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Race & Ethnicity On TV

callie lee 29

By callie lee 29
in Everything Else TV

Meredith Quill
Message added by Meredith Quill,

This is the place to discuss race and ethnicity issues related to TV shows only.

Go here for the equivalent movie discussions.

For general discussion without TV/Film context please use the Social Justice topic in Everything Else. 

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jhlipton
jhlipton

I have a lot of friends who are very active in working against racism and sexism and not a single one hates whites or men.  White male ego is so fragile that two women of color on the latest Star Trek

Trini
Trini

I mean, sure; but it would be weird to have everyone on TV look like this:   I personally like seeing people of different ethnicities in my entertainment.

DearEvette
DearEvette

Megyn Kelly doesn't have the charm or charisma to attract a morning talk show audience or any sort of positive attention.  The only time she gets any attention is when she does something execrable.

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DearEvette

DearEvette

I legit had no idea Meghan Markle was biracial til they cast Wendell Pierce as her father.  I later found an article on her with this quote:

 

They smile and nod politely, maybe even chuckle, before getting to their point, ‘Right, but what are you? Where are your parents from?’ I knew it was coming, I always do. While I could say Pennsylvania and Ohio, and continue this proverbial two-step, I instead give them what they’re after: ‘My dad is Caucasian and my mom is African American. I’m half black and half white.’

 

 

The whole article is a real succint breakdown of how she navigates issues and questions of identity and how being biracial affected her as she was growing up and now as an actor in Hollywood.  Her parents sound very smart and lovely.  And she very much acknowledges that in some ways it is advantageous being racially ambiguous when it comes to casting, however in other ways it is a frustration for her as well. 

 

She also praised Suits for casting Wendell Pierce as her father, acknowledging that they could have cast differently since up to that point there had been nothing really signalling Rachel's racial identity as anything other than white. 

 

Personally I get the impression that the Suits folks use their actors' personal lives to inform their fictional characters given that they have cast Gabrial Macht's wife and Patrick J Adams' fiancee on the show.

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Wax Lion

Wax Lion

With some of the recent controversies about PoC characters being played by white actors (like Emma Stone in Aloha) I'm surprised no one has tried casting someone like Troian Bellasario or Wentworth Miller, a biracial actor who mostly gets cast as white characters. Seems like a simple solution but I guess the directors involved are still too clueless to see the issue, or (probably) to be aware that these actors have a background more complicated than white.

 

This seems a good point to note that Agents of SHIELD did a good job with Chloe Bennett's background.

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cynic

cynic

I can see why the moderator didn't want to continue this discussion over in the Married at First Sight forums.

I think we've gone way off-topic and are also in beating a dead horse territory.

Anyhoo...

Watching Scorpion last night, it struck me how they are handling their lead's ethnic ambiguity. Elyes Gabel doesn't appear to be full European white. If I had to guess from his looks, I would think he's mixed with some Indian, but I really have no idea. I don't think he has addressed his ethnicity. He plays a character based on a real life person who is Irish. His parents in the flashback as well as the actor who plays his younger self appear to be white. The actress that plays his adult sister is Cuban and Puerto Rican. I wonder if this is by design or if it's true colorblind casting.

Ronin Jackson

Ronin Jackson

(edited)

 

When you boil it all down, the only reason for increased diversity on television is because the executives understand they can make money off of it. There had been very little diversity because they thought the middle America white audience would not watch programming that wasn't predominantly white, but they're coming around to recognizing that the demographics are changing and there's enough people out there (of all races, including white) who will watch and even gravitate towards diverse programming, offsetting those who turn away from it for that reason (on another forum there was the case being made that the increased diversity on television is "social engineering", so clearly those people still exist). That's why it's important for us, as consumers, to support these shows. I've actually been making a point of watching some of these shows on Hulu, and I'm actually just clicking on them and letting them run without watching them because in some cases, I'm not really that big a fan of the show itself. But those "views" become data that the executives look at.

 

Movies seem to be progressing at a much slower rate, but if things continute change on TV and it's established that money can be made... even the movie executives may waver a bit from their "good ol' boys" stance.

Edited by Ronin Jackson
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Bella

Bella

I can see why the moderator didn't want to continue this discussion over in the Married at First Sight forums.

I think we've gone way off-topic and are also in beating a dead horse territory.

 

 

Exactly.

 

MAFS people, I directed you over here to clean up the spoiler thread and to enable a more focused discussion. I didn't send you over here to have a bickerfest or to compare which group suffered worse.

 

Stop it.

 

Warnings will be forthcoming if it continues.

