Race & Ethnicity On TV

[Raja]

8 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I don't know, I would watch both. Didn't Fresh Off the Boat face similar anger before it aired?

Also don't know why I would give cable shows the benefit of the doubt. Their diversity is way worse than network. 

The Mail Order Family treatment starts with the prejudice that the stepmom didn't have the right to refusal and was actually able to be shipped to America as a slave instead of the daddy choosing her picture in a catalog to buy contact information about. A show about a slave plays much differently than immigrants moving into  a boom town without contact to their ethnic society. Now based on a true story of a writer whose father left for another family in the Philippines leaving stepmom, the slave according to the activist, and his kids behind is as tough  nut to crack into wacky comedy, just as with Eddie saying his parents abused him and his brothers, and you should be showing that which ABC declined to do

[galax-arena]

I read a few of Jackie Clarke's blog posts before she made it private, and the woman has some serious pathological issues with Asian women. So I have my doubts that Mail Order Family would have been anything except horrifically racist. 

This is a line from her blog: "An Asian woman is as close as you can get to a boy without a weiner."

Edited October 2, 2016 by galax-arena

[phoenics]

I cannot believe a show like that even halfway made it to production.  Just deplorable.

[selkie]

It actually sounds slightly less horrible than I Married Dora

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Married_Dora

[ribboninthesky1]

And the last episode shown apparently included scenes where the father was abandoning the family to go overseas.  Yikes! As the saying goes, the more things change, the more they stay the same. 

5 hours ago, galax-arena said:

I read a few of Jackie Clarke's blog posts before she made it private, and the woman has some serious pathological issues with Asian women. So I have my doubts that Mail Order Family would have been anything except horrifically racist. 

This is a line from her blog: "An Asian woman is as close as you can get to a boy without a weiner."

Wow.  And really, a white woman is the LAST person to be riffing on another woman's body shape.  

To phoenics' point, it is galling that this was even greenlighted. 

[Raja]

39 minutes ago, selkie said:

It actually sounds slightly less horrible than I Married Dora

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Married_Dora

It wasn't horrible, I feel in love with Elizabeth Pena and then she came back into my life on Shannon's Deal. . In any case that was closer to the movie Green Card where the INS was investigating a fraudulent marriage.

[Raja]

Coming back to I Married Dora, remember the civil war in El Salvador was raging at the time of the show. The concept was closer to what if Hazel, Aunt Bea from The Andy Griffith Show, Alice from The Brady Bunch, Mrs Livingston from The Courtship Of Eddie's Father.... were going to be deported into a war and the dad decided to marry her to save her and keep the family together. The show was just cancelled before all the romantic comedy boxes could be checked and they ended up a real couple with more than just love for the children in common. They didn't have the time The Nanny had to fall in love but the network let them know in time to produce a finale so they came up with daddy being transferred and the maid/legal wife being left behind with the kids while the INS was still trying to prove fraud 

[topanga]

I'm really enjoying This Is Us. And what's interesting is that Sterling K Brown's family isn't treated like "the black family." In fact, the only time Randall's race is discussed is when he's a child and has to deal with being the adopted black son in a white family. 

[jhlipton]

On 10/2/2016 at 0:26 AM, memememe76 said:

[D]on't know why I would give cable shows the benefit of the doubt. Their diversity is way worse than network. 

SyFy is one of the best.  Z Nation is led by a black woman; The Expanse has a black woman lead; Dark Matters has a WoC lead, an Asian male lead (who gets sexy-times), a black male leas and as black woman regular.  I believe that one of the three leads on Killjoys is a WoC, as well.

The premiere show on AMC, The Walking Dead has a black female lead. 

[Rlb8031]

Just curious what folks reactions are to the "Luke Cage is too black" commentary. I think Marvel hit it spot on, but I'm seeing a surprising (or not-so-surprising) amount of backlash from nerds who can't get past the "but no one looks like meeeeeeeee..." stage to actually watch the show.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Rlb8031
not what I wanted to post

[ribboninthesky1]

I thought some of the early dialogue was too blaxpoitation, which is more of a anachronistic complaint than "it's too black." If the show was set in the 70s, that's one thing.  But dialogue paired with the contemporary setting didn't work for me at all. 

