel is refusing to eat his leg** and I'm saying, "Move on already.  Isn't there a plot here?"  I'm not sure that is what the show runners are going for as far as "audience response".  

 

**Although, to be fair, the best and richest*** dialogue in the episode, imo, was at that very dinner table and the words were in Abel's mouth.

 

***Richest?  Riches?  Eddie Izzard?  See what I did there?  Hee.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Captanne

[attica]

Why would Hannibal impersonate a real person?  Wouldn't that be risky?

 

Yeah, a guy with the reputation of Dr. Fell would have a wiki page and be googlable. That Florentine academics can't/don't manage what people do with casual prospects on dating sites is an anachronism at best. It certainly requires significant suspension of disbelief. But then, so much of this show does.

 

Me, it seems I'm a willing observer/participant.

[Dot Com]

Was Roman the first name of the man whose place Hannibal took? It so then Dimmond mentioned to Hannibal that he had been Roman's TA. I seriously need to rewatch this episode. I was confused about much of it.

[DittyDotDot]

Yeah, a guy with the reputation of Dr. Fell would have a wiki page and be googlable. That Florentine academics can't/don't manage what people do with casual prospects on dating sites is an anachronism at best. It certainly requires significant suspension of disbelief. But then, so much of this show does.

 

Me, it seems I'm a willing observer/participant.

 

Oh, I'm sure Hannibal provided them with the proper credentials to pacify them. If you google Dr. Fell (or John Fell), all you'll find is a guy who spawned a nursery rhyme, was the Bishop of Oxford and died in the 1600s. I doubt it would raise too many eyebrows if they were provided with proper paperwork for this day and age.

 

Was Roman the first name of the man whose place Hannibal took? It so then Dimmond mentioned to Hannibal that he had been Roman's TA. I seriously need to rewatch this episode. I was confused about much of it.

 

Oh, I thought he was saying he was "Dr. Fell's" TA in Oxford. John Fell was the Bishop of Oxford in the 1600s and the nursery rhyme I Don't Like Thee, Doctor Fell is ascribed to him. It was Dimmond's way of letting Hannibal know he wasn't who he was saying he was.

Edited June 6, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[Captanne]

I am also starting to say frequently, "Oh, look!  Someone went to film school!" about all the heavy-handed camera-driven drah-mah.  Is the show lush?  Yes.  Is the cumbersome over-wrought style blocking the view of the plotline?  Yes, for me it is.

[90PercentGravity]

I'll have to rewatch, because I might have this wrong.

I thought Dr. Fell was the guy from the party who Hannibal ate. The one whose wife walked in and may have been et herself.

Roman was the jerky Italian guy who insisted Hannibal do the Dante lecture.

Dimmon was Fell's TA, which he mentioned when he met Hannibal at the party in the beginning. He then later tools the Italian staff people at Hannibal's lecture that he was Hannibal's TA (Hannibal as Fell).

Edited June 6, 2015 by 90PercentGravity

[saber5055]

And how he set her up YEARS ago with the patient attack, and she's been aware this whole time that one day the Devil will claim his due.

 

 

Thanks, Snookums, for your insightful post. It did not even occur to me that Hannibal sent that "patient" to Bedelia so she would have to deal with him in Hannibal's way. Hannibal was right there afterward, too, so point proven.

 

Since no one is looking for Bedelia, why does she feel the need to show her face to the CC? She was questioned by the FBI guys and they had no reason to detain or question her further. What would make them even think she was with Hannibal, unless they found his old clothes in her house after his shower, and Will's blood in her drain. (So I guess there's that.)

 

I missed the part when Dimmond got clonked on the head. What precipitated that, and who did the clonking?

[Helena Dax]

 

I missed the part when Dimmond got clonked on the head. What precipitated that, and who did the clonking?

 

Hannibal did. Dimmond suspected Hannibal had killed the real doctor Fell and he was insinuating he wanted to  become Hannibal's killer buddy. I guess Hannibal wasn't very keen on the idea.

[saber5055]

Thanks Helena. That's what I thought (it happened too quickly after commercial break while I was channel flipping!) but from reading here it sounded like maybe Bedelia did it. Poor Dimmond obviously didn't see the other two seasons of this show or he would have known Hannibal didn't want a partner (that isn't Will).

 

Did Hannibal ever comment on Bedelia's packed bag?