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Wax Lion

Wax Lion

There had been very little diversity because they thought the middle America white audience would not watch programming that wasn't predominantly white, but they're coming around to recognizing that the demographics are changing and there's enough people out there (of all races, including white) who will watch and even gravitate towards diverse programming, offsetting those who turn away from it for that reason

 

I had an ex-roommate tell me about how his parents were puzzled by his interest in watching Good Times as a kid, telling him "But you're not black, you don't have any black friends." (Oddly I, too, had to fight with my parents to watch Good Times though I have no idea why since they let me watch the Jeffersons.)

 

Back in the days of Kyle XY, the head of ABC Family talked about how the network (which had just introduced its new motto "A different kind of family") was deliberately pursuing diversity because their target audience grew up with diversity and expected that on their TV. That included PoC characters but also reflecting non-traditional families. The network got increasingly diverse from there and it was quickly beating the CW in the ratings, back when the CW was mostly shows like 90210 and Gossip GIrl. (For a network aimed at young audiences, the CW was always oddly slow to keep up with change. I suspect that the CBS co-ownership.)

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Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

Grandfathered just cast Regina Hall (who I know from the Scary Movie franchise) as John Stamos' love interest. That puts them at 3 black ladies in their upcoming episodes, 2 of them regulars. I'm just so happy that this little show is keeping things diverse. 

 

 

Also age appropriate.

 

Then again, Paget Brewster is the same age as Hall, forty-five, so Grandfathered has actually done a fair job of casting age-appropriate (which is a term I'm really starting to hate, btw) ladies for John Stamos to associate with.

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DearEvette

DearEvette

Yeah, Paget Brewster is definitely age appropriate for Stamos, but the show has put her in a romantic nostalgia zone.  All the women that they have Jimmy date on the show have all been young, vapid starlet types.  Since he has discovered he has a grown son, one of his played for laugh worries is that one of his hook-ups might actually turn out to be a long lost daughter.  One episode cold open was with him about to have sexy times with one of his very young dates he started asking her questions about how well she knew her father. 

 

So it is nice to actually have them give him a present love interest who is the total opposite of what they've shown him interested in til now.  Extra points go to color-blind casting.  Like BoogieBurns said the show already has two black regular female characters.  And they are  wildly different from each other and who have shared scenes that pass the Bechdel test. 

 

i can't wait to see Annalise's reaction to Jimmy's new love interest.

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topanga

topanga

Grandfathered just cast Regina Hall (who I know from the Scary Movie franchise) as John Stamos' love interest. That puts them at 3 black ladies in their upcoming episodes, 2 of them regulars. I'm just so happy that this little show is keeping things diverse. 

 

Then again, Paget Brewster is the same age as Hall, forty-five, so Grandfathered has actually done a fair job of casting age-appropriate (which is a term I'm really starting to hate, btw) ladies for John Stamos to associate with.

I've never watched Grandfathered, but these two points make me want to check it out. Just promise me that John Stamos won't be showing his butt on TV

jhlipton

jhlipton

(edited)

Grandfathered just cast Regina Hall (who I know from the Scary Movie franchise) as John Stamos' love interest. That puts them at 3 black ladies in their upcoming episodes, 2 of them regulars. I'm just so happy that this little show is keeping things diverse. 

 

Like topanga, this intrigued me, so I decided to check it out.  Yuck.  Even the hot black women, none of which seems to be a stereotype, isn't enough to get me to watch this mess.  I think Jake on Brooklyn 99 has spoiled my for the man-child trope.

Edited by jhlipton
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Raja

Raja

I noted this in the Agent Carter forum and I will spoiler just in case: 

The show cast Reggie Austin as a possible love interest for Peggy. Will they acknowledge that it will be a thing in 1947 or will they ignore it.?

The MCU has ignored all real life racial attitudes from the introduction of an integrated 1942 US Army in Captain America The First Avenger and Andre Royo playing a hood/club owner in Agent Carter's first season who was about to have sex with a blond women without a peep. The only notice of race in the MCU has been first Dum Dum Dugan noticing that one of the Howling Commandos then prisoners of Hydra/Nazis was of Japanese ancestry in The First Avenger and then Director Fury making a crack about driving while black in The Winter Soldier. 

 

Besides showing what was about to be interracial sex with no reaction from any character they also had Asian and black cops and government agents rolling around 1946 New York and Europe with no question of their authority.After ignoring the elephant it would be difficult to reintroduce it baring a high profile actor like Samuel L Jackson who can't be recast introducing it as an ablib

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JBC344

JBC344

I think it's kind of funny that we are celebrating "age-appropriate" casting with 52 year old Stamos and 45 year old actresses. If the lead was a 52 year old woman and her love interests were 45, we'd be celebrating an older woman/younger man coupling on TV.