Otherwise, I think the black cultural touch-points made it more grounded and real, and to a large extent, more watchable than Daredevil or Jessica Jones.   

Edited October 4, 2016 by ribboninthesky1

[DeLurker]

Mail Order Family is already canceled...because social media had to tell NBC is was offensive? 

News Flash NBC - Water is wet.

[Silver Raven]

There were complaints about the Luke Cage previews where he's shot wearing a hoodie.  People were comparing it to Trayvon Martin.

[Rlb8031]

I think some of the dialogue was a call-out to the comic fans of Luke Cage. When you read the title now, it seems extremely dated, but for his time it was perfectly in keeping with that blaxploitation  dialogue of the early 70's.  They were trying to make it modern without completely re-writing Luke and his motivations.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Rlb8031

[ribboninthesky1]

For me, there's a fine line to balance with homage, especially for those like me who know little to nothing about the comic.  I assume TPTB knew that dialogue wouldn't work with the modern setting of the show, as they backed off of it fairly quickly. There's a way to incorporate speech cadence common among some blacks in a natural way - for example, the conversation between Misty and the new Inspector about Mariah being her soror.    

[jhlipton]

9 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

Just curious what folks reactions are to the "Luke Cage is too black" commentary. I think Marvel hit it spot on, but I'm seeing a surprising (or not-so-surprising) amount of backlash from nerds who can't get past the "but no one looks like meeeeeeeee..." stage to actually watch the show.

"What's 'white privilege', daddy?"

[jhlipton]

I don't know how long it will last, but SyFy's Z Nation just added a Chinese woman and an Inuit family to the cast.

[DearEvette]

19 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

There were complaints about the Luke Cage previews where he's shot wearing a hoodie.  People were comparing it to Trayvon Martin.

I think that was intentional.  I saw complaints, but I also saw a lot of nods at the subtext.

On 10/4/2016 at 10:56 AM, Rlb8031 said:

Just curious what folks reactions are to the "Luke Cage is too black" commentary. I think Marvel hit it spot on, but I'm seeing a surprising (or not-so-surprising) amount of backlash from nerds who can't get past the "but no one looks like meeeeeeeee..." stage to actually watch the show.

Honestly I think some of it is outright trolling. But where it isn't trolling it is simple blind privilege in action.

But hey,  Netflix is releasing their  Gilmore Girls reboot soon.  That is peak whiteness right there, maybe some of the people who think Luke Cage is too black will be appeased?

[topanga]

5 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I think that was intentional.  I saw complaints, but I also saw a lot of nods at the subtext.

Honestly I think some of it is outright trolling. But where it isn't trolling it is simple blind privilege in action.

But hey,  Netflix is releasing their  Gilmore Girls reboot soon.  That is peak whiteness right there, maybe some of the people who think Luke Cage is too black will be appeased?

But hey, ______ network is releasing [almost every show on TV] soon. That is peak whiteness right there. 

SMH  "Why are there so many black people on that ONE show?" is like, "Why do all of the black kids sit together in the cafeteria?"

[Rlb8031]

To which the only appropriate answer is "Why don't you sit with them and find out?"

The more I watch it, the more I'm falling in love with the fact that they hit the tone of casual conversation exactly right - the whole discussion about Easy Rollins vs. Kenyatta was just so authentic to me.

[DearEvette]

Yes.  I loved that scene.  I mean, come on!  Black men in a barbershop talking about writers one of whom is Donald Goins?  And they speak of him alongside such mainstream popular names as Lehane & Pelecanos! And you are correct, the tone was so authentic that it was the same conversational tone they have when speaking about the pros and cons of various sports teams.

[zxy556575]

4 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Honestly I think some of it is outright trolling. But where it isn't trolling it is simple blind privilege in action.