Edited June 6, 2015 by saber5055

[DittyDotDot]

I'll have to rewatch, because I might have this wrong.

I thought Dr. Fell was the guy from the party who Hannibal ate. The one whose wife walked in and may have been et herself.

Roman was the jerky Italian guy who insisted Hannibal do the Dante lecture.

Dimmon was Fell's TA, which he mentioned when he met Hannibal at the party in the beginning. He then later tools the Italian staff people at Hannibal's lecture that he was Hannibal's TA (Hannibal as Fell).

 

Oh, I thought Roman was the guy who Hannibal ate at the top of the hour. Bedelia said Hannibal created a vacancy at the Palazzo Cappoini by removing the former curator and Hannibal said, "Once the path was cleared, I won the job fairly." So, I thought the former curator was Roman and Hannibal was using the Dr. Fell pseudonym because he was making a joke--which he was--but now I see the confusion.

 

So, Hannibal was just becoming what he ate, huh? ;)

 

Actually that makes a bit more sense why Bedelia hightailed it out of that lecture after she saw Dimmond...the jig being up and all!

Edited June 6, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[Snookums]

Was Roman the first name of the man whose place Hannibal took?

 

 

Yes. It breaks down like this:

 

Dr. Roman Fell was the guy Hannibal followed on motorcycle in Paris at the beginning: the one he exchanged "Bon Soirs" with. He killed and ate him, and was dining upon Fell kidney when Fell's wife came home and saw him. He presumably killed and ate her too, since Bedelia assumed her identity. They posed as Dr. and Mrs. Fell in Florence, where Hannibal applied for and got a curator post at a museum. He eliminated Dr. Fell to steal his identity and obtain that job.

 

Bearded Guy is Dr. Sogliato, who resents "Dr. Fell's " appointment since he's not even Italian and considers him a poseur. He's still alive, and since Hannibal and Bedelia (presumably she's still with him) had to flee post Dimmond-Torso-Display, will remain so for the time being; Hannibal even told Bedelia that if Sogliato turns up sliced and diced it will attract too much attention. Sogliato will probably cheerfully rat out Hannibal to Jack and Will once they trace him to Italy.

 

Dimmond was the real Fell's former TA at Cambridge. He's the one who met Hannibal at the second party double fisting Champagne and went on about what an ass Fell was and a hack to boot. Hannibal ran into him later, in Florence, realized that this is a potential loose end, and invites him to "dinner." Said dinner turned out to not be that kind of party, and Dimmond walked out hale and hearty. Hannibal let him live to both torment Bedelia and see what would happen. Bedelia's remarks about how Hannibal wants her to taste were so bold as to be revealing, and Hannibal countered with his lecture on Judas, betrayal, and hanging. Bedelia flees.

 

Dimmond catches Hannibal post lecture and basically says you two are hot and don't worry, we can work something out, hopefully nakedly, and I'm totes down with hanging with you fascinating people. He basically has no idea what kind of fire he's playing with, and Hannibal knows that if there's one thing that will get you caught, it's blackmail. So he brings Dimmond home where Bedelia's about to walk out the door, clonks him, has the little "let's discuss our feelings" rap with the good Dr. Du Marier, and the last we see of Dimmond is his torso a-flay in Hannibal's office. 

[DittyDotDot]

Dr. Roman Fell was the guy Hannibal followed on motorcycle in Paris at the beginning: the one he exchanged "Bon Soirs" with. He killed and ate him, and was dining upon Fell kidney when Fell's wife came home and saw him. He presumably killed and ate her too, since Bedelia assumed her identity. They posed as Dr. and Mrs. Fell in Florence, where Hannibal applied for and got a curator post at a museum. He eliminated Dr. Fell to steal his identity and obtain that job.. 

 

Thanks Snookums, I must have missed it was Dr. Roman Fell at the top of the hour--I only caught the Roman part, I guess. It all makes perfect sense now that I have this information. Although, it still made quite a bit of sense without it too.

[jeansheridan]

After rewatching, I suspect Hannibal and Bedelia have NOT had relations, so to speak.  I think he's seducing her and withholding to keep her enticed.  Her entire stripping in front of him was a tease that he didn't take.   I think her wry, "definitely NOT that kind of party," indicates that isn't something that has happened.  I think her comment that her husband wants her to taste a certain way was more flirting at Hannibal.  That guy was most definitely into her.  He watched her almost exclusively.  But of course Hannibal doesn't get jealous.  He would never get jealous.  That's not his nature.  He doesn't covet what other people have for the most part.  