Sure, why not.  I would.  Are you implying that a 45 year old woman isn't "age-appropriate" to a 52 year old man? Or are you commenting on the fact that they are age appropriate but not when the woman is the 52 year old?

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mansonlamps

mansonlamps

Sure, why not.  I would.  Are you implying that a 45 year old woman isn't "age-appropriate" to a 52 year old man? Or are you commenting on the fact that they are age appropriate but not when the woman is the 52 year old?

I'm not implying anything. I find it amusing that 52/45 is generally labeled age appropriate when it's M/F and cougarish when it's F/M.

In all honesty I would be just as likely to believe that a guy with Stamos's looks and success would be dating someone much younger than 45 just because he could. And who am I to say that's not age appropriate?

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JBC344

JBC344

I'm not implying anything. I find it amusing that 52/45 is generally labeled age appropriate when it's M/F and cougarish when it's F/M.

In all honesty I would be just as likely to believe that a guy with Stamos's looks and success would be dating someone much younger than 45 just because he could. And who am I to say that's not age appropriate?

Interesting.  I always interpreted "cougar" to mean an older woman who dates a much younger man.  I would never think to call a 52 year old woman who dates a 45 year old a cougar.  Learn something new everyday.

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Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

 

Huh. Interesting that he says he gets more scripts from the States than from England, since supposedly the industry over here won't even consider people of color for roles. I was also under the impression that British television was more diverse than that over here, since someone elsewhere on the forums said that the English don't talk as much about casting POC.

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cynic

cynic

Huh. Interesting that he says he gets more scripts from the States than from England, since supposedly the industry over here won't even consider people of color for roles. I was also under the impression that British television was more diverse than that over here, since someone elsewhere on the forums said that the English don't talk as much about casting POC.

 

I don't think anyone has ever said that the American industry won't even consider people of color for roles (in a way that wasn't intentionally and obviously hyperbolic for emphasis anyway). The issue is that the playing field is not level, not only in terms of casting in general, but also in how PoC are cast. Hollywood is fine casting PoC in supporting roles or in projects that are somehow about the "minority struggle" (especially if there is a white protagonist) or in stereotypical roles or as comic relief. It's more difficult as a PoC to get starring roles, to get considered for roles that aren't specifically written for or by necessity minorities, and to be the center of projects that are considered universal stories of the so-called "everyman". Having said that, there are a few PoC actors that can get past that. There are always exceptions to rules. We'll see if Elba gets to become one of those exceptions by landing a lead starring role in a mainstream, big budget studio movie at some point.

 

As for the difference between American and British tv, I was kinda surprised by that too. I feel like the shows I've seen have been more willing to cast PoC in certain ways (like black females as love interests), but obviously my sample size is 1) very small and 2) only contains shows that have made it across the pond, so it's probably not representative of most British TV. Another factor could be that the American entertainment industry probably produces way more volume in general.

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Raja

Raja

Huh. Interesting that he says he gets more scripts from the States than from England, since supposedly the industry over here won't even consider people of color for roles. I was also under the impression that British television was more diverse than that over here, since someone elsewhere on the forums said that the English don't talk as much about casting POC.

Well a quick look at wiki suggest that by proportion the US has 10 times the Black population as the UK and about the same Asian percentage. However US Asians are less likely to be South Asian and able to pass for white or Latino like Bernard White playing Det. Molina in a Dragnet reboot back in the 90s and more likely to be East Asian

Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

It's more difficult as a PoC to get starring roles, to get considered for roles that aren't specifically written for or by necessity minorities, and to be the center of projects that are considered universal stories of the so-called "everyman". Having said that, there are a few PoC actors that can get past that. There are always exceptions to rules. We'll see if Elba gets to become one of those exceptions by landing a lead starring role in a mainstream, big budget studio movie at some point.

 

http://www.lawyerherald.com/articles/26642/20160112/dark-tower-officially-casts-idris-elba-roland-deschain-january-2017.htm

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Ms Blue Jay

Ms Blue Jay

(edited)

Idris is an incredibly exceptional man, though :)  Can you imagine if white actors were required to be as sexy as Idris to star in a project.  Hahahahhahaha.  I'm so excited to see where Idris's career goes from here.  I know that he's from The Wire, but Luther also is amazing of course and he had a great multi-episode on The Office (US) that I'm a huge fan of.

 

I'm really excited for Mike Colter to star in the Luke Cage series on Netflix!  I've been a fan of his from Ringer, The Good Wife, and now Jessica Jones!