Not having seen any of the commentary doesn't stop me from speculating that maybe "too black" means "so culturally specific that I don't understand many of the references"? It's perhaps a less offensive critique that way but still a specious argument. Pointing a lens to show ways of living that are "unlike me" is how we learn.

I'm not any more familiar with Harlem than residents there probably are with my small town North Dakota, but I'm glad to hear that many of the "street level" scenes in Luke Cage ring true. For better or worse, I have been developing more of a sense of the place from watching the show.

[jhlipton]

8 hours ago, DearEvette said:

But hey,  Netflix is releasing their  Gilmore Girls reboot soon.  That is peak whiteness right there, maybe some of the people who think Luke Cage is too black will be appeased?

Bless your heart..

3 hours ago, lordonia said:

Not having seen any of the commentary doesn't stop me from speculating that maybe "too black" means "so culturally specific that I don't understand many of the references"?

It would be nice if that's what they were saying.  But somehow, with maybe one or two honest exceptions, I really tend to doubt it.

Edited October 6, 2016 by jhlipton

[BoogieBurns]

Leaked TV star salaries reveal pay gap between white actors and actors of color. Tim Allen makes 3X what Tracee Ellis Ross makes with half the ratings on the same network. The LOWEST paid female comedy star is Gina Rodriguez, of Jane the Virgin! That's insane to me because she is the only reason I watch that Network much less the show.

[Moose135]

6 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

Tim Allen makes 3X what Tracee Ellis Ross makes with half the ratings on the same network.

I don't know if that's a fair comparison to use - between Home Improvement and the Toy Story movies, I would think Allen is a bigger name, and can command a higher salary going into a project, regardless of what the current ratings happen to be.

[BoogieBurns]

2 minutes ago, Moose135 said:

I don't know if that's a fair comparison to use - between Home Improvement and the Toy Story movies, I would think Allen is a bigger name, and can command a higher salary going into a project, regardless of what the current ratings happen to be.

They mention all of that in the article, it's a quick read. Of course he had more clout going in. I just pointed out one of many, mostly because she was nominated for an Emmy, and was the lead in a successful show herself. Last Man Standing hasn't had any critical acclaim that I know of.

But Viola Davis and Kerry Washington both make about 60% of what Ellen Pompeo makes. They are on the same channel, same night, same boss, and equal or higher name recognition. Another one where you can explain your way around it, but the numbers are what they are. 

[zxy556575]

I'm annoyed on Gina Rodriguez's behalf. I wonder how much of the discrepancy is due to better representation? Be interesting to see another column with the name of each person's agent/agency. Are there many minorities working as agents and managers?

[ribboninthesky1]

I'm surprised that Kerry Washington isn't closer to Pompeo's salary; then again, Grey's Anatomy has been on the air for over 10 seasons. I do think it's kind of bizarre of the author to dismiss Washington's film work in comparison to Viola Davis - as far as I know, they were both primarily in film before transitioning to TV.  In any case, from a comedy perspective, I think a better comparison is Tracee and Patricia Heaton.  Heaton isn't exactly what I would call a household name, and The Middle's ratings aren't significant compared to Black-ish's. 

I wonder what minority actors on long-running shows like Greg's Anatomy make in comparison to Pompeo.  For example, Chandra Wilson has been there from the beginning as well - what's her salary? What was Sandra Oh making before she left? How much are white actors in a similar genre with equivalent seasons making in comparison to shows with mostly minority casts and much higher ratings, like Empire? How much is Laura German being paid in comparison to what Nicole Beharie was making? I mention the latter two because they were on shows on the same network with parallel set ups. 

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, BoogieBurns said:

Leaked TV star salaries reveal pay gap between white actors and actors of color. Tim Allen makes 3X what Tracee Ellis Ross makes with half the ratings on the same network. The LOWEST paid female comedy star is Gina Rodriguez, of Jane the Virgin! That's insane to me because she is the only reason I watch that Network much less the show.