 

I like that he was just a tad defensive about getting his research job.  That he didn't just get it because he murdered his predecessor.  He earned it.  And in fact, I don't think he was all that offended by the Italian professor.  I think he appreciated being challenged so he could show off.  He needs a  foil.  

Edited June 8, 2015 by jeansheridan

[saber5055]

Snookums, you need to recap here every week! Thanks for the info and insight once again.

[Neurochick]

Is it really a risk if the person whose name your using died in the 1600s?  I do agree Hannibal is playing with fire now that he took off the person suit, though.

 

 

I see it's been explained.  Roman Fell was the man Hannibal ate in the beginning of the episode and the name of the person Hannibal impersonated.  

[penelope79]

Really loved this episode. There were episodes in previous seasons that, as much as I like the show and its pure visual beauty, I found a bit boring. But I enjoyed this one 100% and... wow, Mads Mikkelsen and Gillian Anderson's chemistry is off the charts.

 

I think Gillian did okay with her Italian. Mass is still a bit mumbly

 

I'm Italian and Gillian's Italian was obviously spoken by a foreigner (she even sounded a bit French, but of course she was buying French wine), but I literally murmured: "Bravo!" to Mads because his Italian accent was almost flawless (though I agree he still mumbles :) ), considering he had to speak 1200/1300 Italian, Dante's Italian, which even for us is often an issue. I mean, Dante is the father of current Italian language and I adore him, but is far from being "easy", hence... bravissimo Mads! 

 

By the way, of course Hannibal Lecter's lectures are about the Inferno, that's the place he belongs: he would've definitively joined Count Ugolino (aka the "Cannibal Count")! :D

 

The bit about the Judas hanging is such obvious foreshadowing.  I don't want Gillian Anderson to go, though.

 

I couldn't help but thinking the same. Judas killed himself after his betrayal of Jesus; Pier Delle Vigne allegedly killed himself after his betrayal of Emperor Frederick II... is it really the only way out for Bedelia?

 

Yes it is. I think Bedelia knows that too. After sauntering through Florence dressed like a fabulous Carmen Santiago in a blue hat and coat, Bedelia purchases her usual wine and truffles and inexplicably goes to an Italian train station and sits on a bench? For a minute there I thought she was gonna hop a train but nope. She sits on the bench and looks directly into the camera giving a pretty good face shot. My guess is that was an SOS to Will and/or the FBI. We'll see if that pans out.

 

ITA.

 

I was kind of lost at the very end.  Was Hannibal leaving Italy?  What was that giant heart he created?  Strange.

 

I think Hannibal has mind fucked Bedelia.  I mean how can he blame HER for HIM killing Dimmond?  Hannibal's like, "It's your fault I'm killing him."  I'm like WTF, that doesn't make any sense, I'm like, dude, I'm not the one who snapped that guy's neck.  

 

Are we really sure Hannibal was leaving Florence? And if so, to go where? As far as I know, they supposedly filmed in Italy for quite some time so, unless he's heading to another Italian city, I thought the scene of him on a train was not necessarily subsequent to the murder of Dimmond. Maybe it doesn't mean anything, but he's wearing the same leather jacket (by the way, Mads' look and style really improved this season, imho) he had in the Paris scenes. I actually wondered if Hannibal on the train was him "going" to Italy from Paris or, in any case, a scene set in a near future because, apparently, Bedelia is not with him.

 

I completely agree that Hannibal has mind fucked Bedelia and I also agree with the following statement:

 

I thought she once inferred that he had already messed with her, via that patient. Maybe I just came to that conclusion on my own. She pointed out that he was Hannibal's patient before he went to her, and then the guy attacked her (I thought). 

 

I remember that, too.

 

I confirm Bedelia bought French wine -Batard Montrachet- and white truffles.Though I couldn't help but thinking: "you're in Italy, in Tuscany, and you're buying French wine? Seriously?" Then I came here and I realized, reading your comments, that she's probably buying those items on purpose, like she's crying for help: I mean wine aside, white truffle is very expensive. And she bought 2 TRUFFLES. Twice!