 

Something that I really noticed about The Office (UK version) is that the casting people didn't seem to care about looks at all.  It sounds mean but the show had very average-looking people and the actors showed no vanity at all.  It looked like very real people in a very real office.  If makeup was even worn, it looked very poorly applied.  When The Office (US version) came out it was like they took the British cast and gave them all slight plastic surgery and photoshopping - everyone looked a lot more perfect.  It made me hate the US version for two seasons until I got used to it.  So maybe Britain casts 'diversely' in terms of attractiveness, but I'm not sure about race.  (Just my impression based on this one show!)  The difference between the two versions of The Office is staggering in this way in my opinion.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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Ms Blue Jay

Ms Blue Jay

(edited)

Well sure.  They look average to you because you are disregarding what I said, that I think that they look Hollywoodized relative to the UK version.  Jim, Pam, Michael, and Dwight are extremely Hollywoodized versions of Ricky Gervais and the UK team.  It's like all of the flaws of normal humans were ironed out.

 

Here's the UK Dwight for instance (scroll below).

 

And I think that Lucy Davis (who played UK Pam) is very attractive, but she was not thin.  Harsher viewers called her "fat".  And hopefully you know what Ricky Gervais might have looked like in 2001?  Jim/Dwight/Pam and Michael do not have any extra pounds on them whatsoever.  I have a lot of reasons for my opinion on this.  While UK Jim was a kind of a cute-ish nerd it might take you a few weeks to notice, Jim Halpert is like 6'3" and looked like a Homecoming King in comparison.

 

f0uxlurl1ej2ugefl8l5.jpeg David-Brent.jpg

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
Raja

Raja

(edited)

The MCU has ignored all real life racial attitudes from the introduction of an integrated 1942 US Army in Captain America The First Avenger and Andre Royo playing a hood/club owner in Agent Carter's first season who was about to have sex with a blond women without a peep. The only notice of race in the MCU has been first Dum Dum Dugan noticing that one of the Howling Commandos then prisoners of Hydra/Nazis was of Japanese ancestry in The First Avenger and then Director Fury making a crack about driving while black in The Winter Soldier.

Besides showing what was about to be interracial sex with no reaction from any character they also had Asian and black cops and government agents rolling around 1946 New York and Europe with no question of their authority.After ignoring the elephant it would be difficult to reintroduce it baring a high profile actor like Samuel L Jackson who can't be recast introducing it as an ablib

Looks like I was wrong. Halfway through the second episode of Agent Carter's second season is a soft MCU reboot and race mattered, somewhat Edited by Raja
Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

Well sure.  They look average to you because you are disregarding what I said, that I think that they look Hollywoodized relative to the UK version.  Jim, Pam, Michael, and Dwight are extremely Hollywoodized versions of Ricky Gervais and the UK team.  It's like all of the flaws of normal humans were ironed out.

 

Well, good Lord, if you're gonna start comparing people's looks to Ricky Gervais', that's not a very high bar to set. :-P

 

Coupling also made it across the pond, and while the American version of it sucked, I don't think there's an enormous amount of difference in attractiveness of the leads there as opposed to their English counterparts.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/staticarchive/82729589ff2a3388d65ab2525e5905e439849688.jpg

English

 

http://www.epguides.com/coupling_us/cast.jpg

American

 

Granted, Gina Bellman wrecks the curve in the Brits' favor, but all in all I'd say its about even.

Wax Lion

Wax Lion

Something that I really noticed about The Office (UK version) is that the casting people didn't seem to care about looks at all.  It sounds mean but the show had very average-looking people and the actors showed no vanity at all.  It looked like very real people in a very real office.

 

Two popular UK soaps Coronation Street and EastEnders have a similar sensibility. There's a few really good looking people but overall the cast looks like people you'd see in a regular neighborhood. I think UK broadcasters care less about fandoms popping up over an actors' looks. (OTOH, there's another UK soap, Hollyoaks, where the cast is very young -- it's focused has varied between a college and high school -- and plays up the sex like a US soap would, except that the older characters are allowed to look their age and the heavier characters aren't made into sidekicks for their thinner friends.)

 

As for Coupling, while I do find Jay Harrington and Colin Ferguson hot, they can't compare to Richard Coyle and Ben Miles for me.

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After7Only

After7Only

I'd reserve judgment until after I seen it.  it's just too hard to judge based off of a 30-second promo.   I see her point, but I also don't think that only a certain type of black family or black experience should only be shown on TV.   If what we want is diversity, we can't demand that it be only one type.  The premise of this show is the reality for many people (not just black people).  Why not depict those family dynamics in a sitcom?  Many will relate to it.  And those who don't, might learn that this family is not much different than their own.   

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Meredith Quill
Message added by Meredith Quill,

This is the place to discuss race and ethnicity issues related to TV shows only.

Go here for the equivalent movie discussions.

For general discussion without TV/Film context please use the Social Justice topic in Everything Else. 

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