There is probably something there when it comes to pay discrepency and race.  This article doesn't do a very good job at making a compelling argument.  They do a pretty bad job at controlling for other factors in their comparisons.

Take this:

On the list of comedy salaries, the lowest paid star is Gina Rodriguez, whose role in Jane the Virgin won her the Golden Globe for Best Actress in a Comedy in 2015, over multi-time Emmy winner and fellow nominee Julia Louis-Dreyfus. Yet Rodriguez, according to Variety ’s data, earns $60,000 an episode, while Louis-Dreyfus earns more than quadruple that figure: $250,000 an episode. Rodriguez is a relative newcomer to the industry compared to Louis-Dreyfus, so one cannot expect her to command the same fee, but her awards credentials should count for something.

It acknowledges that JLD has been in the industry longer than Gina but the argument conveniently ignores that JLD has won 6 lead actress Emmys and one supporting actress Emmy.  And Emmys are more respected in the industry than Globe wins.  So awards do count for something--when negotiating. Gina's probably a year or two away from renegotiation.

And that's another problem with the comparisons.  So much of the comparing is done between a name actor with tons of industry experience and a newbie or a star whose show has gone through renegotiation because it has been on for years to someone in a relatively new show.  For most, having a show that lasts long enough for renegotiation is where the money is.

26 minutes ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

 Heaton isn't exactly what I would call a household name, and The Middle's ratings aren't significant compared to Black-ish's. 

Heaton was on Everybody Loves Raymond for years. Household name?  I don't know but I think more would recognize her than Tracy Ellis Ross.  The Middle earned comparable ratings to Blackish, maybe even slightly higher, in the timeslot that opened the night.  Blackish got those ratings with a Modern Family lead in.  The Middle is also in its seventh season and has had contract renegotiations.

Like I said, there is probably something there but the article is kind of sloppy.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Irlandesa

[DearEvette]

My take away is that if you can, get on a Netflix or HBO show.  Cuz damn!  They have deep pockets.  Do Lauren Graham and Alexi Bleidel really deserve 750,000 for a reboot of a 10 year old show?

I find it depressing hat Anthony Anderson makes more than Tracee.  She, imo, is the best part of Blackish.

[paulvdb]

But Anthony Anderson is probably a bigger name. And he is a man. Men are almost always paid more than women in Hollywood.

[DeLurker]

Not just in Hollywood.

[galax-arena]

Quote

 

It acknowledges that JLD has been in the industry longer than Gina but the argument conveniently ignores that JLD has won 6 lead actress Emmys and one supporting actress Emmy.  And Emmys are more respected in the industry than Globe wins.  So awards do count for something--when negotiating. Gina's probably a year or two away from renegotiation.

Yeah, and another thing to consider is that Gina's on a CW show. I got the impression that CW shows don't pay much in general because they're kind of a struggling network. And Jane the Virgin in particular suffers from really low ratings, so as much as the CW wants to keep the show around now because it's a critical darling, I don't know if they can justify paying her a huge salary. 

I'm not discounting that racism exists within the Hollywood payscale (even if indirectly; we say that JLD's better pay is warranted because she has more accolades, but that leads into the idea that white actors are more rewarded than POC actors), but IA that this article was sloppy. It'd have been better to compare Gina to a white actress on a similarly low-rated show on the CW. Maybe someone from Reign? Or Crazy Ex-Girlfriend? Not sure about the ratings for the last one, but it'd still be a good comparison because Rachel Bloom won a Golden Globe, too. I think Supergirl has higher ratings - the CW's superhero shows in general (plus Supernatural) seem to be saving the network, which is something I'm not happy about, but that's neither here nor there - but it'd still be interesting to see how Melissa Benoist's pay compares to Gina's.

ETA: I like to joke that the surest sign that racism is a huge problem in Hollywood is that [insert horrible white A-list actor of your choice] has a better career than John Cho. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by galax-arena

[paulvdb]

Supergirl was originally on CBS for its first season, so Melissa Benoist would be paid based on a CBS payscale. And I don't think they could just lower her pay after moving to the CW. Besides, the CW president said that he expects Supergirl to be one of their top three shows so ratings expectations are higher for Supergirl than Jane the Virgin. Actresses from Reign and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend are probably a better comparison for Gina Rodriguez. Those shows have comparable ratings.