 

A -not- important question, just a nitpick from my part: do we know the year the Florence scenes are supposed to be? Hannibal is set in 2010s, right? Because Bedelia's (amazing) clothes and hair are a bit old style and, most of all, the last time I saw that uniform on a vigile urbano (vigili urbani are some sort of police, though they mostly deal with traffic and monetary penalties; Bedelia runs into one of them) was in 60s movies.

Edited June 6, 2015 by penelope79

[Desperately Random]

Dr. Roman Fell was the guy Hannibal followed on motorcycle in Paris at the beginning: the one he exchanged "Bon Soirs" with. He killed and ate him, and was dining upon Fell kidney when Fell's wife came home and saw him. He presumably killed and ate her too, since Bedelia assumed her identity. They posed as Dr. and Mrs. Fell in Florence, where Hannibal applied for and got a curator post at a museum. He eliminated Dr. Fell to steal his identity and obtain that job.

Snookums , great recap of how and why Hannibal became Dr. Roman Fell. I just want to add that Hannibal also killed the curator (I don't remember if they said his name) but they didn't show him doing the murder. He told Bedelia that he made the man disappear and all it took was a couple of bags of cement. Then he proudly, and with all sincerity, told her he got the curator job on merit. Haha. Who says Hannibal doesn't have a sense of humor?

I'll admit that I also had trouble following the show the first time I watched it. In fact, I really wasn't enjoying it much but it could also have been because I was very tired that night. I finally decided to stop about halfway through and watch the next day. What a difference. I loved every minute of it on my second viewing. And it all made much more sense than it did the first time I tried to watch.

I am really looking forward to seeing Will next week.

[rozen]

Long time lurker. I love this show, but damn if that wasn't one of the most self-indulgent pretentious piles of crap I've seen on my TV in a long time.

Almost no noir tropes were spared: long shots without dialogue, B&W, slo-mo, forced perspective, oversaturated colors, 90 degree angle shots. The only thing missing was an evil twin.

Not to mention the near lack of any plot whatsoever. 5 minutes of story and 45 minutes of visual masturbation.

The rest if the season better not be like this.

 

Word, 'sensual' navel-gazing shots of blood or wine, or whatever, didn't distract from the fact the episode was disjointed as fawk. 

 

What does Bedelia do all day other than buy booze and sit at park benches? A bit annoying that she's apparently a stay-at-home wife in this arrangement, considering she's quite the brainiac herself. If Hannibal had brought bae Will, he would have let him get a job, and probably come to his lectures to intellectually drool all over him. It gives her nothing to do but sit around and be terrified about her imminent demise, but maybe Hannibal likes it that way. I laughed after she almost choked on her 'flavor-improving' oyster during dinner. Oh, honey, did you really think Hannibal considered you his equal?

 

I think Bedelia is trying to stand out as much as possible so that it's a pain to kill her. It makes it much easier for the police to map out timelines for where she was and what she was doing, as she appears to be keeping to a routine almost religiously (go to the shop, buy the same thing every day, sit at the same bench, walk through the same path). Doesn't give Hannibal much time to make her into a high art murder display, or torture her. I wonder if it's her body in that black trunk in the end.

 

Bedelia is certainly attracted to Hannibal. Gillian Andersen had the best little eye twitch when naked Hannibal asked to get dressed. Like she almost wanted to say no, then pulled it together after reminding herself she was ogling a cannibal. The gun even dipped in her hand, she would have missed the shot for sure if he'd bullrushed her at that moment.

 

Man, Hannibal was quite the bitter betty with Abel, huh? I feel like half the reason for Abel's extended death was that he had the temerity to think he could be Hannibal, even if basically brainwashed at the time. Hannibal gave him a grad tour, like "do you know how much effort goes into this shit? You thought you were even a tenth as good as me? Boy, bye."

Edited June 6, 2015 by rozen

[Caelicola]

Hi everyone, I'm popping my metaphorical cherry on this forum because while I adore this show, I somehow never thought to click on the Hannibal forum link. But with the new season it's like a lightbulb went off and I realised there must be a forum, so why not participate rather than just observe? Because observing isn't always participating.

 

I love that this show's plot is so rarified. I understand that style over substance isn't for everyone, but it's definitely for me. I love that there's nothing realistic or pragmatic about it, everything looks and sounds like a dream, sometimes beautiful and poetic and other times terrifying and haunting. None of the characters speaks like a normal human would, and that annoys me to no end when it's in a semi-realistic setting, but I find it an absolutley brilliant device here, where it further reinforces the absolutely fantastic and fanciful nature of everything.

 

I'm Italian and Gillian's Italian was obviously spoken by a foreigner (she even sounded a bit French, but of course she was buying French wine), but I literally murmured: "Bravo!" to Mads because his Italian accent was almost flawless (though I agree he still mumbles :) ), considering he had to speak 1200/1300 Italian, Dante's Italian, which even for us is often an issue. I mean, Dante is the father of current Italian language and I adore him, but is far from being "easy", hence... bravissimo Mads! 

 

By the way, of course Hannibal Lecter's lectures are about the Inferno, that's the place he belongs: he would've definitively joined Count Ugolino (aka the "Cannibal Count")! :D

Yay, another Italian! I'm Italian too, and I was actually terrified of Sogliato, because there's very little that takes me completely out of a story like hearing a supposedly Italian character speak with an american accent, so I was glad they avoided the issue by having him speak almost exclusively English, with a few Italian words thrown in.

So yeah, fanciful and fantastic has to be a well-made fanciful and fantastic, and this soooo was.

 

I thought of Ugolino, too, but then, in Dante's Inferno Ugolino was driven to cannibalism by circumstance and desperation, so maybe Hannibal wouldn't really get along with him, since Ugolino doesn't seem to appreciate the great opportunity given to him, of eating his children. I don't think più dell'onor potè il digiuno is a philosophy Hannibal would respect or even understand at all, the count should have jumped at the chance, what's wrong with him!?

 

Mads Mikkelsen remains one of the most interesting actors I've ever seen and Gillian Anderson is -and has always been- a lovely, deep and subtle performer. And yeah, I personally would have liked it to be that kind of party.

(Also, I think the imagery with Lucifer's face superimposed on Hannibal was a smidge too subtle, maybe? They might want to go a bit more explicit and overt with their symbols, the mark left on my forehead by that anvil is about to fade already!)

[penelope79]

Yay, another Italian! I'm Italian too, and I was actually terrified of Sogliato, because there's very little that takes me completely out of a story like hearing a supposedly Italian character speak with an american accent, so I was glad they avoided the issue by having him speak almost exclusively English, with a few Italian words thrown in.

So yeah, fanciful and fantastic has to be a well-made fanciful and fantastic, and this soooo was.

I thought of Ugolino, too, but then, in Dante's Inferno Ugolino was driven to cannibalism by circumstance and desperation, so maybe Hannibal wouldn't really get along with him, since Ugolino doesn't seem to appreciate the great opportunity given to him, of eating his children. I don't think più dell'onor potè il digiuno is a philosophy Hannibal would respect or even understand at all, the count should have jumped at the chance, what's wrong with him!?

Nice to meet you then, felice di conoscerti! :)

I agree that Hannibal and Count Ugolino would probably not share the same vision in the end (mine was mostly a joke)!

Next episode promo looks very promising, too! Can't wait!

Edited June 7, 2015 by penelope79

[Caelicola]

Also, in an episode full of professors, doctors, authors and poets, everyone turned out to be a bit of a quack; Fell is introduced as worthless and distasteful (hee), Dimmond is almost unbearably pompous and self-aggrandizing, with his "it takes me ten months just to write a line, poetry is soooo haaaaard" and Sogliato wants to test Hannibal's mettle with Dante?! Seriously, Dante is the most obscure, challenging thing he could think of? No, no, dottor Sogliato, if you really want to be pretentious and a little racist, throw the foreigner at least a Stefano Protonotaro, come on! What kind of pompous academic douchebag are you? Amateurs, all of them. Nobody is more pretentious and affected than Hannibal.

[Helena Dax]

I don't remember, did Hannibal say that Dante was accusing della Vigna of treason? Because Dante put him with the suicides, not with the traitors. Which I guess it means Dante thought della Vigna wasn't a traitor.

[kmm49]

I wish they would've showed us how Hannibal found Bedelia. How he got her back under his control. I think the only way out of this for her is to kill herself or to work with Will or the police on getting Hannibal caught.

 

Also, I think the imagery with Lucifer's face superimposed on Hannibal was a smidge too subtle, maybe?

Loved it! I love that imagery and most of it hasn't been subtle on this show.

 

Mads Mikkelsen remains one of the most interesting actors I've ever seen and Gillian Anderson is -and has always been- a lovely, deep and subtle performer.