[paulvdb]

I checked the lists in the original Variety article and it seems that Empire at least does not discriminate against women. Taraji P. Henson and Terrence Howard both get 175000 per episode. And if Empire stays a hit they will probably get more when their contracts are up for renegotiation.

And for comparison between two women on similarly rated shows on the same network: Kristen Bell (The Good Place) and America Ferrera (Superstore) both get 125000 per episode on NBC. That is significantly less than Bell's male co-star Ted Danson but that is of course also because Danson is a bigger name. He was after all one of the stars of Cheers.

[DearEvette]

4 hours ago, paulvdb said:

But Anthony Anderson is probably a bigger name. And he is a man. Men are almost always paid more than women in Hollywood.

 

3 hours ago, DeLurker said:

Not just in Hollywood.

Which is why it is so depressing.

[topanga]

39 minutes ago, paulvdb said:

I checked the lists in the original Variety article and it seems that Empire at least does not discriminate against women. Taraji P. Henson and Terrence Howard both get 175000 per episode. And if Empire stays a hit they will probably get more when their contracts are up for renegotiation.

And for comparison between two women on similarly rated shows on the same network: Kristen Bell (The Good Place) and America Ferrera (Superstore) both get 125000 per episode on NBC. That is significantly less than Bell's male co-star Ted Danson but that is of course also because Danson is a bigger name. He was after all one of the stars of Cheers.

But Kristen Bell is the star of this show. Yes, Danson might be the bigger star, but I'm sure Kristen works more than he does on The Good Place. Doesn't that count for anything? 

I'd say the same thing for Empire. I haven't watched the show since the first season, but even then, Cookie quickly became the star of the show. Maybe their contracts were already nailed down by then.

Glad to see America doing fairly well on her show. 

[ribboninthesky1]

4 hours ago, paulvdb said:

But Anthony Anderson is probably a bigger name. And he is a man. Men are almost always paid more than women in Hollywood.

Mileage likely varies on this, but I'd argue that Tracee Ellis-Ross was the more well-known of the two.  Being a man presumably tipped the pay scale in his favor.

I've never found Anderson funny, so I couldn't hang with Black-ish for very long.  But of what I did see, I'd have to agree with DearEvette in that Ellis-Ross was the standout. 

The irony: if the trick to higher pay is to be the "bigger name," that still puts minority actors at a significant disadvantage because 1) there's a much smaller chance of headlining a show and 2) to have that show do well enough in the mainstream ratings. 

[Moose135]

4 minutes ago, topanga said:

But Kristen Bell is the star of this show. Yes, Danson might be the bigger star, but I'm sure Kristen works more than he does on The Good Place. Doesn't that count for anything?

Not when it comes to viewer eyeballs and advertising dollars.

[proserpina65]

15 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

They mention all of that in the article, it's a quick read. Of course he had more clout going in. I just pointed out one of many, mostly because she was nominated for an Emmy, and was the lead in a successful show herself. Last Man Standing hasn't had any critical acclaim that I know of.

But Viola Davis and Kerry Washington both make about 60% of what Ellen Pompeo makes. They are on the same channel, same night, same boss, and equal or higher name recognition. Another one where you can explain your way around it, but the numbers are what they are. 

Grey's Anatomy has been on the air much, much longer - that gave EP a lot of clout when negotiating her most recent contract.  I'd say KW, at the very least, needs to get her agent working on that since Scandal has proven itself pretty well by now.  Viola Davis' contract probably hasn't been up for renegotiation yet.  (I couldn't bring myself to just use her initials.)