Mads is the perfect Hannibal. I've been a fan of Gillian since season two of The X-Files and I do like her character on Hannibal but I'm not seeing the chemistry between her and Mads that some people are.

 

What does Bedelia do all day other than buy booze and sit at park benches?

I hope the writers give her more to do as the season progresses but how long is she going to last? I'm sure Hannibal will make a meal out of her because Gillian's getting ready to film The X-Files. If I had to live under Hannibal's hand I'd just live for the sex or throw myself upon the train tracks! But I like that the writers are showing how lonely and sad she is. I think her being desperate to get away will only grow throughout the season.

Edited June 7, 2015 by kmm49

[Captanne]

You all are kidding about the superimposition of Lucifer over Hannibal being subtle, right?

[Caelicola]

You all are kidding about the superimposition of Lucifer over Hannibal being subtle, right?

Yep.

I'm not complaining, though, I like an anvil here and there.

[saber5055]

Also, I think the imagery with Lucifer's face superimposed on Hannibal was a smidge too subtle, maybe?

 

 

This reminded me of previous seasons where Hannibal was filmed in his home with the fire in the fireplace showing in the background directly over his head, plus another scene where antlers in the background just "happened" to appear behind his head. Imagery! And no, not subtle at all if one knows what Hannibal really is.

[tennisgurl]

This show! This cinematography! The many discussions of Italy and Italian literature! Its just a wonder and I am so glad to have it back.

 

I went to Italy last summer, and loved it, so seeing it again gave me warm fuzzy feelings, although I was mostly in Rome. So beautiful! 

 

Hannibal must be happy people can finally get all of his cannibal puns."We`ll be having you for dinner...see what I did there Bedelia? High five?" 

[Penman61]

Hannibal must be happy people can finally get all of his cannibal puns."We`ll be having you for dinner...see what I did there Bedelia? High five?" 

 

Oh God, I'm fine with erudite Hannibal, nearly-nude sexy Hannibal, black-clad biker Hannibal, bicurious Hannibal, but the one Hannibal I pray we never, ever get is...

 

...Bro-Hannibal.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Penman61

[Texasmom1970]

Oh, how I have missed this show, I was driving my daughter crazy coubring down the days. Loved the episode, but I can't wait to see Will. I love Hugh by himself and his interactions with Mads practically makes the show for me.

The settings of this episode were just breathtaking, must go to Europe now. And I freaking loved every outfit Gillian Anderson wore, wish I had them all in my closet!

[MisterGlass]

This show always falls into magical realism for me.  The wendigos, ravenstags, and demonic visages are not subtle, but they fit.  I think the acting is where this show finds subtlety.

 

Snookums, you make interesting arguments for Bedelia having more control than she appears to have.  I think she she had a certain amount in the beginning, before she first broke off their therapy, but since going with him she has been losing her advantage a bit at a time.  She knew Hannibal was wearing a person suit, and she speculated about what was underneath, but I do not think she knew the depths of what Hannibal had done until after she chose to go with him.  She is still clinging to a more academic understanding of what he is, and trying to stay above the situation by refusing to eat anything with a central nervous system.  It is now, when he has made her a witness and accomplice to a murder with no shred of self defense to be claimed, that she has to face her position head on.

 

Hannibal claims to be keeping the peace, but he has set them in a tenuous position, which suggests that he never intended this to be a permanent peace.  Bedelia said he was more interested in making appearances that keeping them up, and she's right.  There are too many people like Dimmond who can stumble onto him.  And now, Dimmond is dead and his body will be telling tales.  He was Fell's student, and was last seen in Italy.  Hannibal could have bought more cement and instead he left breadcrumbs.

 

There have been several questions about Hannibal riding on the train near the end.  I thought he was taking his human-gami to a fitting display place.  He would need to separate it from his hiding place to give himself a head start, because those who know his work, especially Will, will see his hand in it.

 

Yes, Ugolino was a cannibal of circumstance, not choice.  He's in the traitors' circle because of other actions.  Hannibal has betrayed so many people, mostly to satisfy his curiosity.

[lulee]

Oh God, I'm fine with erudite Hannibal, nearly-nude sexy Hannibal, black-clad biker Hannibal, bicurious Hannibal, but the one Hannibal I pray we never, ever get is...

 

...Bro-Hannibal.