Edited October 6, 2016 by proserpina65

[manbearpig]

I do think Washington and Davis are more recognisable names than Pompeo, but Grey's Anatomy is doing better than both Scandal and How To Get Away With Murder, and it is a much older show that is in reruns. Who knows how well Scandal and HTGAWM would do in syndication since they're both so heavily serialised. I'm sure Washington and Davis got paid a lot more for the first seasons of their shows than Pompeo did, though.

[Silver Raven]

3 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Mileage likely varies on this, but I'd argue that Tracee Ellis-Ross was the more well-known of the two.  Being a man presumably tipped the pay scale in his favor.

I knew nothing of Tracee Ellis-Ross other than her mother, but I certainly knew Anthony Anderson.

[Raja]

3 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

I knew nothing of Tracee Ellis-Ross other than her mother, but I certainly knew Anthony Anderson.

Well Tracee Ellis-Ross had a network comedy Girlfriends but it was considered a FUBU show while Anthony Anderson was mostly a supporting character on crossover shows before getting the junior detective gig on Law & Order's last years

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

Well Tracee Ellis-Ross had a network comedy Girlfriends but it was considered a FUBU show while Anthony Anderson was mostly a supporting character on crossover shows before getting the junior detective gig on Law & Order's last years

Oh, Anthony is also a producer of blackish, so that is possibly included in the total. 

I didn't write the article, yes it was messy, and like I said, you could talk your way around a lot of examples. But, there is still something to it. It may not be fair to compare Ellen Pompeo to Viola Davis, but that was all we were given to work with here. It's more about a conversation. I think the lesson here is to make your own content and then star in it. That is the ONLY reason Rachel Bloom is making more than Gina Rodriguez. Because that is Rachel's show. Same for Anthony making more than Tracee, he was there from Day 1. 

Gilmore Girls are an outlier. They are making 4 episodes that are 90 minutes each with over a year's worth of anticipation. They aren't making $750,000 per episode of a 22 episode season. They are making 3mil. The Big Bang Theory nerds are making 22mil.

[jhlipton]

5 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

But of what I did see, I'd have to agree with DearEvette in that Ellis-Ross was the standout.

Easy stuff first.  There is no doubt in my mind that minorities are paid less than whites, and women are paid less than men. 

One good example could be Katia Winter, Tom Mison and Nicole Beharie for Season 1 of Sleepy Hollow.  None of the three were household names.  Beharie might have edged out the other two by her work in 42 and Shameless (Winter was in a much smaller role in a smaller movie), but their "starting points" should have been about the same.

Ellis-Ross is funnier than Anderson, but Deon Cole ("Charlie") and Marsai Martin ("Diane") are the breakout stars.

2 hours ago, Raja said:

Well Tracee Ellis-Ross had a network comedy Girlfriends but it was considered a FUBU show while Anthony Anderson was mostly a supporting character on crossover shows before getting the junior detective gig on Law & Order's last years

Anderson was the main antagonist of fourth season and a secondary antagonist of the fifth season of The Shield.

[Lady Calypso]

On 10/4/2016 at 10:56 AM, Rlb8031 said:

Just curious what folks reactions are to the "Luke Cage is too black" commentary. I think Marvel hit it spot on, but I'm seeing a surprising (or not-so-surprising) amount of backlash from nerds who can't get past the "but no one looks like meeeeeeeee..." stage to actually watch the show.

I definitely dislike this line of thinking. There are some people who don't understand. Now, it's taking me longer to get into Luke Cage (I am still on the second episode), but Daredevil S1 was the exact same way. It took me about....two-three months to get through the first season. I just found it so slow, boring, and nothing appealed to me. Jessica Jones and Daredevil S2 moved a lot faster for me so I was more engaged. But I'm not going to just not watch Luke Cage because it's "too black", which is a really dumb excuse/reason. People just need to be open to give it a chance. 

[Chaos Theory]

33 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I definitely dislike this line of thinking. There are some people who don't understand. Now, it's taking me longer to get into Luke Cage (I am still on the second episode), but Daredevil S1 was the exact same way. It took me about....two-three months to get through the first season. I just found it so slow, boring, and nothing appealed to me. Jessica Jones and Daredevil S2 moved a lot faster for me so I was more engaged. But I'm not going to just not watch Luke Cage because it's "too black", which is a really dumb excuse/reason. People just need to be open to give it a chance. 