Or Lo-Hannibal where he tosses a lucrative movie career in the crapper after substance abuse problems and a super-messy personal life and crazy family dynamics.

 

A heads up for those of you who thought this episode was indulgent style over substance/ plot, I think I read that Bryan Fuller said that next week's episode is his artsy-fartsiest yet.

Edited June 7, 2015 by lulee

[SonofaBiscuit]

So, I had watched most of season one of this show, but I had to give it up due to the visuals.  The gore was too much for me to take...couldn't stomach it.  I had read that 

Richard Armitage

would be joining the cast this season, and I really liked Hugh Dancy and Mads Mikkelsen during the first season, so I thought I'd give it another chance.  

 

Wow, this show is really confusing to follow for anyone trying to jump in at the start of this season.  I had no idea what was going on in the flashbacks.  I gather that Hannibal was preparing meals from Eddie Izzard's body parts and then they both were eating them (I guess??), but I really don't know why.  And Gillian Anderson was sitting on a bench and then all of the sudden she's in a room covered with blood freaking out over a dead guy.  Yeah, so confused.

 

Also really confused about the fact that Hannibal and Gillian Anderson's character are married, and she knows that he eats people, but she seems utterly repulsed by the fact that he kills people.  Not sure how or why she ended up with him.

 

I'm also not a fan of the artsy visuals combined with dripping noises and such.  No joke, that shit nearly put me to sleep.  I'm going to hang in there to see 

Richard Armitage

, but honestly, I would have bailed straight away after this episode if I didn't know he was going to show up.  This just isn't my type of show, I guess.  Sorry, I know many of you love it.

Edited June 7, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[BookWoman56]

While watching, I wondered why in the scenes at the specialty shop, there was at least one closeup shot of the shop's door, complete with store name and logo. But then when Bedelia is sitting on the bench at the train station and looks at the camera, I am fairly sure she has the bag from the shop, complete with store logo, placed beside her so the logo (and possibly the name of the store) would be visible to anybody watching the video. So, I believe she is not only laying bread crumbs, she's laying a very detailed path with road signs of bread crumbs. Anyone watching that video and recognizing her would be able to figure out not only what city she is in, but the stores she frequents.

Edited June 7, 2015 by BookWoman56

[penelope79]

I don't remember, did Hannibal say that Dante was accusing della Vigna of treason? Because Dante put him with the suicides, not with the traitors. Which I guess it means Dante thought della Vigna wasn't a traitor.

Yes, that's correct. IIRC though, Hannibal was not denying it, he was just telling the audience about Judas and Pier Delle Vigne who killed themselves (though, technically, we still don't know if Pier Delle Vigne committed suicide) after they betrayed two important figures such as Jesus and Emperor Frederick II, respectively. But he looked at Bedelia a couple of times when he was talking. Hence I had the impression that he was not-so-subtly warning her: she betrays him and she'll end up like Judas and Pier Delle Vigne, i.e. either he'll manipulate her to the point she kills herself or he'll kill her and make it look like a suicide (but in a way he can still taste her: he's Hannibal Lecter, after all! :D).

But that's just my take on that scene.

Re: Hannibal and Bedelia being married, I think they're just pretending: am I wrong?

[lulee]

Yes, just pretending to be married. There's been no indication that they're actually married.

[pasdetrois]

I'll tolerate the prolonged film school artistry for one or two episodes. I often am rhapsodic at this kind of thing; loved the imagery in Wolf Hall.

 

But the long periods between Hannibal seasons and my appreciation of the Will and Jack characters (and actors), not to mention the kooky FBI lab techs, leave me with a need for the continuation of that story.

 

I can't quite put my finger on it, but Mads' portrayal of Hannibal in this first episode seems kind of remote and checked-out. The flat intonation doesn't help. (But I loved his teeny subtle little snit about earning his new job.) Maybe I'm just missing the connection, however sadistic, he had with Will and Jack. The only time we see any trace of humanity in Hannibal's eyes is when he smiles and enjoys someone else's torment. I don't see the chemistry between Mads and Gillian.

 

I'm not a GA fan, but I appreciate the role her character plays in relation to the abomination that is Hannibal. It was weird that in one scene the lighting made her look "old," otherwise she is ethereally beautiful.

 

I actually laughed out loud when she appeared in that turquoise 70s Super Fly get-up.

Edited June 7, 2015 by pasdetrois