Normally I don't comment on things like this because honestly there is no point.  Being white it took me some times to connect to an almost entirely black cast but there were always characters I did like and when certain allusions finally hit me they hit me hard.  Probably did take me longer to "get it" like the allusion of a black man literally bulletproof in the age of BLM America and him wearing a bullet ridden hoodie was quite evocative.   Again I usually stay far away from discussing race unless I have to but it wasn't race that made Luke Cage so far the least interesting to the Marvil movies for me.    It was the lack of action and maybe the big bad villain being the least interesting character Netflix Marvil has ever created.   That being said I can see how many people would like it.  The actors however were for the most part top shelf and the first half was actually better then the second.  

[Kromm]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

Normally I don't comment on things like this because honestly there is no point.  Being white it took me some times to connect to an almost entirely black cast but there were always characters I did like and when certain allusions finally hit me they hit me hard.  Probably did take me longer to "get it" like the allusion of a black man literally bulletproof in the age of BLM America and him wearing a bullet ridden hoodie was quite evocative.

Well enough done it shouldn't matter.  A good writer, actors and director can overcome that. You may not on a gut level have the same perspective on what it means as a black man to always fear being shot, but the very fact that you realized it with a little thought means it was done with at least a little care (and perhaps at worst needed to nudge the needle a tiny bit further on how overt the message was if people by and large ARE having trouble seeing it). Of course, as you pointed out, there are other problems with the show, but I don't see it's racial aspect as impenetrable to anyone. 

If someone's main experience with an all black cast is a Tyler Perry movie, or a shitty 90s UPN sitcom, then I could see going into Luck Cage with some trepidation about how much you could identify with it. But Superheroes, even violent street level ones, have a universal aspirational aspect. It's probably more comparable to if someone's been able to get into a decent Blacksploitation movie in the past (only far less over the top). It's a fantasy that should have extra meaning to black people, because of who the character is and where he's supposed to be from, but we all understand the basic ideas of being downtrodden and disadvantaged, even if not all on the same level.

On 10/4/2016 at 10:56 AM, Rlb8031 said:

Just curious what folks reactions are to the "Luke Cage is too black" commentary. I think Marvel hit it spot on, but I'm seeing a surprising (or not-so-surprising) amount of backlash from nerds who can't get past the "but no one looks like meeeeeeeee..." stage to actually watch the show.

We should call it "blacklash", not "backlash"!

[allyw]

8 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Grey's Anatomy has been on the air much, much longer - that gave EP a lot of clout when negotiating her most recent contract.  I'd say KW, at the very least, needs to get her agent working on that since Scandal has proven itself pretty well by now.  Viola Davis' contract probably hasn't been up for renegotiation yet.  (I couldn't bring myself to just use her initials.)

IIRC Kerry started out low only making $75,000 and then there were reports that she had an increase to either $100,000 or $150,000 somewhere between seasons 2 and 3 when Scandal's ratings began increasing so she has renegotiated her contract a couple of times since the beginning of the show. 

[xaxat]

On 10/4/2016 at 10:56 AM, Rlb8031 said:

Just curious what folks reactions are to the "Luke Cage is too black" commentary. I think Marvel hit it spot on, but I'm seeing a surprising (or not-so-surprising) amount of backlash from nerds who can't get past the "but no one looks like meeeeeeeee..." stage to actually watch the show.

This criticism is ridiculous. The whole concept of Luke Cage and his appeal is that he is a black man (from Harlem) in America who happens to be a superhero. He's not a POC analog to an existing white hero. (Iron Patriot) He's not a sidekick (Falcon). And he's not a character from Africa that makes it easier to write an ahistorical perspective of the POC experience in America. (Storm, Black Panther).

He's a black dude, from Harlem.

And if people think that's an alienating concept then they need to get out more.